NCFOM II: Jagr Revisited

Robin Brownlee
May 01 2009 12:21AM

jagr_khl

So, Jaromir Jagr could see himself in Edmonton Oilers colours, could he? I bet he could, as long as there's lots of green to go along with the copper and blue he suddenly seems to be fond of.

After sounding thoroughly disinterested a few months ago about overtures made by president of hockey operations Kevin Lowe, Jagr has the hearts of some Oilers fans all a-titter now that's he's apparently cozied up to the idea of all that green, ahem, I mean copper and blue.

Thursday at the IIHF World Championships, Jagr was quoted in the National Post as saying: "That was really exciting when I heard Edmonton pushed really hard to get me, I really appreciate it.

"I want to thank those guys (in Edmonton). And, if I ever got there (back in the NHL), they would be my No. 1 pick because they showed me the interest first. I never forget that. I respect that and they would be my first pick."

Really? Is that so? Is that right? It seems to me Jagr's flip-flop on interest by the Oilers is equalled only by the KHL's reversal of financial fortune. Wasn't it just a few months ago Jagr shrugged off Edmonton?

He said: "Yes such an opportunity really existed. The teams had discussed how that could be fulfilled. But it did not depend on me. Should Omsk ask me to join Edmonton, I'd do that, but that was not something I desired myself."

Now, apparently, he does.

Sign the papers, old man

Already 37 and several years removed from his prime, Jagr still has one year remaining on his contract with Omsk of the KHL and indicated he intends, at least for now, to honour it.

That would mean Mario Junior would be nearing his 39th birthday by the time he signs for a stack of cash, I mean pulls on a jersey, with the Oilers. What would it take to get Jagr? One season at $6 million, $7 million?

I wrote back on March 10 that I think pursuing Jagr and trying to turn back the hands of time is a waste of money and effort for the Oilers, and I don't feel any different about it today. The reasons remains the same.

What, there won't be a player available as a UFA this summer for $6 million who's got more in the tank and can be a part of the future of organization for more than a year? Jagr, in what looks to me like a money grab and nothing more, is GM Steve Tambellini's best option? I think not.

Bad arguments

1. Even if Jagr isn't the player he used to be, he'd be worth that stack of dough because, well, he'd do so much for the image of Edmonton as a destination for unrestricted free agents. We have, after all, been shunned often and by many. You can't put a price on esteem.

Well, no. Putting together a team capable of competing for a Stanley Cup would do far more in terms of attracting UFAs -- welcome to the Motor City Marian Hossa -- than paying sucker money to a once-great player a decade past his prime. Works OK in Detroit, no?

2. So what if Jagr only has 27 points at Christmas? The young players on the roster need a mentor and Jagr would be great. He's a leader of young men and that's what's been lacking around here. Think about the kids. How else are Sam Gagner and Andrew Cogliano supposed to develop?

I don't know, how did Jonathan Toews and Patrick Kane manage without a $7-million nanny wearing a jock in Chicago? Who did Rick Nash learn from in Columbus, Jody Shelley? Alex Ovechkin figured it out in Washington without having Father Time on the wing.

3. Still, even if Jagr was in it only for the money and it turned out he wasn't even a legitimate top-six forward any more, it would be really cool to bring him in just to say we did.

No. Jagr's mullet in the 1990s was cool. Winning is cool. Looking ahead instead of back over your shoulder is cool. Having a long-term plan and taking some lumps in the short-term to do it right and make it work is cool. I don't think Jagr fits into that.

Somebody might pay Jagr's price, but it shouldn't be the Oilers.

-- Listen to Robin Brownlee every Thursday from 4 to 6pm on Just A Game with Jason Gregor on TEAM 1260.

Aceb4a1816f5fa09879a023b07d1a9b4
A sports writer since 1983, including stints at The Edmonton Journal and The Sun 1989-2007, I happily co-host the Jason Gregor Show on TSN 1260 twice a week and write when so inclined. Have the best damn lawn on the internet. Most important, I am Sam's dad. Follow me on Twitter at Robin_Brownlee. Or don't.
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#51 RossCreek
May 01 2009, 10:10AM
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Ogden Brother wrote:

Depends... Havlat for 8 years at 6.5 per? No thanks.

OB... WE AGREE! WOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOO!

