Apparently Rob Tychkowski Dislikes Dustin Penner

Jonathan Willis
February 28 2009 11:31AM

Dustin Penner

It probably isn’t a good idea to read Rob Tychkowski’s latest column if you’re at all a fan of Dustin Penner, as I am. An excerpt:

Shut out. Out-shot 17-5 in the second period. And as you looked down at that flea-bitten dog Thursday night you couldn't help wondering if some of those players even care.

Dustin Penner, the NHL poster boy for comfort zones and inconsistency, refused to comment on the state of the team yesterday. "There's other guys in there to talk to," he sniffed as he walked out of the dressing room at Millenium Place. Leaving the unpleasant work for somebody else? Why should his interviews be any different than so many of his games?

Those are some fairly gratuitous shots at Penner, so I thought I’d see how he performed against the Blue Jackets in that 1-0 loss. His NHL.com stats sheet didn’t show anything atrocious – 2 shot (leading all Oilers forwards), 3 shots directed at net (leading all Oilers forwards), 1 hit, 14:27 TOI (behind six other forwards, including Ethan Moreau and Fernando Pisani).

So, I went over to the scoring chances count that Dennis has been logging: 8 chances for, 7 chances against, numbers that put him ahead of his usual linemates from that game (Horcoff and Hemsky).

Then I went over to Vic Ferrari’s Time On Ice tool to see who Penner had played against. Here are the top two defensemen and top three forwards he played against in terms of ice-time vs. Columbus:

Rick Nash – 6.1 minutes Jason Williams – 4.9 minutes Jakub Voracek - 4.2 minutes

Jan Hejda – 7.3 minutes Mike Commodore – 6.8 minutes

So Penner was playing in a power-vs.-power role with Horcoff and Hemsky against Rick Nash’s line for the majority of the evening. His ice-time is only average, but despite that he comes out on top in scoring chances and leads all Oilers forwards in shots and shots directed on net.

With Dustin Penner on the ice, the Oilers directed 15 shots at the Columbus net while only allowing 12 the other way (+3). Of the 16 even-strength shots the Oilers took that reached the net, 9 of them were recorded with Penner on the ice. Let’s contrast that with, say, Ethan Moreau. Moreau was on the ice for 2 shots for and 12 shots against. That’s a 6:1 ratio, folks.

I can understand some anger at Penner; he’s rather indifferent with the media (I’ve seen him shoot down Principe a few times) and he just looks lazy sometimes on the ice. That said, the media was awfully quick to rip him a new one whenever MacTavish sat him, so perhaps Penner has some reasonable resentment. The most important point is that against Columbus Penner wasn’t part of the problem. Just for the record, here is how every player ranked in terms of shots for and against in that game:

Penner: (9/6) +3 Horcoff: (9/8) +1 Cole: (5/4) +1 Stortini: (2/1) +1 Hemsky: (9/9) EV Gagner: (5/5) EV Reddox: (0/1) -1 Nilsson: (3/5) -2 Cogliano: (2/7) -5 Brodziak (0/6) -6 Pisani: (0/8) -8 Moreau (2/12) -10

Gilbert: (10/6) +4 Smid: (6/7) -1 Strudwick: (1/3) -2 Peckham: (4/7) -3 Souray: (6/10) -4 Staios: (5/15) -10

I’d say the problems against Columbus are fairly apparent; obviously you can’t judge a player’s entire contribution by the shot clock but looking at the numbers at the bottom of this list isn't it obvious who wasn’t getting the job done? Since we’re looking at that list, the fact that Steve Staios led all players in ice-time (25:07) probably reflects on the coaching staff, doesn’t it?

I think it’s probably fair to say that Rob Tychowski was venting his personal feelings when he took those shots at Penner, rather than making an unbiased comment on the game against Columbus.

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Jonathan Willis is a freelance writer. He currently works for Oilers Nation, Sportsnet, the Edmonton Journal and Bleacher Report. He's co-written three books and worked for myriad websites, including Grantland, ESPN, The Score, and Hockey Prospectus. He was previously the founder and managing editor of Copper & Blue.
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#1 Bad Seed
February 28 2009, 11:50AM
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I bet Penner never thought he'd be the lightning rod for the teams ills when he signed that fat contract. Of course, signing a 22M deal & then showing up out of shape isn't starting on the right foot either.

