UPDATE AGAIN: Horcout!

Jason Gregor
November 04 2009 11:23AM

The injuries continue for the Oilers, and the latest victim is Shawn Horcoff.

We will get the exact extent of his injury after the skate today, but like I said on my show yesterday and Brownlee wrote yesterday, the Oilers will be without their highest paid forward for the next while.

Some will argue that they won’t miss his five points, -5 rating and his 25 shots. Clearly Horcoff has struggled this season, but no other centre has been solid offensively.

Sam Gagner has had a few good games, Gilbert Brule was good until he got sick and Cogliano has had three good games, but otherwise he has been invisible. One, if not two of them has to step up.

Filling Horcoff’s offensive contributions won’t be hard right now, but one of them needs to be better in the draws, and be ready to consistently face the opposition’s best defencemen. Gagner will have the best chance because he’ll be playing with Dustin Penner and Ales Hemsky. It isn’t a surprise that Gagner and Horcoff’s most productive game this year came playing with those two.

Gagner will be the guy to slide back on to the top line, but if this team is going to start winning again Cogliano or Brule need to chip in. They can’t win with just one line scoring, and that has been the case for the past six games.

Players need to grab the opportunity when it presents itself, so which centre will step up?

More injury trouble?

Horcoff is out, but he isn’t the only one hurting. Ales Hemsky didn’t skate this morning and he has an undisclosed injury. He won’t say what it is, but when the rest of the team was getting on the ice Hemsky was coming back to the rink after getting some sort of test done. He says he will play tomorrow, but he isn’t 100 per cent healthy.

Ladislav Smid didn’t practice either and I will fill you in on his status after practice.

Theo Peckham was re-assigned to Springfield after the game in Long Island, because Steve Staios looks ready to play. He practiced today and took part in some contact drills and it looks like he will return tomorrow night.

Mike Comrie was also on the ice, and should be ready against the Rangers as well.

New centre?

Based on practice, it looks like Patrick O’Sullivan will be the other centre now that Horcoff is out. He skated with Robert Nilsson and JF Jacques. Zack Stortini skated in Hemsky’s spot with Penner and Gagner. Cogliano was with Ethan Morean and Fernando Pisani, while Brule centred Comrie and MacIntyre. You have to think if Hemsky plays then Stortini will move down and play with Brule and Comrie.

The defence pairings saw Tom Gilbert with Denis Grebeshkov, Taylor Chorney and Lubomir Visnovsky and Jason Strudwick with Steve Staios.

More on Horcoff...

I spoke with Horcoff, and he says that though his injury will put him out of play anywhere from just the next game to two weeks out, he won't require surgery.

Horcoff was pretty mum on the extent of his injury and wouldn't say exactly what the issue was, but he didn't have a brace or sling on or anything, so it's not super severe... but bad enough that he needs to rest.

Coach Pat Quinn said that Horcoff would be out for 7 to 10 days, "Page two from the trainers' manual."

Kid Gorgeous

Sheldon Souray was scheduled to do a solo skate today, and Quinn has given him the go-ahead to resume light workouts as well.

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One of Canada's most versatile sports personalities. Jason hosts The Jason Gregor Show, weekdays from 2 to 6 p.m., on TSN 1260, and he writes a column every Monday in the Edmonton Journal. You can follow him on Twitter at twitter.com/JasonGregor
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#201 BarryS
November 04 2009, 10:28PM
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@ Reagan.

Like didn't you die of dementia or something a few years after you left office as president?

Oh, not you! You certainly reason like it.

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#202 rindog
November 04 2009, 10:33PM
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BarryS wrote:

Say Ringdog, so the victim is to blame for his own injury, not the person who hurt him? Guess what, you skate for ten to fifteen years and can not turn at speed on short notice, why are you playing hockey. The player did not turn away because he did not want to, plain and simple.

I am bot blaming anyone. It is a hockey play that happens many times during any given game.

It is unfortunate that Fanelli got hurt, but the mere fact the he indeed got hurt does not mean that the other player needs to be punished.

Many players get hurt by legal checks all the time.

I am not saying that I am happy that Fanelli got hurt, I just think that is a "badluck" play.

If we want to get into a debate about the "culture" of the game - that is a totally different story.

The fact is - young players are taught to hit and hit "hard".

