NCFOM II: Jagr Revisited

Robin Brownlee
May 01 2009 12:21AM

jagr_khl

So, Jaromir Jagr could see himself in Edmonton Oilers colours, could he? I bet he could, as long as there's lots of green to go along with the copper and blue he suddenly seems to be fond of.

After sounding thoroughly disinterested a few months ago about overtures made by president of hockey operations Kevin Lowe, Jagr has the hearts of some Oilers fans all a-titter now that's he's apparently cozied up to the idea of all that green, ahem, I mean copper and blue.

Thursday at the IIHF World Championships, Jagr was quoted in the National Post as saying: "That was really exciting when I heard Edmonton pushed really hard to get me, I really appreciate it.

"I want to thank those guys (in Edmonton). And, if I ever got there (back in the NHL), they would be my No. 1 pick because they showed me the interest first. I never forget that. I respect that and they would be my first pick."

Really? Is that so? Is that right? It seems to me Jagr's flip-flop on interest by the Oilers is equalled only by the KHL's reversal of financial fortune. Wasn't it just a few months ago Jagr shrugged off Edmonton?

He said: "Yes such an opportunity really existed. The teams had discussed how that could be fulfilled. But it did not depend on me. Should Omsk ask me to join Edmonton, I'd do that, but that was not something I desired myself."

Now, apparently, he does.

Sign the papers, old man

Already 37 and several years removed from his prime, Jagr still has one year remaining on his contract with Omsk of the KHL and indicated he intends, at least for now, to honour it.

That would mean Mario Junior would be nearing his 39th birthday by the time he signs for a stack of cash, I mean pulls on a jersey, with the Oilers. What would it take to get Jagr? One season at $6 million, $7 million?

I wrote back on March 10 that I think pursuing Jagr and trying to turn back the hands of time is a waste of money and effort for the Oilers, and I don't feel any different about it today. The reasons remains the same.

What, there won't be a player available as a UFA this summer for $6 million who's got more in the tank and can be a part of the future of organization for more than a year? Jagr, in what looks to me like a money grab and nothing more, is GM Steve Tambellini's best option? I think not.

Bad arguments

1. Even if Jagr isn't the player he used to be, he'd be worth that stack of dough because, well, he'd do so much for the image of Edmonton as a destination for unrestricted free agents. We have, after all, been shunned often and by many. You can't put a price on esteem.

Well, no. Putting together a team capable of competing for a Stanley Cup would do far more in terms of attracting UFAs -- welcome to the Motor City Marian Hossa -- than paying sucker money to a once-great player a decade past his prime. Works OK in Detroit, no?

2. So what if Jagr only has 27 points at Christmas? The young players on the roster need a mentor and Jagr would be great. He's a leader of young men and that's what's been lacking around here. Think about the kids. How else are Sam Gagner and Andrew Cogliano supposed to develop?

I don't know, how did Jonathan Toews and Patrick Kane manage without a $7-million nanny wearing a jock in Chicago? Who did Rick Nash learn from in Columbus, Jody Shelley? Alex Ovechkin figured it out in Washington without having Father Time on the wing.

3. Still, even if Jagr was in it only for the money and it turned out he wasn't even a legitimate top-six forward any more, it would be really cool to bring him in just to say we did.

No. Jagr's mullet in the 1990s was cool. Winning is cool. Looking ahead instead of back over your shoulder is cool. Having a long-term plan and taking some lumps in the short-term to do it right and make it work is cool. I don't think Jagr fits into that.

Somebody might pay Jagr's price, but it shouldn't be the Oilers.

-- Listen to Robin Brownlee every Thursday from 4 to 6pm on Just A Game with Jason Gregor on TEAM 1260.

Aceb4a1816f5fa09879a023b07d1a9b4
A sports writer since 1983, including stints at The Edmonton Journal and The Sun 1989-2007, I happily co-host the Jason Gregor Show on TSN 1260 twice a week and write when so inclined. Have the best damn lawn on the internet. Most important, I am Sam's dad. Follow me on Twitter at Robin_Brownlee. Or don't.
Avatar
#101 topshelf
May 01 2009, 01:16PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

@ RossCreek: Exactly. He is one of the elite young defenseman in the league. That's why it's not accurate to compare him against guys like Pronger/Boyle/Chara and such. He is like 10 years younger than most of those guys.

