Has Tambo eased Souray's fears?

Jason Gregor
April 16 2009 10:49AM

tambopewpew

Now that MacTavish is gone, the focus will switch to who replaces him and which players will not be part of the Tambellini era. Since being announced as GM last summer, Tambellini has been very bland. He was careful with his words, protective of his players and coaches and at times you needed to put a spoon under his nose to see if he was breathing. He showed no emotion until yesterday.

Tambellini opened his press conference with a five-minute statement that was thoughtful, well-planned, to the point and filled with raw emotion. I sat in the front row and saw a side of Tambellini we'd never seen since he landed in Edmonton.

After calmly telling a packed conference room that MacTavish wouldn’t be back, he quickly turned his focus to the players.

“One thing I want to make clear, is that because we are changing our coach and moving in a different direction this DOES NOT absolve the players from their performance, or lack there of. “Do we need to address some of our personnel? Obviously we do. When I think about the Oilers and what they represent and the things that are important to the Oilers, and why there has been success here at times lately, it’s because of a passion, because of a commitment, because of a sacrifice to do anything to win. That’s the part that was the hardest to compete against the Oilers. “People say that maybe we weren’t gritty enough as a team. I agree with that. Do we need to get stronger? Yes we do. The job now is to think about how much of that can we get from what we have now, make that assessment, and if we don’t have that internally then how do we acquire it. One thing I will not put up with is an unemotional game, where we can’t dictate the outcome of the game by energy. “We have some good pieces in place here. We have some good young players, and some good veterans, that hopefully want to be a part of this going forward. But I can tell you things are going to change as far as expectations and preparation from the player’s standpoint and from us (management) to get better for the next step.”

When Tambellini spoke these words and later about MacTavish, his voice and body language showed energy, fire, passion, and frankly a pissed-off attitude. It was refreshing. It was nice to see Tambellini show that finally he is the leader of the ship.

Make no mistake; yesterday it became clear to everyone that this is now his team. He will choose the coach. He will have a major say in which players stay, and who goes. And to me he challenged his veterans to get on board, but also accept that the young kids need to spread their wings and become more of a factor.

NHL experience behind the bench

Near the end of his presser, I asked Tambellini if the next coach needed previous NHL head coaching experience.

“Not necessarily, but he would have to be a special person that you are confident in to walk in the room and command the respect, and have the knowledge that you felt was ready to compete against NHL situations. I think there could be opportunities for some people to be able to do that.”

We have seen that occur recently with Brent Sutter, Bruce Boudreau, Todd Mclellan, Cory Clouston and Dan Bylsma, but I don’t see that happening here. Tambellini will want someone with previous NHL experience.

Pat Quinn, Marc Crawford, Peter Laviolette, Guy Carbonneau, Tom Renney and Bob Hartley are all available. From talking to some people within the organization I don’t think it is a must that Tambellini has a long, or short, standing relationship with his next head coach.

He knows what type of coach he is looking for.

“I have a good idea of the type of coach I’m looking for. It's going to be somebody that matches up with the type of play we want to see here. We want an aggressive type of play, an emotional team, a team that isn’t standing on their heels, we want a team to be proactive because we have people here with skill, and I want to see it.”

Cross Jacques Lemaire off the list.

The other previous six could all fit the mold. Quinn, Hartley and Crawford are all fiery behind the bench, and they coach an up-tempo style. They also like their teams to have an array of sheet disturbers who play with an edge.

MacTavish rarely liked his team to be in your face. Even when the Oilers outworked the opposition, they rarely imposed their will or initiated some tomfoolery. Most Oiler fans hated the Avs and Canucks when Hartley and Crawford were behind the bench because both teams had players who were hard to play against.

Outside of Souray, Stortini, Smid, Strudwick and Moreau at times, do the Oilers have any other players that intimidate or infuriate the opposition? You need forwards who will engage in a face wash, or give a cheap slash when the ref isn’t watching, or a cheap punch in a scrum.

Don’t tell me Detroit wins without those guys, because Holmstrom and Maltby are two of the most hated players in the league.

