A Quick Dustin Penner Question

Jonathan Willis
March 09 2009 01:46PM

Dustin Penner

There are a lot of people out there who don’t like Dustin Penner. “Lazy” is a word that gets tossed around a lot, although “inconsistent” “unmotivated” and even “fat” get used sometimes too. I decided I’d take a quick look at how the first line of Ales Hemsky and Shawn Horcoff have performed this season with and without Dustin Penner.

I decided to use Vic Ferrari’s Time On Ice tool, which scans NHL shift charts, to compile the results for the first line with and without Dustin Penner.

With Dustin Penner

  • 21 goals for, 5 goals against (+16)
  • 173 shots for, 109 shots against (+64)

Without Dustin Penner

  • 9 goals for, 10 goals against (-1)
  • 281 shots for, 250 shots against (+31)

I really didn’t like the Dustin Penner offer sheet; I place great value on draft picks, and felt that Penner was too much of a question mark for such a big offer. That said, I do think that Penner’s a useful NHL player who has been made the scapegoat far too much on a team with multiple problems.

My question for those of you who don’t like Dustin Penner: Why is the first line so much better with Penner than without him?

74b7cedc5d8bfbe88cf071309e98d2c3
Jonathan Willis is a freelance writer. He currently works for Oilers Nation, the Edmonton Journal and Bleacher Report. He's co-written three books and worked for myriad websites, including Grantland, ESPN, The Score, and Hockey Prospectus. He was previously the founder and managing editor of Copper & Blue.
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#51 callighenfan
March 09 2009, 03:17PM
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@ CurtisS:

With a coach with long-standing ties to the organization? In a heated market? Who played a hard-nosed style himself, but has a hard time getting the most out of his undersized, speedy, skill-based team?

No, can't say it rings a bell.

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#52 Matt N
March 09 2009, 03:17PM
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@ Jonathan Willis:

You mentioned that there was very little chance of getting a legitimate answer. Here is an exercise for you straight from the highschool debate team. Start with the assumption that Penner sucks and try to support it the best you can. Seems like an interesting challenge.

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#53 Jonathan Willis
March 09 2009, 03:19PM
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@ Matt N:

I'd roll with his points record in his last ten games. I'd also highlight his powerplay point totals.

Beyond that, I'd focus a ton on quotes from MacTavish. And hope like hell nobody looked at his underlying numbers.

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#54 Librarian Mike
March 09 2009, 03:19PM
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@ callighenfan:

I don't have a link, but apparently there was a: 'FCN le F' movement out there this season.

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#55 Wanye Gretz
March 09 2009, 03:23PM
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Librarian Mike wrote:

@ callighenfan: I don’t have a link, but apparently there was a: ‘FCN le F’ movement out there this season.

Well played.

*claps once so loudly spring arrives immediately*

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#56 Peter Pan
March 09 2009, 03:24PM
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Penner Haters... Relax. This is a perimeter team. Penner's size allows him to play the inside and front of the net. Yes he is a lazy MOFO, but his size is an asset. The size of his heart though is a different story.

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#57 Word
March 09 2009, 03:24PM
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Everyone seems to apply the same logic to disliking Penner as our boy Mac does: "Numbers be damned, he doesn't look like he's trying as hard as Reddox."

It's weird to see so many of the Nation flash their FMNF like a Northlands gang sign and then actually buy into the theory that a lack of Jam means a player should be Toast.

I don't mind criticising Penner's lack of breakfast condiment, but why does he need to take a beating for the fact that, although he might be the best option at LW, it doesn't actually make him a legitimate first line player?

Is Penner really the person we should be blaming for the Oilers not having a true first line leftwing? Can we also blame him for the fact that we don't have a true first line Center?

I know I do.

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#58 Librarian Mike
March 09 2009, 03:27PM
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@ Peter Pan: What was it they said about Bonsignore? He's 6'2" but he plays like he's 2'6".