Avatar
#102 RossCreek
May 01 2009, 01:16PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Ogden Brother wrote:

1. Chara hands down 2. Lidstrom, still have to have him in there 3. Green even if he is worse defensively he’s still off the charts offensivly 4. Markov in Montreal is very underated, elite offense and a above average defensively 5/6. Nieds/Pronger with their play down the stretch and in the PO, they still have to be in the running 7. Boyle, another underated all around Dman with elite offense Then I’d have Bow in with guys like Weber/Kieth/Rafalski/Striet.

Not too shabby. My question: how many of those guys are just heading into their prime? Green's the only guy on that list. We've both thrown Weber's name in the mix, and I think Keith (& Seabrook) are underrated. Still, to get your hands on a defenseman that size, with that skill, with the ability to play all those minutes... you gotta do it. As a Flames fan, Dion's name took a serious beating this year. We'll see where he fits in on that list a year from now, but he's nowhere near the top right now (he's not even close to being an Olympian at this point).

Avatar
#103 nboilerfan
May 01 2009, 01:17PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

I certainly didn't read all the comments and it likely has been stated already but I think the Jagr chasing was more about simply helping the team make the playoffs this season which Lowe & Co. stated was the goal and expectancy… and it finally was coming to light that there was a very good chance this team wasn’t going to get there.

I just don’t see Tambellini and Co. being quite so keen to sign Jagr for next season and beyond. Not saying it won’t happen, I just don’t see it being a high priority.

Avatar
#104 Ogden Brother
May 01 2009, 01:19PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Interesting point for those that put alot of emphasis on quality of team/teamates.

On the best team in the East and the #1PP in the league Mark Striet put up

.16 GPG

.77 PPG

On the worst team in the league (that resembled and AHL team down the stretch) he put up:

.22 GPG

.76 PPG

Avatar
#105 Ogden Brother
May 01 2009, 01:22PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

RossCreek wrote:

Ogden Brother wrote: 1. Chara hands down 2. Lidstrom, still have to have him in there 3. Green even if he is worse defensively he’s still off the charts offensivly 4. Markov in Montreal is very underated, elite offense and a above average defensively 5/6. Nieds/Pronger with their play down the stretch and in the PO, they still have to be in the running 7. Boyle, another underated all around Dman with elite offense Then I’d have Bow in with guys like Weber/Kieth/Rafalski/Striet. Not too shabby. My question: how many of those guys are just heading into their prime? Green’s the only guy on that list. We’ve both thrown Weber’s name in the mix, and I think Keith (& Seabrook) are underrated. Still, to get your hands on a defenseman that size, with that skill, with the ability to play all those minutes… you gotta do it. As a Flames fan, Dion’s name took a serious beating this year. We’ll see where he fits in on that list a year from now, but he’s nowhere near the top right now (he’s not even close to being an Olympian at this point).

The debate wasn't best dman under 29. It was best dman.

Avatar
#106 Jason Gregor
May 01 2009, 01:26PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

yo wrote:

However the Hawks development succeeded in some areas and bombed in others it’s one hell of a lot better result than several Canadian teams who live nearby. Nowhere did I say the Hawks had some miraculous plan or did I suggest that 4 years of ’sucking’ guarantees anything. On occasion you demonstrate a hair trigger lip.

First of all...learn how to quote the text...it is easier to read...haha

Ok...YOu said it was a much better way to develop. What have they developed other than one year in the playoffs since 2002? And with the Huet and Campbell horrendous contracts and the cap going down, YOU, nor anyone can say it is the blueprint for success because they have only had one year of it to date. Will they make the playoffs next year? I would think so, but after that how will there team look.

Signing Jagr to a one year deal, is not an automatic sign of desperation. If playing with Hemsky for a year makes HEmsky better for the next five then it is worth it. Strudwick stated that Jagr was a good guy in the room. His story of how Jagr made him a stick before every game was hilarious. A 600+ goal scorer going in the back room and shaving down, working on a stick of a career 11 goal scorer at the time shows he isn't just a ME guy.

My point about the Hawks was what exactly was this great development plan they had. Suck balls for four years, then make some ridiculously great trades...The plan isn't as cut and dried or as practical as you stated it was. I noticed how you completely left out the argument of Sharp, Versteeg and the overpayments.

