Time for a change: let the do-over begin

Robin Brownlee
December 29 2009 11:38AM

I'll admit to being stubborn when it comes to changing my mind on stances I've taken, like the need to tear down the Edmonton Oilers roster and start over with a full-scale rebuild, but the abomination that is the Oilers seven-game losing streak has made a believer out of me.

While the make-up and mix of the roster coach Pat Quinn has to work with has looked wrong to me since training camp broke, I have been of the mind, given injuries and illness, that GM Steve Tambellini should wait 50-60 games to start undoing this edition of the team.

Even then, I wasn't in for a full-scale Dive For Five, but after watching this mis-matched collection of players that's supposed to be a team fade into a nothingness that can only be described as an epic fail, 39 games has me convinced.

Consider me a card-carrying member of the DFF Faction, a convert to the belief that Tambellini, or somebody else if he doesn't have the stomach or wherewithal for the job, has to do whatever it takes to get to square one.

Dan Barnes pulled the trigger by calling for the same thing today in The Journal, so I'm not claiming to be staking new ground here, but I'd rather catch on to what many fans here at OilersNation and elsewhere have been saying sooner rather than later.

It's broke. Time to fix it.

The ugly details

I said a week or so ago my philosophy for the DFF is that landing a 2010 draft lottery pick should be considered an aside to a proper rebuild, not the focus of it. I'm sticking by that because I don't believe a Taylor Hall or a Tyler Seguin is the cure-all for the Oilers, even if it is a start.

The goal for me is freeing up cap space and creating options, rather than throwing the mess Kevin Lowe created on the shoulders of 18-year-old kids coming out of the draft, no matter how talented they might be, in the next couple of years.

  • If I'm Tambellini, I'm faxing the other 29 GMs in the league a list of roster players I'm willing to trade before the New Year. I'm informing them that I'm ready to deal between now and the deadline.
    The only players NOT on that list are Ales Hemsky, Ladislav Smid, Andrew Cogliano, Ryan Potulny, J.F. Jacques, Dustin Penner, Ryan Stone, Zack Stortini, Gilbert Brule and Sam Gagner.
    With the exception of Hemsky and Penner, these players don't put a significant dent in the salary cap now and likely won't in their next contracts. There is no windfall waiting for Cogliano or Gagner this summer, so they aren't going anywhere, at least not yet.
  • While it's unlikely there'll be calls for players at the top of the salary scale like Shawn Horcoff, Sheldon Souray or Lubomir Visnovsky, I'd make them as attractive as possible. Dump their salary for picks and prospects, if possible. Yes, these contracts are next-to-impossible to trade, but you take a shot and see what happens. If one or all of them are back, so be it.
  • I'm especially pushing Ethan Moreau, Steve Staios and Patrick O'Sullivan before the deadline. They could be decent pieces for the right team during the stretch drive, even with some term left.
  • My 2010-11 edition of the Oilers includes Jordan Eberle, Magnus Paajarvi-Svensson, Theo Peckham and Taylor Chorney.
  • My first moves before hitting the fax machine are, as Barnes suggested, finding out if surgery is the answer for Horcoff's shoulder and Nikolai Khabibulin's back.
    Surgery takes them out of play in terms of trades in the unlikely case that anybody would be interested -- Mike Milbury isn't an option -- but it helps secure a lottery pick. 

At the top

  • If I'm owner Daryl Katz, I'm grading Tambellini on what he does between now and the trade deadline. If I don't see a significant shift in the right direction, he gets a pink slip when the season ends.
  • If Tambellini gets the sack, then Quinn moves from coach to GM, while associate Tom Renney and assistants Wayne Fleming and Kelly Buchberger run the bench. I also look at rescuing Rob Daum from the shit show that is Springfield and adding him to the staff here.
  • The entire hockey operations side gets re-evaluated at the end of the season, and that evaluation begins with the scouting staff, starting with Kevin Prendergast.
  • If I'm Katz, I take a long look at old pal Kevin Lowe, now the president of hockey operations, and ask some tough questions. Does he serve out the term of his extension or take the fall now for the mess he left Tambellini? Either way, Lowe's days are numbered.
  • If I'm Katz, I call Tambellini, Lowe and anybody who has a stake in the decision-making process and inform them in no uncertain terms the do-over starts now. Then, I call a news conference to tell fans exactly that.

— Listen to Robin Brownlee every Wednesday and Thursday from 4 to 6 p.m. on Just A Game with Jason Gregor on TEAM 1260.

