Post Game - Oilers vs. Avs

Jonathan Willis
October 27 2009 11:16PM

Colorado Avalanche: 3

Edmonton Oilers: 0

Not much to say about this one. It was a lousy hockey game, and the score is a fair indication of both who carried the play and exactly how boring it was.  There wasn't a player on the team who had a good game, save perhaps Khabibulin.  We can chalk it up to the flu (everybody's sick, and Ladislav Smid has swine flu) or we can chalk it up to percentages normalizing (since I said the Oilers were bound to drop from their 15.2% rate they've fallen down to 12.3%) or we can chalk it up to outshooting the opposition a grand total of one time on the season, but this team doesn't look good right now.

The same things apply now that applied prior to this streak of three losses to division opponents: it's early, it's only a few games, and it isn't worth panicking about. 

Also possibly of interest - while Dan Tencer suggests the powerplay is the problem, I thought it looked good tonight, even if it didn't score.  But when the Oilers have gone three games without an even-strength goal, and two without a goal period, I think it's a bit much to blame special teams. 

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Jonathan Willis is a freelance writer. He currently works for Oilers Nation, Sportsnet, the Edmonton Journal and Bleacher Report. He's co-written three books and worked for myriad websites, including Grantland, ESPN, The Score, and Hockey Prospectus. He was previously the founder and managing editor of Copper & Blue.
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#102 Heatly
October 28 2009, 11:44AM
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Maybe bring back the kid line. We better make some line changes soon if we don't score tomorrow night.

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#103 offside
October 28 2009, 11:46AM
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How many passes did the Oilers complete last night? The last few games I don't think I've seen too many completed passes.

Colorado seemed aggressive on the puck while the Oilers just sat back, let's just blame the flu for now.

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#105 Hatecoff
October 28 2009, 11:50AM
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Jonathan Willis wrote:

@Hatecoff:

he is -7 with 2 points in 12 games................on pace for almost 15 points this year.....................

Meanwhile, Vincent Lecavalier is on pace for 9 goals. That won't continue; anyone with anything resembling common sense knows that, and it's the same here.

im a interacting....................im seeking answers from fellow citizens on whats wrong? why? for how long do we put up with this horseshiet of a hockey player ?

For as long as the Oilers have him, in my opinion. I've refused support for individual players on occasion - Bryan Marchment and Jesse Boulerice - because their on-ice actions have displayed a willingness to go beyond the game and attempt to seriously injure their opponents with illegal plays. But aside from that one exception, I think most fans cheer for the crest on front not the name on the back.

i wouldnt call it Hate

Yes you would. Your name is 'hate'coff. What do you think that means you're calling it?

all my comments are based on fact that Horcoff cant outperform Stone.

Horcoff: four NHL seasons with more than 50 points Stone: zero AHL seasons with more than 50 points

i dont care about other teams or players in the poor league that is called NHL......................they sort out their own garbage if the want

i cheer for the logo and horcoffs play is disrespecting it

i said i wouldnt understtod

we can continue this stone argument when he has been in the league as much as horcoff with some players whiffcoff has played with

wasnt it you who said that this is a what have u doen for me lately business?

what has whiffcoff done laltely ?

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#106 Hemmercules
October 28 2009, 11:50AM
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Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach wrote:

You know if I was a season ticket holder I would boo whoever I want already. Thes so-called vets of the team are playing the same type of hockey for years already and aren't listening to their coaches. Now I'm not picking on Horcoff in particular, but some guys just seem to think what they have been doing for the past 3-4 years is okay, but it isn't.

I really think that if Quinn can't get these guys out of their rut that we have no choice to make an example of one of the vets and trade one. Seems to be too many guys playing like they know they won't lose their job.

With all that said, I still think the Flu and injuries is a big reason for some of the lackluster play.

I take it you are talking about Hemmer and Moreau since they are really the only vets we have playing right now.

I agree that Hemmer need some fire in his eye and needs to step up carry us once and a while.

I won't crap on Horc yet, he's playing hard and nothing seems to be going right for him right now. I had a feeling that contract would hurt him a bit.