Don't highlight one line of my response and make it look like that is everything I said, when clearly I had some substance to my point.

Avatar
#107 RossCreek
May 01 2009, 01:28PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Ogden Brother wrote:

Mark Striet

He's good and Montreal was bone-headed to let him leave. I'm not sure that I view him as highly as you though.

Ogden Brother wrote:

The debate wasn’t best dman under 29. It was best dman.

Correct. I added commentary as to why you'd want to get Bou though. A guy like him still headed into his prime (much like Hemsky), would be a great addition. I actually don't mind your list.

I know there's a love-in for Lubo here, but if I were the Oil, my masterplan would involve signing J-Bo & moving Lubo for a high-end forward. Asset management 101.

Avatar
#108 topshelf
May 01 2009, 01:29PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

roughneck wrote:

topshelf wrote: @ Hemmertime: Campbell is not better than JayBo werd……..just ask Scotty Bowman

huh?

Avatar
#109 Jason Gregor
May 01 2009, 01:31PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Ogden Brother wrote:

The debate wasn’t best dman under 29. It was best dman.

And you said Markov is better than Bouwmeester. Based on what exactly??? His game is more than just stats. Take away Pronger's PP points, and he doesn't put up many five on five, does that make him less effective. Of course not.

Put Bouwmeester on a team with some talent and you'll be shocked at how good he is. Florida has little talent compared to what Green plays with in Wash, Lidstrom in Det, The Rake in ANA and so on. Bouwmeester can play 28 minutes a night, and he plays a busy 28 minutes. He jumps in the play, he leads the rush sometimes. When he signs with a team where he gets more exposure don't be surprised if everyone starts talking about him. Right now he is probably one of the most underrated players in the game.

Avatar
#110 Ogden Brother
May 01 2009, 01:31PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

RossCreek wrote:

Ogden Brother wrote: I know there’s a love-in for Lubo here, but if I were the Oil, my masterplan would involve signing J-Bo & moving Lubo for a high-end forward. Asset management 101.

Obviously, if theirs a trade for any of our players that can replaced for free (asset wise) on the market, then you make it.

Avatar
#111 kingsblade
May 01 2009, 01:31PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Ogden Brother wrote:

Neon Dion is pretty underated after this past year, the guy is top end.

Actually the opposite rings more true. The guy has been startlingly overrated until this year when people finally have begun to realize what a tool he is.

I still laugh every time the Flames play the Ducks so I can watch how afraid he is of Getzlaff. (anyone who watched them play against each other in Junior probably knows what I'm talking about)

Avatar
#112 RossCreek
May 01 2009, 01:33PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

I gotta agree with Gregor on the Hawks. They got lucky (and unlucky as Gregor points out with Malkin). It's not like it was a well thought out error-proof plan. And is there not some talk Dale Tallon could lose his job over some of the bad moves. Might be slightly politically motivated too, somewhat like the Savard-Quenneville move (I'm not sure who would supposedly take over for Tallon or if they even have a guy in mind-Rick Dudley?).

*Sometimes you gotta be good to be lucky, and sometimes you gotta be lucky to be good*

Avatar
#113 Ogden Brother
May 01 2009, 01:36PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Jason Gregor wrote:

Ogden Brother wrote: The debate wasn’t best dman under 29. It was best dman. And you said Markov is better than Bouwmeester. Based on what exactly??? His game is more than just stats. Take away Pronger’s PP points, and he doesn’t put up many five on five, does that make him less effective. Of course not. Put Bouwmeester on a team with some talent and you’ll be shocked at how good he is. Florida has little talent compared to what Green plays with in Wash, Lidstrom in Det, The Rake in ANA and so on. Bouwmeester can play 28 minutes a night, and he plays a busy 28 minutes. He jumps in the play, he leads the rush sometimes. When he signs with a team where he gets more exposure don’t be surprised if everyone starts talking about him. Right now he is probably one of the most underrated players in the game.

Based on what is Bo better then Markov?

I don't put a whole bunch of faith in the quality of teamate argument.

(Stiet from Mon to NYI/Hossa from Ott to Atl/St Louis putting up more points (at an older age) with the 2nd worst team in the league then with a PO team) etc etc etc. Besides, Florida wasn't that bad this year.