Aceb4a1816f5fa09879a023b07d1a9b4
A sports writer since 1983, including stints at The Edmonton Journal and The Sun 1989-2007, I happily co-host the Jason Gregor Show on TSN 1260 twice a week and write when so inclined. Have the best damn lawn on the internet. Most important, I am Sam's dad. Follow me on Twitter at Robin_Brownlee. Or don't.
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#51 swany
December 29 2009, 01:01PM
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crash wrote:

You better hold off on this one for now....I think the LA Kings may be beginning their descent down the standings

Smitty still has to come back plus I see them making a deal to keep this going

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#52 crash
December 29 2009, 01:01PM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

Potential summertime targets:

Hartnell - If the Oilers are disapointing this year, I'd hate to see how people view the Flyers. Flyers manangement typically isn't very patient... a solid player from that team could be on the move. He and Penner would give us a good 1-2 punch for big bodies that can score in the top 6.

Sharp - Someone has to be moved in Chicago this summer, if it's Sharp the Oil should be all over it. Solid 2 way player that can get you 25 goals and play all 3 forward positions on any of the top 3 lines. Consolation prize: Barker

Volchenkov - UFA this summer that would give us that physical, shot blocking Dman in his prime.

Willie Mitchell - Consolation prize to Volchenkov. Could be a good vetran Dman to replace Staios.

Bobby Ryan - Long shot, but rumours are that he and the Ducks are having troubles with his contract extension. If true, the Oilers should have Gagner+ on the table.

Horton - having a big season might have brought him off the market, but theirs been trade rumblings he wasn't happy in Florida.

Spezza - Lower on my list, but he's had a rough season and Ott may wish to have a clean break from the former Spezza/Heatly duo. If something could be worked around Horc+Cogs+prospect...

Move some vets off the current roster add one of the above + Hall + some roll players like Travis Moen on the cheap this summer and the Oil will be on there way.

Patience people on Gagner...if we trade Gagner we are going to regret it...

You can see the skill in his game...build around this guy don't include him in trades for guys like Bobby Ryan...holy crap man

I like going after Horton if he can be had, same with Sharp and Hartnell...I'd also like to add Jeff Carter to that list as he has been rumoured to possible be available

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#53 Max Powers - Team HME Evans
December 29 2009, 01:03PM
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I personally think Katz is getting his hands dirty himself. The 'If I'm Katz' points means nothing to me cause I think he is pulling some strings. I'm not saying Lowe is any better, but I think Lowe is poisoning Katz' mind. Katz is the king from Lord of the rings, and Lowe is Snick. Snick has poisoned the kings mind and someone needs to break the Lowe-mind control curse on Katz. We need a Gandalf.

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#54 Oil Kings 'n' Pretty Things
December 29 2009, 01:03PM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

Potential summertime targets:

Hartnell - If the Oilers are disapointing this year, I'd hate to see how people view the Flyers. Flyers manangement typically isn't very patient... a solid player from that team could be on the move. He and Penner would give us a good 1-2 punch for big bodies that can score in the top 6.

Sharp - Someone has to be moved in Chicago this summer, if it's Sharp the Oil should be all over it. Solid 2 way player that can get you 25 goals and play all 3 forward positions on any of the top 3 lines. Consolation prize: Barker

Volchenkov - UFA this summer that would give us that physical, shot blocking Dman in his prime.

Willie Mitchell - Consolation prize to Volchenkov. Could be a good vetran Dman to replace Staios.

Bobby Ryan - Long shot, but rumours are that he and the Ducks are having troubles with his contract extension. If true, the Oilers should have Gagner+ on the table.

Horton - having a big season might have brought him off the market, but theirs been trade rumblings he wasn't happy in Florida.

Spezza - Lower on my list, but he's had a rough season and Ott may wish to have a clean break from the former Spezza/Heatly duo. If something could be worked around Horc+Cogs+prospect...

Move some vets off the current roster add one of the above + Hall + some roll players like Travis Moen on the cheap this summer and the Oil will be on there way.

I'd like to see Barker on the team. I went to school with him - he's a good kid.

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#55 crash
December 29 2009, 01:04PM
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swany wrote:

Smitty still has to come back plus I see them making a deal to keep this going

You could be right if they make a deal or two...Smytty was back last night and they lost on home ice to Minny...they have also lost Justin Williams to a broken leg.

They are now approaching 8th in the west at a decent pace.

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#56 GSC
December 29 2009, 01:04PM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

Potential summertime targets:

Hartnell - If the Oilers are disapointing this year, I'd hate to see how people view the Flyers. Flyers manangement typically isn't very patient... a solid player from that team could be on the move. He and Penner would give us a good 1-2 punch for big bodies that can score in the top 6.

