Time for a change: let the do-over begin

Robin Brownlee
December 29 2009 11:38AM

I'll admit to being stubborn when it comes to changing my mind on stances I've taken, like the need to tear down the Edmonton Oilers roster and start over with a full-scale rebuild, but the abomination that is the Oilers seven-game losing streak has made a believer out of me.

While the make-up and mix of the roster coach Pat Quinn has to work with has looked wrong to me since training camp broke, I have been of the mind, given injuries and illness, that GM Steve Tambellini should wait 50-60 games to start undoing this edition of the team.

Even then, I wasn't in for a full-scale Dive For Five, but after watching this mis-matched collection of players that's supposed to be a team fade into a nothingness that can only be described as an epic fail, 39 games has me convinced.

Consider me a card-carrying member of the DFF Faction, a convert to the belief that Tambellini, or somebody else if he doesn't have the stomach or wherewithal for the job, has to do whatever it takes to get to square one.

Dan Barnes pulled the trigger by calling for the same thing today in The Journal, so I'm not claiming to be staking new ground here, but I'd rather catch on to what many fans here at OilersNation and elsewhere have been saying sooner rather than later.

It's broke. Time to fix it.

The ugly details

I said a week or so ago my philosophy for the DFF is that landing a 2010 draft lottery pick should be considered an aside to a proper rebuild, not the focus of it. I'm sticking by that because I don't believe a Taylor Hall or a Tyler Seguin is the cure-all for the Oilers, even if it is a start.

The goal for me is freeing up cap space and creating options, rather than throwing the mess Kevin Lowe created on the shoulders of 18-year-old kids coming out of the draft, no matter how talented they might be, in the next couple of years.

  • If I'm Tambellini, I'm faxing the other 29 GMs in the league a list of roster players I'm willing to trade before the New Year. I'm informing them that I'm ready to deal between now and the deadline.
    The only players NOT on that list are Ales Hemsky, Ladislav Smid, Andrew Cogliano, Ryan Potulny, J.F. Jacques, Dustin Penner, Ryan Stone, Zack Stortini, Gilbert Brule and Sam Gagner.
    With the exception of Hemsky and Penner, these players don't put a significant dent in the salary cap now and likely won't in their next contracts. There is no windfall waiting for Cogliano or Gagner this summer, so they aren't going anywhere, at least not yet.
  • While it's unlikely there'll be calls for players at the top of the salary scale like Shawn Horcoff, Sheldon Souray or Lubomir Visnovsky, I'd make them as attractive as possible. Dump their salary for picks and prospects, if possible. Yes, these contracts are next-to-impossible to trade, but you take a shot and see what happens. If one or all of them are back, so be it.
  • I'm especially pushing Ethan Moreau, Steve Staios and Patrick O'Sullivan before the deadline. They could be decent pieces for the right team during the stretch drive, even with some term left.
  • My 2010-11 edition of the Oilers includes Jordan Eberle, Magnus Paajarvi-Svensson, Theo Peckham and Taylor Chorney.
  • My first moves before hitting the fax machine are, as Barnes suggested, finding out if surgery is the answer for Horcoff's shoulder and Nikolai Khabibulin's back.
    Surgery takes them out of play in terms of trades in the unlikely case that anybody would be interested -- Mike Milbury isn't an option -- but it helps secure a lottery pick. 

At the top

  • If I'm owner Daryl Katz, I'm grading Tambellini on what he does between now and the trade deadline. If I don't see a significant shift in the right direction, he gets a pink slip when the season ends.
  • If Tambellini gets the sack, then Quinn moves from coach to GM, while associate Tom Renney and assistants Wayne Fleming and Kelly Buchberger run the bench. I also look at rescuing Rob Daum from the shit show that is Springfield and adding him to the staff here.
  • The entire hockey operations side gets re-evaluated at the end of the season, and that evaluation begins with the scouting staff, starting with Kevin Prendergast.
  • If I'm Katz, I take a long look at old pal Kevin Lowe, now the president of hockey operations, and ask some tough questions. Does he serve out the term of his extension or take the fall now for the mess he left Tambellini? Either way, Lowe's days are numbered.
  • If I'm Katz, I call Tambellini, Lowe and anybody who has a stake in the decision-making process and inform them in no uncertain terms the do-over starts now. Then, I call a news conference to tell fans exactly that.

— Listen to Robin Brownlee every Wednesday and Thursday from 4 to 6 p.m. on Just A Game with Jason Gregor on TEAM 1260.