The harder you hit - the more scared the opposotion gets. The more scared they get, the more mistakes they make.

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#203 BigE57
November 04 2009, 10:33PM
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Hemmertime wrote:

If that kid doesnt make that hit hes sitting on the bench, I agree he could have let up and not went full speed but who ever told Scott Stevens "no Scott, we want you to guide the player into the boards, otherwise people wont respect you". 1 year is ridiculous. The injured player turned to make the pass around the boards and made it worse. I feel bad for Michael Liambas, career is over due to him skating "too fast" and the other player - who agreed to the possibility of injury by being on the ice - going into the boards awkwardly.

If there wasnt an injury on the play you'd likely see it as a great hit Robin, otherwise saying Stone is needed in our lineup would make anyone a hypocrite.

Scott Stevens was known for catching guys with their heads down in the open ice not taking full on runs at guys who were in somewhat prone positions near the boards.

The idea that this is just part of the forecheck is ridiculous, there is no need to take a full on run just to seperate the defender from the puck.

Hitting is part of the game but as another poster said there is a lack of respect among players.

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#204 BarryS
November 04 2009, 10:33PM
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Archaeologuy wrote:

If you're told for 10-15 years to hit the defenseman with the puck are you supposed to be able to not do that at the last second because the defenseman refues to prepare himself for the hit with just splitseconds before the contact is made?

Of course Liambas didnt turn away, he wasnt supposed to.

I agree with Don Cherry, one of the few things, all this body armour is more harmful to the game than its worth. I wonder how many hits get completed when both parties are at the same risk. Guess what, two equally armoured figures collide, the one in motion gains more advantage than the one standing still. The laws of physics say so. Two unarmoured players collide, those laws say both are equally at risk, especially if the boards are involved.

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#205 HansBaurMesserschmittWatson
November 04 2009, 10:38PM
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if anyone ever has any problems falling a sleep, just say my name 10 times with a german accent.

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#206 Archaeologuy
November 04 2009, 10:38PM
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@BarryS

I'm all for softer shoulder pads, no reason for anyone other than the Goalie to wear armour.

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#207 HansBaurMesserschmittWatson
November 04 2009, 10:38PM
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HansBaurMesserschmittWatson wrote:

if anyone ever has any problems falling a sleep, just say my name 10 times with a german accent.

any more then 10 and you will start to awake dark spirits.

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#208 BarryS
November 04 2009, 10:41PM
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@rindog

The only bad luck was the hitter being out of control and forgetting the purpose is getting the puck, not destroying players. As I understand it, more and more minor leagues are outlawing hitting before ages of fourteen or fifteen. The problem is the kinds of injuries is changing, true there is no doubt part of the increase in concussions is from better reporting, but I doubt all of it is. It should have gone down given the use of helmets, but this seems to have been negated by the increase in body armour.

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#209 HansBaurMesserschmittWatson
November 04 2009, 10:45PM
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BarryS wrote:

I agree with Don Cherry, one of the few things, all this body armour is more harmful to the game than its worth. I wonder how many hits get completed when both parties are at the same risk. Guess what, two equally armoured figures collide, the one in motion gains more advantage than the one standing still. The laws of physics say so. Two unarmoured players collide, those laws say both are equally at risk, especially if the boards are involved.

relax wit the laws Barry

how much equipment they wear has no role in a play when a player is taking a run at a vulnerable opponent.

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#210 Shaun Doe
November 04 2009, 10:46PM
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I find it a little odd that some people throw around the word "hurt" out there like it is somehow adequate enough to describe what happened to this kid. People, he nearly DIED. I don't know about the rest of you but it takes a considerable amount more pain than just the old "hurt" to make me want to keel over. It just makes me question how far people will take an argument for the sake of being liberal or in order to provide a learning experience. Like seriously, do you think this kid really needed to be taken out on a stretcher to teach him a lesson about keeping his head up? On a further note, people were up in arms over the Iginla hit, not due to the fact that he played hard into the corner but because there was the pressence of a slew foot. That action is illegal and thus many thought a suspension was warrented. In the case of this incident it can be argued that a charging call was necessary so why the ire over the suspension?

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#211 Reagan
November 04 2009, 10:50PM
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no comment...

Where's the shaking head smiley face? LOL

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#212 Reagan
November 04 2009, 10:52PM
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Players that give head shots don't deserve to play in organized hockey.