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#52 Hemmertime
May 01 2009, 10:11AM
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Robin Brownlee wrote:

My INSIDE SOURCE (Miss Cleo) tells me the Oilers will target Glenn Anderson. Did you see that move during his jersey retirement ceremony? Andy’s still clutch. One year at just $4 million.

I refer to Mark Recchi. Ill excuse his -18 since not sure how much Bos how much TB (you'd assume TB majority). Jagr is 4 years younger. Recchi Age 34: 22-42-64 Age 35: 20-32-52 Age 36: 26-49-75

Jagr Age 34: 54-69-123 Age 35: 30-66-96 Age 36: 25-76-71

Jagr has much better #'s at that age and we can all agree was better than Recchi throughout career. Recchi has gone on to produce: Age 37: 28-36-64 Age 38: 24-44-68 Age 39: 14-34-48 Age 40: 23-38-61

So even If Jagr at 36 put up similar #'s to Recchi at 36, most would consider that an Off year for Jagr and a great year for Recchi. Considering the 2, even if we need to sign a 2 year deal, I wouldn't be minding it for 4 mil range. A 1 year deal and Im laughing.

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#53 Archaeologuy
May 01 2009, 10:12AM
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@ Ogden Brother: @ RossCreek:

Havlat is a real finisher and one heck of a player. But even a 4 year contract might only get you 82 games played. I guess if he gets injured it doesnt count against the Cap, but still. I just have the feeling that he will want a ridiculously high salary for someone made of glass.

Sometimes you have to gamble though.

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#54 Quinn
May 01 2009, 10:13AM
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BUCK75 wrote:

I could not agree more RobBro. *clap, clap, clap* I think money is better spent on a combination or 1 or of: Mike Cammalleri Vernon Fiddler Manny Malhotra Travis Moen Dominic Moore or JBouw waste of $ signing Jagr - get some more young blood in here.

Awesome list of other better potential signings!

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#55 yo
May 01 2009, 10:15AM
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RB - I get a little nervous when some Edmonton media and other national media folks keep saying Katz wants to make a splash to show the league Edmonton is the be all and the end all in the hockey-loving world.

I hope to heck his thought processes are more grounded than that.

In my humble view there are two things that could be fatal to a solid and long running re-build of the Oiler organization. Happy-snappy short fixes to appease a p.o.'d fan base (Jagr). The other might be the unwise running yearly to the top of the salary cap in an attempt to lubricate the process. The Blackhawk's climb back into the ring may be a perfectly logical and the most practical way to re-build a team in a salary-cap era. Impatience, could be fatal in the long run from both the fan and team perspective.

Current rumors floating through the ether makes it appear to me that the theoretical changes have a distinct Broadway flavour to them and I can't say I like that trend. Are they opening an office for Slats on Kingsway too? I say ixnay to the Jagray. If he hasn't re-thought his self-centered ways of the past what do people think he has to offer here? His ego would keep one coach busy full time stroking him daily. The missing culture spoken of by the now-departed MacT will not come back to the room with Jagr's presence in my view. We could look to cowtown (Jokinen/Bertuzzi) for examples of that. In the last analysis what did their presence do for the Flames? Oler fans should be careful what they wish for...

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#56 Hemmertime
May 01 2009, 10:16AM
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Jagr age 36 should be 25-46-71. Edit ftl

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#57 RossCreek
May 01 2009, 10:19AM
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Anyone help me out with those Jagr/KHL stats? Am I stupid or is it that hard to find?!

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#58 Ogden Brother
May 01 2009, 10:19AM
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RossCreek wrote:

Ogden Brother wrote: Depends… Havlat for 8 years at 6.5 per? No thanks. OB… WE AGREE! WOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOO!

I change my stance.

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#59 Hemmertime
May 01 2009, 10:21AM
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Only thing that worries me is Jagr is enough of a prick to retire on the 2nd year of 2 year deal and we left holding his cap space. So thats the major reason 1 year

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#60 Ogden Brother
May 01 2009, 10:21AM
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Archaeologuy wrote:

@ Ogden Brother: @ RossCreek: Havlat is a real finisher and one heck of a player. But even a 4 year contract might only get you 82 games played. I guess if he gets injured it doesnt count against the Cap, but still. I just have the feeling that he will want a ridiculously high salary for someone made of glass. Sometimes you have to gamble though.

Ya, same story with Gaborik.... but it's also that risk that makes them potentially available for the Oil.