Sharp - Someone has to be moved in Chicago this summer, if it's Sharp the Oil should be all over it. Solid 2 way player that can get you 25 goals and play all 3 forward positions on any of the top 3 lines. Consolation prize: Barker

Volchenkov - UFA this summer that would give us that physical, shot blocking Dman in his prime.

Willie Mitchell - Consolation prize to Volchenkov. Could be a good vetran Dman to replace Staios.

Bobby Ryan - Long shot, but rumours are that he and the Ducks are having troubles with his contract extension. If true, the Oilers should have Gagner+ on the table.

Horton - having a big season might have brought him off the market, but theirs been trade rumblings he wasn't happy in Florida.

Spezza - Lower on my list, but he's had a rough season and Ott may wish to have a clean break from the former Spezza/Heatly duo. If something could be worked around Horc+Cogs+prospect...

Move some vets off the current roster add one of the above + Hall + some roll players like Travis Moen on the cheap this summer and the Oil will be on there way.

Is that you, TambLowe?

Chasing the "big fish" only lands the Oilers in deep water with nothing to show for it. Excuse the metaphor, but IMO that's one of the biggest self-inflicted wounds that the organization has brought upon itself.

Volchenkov or Mitchell would be a nice veteran shutdown defenceman, but at what price? If Mattias Ohlund went for $3.6 MIL to Tampa, what is the going rate for one of those two (and both are better than Ohlund)? The idea of a Ryan or Horton is sexy, but again, at what price?

I say it's time the organization got smart with its spending. If you're going to sign free agents, sign some prime-aged/veteran players who give you bang for the buck, value depth players that the organization sorely lacks. Overspending on UFA's is not the way to go. I'd love to see the Oilers take a Buffalo Sabres stance on those kind of contracts, sticking to developing their own talent and keeping that talent around for the long haul.

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#57 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
December 29 2009, 01:06PM
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swany wrote:

But isn't this the opposite of what RB is taking about, We have enough guys comming up to make room for and if this is a total rebuild going after guys like Hartnell, Mitchell, Spezza are backwards steps, but the other guys yes it should be looked at all young guys that could fit right in

I don't think we need the full blow up. With a horribly unbalanced line-up, it's still a bubble team when healthy.

I think the ground work has already been laid for "young talent" Gagner/MSP/Eberle and with the hopefull addition of Hall could go head to head with any teams 20 and under forwards. We also lucked out with Brule stealing what looks like the equivalent of another top 10 pick.

Add Sharp or Hartnell + 2 legit 3rd line forwards in their prime with size while subtracting O'sully+Cogs and 2 out of Moreau/Stone/JFJ/Stortini and one of Gilbert/Grebs with a legit top pairing physical dman and this team could go toe to toe with any team outside of the elite 4-6.

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#58 RossCreekNation
December 29 2009, 01:07PM
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@OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F

You're hired.

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#59 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
December 29 2009, 01:08PM
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crash wrote:

Patience people on Gagner...if we trade Gagner we are going to regret it...

You can see the skill in his game...build around this guy don't include him in trades for guys like Bobby Ryan...holy crap man

I like going after Horton if he can be had, same with Sharp and Hartnell...I'd also like to add Jeff Carter to that list as he has been rumoured to possible be available

Do you know who Bobby Ryan is?

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#60 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
December 29 2009, 01:10PM
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GSC wrote:

Is that you, TambLowe?

Chasing the "big fish" only lands the Oilers in deep water with nothing to show for it. Excuse the metaphor, but IMO that's one of the biggest self-inflicted wounds that the organization has brought upon itself.

Volchenkov or Mitchell would be a nice veteran shutdown defenceman, but at what price? If Mattias Ohlund went for $3.6 MIL to Tampa, what is the going rate for one of those two (and both are better than Ohlund)? The idea of a Ryan or Horton is sexy, but again, at what price?

I say it's time the organization got smart with its spending. If you're going to sign free agents, sign some prime-aged/veteran players who give you bang for the buck, value depth players that the organization sorely lacks. Overspending on UFA's is not the way to go. I'd love to see the Oilers take a Buffalo Sabres stance on those kind of contracts, sticking to developing their own talent and keeping that talent around for the long haul.

Non of those guys are "big fish" (with the exception of maybe Spezza)

Their proven, quality NHL'ers in the prime of their careers, that are either on teams that either have to make a move, or are likely to want a shake-up.

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#61 crash
December 29 2009, 01:15PM
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Archaeologuy wrote:

An important thing to remember is that the Oilers arent starting their youth movement with a lottery pick this season. The Oilers have some good young players on the NHL roster right now in guys like Brule, Gagner, and Cogs. They also have a group of 3-4 even younger guys playing over-seas and in the CHL that make up the bulk of the next group that should battle for jobs NEXT season in guys like MPS, Omark, and most importantly Eberle who is the best player in the CHL (better than Hall as of right now by the way). The lottery pick the Oilers are on pace to receive would only be adding to the stable of youth that is heading to Oil country.