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#213 HansBaurMesserschmittWatson
November 04 2009, 10:52PM
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dont let don cherry the all knowing hockey guru (he should be sired by now) tell you that hockey equipment is a weapon its more of a safety precaution.

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#214 HansBaurMesserschmittWatson
November 04 2009, 10:52PM
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HansBaurMesserschmittWatson wrote:

dont let don cherry the all knowing hockey guru (he should be sired by now) tell you that hockey equipment is a weapon its more of a safety precaution.

Better ?

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#215 Robin Brownlee
November 04 2009, 10:57PM
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HansBaurMesserschmittWatson wrote:

Better ?

Suggesting a public figure like Don Cherry is a "drunk" or was drunk when he made a particular statement is libellous and actionable, even on a hockey website. If you can't prove it, you can't say it.

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#216 BarryS
November 04 2009, 10:58PM
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@HansBaurMesserschmittWatson

Yes it does. The balistic plastic gear gives players a false sence of invulnerability and the resultant careless caused thereby. Besides, football players, wear less equipment than hockey players and the spend a lot of the game falling on concrete covered with plastic grass. Don't see receivers and defensive backs wearing balistic plastic elbow pads and they leap into the air before falling on the concrete.

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#217 HansBaurMesserschmittWatson
November 04 2009, 11:01PM
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i dont have to prove it, its just an opinion.

sean avery told me.

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#218 HansBaurMesserschmittWatson
November 04 2009, 11:01PM
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BarryS wrote:

Yes it does. The balistic plastic gear gives players a false sence of invulnerability and the resultant careless caused thereby. Besides, football players, wear less equipment than hockey players and the spend a lot of the game falling on concrete covered with plastic grass. Don't see receivers and defensive backs wearing balistic plastic elbow pads and they leap into the air before falling on the concrete.

Mobility.

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#219 rindog
November 04 2009, 11:04PM
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BarryS wrote:

The only bad luck was the hitter being out of control and forgetting the purpose is getting the puck, not destroying players. As I understand it, more and more minor leagues are outlawing hitting before ages of fourteen or fifteen. The problem is the kinds of injuries is changing, true there is no doubt part of the increase in concussions is from better reporting, but I doubt all of it is. It should have gone down given the use of helmets, but this seems to have been negated by the increase in body armour.

How exactly was he out of control?

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#220 Hemmertime
November 04 2009, 11:08PM
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@BigE57

Ya but Stevens hurt people at center, and still hit hard on the boards. I believe a few injuries there too. Still, one of the best defensive D men ever and I loved him. Sidetracking though heh. That was a hit Ryan Stone and any pesky fw would make, I wouldnt mind 1-5 game suspension if they thought it was dirty, ending another kids career that was only doing what hes paid to do is atrocious.

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#221 Robin Brownlee
November 04 2009, 11:09PM
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HansBaurMesserschmittWatson wrote:

i dont have to prove it, its just an opinion.

sean avery told me.

It's obvious you don't know the first thing about Canadian libel laws and defamation, so don't even think about getting into it with me.

You cannot simply offer the opinion Cherry is a drunk without proof. Don't do it, or you get gone.

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#222 BarryS
November 04 2009, 11:09PM
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HansBaurMesserschmittWatson wrote:

Mobility.

Ever heard of the forearm shiver? In football you also have to prove anything covering the arm and elbow can't be used as a weapon. Come up whenever anyone tries to play with a cast on a broken arm. And football players wear better helmets than hockey players, though not as good as they could be.

And quess what, hockey players need mobility just as much or more than football players. Still, hockey players use their equipment as weapons and always have.

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#223 Hemmertime
November 04 2009, 11:14PM
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I am sorry Lambias, you are too fast of a skater to be able to hit.

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#224 Hemmertime
November 04 2009, 11:16PM
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and WTF is with this TV schedule. 4/6 games on PPV - 3 of them away. Craptacular.

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#225 BarryS
November 04 2009, 11:17PM
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rindog wrote:

How exactly was he out of control?

Because he made up his mind to make a hit and did't reconsider. Understand, racecar drivers make split second decisions at 150 miles per hour to avoid crashes, blown tires etc, so players can at 10 - 15 miles per hour if they want to.