I like Penner though. Granted, he is overpaid but is that his fault? No. We as fans beat players like him down to a nub and then we wonder why no one wants to play here.

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#59 OilW30
March 09 2009, 03:27PM
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What's the TOI for that line w/ & w/o Penner?

Everyone is so critical of Penner because we all think he could be so much better--even if he is doing fine this year. That contract gives the expectation that he should become a first-rate power forward.

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#60 Jonathan Willis
March 09 2009, 03:31PM
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OilW30 wrote:

What’s the TOI for that line w/ & w/o Penner?

That I don't know - sorry, if I were a little better with programming I would figure it out, but as it is I have to rely on others.

Check out this chart, though. It shows Penner's performance with/without every player on the roster, as well as the teammate's performance with/without Penner. It includes time on ice.

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#61 DBO
March 09 2009, 03:36PM
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@ Jonathan Willis: Wow. That's all I can say (almost). Wow. Never been a huge stats guy, but Hemsky seems to depend on Penner way more then i thought. And Gagner's numbers with Penner are solid as well. Someone get the abucus out of macT's hands and introduce him to the wonder of the Al Gore. Numbers don't lie (and yes i know they don't tell the whole story, but damn).

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#62 Charlie
March 09 2009, 03:46PM
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Penner's a beauty. I love how MacT can call out and devalue his players so easily. I'm sure that's what Slats did with Gretzky behind closed doors in the 80s.

SLATS: "Ok Gretz, you're the worst player ever, now go get 6 points tonight or you're riding the pine, and I'll call you out and embarrass you in the media!"

99: "Ok Coach! Good Talk!"

That's the sort of motivation that'll keep attracting the never ending line up of top-six free agents that are knocking down the door to play in Edmonton.

(Opens door, looks for line, crickets chirp, sees Anson Carter running to the door from a distance, slams door).

FMNF

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#63 Didsdave
March 09 2009, 03:46PM
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High salary aside, anyone that has taken as much critisism from MacT and the fans as Penner has, would have a hard time going all out. MacT has strange ways. He insists on putting square pegs in round holes

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#64 yo
March 09 2009, 03:47PM
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I think it's a lame fall-back argument to throw the fans under the bus. The fans have paid for the privilege to call it as they see when it comes to on-ice performance of various players/coaches. That doesn't mean they are always right or that some reporters have much more accurate inside information.

Penner and others who have preceeded him are disinterested and unprofessional athletes. Penner became a desperate coach's public lightning rod. Penner is a player MacT knew the fans were also disatisfied with regarding his performance. MacT figured he could rip Penner a new one publicly and keep the heat off himself. Likewise with Nilsson. There were 20 other players who have gone missing on any given night and were certaining deserving of an ass-chewing.

MacT is no hero of mine. His performance in this last year has undermined my opinion of him. In any other organization MacT would have been fired long ago. The Oilers managerial philosophy is to throw another player on the fire to protect MacT. This is a sick organization.

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#65 callighenfan
March 09 2009, 03:48PM
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@ Wanye Gretz: @ Librarian Mike:

I had to do a little research to get the joke, but I LMFAO once I did, so I'd say it was worth it.

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#66 Charlie
March 09 2009, 04:02PM
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Can anyone tell me if there's some sort of cap in coaches salaries? Could Katz hypothetically get Carbonneau down here to replace / work with MacT? He seems to know what to do with power plays and skilled players, which must be nice.

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#67 willy fisterbotom
March 09 2009, 04:04PM
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I think horcoff should bear the brunt of the fans ire. Penner as heartless as he plays is still on pace to match his goal totals from last year.Right now horc does nothing to constitute being on the top line besides wining faceoffs. Kyle broadziak could do the same job horc does right now.

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#68 Dave
March 09 2009, 04:05PM
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Blog log wrote:

Not sure if anyone has mentioned it, but the Oilers’ website is reporting that Penner will likely be scratched tomorrow with Nilsson dressing in his stead.