This isnt the starting point, this might be looked back as the point where the Oilers pushed their rebuild into overdrive. Face it. The Oilers are rebuilding whether they want to or not. Key roles are already being filled by unproven young players. Why not make it official and shed some salary while we're at it? The ground work of good drafting APPEARS to have been done already.

Also totally agree with this...it doesn't have to take 3 to 5 yrs to compete again...look at Colorado after adding Duchene..

Taylor Hall could make an immediate positive impact on this team next season along with Gagner another year older, Brule, Hemsky, Penner, Eberle, Svensson.

Then if assets such as Souray, POS, Cogs, Moreau, Staios, Gilbert, Gregs and picks can be used to add something of note we can be a competitive team, maybe even a playoff team next season. It would all depend on the impact of Taylor Hall/Tyler Seguin, Eberle and Svensson.

Add a Seabrook or Barker and a forward such as Sharp or Hartnell or Jeff Carter, maybe sign some grit such as Armstrong and/or Tootoo and it doesn't really look all that bad.

Penner Hall Hemsky Sharp/Hartnell Gagner Eberle Svensson Horcoff Tootoo Jacques Armstrong Stortini

Barker Vishnovsky Smid Gilbert/Grebs (whichever one we don't trade) Chorney Peckham

If we're lucky maybe we can actually sign a Hamhuis

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#62 Racki
December 29 2009, 01:15PM
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Been saying the same things as the original post for a while now. I think more and more people are starting to see the need for it. I'm sure even the players are seeing it as well too, and that probably helps the "DFF" cause in a way. Not to say that they're intentionally tanking, but similar to last year, last place is probably really weighing on these guys and dragging many of the players down.

As I said, I've been a fan of a re-build and tanking for tyler/taylor, however I too don't see those players as the cure all. We're 12 points out though, so the way I see it, the team might as well try and clean this mess up and grab a good player in the process. At this point, I see no reason to salvage dignity and make a push up the standings when in all likelihood it will result in maybe 9th or 10th place at best.

There are several mid-range contracts - Nilsson, Pisani, Moreau, Staios, O'Sullivan - that should be moved or waived (exclusion: Pisani, as his comes off at the end of the year). There should be no excuse for these guys lingering around another year.

Horcoff's contract will be near impossible to move, but if Tambellini pulls it off, I'll completely forgive him for making the second worst signing in Oiler history (signing a 35+-year old, to a 4-year contract - although I do like Khabi for 1 or 2 years).

The Oilers have a big opportunity to start the 2010-11 season very fresh and on a higher note than they did this year. And maybe this time around Tambellini will stop chasing after the big names and listen to those of us that suggested a Betts/Malhotra type player, a shutdown/bruising d-man, and a goaltender who is still in his prime. edit: oh yah, one thing to add.. this isn't a complete re-build, the way I see it. We have several "core" players here. We just need to dump some dead weight and sign some CHEAPER complementary players, and move a couple/few of the small skilled guys.

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#63 swany
December 29 2009, 01:16PM
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crash wrote:

You could be right if they make a deal or two...Smytty was back last night and they lost on home ice to Minny...they have also lost Justin Williams to a broken leg.

They are now approaching 8th in the west at a decent pace.

I'm not to sure on what they need but they have to replace Williams, maybe trade for a guy like Souray, and another top six forward they have a ton of assets there farm is stocked.

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#64 GSC
December 29 2009, 01:17PM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

Non of those guys are "big fish" (with the exception of maybe Spezza)

Their proven, quality NHL'ers in the prime of their careers, that are either on teams that either have to make a move, or are likely to want a shake-up.

Given the salary they might command, they're considered "Big Fish". Ryan would mean an offer sheet, which has to be a no-no at this stage. Horton makes $4 MIL, fair enough he's probably worth it...but what is the asking price? All things to consider right now.

Hey, I'd love to acquire some of those players (namely Volchenkov), but for a team that's rebuilding you can't go out and throw money at free agents. Lowe did that already, remember? Look at what happened...

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#65 Oil Kings 'n' Pretty Things
December 29 2009, 01:18PM
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crash wrote:

Also totally agree with this...it doesn't have to take 3 to 5 yrs to compete again...look at Colorado after adding Duchene..

Taylor Hall could make an immediate positive impact on this team next season along with Gagner another year older, Brule, Hemsky, Penner, Eberle, Svensson.