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#61 RossCreek
May 01 2009, 10:21AM
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Nevermind, stupid brain! 2008-09 Omsk Avangard KHL 55 25 28 53 62

Now to find out where he ranked.

@ Ogden Brother: LOL

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#62 Lofty
May 01 2009, 10:21AM
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I dont understand why so many people want JBOW here? He is great, he is an Edmonton/Mill Woods boy, and he understands that his job is to play defense.

The problem is the Oil need offense! If you have the option of getting rid of Gilbert and Nilson to get a top end forward or getting rid of Gilbert and some salery to get JBOW you have to go for the offense.

The fact that Souray was tied for most goals should be embarrasing to the oil forwards. They need help and it isnt going to come from a Dman

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#63 Hemmertime
May 01 2009, 10:23AM
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@ RossCreek: 55 GP - 25-28-53pts

Here is good article: hxxp://www.coppernblue.com/2009/03/khl-scoring-leaders-2008-09.html

Showing he is tied for 7th in the league.

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#64 Hemmertime
May 01 2009, 10:23AM
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lol that article is by Mr Willis I realize :)

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#65 RossCreek
May 01 2009, 10:26AM
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@ Hemmertime: LOL, thanx

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#66 topshelf
May 01 2009, 10:26AM
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@ RossCreek: hxxp://www.coppernblue.com/2009/03/khl-scoring-leaders-2008-09.html

T7. Jaromir Jagr - 55GP - 25G - 28A - 53PTS (.96 PPG)

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#67 topshelf
May 01 2009, 10:27AM
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whoops... too slow.

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#68 RossCreek
May 01 2009, 10:32AM
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There's some pretty big names ahead of him on that list, eh?

1. Sergei Mozyakin - 56GP - 34G - 41A - 75PTS (1.34 PPG) 2. Jan Marek - 53GP - 35G - 36A - 71PTS (1.34 PPG) 3. Alexei Morozov - 49GP - 32G - 38A - 70PTS (1.43 PPG) 4. Denis Zaripov - 56GP - 34G - 31A - 65PTS (1.16 PPG) T5. Kevin Dallman - 53GP - 28G - 29A - 57PTS (1.08 PPG) T5. Alexei Tereshenko - 55GP - 29G - 28A - 57PTS (1.04 PPG) T7. Alexander Korolyuk - 55GP - 21G - 32A - 53PTS (.96 PPG) T7. Jaromir Jagr - 55GP - 25G - 28A - 53PTS (.96 PPG)

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#69 Slurve
May 01 2009, 10:39AM
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Well I think having Jagr here will benefit Hemsky. Jagr could be his mentor and help him get to the next level. Just like Federov presence have with Ovechkin. Hopefully, Oilers will not pay Sundin-type money for him. I say two years at 5 and 4 million.

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#70 Quinn
May 01 2009, 10:47AM
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Lofty wrote:

I dont understand why so many people want JBOW here? He is great, he is an Edmonton/Mill Woods boy, and he understands that his job is to play defense. The problem is the Oil need offense! If you have the option of getting rid of Gilbert and Nilson to get a top end forward or getting rid of Gilbert and some salery to get JBOW you have to go for the offense. The fact that Souray was tied for most goals should be embarrasing to the oil forwards. They need help and it isnt going to come from a Dman

I agree J-Bo is not the solution, but I don't think the solution to the Oil's problem are on offense, especially since a decent PK would have had them in the playoffs this year. Keep a strong defense, improved PK, marginally improve offense/downlow grit and you see this team move from 12th to 5-7th in the conference.

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#71 roughneck
May 01 2009, 10:55AM
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Images of Nagano.

Linden scores and Janet Jones Gretz jumps up and down and looks old,threadbare and trying way too hard, (kinda Manny Ramirez like).

The czechs win in a shootout and WHO IS THAT GODDESS?

Not to belabor Robins point but Im thinking JJs goddess isnt so hot anymore

unless shes been replaced by another

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#72 Hemmertime
May 01 2009, 10:57AM
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@ RossCreek: Ya there is quite a few people in Russia I could see produce in the NHL (again?) Korolyuk, Morozov, Zaripov or Mozyakin all could be top 6, or PP specialists possibilities. These guys would fit more on an ATL type team I think, but if we took a chance on Dopita... heh. I would have taken Omark over them due to age but if some elite Russian talent wants to play in the NHL and would accept a decent salary it wouldn't be something to dismiss out of hand.