Gregor had it on another post around noon...I love this site because it beats the Oilers' own site lots of time.

FYI...JW I like your numbers, but you seemed satisfied to say, Penner is the best option, so who cares how lazy and disinterested he looks.

IF you don't think his uninspired play affects his teammates negatively I think you might be overlooking that element of it. Of course it is hard to gauge, but his lack of commitement can't sit well with his teammates.

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#69 Robin Brownlee
March 09 2009, 04:09PM
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"I think a lot of people look at the salary and the average based on what he was making last year, then they see it as a pretty big raise. "The way I see it, if Dustin continues to score goals at the clip that he's been, at some point in this contract, he's going to be highly underpaid." -- Kevin Lowe, Aug. 3, 2007

Do tell, when do Bargain Days begin?

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#70 misfit
March 09 2009, 04:10PM
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Penner has certainly been the best option for the top line this year, but I think that speaks more to the alternatives than it does him being a good option for the top line. I've always seen him as sort of the "least worst" 1st line LW on the team. Hopefully the arrival of O'Sullivan changes that (assuming he gets a couple of shifts with them).

Another thing that would be helpful would be to see Penner's results with and without Horcoff and Hemsky. I'd guess they'd be down a bit (which I'd expect they should be), but the interesting thing to see would be by how much.

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#71 druds
March 09 2009, 04:11PM
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Hey Jonathan that Stats Analysis site is awesome and pretty well summs up the Oilers problems...bottom of the league in takeaways...top five in the league for giveaways...bottom of the league in hits. too damn soft and the stats back it up

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#72 Jason Gregor
March 09 2009, 04:17PM
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JW,

Do you think Penner makes Hemsky better?

And when a guy has no points in nine games do you keep him on your first line?

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#73 DBO
March 09 2009, 04:22PM
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@ Jason Gregor: Good show today gregor. But look at the link above that jonathan had about how guys play with Penner. Hemsky is so much better it's scary.

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/200809players/player0604.php

he is our best choice at this time. if they want to run with o'Sullivan or kotalik, then fine. But no way he should be benched.

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#74 Dennis
March 09 2009, 04:24PM
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I think it makes sense to sit out 27 because his salary isn't a sunk cost and everytime we sit him out, we save money on his contract. This will help us when we contact Dr. Brown and go back in time and try for a do-over with Ryan Smyth.

Seriously, though, as JW has shown, the 10-83 duo are better Without 27 than they are With him so I think it makes a lot of sense to push him further down the line-up. And by extension, fellow LW's like 12-85 etc etc are all better options so it's about time MacT sat him down.

RB: I don't know what happened to you when you were sick, but you're better off for it;)

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#75 Wanye Gretz
March 09 2009, 04:25PM
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Charlie wrote:

(Opens door, looks for line, crickets chirp, sees Anson Carter running to the door from a distance, slams door).

bahahahahahahahahahahah

BEST FREE AGENT RELATED COMMENT EVER

@ callighenfan: The research makes the learning go!

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#76 Jack "FMNF" Bauer
March 09 2009, 04:31PM
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http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=270498&lid=sublink03&lpos=headlines_main

"Mike Van Ryn's injury riddled first season in Toronto has come to an end.

Maple Leafs' head coach Ron Wilson told reporters Monday that the blue liner had suffered a torn medial collateral ligament and would miss the remainder of the season.

The London, Ontario native suffered the injury early in the first period of Saturday's victory over the Oilers when his knee appeared to buckle underneath him. He was helped off the ice and did not return."

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#77 dubya
March 09 2009, 04:31PM
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Jason Gregor wrote:

JW, Do you think Penner makes Hemsky better? And when a guy has no points in nine games do you keep him on your first line?

I'm not JW, but....

Absolutely Penner makes Hemsky better. Hemsky averages 1.26 GF/20 minutes TOI when on the ice with Penner, and 0.65 GF/20 minutes TOI when apart from Penner. Big difference, no? He may be lazy, but that big butt opens up room for his linemates.