As for Moreau, I'm not huge fan of him but a fourth line grinder playing 10 to 13 minutes a night isn't whats losing us games right now. He definately needs to be more physical though, thats pretty much all he has going for himself right now. He should never be the guy carrying the puck into the oppostion zone though, thats Cog's job. Moreau should be crashing the net hard at all times and let Stortini do the corner battles.

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#107 Hatecoff
October 28 2009, 11:52AM
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sorry for the spelling and that one sentence that is out of place

i just spilled coffee all over my bagel

back to timmy's

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#108 Hemmercules
October 28 2009, 11:56AM
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@Hatecoff

"i cheer for the logo and horcoffs play is disrespecting it"

Wow......just.....wow. I'm 100% certain that Horc isn't direpecting the oilers one bit and never has, players have slumps. You Mr Hater are the only one direpecting the oilers with those weak, thoughtless commnets. Good day sir.

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#109 Hemmercules
October 28 2009, 11:59AM
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wow, can I get an "S" bingo fuel?? I obviously forgot how to use it.

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#110 mowgli
October 28 2009, 11:59AM
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Hemmercules wrote:

Another thing is Sully on the PP. Get that guy outta there. Can't hit the net with a one timer to save his life, can't make a 10 foot pass on the tape, can't hold the zone. How many chances does he get playing the point so terribly???

A Smidless D line scares me right now. Strudwick, Chorney, Peckham looks pretty scary compared to Souray, Smid and Staios. Gilbert and Grebs can't handle all the tough minutes and Lubo can only play 30 minutes a night for so long. Ugh.....wake me when its over.

your right G & G can only do a few minutes with out trun overs thats why when Souray and staios are back our woest line would be them and that not to bad. You would think with three couches the power play would change for the better. it has'nt impreesesd me the last three games. Three 5on3's and one goals come on.

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#111 mowgli
October 28 2009, 12:06PM
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Horc is playing hard but not smart like he'll skate his a*s off back on his turn overs but, won't skate hard and ceate a trun overs him-self.

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#112 Chris.
October 28 2009, 12:09PM
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@Hatecoff

You're new here. I've seen posters like you come and go... Austin Alaya anyone..?.. I'm sure you have lots to add to the discussion: just dial back venom a bit... okay? Horcoff has been good performer for this team in the past. Consequently, Lowe rewarded Horcoff with a huge contract extension a year before his existing contract had expired. Since then, the economic landscape has changed and the contract is probably higher than what Horcoff would have commanded as a free agent. How is that Horcoff's fault?

I don't know why Horcoff is struggling. It could be the pressure of trying to live up to the big new contract. It could be his bad foot. It could be that Quinn's system while positively beneifiting Penner's game is negatively affecting Horcoffs game. It could be that Horcoff is having trouble mentally shifting his focus to think offence with all the draws and defensive situations he plays... I don't know the answer... But when a proven performer loses form, the answer as to why is usually more complicated than saying the player is just plain sucky. That's just dumb.

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#113 Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach
October 28 2009, 12:13PM
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Hemmercules wrote:

I take it you are talking about Hemmer and Moreau since they are really the only vets we have playing right now.

I agree that Hemmer need some fire in his eye and needs to step up carry us once and a while.

I won't crap on Horc yet, he's playing hard and nothing seems to be going right for him right now. I had a feeling that contract would hurt him a bit.

As for Moreau, I'm not huge fan of him but a fourth line grinder playing 10 to 13 minutes a night isn't whats losing us games right now. He definately needs to be more physical though, thats pretty much all he has going for himself right now. He should never be the guy carrying the puck into the oppostion zone though, thats Cog's job. Moreau should be crashing the net hard at all times and let Stortini do the corner battles.

I don't really like Moreau, but I have to say that I didn't mind what he brought yesterday.

As for Vets Horcoff, Moreau, Hemmer, Staios(who I wasn't impressed with when in, but I respect what he brings at times) and Strudwick are guys that seem to be having problems learning from their mistakes.

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#114 Hemmercules
October 28 2009, 12:14PM
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@Chris.

Nicely put Chris.

Hey JW, is Horcoff minus 6 because of the PK or is he getting killed at even strength????

