GDB 45: Vincent Lecavalier

Jonathan Willis
January 18 2009 01:04PM

As we wait for the game against the Coyotes to begin, let’s consider two players over the past two seasons. Both are gritty, have good size, and are well-known and often mentioned as Top-10 players. Here are the numbers:

Player A

2008-09: 45GP – 28G – 21A – 59 PTS, +10

2007-08: 82GP – 40G – 66A – 106 PTS, -8

2006-07: 82GP – 56G – 54A – 100 PTS, +23

Player B

2008-09: 45GP – 15G – 22A – 37 PTS, +4

2007-08: 82GP – 41G – 44A – 85 PTS, -23

2006-07: 82GP – 49G – 57A – 106 PTS, -11

Player A is clearly superior to Player B. Outside of a slight difference in one season, he’s been a far better offensive performer, and his +/- totals are well ahead of Player B. Yet everybody, bizarrely enough, thinks that these two players are identical in ability, despite the fact that the statistics don’t support it at all.

The reason that everybody regards these two players as identical talents is because they are one player. Player A is Vincent Lecavalier, specifically his point totals against his own division, pro-rated over full seasons. Player B is Vincent Lecavalier against the rest of the NHL, pro-rated over an entire season.

I haven’t gotten into the effect of the various divisions on player performance, but it is something that we as Oilers fans should be wise to. We’ve seen the effect on Erik Cole, and it isn’t an illusion. The Southeast is the worst division in the NHL, by far, and it isn’t surprising that some of the league’s top goal- and point- scorers can be found there. It’s something that GM’s should keep in mind before making trades, at any rate.

It's something Oilers fans should keep in the back of their mind as they watch their team play the Coyotes and fantasize about what a new addition to the lineup could do to help the cause.

74b7cedc5d8bfbe88cf071309e98d2c3
Jonathan Willis is a freelance writer. He currently works for Oilers Nation, the Edmonton Journal and Bleacher Report. He's co-written three books and worked for myriad websites, including Grantland, ESPN, The Score, and Hockey Prospectus. He was previously the founder and managing editor of Copper & Blue.
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#251 Travis Dakin
January 18 2009, 08:44PM
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I wish that wall of hair Simmer rocks was our goalie.

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#252 Wanye Gretz
January 18 2009, 08:44PM
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deep oil wrote:

Travis Dakin wrote: I gotta get on face book. it only works if you have friends and people like me - i had over 3000 friends with a fake name and facebook DEACTIVATED my friend page- damm - had quite of few hotties that just graduated from high school wanting to friend me because of my hollywood and playboy mansion connections and anything goes at the palms LV

Wow. When the authorities question me about you I'll point them straight to that comment.

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#253 Hockey Gods
January 18 2009, 08:47PM
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Everytime I think I make myself sound like an a$$ I get to read stuff like this.

deep oil wrote:

it only works if you have friends and people like me - i had over 3000 friends with a fake name and facebook DEACTIVATED my friend page- damm - had quite of few hotties that just graduated from high school wanting to friend me because of my hollywood and playboy mansion connections and anything goes at the palms LV
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#254 David S
January 18 2009, 08:47PM
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Penner is starting to look alot like John Candy with that 'stache.

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#255 David S
January 18 2009, 08:48PM
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http://www.joelogon.com/images_temp/successoryinternet400.jpg

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#256 Wanye Gretz
January 18 2009, 08:51PM
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I love that pic.

http://www.oilersnation.com/2008/10/were-sick-today/

Flashes of the Old Stauffer there calling out Penner for not defending Hemsky.

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#257 bingofuel
January 18 2009, 08:54PM
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@ Travis Dakin: Some weird online application that allows people to constantly broadcast to others... it's all the rage with the kids.

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#258 Dropping Deuces
January 18 2009, 08:57PM
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Calgary is just starting they're October slide all over.

*DD praying to the hockey gods*

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#259 Hockey Gods
January 18 2009, 08:58PM
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Dropping Deuces wrote:

Calgary is just starting they’re October slide all over. *DD praying to the hockey gods*

Your prayers will answered.