Then if assets such as Souray, POS, Cogs, Moreau, Staios, Gilbert, Gregs and picks can be used to add something of note we can be a competitive team, maybe even a playoff team next season. It would all depend on the impact of Taylor Hall/Tyler Seguin, Eberle and Svensson.

Add a Seabrook or Barker and a forward such as Sharp or Hartnell or Jeff Carter, maybe sign some grit such as Armstrong and/or Tootoo and it doesn't really look all that bad.

Penner Hall Hemsky Sharp/Hartnell Gagner Eberle Svensson Horcoff Tootoo Jacques Armstrong Stortini

Barker Vishnovsky Smid Gilbert/Grebs (whichever one we don't trade) Chorney Peckham

If we're lucky maybe we can actually sign a Hamhuis

Wouldn't be terrible, although I wouldn't pick up Tootoo. I'd also keep Smid and Visnovsky together and put Barker with Gilbert/Grebs.

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#66 Arby
December 29 2009, 01:21PM
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"Then, I call a news conference to tell fans exactly that."

I honestly think this part is the key. I think the worst part about this whole mess for me personally, is the glaring lack of direction shown from the management over the last 4 full seasons. I will happily extract what little joy I can out of the remaining games, if they just outline a plan, and assure me it will be followed through to fruition. I'm not looking for a timeframe, I don't even need to know all the details!

Just show me (not to mention your younger players, prospects and potential free agents)an effin plan is in place. Thanks

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#67 crash
December 29 2009, 01:21PM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

Do you know who Bobby Ryan is?

Yes I know who Bobby Ryan is and I'm not trading Gagner to get him let alone Gagner + something. I don't mind adding Bobby Ryan but not at that cost.

I also know that he turns 23 in March and playing in Anaheim much of the time with Getzlaf and Perry and his numbers aren't much better than Gagner's who isn't playing with Getzlaf and Perry..

Look at Gagner's numbers the short time he was playing alongside Hemsky and Penner

I reiterate...if the Oil trade Gagner...they WILL regret it

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#68 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
December 29 2009, 01:25PM
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GSC wrote:

Given the salary they might command, they're considered "Big Fish". Ryan would mean an offer sheet, which has to be a no-no at this stage. Horton makes $4 MIL, fair enough he's probably worth it...but what is the asking price? All things to consider right now.

Hey, I'd love to acquire some of those players (namely Volchenkov), but for a team that's rebuilding you can't go out and throw money at free agents. Lowe did that already, remember? Look at what happened...

You don't need to offer sheet Ryan, you can trade for him. I would imagine he would command something in the 5 - 6 million range...and at 22 after scoring at a 40 goal pace as a rookie and a 37 goal pace thus far this year (at 6-1 210lbs to boot) he'd be well worth it.

Volchenkov would likely cost you 4 - 4.5 on the open market (assuming he gets there) Mitchell probably 3.25 - 3.75. If Gilbert/Grebs are moved, both would be well worth the $$. The rest are all under contract

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#69 crash
December 29 2009, 01:25PM
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Fair enough but I hate when the Oil play against Tootoo...he hits everything that moves and he can also skate and play the game...and he drops the gloves

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#70 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
December 29 2009, 01:26PM
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crash wrote:

Yes I know who Bobby Ryan is and I'm not trading Gagner to get him let alone Gagner + something. I don't mind adding Bobby Ryan but not at that cost.

I also know that he turns 23 in March and playing in Anaheim much of the time with Getzlaf and Perry and his numbers aren't much better than Gagner's who isn't playing with Getzlaf and Perry..

Look at Gagner's numbers the short time he was playing alongside Hemsky and Penner

I reiterate...if the Oil trade Gagner...they WILL regret it

His numbers aren't much better then Gagner? You need to go take a closer look at Ryan.

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#71 The Real Scuba Steve
December 29 2009, 01:29PM
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Quinn moves from coach to GM, while associate Tom Renney and assistants Wayne Fleming and Kelly Buchberger run the bench. I like it!!

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#72 crash
December 29 2009, 01:31PM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

His numbers aren't much better then Gagner? You need to go take a closer look at Ryan.

Like I said I wouldn't mind having Bobby Ryan but not for Gagner...

Why don't you explain it to me because I'm not getting what you are saying about Ryan. He has 97 points in the NHL at age 23...Gagner is ahead of him and is 3 yrs younger. Plus Ryan plays with Getzlaf and Perry.

I would bet that Gagners numbers at age 23 in 3 yrs will be better than what Ryan is putting up now.

So what am I missing?

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#73 RossCreekNation
December 29 2009, 01:32PM
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Awesome article on Penguins goaltender Marc-Andre Fleury...

