Vinny ain't is not coming to Edmonton

Jason Gregor
January 26 2009 03:06PM

Oiler fans can stop wondering if Vinny Lecavalier is coming to town, because after conversations I had today he won’t be suiting up for the Oilers, or any other team, anytime soon.

Yes, the Oilers did have some preliminary talks with the Lightning, and while I couldn’t get the exact names that came up, the package that Tampa needed to even start the conversation looked something like this:

  • Horcoff or Penner, because the Oilers would have to free up money to bring on #4 (interesting sidenote: If he had come here, would he get to wear #4?),
  • One of either Gagner or Cogliano,
  • One of the young puck moving D-men in Gilbert and Grebeshkov.

The Bolts are also looking at some young players that won’t cost anything, and from what I understand Jordan Eberle would have had to be part of the package, and then another young D-man. Which would lead me to believe it would have been one of Taylor Chorney, Jeff Petry or possibly Theo Peckham.

Once again, let me reiterate that I couldn’t get the exact names that were involved, but a combination including the aforementioned names would have been necessary. And the conversation was not a serious one, but rather a kicking of the tires type of chat to see what it would take to pry him out of Tampa Bay. The fact the talks happened leads me to believe that the Oilers are still very much interested in landing a bona fide first line player.

I was also told that as of today, Lecavalier is not on the market anymore because the Bolts have received many emails from season ticket holders claiming, “If you trade Lecavalier, I will cancel my seats.” I spoke with a lady in marketing and she said they have received over 1,500 complaints via phone and email since last Monday, and the calls are still coming in.

Lecavalier is huge in Tampa, and the ownership can’t afford to trade him. I don’t believe the Oilers would have acquired him if it meant giving up three NHLers, two prospects and a pick.

Money-wise, Tampa wouldn’t have saved any, but they would have added three players who could play today and two pretty high-end prospects to help them down the road.

Would you trade Horcoff, Cogliano, Gilbert, Eberle, Chorney and a pick? Or Penner, Gagner, Grebeshkov, Eberle, Peckham and a pick? Neither trade looks good, especially when you consider they would be taking on an $8 million contract for one player. His salary is what makes it a hard trade to make, but his overall package makes it hard not to seriously consider it.

It makes for an interesting debate, but you can be guaranteed that Lecavalier will not be a member of the Oilers this year, or any season down the road. Montreal had an offer on the table as well, but right now the Bolts are keeping Lecavalier.

If they change their mind before Jul. 1, they will ask him for a list of teams he wants to go to and then start negotiations with those teams, and according to a non-Oiler NHL executive he wants to stay in the East.

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One of Canada's most versatile sports personalities. Jason hosts The Jason Gregor Show, weekdays from 2 to 6 p.m., on TSN 1260, and he writes a column every Monday in the Edmonton Journal. You can follow him on Twitter at twitter.com/JasonGregor
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#1 Reggie
January 26 2009, 03:25PM
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Considering we would have to take on that salary for such a long time, there's no way they can be asking for 5 players in that kind of deal. That's an outrageous asking price.

If the ownership group is in such a financial crunch, my real question is ... would a dispersal draft require a team to pick up his overpriced contract or would it invalidate the contract ?

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#2 Travis Dakin
January 26 2009, 03:29PM
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First off, The Bolts are insane if they think that is what he is worth. Thornton was had for far less and I'd take him 1000 times over Lecavalier.

Second, Attn: Lowe, Katz, Tambellin- We the Fans in the Nation D'Oiler would surely love to have a Big name player added to this team but please do not turn us into the Lightning by having all of our cap space to one line. The team that you have assembled will be good if you just make a couple of minor personnel changes.

That is all.

Thanks Greggor.

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#3 bert
January 26 2009, 03:48PM
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what would you rather pay 7.5 for horcoff or 9.0 for vinnie. as for the rest of the warm bodies and picks thats what you give up for a top five nhler. the oilers would fleece the lightning if they could get them to take horcoff in return.

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#4 Terry
January 26 2009, 04:17PM
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A Big fat no from me. That is way too much to give. If Edmonton wants a bonafide star, they can try free agency in the summer, or a rental player for the playoff run.