Aceb4a1816f5fa09879a023b07d1a9b4
A sports writer since 1983, including stints at The Edmonton Journal and The Sun 1989-2007, I happily co-host the Jason Gregor Show on TSN 1260 twice a week and write when so inclined. Have the best damn lawn on the internet. Most important, I am Sam's dad. Follow me on Twitter at Robin_Brownlee. Or don't.
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#151 Death Metal Nightmare
December 29 2009, 04:31PM
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this "rebuild" idea should have happened immediately after Pronger left - but the Butt Faced Fans of the city took 3 SEASONS to start to stomach that the roster was garbage. Kevin Lowe just tried to appease the fools of Bread and Circus with the Penner signing and these last attempts at high end UFA's. the UFA's were smarter than the fans and said "F-OFF Edmonton. you think im getting tricked into your piranha bowl with 23 fish that holds about 2?"

Penner, Lubo and Hemsky are the only players on the list that dont get looked at as trade bait. sorry, Gagner blows. 20 or not, hes never growing anymore and hes not going to gain much speed. he cant do anything on the ice against NHL defense unless hes picking up vulture points. Potulny is always going to be a borderline AHLer. he has no pressure to perform right now. same old Oiler cycle of inflated points when the pressure is gone. same formula with the kid line.

everyone else on your list is trade bait under the right price. Brule is questionable because of the season - but again - under the right deal, hes gone.

and to think, this whole time it was "coaching" that was f-ing everything up.

and the comment about Quinn turning to GM is so hilarious its not even funny. who didnt see this coming? we hire 9 coaches, name one some goofy title and then hope a near 70-year old man wants to yell at Nintendo Generation dick heads for 82 games a year? half of them he didnt even seem interested in learning their names before he was hired. "yeah ill take the job. who is this Hamsky guy? he plays center i guess. who cares. just let me yell for a while and then put me in charge."

MacTavish part II with Renney will really woo the fans over during this "rebuild". prepare for Oilers hockey of the late 90s and 2000s to come whop your socks off in a possible new Arena for a poopy team.

ill predict right now, if they Oilers admit to a rebuild right NOW - the turnover will be 4 years or OVER before the playoffs are seen again.

high-larious

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#152 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
December 29 2009, 04:32PM
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Oil Kings 'n' Pretty Things wrote:

Go sell your rationality somewhere else. You're talking to perennial cup hopefuls here.

You can run the same modle over the 09/10 version of the Oilers. Lots of talk of competing, new coaching, new system, new attitude.

... it's still a bubble roster. Take away the best forward and the goalie and it's a lotto roster.

Yet you see dozens of angry posts like people are suprised where the team sits right now?

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#153 crash
December 29 2009, 04:33PM
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Oil Kings 'n' Pretty Things wrote:

Go sell your rationality somewhere else. You're talking to perennial cup hopefuls here.

Hmmmm don't see anywhere in any posting people saying we are winning the cup...or that we have certain expectations...

We have some prospects that are making their marks and are hopeful that it will translate into a good team sooner rather than later ala Colorado with Mat Duchene

I don't see too many hanging their hats on Omark, mostly hoping to get a top 2 pick this year along with Eberle, MPS and Gagner

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#154 RossCreekNation
December 29 2009, 04:36PM
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@Death Metal Nightmare

and the comment about Quinn turning to GM is so hilarious its not even funny. who didnt see this coming? we hire 9 coaches, name one some goofy title and then hope a near 70-year old man wants to yell at Nintendo Generation dick heads for 82 games a year? half of them he didnt even seem interested in learning their names before he was hired. "yeah ill take the job. who is this Hamsky guy? he plays center i guess. who cares. just let me yell for a while and then put me in charge."

True or not, thats one funny a$$ rant. LOL

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#155 Oil Kings 'n' Pretty Things
December 29 2009, 04:41PM
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crash wrote:

Hmmmm don't see anywhere in any posting people saying we are winning the cup...or that we have certain expectations...

How soon we forget. Take a look in the article archives to about August. How many people were expecting a cup run out of this team?

It was the same story last year.

@ Original Ogden Brother:

These passionate fans that Horcoff was talking about aren't interested in what's rational. That's all I'm saying.

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#156 crash
December 29 2009, 04:42PM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

You can run the same modle over the 09/10 version of the Oilers. Lots of talk of competing, new coaching, new system, new attitude.

... it's still a bubble roster. Take away the best forward and the goalie and it's a lotto roster.

Yet you see dozens of angry posts like people are suprised where the team sits right now?

As Stauffer said today...take away most teams best player and number one goalie and you would be looking at a bad hockey team.

How about Calgary without Iginla and Kiprusoff

Or Vancouver without Luongo and one of the Sedins

Jersey without Brodeur and Parise

Buffalo without Miller and Vanek

Etc...i think you'll find most teams struggle to make playoffs without their best player and goalie

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#157 Chris.
December 29 2009, 04:45PM
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@Death Metal Nightmare

Oiler fans have been chronically overrating their prospects for years.