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#2 raged
February 28 2009, 11:55AM
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Edmonton Sun is a joke, its ran out of calgary first of all. The Oilers nation crew could take over all the local articles in that sports section and it would be twice as good.

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#3 Zamboni Driver
February 28 2009, 12:09PM
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I am tired of people who are tired of hearing about his salary, quite frankly.

He DESERVES to be held to a higher standard, because of his salary - the fact that he took the big bills in a small market is HIS problem.

An entire city made excuses for him LAST year "He was out of shape, but that was understandable because he played so late in the year the year before...." uhhh....right. Fat and useless after signing a ridiculous contract makes perfect sense.

On the other hand the braintrust should have known what they were getting, a heartless big guy with okay at best hands.

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#4 TonyT
February 28 2009, 12:13PM
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I may be a little biased but I'm reserving my judgement on Penner until we see him in playoff action. I know that may be a while from now but if you saw the Ottawa-Anaheim series, you witnessed a dominant Dustin Penner. At 6'4", 240 lbs. he is the Oilers biggest player (sans MacIntyre) which may or may not be the reason for his regular season struggles, but come playoff time his value will skyrocket. If Gagner and Nilson can't do anything with 3 ft. of space, they definitely won't be able to with half that.

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#5 Robin B
February 28 2009, 12:16PM
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I think it’s probably fair to say that Rob Tychowski was venting his personal feelings when he took those shots at Penner, rather than making an unbiased comment on the game against Columbus.

The whole point of a column is to give your opinion. It's not supposed to be unbiased. While you've jumped to the Columbus game to point out Penner wasn't nearly the worst Oiler, Rob's premise about comfort zones and inconsistency when it comes to Penner is difficult to take issue with.

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#6 I Am The Law - FMNF
February 28 2009, 12:21PM
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What I don't understand, and likely won't since I'm not in Edmonton, is why Penner gets crapped on by almost everyone, while guys like Gagner are given more and more chances.

I believe I've seen some articles on ON lately stating that although Penner isn't worth the $4.25 million he's getting, he's still a valuable player. Me, I agree. I'm a fan of the Flying Fridge, and think he's doing just fine given what he's been put through.

And while I also agree with Bad Seed that showing up out of shape for a new contract isn't the best plan, and definitely puts you a few points down in the goodwill department, that was a year-and-a-half ago, he busted his ass this past summer, and for that, gets kicked off the top line for the Eric Cole Experiment. It further baffled me that people ragged on his offensive production when he was put on the third line. If you are scoring more on the third line than on the first, your entire team is likely screwed up.

So in short: Penner isn't perfect. He's probably not worth the money. He may not be worth the draft picks (but, it seems that first-round picks mean nothing if your scouting sucks, in the opposite case where lower draft picks are just fine if you have good scouting, see: Red Wings, Detroit). But I don't think he's the biggest problem on this team, nor is he even one of the top five problems (FMNF; Eric Cole, will he stay or will he go?; injuries to Vishnovsky and Grebs (baa); the goaltender situation (still); and all of the ice time sunk into the development of Gagner).

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#7 wiggs22
February 28 2009, 12:25PM
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when i watch penner play. it's so weak and there is no energy. when he was on the 4th line with brodz and huggy bear, theyhit and he stood still... and got praised form it.. i didn't see our "biggest" guy on the boards doing the work...he's too valueable. psshhhh in other games, i see a 6'4 245 lbs guy getting pushed off the puck from a guy gagners size. he is useless. he can score goals..i will not deny that, but he's not the one who earns those goals and i personaly don't think we need that on this team.

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#8 Jonathan Willis
February 28 2009, 12:27PM
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Robin B wrote:

The whole point of a column is to give your opinion. It’s not supposed to be unbiased. While you’ve jumped to the Columbus game to point out Penner wasn’t nearly the worst Oiler, Rob’s premise about comfort zones and inconsistency when it comes to Penner is difficult to take issue with.

You're right of course, I was reading it as a game report (which I've always thought was supposed to be unbiased - am I right about that?) when it is an opinion column.

Still, Tychkowski really does give the impression that he's more upset about not getting the time of day from Penner more than anything else.

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#9 Jack "FMNF" Bauer
February 28 2009, 12:35PM
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Unless im reading a different article, I didnt get the impression he was upset because of getting snuffed. I got the impression getting snuffed was the catalyst for the piece.