Anyway, I'd comfortably put him top 10 - 12 but feel top 5 is a stretch.

Avatar
#114 RossCreek
May 01 2009, 01:37PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

@ Jason Gregor: Agreed.

Which is why I made such a big deal about Seabrook a few days back. Guys like that are more valuable than any stat says he is.

Avatar
#115 Ogden Brother
May 01 2009, 01:37PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

kingsblade wrote:

Ogden Brother wrote: Neon Dion is pretty underated after this past year, the guy is top end. Actually the opposite rings more true. The guy has been startlingly overrated until this year when people finally have begun to realize what a tool he is. I still laugh every time the Flames play the Ducks so I can watch how afraid he is of Getzlaff. (anyone who watched them play against each other in Junior probably knows what I’m talking about)

Ya he was overated coming into this year, one bad year and everyone talks like he's a hack. I'd still bet he has a Norris in him before he's done.

Avatar
#116 Archaeologuy
May 01 2009, 01:38PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

RossCreek wrote:

Asset management 101.

You know I dont always agree with your Asset management ideas ;)

But IF JBo signed in Edmonton one of Gilbert/Souray/Vis would likely need to go because there would be too much money committed and too many Offensive Dmen back there. I think Vis has the highest Salary, but I wonder if his trade value is higher than Gilbert because Gilbert is younger and comes cheaper. Not that bad of a problem to have though.

Avatar
#117 Jonathan Willis
May 01 2009, 01:41PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

RE: Markov vs. Bouwmeester

Both are obviously good players, but Markov was the most important player on that Montreal team this year; they were far worse without him than with him.

Avatar
#118 Ogden Brother
May 01 2009, 01:42PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Jonathan Willis wrote:

RE: Markov vs. Bouwmeester Both are obviously good players, but Markov was the most important player on that Montreal team this year; they were far worse without him than with him.

I believe the went 0 - whatever without him?

Avatar
#119 RossCreek
May 01 2009, 01:45PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Ogden Brother wrote:

Ya he was overated coming into this year, one bad year and everyone talks like he’s a hack. I’d still bet he has a Norris in him before he’s done.

Wow! Twice in one day OB. I didn't want to be the one to say it, but I'm not too worried about Dion yet (aside from health). Talk of trading him is absolutely ludacris. I bet he takes a giant leap forward with Brent Sutter as his coach (~)

Avatar
#120 Ogden Brother
May 01 2009, 01:46PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Jonathan Willis wrote:

RE: Markov vs. Bouwmeester Both are obviously good players, but Markov was the most important player on that Montreal team this year; they were far worse without him than with him.

Markov was also second on his team for scoring (1 behind Kovalev), while Bow was 6th on his, on teams that finished tied for points in the standings. Makes it hard to say Markov is playing with noticably better team.

Avatar
#121 Ogden Brother
May 01 2009, 01:48PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

RossCreek wrote:

Ogden Brother wrote: Ya he was overated coming into this year, one bad year and everyone talks like he’s a hack. I’d still bet he has a Norris in him before he’s done. Wow! Twice in one day OB. I didn’t want to be the one to say it, but I’m not too worried about Dion yet (aside from health). Talk of trading him is absolutely ludacris. I bet he takes a giant leap forward with Brent Sutter as his coach (~)

Maybe you'll come to your sense and realize Seabrook and Ladd aren't superstars ;)

Avatar
#122 RossCreek
May 01 2009, 01:49PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Archaeologuy wrote:

You know I dont always agree with your Asset management ideas But IF JBo signed in Edmonton one of Gilbert/Souray/Vis would likely need to go because there would be too much money committed and too many Offensive Dmen back there. I think Vis has the highest Salary, but I wonder if his trade value is higher than Gilbert because Gilbert is younger and comes cheaper. Not that bad of a problem to have though.

LOL.

Wouldn't you consider moving both Visnovsky & Gilbert then? There's already consideration of moving Gilbert without adding J-Bo, so I'd assume that if you added J-Bo, you'd not only still move Gilbert, but also move Visnovsky for J-Bo's cap space? Or not? That logic would make sense, wouldn't it?