It is clear the Tambellini wants a coach who will bring a system that combines skill with speed, grit and most of all a willingness to dictate the flow of the game. The Oilers were consistently reactionary during MacTavish’s tenure and expect that to change next October.

Souray looking to leave?

Robin Brownlee first wrote that the rumours about Souray possibly asking for a trade might have some legs. Dan Barnes said on the TEAM 1260 that Souray had told him that this season was tough because he didn’t get to see his kids very often. I believe both of them, so I went fishing for more...

Souray didn’t outright ask for a trade. He stated to his agent that he was frustrated and disappointed with a few areas of the team. Losing was the main one. He had some concerns about the coaching. He missed his kids. A losing environment makes the little things seem bigger and it makes coming to the rink a chore at times.

But according to my source from within the locker room, Souray, through his agent, never demanded a trade. He just wanted his concerns noted. Mission accomplished.

His absence during the final media availability, the same day where his former coach was the hot topic, suggests Souray didn’t want to comment on it, similar to when MacTavish stated he wouldn’t discuss Dustin Penner anymore during his final presser on Monday. Was Souray as frustrated with his coach as the coach was with Penner? “No,” said my source.

But it is clear that coaching was one of his concerns, just not the main one.

Tambellini was asked if the any of the rumours about a player asking for a trade were true. One word, ‘No,” was his response. Of course, I wouldn’t have expected him to saying anything different.

But Tambellini’s comment regarding veterans who “hopefully want to be here,” suggests he heard some discontent. But according to my source it was not a blatant, “I want to be traded.”

A coaching change has given new hope for many here on the Nation, and you can bet that many players have the same renewed optimism. It's human nature. When a change is made you always believe it will lead to better things.

A new coach won’t make Souray miss his kids any less, and if his longing to see them becomes too much for him to handle, then it would be hard not to respect him for wanting out. But a new coach, a new system and some wins might make that separation easier to handle.

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One of Canada's most versatile sports personalities. Jason hosts The Jason Gregor Show, weekdays from 2 to 6 p.m., on TSN 1260, and he writes a column every Monday in the Edmonton Journal. You can follow him on Twitter at twitter.com/JasonGregor
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#101 Ogden Brother
April 16 2009, 01:13PM
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@ topshelf:

What baring does his salary make? Honestly until the team has an internal cap, under the external cap it is completly irrelavant. How do you not understand this.... 7 doesn't make his contract bad, 5.5 does. If his salary was 10 next year, but his hit was still 5.5... would you think it's "worse" then the 7 he actually makes?

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#102 Rick
April 16 2009, 01:14PM
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baggedmilk wrote:

Chances are I see Gilbert being the odd man out. Even though I kind of like him, he’s 10 shades of soft. At least Grebs will toss a hit out there.

So it boils down to a diference of opinion. I would prefer that they keep him because of his age, his first pass and his lower cap hit and then look at getting a cheaper, tough shut down guy to suppliment what is lost with Souray in order to free up some cash for goaltending or the forwards.

Bottom line though, my opinion has nothing to do with wanting to run a star player out of town as you first suggested. It's because I think it's a more prudent decision.

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#103 Jason Gregor
April 16 2009, 01:18PM
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Jonathan Willis wrote:

Hemsky and Horcoff seem pretty tight, based on public reports. Maybe Gregor or Brownlee could chip in on this?

They get along, and Horcoff is really all Hemsky has known as far as a center goes. Hemsky likes playing with Horcoff, but not if it means against the other teams top lines and he has to focus on defence as much as offence.

If you want to play Horcoff against the other teams top line, then Hemsky won't play with him next year. Many of you would scream bloody murder if Horcoff was a 3rd line shut down guy. And I doubt he would be enamoured in that role, but it might be something to look at moving forward. Of you play him with Penner and a RW as your 2nd line and put them against top team.

Penner's mind set is better suited off the top line. Don't look at contracts, look at what gives you the best chance to win.

Or they move Cogliano to the wing with Gagner next year on the 2nd line. Right now, Cogliano doesn't have the strength, savy or faceoff ability to be the 3rd line center. So something has to give.