But its not like he wrote an entire column on how much he hates Penner, it was only a few sentences and a quote.

Its hard to say if Penner is a just a complete jerk off, or if there is history between him and the reporter.

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#10 yo
February 28 2009, 12:36PM
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Apart from an avalanche of stats you must be a real Penner fan to feel that Rob Tych' column is jaundiced. Penner is a powder-puff big man with little pride in his reputation or performance.

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#11 Fiveandagame
February 28 2009, 12:41PM
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If you're going to hang Penner with the noose of inconsistency and comfort zones, if fair is fair this team would be up for a mass execution.

Horcoff, Gagner, Cole, Penner, NILSSON, Pouliot, and Steve Staios should all have the same banner put about their heads.

Horcoff's lack of skill is glaringly obvious this year. He's not a number one center and never will be.

Gagner is 19 and for the most part his defensive game has improved this year, but it seems at the cost of his offensive decision making.

Cole was misused and has not even come close to finding his game in the tough north west division.

Nilsson plays like his dad, only his dad was sheltered on a good team.

Pouliot walks on egg shells.

And Steve Staios should be in the AHL or europe. He has neither the size, skating ability, puck skills or shot to be an NHL defenseman. His contract is more disgusting than dustin Penner's or Horcof's.

If you want to pick on Penner there are a half dozen other guys that should be on the list.

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#12 Fiveandagame
February 28 2009, 12:52PM
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Also for all those Penner bashers, we could always have Joffery Lupul back for 4.25 mil a year.

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#13 yo
February 28 2009, 12:56PM
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Cole is not as effective as he should be either. I wonder if when he was looking good in Carolina in previous seasons he was playing against weaker opposition. Is a better quality of opposition showing up his poor line play? Let's face it he doesn't appear to click with any of his many linemates. The entire team seems to lack chemistry. A good example is a lack of puck support both on the forecheck and backcheck.

The Penner apologists are many. They all acknowledge his lack of everything and they gloss over that and go on to say, well there are lots of others who play the same way. So if that attitude is pervasive how is that not a coaching issue as well as an embedded culture of indifference in the dressing room?

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#14 Fiveandagame
February 28 2009, 01:00PM
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yo wrote:

. So if that attitude is pervasive how is that not a coaching issue as well as an embedded culture of indifference in the dressing room?

And Bingo was his name-o

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#15 Jonathan Willis
February 28 2009, 01:01PM
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Here's the thing with Penner: based on watching him play, he often looks lazy and unmotivated.

However, despite his occasional laziness or lack of motivation, his results have actually been fairly good.

What angers me is how Craig MacTavish will often demote Penner in favour of Erik Cole or Ethan Moreau, despite the fact that Penner's results are clearly superior.

Penner is what he is: a big, offensively capable forward with motivation/consistency issues. He's also been a better option on the first line LW and on the first unit powerplay than anyone else on the roster, and it annoys me that the coaching staff doesn't seem to get it.

Dustin Penner half-trying still performs better than Ethan Moreau trying most of the time.

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#16 rindog
February 28 2009, 01:13PM
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@ Jonathan Willis:

I thinks it falls under the same logistical thinking as watching a guy like Pouliot do absolutely nothing all year, then play horrible for a couple of weeks, get scratched and then get promoted the 2nd line?

Can you explain that one?

Or maybe you can explain how our coaching staff decides to put Grebeshkov with Gilbert for tonight's game?

Why would he put our two best puck moving defensemen in the same pairing?

Why is Staios still with Souray now that Grebsehkov is back? (Did Gilbert and Souray not play well together?)

Has Smid not earned the right to move up to the top 4 (in place of Staios) with his play of late?

MacT even admitted that Staios can not handle the bigger minutes?

Doesn't this make much more sense?

44 77 5 37 43 24

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#17 Dennis
February 28 2009, 01:25PM
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If you want to go Big Picture and opine that 27's ticket is The topic because it hinders overall team building, then you've got a point.

And you also look to the guy that signed him and kudos to Robert T for taking a nice little backhand at Kevin "Vish Throttler" Lowe with his remark in the middle of that piece!

So, yeah, it Does matter how much 27's making because we're operating under a cap system. Still, though, the ice tilts in the right direction when the big guy's on the ice. So, while I do believe he's overpaid, I've never seen a guy take so many shots from the media and I've read the sports online sports sections of both dailies for the last 10 years.