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#158 crash
December 29 2009, 04:48PM
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Oil Kings 'n' Pretty Things wrote:

crash wrote:

Hmmmm don't see anywhere in any posting people saying we are winning the cup...or that we have certain expectations...

How soon we forget. Take a look in the article archives to about August. How many people were expecting a cup run out of this team?

It was the same story last year.

@ Original Ogden Brother:

These passionate fans that Horcoff was talking about aren't interested in what's rational. That's all I'm saying.

I think most fans are interested in a top 2 pick, that sounds pretty rational to me...

I'm not going back to read August postings but I can't imagine a vast majority expecting a cup run...

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#159 KenMcC
December 29 2009, 04:50PM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

His tenure has really been a joke. People want to blame Lowe, but the fact remains he was handed an 89 point team and we've now got a team on pace for 71 points.

And that reduction in points is a pretty good reflection of his moves.

Tambo's tenure has been a total joke. If I hear him say, "There's no sense jumping the gun. We're evaluating things. I've seen more fire in the guys this year and that's a good thing. There's not a lot of trades in this new NHL. What you need to realize is the strides we're making. I like our team and I like our chances. We're not far from getting out there and competing every night. We're a young team. We've had more than our share of injuries. We've got a lot of skill." _ Garf, it'd be an interesting f'ing science experiment to pop the lid off that guy and see what sort of a tangled mess he's got for brains.

Don't expect Tambo to do a glimmer better than he's done so far.

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#160 Chris.
December 29 2009, 04:50PM
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crash wrote:

As Stauffer said today...take away most teams best player and number one goalie and you would be looking at a bad hockey team.

How about Calgary without Iginla and Kiprusoff

Or Vancouver without Luongo and one of the Sedins

Jersey without Brodeur and Parise

Buffalo without Miller and Vanek

Etc...i think you'll find most teams struggle to make playoffs without their best player and goalie

Did these teams go on seven game losing streaks? Did these teams drop to 29th? I'm tired of excuses... and Stauffer must have trouble getting out of bed in the morning. It must suck to be the mouthpiece of an organization that will pay out over $60M to finish dead last in the west.

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#161 RossCreekNation
December 29 2009, 04:51PM
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I'd suggest their recent draft record looks ok. How long has Stu MacGregor been in calling the shots at the draft. It appears perhaps he's one guy the organization should hold on to? Just a thought.

(KP should go in my books.)

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#162 Chris.
December 29 2009, 04:52PM
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KenMcC wrote:

Tambo's tenure has been a total joke. If I hear him say, "There's no sense jumping the gun. We're evaluating things. I've seen more fire in the guys this year and that's a good thing. There's not a lot of trades in this new NHL. What you need to realize is the strides we're making. I like our team and I like our chances. We're not far from getting out there and competing every night. We're a young team. We've had more than our share of injuries. We've got a lot of skill." _ Garf, it'd be an interesting f'ing science experiment to pop the lid off that guy and see what sort of a tangled mess he's got for brains.

Don't expect Tambo to do a glimmer better than he's done so far.

X2!

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#163 crash
December 29 2009, 04:52PM
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Chris. wrote:

Oiler fans have been chronically overrating their prospects for years.

Don't think anyone is rating any prospect...we are looking at what they are doing in development and are hopeful that they bring the hope to the big club. As well we are looking at many of the 1st overall picks in the league and are hopeful that it could be a huge piece in helping the team be competitive sooner rather than later if we were to land a 1st overall.

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#164 KenMcC
December 29 2009, 04:54PM
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There's no sense hoping for a Low-firing, when all that would do is avenge for prior crimes, such as being able to keep the Oilers afloat in a non-cap era.

Hitting Tambo with a pink slip would at least address This Year's f_cker-upper.

Prendergast too. He's a zero.

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#165 crash
December 29 2009, 04:58PM
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Chris. wrote:

Did these teams go on seven game losing streaks? Did these teams drop to 29th? I'm tired of excuses... and Stauffer must have trouble getting out of bed in the morning. It must suck to be the mouthpiece of an organization that will pay out over $60M to finish dead last in the west.

No these teams didn't lose their best player and goaltender or they may have 7 game losing streaks...instead of being on the cusp of slitting your wrists look at this opportunity of the team missing their best player and goalie as a chance to get a coveted top 2 pick. The fact that we are as bad as we are without Hemsky and Khabby should be a clear indication to everyone just how important and good those 2 are.

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#166 KenMcC
December 29 2009, 05:00PM
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Now, for Katz: He promised he'd "spend to the cap every year". Well, guys he delivered. What the H_ll!! He gets double bonus points.

