UPDATED: Monday morning musings

Jason Gregor
December 14 2009 11:40AM

After a weekend of hibernating, what else is there to do when Edmonton is the second coldest place in the world (someplace in Siberia was two degrees colder Saturday night)? Let’s find out what exactly is going on in Oilerville and the league.

A five-game winning streak has the Oilers back in the playoff hunt, although they are still four points out. The Oilers will need to reel off at least four more wins this month just to stay in contention.

The first place — that’s right first freaking place — Los Angeles Kings come to town tomorrow. Normally the Oilers stink up the joint after a lengthy road trip, but they’d never won five road games on one trip before, so who knows how they will play tomorrow.

I know things are slow in Oilerville, when many of you are debating whether Devan Dubnyk is a legitimate goalie. Fact is we won’t find out anytime soon because Pat Quinn will keep going with Jeff Deslauriers until Nikolai Khabibulin returns. Don’t expect that to happen until 2010, and the likely hood of Khabibulin being traded at the deadline is as likely as me coming back from Costa Rica with flowing locks. Not going to happen!

Annual board of governor meetings

The meetings will be held in Florida this week and concussions, Coyotes’ ownership and future Canadian cities will be the hot topics.

I’d be curious what Wild GM, Chuck Fletcher, has to say on concussions. The Wild have had four players out with head injuries — Andrew Ebbett, Pierre-Marc Bouchard, Brent Burns and Petr Sykora — so he’ll be listening closely.

The pace of the game is leading to more concussions, so they either get better helmets or have a severe crackdown on head shots. The problem with the latter is that many of the perceived head shots are legal hits under the current rule book.

Will they change the wording, or have it read that any contact that hits the head first is an automatic penalty?

Once again there is such a grey area that it would be hard for officials to call it correctly.

How often have we seen a hit in a slow-motion replay where it was questionable whether the initial contact was on the head of shoulder? If we can't decide in slow motion how do they expect the officials to get it right in real time?

It's a slippery slope, because if they take a hard stance it could lead to fewer hits overall and that won’t be good for the game.

Edge Holdings Inc is a research investment firm, and they submitted their letter of intent to purchase the Coyotes. Did they do any research that could prove that the Coyotes are a good investment? They must be purchasing them with the hope that they can relocate after a year.

This is a good strategy, and one that Mr. Balsillie should have looked at rather than trying to move the team out of Phoenix before he actually owned the team.

Your move!

The Christmas roster freeze starts on Sunday, so if a team is going to make a move it has to happen before then. The Canadiens are looking to move Jaroslav Halak, but with Philly signing John Grahame there isn’t a long list of teams looking for a goalie. In fact, there are more teams trying to get rid of goalies than bring one in.

The Flyers are a mess. They are tied with the Leafs for 14th in the East, but they aren’t out of it by any stretch. They are only four points behind Montreal for 8th spot and they have three games in hand. Every team in the East is in the playoff hunt excluding the Hurricanes.

On Saturday, 15th place in the West would have been 9th in the East. Only the Oilers, 3-5-1, the Blues, 2-4-2 and the Ducks, 4-5-1 have losing records against the East.

The Avalanche beat the Flames for the 3rd straight time last night, but they are only 2-7-2 against the rest of the NW. The Flames, meanwhile are 0-3 v. the Avs, but are 5-0-1 against the rest of the division. It’s strange that the Avs can dominate the Flames but struggle against the Oilers, Canucks and Wild. The Canucks are 8-4 in the division, while the Oilers are 4-5-1.

I will update you after Oiler practice on the health of Comrie and Khabibulin.

Practice Update: 1:36pm MST

Neither Sheldon Souray nor Gilbert Brule are practicing this morning. Here's what the lines look like:

Penner — Gagner — O'Sullivan
Moreau — Potulny — Cogliano
Nilsson — Horcoff — Stone
Jacques — Pouliot — Stortini

Gilbert — Grebeshkov
Smid — Visnovsky

Brule didn't skate because he wasn't feeling well. He doesn't have an injury and they expect him to play tomorrow night. Souray is resting his back, and back's can be unpredictable. They might err on the cautious side and give him a few extra days.