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#5 Ender the Dragon
January 26 2009, 04:21PM
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Eight million eggs in one basket is just begging fate to take a hand in your club's season. If Cogliano gets hurt, you grit your teeth and soldier on. If Gilbert goes down, you call someone up and plug the hole. But if your $8M player goes down with a serious injury, there's no bailing on that sinking ship. You likely don't have enough depth in that scenario to plug that hole and at that point it's just about salvaging as many games as possible.

A very good team that loses it's marquis player may still make the playoffs, if only just (see: Minnisota Wild). An average team that loses it's marquis player is fishing for a good draft position.

If that was the deal (and logic dictates that it would have had to have been; why would the Bolts accept less?) then I am beyond relieved that it never went past tire-kicking.

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#6 Pokie Reddik
January 26 2009, 04:45PM
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bert wrote:

what would you rather pay 7.5 for horcoff or 9.0 for vinnie. as for the rest of the warm bodies and picks thats what you give up for a top five nhler. the oilers would fleece the lightning if they could get them to take horcoff in return.

Horcoffs contract, which was done this past summer is a result of Horc being a MacT type player, The Management will do what it can to save macT's job and not fire him. The Oilers have won 4 of the last 5 and it looks like MacT is here to stay, Vinny is not a MacT type player and there is no way he will come. On the other hand, watch for Reasoner to be back here soon with in the next couple of weeks, and he might only cost us Shcremp and a late draft pick.

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#7 shakey
January 26 2009, 04:52PM
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I'm with Travis and the rest that think this is too much for Vinny. We want a good team that can place higher than 8th and make a good playoff run but not at that price. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Vinny 28 yes old? That means his contract runs out just before he's 40 and has a no trade clause in it. He's good but he won't be that good for that long. I'm not even sure if you make a deal for 2 NHLers and a prospect for Vinny and that contract. That's a risk.

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#8 bert
January 26 2009, 04:58PM
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Ender the Dragon wrote:

Eight million eggs in one basket is just begging fate to take a hand in your club’s season. If Cogliano gets hurt, you grit your teeth and soldier on. If Gilbert goes down, you call someone up and plug the hole. But if your $8M player goes down with a serious injury, there’s no bailing on that sinking ship. You likely don’t have enough depth in that scenario to plug that hole and at that point it’s just about salvaging as many games as possible.
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#9 bert
January 26 2009, 05:00PM
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vinnie goes down you still have hemsky,souray,nilsson,etc.

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#10 bert
January 26 2009, 05:06PM
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tell that to messier yzerman modano shanahan tkachuk brodeur etc.@ shakey:

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#11 Chris
January 26 2009, 05:10PM
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This has always been an intellectual exercise... I don't think many people ever thought Vinny would leave Tampa; and if he did; that he would go anywhere but Montreal; and if he did; that the destination out of 28 other interested teams would be Edmonton; and if he did; that he would like it, and stay, and produce....

P.S. Players like Grebs, Cogs, Eberle, etc are easier to find and replace than players like LeCavlier.

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#12 Smokin' Ray
January 26 2009, 05:21PM
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Too damn steep of a price. But I am sure Ottawa is asking similar to this for Spezza.

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#13 shea
January 26 2009, 05:22PM
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What was the "ransom" the oil was to give up in this deal?

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#14 Ol goalie
January 26 2009, 05:28PM
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Well that's a big price tag: more than RB's Escalade.

In fact, I don't remember any individual player getting that much on the trade market for a long time. I suppose Lindros brought in more in his first trade, but only because Forsberg turned out to be so good, better than the "big E"

I think if you chose the following from Gregor's list, and got Eberle - a steal of a pick- out of there, it's not so bad:

Penner (overpaid), Cogliano (undersized), Greb. (pending RFA), Chorney (sucking it up in the AHL), and a first (instead of Eberle)

That's 3 players a prospect and a first. That's more than players like this are supposed to fetch, but the Oilers could do it given how many young players they have.