Food For Thought, all these people got more than: Alexander Radulov 48 points—22 goals and 26 assists.

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#73 Archaeologuy
May 01 2009, 11:02AM
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@ Hemmertime: Radulov is a punk. Leaving for the KHL as a Free Agent is one thing, ditching out in the middle of a ontract is another. His case is exactly why I dont think that the NHL should honour KHL contracts.

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#74 Wanye Gretz
May 01 2009, 11:13AM
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You know Robin, you couldn't be more right on this issue if you had an electrified righting machine set to maximum power and you had the target set to JAGR.

Not only is he too old, his work ethic is hardly legendary to begin with. What will he end up teaching Hemsky exactly? How to be a self righteous douchebag with a heavy sense of entitlement? How to lose millions of dollars in online gaming?

No thanks. This reeks of desperation not building a world class hockey team.

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#75 Jonathan Willis
May 01 2009, 11:30AM
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A fun question for everyone, since I'm not sure of the answer myself:

Is it possible for the Oilers to buy out the last year of his KHL contract? Since there's no agreement with the KHL one would think the Oilers could pay his KHL team a lump sum of money (according to reports Omsk is struggling with $$$ right now) and then sign him to an NHL contract.

That sounds farfetched to me, but not impossible, although I wouldn't be surprised to find out that it's completely impractical.

If the Oilers could manage that, I'd be fine with Jagr signed to a one-year contract in the 5MM range.

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#76 kingsblade
May 01 2009, 11:30AM
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This is off-topic but there are reports that Toronto is nearing a deal with Gustavsson. Why are the Oilers not taking a run at him?

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#77 Jason Gregor
May 01 2009, 11:45AM
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yo wrote:

The Blackhawk’s climb back into the ring may be a perfectly logical and the most practical way to re-build a team in a salary-cap era. Impatience, could be fatal in the long run from both the fan and team perspective.

I love how you guys think they had this great rebuilding plan. They won the KANE lottery to get number one, of course they also dropped out of the top two in 04 and settled for Barker instead of Malkin.

But they traded for Sharp (from Flyers for Matt Ellison) and they traded for Versteeg (Brandon Bochenski went to Bruins), and then have two brutally over-priced salaries in Huet and Campbell that will almost surely mean they won't be able to keep all their young talent. Plus they haven't won sheet yet.

Khabibulin is UFA as is Havlat...two of their best playoff guys...They won't win the Cup this year, and after next year with Seabrook, Keith, Versteeg, Toews and Kane all needing contracts how will they look then.

You need to draft well, but also make some good trades, get bang for your buck in free agency and then have a few picks overachieve. It isn't a simple formula of sucking for four years and poof you are a contender.

They got two of their best forwards in Sharp and Versteeg for basically nothing. That doesn't happen very often.

kingsblade wrote:

This is off-topic but there are reports that Toronto is nearing a deal with Gustavsson. Why are the Oilers not taking a run at him?

The Oilers have been in discussions with him. Last I heard they were in the mix, along with about seven other teams. It will come down to who ponies up the biggest contract.

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#78 Archaeologuy
May 01 2009, 11:46AM
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Jonathan Willis wrote:

Is it possible for the Oilers to buy out the last year of his KHL contract?

I know it isnt the official NHL stance on KHL contracts, but I wouldnt pay them a dime for poached players. I dont think Nashville received anything, so I dont understand why the NHL would pay one of their clubs. If its the only way Jagr would come (because i think he said he'd leave if Omsk asked him to) then it might be the way to go, but I prefer fighting fire with fire in this situation.

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#79 Rick
May 01 2009, 11:49AM
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Jason Gregor wrote:

The Oilers have been in discussions with him. Last I heard they were in the mix, along with about seven other teams. It will come down to who ponies up the biggest contract.

Aren't the Oilers technically at 50 contracts until June 30th?

If so, the best the Oilers could do is talk to him until then and the earliest they could sign him is July 1.

Unless they make some minor trade before then.

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#80 Jason Gregor
May 01 2009, 11:50AM
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Lofty wrote:

I dont understand why so many people want JBOW here? He is great, he is an Edmonton/Mill Woods boy, and he understands that his job is to play defense. The problem is the Oil need offense! If you have the option of getting rid of Gilbert and Nilson to get a top end forward or getting rid of Gilbert and some salery to get JBOW you have to go for the offense.