Brownlee suggested he ought to clean house and hold a press conference. Not going to happen.

If we're lucky, he might truly come out of his shell and send a text to Tencer someday that says, "Snorcoff's not going anywhere." That would prove to be the kiss of death for our shoulder-injured, lame-skating, star lobster.

I always liked Penner, really I did.

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#167 Oil Kings 'n' Pretty Things
December 29 2009, 05:00PM
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Chris. wrote:

Oiler fans have been chronically overrating their prospects for years.

Here we go. This is what I was trying to say. I fall into the same trap every year, even with our current players. It makes it difficult to temper your expectations when you have a hard time getting an accurate idea of how good your team is.

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#168 rubbertrout
December 29 2009, 05:06PM
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crash wrote:

No these teams didn't lose their best player and goaltender or they may have 7 game losing streaks...instead of being on the cusp of slitting your wrists look at this opportunity of the team missing their best player and goalie as a chance to get a coveted top 2 pick. The fact that we are as bad as we are without Hemsky and Khabby should be a clear indication to everyone just how important and good those 2 are.

Important yes but at least as far as Khabby is concerned it is indicative of the boneheaded GM moves that have been made by this organization. Khabby's injury highlights how ludicrous signing him to a 4 year deal was. Remember that this is year one and he's already broken down.

Hemmer is great but I'd be beating the drum and saying that Penner 2.0 (the slightly less fat and considerably more motivated version) is the best player on this squad by a goodly margin even if Hemsky was healthy.

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#169 KenMcC
December 29 2009, 05:07PM
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I've never played defense. 5 on 5, is there some utilitarian value to having a defenseman sort of play the low-to-middle slot area and circle around a bit whilst poking his stick at just about everything?

Or do I not quite "get" Gilbert?

(not rhetorical)

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#170 crash
December 29 2009, 05:09PM
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rubbertrout wrote:

Important yes but at least as far as Khabby is concerned it is indicative of the boneheaded GM moves that have been made by this organization. Khabby's injury highlights how ludicrous signing him to a 4 year deal was. Remember that this is year one and he's already broken down.

Hemmer is great but I'd be beating the drum and saying that Penner 2.0 (the slightly less fat and considerably more motivated version) is the best player on this squad by a goodly margin even if Hemsky was healthy.

I like Penner and always have right from year one when he lead our team in goal scoring...I never understood the mass distaste for him and I agree he's having a great year but make no mistake about it....Hemsky is this teams best player

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#171 Chris.
December 29 2009, 05:12PM
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crash wrote:

Don't think anyone is rating any prospect...we are looking at what they are doing in development and are hopeful that they bring the hope to the big club. As well we are looking at many of the 1st overall picks in the league and are hopeful that it could be a huge piece in helping the team be competitive sooner rather than later if we were to land a 1st overall.

C'mon Crash. Rating... overvaluing... whatever. Mowzie and Swany have Omark in next season's top six. Chorney is being bandied around here as a regular starting defender next season even though he's a minus 54 in less than a hundred games since turning pro. I argued with people last offseason until I had carpal tunnel sydrom that were convinced that Cogliano was on the cusp of being a thirty goal scorer. The Falcons have lost 15 in a row. Magnas WTF Svensson has just nine goals in 31 games in the SEL of all places... And Taylor Hall. Sweet Taylor Hall. The new messiah should we aquire him by destroying what little respectability this franchise has left... Is Taylor Hall going to walk straight into a bad situation and singlehandedly elevate team scoring, while stemming the huge amount of turnovers? Will he fix the PK, win all the faceoffs and improve our ability to defend down low? I don't think so.

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#172 Oil Kings 'n' Pretty Things
December 29 2009, 05:12PM
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crash wrote:

I like Penner and always have right from year one when he lead our team in goal scoring...I never understood the mass distaste for him and I agree he's having a great year but make no mistake about it....Hemsky is this teams best player

How could you not understand the mass distaste for him? The fact that people called him a lazy pile last year was largely due to the fact that he was a lazy pile last year.

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#173 KenMcC
December 29 2009, 05:15PM
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RossCreekNation wrote:

Would Slats have an interest in Ethan Moreau? Afterall, it was he who brought him here. All the Oil would have to do is take Chris Higgins back IMO. He's a UFA at season's end, and the cap hits are basically a wash.

Actually, if Slats could get MacT to be the head coach then Ethan would make a fine NYR Captain. Twoila! Instant matrimony.

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#174 Robin Brownlee
December 29 2009, 05:17PM
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@Death Metal Nightmare

Your rant works on a lot of levels -- enough that I'm not going to dissect each and every argument, even though I could. And your Quinn stuff is funny. Wrong, but funny. Quinn is 66, not 70, and he's got a better rapport with his players than a lot of younger and supposedly more-in-touch coaches do.