The optics might not allow it, but there is no way that Hemsky and Horcoff play together next year if it means they go power on power every game...Here and there yes, but not every game. It won't happen.

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#104 MattL
April 16 2009, 01:20PM
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topshelf wrote:

@ Ogden Brother: The cap hit argument is a farce. The fact is he will be making 7 million dollars next year. How many 7 million dollar first line centers had under 20 goals this year?

The cap hit argument is not a farce. We have an owner with the cash, he can handle 7 million at the start and 3 million at the end of the contract. With a league-wide salary cap, every team has to have the highest player quality vs. cap hit to succeed. I don't know if you can make it any clearer than that. It's like giving your first and last month's rent when you move in to an apartment. It doesn't mean your rent has been doubled. Sheesh.

Arguing whether 5.5/year is too much is a VERY valid argument, after Horcoff's year this year, but arguing about the structure of his deal is the biggest crap argument ever, and what's worse, it makes all the idiots around town think Horcoff's making 7mil./year which I've heard over and over again on message boards.

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#105 Ogden Brother
April 16 2009, 01:22PM
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Zamboni Driver wrote:

topshelf wrote: @ Jonathan Willis: The number that will matter to me wil be the 3 million. The number that will matter to Tambellini will be the 5.5. He’s going to have to take that issue up with Kevin Lowe not me. I agree with this entirely…PLUS, at 3 million maybe….MAYBE you have a chance to trade him. So the Oiler will pay out the huge dough at the beginning, then someone else will pay out the rest when the cost comes down. A GM might look at the 5.5 and say, okay that cap hit is not too bad (it’s still horrid, but not grotesque) - the owner, aka Dude who pays the bills says ‘SEVEN FRICKING MILLION??? IGINLA MONEY for that guy…..’ Said owner also probably says “Who the F- is Shawn Horcoff?” too, btw.

I'm pretty sure he wasn't signed signed long term to move while his salary is 7.

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#106 Lofty
April 16 2009, 01:26PM
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@ Ogden Brother:

Your right he could be serviceable: media relations, skate sharpening, hell maybe zambonie driver (we all remember the shootout game where they couldn’t get that done right)

I would say security with his size but he doesn’t do his job with any physicality or emotion so that wont work either. Chris Browns more physical and passionte than Penner.

Tambo says he wants grit and passion on his team... you have to get rid of it otherwise it spreads like the plague.

It was a mistake from the start and its time to cut the loses

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#107 Ogden Brother
April 16 2009, 01:26PM
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Jason Gregor wrote:

Jonathan Willis wrote: Hemsky and Horcoff seem pretty tight, based on public reports. Maybe Gregor or Brownlee could chip in on this? They get along, and Horcoff is really all Hemsky has known as far as a center goes. Hemsky likes playing with Horcoff, but not if it means against the other teams top lines and he has to focus on defence as much as offence. If you want to play Horcoff against the other teams top line, then Hemsky won’t play with him next year. Many of you would scream bloody murder if Horcoff was a 3rd line shut down guy. And I doubt he would be enamoured in that role, but it might be something to look at moving forward. Of you play him with Penner and a RW as your 2nd line and put them against top team. Penner’s mind set is better suited off the top line. Don’t look at contracts, look at what gives you the best chance to win. Or they move Cogliano to the wing with Gagner next year on the 2nd line. Right now, Cogliano doesn’t have the strength, savy or faceoff ability to be the 3rd line center. So something has to give. The optics might not allow it, but there is no way that Hemsky and Horcoff play together next year if it means they go power on power every game…Here and there yes, but not every game. It won’t happen.

And that's why the team desperatly needs a solid vetran 3rd line center, in a shut down role.

Penner and a pick (not 1st) for Fisher?

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#108 Jason Gregor
April 16 2009, 01:26PM
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What many of you are failing to realize is that Gilbert and Grebeshkov are not great PKers. Neither is strong in front of the net.

Yes faceoffs hurt them, but too often they lost battles in front of the net and that resulted in goals. Souray rarely loses that battle. Visnovsky is the 5th option on the PK.