In response to the second part, I have no objection with giving the new guys a crack with Hemsky, but taking Penner all the way out of the lineup is silly. He's a better option on ANY line than several other players.

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#78 Rob
March 09 2009, 04:34PM
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being, marked by, or displaying behavior characterized by the expression of negative feelings, resentment, and aggression in an unassertive passive way (as through procrastination and stubbornness) — passive–aggressive noun

There are two ways a player can respond to public humiliation. Get mad as hell and go out to perform at another level to prove everyone wrong. The other way is to respond in a passive aggressive manner.

I think Penner is responding in the second scenario. He may be finished as a productive Oiler player. He has not only tuned out the coaching staff it would seem he couldn't care less about his teammates or fans. He may be done as an NHL'er with any credibility at all.

Who will give this guy a contract again? For what he could be signed for on his next contract there will be much cheaper and younger players available at that time. He was benched by the Ducks coach Randy Carlyle several times for disinterested play and not doing what the coaches told him to do. Who scouted this guy for the Oil? Someone who should be fired...that's who.

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#79 Harlie Chuddy
March 09 2009, 04:36PM
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wow...just watched the Penner (oiler.com) interview from today..he looks like he wants OUT. Has anyone heard if he has asked for a trade?

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#80 GSC
March 09 2009, 04:39PM
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It's not about Penner simply keeping his head above water and being serviceable, it's about him needing to be a factor because of his size and skill. He's too often a passenger and not a producer.

Because of that, he's being overpaid and in the salary cap world that can't fly. He's not a garbage hockey player, but he isn't doing nearly enough to earn his wage.

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#81 Word
March 09 2009, 04:41PM
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Dennis wrote:

I think it makes sense to sit out 27 because his salary isn’t a sunk cost and everytime we sit him out, we save money on his contract. This will help us when we contact Dr. Brown and go back in time and try for a do-over with Ryan Smyth. Seriously, though, as JW has shown, the 10-83 duo are better Without 27 than they are With him so I think it makes a lot of sense to push him further down the line-up. And by extension, fellow LW’s like 12-85 etc etc are all better options so it’s about time MacT sat him down. RB: I don’t know what happened to you when you were sick, but you’re better off for it;)

1.21 Gigawatts.

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#82 Harlie Chuddy
March 09 2009, 04:45PM
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Wanye Gretz wrote:

Charlie wrote: (Opens door, looks for line, crickets chirp, sees Anson Carter running to the door from a distance, slams door). bahahahahahahahahahahah BEST FREE AGENT RELATED COMMENT EVER @ callighenfan: The research makes the learning go!

Im ROLFING all over myself!

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#83 Jorge
March 09 2009, 05:04PM
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Charlie wrote: (Opens door, looks for line, crickets chirp, sees Anson Carter running to the door from a distance, slams door). blockquote> I laughed out loud in my University class when I read that. Teacher stopped talking and gave me a drity look. Funniest comment I've read on here
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#84 Jorge
March 09 2009, 05:05PM
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Jorge wrote:

Charlie wrote: (Opens door, looks for line, crickets chirp, sees Anson Carter running to the door from a distance, slams door). blockquote> I laughed out loud in my University class when I read that. Teacher stopped talking and gave me a drity look. Funniest comment I’ve read on here

and I messed up the quote

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#85 misfit
March 09 2009, 05:24PM
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Coaching is both art and science. The science tells you that playing Horcoff and Hemsky against the other team's top lines will give you the best chance to outscore your opponents. It also tells you that playing Penner with them increases their odds of doing just that. The art tells you that sometimes you've got to sit a player, or reduce his icetime despite those facts (because he's not putting in the effort, for example).

I'm sure MacT knows Penner is the best option for the top line, as well as the #1 powerplay unit. But how can you expect to get a consistant effort from the rest of the team when you're giving the cherry roles to a player who doesn't seem to give a shit half the time? And what better motivational tool does a coach have than icetime? What else does he have control over, for that matter?