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/penguins/s_659578.html?feed=12

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#74 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
December 29 2009, 01:35PM
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crash wrote:

Like I said I wouldn't mind having Bobby Ryan but not for Gagner...

Why don't you explain it to me because I'm not getting what you are saying about Ryan. He has 97 points in the NHL at age 23...Gagner is ahead of him and is 3 yrs younger. Plus Ryan plays with Getzlaf and Perry.

I would bet that Gagners numbers at age 23 in 3 yrs will be better than what Ryan is putting up now.

So what am I missing?

....you're comparing a guy that's played +/- a hundred games in the NHL TOTAL numbers against a guy that's played almost 200 total games....

Ryan was at almost a PPG average last year, Gagner hasn't even been .7

More importantly Ryan is a goal score. He scored at a 40 goal pace as a rookie. He's scored at a 37 goal pace this year.

He played less then half his 5 on 5 production with Perry/Getzlaf.

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#75 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
December 29 2009, 01:36PM
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RossCreekNation wrote:

Awesome article on Penguins goaltender Marc-Andre Fleury...

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/penguins/s_659578.html?feed=12

RC, as a (somewhat) unbiased foe, please confirm that

Ryan >>>> Gagner

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#76 GSC
December 29 2009, 01:39PM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

You don't need to offer sheet Ryan, you can trade for him. I would imagine he would command something in the 5 - 6 million range...and at 22 after scoring at a 40 goal pace as a rookie and a 37 goal pace thus far this year (at 6-1 210lbs to boot) he'd be well worth it.

Volchenkov would likely cost you 4 - 4.5 on the open market (assuming he gets there) Mitchell probably 3.25 - 3.75. If Gilbert/Grebs are moved, both would be well worth the $$. The rest are all under contract

That's all well and good, but how do you move contracts like Souray, Visnovsky, Horcoff, and Gilbert?

Before any of this can happen, salary has to be moved. House has to be cleaned. You're jumping to phase 3, and we're not even at phase 1. Remember the Underpants Gnomes, before you can get to profit (phase 3) you have to get underpants (phase 1).

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#77 RossCreekNation
December 29 2009, 01:39PM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

RC, as a (somewhat) unbiased foe, please confirm that

Ryan >>>> Gagner

I'd share that opinion, yes.

That's why I don't think Gagner (or any NHLer on their roster for that matter) is untouchable. Its rather simple. If Gagner can get you a young player of similar offensive skill set (more of a scorer though) that is a better fit, then you do it. It's not like you're saying they should actively be trying to rid themselves of him, but if there's a deal out there that makes sense, well, like Ted Dibiase used to say... "Everybody's got a price! HaHaHaHaHaHa". Same goes for Cogliano, or any other player (ie: Dubinsky for Cogliano).

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#78 crash
December 29 2009, 01:45PM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

....you're comparing a guy that's played +/- a hundred games in the NHL TOTAL numbers against a guy that's played almost 200 total games....

Ryan was at almost a PPG average last year, Gagner hasn't even been .7

More importantly Ryan is a goal score. He scored at a 40 goal pace as a rookie. He's scored at a 37 goal pace this year.

He played less then half his 5 on 5 production with Perry/Getzlaf.

Yes I am and Gagner has done this at age 20..Ryan didn't crack an NHL lineup until last year...if you want to compare apples to apples look at Gagners numbers after he turns age 22 as that is the age that your Bobby Ryan has put these numbers up.

Ryan is also another big body who brings very little grit to his game. He has also played on a better hockey team the last 2 yrs.

This plays a factor in the numbers, no?

Ryan is basically one year away from reaching his prime (between age 24 and 30)

Again you still aren't convincing me we should give up Gagner + to obtain Ryan.

Ryan is not worth Gagner

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#79 Oil Kings 'n' Pretty Things
December 29 2009, 01:46PM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

RC, as a (somewhat) unbiased foe, please confirm that

Ryan >>>> Gagner

I wouldn't put too much stock in RossCreek's opinion of players. After all, it landed him lower than me in the draft as of today.

254. RossCreek Renegades 493 -43

216. Team Discovery Channel 497 -39

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#80 RossCreekNation
December 29 2009, 01:48PM
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Would Slats have an interest in Ethan Moreau? Afterall, it was he who brought him here. All the Oil would have to do is take Chris Higgins back IMO. He's a UFA at season's end, and the cap hits are basically a wash.

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#81 RossCreekNation
December 29 2009, 01:51PM
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Oil Kings 'n' Pretty Things wrote:

I wouldn't put too much stock in RossCreek's opinion of players. After all, it landed him lower than me in the draft as of today.