Look for Horcoff to play with Stone and Nilsson tomorrow. Quinn said he liked what they did in St. Louis, which would mean that Patrick O'Sullivan would play with Jacques and Stortini. He won't mess with the top line, unless Brule gets worse, and he likes the Moreau/Potulny/Cogliano trio.

Nikolai Khabibulin had a good day two days ago, but he isn't ready to skate with the team just yet. Quinn said he was surprised it has taken this long, but they are being very cautious. Mike Comrie looks like he won't return until after Christmas.

Pouliot looked okay, but I'd guess they'd want him to get some conditioning down in Springfield before he plays here. The only way he plays is if Brule can't go, and that seems unlikely.

Ddf3e2ba09069c465299f3c416e43eae
One of Canada's most versatile sports personalities. Jason hosts The Jason Gregor Show, weekdays from 2 to 6 p.m., on TSN 1260, and he writes a column every Monday in the Edmonton Journal. You can follow him on Twitter at twitter.com/JasonGregor
Avatar
#1 Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach
December 14 2009, 11:54AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Just throwing it out there but when not make it mandatory that all players do their chin straps up and that all players must wear mouth guards? Wouldn't doing somethig simple be the first step?

Avatar
#2 Jmask5
December 14 2009, 11:55AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

So Brule plays one of his best games as an Oiler and then gets injured?? Sounds about right.

Avatar
#3 Tyler
December 14 2009, 11:56AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

I went to Costa Rica a year and a half ago Jason - great place. Where are you headed?

Avatar
#4 Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach
December 14 2009, 11:57AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

What does Pouilot look like?

Assume that Staios and Strudwick are the third pairing?

Avatar
#5 Oilforblood
December 14 2009, 11:58AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

It should be interesting to see what, if anything, is done in regards to head shots. However, isn't there a better and easier solution to concussions that should be addressed first?

Mouthguards and chinstraps. It would be interesting to know how many of these concussions resulted from hitting the head on the ice as the helmet comes loose as most players prefer to keep thier chin straps ridiculously loose. Its it a comfort thing (like the old excuse about seatbelts)? Is it the cool factor? I dont pretend to have the answer to that, but going off of memory I can recall a lot of players bouncing their bare melons off of the ice as their helmets werent on properly in the first place.

The mouthguards also offer significant protection against concussion, but it doesnt appear that all players wear them... or at least dont wear them properly. (Yes, Im talking to you Mr. Kane...)

Instead of re-writing the rules on contact, should the board of governors be looking at enforcing chin straps and mouthguards first?

Just a thought.

Avatar
#6 Mother Pucker Hockey
December 14 2009, 12:02PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Now what happened to Souray? I go away for a few days and come back to see he isn't practicing? Was this a "give an old guy the night off" thing or is he hurt?

Avatar
#7 cableguy - 2nd Tier Fan
December 14 2009, 12:04PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Mother Pucker Hockey wrote:

Now what happened to Souray? I go away for a few days and come back to see he isn't practicing? Was this a "give an old guy the night off" thing or is he hurt?

hurt

edit: bad back apparently

Avatar
#8 Giggsunited
December 14 2009, 12:06PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Have you guys heard anything like this on Khabibulin? Apparently he is going to have back surgery to fix a herniated disc? and if he chose to retire would it count against the cap since he signed over the age of 35?

Avatar
#9 Giggsunited
December 14 2009, 12:07PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

pure speculation of course on retirement

Avatar
#10 Hemmertime
December 14 2009, 12:08PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

I always thought "If you injure someone with an illegal hit the length of your suspension can be no shorter than how long it takes that player to return." would be good. You'd be alot more careful on boarding or elbows. The legal hits to the head are hard to stop though, some players play with their head down and stuck out so its naturally going to get smacked around on clean hits...