You have Smid, Souray, one of the Gs and bring in another Dman who is tough in front of the net.

If you trade Souray, that means you the two Gs both on the PK, because Visnovsky won't kill them...

Trading Souray and replacing him with a stay-at-home guy doesn't increase your toughness, in fact it might lessen it. Because few D-men play as tough, and get away with as much as Souray.

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#109 BarryS
April 16 2009, 01:31PM
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@ Ogden Brother:

Seems to me we have just gone through too many years of internal salary cap and lost a great many useful players because of it. It is nice to finally have an owner with deep enough pockets to at least keep the players the team wants to keep and have a chance to get players the team wants to get. In any case, can't see the sense in arguing over 5 million or 7 million when even one million for any athelete is too much if it comes to the so-called "important things of the world." Man, it's Katz's dough, let him spend it as he wants. You don't like it, don't drink the advertizes beer, use their phones, shop at his drug stores, watch the games, etc. etc. Otherwise, just be glad we can keep a few players we have now and have hopes of getting a few more.

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#110 Ogden Brother
April 16 2009, 01:31PM
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MattL wrote:

topshelf wrote: @ Ogden Brother: The cap hit argument is a farce. The fact is he will be making 7 million dollars next year. How many 7 million dollar first line centers had under 20 goals this year? The cap hit argument is not a farce. We have an owner with the cash, he can handle 7 million at the start and 3 million at the end of the contract. With a league-wide salary cap, every team has to have the highest player quality vs. cap hit to succeed. I don’t know if you can make it any clearer than that. It’s like giving your first and last month’s rent when you move in to an apartment. It doesn’t mean your rent has been doubled. Sheesh. Arguing whether 5.5/year is too much is a VERY valid argument, after Horcoff’s year this year, but arguing about the structure of his deal is the biggest crap argument ever, and what’s worse, it makes all the idiots around town think Horcoff’s making 7mil./year which I’ve heard over and over again on message boards.

Thank God others understand this.

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#111 Jay
April 16 2009, 01:34PM
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I hope the oil can make an effort to bring back kotalik. sure he's not physical (especially for his size), but he has a knack for finding the soft open spots in the offensive zone. most of his goals may be one timers from the left side, but to his credit he has the ability to make himself available for a pass and get ready to fire quickly. most of the other oilers this year lacked both of those abilities.

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#112 BarryS
April 16 2009, 01:36PM
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@ Jason Gregor:

Seems to me the PK needs to be made up of the best skaters on the team. Tough means nothing if the red light is on before the defenders gets close to the shooter. One of the reasons Pisani is so good at PK is he can skate like the wind.

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#113 Lofty
April 16 2009, 01:39PM
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topshelf wrote:

@ Ogden Brother: The cap hit argument is a farce. The fact is he will be making 7 million dollars next year. How many 7 million dollar first line centers had under 20 goals this year?

Couldnt agree with you more! In the end, for the 09/10 season the Oil will have a guy eating up 7% of the cap when he is worth about half that.

I DONT CARE ABOUT $$$ I CARE ABOUT CAP SPACE.

That 7% is the same as Iggy, and pretty close to Kovalchuk and Getzlaf, not to mention many others. KLowe went crazy after the cup run and Tambo is gonna have to take some drastic action to straighten it out.

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#114 Rick
April 16 2009, 01:42PM
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Jason Gregor wrote:

If you trade Souray, that means you the two Gs both on the PK, because Visnovsky won’t kill them…

If you trade Souray and bring in a stay at home guy, you are in the same penalty killing position as you are with him.

Except the stay at home guy is in Souray's place.

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#115 Lofty
April 16 2009, 01:42PM
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@ BarryS: Get a hobby

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#116 jeff
April 16 2009, 01:43PM
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Jason Gregor wrote:

What many of you are failing to realize is that Gilbert and Grebeshkov are not great PKers. Neither is strong in front of the net. Yes faceoffs hurt them, but too often they lost battles in front of the net and that resulted in goals. Souray rarely loses that battle. Visnovsky is the 5th option on the PK. You have Smid, Souray, one of the Gs and bring in another Dman who is tough in front of the net. If you trade Souray, that means you the two Gs both on the PK, because Visnovsky won’t kill them… Trading Souray and replacing him with a stay-at-home guy doesn’t increase your toughness, in fact it might lessen it. Because few D-men play as tough, and get away with as much as Souray.