Avatar
#123 RossCreek
May 01 2009, 01:54PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Ogden Brother wrote:

Maybe you’ll come to your sense and realize Seabrook and Ladd aren’t superstars

Never said they were superstars. But Seabrook is highly underrated IMO, and Ladd is no slouch. Given the current make up of this Oil team and given Tambellini's said desire's, that certainly would be a trade I wouldn't hesitate on making. My comments today about J-Bo would tend to support what I've been saying about Seabrook.

RossCreek wrote:

Still, to get your hands on a defenseman that size, with that skill, with the ability to play all those minutes… you gotta do it.
Avatar
#124 Chris
May 01 2009, 01:57PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

RossCreek wrote:

Wouldn’t you consider moving both Visnovsky & Gilbert then? There’s already consideration of moving Gilbert without adding J-Bo, so I’d assume that if you added J-Bo, you’d not only still move Gilbert, but also move Visnovsky for J-Bo’s cap space? Or not? That logic would make sense, wouldn’t it?

Pretty tough on the Oilers if J-Bo doesn't work out (a'la' Lupul) or demands a trade one year into his contract (a'la Pronger)...

Avatar
#125 Ogden Brother
May 01 2009, 01:58PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

RossCreek wrote:

Archaeologuy wrote: You know I dont always agree with your Asset management ideas But IF JBo signed in Edmonton one of Gilbert/Souray/Vis would likely need to go because there would be too much money committed and too many Offensive Dmen back there. I think Vis has the highest Salary, but I wonder if his trade value is higher than Gilbert because Gilbert is younger and comes cheaper. Not that bad of a problem to have though. LOL. Wouldn’t you consider moving both Visnovsky & Gilbert then? There’s already consideration of moving Gilbert without adding J-Bo, so I’d assume that if you added J-Bo, you’d not only still move Gilbert, but also move Visnovsky for J-Bo’s cap space? Or not? That logic would make sense, wouldn’t it?

If Bow was coming here, I'd want two of Lubo/Gilbert/Grebs shipped out.

Avatar
#126 RossCreek
May 01 2009, 01:59PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Which is why I'm not so sure of the Tavares-Hedman debate. I think it would be rather interesting to see what everybody would be saying if Tavares was the Swede and Hedman was the Canadian. I'm sure the "you gotta take the high-end defenseman over the high-end forward" line would be used a plenty. Its interesting to note how some scouting services have dropped Tavares to 2nd or 3rd. I'm not saying he shouldn't be the 1st pick, but I'm definately not sure that he should be.

Avatar
#127 Archaeologuy
May 01 2009, 02:00PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

RossCreek wrote:

Wouldn’t you consider moving both Visnovsky & Gilbert then?

yes, it makes sense. I would hope that if JBo wants to come back to Edmonton he wouldnt hold them hostage and demand 6 mill a season, because there will be competition for him. For example, I imagine that Montreal would be throwing wads of cash at him to make up for losing Streit and Souray over the last few years.

Either way, If the Oil dont get Bou and move Gilb or if they get Bou and move 2 guys they will still need another top 4 Dman. It will probably need to be a defensively reliable guy who is tough on opposition. I dont know if they believe Smid will be that guy, though I like Smid. If 2 of those guys are moved I would imagine that rebuilding the top 6 would become much easier.

Avatar
#128 RossCreek
May 01 2009, 02:00PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

@ Ogden Brother: 3 times. We're on a roll.

Avatar
#129 RossCreek
May 01 2009, 02:01PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

@ Archaeologuy: Good then, so we're all on the same page. How does Bryan Allen sound as the #4?

Avatar
#130 Chris
May 01 2009, 02:04PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Ogden Brother wrote:

If Bow was coming here, I’d want two of Lubo/Gilbert/Grebs shipped out

What does Tambellini do if J-Bo blows out his knee or seperates his shoulder in november? What does Tambellini do if J-Bo decides playing at home isn't all it's cracked up to be and demands a trade? I'd be hesitant to turn two top four guys into one. The Oilers don't have a pile of depth in the event J-Bo doesn't work out...