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#18 Dennis
February 28 2009, 01:26PM
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Rindog: Just wanted to add that we're not unlike a lot of other teams in this regard but we really don't have a top four D with 71 gone.

And I think this stretch has shown that he's the best blueliner we have.

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#19 David S
February 28 2009, 01:29PM
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Jonathan Willis wrote:

Dustin Penner half-trying still performs better than Ethan Moreau trying most of the time.

With 90% less stupid penalties too.

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#20 rindog
February 28 2009, 01:33PM
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@ Dennis:

We may not have a legitimate top 4 with Visnovsky out- but I can guarantee you that Stais is NOT the answer to try and fill the hole.

Just another example of a square peg in round hole....

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#21 Sing A Song For SingSing
February 28 2009, 01:34PM
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Big deal. Penner sucks.

Plus that on-ice, chances/shots for & against stat is almost totally bogus IMO.

What does it even prove from Thursday nights game against the BJ's? What does it matter? The whole team was brutal and they ended up losing 1-0 anyways. I was at the game and hardly noticed Penner the entire night.

He had flashes in first period, but that was pretty much it.

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#22 Dennis
February 28 2009, 01:47PM
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Rin: Oh, yeah, I'm with you for sure. First when 37 went down, I called Gregor and opined that we wouldn't fare well moving both 5 and 24 into top four roles because they just couldn't handle it. 24's past his prime and 5's still prone to the dumb mistakes you see on a lesser basis from say even say guys like 44 and 77. And the difference is that even though 5's beginning to lug the puck on a more consistent basis, he's got no vision when it comes to playmaking and I've yet to see him step into the slot to create a chance like say would a 37-77. He's a pure defensive dman who's not overly great in that role but is worth keeping an eye on because he's still played less than 225 GP and right now he's not costing too much.

Sing: Not getting into my chances experiment but Corsi - shots directed towards the net - is a pretty good indication of success.

So just looking at that metric, what the 1-0 loss vs CBJ proves is that the Oilers were in much better shape with 27 on the ice than say 18; I select Moreau because he's also a left-winger.

Not to mention that 27 was matched up against the Jackets best.

All that stuff matters, IMO.

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#23 Jonathan Willis
February 28 2009, 01:51PM
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Sing A Song For SingSing wrote:

Plus that on-ice, chances/shots for & against stat is almost totally bogus IMO.

On the other hand, virtually every team in the NHL seems to track chances for and against. Are they wrong?

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#24 humantorch
February 28 2009, 02:02PM
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raged wrote:

Edmonton Sun is a joke, its ran out of calgary first of all.

Except for, y'know, that huge EDMONTON SUN building over by Capilano Mall?

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#25 W.T.
February 28 2009, 02:25PM
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W.T. votes for Deep Oil and Pokie to take over writing for the Sun. As least then everyone would be informed. As for Penner, W.T. thinks he should enter the Powder Puff races in Lamont this weekend, it fits his on ice performance to a T.

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#26 W.T.
February 28 2009, 02:29PM
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W.T. was wondering if there is an owner of an NHL team that is an owner of another business, oh, say a drug store chain. If that drug store chain was ranked 19th out of 30 drug store chains in the area would the owner be happy? Would the owner change any corporate structure, personal, would the owner change how he delievers his business to his consumer? Would the consumer support stay the same, increase or decrease knowing there are 18 drug store chains that are better?

Or is the owner just happy to be making a huge profit and it don't really matter you all.

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#27 Cam
February 28 2009, 02:31PM
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I agree with Jonathan. I like Penner. He is inconsistent, but he can be a difference maker when he gets some fire in his eyes. He reminds me a lot of Jason Arnott in that way. Jason Arnott was the whipping boy of the fans, but when he decided it was time to play he was awesome out there. He used his body, and his considerable skill to make room and he was a difference maker.

Arnott has only gotten better, to the point where he is a guy that can lead a team, and I think we will find the same thing with Penner. And i think he is the type of guy that could be the difference in the playoffs, and if that proves true he is worth having around.

Besides, we as a team are too small as it is and I am loathe to lose a big skilled forward even if he has some consistency issues and can be kind of rude with guys like Tychkowski. I would be rude too if I read all the things that I have read written by the media.

On another note for all those Reddox haters; he has scored more goals pergame than MAP, Gagner, Nilsson and Brodziak.