Likewise, he's got a better record of team-building than anybody who has occupied a front office seat here since Sather hit the lottery with his first three years of picks.

As for the "Hamsky" reference, who gives a whiz? You want to hang your whole opinion of Quinn on him mis-speaking once? Some of your posts read like you're on some pretty wicked bennies, but I still recognize you've got a pretty good handle on this team. So give Quinn a break on Hemsky.

And you're right about things taking 4-5 years, which is a timeline that will coincide with the opening of a new building. If I'm a fan, I'll take my licks for the next few years if means opening up a spanking new barn with a team that actually has a hope of being more than mediocre at best.

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#175 quicksilver ballet
December 29 2009, 05:19PM
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It's getting warm in here now...lol, just wait and see how hot it gets we go down to the TML tommorow.

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#176 RossCreekNation
December 29 2009, 05:19PM
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TSN's Darren Dreger just listed off names we've been hearing around these parts on That's Hockey!

Moreau, Pisani, Staios, Souray & Nilsson were all mentioned as being available.

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#177 Original Ogden Brother
December 29 2009, 05:20PM
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@ Crash

"As Stauffer said today...take away most teams best player and number one goalie and you would be looking at a bad hockey team.

How about Calgary without Iginla and Kiprusoff

Or Vancouver without Luongo and one of the Sedins

Jersey without Brodeur and Parise

Buffalo without Miller and Vanek

Etc...i think you'll find most teams struggle to make playoffs without their best player and goalie"

Ya I agree (except those teams move from playoff locks to bubble teams without their best forward/goalie)

That's what I'm saying though, why are people shocked about a 15th place team right now?

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#178 GSC
December 29 2009, 05:20PM
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Hemmertime wrote:

All the comments and even RB saying move Visnovsky... doesnt make sense to me unless we are getting a great return. Dumping Souray or Gilbert, fine. But Vis is signed through 3 more years and will allow our kids to grow and cover their mistakes. If we want 2-3 years of lottery picks, by all means, trade him. If we want to be decent after next season we keep him. Grebeshkov has youth but he will NEVER be what Visnovsky is.

I have to agree...if you're going to keep someone around to show the youngsters how it's done, Lubo would be it.

Sheldon would be nice, too, but at this point he's trade bait. I still would rather see Staios, Gilbert, and Grebs replaced with a veteran shutdown man, Chorney, and maybe Peckham than to continue with the current D corps.

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#179 Chris.
December 29 2009, 05:25PM
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@Robin Brownlee

You wrote: "And you're right about things taking 4-5 years, which is a timeline that will coincide with the opening of a new building. If I'm a fan, I'll take my licks for the next few years if means opening up a spanking new barn with a team that actually has a hope of being more than mediocre at best."

Unless people like me pay to watch crappy hockey for four more seasons only to be squeezed out of the picture by exhorbitent seat license fees. (Oilers still have not denied this persistant rumor... a rumor that is starting to grow legs) Is it the Katz vision to hand a shiney new downtown building complete with a shiney new team over to the corporations? I can't write off fees... and neither can many of the small fish like me who helped keep hockey in Edmonton through the 90's.

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#180 JDB
December 29 2009, 05:28PM
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@Robin Brownlee

Brownlee,

I agree that a proper re-build would take, perhaps, as long as 5 years, but do you really think Oilers' fans would tolerate this duration?

It seems to me that this town puts so much pressure on the organization each year to have a winner, that the Oil would be forced into making quicker moves to give the illusion of being closer to success than we actually are. Then again, I suppose that's how we got into this mess to begin with, taking the quick, appease the fans fix of signing Pisani, Horcoff, Penner, et. al, instead of rebuilding slowly and properly.

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#181 GSC
December 29 2009, 05:31PM
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RossCreekNation wrote:

TSN's Darren Dreger just listed off names we've been hearing around these parts on That's Hockey!

Moreau, Pisani, Staios, Souray & Nilsson were all mentioned as being available.

How nice it would be to dump all of that salary...

I wish Gilbert was part of that group, but the organization loooooves him.

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#182 Robin Brownlee
December 29 2009, 05:31PM
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Chris. wrote:

Did these teams go on seven game losing streaks? Did these teams drop to 29th? I'm tired of excuses... and Stauffer must have trouble getting out of bed in the morning. It must suck to be the mouthpiece of an organization that will pay out over $60M to finish dead last in the west.

You're so far off it's funny. If you want to rag on people for issuing free passes to the Oilers front office when it comes to criticism, then set your sights on the beat writers, columnists and TV and radio reporters who don't say boo, not the fartcatchers.