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#86 Slurve
March 09 2009, 05:25PM
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Dustin Penner did not asked for the overtop raise generously given. So after that we expect him to perform in his first year & thereafter as a (guessing) 4.5 mil per yr player would be. It is like making a clydesdale perform like a thoroughbred. Plus his history of being physical was not his forte while in Anaheim and major fighting or penalty minutes did not reflect that notion. Sure he is a big size of a man but so is Holmstrom. I don't know why the Oilers expect anything different of Penner then be a big body in front of net and score his 20-25 goals. So we continue to punish him for not meeting the Oilers expectation as a first line scorer with lots of physicalness. Well, then we are looking at the wrong end of the gift horse. Oiler made a choice to sign him at a higher price in order to pry him from Anaheim; and instead of playing Penner to his expectation, the Oilers expected Penner to play to the expectation of a player making that salary figure...

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#87 Bob Arctor
March 09 2009, 05:29PM
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Robin Brownlee wrote:

“I think a lot of people look at the salary and the average based on what he was making last year, then they see it as a pretty big raise. “The way I see it, if Dustin continues to score goals at the clip that he’s been, at some point in this contract, he’s going to be highly underpaid.” – Kevin Lowe, Aug. 3, 2007 Do tell, when do Bargain Days begin?

Bargain days begin Fall 2009 when someone picks up Penner on re-entry waivers and pays him 2.2 million/yr to score 25 goals.

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#88 MikeP
March 09 2009, 05:51PM
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HemmersaJemmer wrote:

The problem with this type of thinking is that you are rewarding Dustin Penner for basically just standing in front of the net.

So? Nobody else will, nobody else seems to have either the balls to stand there while Souray's whipping it at the net at 100+mph, the size to take the checks in the kidneys - and if you think he's just standing there while the opposing D goes "oh well, he's fat, he can't score, I'll leave him alone" then you need to open your eyes - or the tenacity to keep going back there.

So. When your team's best scoring options on the power play is the point shot or the pass across the seam to the forward standing at the opposite side of the net, who do you call? Ales Kotalik standing in the corner? Don't think so.

Do you want the *ideal* player playing forward on the PP? Or do you want the player the coach *has*?

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#89 Deep Oil
March 09 2009, 05:56PM
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Charlie wrote:

Can anyone tell me if there’s some sort of cap in coaches salaries? Could Katz hypothetically get Carbonneau down here to replace / work with MacT? He seems to know what to do with power plays and skilled players, which must be nice.

No cap for coaches - outside the CBA - see Detroit for the winning model. Don't see Rexall sports seeing a problem here if they make the post season. Difference between this season and last is that the oil were on fire for the last 20 and missed the playoffs, this year they have an identity crisis and may make the playoffs.

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#90 Deep Oil
March 09 2009, 06:01PM
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DBO wrote:

TSN reporting that Carbonneau fired. If they can fire Carbonneau with a better record and a ton of injuries, why can’t we fire MacT?

WE can never fire MACT - this is not a group decision. This is a decision made by Lowe carried out by Tambo. Slim and none at this point in the season.

Gainey is under extreme pressure to win the cup this year. MacT is under extreme pressure to make the playoffs this year.

Tale of two cities - expectations.

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#91 Smokin' Ray
March 09 2009, 06:04PM
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I am not much of a stat guy. I watch and see what I like and dislike. I don't use stats to help judge. I don't blame any/all (well about 8% of the blame) of the teams losing on Penner. I even don't blame him for his contact that he signed. I don't care.

I do care that he is slow and lazy. I do care that he is wasting a roster spot because he is a lollygagger and can't be bothered to actualy try. And I do care because I spend my money on this team, therefore I/We the OilersNation own this team and we can expect anything more than what Mr. Penner can provide. We all should.

Maybe a bus ride in the minors would have been good for him.