Avatar
#11 cableguy - 2nd Tier Fan
December 14 2009, 12:09PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Giggsunited wrote:

Have you guys heard anything like this on Khabibulin? Apparently he is going to have back surgery to fix a herniated disc? and if he chose to retire would it count against the cap since he signed over the age of 35?

apparently the wording in the CBA might indicate it is only if he retires after the first year..

All Player Salary and Bonuses earned in a League Year by a Player who is in the second or later year of a multi-year SPC which was signed when the Player was age 35 or older (as of June 30 of the League Year in which the SPC is to be effective), but which Player is not on the Club's Active Roster, Injured Reserve, Injured Non Roster or Non Roster, and regardless of whether, or where, the Player is playing, except to the extent the Player is playing under his SPC in the minor leagues, in which case only the Player Salary and Bonuses in excess of $100,000 shall count towards the calculation of Averaged Club Salary;

i am by no means a CBA expert, but i "think" the oilers might be ok if he were to retire right away.

now, if you are 'bulin, would you walk away from that much money so soon? doubtful

Avatar
#12 Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach
December 14 2009, 12:10PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

@Hemmertime

You really think they would do something like that? I can't see the league risking the chance at losing one of their star players due to suspension because he ended a players career.

Avatar
#13 Hemmertime
December 14 2009, 12:10PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Giggsunited wrote:

Have you guys heard anything like this on Khabibulin? Apparently he is going to have back surgery to fix a herniated disc? and if he chose to retire would it count against the cap since he signed over the age of 35?

Yes, no matter what happens to Khabby he counts against the cap.

@ Jason Gregor

I always wondered though, what if we sent Khabby down to the minors (clearing waivers) and then he retired in the minors... what would happen to his cap hit? Since it is essentially 0 when he retired since he was on the minor league team.

Avatar
#14 Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach
December 14 2009, 12:13PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

@cableguy - 2nd Tier Fan

It's a little early to be speculating. I'm kinda thinking about it, but at the same time there is so many factors envolved that I will until the team makes a statement.

Avatar
#15 Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach
December 14 2009, 12:15PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

@Hemmertime

except to the extent the Player is playing under his SPC in the minor leagues, in which case only the Player Salary and Bonuses in excess of $100,000 shall count towards the calculation of Averaged Club Salary;

So from what I gather that would be 3.65mil

Avatar
#16 cableguy - 2nd Tier Fan
December 14 2009, 12:16PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach wrote:

It's a little early to be speculating. I'm kinda thinking about it, but at the same time there is so many factors envolved that I will until the team makes a statement.

oh, i agree 100%.

i am still driving the tank bandwagon in hopes of an actual rebuild, this would be, in a sick way, kinda handy

Avatar
#17 Dan the Man
December 14 2009, 12:16PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Only 4 D-Men available for practice? Not good.

The players are the ones that decide not to tighten their chin straps or to wear their mouth guards properly...if they aren't worried, should we be?

If it was up to me I'd bubble wrap all of their heads.

Avatar
#18 Giggsunited
December 14 2009, 12:20PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
cableguy - 2nd Tier Fan wrote:

oh, i agree 100%.

i am still driving the tank bandwagon in hopes of an actual rebuild, this would be, in a sick way, kinda handy

ya me too, I must admit I got a little excited there!

Avatar
#19 Hemmertime
December 14 2009, 12:20PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach wrote:

except to the extent the Player is playing under his SPC in the minor leagues, in which case only the Player Salary and Bonuses in excess of $100,000 shall count towards the calculation of Averaged Club Salary;

So from what I gather that would be 3.65mil

Thanks!

So we could save 3% heh

Avatar
#20 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
December 14 2009, 12:24PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Dan the Man wrote:

Only 4 D-Men available for practice? Not good.

The players are the ones that decide not to tighten their chin straps or to wear their mouth guards properly...if they aren't worried, should we be?

If it was up to me I'd bubble wrap all of their heads.

Agreed. They control the game. The collective "they" obviously aren't overly concerned about it, so let them at each other.