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#226 HansBaurMesserschmittWatson
November 04 2009, 11:19PM
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Hemmertime wrote:

and WTF is with this TV schedule. 4/6 games on PPV - 3 of them away. Craptacular.

its tough

i was at BP's on calgary trail for the game agaisnt the islanders

instead of renting the game they just showed the new york feed from their satelite

wow do those islander commentators love hemsky

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#227 Hemmertime
November 04 2009, 11:19PM
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@BarryS

If he does anything else besides hit him when buddy turned around and put his head in the boards chances are Lambias is falling awkwardly into the boards.

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#228 Hemmertime
November 04 2009, 11:22PM
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HansBaurMesserschmittWatson wrote:

its tough

i was at BP's on calgary trail for the game agaisnt the islanders

instead of renting the game they just showed the new york feed from their satelite

wow do those islander commentators love hemsky

I get my PPV games from other feeds normally, PHX announcers act like ours do for Ovechkin. Minnesota loves him too, pretty much everyone thinks the world of him except Philly I think it was - talking about how he could be so much better if he didnt try deking at all, I think it was the game where he did his 2 dekes later in the game last year lol. Ferraro is the harshest critic of Hemmer...and even he loves him; and HNIC some days.

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#229 HansBaurMesserschmittWatson
November 04 2009, 11:23PM
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BarryS wrote:

Because he made up his mind to make a hit and did't reconsider. Understand, racecar drivers make split second decisions at 150 miles per hour to avoid crashes, blown tires etc, so players can at 10 - 15 miles per hour if they want to.

barry man stop comparing apples and oranges aand then apples and bananas WTF bud ?

stay on track

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#230 BarryS
November 04 2009, 11:23PM
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@ HansBaurMesserschmittWatson

I see, you can smell his breath through the tv screen? You saw him taking a drink? You are an expert with training on how drunks act? You can prove you know how Don Cherry acts when he is drunk? You know for sure he was not on some sort of medication? You can prove you know how Don Cherry acts when sober? You can produce documentation to stand up in court on all these things? Answer no to any of these and the lawyers will make mince pie of youl

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#231 HansBaurMesserschmittWatson
November 04 2009, 11:26PM
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BarryS wrote:

@ HansBaurMesserschmittWatson

I see, you can smell his breath through the tv screen? You saw him taking a drink? You are an expert with training on how drunks act? You can prove you know how Don Cherry acts when he is drunk? You know for sure he was not on some sort of medication? You can prove you know how Don Cherry acts when sober? You can produce documentation to stand up in court on all these things? Answer no to any of these and the lawyers will make mince pie of youl

Yes, it is then.

i can draw conclusions, cant i ?

isnt that what you are doing from the hit and equipment and players behavior with it, isnt ?

asnwer no to any of these and ron mclean will make a nicer pie out of you

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#232 HansBaurMesserschmittWatson
November 04 2009, 11:28PM
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heartless or a drunk ? Robin

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#233 BarryS
November 04 2009, 11:28PM
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HansBaurMesserschmittWatson wrote:

barry man stop comparing apples and oranges aand then apples and bananas WTF bud ?

stay on track

I was discussing the ability to make decisions at speed. I believe both hockey players and race care drivers are human beings. To say a hockey player can not change his mind at any time is just not true. If the player has time to turn his back, the hitter has time to change his direction.

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#234 HansBaurMesserschmittWatson
November 04 2009, 11:30PM
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BarryS wrote:

I was discussing the ability to make decisions at speed. I believe both hockey players and race care drivers are human beings. To say a hockey player can not change his mind at any time is just not true. If the player has time to turn his back, the hitter has time to change his direction.

who said anything about players not being able to change their minds ?

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#235 HansBaurMesserschmittWatson
November 04 2009, 11:32PM
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i am also glad that u believe that they are all human beings

imagine if toyotas team was all annunaki reptilians

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#236 Robin Brownlee
November 04 2009, 11:32PM
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HansBaurMesserschmittWatson wrote:

heartless or a drunk ? Robin

You're out of chances, smart guy. One more reference to this and you're done here. Got it?