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#92 Wanye Gretz
March 09 2009, 06:07PM
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Deep Oil wrote:

Don’t see Rexall sports seeing a problem here if they make the post season.

Mark my words: If the Oilers don't make the playoffs we are going to raise holy thunder on here for the entire offseason. We will write songs, we will make videos. Letters will be written, email spammers will be created flooding Oilers inboxes. Protests will be held, bloody insurgencies will be plotted and acronyms will be developed at a prodigious rate.

It's all we can do as fans and I will personally treat it as a full time summer job. Bear in mind the Nation almost quadrupled in size last summer because of the amount of content and commentary on here. Imagine the stuff that will come out of this offseason with our larger roster and all the pissed off Citizens' involvement.

Smokin' Ray wrote:

I spend my money on this team, therefore I/We the OilersNation own this team

You're damn right Ray.

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#93 Deep Oil
March 09 2009, 06:08PM
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Slurve wrote:

Dustin Penner did not asked for the overtop raise generously given. So after that we expect him to perform in his first year & thereafter as a (guessing) 4.5 mil per yr player would be. It is like making a clydesdale perform like a thoroughbred. Plus his history of being physical was not his forte while in Anaheim and major fighting or penalty minutes did not reflect that notion. Sure he is a big size of a man but so is Holmstrom. I don’t know why the Oilers expect anything different of Penner then be a big body in front of net and score his 20-25 goals. So we continue to punish him for not meeting the Oilers expectation as a first line scorer with lots of physicalness. Well, then we are looking at the wrong end of the gift horse. Oiler made a choice to sign him at a higher price in order to pry him from Anaheim; and instead of playing Penner to his expectation, the Oilers expected Penner to play to the expectation of a player making that salary figure…

This just opens up a can of worms on the leadership and failure to plan via GM LOWE, now DOHO. Why would someone pay sports car money for a car that refuses to leave the driveway.... now MACT has parked 27 based on multiple factors.

As per Gregor's comments....

1) Bench 27 2) Embarrass 27 3) Motivate 27

At what point is MACT given a free pass on this $4mm debacle... does Penner get benched if his salary was $2mm - this is a roster issue and LOWE has to man up here.

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#94 W.T.
March 09 2009, 06:23PM
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@ Deep Oil: W.T. suggest Deep Oil is bang on. Everyone forgets who is behind this whole mess, KLowe-DOHO. Everyone can say whatever they wish, but the Oil record will not change until DOHO is gone. You wish proof, just look at the Oil record since he has taken over. Enough said.

Chant at next Oil game:

Klowe must go! Klowe must go!

Or will you get kicked out for saying that. Maybe Rexall should have initials USSR.

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#95 Deep Oil
March 09 2009, 06:30PM
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Wanye Gretz wrote:

Deep Oil wrote: Don’t see Rexall sports seeing a problem here if they make the post season. Mark my words: If the Oilers don’t make the playoffs we are going to raise holy thunder on here for the entire offseason. We will write songs, we will make videos. Letters will be written, email spammers will be created flooding Oilers inboxes. Protests will be held, bloody insurgencies will be plotted and acronyms will be developed at a prodigious rate. It’s all we can do as fans and I will personally treat it as a full time summer job. Bear in mind the Nation almost quadrupled in size last summer because of the amount of content and commentary on here. Imagine the stuff that will come out of this offseason with our larger roster and all the pissed off Citizens’ involvement.

My California Google sources state that ON has over 3500 unique visitors per day. Unfortunately, this small army does not equate to change - it is more of an unwanted, unapproved media entity that is subject to the watch via Oiler security and communications...

This online temper tantrum is a rebellion against MSM, the more pressure the better - but Katz has to clean house with Tambo the last man standing.

Change would occur if the Oilers fail to make the playoffs and the Oiler sheep CANCEL their seats. This takes guts to give up access to your social habits, corporate schmooze angle - in a cold northern city.