Avatar
#21 Oil Kings 'n' Pretty Things
December 14 2009, 12:56PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

1. Ice Edge agreed to keep the team in Phoenix for the remainder of the lease on the arena. That locks them in for 26 more years.

2. One thing that I've been thinking about (especially after watching a lot of CFL football with my girlfriend this season)... Why doesn't the NHL allow teams to challenge calls (or non-calls) for penalties? Seems to me that if teams are given a challenge - or one in lieu of their time out - it might keep players a little bit more accountable. With all of the cameras on the ice, why rely on 3 or 4 refs to see everything?

Avatar
#22 TigerUnderGlass
December 14 2009, 12:59PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

@OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F

Except for the fact that their respective organizations have invested significantly in the players as assets and have a right to protect their assets.

Another thing to consider...Why do they make construction workers wear hard hats? If they don't care why should their bosses? Liability.

All it would take is one instance where a court decides that the league or a team did not fulfill their duty in regards to player safety to cause major problems for NHL teams. Signed waivers are only useful to a point. Imagine if it was determined that the league investigated helmet enforcement and knew it would help but decided against it. That could go badly for the league.

Avatar
#23 HansBaurMesserschmittWatson
December 14 2009, 01:16PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Oil Kings 'n' Pretty Things wrote:

1. Ice Edge agreed to keep the team in Phoenix for the remainder of the lease on the arena. That locks them in for 26 more years.

2. One thing that I've been thinking about (especially after watching a lot of CFL football with my girlfriend this season)... Why doesn't the NHL allow teams to challenge calls (or non-calls) for penalties? Seems to me that if teams are given a challenge - or one in lieu of their time out - it might keep players a little bit more accountable. With all of the cameras on the ice, why rely on 3 or 4 refs to see everything?

i dont understand, even with 4 referees on the ice alot of penalies are missed and unnoticed. nhl is a joke league, full of chiefs and not enough indians.

in the nfl is a referee fcuks up a call, people notice and they pay by not being able to ref playoff games and are eventually fired if they suck.

i blame don cherry and his followers for all that is wrong with the nhl.

Avatar
#24 GSC
December 14 2009, 01:17PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Monday morning, you sure look fine...

Avatar
#25 Rob...
December 14 2009, 01:20PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Hemmertime wrote:

I always thought "If you injure someone with an illegal hit the length of your suspension can be no shorter than how long it takes that player to return." would be good. You'd be alot more careful on boarding or elbows. The legal hits to the head are hard to stop though, some players play with their head down and stuck out so its naturally going to get smacked around on clean hits...

Here's a scenario for you: Ovie gets pressed against the boards a little roughly by a checker, next shift the checker starts bringing the puck out of his end. Ovie lines him up for some payback but the checker moves at the last moment. Without thinking, the knee goes out, and the checker ends up with a torn MCL and is out for the remainder of the season.

How many games does he get?

How about the next guy who pulls the exact same move, but the 'victim' escapes with just a sore knee, returning to the game by the next period.

Sadly, it's probably best to leave it up to the league officials to interpret intent, history, and everything else they use in handing down their decision.

PS: When a superstar gets less of a punishment than a goon, is it possible that the punishments actually are equitable, but based on minutes rather than games? Take a 25 minute a night player away for 2 games has a lot more of an impact than taking a 6 minute a night player away for 5.

Avatar
#26 Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach
December 14 2009, 01:25PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

@HansBaurMesserschmittWatson

The NHL does the samething. Actually the only league I heard that does it different is the CFL, they go with the best group of guys instead of individual all-star refs. Their theory is an all-star group is better then have all-star individuals that never worked together.

The problem is yes there is 4 guys out there, but only 2 really have the power to do anything.

Avatar
#27 Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach
December 14 2009, 01:26PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
PS: When a superstar gets less of a punishment than a goon, is it possible that the punishments actually are equitable, but based on minutes rather than games? Take a 25 minute a night player away for 2 games has a lot more of an impact than taking a 6 minute a night player away for 5.