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#15 shea
January 26 2009, 05:31PM
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What good would Spezza do here? Mac T would eat him alive. Besides, we already have a guy like that by the name of Hemmer. We need a shooter and thats it.@ Smokin' Ray:

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#16 Smokin' Ray
January 26 2009, 05:33PM
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@Ol Goalie:

I like the deal (Penner, Cogs, Grebs, Chorney and a 1st)

Best one yet. For us.

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#17 Pokie Reddik
January 26 2009, 05:38PM
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shea wrote:

What good would Spezza do here? Mac T would eat him alive. Besides, we already have a guy like that by the name of Hemmer. We need a shooter and thats it.@ Smokin’ Ray:

Spezza is a shooter, but he won't cost that much, I would let Horcoff and Moreau go but they wouldn't take Moreau, Eberle would be too high

Trade :

Horcoff, Schremp,Chorney and 2nd round

for : Spezza and 4th round 2009 and 3rd round in 2010

fair deal for both.

Murray wants Gilbert or Greb. Oilers want to rid of Horc's contract to make it happen. Maybe a multiplayer deal .

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#18 Chris
January 26 2009, 05:44PM
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Smokin' Ray wrote:

Too damn steep of a price. But I am sure Ottawa is asking similar to this for Spezza.

Spezza is no LeCavlier. My gut tells me Spezza would likely be a big disappointment in Edmonton. I know I'll get crucified for saying this but I like Cole over Spezza... and look at how much trouble Cole has had.

*Trembling in fear at the coming onslaught of Spezza stats heavily slanted by his playing time with Heatley and Alfredsson*

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#19 Smokin' Ray
January 26 2009, 05:44PM
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@ shea:

I didn't say that.

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#20 mjsh
January 26 2009, 05:55PM
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I Chris wrote:

Smokin’ Ray wrote: Too damn steep of a price. But I am sure Ottawa is asking similar to this for Spezza. Spezza is no LeCavlier. My gut tells me Spezza would likely be a big disappointment in Edmonton. I know I’ll get crucified for saying this but I like Cole over Spezza… and look at how much trouble Cole has had. *Trembling in fear at the coming onslaught of Spezza stats heavily slanted by his playing time with Heatley and Alfredsson*

I agree. Spezza is not the type of player we want here. The only name out there that I like is Kovalchuck and I would not give up Horcoff for him. I was listening to Gregor in my truck on the way home and he was talking about not having a "face" of the franchise since maybe Ryan Smith. While Hemsky is the star, to me Horcoff is the face I want for the Oilers. He is not getting the points but he has been the most important Oiler this year. With no true defensive faceoff guy, Horcoff has been overworked by Mac T.

It has always been that the team who gets the best player wins the trade. So if Penner, one of Gilbert, Grebs, Gagne or Cogs plus a draft choice is the cost of a big name, I saw go for it.!!!

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#21 Jack "slacking off at work" Bauer
January 26 2009, 06:43PM
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Pokie Reddik wrote:

shea wrote: What good would Spezza do here? Mac T would eat him alive. Besides, we already have a guy like that by the name of Hemmer. We need a shooter and thats it.@ Smokin’ Ray: Spezza is a shooter, but he won’t cost that much, I would let Horcoff and Moreau go but they wouldn’t take Moreau, Eberle would be too high Trade : Horcoff, Schremp,Chorney and 2nd round for : Spezza and 4th round 2009 and 3rd round in 2010 fair deal for both. Murray wants Gilbert or Greb. Oilers want to rid of Horc’s contract to make it happen. Maybe a multiplayer deal .

So an overpaid player with 2 failures of prospects and a couple of shît draft picks for Spezza? Sounds like the typical Oilers fan's trade. Our junk for thier best.

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#22 Rick
January 26 2009, 06:52PM
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I don't know what makes the Tampa ownership look more stupid, trading their franchise player through their own volition or not trading him because their fans are telling them not to.

What the hell are they paying a GM for? They are running their club like they're on Wheel of Fortune down there.