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#28 Enter Name Here
February 28 2009, 03:06PM
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D.P. is one of the many young and coming forwards that has come to the OIL after showing great promise with another organization, to only, like the others fall out of favor with the coach, media, and fans. Like Eric Cole, he too will be shipped out only to find success with another team. Now maybe it's just me, but does anybody else find this trend to be a bit unusual???

Can we ask ourselves as to how many young players has this coach, and his coaching apostles that he mentors in the minors, actually developed for the OIL?? Is the coach using the player to their strengths, or is the coach believe that his system used both here and in the minors the be all end all? People will point to the success of Hemsky under MacT, but has he helped Hemsky with his natural talent or smothered it??

Never mind the horrible contract that Lowe assigned to Horcoff, but would Horcoff have been given the opportunity to be a top line centre on any other team but the OIL?? I mean, I'm sure that MacT is the favorite coach to many or most of the player's agents, as he puts plumbers in situations which allow the agents to demand more than what the player's worth! We have a GM (president) that has put great trust in his coach and his decisions, and hence we have the team that we have.

I tend to agree with many that speak to those media that for whatever reason refuse to point a finger at the coach... Given the performance of MacT over the eight plus years, what's to say that he shouldn't have been benched many years ago. Aren't you curious or wouldn't it be refreshing just to see your ticket money spent on what Daum could do with this group of players?

This coach has had more say as to how this team is built as well as that in the minors than I think we would want to believe. Though the puck stops with Lowe, I believe that there is equal blame to be handed out and they both deserve to be sitting on the outside looking in. How many more years can we just simply blame the players for the failures of this team... and other than the deck chairs what has changed over the last eight years? (sorry for the lengthy rant)

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#29 Sing A Song For SingSing
February 28 2009, 03:30PM
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Jonathan Willis wrote:

Sing A Song For SingSing wrote: Plus that on-ice, chances/shots for & against stat is almost totally bogus IMO. On the other hand, virtually every team in the NHL seems to track chances for and against. Are they wrong?

What does it matter how many chances for/against players on your team are getting when they can't even capitalize?

I didn't know that teams track these stats... I doubt it when GM's are about to sign a free agent or are looking at re-signing a player, they take a hard look at the statistics of chances/shots for & against in regards with this player.

Although I do think they are useful to some degree, I think you bloggers and stats junkies on the internet read far too much into them. Hockey, to me, is not a sport which can be broken down into detailed statistical analysis like baseball.

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#30 Loki
February 28 2009, 03:31PM
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David S wrote:

Jonathan Willis wrote: Dustin Penner half-trying still performs better than Ethan Moreau trying most of the time. With 90% less stupid penalties too.

People hate Penner because what he could be with any type of effort. I think a fair comparison would be Bertuzzi, hell Penner has a better start to his career then big Bert. However Bertuzzi would take those stupid/rough penalties utilizing his size, which made him a high tier power forward. Not just a large, medium talented player. I would LOVE Penner to get 100 PIM a season (not for hooking and tripping laziness like the ones he takes now), because he would be hitting. I'll give a standing ovation for an elbow. Every game you'll see him lined up for a decent looking hit - only to either angle the player into the boards or stick his hand up in the air and skate off. It's frustrating, and the difference between him being an overpaid second/third liner and a space making, first line pfw.

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#31 Loki
February 28 2009, 03:33PM
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The qoute didnt work, Willis didnt say then pens thing about Penner, other poster

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#32 Sing A Song For SingSing
February 28 2009, 03:39PM
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@ Loki:

Standing ovation for an elbow eh? Why, so you can see that the man is awake and into the game or something? That's weak. Precisely what is wrong with hockey and it's fans.

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#33 ultimateoiler
February 28 2009, 03:50PM
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Dustin Penner The Enigma on Skates. He could hit! He could score! He could skate harder! He could work in the corners harder. The sad fact is that Dustin Penner does not hit enough , score enough or work in the corners enough. Why is that? As Oiler Fans should we be unhappy with his play or fact that we picked him up from the Ducks and gave a great whopping load of money. The other sad question is what happens when and if he plays for yet another team will he be better like most former Oilers who go to another team?

HE IS AN ENIGMA AND THAT MAKES HIM HARD TO UNDERSTAND OR LIKE AS PLAYER!