Someone mentioned this to me the other day and it was pretty hard to disagree with.

Avatar
#28 Oil Kings 'n' Pretty Things
December 14 2009, 01:30PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach wrote:
PS: When a superstar gets less of a punishment than a goon, is it possible that the punishments actually are equitable, but based on minutes rather than games? Take a 25 minute a night player away for 2 games has a lot more of an impact than taking a 6 minute a night player away for 5.

Someone mentioned this to me the other day and it was pretty hard to disagree with.

That depends who you think should be penalized for the player's decisions on the ice.

If you consider the suspension as a punishment to the team, the reasoning stands.

If you consider it as a punishment to the player, you're still letting them off easy.

5 games is 5 games whether you're Zack Stortini or Alex Ovechkin, especially due to the fact that salary is based on GP and not TOI.

Avatar
#29 HansBaurMesserschmittWatson
December 14 2009, 01:35PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

@Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach

i just find it funny how every year for the last decade the always taking about cheap shots and headshots and elbows and all the other nonsense and yet the havent figure nothing out. yet they are so concerned about jim moving a team into torontos market that they willgo to all expent to make sure that dont happen. so tehy can respect one teams?rich bastards wishes, yet they cant respect their players and eachother that earn them selves the money of the game of hockey.

Avatar
#30 common sense
December 14 2009, 01:36PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

I wonder how much the NHL will lose in Phoenix this year. Article in the Sun Saturday that said that the turnstile attendance in Tampa was like 4000 less than stated attendance. This league is in big doo doo. The Avs are doing well but Denver attendance is crummy. I hate to the almighty loonie propping up loser cities like Alberta props up pertual welfare provine Quebec with billions in transfer monies annually. Sorry for the politico...

Avatar
#31 E-Mac
December 14 2009, 01:38PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

What is all this getting rid of Khabby talk? We're going to need the Bulin Wall for the playoffs. No one really thinks he will go far with JDD leading us, do they? Khabby will be back before seasons end, get in shape, and be ready, and fresh, for a long run to the Cup. I'll see you all on Whyte Ave come June.

Avatar
#32 Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach
December 14 2009, 01:38PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

@Oil Kings 'n' Pretty Things

Days on roster not GP. And fair arguement.

Avatar
#33 HansBaurMesserschmittWatson
December 14 2009, 01:38PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

@common sense they wont lose any money in the long run. thats why we are paying 85 bucks to sit in the nosebleeds at rexall.

Avatar
#34 Bob Cob
December 14 2009, 01:39PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Oil Kings 'n' Pretty Things wrote:

1. Ice Edge agreed to keep the team in Phoenix for the remainder of the lease on the arena. That locks them in for 26 more years.

2. One thing that I've been thinking about (especially after watching a lot of CFL football with my girlfriend this season)... Why doesn't the NHL allow teams to challenge calls (or non-calls) for penalties? Seems to me that if teams are given a challenge - or one in lieu of their time out - it might keep players a little bit more accountable. With all of the cameras on the ice, why rely on 3 or 4 refs to see everything?

Couple things: 1: You cant challenge a call or non call for penalties in the CFL or NFL. You can only challenge player related actions like catch or no catch, two feet inbounds, ball placement and if the ball broke the goalline. The ref's need some control of the game, and to be able to overturn penalties would take that away from them.

2: You want to make the players more accountable, lose the instigator rule.

Avatar
#35 Oil Kings 'n' Pretty Things
December 14 2009, 01:42PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Bob Cob wrote:

Couple things: 1: You cant challenge a call or non call for penalties in the CFL or NFL. You can only challenge player related actions like catch or no catch, two feet inbounds, ball placement and if the ball broke the goalline. The ref's need some control of the game, and to be able to overturn penalties would take that away from them.

2: You want to make the players more accountable, lose the instigator rule.

Refs shouldn't have control of the game if their calls contradict empirical evidence to the contrary.

If a ref makes a call based on something they think they saw, and there's sufficient video evidence to disprove the player action in question, why should they have the power to enforce a penalty?