If the play is behind the corner Souray is okay, but once it starts getting cycled he is useless. Too many times I see that he and Staios are standing 5 feet away from the nearest player after the puck goes in. They need to work on tying the guys stick up and better positional play.

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#117 Rick
April 16 2009, 01:43PM
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Rick wrote:

Jason Gregor wrote: If you trade Souray, that means you the two Gs both on the PK, because Visnovsky won’t kill them… If you trade Souray and bring in a stay at home guy, you are in the same penalty killing position as you are with him. Except the stay at home guy is in Souray’s place.

That should have said;

...same position as this year, with him.

stupid edit

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#118 Cam
April 16 2009, 01:46PM
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jeanshorts wrote:

@ Ogden Brother: You have to remember that a lot of people around here are still really butt hurt that Horcoff didn’t score 40 goals this year. I’ll agree his contract is well above what it should be, but he’s one of our best defensive forwards and he took like 98% of the faceoffs this year. I guarantee that once they get in another guy that can shoulder some of the workload, and maybe get Cogliano or Gagner looking like Stoll on the dot Horcoff’s game is going to look A LOT better.

I hope to see the Hrcoff we saw in 2005-2006 & 2007-2008. That was a first line centre. The 2006-2007 & 2008-2009 version was a good two way second line guy. Neither version sucks, but the former is worth more money than the latter. Unfortunately we saw the second line Horcoff this year and not eh first line guy of two years ago.

I think he was hurting.

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#119 jeff
April 16 2009, 01:47PM
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jeff wrote:

Jason Gregor wrote: What many of you are failing to realize is that Gilbert and Grebeshkov are not great PKers. Neither is strong in front of the net. Yes faceoffs hurt them, but too often they lost battles in front of the net and that resulted in goals. Souray rarely loses that battle. Visnovsky is the 5th option on the PK. You have Smid, Souray, one of the Gs and bring in another Dman who is tough in front of the net. If you trade Souray, that means you the two Gs both on the PK, because Visnovsky won’t kill them… Trading Souray and replacing him with a stay-at-home guy doesn’t increase your toughness, in fact it might lessen it. Because few D-men play as tough, and get away with as much as Souray. If the play is behind the corner Souray is okay, but once it starts getting cycled he is useless. Too many times I see that he and Staios are standing 5 feet away from the nearest player after the puck goes in. They need to work on tying the guys stick up and better positional play.

This meant to say behind the net or in the corner

Stupid Edit.

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#120 Rick
April 16 2009, 01:51PM
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Cam wrote:

I think he was hurting.

That would explain why he went to the World Championships.

Oh wait...

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#121 Ogden Brother
April 16 2009, 01:51PM
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Lofty wrote:

topshelf wrote: @ Ogden Brother: The cap hit argument is a farce. The fact is he will be making 7 million dollars next year. How many 7 million dollar first line centers had under 20 goals this year? Couldnt agree with you more! In the end, for the 09/10 season the Oil will have a guy eating up 7% of the cap when he is worth about half that. I DONT CARE ABOUT $$$ I CARE ABOUT CAP SPACE. That 7% is the same as Iggy, and pretty close to Kovalchuk and Getzlaf, not to mention many others. KLowe went crazy after the cup run and Tambo is gonna have to take some drastic action to straighten it out.

Wow, you are really confused.

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#122 DK0
April 16 2009, 01:53PM
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Jason Gregor wrote:

Because few D-men play as tough, and get away with as much as Souray.

Thank you for mentioning this. In a perfect world i say Moreau is gone, and Souray is captain. One huge thing he would bring to the table is being able to deal with the refs. I don't know what it is but 80% of the time they turn a blind eye to Souray's cross checks. I don't think its a fluke, i think Souray puts effort into getting in the refs good books and it makes him a better player.