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#34 99thOilfan
February 28 2009, 04:04PM
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Hey,

What was the Name of that Oiler... Young Big Guy... He was a first round draft choice for the Oil.. I think he even wore # 7 for a while... Boy ! He was quite a package, all big and slow out there.. NHL All-Rookie Team (1994) Played in NHL All-Star Game 1997 What ever happened to that guy ?

We The FANS , ran him out of town.

He went on to win a cup in 2000. He is now a Captain of His Club...

For Pete Peters sake !

We are Fans ! We should be cheering the boys on ! We should have our Rose Colored Glasses, with the " we'll get them next time ! "

It seems to work for Vancouver....

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#35 99thOilfan
February 28 2009, 04:06PM
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Jason Arnott was drafted by the Edmonton Oilers in the 1st round (7th overall) on June 26 1993.

Just in case you are new, or something !

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#36 Loki
February 28 2009, 04:08PM
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@ Sing A Song For SingSing: Not the Bertuzzi ride him to the ice, or Marchment knees, but if your angry enough to take a swing/chippy play your in the game. Plus it creates space. (see: Messier, Howe) Souray's forearm shivers a good example. You may think its wrong in hockey, but it's a factor. You can play on the line of legality, as long as no intent to cause injury. Torres leap of faith hits illegal - but I bet you cheered.

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#37 rOILty
February 28 2009, 04:09PM
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I personally really like Penner. His problem is he has no one he can play his style of game with, Hemmer/Horc are not power forward/grinders/cyclers like getzlaf and perry are.

Also MacT said just this morning that he has learned time and time again how you have to be patient with young developing players. He doesn't seem to put Pens in that category.

But like they were saying today, we are not in that bad of a position. I still say we shouldn't trade this deadline, becasue what would we give up? most teams either want a scoring forward or an offensive d-man in return, the exact players we are asking for right now.

If this team can get fired up and start executing on all cylinders than I say we are a playoff team.

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#38 rOILty
February 28 2009, 04:13PM
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@ 99thOilfan:

i agree

I hate all this naysaying, when i watch a game i cheer for the oilers not point out all of the mistakes they are making

Does anyone remember how loud Rexall was when we were in the playoffs last, and now it seems dead quiet in that building. Maybe thats the problem; its hard to find motivation when the fans barely have your back and are often at your throats instead.

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#39 R-DAWG
February 28 2009, 04:20PM
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I think the unfortunate part is that the Oiler fans have inherited a team of heartless millionaires!! To single out 1 player consistently is borderline retarded. I'm just as pissed as everyone else, but look at the big picture...if you made millions of dollars to play a game, you would play like a bunch of douches too! Due to the fact that the Oil shit the bed last game, I would expect them to come out for this one...and then promptly shit the bed again next game. Wouldn't you think that this team would get tired of answering the same questions?? We are stuck with Penner and Horcoff for a few more years so get used to it, crappy planning on behalf of last years management will dog us for a year or so yet and until we adopt the Detroit Red Wing philosophy of signing because you like it here and not trying to cash in, we will be dragged through the mud year after year!!

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#40 ultimateoiler
February 28 2009, 04:56PM
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R-DAWG wrote:

I think the unfortunate part is that the Oiler fans have inherited a team of heartless millionaires!! To single out 1 player consistently is borderline retarded. I’m just as pissed as everyone else, but look at the big picture…if you made millions of dollars to play a game, you would play like a bunch of douches too! Due to the fact that the Oil shit the bed last game, I would expect them to come out for this one…and then promptly shit the bed again next game. Wouldn’t you think that this team would get tired of answering the same questions?? We are stuck with Penner and Horcoff for a few more years so get used to it, crappy planning on behalf of last years management will dog us for a year or so yet and until we adopt the Detroit Red Wing philosophy of signing because you like it here and not trying to cash in, we will be dragged through the mud year after year!!

I agree with you that we have inherited a team of heartless millionaires. As for singling out just Dustin Penner, there are many more players on the Oilers who are under-performing.

With all these players under-performing, the Oilers have a coaching problem. I believe with most of these players the right coach could get much more effort out the them. A fresh approach is needed desperately. I would like to see the Oilers management change the coaching staff instead of yet another trade to try and fix the team's woes.However I am not holding my breath that Oilers' management will change and do this. It is going to take Mr. Katz.