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#237 BarryS
November 04 2009, 11:35PM
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HansBaurMesserschmittWatson wrote:

Yes, it is then.

i can draw conclusions, cant i ?

isnt that what you are doing from the hit and equipment and players behavior with it, isnt ?

asnwer no to any of these and ron mclean will make a nicer pie out of you

You can draw any private conclusion you want. The problem here is to state your conclusion publicly means you have to publish your proof publicly as well. Believe it or not, there have been studies on the changes in behaviour of individuals and what they wear. You know the idea the uniform makes the man. Well its true.

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#238 HansBaurMesserschmittWatson
November 04 2009, 11:38PM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cM2ja_ZFFy8

enjoy

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#239 BarryS
November 04 2009, 11:42PM
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HansBaurMesserschmittWatson wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cM2ja_ZFFy8

enjoy

Sorry, given the state of technology and the cheapness of it, as a general principle I don't believe anything on youtube.

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#240 HansBaurMesserschmittWatson
November 04 2009, 11:43PM
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BarryS wrote:

Sorry, given the state of technology and the cheapness of it, as a general principle I don't believe anything on youtube.

huh?

its cbc

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#241 rindog
November 04 2009, 11:43PM
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BarryS wrote:

Because he made up his mind to make a hit and did't reconsider. Understand, racecar drivers make split second decisions at 150 miles per hour to avoid crashes, blown tires etc, so players can at 10 - 15 miles per hour if they want to.

He anticipated that a hit was going to be there? The goalie stopped and then left the puck for the guy. The guy reversed direction and the hit was made.

Pretty simple hockey play if you ask me.

It's just unfortunate the guy got hurt.

At any rate....

AGREE TO DISAGREE!

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#242 BarryS
November 04 2009, 11:45PM
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HansBaurMesserschmittWatson wrote:

huh?

its cbc

So CBC posted it on youtube? I highly doubt it so that means someone else did so the comment still applies.

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#243 BarryS
November 04 2009, 11:46PM
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rindog wrote:

He anticipated that a hit was going to be there? The goalie stopped and then left the puck for the guy. The guy reversed direction and the hit was made.

Pretty simple hockey play if you ask me.

It's just unfortunate the guy got hurt.

At any rate....

AGREE TO DISAGREE!

Of course. This has been a pleasant exchange of ideas without personal slurs, so we can.

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#244 PartyPooper
November 04 2009, 11:48PM
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@Robin Brownlee

Robin Brownlee wrote:

Body checking at the NHL level was orginally allowed, and encouraged, as a way of battling for the puck. It's morphed into something ugly as the decades have passed. Much of the crap that passes for tough hockey now is nothing more than mayhem accepted by an audience that thinks seeing a player laid out on the ice, like dismembered bodies and five-on-one ass-kickings on YouTube, is "kinda cool." It's sickening.

This.

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#245 BarryS
November 04 2009, 11:53PM
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PartyPooper wrote:

Robin Brownlee wrote:

Body checking at the NHL level was orginally allowed, and encouraged, as a way of battling for the puck. It's morphed into something ugly as the decades have passed. Much of the crap that passes for tough hockey now is nothing more than mayhem accepted by an audience that thinks seeing a player laid out on the ice, like dismembered bodies and five-on-one ass-kickings on YouTube, is "kinda cool." It's sickening.

This.

And your point is? This by itself is meaningless.

corrected 12:00 pm 05/11

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#246 PartyPooper
November 04 2009, 11:56PM
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How about:

'This' is worth repeating.

'This' is very true.

'This' mirrors my thoughts.

And you are correct, my post was completely without any mean.

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#247 BarryS
November 04 2009, 11:59PM
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PartyPooper wrote:

How about:

'This' is worth repeating.

'This' is very true.

'This' mirrors my thoughts.

And you are correct, my post was completely without any mean.

Phew. My ability to read minds through the internet is no longer what it once was. Never thought to get old enough to agree with such sentiments but, alas, I am both.

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#248 HansBaurMesserschmittWatson
November 05 2009, 12:28AM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khywEqMgtUI

i thought this was pretty funny by kovalev

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#249 HansBaurMesserschmittWatson
November 05 2009, 12:34AM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNw8ZZT8tOU

this is even funnier

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#250 HansBaurMesserschmittWatson
November 05 2009, 12:50AM
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Archaeologuy wrote:

Tough for me to say how much Respect was there to begin with.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwB21wtLN84&feature=related

i think this answers it a little bit

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