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#123 BarryS
April 16 2009, 01:54PM
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Lofty wrote:

@ BarryS: Get a hobby

I have many, one of which is reading the blog so I can get my exercise shaking my head at many of the posts here. What's your's?

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#124 topshelf
April 16 2009, 01:54PM
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MattL wrote:

it makes all the idiots around town think Horcoff’s making 7mil./year which I’ve heard over and over again on message boards.

When did I say he will be making 7mil/year? I said next year he will make 7 million. I think that is steep. I am allowed my own opinion am I not?

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#125 jeff
April 16 2009, 01:59PM
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@ DK0: I noticed when the play is dead that he chats with the refs/linesmans all the time. Not sure what they talk about, but it seems to help him.

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#126 treblecharger
April 16 2009, 02:00PM
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Gilbert is one of the best first pass/outlet pass guys in the game....even at 4 mil I don't feel good about the possibility of him leaving. If I have to choose 1 of the 4 to be dealt of Souray, Vish, Gibby & Grebs, I go, reluctantly, with Grebs. Hopefully some of these young offensive D-men still have some sheen on them and can attract a trading partner...I'm lookin' at you Chorney, Petry and Wild.

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#127 topshelf
April 16 2009, 02:01PM
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@ Ogden Brother: Is there not a yearly team cap as well? Didn't Gregor have this argument with someone already?

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#128 Harlie
April 16 2009, 02:02PM
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topshelf wrote:

MattL wrote: it makes all the idiots around town think Horcoff’s making 7mil./year which I’ve heard over and over again on message boards. When did I say he will be making 7mil/year? I said next year he will make 7 million. I think that is steep. I am allowed my own opinion am I not?

topshelf wrote:

MattL wrote: it makes all the idiots around town think Horcoff’s making 7mil./year which I’ve heard over and over again on message boards. When did I say he will be making 7mil/year? I said next year he will make 7 million. I think that is steep. I am allowed my own opinion am I not?

yes your are entitled to your opinion. But why do you focus on his actual salary versus what he means to the teams cap hit which is 5.5 million? The other 1.5 million you refer to is what Katz has to worry about. The 5.5 is what Tambo has to worry about.

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#129 Archaeologuy
April 16 2009, 02:10PM
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@ Jonathan Willis: I understand that Horc has value to this team, but I just dont see it as being in the same class for the same role that Briere plays for the Flyers. Maybe that's the problem here. Just like the Oilers did with Peca and others when they came here, we want these guys to fill roles they just cant fill. On his best days Horcoff can be another Jamie Langenbrunner. An excellent defensive forward who can score 20-25 goals a season. But that is on his best day. However, I wouldnt want Langenbrunner to be my 1st line scoring centre. I know you argued not long ago that since the lockout Horc has been a top 90 player, but honestly, I'm not convinced he can regain his old form post shoulder surgery.

And I didnt say that Hemsky didnt like Horc as a person. But you can only gift wrap the puck to a guy who refuses to put it in the net SO MANY TIMES before you get frustrated and demand out.

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#130 DonDon
April 16 2009, 02:14PM
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@ jeff: Getting grit somewhere else is what Tambellini expects to do. I expect he will add grit up front. As to Moreau and Staois, is there a place for them on Tambellini's team next year? Moreau really hasn't recovered from his injuries the season prior, seems to get a lot of unnecessary and untimely penalties, and is clearly showing his age. Staois is a great guy but now a liability on defence. There were just too many deficiencies on this year's squadron, toxic contracts for underperforming players that limited the club's ability to make changes, and little or no room to move under the salary cap. The issue with Howcoff's salary is value (he is not a top line centre) and the inability to move him. The reason he took a record number of face-offs is because no one else was capable. This is one of the many reasons for such a poor PK. Considering the total salary of this season's team, the organization and fans received extremely poor value! Did any other teams with such a high salary miss the playoffs?