Bouwmeester had 15-27-42pts...Gilbert had 5-40-45 pts...Is Bouwmeester that much of an offensive downgrade? I don't think so. He is a top-five D-man in the league, you take him over Gilbert in a heartbeat. Gilber and Nilsson combined didn't score as many goals as Bouwmeester did last year, so it's not like the Oilers are losing offence.

Right now Nilsson is a thrown in on any trade.

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#81 Jay
May 01 2009, 11:55AM
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@ Robin

Who exactly on the Oilers roster are comparables to Toews, or Patrick Kane, or Rick Nash, or Ovechkin? No one right? Right. There isn't one Oiler you wouldn't give up to get any of those 4.

Remember it's no different than Zetterberg, Holmstrom, Dadtsyuk, or Franzen needed Yzerman to learn from.

Jagr is several years removed from his prime? Perhaps. In Jagrs last 4 NHL seasons, 323 games (82 games each the last 3 seasons). 140 goals. 224 assists. 364 points in 323 games.

He's not looking like he's finished either.

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#82 Ogden Brother
May 01 2009, 11:57AM
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Jason Gregor wrote:

Lofty wrote: I dont understand why so many people want JBOW here? He is great, he is an Edmonton/Mill Woods boy, and he understands that his job is to play defense. The problem is the Oil need offense! If you have the option of getting rid of Gilbert and Nilson to get a top end forward or getting rid of Gilbert and some salery to get JBOW you have to go for the offense. Bouwmeester had 15-27-42pts…Gilbert had 5-40-45 pts…Is Bouwmeester that much of an offensive downgrade? I don’t think so. He is a top-five D-man in the league, you take him over Gilbert in a heartbeat. Gilber and Nilsson combined didn’t score as many goals as Bouwmeester did last year, so it’s not like the Oilers are losing offence. Right now Nilsson is a thrown in on any trade.

Top 5?

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#83 Jason Gregor
May 01 2009, 12:08PM
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Rick wrote:

Aren’t the Oilers technically at 50 contracts until June 30th? If so, the best the Oilers could do is talk to him until then and the earliest they could sign him is July 1. Unless they make some minor trade before then.

Yes they are at 50 today, but they can talk to him and if they offer him more he can wait until the 1st to sign. He is different than NHL UFA's where technically teams can't talk to them until July 1st. Teams that they didn't finish the season with of course.

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#84 Rick
May 01 2009, 12:16PM
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Jason Gregor wrote:

Unless they make some minor trade before then. Yes they are at 50 today, but they can talk to him and if they offer him more he can wait until the 1st to sign. He is different than NHL UFA’s where technically teams can’t talk to them until July 1st. Teams that they didn’t finish the season with of course.

Yeah I get that, my comment was made moreso to point out that IF the Leafs are as close to signing him as it has been suggested in the media, which I take as meaning not far off time wise, then the Oilers could be left out of the running because they can't exactly counter with offering a signed contract for another couple months.

Logic would suggest that Gustavsson would wait for July 1 if he liked the deal but like Omark's agent just proved, logic doesn't always win out. That was another case where the Oilers weren't in a legal position to actually sign him in order to counter the KHL contract that was presented to him.

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#85 Jason Gregor
May 01 2009, 12:16PM
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Ogden Brother wrote:

Top 5?

Overall D-men, who do you think are better?

Lidstrom, Niedermayer and the Human Rake are they better today??? More experience for sure but after Chara who do you think is clearly better? Green is stellar offensively. Phaneuf...ahhh NO. I can't think of any that are better right now. Shea Weber is very close. But I don't think it is a stretch to say Bouwmeester is in the top five. He plays in Florida so no one sees him, but he is dynamic.

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#86 Hemmertime
May 01 2009, 12:21PM
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As far as buying out Omsk, it sounded if they failed to make 2nd round of playoffs that we already had a dollar figure in place for that, or were very close to. Am I wrong?

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#87 Jason Gregor
May 01 2009, 12:24PM
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Rick wrote:

That was another case where the Oilers weren’t in a legal position to actually sign him in order to counter the KHL contract that was presented to him.

If the Oilers had offered him two million a year, he would have waited to sign. There is no need to rush and sign a contract now since the season doesn't start until September.

The Leafs are currently at 49 players, so they have room for one more, but the big question will be how much does Gustavsson want? If the Leafs outbid the Oilers and the rest of the teams involved then they could win, but he would sign today if the Oilers or another team offered him more to sign July 1st.