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#115 Ogden Brother
October 28 2009, 12:14PM
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Chris. wrote:

You're new here. I've seen posters like you come and go... Austin Alaya anyone..?.. I'm sure you have lots to add to the discussion: just dial back venom a bit... okay? Horcoff has been good performer for this team in the past. Consequently, Lowe rewarded Horcoff with a huge contract extension a year before his existing contract had expired. Since then, the economic landscape has changed and the contract is probably higher than what Horcoff would have commanded as a free agent. How is that Horcoff's fault?

I don't know why Horcoff is struggling. It could be the pressure of trying to live up to the big new contract. It could be his bad foot. It could be that Quinn's system while positively beneifiting Penner's game is negatively affecting Horcoffs game. It could be that Horcoff is having trouble mentally shifting his focus to think offence with all the draws and defensive situations he plays... I don't know the answer... But when a proven performer loses form, the answer as to why is usually more complicated than saying the player is just plain sucky. That's just dumb.

I doubt this is what has happend but: It could be that he just doesn't have it anymore. I guess we'll find out over the next 15 - 20 games.

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#116 Librarian Mike
October 28 2009, 12:21PM
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Hemmercules wrote:

Nicely put Chris.

Hey JW, is Horcoff minus 6 because of the PK or is he getting killed at even strength????

I don't think +/- applies with PK or PP, so even strength it is.

I know (from reading Jonathan's stuff) that Horcoff takes a LOT of faceoffs, particularly in the defensive zone. Consequently, he's on the ice for another team's scoring chance at least 45% of the time.

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#119 Morgan
October 28 2009, 12:26PM
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toprightcorner wrote:

I bet when your at work having a tough day and everything you do goes wrong and your boss and coworkers start booing at you everytime you do something, that makes you feel guilty, work harder and start producing.

Boo the team, fine...........boo individuals on other teams, questionable.........boo individuals on your own team, inexusable that doesn't deserve to be called a fan.

Pay me 7 million a year......then boo me all you want>It won't hurt my feelings.

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#120 Librarian Mike
October 28 2009, 12:27PM
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@Jonathan Willis

I had no idea. Thanks for the info!

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#121 Chris.
October 28 2009, 12:27PM
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Librarian Mike wrote:

I don't think +/- applies with PK or PP, so even strength it is.

I know (from reading Jonathan's stuff) that Horcoff takes a LOT of faceoffs, particularly in the defensive zone. Consequently, he's on the ice for another team's scoring chance at least 45% of the time.

Horcoff has taken a league leading 259 draws in only 12 games. The workload is astonishing.

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#122 Hemmercules
October 28 2009, 12:28PM
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@Librarian Mike

Thanks, I never payed much attention to +/-.

It would be interesting to see another good faceoff guy on this team. Take the load off a bit. Horc even said once that having to take the draw and get off the ice so many times takes it toll. Being constantly put in defensive situations doesn't exactly breed offence either. Hope Horc can get some confidence soon, he looked lost on that 3 on 1 last night.

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#125 Librarian Mike
October 28 2009, 12:34PM
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@Hemmercules

As much as he clearly didn't want to be here, Michael Peca was really good on faceoffs. Between him, Horcoff, and Jarret Stoll, our team was at the very least top-3 on the dot.

I think given time and experience, Gagner/Cogliano could become solid faceoff guys, but there's a real dropoff after #10.

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#126 Word
October 28 2009, 12:36PM
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Chris. wrote:

saucy young lady.

Saucy underage lady. Careful now.

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#127 Chris.
October 28 2009, 12:37PM
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@Jonathan Willis

I have to be reading the NHL stats page wrong... has Horcoff really taken 259 draws in only 12 games? That's 22 draws per game. Ridiculous. Horcoffs hands, back, and surgically repaired shoulder are probably in agony... ~maybe we should demand he scores fifty as well.~

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#128 Chris.
October 28 2009, 12:38PM
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Word wrote:

Saucy underage lady. Careful now.

I didn't notice her face... my bad.