I can tell you this without any doubt because I travelled around the NHL a long, long time and I'm not guessing -- Stauffer is more critical of the Oilers than any broadcaster for a rightsholder I have ever heard.

Stauffer might not be ranting and raving to the degree you might want, or to the same level he did on Total Sports, but he's way more honest in assessing and commenting on the team that pays his salary than any colour guy in the NHL. That's a fact. Framing what he said today with the injury factor isn't letting the Oilers off the hook. That's as case of you being pissed off and only hearing what you want to hear.

It's up to the columnists in town to kick some ass, but until Dan Barnes took his run today that piece hadn't been written by anybody with any juice.

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#183 KenMcC
December 29 2009, 05:34PM
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crash wrote:

Horcoff was a great interview...he understands about the situation with the best player and goalie being out but mentioned how a players career is short and how they always want to win and try to get in the playoffs. He praised the fans of Edmonton for being knowledgable and said Rexall is the best place to play during the playoffs...he understands why the fans are down on the team right now and him in general but talked about how this is one of the great things about the fans here. That they are passionate and know the game. He understands the frustration and mentioned that the passion of the fans during the bad times is equally passionate in a good way during the good times and that's why it's a great place to play....

He was definitely classy all the way and I'm one who believes he should be our 3rd line center

Yes, 3rd Line. Center or defense -- doesn't matter as long as he gets the H-ll off the ice when the first or second line is out there . . . from either team.

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#184 KenMcC
December 29 2009, 05:36PM
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@Robin Brownlee

Hey man,where do I get those bennies?

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#185 Robin Brownlee
December 29 2009, 05:37PM
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JDB wrote:

Brownlee,

I agree that a proper re-build would take, perhaps, as long as 5 years, but do you really think Oilers' fans would tolerate this duration?

It seems to me that this town puts so much pressure on the organization each year to have a winner, that the Oil would be forced into making quicker moves to give the illusion of being closer to success than we actually are. Then again, I suppose that's how we got into this mess to begin with, taking the quick, appease the fans fix of signing Pisani, Horcoff, Penner, et. al, instead of rebuilding slowly and properly.

Fans can either tolerate it -- assuming there's an actual plan to do a rebuild properly and team management lays its cards on the table -- or they can shut the hell up about always having a mediocre team.

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#186 RossCreekNation
December 29 2009, 05:37PM
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@Robin Brownlee

On a side note...

Just curious (if its none of my bee's wax, just tell me so), what your relationship with other writer's in town? Barnes in particular I guess. If I'm not mistaken, you guys were competitors at one point in the paper wars (you may have touched on this on Just A Game a few months back).

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#187 dragon
December 29 2009, 05:39PM
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@Robin Brownlee

as much as I believe DFF it'g good in the long-term, I can help asking you this:

what on earth happened to the team that won 5 in a row? what changed between 5 wins and 7 losses?

or was 5 in a row just a fluke? 'cause I do remember hard work, come-from-behind, hang-on-to-the-lead....

do we have any indication what changed in that locker room so dramatically?

my bet is on recent thecaptainethammoreau's comments in the media...

so, for what's worth, i'd consider gutting this team for a total re-build AFTER i change the leadership and see what that does.

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#188 Chris.
December 29 2009, 05:41PM
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Robin Brownlee wrote:

You're so far off it's funny. If you want to rag on people for issuing free passes to the Oilers front office when it comes to criticism, then set your sights on the beat writers, columnists and TV and radio reporters who don't say boo, not the fartcatchers.

I can tell you this without any doubt because I travelled around the NHL a long, long time and I'm not guessing -- Stauffer is more critical of the Oilers than any broadcaster for a rightsholder I have ever heard.

Stauffer might not be ranting and raving to the degree you might want, or to the same level he did on Total Sports, but he's way more honest in assessing and commenting on the team that pays his salary than any colour guy in the NHL. That's a fact. Framing what he said today with the injury factor isn't letting the Oilers off the hook. That's as case of you being pissed off and only hearing what you want to hear.

It's up to the columnists in town to kick some ass, but until Dan Barnes took his run today that piece hadn't been written by anybody with any juice.

You misunderstood my take. I believe that though Stauffer is glad he works for the Oilers, he would probably be having more fun if he were still ranting on Total sports... At least this season.

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#189 Original Ogden Brother
December 29 2009, 05:41PM
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@ Brownlee

How many NHL GM's take Bobby Ryan over Sam Gagner?