Avatar
#36 HansBaurMesserschmittWatson
December 14 2009, 01:42PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

@Bob Cob

tell me, how do you feel that getting rid of the instigator rule would help all or any of this, please?

Avatar
#37 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
December 14 2009, 01:43PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
TigerUnderGlass wrote:

Except for the fact that their respective organizations have invested significantly in the players as assets and have a right to protect their assets.

Another thing to consider...Why do they make construction workers wear hard hats? If they don't care why should their bosses? Liability.

All it would take is one instance where a court decides that the league or a team did not fulfill their duty in regards to player safety to cause major problems for NHL teams. Signed waivers are only useful to a point. Imagine if it was determined that the league investigated helmet enforcement and knew it would help but decided against it. That could go badly for the league.

I mean more towards the fan. Every time theirs a questionable hit, the message boards and call in shows light up regarding how "something must be done".

Avatar
#38 RossCreekNation
December 14 2009, 01:45PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Its simple, really...

the players should drink beer all summer and quit working out in the off season, wear old school equipment with no helmets, anyone over 6-2 210lbs should be banned for life, obstruction should be put back in...

~Clearly!~

Avatar
#39 Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach
December 14 2009, 01:48PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

The problem with instant replay is it will slow the game down. If the NHL is to have instant replay they need to make sure that don't have teams making 10 calls a game.

And what exactly are we looking for the refs to review?

I don't think penalties will be a reviewable offense as that will get to facked.

Off-sides/icing, what is the point?

They already have reviews for goals. Maybe pucks hitting the netting?

Avatar
#40 Oil Kings 'n' Pretty Things
December 14 2009, 01:50PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach wrote:

The problem with instant replay is it will slow the game down. If the NHL is to have instant replay they need to make sure that don't have teams making 10 calls a game.

And what exactly are we looking for the refs to review?

I don't think penalties will be a reviewable offense as that will get to facked.

Off-sides/icing, what is the point?

They already have reviews for goals. Maybe pucks hitting the netting?

What about non-calls behind a ref? We've all seen plays off-camera like high sticking and whatnot that never get called. The only time the play's ever whistled down as a result is when someone's injured enough to stay down. Why not allow the refs to review footage to determine what happened?

Plus you won't end up with dozens of challenges if you enforce an appropriate penalty (delay of game?) for challenging something and losing.

Avatar
#43 Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach
December 14 2009, 01:57PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

@Oil Kings 'n' Pretty Things

Well that's the issue, do you go for the non-calls? I mean none of the other leagues can review penalties, is that something the league wants to get into? How many non-calls are there in a game and then what happens with the borderlin crap?

I just don't see it working as penalties are mostly called on refs opinions.

Avatar
#44 Oil Kings 'n' Pretty Things
December 14 2009, 02:05PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach wrote:

Well that's the issue, do you go for the non-calls? I mean none of the other leagues can review penalties, is that something the league wants to get into? How many non-calls are there in a game and then what happens with the borderlin crap?

I just don't see it working as penalties are mostly called on refs opinions.

That's one thing I have a big problem with, and maybe I'm biased as a result...

I think the criteria for penalties should be a lot more objective. It gives the refs fewer opportunities to directly influence the game one way or another.

Jason Gregor wrote:

When do you think this would work in hockey?

I guess I'm really arguing two things at the moment, so I think I should lay things out so they don't get mixed up.

(1) Non-calls could be reviewed on a team's challenge

(2) Calls could be reviewed on a team's challenge

(2) would be much easier, I think, because most calls that could be reviewed result in a stoppage in play. Goaltender interference where the opposing team's forward is pushed into the goaltender could be a prime example as the camera angle from above can be very useful in determining what happened. Same goes for something like tripping. If play gets whistled down as a result of a trip, and video review shows no contact between the players, what is the downside to reviewing the play and overturning the ruling?