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#23 Jason Gregor
January 26 2009, 07:01PM
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mjsh wrote:

I was listening to Gregor in my truck on the way home and he was talking about not having a “face” of the franchise since maybe Ryan Smith. While Hemsky is the star, to me Horcoff is the face I want for the Oilers. He is not getting the points but he has been the most important Oiler this year. With no true defensive faceoff guy, Horcoff has been overworked by Mac T.

First off, good work on listening in..haha.

You might like Horcoff, but he is far from what I would term face of the franchise.(Literally and figuratively). In Tampa Bay Lecavalier is adored by the fans, here in Edmonton Horcoff is 50/50 at best.

If he is the face of your team, then the team isn't that good. His work ethic is second to none, but the closest thing the Oilers have to a franchise player is Hemsky. He is getting closer all the time, but what I meant by a face-of-the-franchise player is someone that when you say that team you think of that player.

Washington...Ovechkin. Colorado...Sakic Calgary...Iginla Columbus...Nash

The Oilers don't have that right now, and I don't see Horcoff ever being that guy. There are many teams who don't, so it isn't a necessity, but a face-of-the-franchise player is normally adored by the vast majority of their fan base.

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#24 Jason Gregor
January 26 2009, 07:02PM
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Rick wrote:

What the hell are they paying a GM for? They are running their club like they’re on Wheel of Fortune down there.

Lawton has no clue. He had 17 forwards on way-one contracts at the start of the year. That team is in major trouble.

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#25 MikeP
January 26 2009, 07:02PM
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Travis Dakin wrote:

First off, The Bolts are insane if they think that is what he is worth. Thornton was had for far less and I’d take him 1000 times over Lecavalier.

Could be they don't think he's really worth that much, but they're setting the bar high in case they get it.

I used to sell computers and if the fellow asking the price looked like he had a sense of humour, I'd say a million dollars. Inevitably, the response would be "You're not going to sell too many at that price," and my inevitable counter, "I don't need to."

Point is, if Tambellini (or anybody else) is stupid enough to cough up those kinds of players for Lecavalier, I'm sure Lawton would take him up on it - season ticket holders or no ticket holders. And the holders would return.

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#26 ned flanders
January 26 2009, 07:30PM
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You simply can't ask for 5 assets for that contract. 11 year contract. Say 4 good years of play, 2 lost to injury and slowing up, slacking and overpaid after age 34. How many years did Yashin go before he got bought out? That contract brings a reasonable price to something like Penner, Gilbert, Schremp and a 2nd.

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#27 mjsh
January 26 2009, 08:21PM
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Jason Gregor wrote:

mjsh wrote: I was listening to Gregor in my truck on the way home and he was talking about not having a “face” of the franchise since maybe Ryan Smith. While Hemsky is the star, to me Horcoff is the face I want for the Oilers. He is not getting the points but he has been the most important Oiler this year. With no true defensive faceoff guy, Horcoff has been overworked by Mac T. First off, good work on listening in..haha. You might like Horcoff, but he is far from what I would term face of the franchise.(Literally and figuratively). In Tampa Bay Lecavalier is adored by the fans, here in Edmonton Horcoff is 50/50 at best. If he is the face of your team, then the team isn’t that good. His work ethic is second to none, but the closest thing the Oilers have to a franchise player is Hemsky. He is getting closer all the time, but what I meant by a face-of-the-franchise player is someone that when you say that team you think of that player. Washington…Ovechkin. Colorado…Sakic Calgary…Iginla Columbus…Nash The Oilers don’t have that right now, and I don’t see Horcoff ever being that guy. There are many teams who don’t, so it isn’t a necessity, but a face-of-the-franchise player is normally adored by the vast majority of their fan base.

Who said that the Oilers were that good. LOL.

Anyway, I enjoy the show. Great work.

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#28 mjsh
January 26 2009, 08:26PM
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And I like work ethic, that is why I like Horcoff. Hemmer has been too inconsistant to be the face of the franchise. That might well be changing based upon his last two games. I certainly hope so because he was incredible against Phoenix and Columbus. Part Gretz and part Anderson in those two games. With him doing some shooting now, he may well have found the next level that we have been hoping for.