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#190 crash
December 29 2009, 05:41PM
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Chris. wrote:

C'mon Crash. Rating... overvaluing... whatever. Mowzie and Swany have Omark in next season's top six. Chorney is being bandied around here as a regular starting defender next season even though he's a minus 54 in less than a hundred games since turning pro. I argued with people last offseason until I had carpal tunnel sydrom that were convinced that Cogliano was on the cusp of being a thirty goal scorer. The Falcons have lost 15 in a row. Magnas WTF Svensson has just nine goals in 31 games in the SEL of all places... And Taylor Hall. Sweet Taylor Hall. The new messiah should we aquire him by destroying what little respectability this franchise has left... Is Taylor Hall going to walk straight into a bad situation and singlehandedly elevate team scoring, while stemming the huge amount of turnovers? Will he fix the PK, win all the faceoffs and improve our ability to defend down low? I don't think so.

Where did you have Colorado slotted this year? Has Mat Duchene and Ryan O'Reilly made a difference there? Has the emergence of Wojtek Wolski not made a difference....can't the same thing happen here?

How is John Tavares doing this year? Seems to me he's leading all rookies in scoring. Couldn't Taylor Hall do that?

Is it possible that having Taylor Hall, Jordan Eberle and Magnus Svensson here next year could make a difference?

Why not? Is it bad to be hopeful? I don't think it takes 4 yrs to become a playoff team....although the goaltending situation could make it tougher if Khabby remains on long term injury every year.

Since when does finishing last overall destroy respectability? This team has never done that. Washington has, would you say they have no respectability? Didn't think so...that's how you get players like Ovechkin. No one is calling Hall the Messiah other than you in your thread...just an important piece.

Why couldn't a couple of trades be made to obtain players like Barker or Seabrook or Sharp or Hartnell or Horton or Carter or insert names here?

Magnus Svensson is only 18 yrs old playing with men in a pretty good league on a bad team over in Sweden and I do believe he is second in scoring on his team...not bad for an 18 yr old with little help.

Relax Chris...things aren't as bad as you may think

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#191 BadSeed
December 29 2009, 05:41PM
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RB, Let's get one thing straight about Stauffer, he likes to think he's critical but when has he ever acknowledged Lowe's ineptitude? MacT was an easy target & wouldn't ever hurt his chances of landing that plum Oiler's gig. I'm tired of hearing (mostly from him) how he's the most critical guy but the truth is, the media here are a bunch of bootlicks who don't say boo so that's faint praise. Is Lowe going to ground him if he speaks the truth - that is, that Burke was completely right about Lowe?

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#192 Oil Kings 'n' Pretty Things
December 29 2009, 05:42PM
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Original Ogden Brother wrote:

@ Brownlee

How many NHL GM's take Bobby Ryan over Sam Gagner?

58. Robin Brownlee 513 -23

*Listens intently to Brownlee's response*

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#193 crash
December 29 2009, 05:44PM
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Original Ogden Brother wrote:

@ Crash

"As Stauffer said today...take away most teams best player and number one goalie and you would be looking at a bad hockey team.

How about Calgary without Iginla and Kiprusoff

Or Vancouver without Luongo and one of the Sedins

Jersey without Brodeur and Parise

Buffalo without Miller and Vanek

Etc...i think you'll find most teams struggle to make playoffs without their best player and goalie"

Ya I agree (except those teams move from playoff locks to bubble teams without their best forward/goalie)

That's what I'm saying though, why are people shocked about a 15th place team right now?

I don't think people are shocked, I do however think there are some that are really angry that not much was done going into this year.

I do believe most of us want and have wanted since we found out Hemsky went down is a top 2 pick in this years draft.

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#194 crash
December 29 2009, 05:49PM
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Original Ogden Brother wrote:

@ Brownlee

How many NHL GM's take Bobby Ryan over Sam Gagner?

LOL, can't let it go huh?

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#195 RossCreekNation
December 29 2009, 05:50PM
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Svensson with a goal so far tonight against Russia.

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#196 crash
December 29 2009, 05:53PM
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Don't take this as me saying Svensson is the next Messiah...but he has 3 points on the first 3 Sweden goals today against Russia

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#197 Robin Brownlee
December 29 2009, 05:53PM
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BadSeed wrote:

RB, Let's get one thing straight about Stauffer, he likes to think he's critical but when has he ever acknowledged Lowe's ineptitude? MacT was an easy target & wouldn't ever hurt his chances of landing that plum Oiler's gig. I'm tired of hearing (mostly from him) how he's the most critical guy but the truth is, the media here are a bunch of bootlicks who don't say boo so that's faint praise. Is Lowe going to ground him if he speaks the truth - that is, that Burke was completely right about Lowe?

Really? Guess again. Bob went after MacT because he saw him as the problem. Obviously, the problems with this team went well beyond the coach, so if Bob is guilty of anything it's of putting too much focus on the coach.