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#129 Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach
October 28 2009, 12:42PM
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Chris. wrote:

I have to be reading the NHL stats page wrong... has Horcoff really taken 259 draws in only 12 games? That's 22 draws per game. Ridiculous. Horcoffs hands, back, and surgically repaired shoulder are probably in agony... ~maybe we should demand he scores fifty as well.~

Pretty sure he took that much, but that really doesn't mean much if he can't keep up his play in other areas of the game.

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#130 Librarian Mike
October 28 2009, 12:44PM
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@Chris.

~maybe we should demand he scores fifty as well.~

~Schremp could get 50 and take 300 draws...~

When Rob Schremp was in the alps,

Fighting grizzly bears,

He used his magical fire breath,

And saved the maidens fair.

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#131 TonyT
October 28 2009, 12:45PM
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@Jonathan Willis

This is a repeat post of #12, but I am interested in your thoughts. With Pisani's imminent return, do you see value in creating dedicated lines? For instance: Penner-Gagner-Hemsky (scoring 1) Comrie-Cogliano-O'Sullivan (scoring 2) Moreau-Horcoff-Pisani (Checking) Stortini-Brule-Jacques (Energy). Also, with players coming back from IR, how long before we see some roster changes?

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#132 Archaeologuy
October 28 2009, 12:49PM
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@Chris.

He doesnt have to score 50, but he needs to do a heck of a lot more than take faceoffs or the Oilers would be better served with a faceoff specialist 3rd liner.

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#133 Word
October 28 2009, 12:49PM
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Chris. wrote:

I have to be reading the NHL stats page wrong... has Horcoff really taken 259 draws in only 12 games? That's 22 draws per game. Ridiculous. Horcoffs hands, back, and surgically repaired shoulder are probably in agony... ~maybe we should demand he scores fifty as well.~

If I could trade 5 faceoff wins per game (which is about what Horc's overcompensating amounts to) for him being the 0.8 PPG player some people still unbelievably think he is, I would make that trade in a second, and I bet Pat Quinn would too.

Horcoff is what he is. A great third line center. Forget the salary, it happened. I say abuse the sh1t our of his faceoff ability and make him a defensive grinder.

If you pay $7 million for a horse that turns out to be a donkey, you don't keep entering it in races. You take your losses and try to make it the best damn donkey you can.

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#134 Word
October 28 2009, 12:49PM
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Chris. wrote:

I have to be reading the NHL stats page wrong... has Horcoff really taken 259 draws in only 12 games? That's 22 draws per game. Ridiculous. Horcoffs hands, back, and surgically repaired shoulder are probably in agony... ~maybe we should demand he scores fifty as well.~

If I could trade 5 faceoff wins per game (which is about what Horc's overcompensating amounts to) for him being the 0.8 PPG player some people still unbelievably think he is, I would make that trade in a second, and I bet Pat Quinn would too.

Horcoff is what he is. A great third line center. Forget the salary, it happened. I say abuse the sh1t our of his faceoff ability and make him a defensive grinder.

If you pay $7 million for a horse that turns out to be a donkey, you don't keep entering it in races. You take your losses and try to make it the best damn donkey you can.

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#135 Chris.
October 28 2009, 12:56PM
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I'm not arguing contract value. I'm not commenting on how Quinn uses his centers.I'm not giving Horcoff a pass on his overall game in its current state... I'm simply saying that it is an astonishing physical feat to take 259 draws in only 12 games. Who out there has taken numerous draws at a competative level.?..

My understanding is that it is exhausting.

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#136 Chris.
October 28 2009, 01:05PM
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Archaeologuy wrote:

He doesnt have to score 50, but he needs to do a heck of a lot more than take faceoffs or the Oilers would be better served with a faceoff specialist 3rd liner.

I agree. I sure hope Horcoff rebounds soon. Swine flu shouldn't be used as an excuse for overall poor team performance this week... but it has to be a contributing factor. In much the same way, taking so many draws may be a reason or contributing factor for Horcoffs decreased offensive production... Unfortunately, I don't see a clear reason for Horcoffs continued struggles with the puck and his poor overall timing. Last season, I figured he was struggling coming back from the shoulder surgery... Now I'm starting to wonder if he will ever get it back. Doesn't mean I'm going to berrate the guy... It is after all Lowe who offered up the six year deal to a player coming off major surgery who still had another full year on his existing contract.