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#41 GSC
February 28 2009, 05:01PM
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Yep, throw some more stats out because...well, all you have is stats to go on. Quite frankly Jonathan, it's pretty obvious that you've never skated a shift in your life. And if so, it couldn't have been at a competitive level.

Either that, or you're just choosing to ignore what is blatantly obvious to everyone else who watches Dustin Penner play. He has all the tools to be a monster of a power forward: size, hands, natural skill, offensive instincts. What he doesn't have, and it's all too apparent when watching him play, are essential elements: grit, physicality, effort, motivation, consistency, hustle.

Here are the only numbers that I need to look at to know that Penner is crap: 29 points, $4.25 MIL in salary. End of discussion.

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#42 B-rad
February 28 2009, 05:04PM
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anyone know the lines tonight?

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#43 Librarian Mike
February 28 2009, 05:06PM
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@ GSC: So what you're saying is that having played hockey is a prerequisite to having an opinion? By that rationale, if you've never run for office you have no right to criticize the government.

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#44 Didsdave
February 28 2009, 05:07PM
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A first line centre, Horc to the second line, a minor tweek or two and this team may have some potential. Oh I forgot a coaching staff with little or no previous ties to Oilers.

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#45 Wej
February 28 2009, 05:15PM
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This is a perfect example of how stats are misleading. Penner was INVISIBLE against Columbus.

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#46 rindog
February 28 2009, 05:22PM
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@ GSC:

And he hasn't even completed his 3rd season in the league.

Should he have said "no" the Lowe's offer?

I am sure he knew he wasn't ready for that kind of contract - but I doubt any human being alive would have turned it down.

This is a guy that wasn't even drafted into the NHL and has been forced into a first line NHL role.

Do you really expect him to be dominant player right now?

You can be mad at Lowe for giving him the money but I suggest you forget about his salary and focus on his development as a young player.

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#47 rindog
February 28 2009, 05:23PM
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@ Wej:

Wej wrote:

This is a perfect example of how stats are misleading. Penner was INVISIBLE against Columbus.

As opposed to which other stand out players?

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#48 Jonathan Willis
February 28 2009, 05:33PM
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Wej wrote:

This is a perfect example of how stats are misleading. Penner was INVISIBLE against Columbus.

That's probably because he played less than MacTavish's two favorite LW's - Ethan Moreau and Erik Cole.

And no, I'm not mistaken on that - Craig MacTavish bumped Cole back to 1st line LW.

GSC wrote:

Yep, throw some more stats out because…well, all you have is stats to go on. Quite frankly Jonathan, it’s pretty obvious that you’ve never skated a shift in your life. And if so, it couldn’t have been at a competitive level. Either that, or you’re just choosing to ignore what is blatantly obvious to everyone else who watches Dustin Penner play. He has all the tools to be a monster of a power forward: size, hands, natural skill, offensive instincts. What he doesn’t have, and it’s all too apparent when watching him play, are essential elements: grit, physicality, effort, motivation, consistency, hustle. Here are the only numbers that I need to look at to know that Penner is crap: 29 points, $4.25 MIL in salary. End of discussion.

Right.... have a gander some time and look up who the Minnesota Wild hired as their director of hockey operations.

As a matter of fact, I have played hockey, but I don't think that it's neccessary to have played professional hockey to understand the game. It's not rocket science.

Incidentally, of that list of six things, how many did Todd Bertuzzi have in his prime in Vancouver? Grit - OK, physicality - yes, effort - occasionally, motivation - sometimes, though he floated, consistency - god no, hustle - rarely. Yet, most consider him to have been at the very least a good power forward.

You know who does have all those elements? Ethan Moreau. Unfortunately, Moreau doesn't have a top-end (or really, even medium-end) offensive game, and he does have a penchant for stupid penalties.

As for why I toss out the numbers, I do it because I like to back up my opinion with evidence. I could have said that "Dustin Penner wasn't the problem in Columbus because I thought he played a good game", but "I thought he played a good game" holds relatively little weight. Much like your comment.

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#49 yo
February 28 2009, 05:35PM
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Let's be totally honest here, Penner should be named Casper.

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#50 Jasmine
February 28 2009, 05:37PM
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Terry Jones ran Poti out of town. He's with the Sun. Rob Tychkowski is trying to run Penner out of town. I'm sick of this crap.

The other day Ludzik on the score called Penner a sloth. What right to people in the media have to call players names.

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