Landing the Oilers gig? The Oilers came to Bob, not the other way around. He never tempered or shaped his criticism of Lowe or anybody else based on the hope he'd one day land a job with the team. That's a bogus accusation.

Is Lowe going to ground him? You're going to take on Stauffer because he's not leading the charge to have the president of hockey operations for the team that pays his salary fired? Get real. That makes him an ass-kisser?

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#198 GSC
December 29 2009, 05:55PM
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JDB wrote:

Brownlee,

I agree that a proper re-build would take, perhaps, as long as 5 years, but do you really think Oilers' fans would tolerate this duration?

It seems to me that this town puts so much pressure on the organization each year to have a winner, that the Oil would be forced into making quicker moves to give the illusion of being closer to success than we actually are. Then again, I suppose that's how we got into this mess to begin with, taking the quick, appease the fans fix of signing Pisani, Horcoff, Penner, et. al, instead of rebuilding slowly and properly.

A little history lesson from the American Civil War is in order for those who feel that the fans are the problem...

If Abraham Lincoln would have caved to the demands of the numerous Northern dissenters during the war, you would probably be looking at an entirely different map of the United States today (both geographically and demographically). Instead, Lincoln understood that conceding defeat to the South meant the destruction of a nation and continued injustice as a result. Had he listened to the Northern populace, the Confederacy would have won and emancipation would have not occurred. Considering how long it took the US to desegregate the South, that's not a wild claim.

The same can be said for General Robert E. Lee of the Confederacy. One theory (and I tend to agree with it) is that after two years of defensive warfare fought mainly in Virginia, and despite several great Confederate victories, the Southern populace and several influential men in their government demanded a decisive, offensive victory from Lee's army. They were tired of fighting in their own backyard, feeling like Lee and the Rebel army had to take the fight to the North.

Feeling the pressure, Lee marched his army across the Potomac Maryland in the summer of 1863 hoping to secure their support (MD was neutral), and then into Pennsylvania where he met the Union front at Gettysburg on July 1. Despite a decided tactical disadvantage before the battle even began (the Union held the high ground), Lee pushed his army into the heart of the Union corps, hoping his soldiers would find a way. He did this because he felt that this would be decisive blow that the Confederacy craved. Against conventional wisdom, the battle commenced. By July 4, Lee's army was in retreat back to the Potomac, and the Union found new life after the first two years of the war brought them to their knees.

The point is simple: those who are smart enough to stick to conventional wisdom rather than listening to public opinion usually come out victorious in the end. If Kevin Lowe caved to pressure from the EIG and the fans, then shame on him for not knowing better. That goes for Tambellini, or any executive for that matter, who fears the fallout from a rebuild might piss off the fanbase.

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#199 Chris.
December 29 2009, 05:56PM
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@crash

You sound like me from twenty years ago.

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#200 Oil Kings 'n' Pretty Things
December 29 2009, 06:00PM
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GSC wrote:

A little history lesson from the American Civil War is in order for those who feel that the fans are the problem...

If Abraham Lincoln would have caved to the demands of the numerous Northern dissenters during the war, you would probably be looking at an entirely different map of the United States today (both geographically and demographically). Instead, Lincoln understood that conceding defeat to the South meant the destruction of a nation and continued injustice as a result. Had he listened to the Northern populace, the Confederacy would have won and emancipation would have not occurred. Considering how long it took the US to desegregate the South, that's not a wild claim.

The same can be said for General Robert E. Lee of the Confederacy. One theory (and I tend to agree with it) is that after two years of defensive warfare fought mainly in Virginia, and despite several great Confederate victories, the Southern populace and several influential men in their government demanded a decisive, offensive victory from Lee's army. They were tired of fighting in their own backyard, feeling like Lee and the Rebel army had to take the fight to the North.

Feeling the pressure, Lee marched his army across the Potomac Maryland in the summer of 1863 hoping to secure their support (MD was neutral), and then into Pennsylvania where he met the Union front at Gettysburg on July 1. Despite a decided tactical disadvantage before the battle even began (the Union held the high ground), Lee pushed his army into the heart of the Union corps, hoping his soldiers would find a way. He did this because he felt that this would be decisive blow that the Confederacy craved. Against conventional wisdom, the battle commenced. By July 4, Lee's army was in retreat back to the Potomac, and the Union found new life after the first two years of the war brought them to their knees.

The point is simple: those who are smart enough to stick to conventional wisdom rather than listening to public opinion usually come out victorious in the end. If Kevin Lowe caved to pressure from the EIG and the fans, then shame on him for not knowing better. That goes for Tambellini, or any executive for that matter, who fears the fallout from a rebuild might piss off the fanbase.

Sorry for playing devil's advocate, but Lincoln bucked conventional wisdom by advocating freedom for the slaves.

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