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#260 Travis Dakin
January 18 2009, 08:58PM
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bingofuel wrote:

@ Travis Dakin: Some weird online application that allows people to constantly broadcast to others… it’s all the rage with the kids.

I've heard musings about this from some of the younguns at work.

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#261 Dropping Deuces
January 18 2009, 09:01PM
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@ Hockey Gods:

Amen brotha

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#262 Wanye Gretz
January 18 2009, 09:03PM
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This commentary is mind numbing.

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#263 Hockey Gods
January 18 2009, 09:05PM
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Yup brown is far worse than DeBrusk

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#264 Bruthah
January 18 2009, 09:05PM
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ok, who's the douche doing colour commentary?

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#265 Bruthah
January 18 2009, 09:06PM
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oh, brown...... well, then....... nevermind.

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#266 deep oil
January 18 2009, 09:07PM
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Hockey Gods wrote:

Everytime I think I make myself sound like an a$$ I get to read stuff like this. deep oil wrote: it only works if you have friends and people like me - i had over 3000 friends with a fake name and facebook DEACTIVATED my friend page- damm - had quite of few hotties that just graduated from high school wanting to friend me because of my hollywood and playboy mansion connections and anything goes at the palms LV

sorry guys but i took my wife to the LG poker event and had my photo taken with paris hilton, jose canseco (okay not a biggie), moneymaker, amorosa prior to the boob job, jessica simpsons father, numerous playboy bunnies that are just fluff looking for poker chips to sit with you.... but the best is haning with george maloof and the 20 cheerleaders from sacremento... in the hugh hefner sky villa for the carls jr premiere of the maloof brothers launch - trust me I am connected as I set up gregor and his friends with the playboy bunnies - should I pull in a favor and get maloof on just a game for you bloggers

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#267 deep oil
January 18 2009, 09:09PM
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Travis Dakin wrote:

bingofuel wrote: @ Travis Dakin: Some weird online application that allows people to constantly broadcast to others… it’s all the rage with the kids. I’ve heard musings about this from some of the younguns at work.

club penguin is way better for the younger folk - my friend sold it to disney for $300 million and $600 million in stock options - he is a major player in kelowna

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#268 Travis Dakin
January 18 2009, 09:09PM
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@ deep oil: connected how?

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#269 Amber
January 18 2009, 09:09PM
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"Great chances at both ends"

Teehee....hockey is dirty

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#270 chrisinbanff
January 18 2009, 09:10PM
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Hey ON, what colour commentators do we like? Cause from what i've read Rob Brown is worse than Louie Debrusk who is worse than Ray Ferraro who really really sucked. I just thank God we've never had to sit through Cole & Neale on a regular basis as Oilers fans. Or is making fun of the commentators another thing that's supposed to make us feel "vulnerable"?

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#271 Wanye Gretz
January 18 2009, 09:11PM
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deep oil wrote:

club penguin is way better for the younger folk - my friend sold it to disney for $300 million and $600 million in stock options - he is a major player in kelowna

Incorrect Sir.

http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/08/01/disney-acquires-club-penguin/

"The WSJ says the purchase price is $350 million in cash. Disney could pay up to another $350 million if certain performance targets are reached over the next couple of years, until 2009."

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#272 Travis Dakin
January 18 2009, 09:11PM
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chrisinbanff wrote:

who is worse than Ray Ferraro who really really sucked.

Kiss your mother with that mouth? Ferraro was money.

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#273 deep oil
January 18 2009, 09:12PM
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Travis Dakin wrote:

@ deep oil: connected how?

name a favor in vegas, hollywood and I can get access - start with LV - ghostbar, moon, nine steakhouse, - i will create a post next week to show you the JIMMY TIPTON naughty nighty party - unbelievable - but really everyone on this site thinks my calling out katz and other bankrupt owners are just my imagination - ooohhh and mandel is not supporting RX2 - he will just place a dummy stupid tax on airport car rentals, downtown hotel levy, restaurant service charge and give it all to northlands to run for katz - this is one merry go round

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#274 Hockey Gods
January 18 2009, 09:12PM
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@ chrisinbanff: I for one like Ferraro, I always thought Craig Simpson was good too.