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#131 topshelf
April 16 2009, 02:15PM
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http://www.oilersnation.com/2009/04/gregor-and-horcoff/comment-page-1/#comments

This is the argument I was referring to.

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#132 jeff
April 16 2009, 02:18PM
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@ DonDon: Dallas, Ottawa, Florida few guys not far off really

http://www.nhlnumbers.com/compare.php?season=0809

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#133 Cam
April 16 2009, 02:49PM
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Rick wrote:

Cam wrote: I think he was hurting. That would explain why he went to the World Championships. Oh wait…

earlier in the year when he had back spasms would be what i was talking about.

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#134 David S
April 16 2009, 02:49PM
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treblecharger wrote:

Gilbert is one of the best first pass/outlet pass guys in the game

You forgot the sarcasm hiliters..."~Gilbert...~".

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#135 Dennis
April 16 2009, 02:52PM
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I find it funny how "long" it took the Wild to can their GM while Lowe still strides about the atom mill; probably an indication that the Oil were more interested in talking about the gold old days instead of trying to shorten the bad new ones.

The other thing from the exit comments is just how big of pucking snakes both 18 and 44 were and are. Seriously, what else could MacT do for these guys? Yet, neither of them have any trouble voicing their displeasure. The new coach better be read to toss salads or else he's gonna be "the problem" as well.

Gregor: constructing a matchup line starting with 10-27 might not be a bad idea and unless someone else shows up, you flesh out that troika with 34.

The only problem is that this would lead to a 19-83-89 soft min line that doesn't look like a good idea considering how 89-83 never seem to mesh at EV. I hope 83 sucks it up and braces for the challenge of going a PPG while facing the other team's best players.

Finally, for all the talk of getting bigger, we're gonna have to most likely bring in two guys who can also kill a friggin' penalty.

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#136 ryan
April 16 2009, 02:58PM
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Oilers need more goals who cares about the 3rd and 4th line. If they can get better offence out of the first two lines ( whomever is on the team) they can add grit to the 3rd and 4th lines. Keep Souray trade Lubo and Captial Ethan and sign JBo. I'd love to see the Oilers pick up a Center that can play hockey maybe Gabriok

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#137 Gump
April 16 2009, 03:12PM
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Chris Drury has a cap hit of 7 million, had 56 points,was -2, and played 20 min a game.

Scott Gomez has a cap hit of 7.25 million, had 58 points, was -8, and played 21 min a game.

Daniel Briere has a cap hit of 6.5 million, had 25 points,was -1, and played 15 min a game.

Shawn Horcoff WILL have a cap hit of 5.5 million, had 53 points,was +7, and played 21 min a game.

Shawn Horcoff's deal isn't going to be the big bust like Drury, Gomez, and Briere are. Is it over-inflated? Yes. But I can live with it if the other pieces fall into place. (ie a winger for the first line and a productinve second line.)

His face-offs and PK make up for his point totals.

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#138 MattL
April 16 2009, 03:13PM
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topshelf wrote:

http://www.oilersnation.com/2009/04/gregor-and-horcoff/comment-page-1/#comments This is the argument I was referring to.

Holy cow, looks like I missed the party. Sounds like this was never officially resolved by a professional cap expert. Please let's call Rick Olcyk and solve this before I lose anymore sleep. Who's got his number?

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#139 Jonathan Willis
April 16 2009, 03:14PM
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Lofty wrote:

topshelf wrote: @ Ogden Brother: The cap hit argument is a farce. The fact is he will be making 7 million dollars next year. How many 7 million dollar first line centers had under 20 goals this year? Couldnt agree with you more! In the end, for the 09/10 season the Oil will have a guy eating up 7% of the cap when he is worth about half that. I DONT CARE ABOUT $$$ I CARE ABOUT CAP SPACE. That 7% is the same as Iggy, and pretty close to Kovalchuk and Getzlaf, not to mention many others. KLowe went crazy after the cup run and Tambo is gonna have to take some drastic action to straighten it out.

Okay, now I'm very confused. If you care about cap space over dollars, aren't you making the opposite argument of topshelf? Because as far as cap space goes, Horcoff takes up 5.5 million (Iginla takes up 7).