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#29 TV
January 26 2009, 09:00PM
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Pokie Reddik wrote:

Horcoffs contract, which was done this past summer is a result of Horc being a MacT type player, The Management will do what it can to save macT’s job and not fire him. The Oilers have won 4 of the last 5 and it looks like MacT is here to stay, Vinny is not a MacT type player and there is no way he will come. On the other hand, watch for Reasoner to be back here soon with in the next couple of weeks, and he might only cost us Shcremp and a late draft pick.

So the reason that a high-end player won't come to River City is because of MacT..? Seriously?

If the Oil's Brass is so hell bent on "saving" the MacT's gig, then why did they let the Sparrow walk as a cheap $$$ UFA alternative bottom 6 forward in the 1st place? Especially after when MacT stated he wanted Reasoner back in the fold for the 09' season..?

Marty's game has been "below average" at best this season for the Birds. I'm quite sure they all see & know this as well. The Sparrow is no longer an Oiler for a reason, & he's not leaving that nest to join the Oilers for a 1st rounder & another pick. If that ever came to pass, then it's house cleaning time for sure...!!!

x6

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#30 Travis Dakin
January 26 2009, 09:10PM
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@ TV:

See, now that I agree with ;)

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#31 oilmoose
January 26 2009, 10:08PM
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Time to wait and see. Lots will shake loose between now and the trading deadline. Prices and values will only depreciate as time goes by. The haves vs. the have nots are only going to benefit with time. Time is on our side.

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#32 douggy
January 26 2009, 10:22PM
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im glad the oilers didn't make that deal! my respect level is starting to go up for the guys in the office, but i still think they need changes! anyways, good on the oil. Hemsky is god!

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#33 douggy
January 26 2009, 10:31PM
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p.s. does anyone know the full details of smyttys contract in colorado? is there a ntc?

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#34 TV
January 27 2009, 01:22AM
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douggy wrote:

does anyone know the full details of smyttys contract in colorado? is there a ntc?

#94 makes $7.5/08' - $7.25/09' - $6.5/10' - $5.5/11' - $4.5/12' - UFA/13'

Cap Hit = $6,250,000 per season

x6

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#35 TV
January 27 2009, 01:27AM
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douggy wrote: does anyone know the full details of smyttys contract in colorado? is there a ntc?

#94 makes $7.5/08? - $7.25/09? - $6.5/10? - $5.5/11? - $4.5/12? - UFA/13?

Cap Hit = $6,250,000 per season Ryan Smyth - NMC

x6

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#36 mwhite.dking@nf.sympatico.ca
January 27 2009, 08:52AM
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It would be nice to be rid of Penner and it is Lawton's job to ask for the moon.

But it's also the job of other GM's to prove that's not where they were born;)

I can't see many people coming as close to supporing that package as Gregor just did.

It's not like you're getting Oveckin in return.

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#37 Ender the Dragon
January 27 2009, 08:57AM
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TV wrote:

Marty’s game has been “below average” at best this season for the Birds.

Are you kidding me? Have you even looked? On an absolutely brutal Thrashers team, Marty is on pace to equal his 25 points with the Oil last year. He's a +2 on the year and has a 58.6 FO% over the past 5 games. This is your idea of a 'below average' 4th-line center? For Pete's sake, who do you want down there? That's better than any of the fourth-line centres on our arguably much better team. Check out their numbers if you don't believe me.

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#38 Jason Gregor
January 27 2009, 09:07AM
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mwhite.dking@nf.sympatico.ca wrote:

I can’t see many people coming as close to supporing that package as Gregor just did. It’s not like you’re getting Oveckin in return.

I never supported the package, I reported what they were looking for. I wouldn't do the first one, but if it was Penner, Gagner, Grebeshkov, Chorney and a 1st I would...If they wouldn't have to part with Eberle I would make that trade.

Sure it is a risk, but every trade is. Lecavalier is as good as Penner and Gagner combined. Chorney is really struggling now and he won't be here for a few years, while Grebeshkov's contract demands will probably be at least $3.2/season.

Now the trade will never happen and #4 won't be an Oiler but I would make that trade.