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#275 Travis Dakin
January 18 2009, 09:13PM
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deep oil wrote:

Travis Dakin wrote: @ deep oil: connected how? name a favor in vegas, hollywood and I can get access - start with LV - ghostbar, moon, nine steakhouse, - i will create a post next week to show you the JIMMY TIPTON naughty nighty party - unbelievable - but really everyone on this site thinks my calling out katz and other bankrupt owners are just my imagination - ooohhh and mandel is not supporting RX2 - he will just place a dummy stupid tax on airport car rentals, downtown hotel levy, restaurant service charge and give it all to northlands to run for katz - this is one merry go round

I... I... wow.

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#276 deep oil
January 18 2009, 09:13PM
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@ Wanye Gretz:

i am talking canadian dollars - not usd

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#277 Hockey Gods
January 18 2009, 09:15PM
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deep oil wrote:

name a favor in vegas, hollywood and I can get access

K I am LA with buddies in Feb, hook me up sweet hotel cheap and get me in a luxary suite for the Oil v Kings game on the Feb14 game.

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#278 Jason Gregor
January 18 2009, 09:15PM
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Ender the Dragon wrote:

JW makes the case that it would be a poor trade for the Oil. CurtisS thinks it’s a no-brainer that the Oil do the trade in a second. I’m not sure what Gregor thinks; his answer is a bit ambiguous, but maybe he wasn’t aware there was a question.

I didn't know there was a question, but my answer is clear. If I'm starting a team, I take Lecavalier over Hemsky any day.

There is a reason why Lecavalier is making the money he will make and what Hemsky makes, he has earned it. Hemsky has never been an 80 point player. Take out the salary and I don't care what division they play in, I take Vinny hands down. Anyone who thinks Hemsky is better is wearing coloured glasses. Lecavalier plays in any situation, scores more goals, it tougher and has put up more points.

To say that a GM would take Hemsky over Vinny is only based on money. If the question is what player/salary would fit better on a team, that is different than who is flat out a better player. I asked 10 scouts at the game tonight, and 10 out of 10 agreed with me.

My other point Jonathon, you talk about tough and soft minutes. Well it seems that all 1st line players are considered tough minutes. But if a team has a checking line that doesn't score, wouldn't they be harder minutes to play against as on offensive player? Just curious.

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#279 Dropping Deuces
January 18 2009, 09:16PM
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Chris Cuthbert and Ray Ferraro is the best broadcast.

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#280 Colin
January 18 2009, 09:17PM
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so um...what's the score since it's on ppv

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#281 Travis Dakin
January 18 2009, 09:18PM
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4-3 Oil

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#282 Hockey Gods
January 18 2009, 09:18PM
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@ Colin: 4-3 Oil halfway through the 3rd

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#283 Jason Gregor
January 18 2009, 09:19PM
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Ender the Dragon wrote:

For the record, I’m with JW on this. Hemsky is the better player for the Oil. If Vinnie comes to Edmonton, then his offensive numbers drop, our goals against goes up, and his salary eats up any chance of bringing in any significant other support. And I don’t think the Oil are the only team who don’t make that trade, either.

What makes you believe his numbers go down? Vinny MAKES players around him better, which is the key to being a great player. Look at St.Louis' numbers before he came to Tampa, Richards since he has left Tampa and how Prospal's numbers are much better in Tampa than anywhere else.

You are basing your debate on salary, not the player.

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#284 Wanye Gretz
January 18 2009, 09:19PM
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deep oil wrote:

Travis Dakin wrote: @ deep oil: connected how? name a favor in vegas, hollywood and I can get access - start with LV - ghostbar, moon, nine steakhouse, - i will create a post next week to show you the JIMMY TIPTON naughty nighty party - unbelievable - but really everyone on this site thinks my calling out katz and other bankrupt owners are just my imagination - ooohhh and mandel is not supporting RX2 - he will just place a dummy stupid tax on airport car rentals, downtown hotel levy, restaurant service charge and give it all to northlands to run for katz - this is one merry go round

What a strange thing to say...