Avatar
#131 Robin Brownlee
May 01 2009, 02:05PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Jay wrote:

@ Robin Who exactly on the Oilers roster are comparables to Toews, or Patrick Kane, or Rick Nash, or Ovechkin? No one right? Right. There isn’t one Oiler you wouldn’t give up to get any of those 4. Remember it’s no different than Zetterberg, Holmstrom, Dadtsyuk, or Franzen needed Yzerman to learn from. Jagr is several years removed from his prime? Perhaps. In Jagrs last 4 NHL seasons, 323 games (82 games each the last 3 seasons). 140 goals. 224 assists. 364 points in 323 games. He’s not looking like he’s finished either.

What's your point? I'm not comparing anybody on the Oilers to Kane or Nash. The point is young players can and do develop without overpaying some aging former star to mentor them. And it's TOTALLY different than the Red Wings you listed because the players I named didn't have an Yzerman to mentor them and they turned out fine, no?

I don't care about Jagr's last four NHL seasons. I care about the one that starts in 2010 when Jagr is approaching 39 and starts cashing cheques on a salary of $5-7 million with the cap headed south. If Jagr needs money to pay off his bookie, let him get it somewhere else.

Avatar
#132 Archaeologuy
May 01 2009, 02:06PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

@ RossCreek: Move over Tambi, we're takin the wheel of the good ship Oiler

Avatar
#133 RossCreek
May 01 2009, 02:06PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Archaeologuy wrote:

I would hope that if JBo wants to come back to Edmonton he wouldnt hold them hostage and demand 6 mill a season

There, found something i disagree with. Well not really disagree, I just think he'll be getting in the 6, 6.25, 6.5, 6.75 range. I think the best you could hope for is that he's willing to come home for under 6.5.

Avatar
#134 Ogden Brother
May 01 2009, 02:07PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Archaeologuy wrote:

RossCreek wrote: Wouldn’t you consider moving both Visnovsky & Gilbert then? yes, it makes sense. I would hope that if JBo wants to come back to Edmonton he wouldnt hold them hostage and demand 6 mill a season, because there will be competition for him. For example, I imagine that Montreal would be throwing wads of cash at him to make up for losing Streit and Souray over the last few years. Either way, If the Oil dont get Bou and move Gilb or if they get Bou and move 2 guys they will still need another top 4 Dman. It will probably need to be a defensively reliable guy who is tough on opposition. I dont know if they believe Smid will be that guy, though I like Smid. If 2 of those guys are moved I would imagine that rebuilding the top 6 would become much easier.

Volchenkov from Ott would be great. Some sort of Vish+Gagner for Spezza+Volchenkov would be interesting.

Avatar
#135 RossCreek
May 01 2009, 02:09PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

@ Chris: Do you think that 1 of the top 4 should be moved as it is? If so, then by adding another top 4 guy, wouldn't it be safe to bet maybe they'd move 2 of their previous top 4?

Avatar
#136 Ogden Brother
May 01 2009, 02:09PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Chris wrote:

Ogden Brother wrote: If Bow was coming here, I’d want two of Lubo/Gilbert/Grebs shipped out What does Tambellini do if J-Bo blows out his knee or seperates his shoulder in november? What does Tambellini do if J-Bo decides playing at home isn’t all it’s cracked up to be and demands a trade? I’d be hesitant to turn two top four guys into one. The Oilers don’t have a pile of depth in the event J-Bo doesn’t work out…

What happens if any top players blow out a knee? I would like the team to even out our offensive/defensive ratio this summer... if Bow comes in, and the team wants to accomplish that, two offensive guys would have to go out.

Avatar
#137 Chris
May 01 2009, 02:10PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

@ Robin Brownlee:

I thought this Jager thing was a Lowe/Katz deal. Does Tambellini want his first REALLY big splash as a GM to be signing a guy like Jager? What a hill to die on if things go poorly.

Avatar
#138 Archaeologuy
May 01 2009, 02:14PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Chris wrote:

Ogden Brother wrote: If Bow was coming here, I’d want two of Lubo/Gilbert/Grebs shipped out What does Tambellini do if J-Bo blows out his knee or seperates his shoulder in november? What does Tambellini do if J-Bo decides playing at home isn’t all it’s cracked up to be and demands a trade? I’d be hesitant to turn two top four guys into one. The Oilers don’t have a pile of depth in the event J-Bo doesn’t work out…

You cant NOT sign a guy because he might get hurt or want to leave. No one would sign free agents if that happened. And the Oilers would have a a D-Corp with Souray, JBo, and Grebeshkov as their top 3. As already mentioned, another top 4 Dman would need to be acquired even if only one of those guys was moved. Plus, if it were a perfect world and the Oilers didnt need to worry about the Cap they could keep everyone. But in reality if more high end guys are added to the Defense then salary needs to be moved out BEFORE the team is crippled by the Cap, a la Flames.