Change would occur if Bell, Ford, ATB, Molsons, COKE, and other sponsors stop supporting this non winner.

Change would occur if the players performed at or near expectations and listened to the coach.

Change would occur if the coach had a different message after 8 years of the same excuses.....

Oilers directly or indirectly control a MAJORITY of all media in Edmonton.

Control means to make media think twice prior to hitting send. This is known as behavior modification - access and denying future access is always the hammer in regards to content.

Fact: Oilers Management are arrogant - only major league ticket in town. Morons? Maybe and Probably

Oilers wish to control ALL MEDIA 24-7.

This wizard of oz presentation with no one questioning Lowe, an absent local owner, and a contract cap situation that sets up the coach for failure for the next 2 years is sad. The talk of a new building seems like a fairytale given the dire situation of a non winner - making the post season gives the sheep hope and that is too far and few these days.

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#96 Deep Oil
March 09 2009, 06:32PM
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W.T. wrote:

@ Deep Oil: W.T. suggest Deep Oil is bang on. Everyone forgets who is behind this whole mess, KLowe-DOHO. Everyone can say whatever they wish, but the Oil record will not change until DOHO is gone. You wish proof, just look at the Oil record since he has taken over. Enough said. Chant at next Oil game: Klowe must go! Klowe must go! Or will you get kicked out for saying that. Maybe Rexall should have initials USSR.

Stating LOWE MUST GO is subject to the approval of Northlands and Rexall Sports. Bad optics for the sheep watching on television or stealing the feed via the internet.

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#97 jeanshorts
March 09 2009, 06:38PM
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Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Let me get this straight. Last time the Oilers played the Habs, the Oilers scored more goals in one game then they had in the previous month in total. Bob Gainey fires Montreal head coach Guy Carbonneau on Monday. The Oilers play the Habs on Tuesday.

COINCIDENCE!!!!!!

I think it's safe to say we're through the looking glass here people!!!!!!!!!!!

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#98 Deep Oil
March 09 2009, 06:39PM
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Wanye Gretz wrote:

Deep Oil wrote: Don’t see Rexall sports seeing a problem here if they make the post season. Mark my words: If the Oilers don’t make the playoffs we are going to raise holy thunder on here for the entire offseason. We will write songs, we will make videos. Letters will be written, email spammers will be created flooding Oilers inboxes. Protests will be held, bloody insurgencies will be plotted and acronyms will be developed at a prodigious rate. It’s all we can do as fans and I will personally treat it as a full time summer job. Bear in mind the Nation almost quadrupled in size last summer because of the amount of content and commentary on here. Imagine the stuff that will come out of this offseason with our larger roster and all the pissed off Citizens’ involvement. Smokin’ Ray wrote: I spend my money on this team, therefore I/We the OilersNation own this team You’re damn right Ray.

Sounds like you watch the Wesjet commercials way too much.

You are a line item on a line item within Rexall sports - do you think Katz even knows when the next game is....LOWE owns the team in spirit - toys for boys....

Revenue from tickets is possibly 60% with television and corporate partnerships the rest.

Sometimes a good customer cleanse is best for all involved - new sheep - it was nice to see that the Oil are nervous and calling the fan base to see if they are renewing... shows that there is a concern to cash flow.

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#99 speeds
March 09 2009, 06:47PM
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Smokin' Ray wrote:

I do care that he is slow and lazy. I do care that he is wasting a roster spot because he is a lollygagger and can’t be bothered to actualy try. And I do care because I spend my money on this team, therefore I/We the OilersNation own this team and we can expect anything more than what Mr. Penner can provide. We all should. Maybe a bus ride in the minors would have been good for him.

In what way do you mean that you "own the team"?

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#100 W.T.
March 09 2009, 07:05PM
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@ Deep Oil: W.T. would like to see R.B. or J.G. take your points Deep Oil and ask KLOWE about them. Come on you all, can you imagine the following this thread would have????

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