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#285 Dropping Deuces
January 18 2009, 09:19PM
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What ever became of Morley Scott. Did Phillips have him knocked off for always correcting him?

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#286 Dropping Deuces
January 18 2009, 09:20PM
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Dustin Penner meet your body twin in 10 years. Its Dave hunter.

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#287 Amber
January 18 2009, 09:20PM
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I think it's wrong that Dave Hunter wore an animal pelt on his head.

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#288 Wanye Gretz
January 18 2009, 09:20PM
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WOWOWOWOWO

SO CLOSE

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#289 Travis Dakin
January 18 2009, 09:21PM
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Wanye Gretz wrote:

What a strange thing to say…

Agreed.

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#290 Amber
January 18 2009, 09:22PM
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Travis Dakin wrote:

Wanye Gretz wrote: What a strange thing to say… Travis Dakin wrote: Agreed.

I concur

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#291 Wanye Gretz
January 18 2009, 09:23PM
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A team of the future with a franchise with no hope for a future... how ironic

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#292 Travis Dakin
January 18 2009, 09:23PM
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Amber wrote:

I think it’s wrong that Dave Hunter wore an animal pelt on his head.

HAHA what's worse? The Hunter rug or the Brown plugs? wait a minute...

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#293 deep oil
January 18 2009, 09:23PM
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Hockey Gods wrote:

deep oil wrote: name a favor in vegas, hollywood and I can get access K I am LA with buddies in Feb, hook me up sweet hotel cheap and get me in a luxary suite for the Oil v Kings game on the Feb14 game.

i am there too - i will buy drinks for your group as a favor to show you that I have a heart for oil fans on the road - where do you want to stay - roosevelt where the playboy parties are - search karma foundation and make sure all oiler nation go on the cruise this september...type in karma cruise - wow - I cant go on this due to my marriage - but it is better than the photos - the luxury suite is not the way to go - i suggest the buffet in the end zone - you can email me at deepoilnhl @ gmail.com - i will go to the wall for you with contacts - you foot the bill.... no problem - btw we are heading to phx on southwest later that night for a week of hockey, nba allstar fun at barcelonas and golf

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#294 Hockey Gods
January 18 2009, 09:25PM
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deep oil wrote:

you can email me at deepoilnhl @ gmail.com - i will go to the wall for you with contacts - you foot the bill…. no problem - btw we are heading to phx on southwest later that night for a week of hockey, nba allstar fun at barcelonas and golf

Whoa Whoa whoa, I wasn't asking to be your friend LOL

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#295 Wanye Gretz
January 18 2009, 09:27PM
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Hockey Gods wrote:

deep oil wrote: you can email me at deepoilnhl @ gmail.com - i will go to the wall for you with contacts - you foot the bill…. no problem - btw we are heading to phx on southwest later that night for a week of hockey, nba allstar fun at barcelonas and golf Whoa Whoa whoa, I wasn’t asking to be your friend LOL

There there, play nice everyone.

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#296 deep oil
January 18 2009, 09:27PM
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Dropping Deuces wrote:

What ever became of Morley Scott. Did Phillips have him knocked off for always correcting him?

morely is in the mix for 630 ched eskimo play by play with the retirement of hallsy in the next 5 years... gregor should inherit hallsy's gig - he is the broadcaster with a football show

deep oil knows that morley is on the payroll for the next two years courtesy of batman - holiday with oiler management ticket - not pleased that stauffer was brought it - unannounced - allan watt was pulling his hair out - ooooops sorry

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#297 R-DAWG
January 18 2009, 09:28PM
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I'm gonna get my color commentary license...I can talk retarded too. Deep oil would be a good one too...hehe

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#298 Bruthah
January 18 2009, 09:28PM
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Hockey Gods wrote:

@ chrisinbanff: I for one like Ferraro, I always thought Craig Simpson was good too.

x2

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#299 Travis Dakin
January 18 2009, 09:30PM
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All signs are pointing to a Moreau empty netter for the trick. Book it!

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#300 Bruthah
January 18 2009, 09:30PM
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Colin wrote:

so um…what’s the score since it’s on ppv

http://atdhe.net/live-tv.php?i=11453633

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