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#140 Jonathan Willis
April 16 2009, 03:18PM
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Gregor: I realize that Hemsky has said he's frustrated with checking, but he's been matched against the top lines for two years now. Why would the new coach change that when most every top line in the game runs power vs. power?

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#141 Jonathan Willis
April 16 2009, 03:21PM
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@ Archaeologuy:

Horcoff's been roughly a point per game guy in two out of four seasons since the lockout. Langenbrunner's never done it.

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#142 topshelf
April 16 2009, 03:26PM
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MattL wrote:

Holy cow, looks like I missed the party. Sounds like this was never officially resolved by a professional cap expert. Please let’s call Rick Olcyk and solve this before I lose anymore sleep. Who’s got his number?

With a response like that how can I not take you seriously?

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#143 topshelf
April 16 2009, 03:28PM
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I simply provided that link because that is the basis of my argument. If I'm incorrect, sorry for wasting your precious time.

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#144 Archaeologuy
April 16 2009, 03:29PM
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@ Jonathan Willis: I would take Langenbrunner on my team any day of the week over 3 Horcoffs. And I'm still not convinced he will ever go back to those near point per game numbers ever again. If he cant do it with a super productive back end and Hemsky on his wing then i dont think he ever will. But who knows, maybe a new voice will coax (sp?) it out of him.

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#145 Jonathan Willis
April 16 2009, 03:37PM
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@ Archaeologuy:

You mean, if he can't do it with a productive back end and Hemsky on his wing (some of the time) after surgery and with back spasms and a rotating group of ineffective left-wings?

He did it last season with Hemsky and a much less productive back end, so I don't really see what you're getting at.

I like Langenbrunner, and he's a good player, but you aren't giving Horcoff his due (or even close to his due) if you think one Langenbrunner is worth three Horcoffs. And on offense, Horcoff's consistently the better player, post-lockout.

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#146 MikeP
April 16 2009, 03:43PM
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Dennis wrote:

Gregor: constructing a matchup line starting with 10-27 might not be a bad idea and unless someone else shows up, you flesh out that troika with 34.

Penner seems at his best when he's paired with a hitter. That seems to light him up - he never seemed more engaged than when he had Stortini on the opposite wing. I don't think Storts is ready for a shutdown role though, and may never be. Given that, both 10/34 with 27 doesn't seem full of win for me, not if you want Penner to ever approach 20 goals again anyway.

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#147 Cam
April 16 2009, 03:47PM
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Jonathan Willis wrote:

@ Archaeologuy: ...I like Langenbrunner, and he’s a good player, but you aren’t giving Horcoff his due (or even close to his due) if you think one Langenbrunner is worth three Horcoffs. And on offense, Horcoff’s consistently the better player, post-lockout.

I agree with you Jonathan. I watched every goal he scored in 07-08, and his one timer/quick release was the sweet. He was a one shot scorer. This year: not so much, but he was playing against the other teams top line all year and he was still a plus player. Inn his case (PK time and quality of opposition) I really think that stat is meaningful... particularly on a team that was blown out as much as the Oil.

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#148 Chris
April 16 2009, 04:16PM
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It's frustrating watching so many promising plays die on the stick of Horcoff. He was off all year... I hope he can bounce back.

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#149 Archaeologuy
April 16 2009, 04:27PM
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@ Jonathan Willis: Perhaps I'm not giving him his due at all. But if the 09/10 Horc is similar to the 08/09 Horc then I dont think he's good enough in his role to help the Oilers make the playoffs. Change his role or maybe just define it better, but I dont think he's good enough.

His shoulder situation is a major hurdle for me. His back problems mixed with his shoulder, and the lack of physicality in his game a year after surgery suggests to me that he wont be back to his former success. He isnt in his early 20's, majory and nagging injuries arent a good sign.

I'd still take 2 Cup rings and 29 goals as well as a +25 rating any day of the week.

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#150 Archaeologuy
April 16 2009, 04:29PM
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Archaeologuy wrote:

majory

majory?! EDIT major

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