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#88 Hemmertime
May 01 2009, 12:27PM
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Jason Gregor wrote:

Overall D-men, who do you think are better?

Mike Green Brian Campbell Lidstrom Pronger Boyle (tho I dont personally like em) Chara Visnovsky ....

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#89 mf
May 01 2009, 12:28PM
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I'd rather watch a Has-been like Jagr than a bunch of Have-Not's and Never-Will-Be's.

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#90 Hemmertime
May 01 2009, 12:33PM
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Ill concede Green is hardly a D man.

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#91 topshelf
May 01 2009, 12:43PM
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@ Hemmertime: Campbell is not better than JayBo

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#92 RossCreek
May 01 2009, 12:43PM
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Hemmertime wrote:

Jason Gregor wrote: Overall D-men, who do you think are better? Mike Green Brian Campbell Lidstrom Pronger Boyle (tho I dont personally like em) Chara Visnovsky ….

Laughable. Boyle should be added to Gregor's list.

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#93 topshelf
May 01 2009, 12:44PM
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@ topshelf: Neither is Visnovsky, plus he is waaay older.

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#94 Hemmertime
May 01 2009, 12:54PM
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Ya, The Florida aspect people dont see him, also means he is part of the South-least. Id put Jbo top ten-15 without hesitation saying he is a #1 guy. But top 5 in league is pressing it is my point. Vis is a comparable, they different styles but JBos 471GP 203 PTs -27 vs 549 GP 310 Pts +17, sure Lubo played on a better team, but wasnt Det by any measure

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#95 RossCreek
May 01 2009, 12:54PM
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A better question: For his age group, who is better than Bou? Not too many names that I'd clearly argue for. I'd prob take Shea Weber ahead of him, but who else?

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#96 roughneck
May 01 2009, 01:00PM
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topshelf wrote:

@ Hemmertime: Campbell is not better than JayBo

werd........just ask Scotty Bowman

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#97 Ogden Brother
May 01 2009, 01:05PM
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Jason Gregor wrote:

Ogden Brother wrote: Top 5? Overall D-men, who do you think are better? Lidstrom, Niedermayer and the Human Rake are they better today??? More experience for sure but after Chara who do you think is clearly better? Green is stellar offensively. Phaneuf…ahhh NO. I can’t think of any that are better right now. Shea Weber is very close. But I don’t think it is a stretch to say Bouwmeester is in the top five. He plays in Florida so no one sees him, but he is dynamic.

1. Chara hands down 2. Lidstrom, still have to have him in there 3. Green even if he is worse defensively he's still off the charts offensivly 4. Markov in Montreal is very underated, elite offense and a above average defensively 5/6. Nieds/Pronger with their play down the stretch and in the PO, they still have to be in the running 7. Boyle, another underated all around Dman with elite offense

Then I'd have Bow in with guys like Weber/Kieth/Rafalski/Striet.

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#98 Ogden Brother
May 01 2009, 01:08PM
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Hemmertime wrote:

Ya, The Florida aspect people dont see him, also means he is part of the South-least. Id put Jbo top ten-15 without hesitation saying he is a #1 guy. But top 5 in league is pressing it is my point. Vis is a comparable, they different styles but JBos 471GP 203 PTs -27 vs 549 GP 310 Pts +17, sure Lubo played on a better team, but wasnt Det by any measure

Lubo played on some Lotto eligble Kings teams too.

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#99 yo
May 01 2009, 01:09PM
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Jason Gregor wrote:

yo wrote: The Blackhawk’s climb back into the ring may be a perfectly logical and the most practical way to re-build a team in a salary-cap era. Impatience, could be fatal in the long run from both the fan and team perspective. I love how you guys think they had this great rebuilding plan. JG - Where did I say that? Who the heck is 'You guys' I am speaking for myself. However the Hawks development succeeded in some areas and bombed in others it's one hell of a lot better result than several Canadian teams who live nearby. Nowhere did I say the Hawks had some miraculous plan or did I suggest that 4 years of 'sucking' guarantees anything. On occasion you demonstrate a hair trigger lip.
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#100 Ogden Brother
May 01 2009, 01:09PM
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RossCreek wrote:

A better question: For his age group, who is better than Bou? Not too many names that I’d clearly argue for. I’d prob take Shea Weber ahead of him, but who else?

Neon Dion is pretty underated after this past year, the guy is top end.

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