254. RossCreek Renegades 493 -43

216. Team Discovery Channel 497 -39

WHAAAAA!!!?

Blast that OK'n'PT, blast him!!

That Eric Staal sure is a wonderful fella, eh? (I assume it was he that led your charge?)

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#82 crash
December 29 2009, 01:52PM
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Oil Kings 'n' Pretty Things wrote:

I wouldn't put too much stock in RossCreek's opinion of players. After all, it landed him lower than me in the draft as of today.

254. RossCreek Renegades 493 -43

216. Team Discovery Channel 497 -39

LOL,

Ryan may be slightly better than Gagner at this point and that's debatable. If Ryan was playing here would he have those numbers? Ummm, I doubt it.

Gagner will pay much bigger dividends in the years to come than Bobby Ryan will IMO.

Trade for Bobby Ryan? maybe...but not at that price

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#83 RossCreekNation
December 29 2009, 01:55PM
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@crash

Str8 up, I'd make it. Isn't Hemsky some kind of incredible playmaker looking for a goalscorer to feed (next season)? Ryan should be able to manage 35-40 easily then, no? No one's selling Gagner short here, he's a decent player. But Bobby Ryan is a better fit IMO.

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#84 Heatly
December 29 2009, 01:56PM
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Pajamah wrote:

Should be tons of interest in Souray. You would think for teams not pressed up to the cap, that have a shot at the playoffs, teams would be chomping at the bit to have him.

For either Moreau, or Staios, at this point, despite good years here, they would be addition by subtraction, we have players to fill their spots, and we need picks/prospects. No 1st rounders for either guy, but maybe a 2/3

Personally, I'd pass on Armstrong, but definately would like to see Hamhuis here, but not at the expense of someone who can be a shutdown guy against a teams 1st line

Hopefully we can send Souray to L.A. for a great prospect. Can't wait till trade deadline. Nothings going to happen till March anyway.

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#85 Dodd
December 29 2009, 01:57PM
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I agree on all points... except Vishnosky.

Besides a few lapses recently, he has been everything we could ask of him. If one good defenceman could win a game, he would have done that for us a few times.

He makes the right decision most of the time, and can skate/stick his way out of most trouble. Expensive? Yes. Effective? Yes.

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#86 Oil Kings 'n' Pretty Things
December 29 2009, 01:59PM
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RossCreekNation wrote:

WHAAAAA!!!?

Blast that OK'n'PT, blast him!!

That Eric Staal sure is a wonderful fella, eh? (I assume it was he that led your charge?)

God knows it wasn't Zdeno Chara. What the crap is wrong with Boston this year?

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#87 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
December 29 2009, 01:59PM
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GSC wrote:

That's all well and good, but how do you move contracts like Souray, Visnovsky, Horcoff, and Gilbert?

Before any of this can happen, salary has to be moved. House has to be cleaned. You're jumping to phase 3, and we're not even at phase 1. Remember the Underpants Gnomes, before you can get to profit (phase 3) you have to get underpants (phase 1).

How do we move them? Google search NHL transactions, big contracts are moved every year.

They wont all go, but 1 for sure, probably 2 would be relatively easy to move.

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#88 bingofuel
December 29 2009, 02:00PM
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OilersNation reader @magnumoctavius sent me this new image for the site... what do you guys think? (Click here)

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#89 crash
December 29 2009, 02:02PM
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RossCreekNation wrote:

Str8 up, I'd make it. Isn't Hemsky some kind of incredible playmaker looking for a goalscorer to feed (next season)? Ryan should be able to manage 35-40 easily then, no? No one's selling Gagner short here, he's a decent player. But Bobby Ryan is a better fit IMO.

Fair enough we agree to disagree and I'm quite sure Gagner will prove me right when he reaches the age Ryan is now.

Hemsky should soon have guys like Hall, Eberle and Svensson to feed...maybe even Sharp

Ryan might be a better fit at this very moment but going forward, I don't think so...

If I can get Ryan in a trade without including Gagner then I welcome it.

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#90 RossCreekNation
December 29 2009, 02:02PM
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@bingofuel

lol, nice

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#91 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
December 29 2009, 02:03PM
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crash wrote:

Yes I am and Gagner has done this at age 20..Ryan didn't crack an NHL lineup until last year...if you want to compare apples to apples look at Gagners numbers after he turns age 22 as that is the age that your Bobby Ryan has put these numbers up.

Ryan is also another big body who brings very little grit to his game. He has also played on a better hockey team the last 2 yrs.

This plays a factor in the numbers, no?

Ryan is basically one year away from reaching his prime (between age 24 and 30)

Again you still aren't convincing me we should give up Gagner + to obtain Ryan.