Avatar
#45 Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach
December 14 2009, 02:08PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

@Oil Kings 'n' Pretty Things

The downside is you end up with a debacle like we had with the toe in the crease review crap. Everyone thought it would be easy to see if a puck went into the crease before the puck, but it wasn't. Then what we had was every goal be reviewed. Penalties would be worse as now you have four monkeys on the ice arguing about what they think should be called.

Avatar
#46 TigerUnderGlass
December 14 2009, 02:08PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Jason Gregor wrote:

There is a stoppage after every play in football, thus they have time to throw the challenge flag.

When do you think this would work in hockey?

And in football if they miss a clipping or a holding or an illegal block away from the play that isn't reviewable.

YOu don't need it in hockey except for goals, otherwise you have to review at a stoppage, then rewind the clock and start from there. Makes no sense.

Bingo.

Aside from the stoppage problem, trying to implement replays on subjective calls opens up an especially ugly can of worms.

Avatar
#47 Bob Cob
December 14 2009, 02:12PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
HansBaurMesserschmittWatson wrote:

tell me, how do you feel that getting rid of the instigator rule would help all or any of this, please?

It would greatly help player accountability, guys like Jordin Tootoo and Matt Cooke, who like to run around and take advantage of people in bad positions would have to pay for dirty hits and if they got there ass kicked once or twice they may back off. Now, you cant touch a guy after a dirty check if the ref missed it, if you do and he doesn't want to fight the instigator gets the 2, your teammate is on the ice, and the idiot that hit him is sitting on his bench. It would make players police themselves, look at when Gretzky played with the Oilers in the early 80's, no one touched him because Dave Semenko would patrol the wings and fill you in if you did without fear of putting his team down an extra 2 minutes. It would result in less injuries, better hockey, and a cleaner, more honest game.

Avatar
#48 Tyler
December 14 2009, 02:19PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

@Jason Gregor

Awesome. I went there too. Pretty druggy beachside town. I was walking down the beach and there's this guy with a table full of beads. I was wondering how he makes a go of it - the bead market can't be that strong. Turn's out he's an aggressive salesman with a diverse product line: "Hey mister - want to buy some beads?" "No." "Want to buy some cocaine?"

It's that kind of place. Not much in terms of sights - I preferred Fortuna and Monteverde but lots of fun and you can basically spend the day sitting in the ocean. Enjoy yourself.

Avatar
#49 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
December 14 2009, 02:20PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Bob Cob wrote:

It would greatly help player accountability, guys like Jordin Tootoo and Matt Cooke, who like to run around and take advantage of people in bad positions would have to pay for dirty hits and if they got there ass kicked once or twice they may back off. Now, you cant touch a guy after a dirty check if the ref missed it, if you do and he doesn't want to fight the instigator gets the 2, your teammate is on the ice, and the idiot that hit him is sitting on his bench. It would make players police themselves, look at when Gretzky played with the Oilers in the early 80's, no one touched him because Dave Semenko would patrol the wings and fill you in if you did without fear of putting his team down an extra 2 minutes. It would result in less injuries, better hockey, and a cleaner, more honest game.

So then why do we see instigator penalties called fairly regularly?

Guys are getting jumped all the for clean hits.

The instigator isn't near as big a deal as you are making it out to be.

Avatar
#50 Oil Kings 'n' Pretty Things
December 14 2009, 02:26PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach wrote:

The downside is you end up with a debacle like we had with the toe in the crease review crap. Everyone thought it would be easy to see if a puck went into the crease before the puck, but it wasn't. Then what we had was every goal be reviewed. Penalties would be worse as now you have four monkeys on the ice arguing about what they think should be called.

Consider the goaltender interference scenario:

Penner is standing in front of the opposing team's net, and Chara swoops in and ploughs him into Thomas. The ref sees Penner fall into Thomas but not the push, and calls the penalty. This results in a stoppage in play. Quinn sees what happened and decides to challenge now that the play is dead. Play is reviewed, clearly shows that Chara pushed Penner into Thomas, and no penalty is assessed.

Is this a terrible thing for the league?

Comments are closed for this article.