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#39 rindog
January 27 2009, 09:07AM
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@ Chris:

So I am assuming that you don't think Hemsky is a comaparible player to Heatley or Alfredsson?

The whole point of us getting a top line player is to compliment Hemsky.

One can only imagine the numbers #83 would put up if were playing with a god offensive centerman???

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#40 rindog
January 27 2009, 09:12AM
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@ mjsh:

Hemsky has 242 points in 255 games since the lockout???

You call that inconsistant?

You need to also keep in mind that those points were put up while playing with some average (at best) linemates and only getting 15 minutes per game on a lot of nights.

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#41 Travis Dakin
January 27 2009, 09:12AM
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rindog wrote:

One can only imagine the numbers #83 would put up if were playing with a god offensive centerman???

Or a goal scoring left winger *cough Kovalchuk cough*

excuse me.

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#42 Travis Dakin
January 27 2009, 09:13AM
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Travis Dakin wrote:

playing with a god offensive centerman???

Gretzky? Yeah imagine that.

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#43 rindog
January 27 2009, 09:15AM
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@ Jason Gregor:

It's the same thing that was said before about Ryan Smyth..

If Smytty (or Horcoff) is the face of your franchise....you're not a very good team!!!

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#44 mwhite.dking@nf.sympatico.ca
January 27 2009, 09:39AM
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Jason: I said you came Close to supporting that trade. There's a difference in that and saying you were 100% behind it.

But let's say you get what you want and those players are the ones out the door. Are you ready to give up on 18 and 24 and stash their salaries in the minors?

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#45 Chris
January 27 2009, 10:24AM
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rindog wrote:

@ Chris: So I am assuming that you don’t think Hemsky is a comaparible player to Heatley or Alfredsson? The whole point of us getting a top line player is to compliment Hemsky. One can only imagine the numbers #83 would put up if were playing with a god offensive centerman???

I'm saying Spezza is not comparable to LeCavlier. Spezza, like Horcoff and Penner, would see his numbers drastically drop off with Hemmer out. LeCavlier would be capable of generating some offence all on his own... LeCavlier is a next level player.... Spezza is not.

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#46 rindog
January 27 2009, 11:33AM
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@ Chris: Chris wrote:

*Trembling in fear at the coming onslaught of Spezza stats heavily slanted by his playing time with Heatley and Alfredsson*

Lecavalier has played with the likes of St.Louis and Richards as well.

Did you know that since the lockout:

Spezza has played 245 games and has 306 points (1.24ppga).

Lecavalier has played 290 games and has 319 points (1.10ppga).

Chris wrote:

Spezza, like Horcoff and Penner, would see his numbers drastically drop off with Hemmer out. LeCavlier would be capable of generating some offence all on his own

What makes you think this?

I am not even saying that Lecavalier isn't a better hockey player. But considering the post lockout production, the fact that Spezza is 3 years younger and 700K cheaper per year, and that Spezza'a contract is up way before Vinnie's is.....The fact that you think there is such a difference between the two players is a bit puzzling??

Avatar
#47 TV
January 27 2009, 02:03PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Ender the Dragon wrote:

TV wrote: Marty’s game has been “below average” at best this season for the Birds. Are you kidding me? Have you even looked? On an absolutely brutal Thrashers team, Marty is on pace to equal his 25 points with the Oil last year. He’s a +2 on the year and has a 58.6 FO% over the past 5 games. This is your idea of a ‘below average’ 4th-line center? For Pete’s sake, who do you want down there? That’s better than any of the fourth-line centres on our arguably much better team. Check out their numbers if you don’t believe me.

Oh, I've looked, too many times for my own good actually. (& I'm talking actual Hotlanta games, not just stats)

You can harp on his stats till your blue in the face, but it still won't give Marty his youth back. He's been 2 steps behind all season long & simply does not get the job done 5on5 at all.

Not that it happens much, but when the Birds are up 1 with a minute to play, where is Marty? He's been stapled to the pine on many occasions instead of taking the big draw & shutting down the opposing teams best players when the game is on the line. (on a arguably inferior team with less depth than the Oil)

He's a great guy, but his time has passed, especially as an Oiler IMO...

x6

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