Ryan is not worth Gagner

He partially didn't crack because of cap reasons, also theirs a general consensus that power forwards take longer.

The Ducks team is also crap this year, in fact they've scored less goals then the Oilers have. (and barely outscored them this year)

Interesting note: Their are as many or more players who have seen their numbers stay flat or go down once traded to Pits (to play with Crosby) as their are who's #'s go up. I would suggest that works the same with whomever rides shotgun with Getzlaf.

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#92 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
December 29 2009, 02:05PM
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Oil Kings 'n' Pretty Things wrote:

I wouldn't put too much stock in RossCreek's opinion of players. After all, it landed him lower than me in the draft as of today.

254. RossCreek Renegades 493 -43

216. Team Discovery Channel 497 -39

Excellent point!

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#93 Pajamah
December 29 2009, 02:06PM
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Heatly wrote:

Hopefully we can send Souray to L.A. for a great prospect. Can't wait till trade deadline. Nothings going to happen till March anyway.

Anyone you have in mind from L.A ?

You'd have to think B.Schenn is close to untouchable, who else does L.A have that we may want?

And knowing that rumors have speculated Souray going to L.A, what other prospects should we be looking at

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#94 crash
December 29 2009, 02:07PM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

He partially didn't crack because of cap reasons, also theirs a general consensus that power forwards take longer.

The Ducks team is also crap this year, in fact they've scored less goals then the Oilers have. (and barely outscored them this year)

Interesting note: Their are as many or more players who have seen their numbers stay flat or go down once traded to Pits (to play with Crosby) as their are who's #'s go up. I would suggest that works the same with whomever rides shotgun with Getzlaf.

As I said to RC...we agree to disagree

I welcome a trade for Bobby Ryan but not for Gagner...

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#95 Mowzie
December 29 2009, 02:17PM
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I would look at getting bigger, adding faceoff prowess, and creating a better balance.

I would do everything in my power to get rid of Horcoff's contract.

I would chase D. Steckel and Z. Konopka for my 3rd and 4th line centers. Both big bodies with 60%+ faceoff percentages.

I would start the AHL season with Eberle, Svennson, Lander and Omark in my top 6. Let them get used to each other and bring them up as needed between next years trade deadline and the beginning of the 11-12 season.

I would build my defense around Visonovsky and Smid.. Try and move Souray for Clowe or something like that. They'll need to replace Blake soon.

Gilbert and Grebeshkov would both be on the block, Smid needs a new contract, and there is no way we let him go.

Chase A. Sutton in the summer to replace Souray's presence.

Moreau and Staois go.

O'Sullivan goes.

Cogliano and/or Gagner are shopped for bigger players. Horton/Carter/Stafford etc. Even if we have to add something in some cases.

Hope for Taylor Hall.

\

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#96 crash
December 29 2009, 02:19PM
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Oil Kings 'n' Pretty Things wrote:

Wouldn't be terrible, although I wouldn't pick up Tootoo. I'd also keep Smid and Visnovsky together and put Barker with Gilbert/Grebs.

How could I forget Brule...he fits in their somewhere too.

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#97 RossCreekNation
December 29 2009, 02:22PM
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As Bob just put it, a very honest conversation with Shawn Horcoff coming up soon on OilersLunch.

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#98 swany
December 29 2009, 02:23PM
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I would keep Gagner he is only 20, but we must move a couple small guys at least. I would try and move Cogs, Nilsson(after how he's played there must be a market for him now) and PattyO. I keep Brule and Gagner adding to them Eberle, MPS, and Omark that's alot of skill on the small side then try and move Souray for picks prospect, and move one of Gilbert, Grebs, Grebs being easier to move because his contract is done at the end of the season. the no brainers are Moreau, and Steve. Keep JFJ, Storts for the bottom six and add from there. If we get into the bottom 5 how big is Taylor Hall? My top six next year are Penner, Gagner, Hemmer MPS, Horc, Eberle, and if you can move Horc (next to impossible) put Hall into the middle Then have Brule centre the third line with JFJ Potulny (he's a keeper can replace Pies) fouth line of Storts, (a good faceoff guy and PK'er) Stone. On D Vis, Smid, Gilbert, Chorney, Pecham and a big shut down guy.

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#99 Bucknuck
December 29 2009, 02:25PM
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crash wrote:

Fair enough but I hate when the Oil play against Tootoo...he hits everything that moves and he can also skate and play the game...and he drops the gloves

That sounds a lot like J.F. and Stortini, only smaller.

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#100 Coprnblue
December 29 2009, 02:28PM
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Ahem to that brother. Ahem to that!

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