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#137 BarryS
October 28 2009, 01:08PM
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Jason Gregor wrote:

It is Cogs, not Gogs...If you use nicknames get them straight...

Thanks for that. "Sigh" Does this mean you agree or disagree with the comment??

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#138 BarryS
October 28 2009, 01:14PM
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Hemmercules wrote:

Thanks, I never payed much attention to +/-.

It would be interesting to see another good faceoff guy on this team. Take the load off a bit. Horc even said once that having to take the draw and get off the ice so many times takes it toll. Being constantly put in defensive situations doesn't exactly breed offence either. Hope Horc can get some confidence soon, he looked lost on that 3 on 1 last night.

Seems to me Gagne is picking up his stats. Don't know the level of competition he faced though. And Penner, when Gagne is thrown out, or whatever, has good numbers.

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#139 Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach
October 28 2009, 01:17PM
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@BarryS

It's also Gagner

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#140 BarryS
October 28 2009, 01:20PM
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Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach wrote:

It's also Gagner

-Well, the spelling side of my brain is on holidays and my hands are typing from memory and its not very good either.-

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#141 cableguy - 2nd Tier Fan
October 28 2009, 01:21PM
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BarryS wrote:

Seems to me Gagne is picking up his stats. Don't know the level of competition he faced though. And Penner, when Gagne is thrown out, or whatever, has good numbers.

~Simon Gagne plays for the Oilers now?~

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#142 BarryS
October 28 2009, 01:28PM
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Bingofuel

Any chance to get a spell checker on this thing?

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#143 Oil Kings
October 28 2009, 01:29PM
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Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach wrote:

I thought he was talking about Hemsky, he was kinda talking about the PP right before and then he went into talking about the trap, so who knows.

Hemsky is another fine example of trying to play solo but I believe this still applies to Moreau.

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#144 Oil Kings
October 28 2009, 01:29PM
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Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach wrote:

I thought he was talking about Hemsky, he was kinda talking about the PP right before and then he went into talking about the trap, so who knows.

Hemsky is another fine example of trying to play solo but I believe this still applies to Moreau.

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#145 BarryS
October 28 2009, 01:30PM
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@cableguy - 2nd Tier Fan

See #140

I understand Gagne plays for the hospital team again.

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#146 Al
October 28 2009, 02:02PM
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anyone hear about the trade rumour of the Kostitsyn brothers becoming Oilers?

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#147 common sense
October 28 2009, 03:11PM
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It's actually refreshing to hear honest heartfelt criticism of players. These players have got to be held accountable. If you make 5+mill/year and you're expected to produce and you don't then you can expect some criticism and if you can't take that then you need to take up a different career. As many have stated, these NHL players do not deserve guaranteed contracts especially when the biggest righest league in the world, the NFL, doesn't guarantee contracts.Are you listening Michigan Horcoff and Guitar Hero puck giveaway master Gilbert....

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#148 Ogden Brother
October 28 2009, 03:41PM
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common sense wrote:

It's actually refreshing to hear honest heartfelt criticism of players. These players have got to be held accountable. If you make 5+mill/year and you're expected to produce and you don't then you can expect some criticism and if you can't take that then you need to take up a different career. As many have stated, these NHL players do not deserve guaranteed contracts especially when the biggest righest league in the world, the NFL, doesn't guarantee contracts.Are you listening Michigan Horcoff and Guitar Hero puck giveaway master Gilbert....

Here's my beef: posting non-sense on a message board isn't holding the players accountable, it's just a bunch of irrational hot air blown around.

It's the same stuff day after day after day, the horse has been beatin to death.....Horc is having a rough start, and he's overpaid. If he doesn't pick it up to the point where he's at least a capable 2nd line center then the team is in trouble. Nothing else really needs to be said.

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#149 TonyT
October 28 2009, 03:41PM
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Al wrote:

anyone hear about the trade rumour of the Kostitsyn brothers becoming Oilers?

source?

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#150 Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach
October 28 2009, 03:56PM
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@Ogden Brother

Then what are we to talk about?

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