Avatar
#139 RossCreek
May 01 2009, 02:16PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

I find this Jagr talk kinda like still being at the bar when the lights come on, and then suddenly quickly glancing across the room to find that oh-so-special person thats qualified to spend the night with. Head for the homestead, rub one out, call it a nite, and wake up happy (alone) the next morning.

Avatar
#140 Chris
May 01 2009, 02:18PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

RossCreek wrote:

Do you think that 1 of the top 4 should be moved as it is?

No. Not necessarily. I like the depth the Oilers have in puck moving defencemen... Last season, with Lubo already out; we all missed a breath when Plekanec slew foot Grebs. Ogden Brother wrote:

What happens if any top players blow out a knee?

In the salary cap world it is a hardship for any team to lose a top player... particularly if THAT player is a guy for whom you gave up TWO top players. It's my opinion that the Oilers lack the depth to give up quality assets in two for one deals right now... Now if you're talking about moving Penner and a top four D-man to sign J-Bo... then deal away! Not likely though.

Avatar
#141 Chris
May 01 2009, 02:21PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Archaeologuy wrote:

You cant NOT sign a guy because he might get hurt or want to leave. No one would sign free agents if that happened.

Sure sign the guy. But not if you have to get rid of too many other quality assets to do so. It's called putting too many eggs in one basket. Bring in J-Bo... move out Visnovsky. But don't move out Visnovsky AND Gilbert.... It's a big risk.

Avatar
#142 Ogden Brother
May 01 2009, 02:21PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Chris wrote:

RossCreek wrote: Do you think that 1 of the top 4 should be moved as it is? No. Not necessarily. I like the depth the Oilers have in puck moving defencemen… Last season, with Lubo already out; we all missed a breath when Plekanec slew foot Grebs. Ogden Brother wrote: What happens if any top players blow out a knee? In the salary cap world it is a hardship for any team to lose a top player… particularly if THAT player is a guy for whom you gave up TWO top players. It’s my opinion that the Oilers lack the depth to give up quality assets in two for one deals right now… Now if you’re talking about moving Penner and a top four D-man to sign J-Bo… then deal away! Not likely though.

You know were not trading Gilbert and Vishnosky for Bo right? They both don't go away with only Bo showing up.

Just for $hits and giggles, say we can land Volchenkov for Gilbert and Nathan Horton for Vis.

Bo comes for free (asset wise)

I'll take Bo/Horton/Volchenkov over Vish/Gilbert anyday.

Avatar
#143 RossCreek
May 01 2009, 02:22PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Chris wrote:

particularly if THAT player is a guy for whom you gave up TWO top players.

Those 2 players could be moved for other assets. It's not like you're losing Gilbert & Visnovsky, adding Bouwmeester and that's it. If you're able to add a guy like Simon Gagne in a deal involving 1 of those d-men, do you not think they're a better team with Gagne & Bouwmeester instead?

Avatar
#144 Robin Brownlee
May 01 2009, 02:25PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Chris wrote:

@ Robin Brownlee: I thought this Jager thing was a Lowe/Katz deal. Does Tambellini want his first REALLY big splash as a GM to be signing a guy like Jager? What a hill to die on if things go poorly.

I don't know what Tambellini thinks about this because I haven't asked him. I hope he doesn't share the inferiority complex inherent in so many Oilers fans who are willing to scoff at logic and probability -- that Jagr can't possibly live up to a $5-7 million contract at this point in his career -- because they're desperate to have a "name" player, no matter how faded, sign in Edmonton.

Avatar
#145 topshelf
May 01 2009, 02:30PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Robin Brownlee wrote:

that Jagr can’t possibly live up to a $5-7 million contract at this point in his career

Is it stated anywhere that this is the type of money needed to get him signed? (not trying to pick a fight, just wondering...)

Avatar
#146 Chris
May 01 2009, 02:30PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

@ Ogden Brother:

Oh I get it. J-Bo is a UFA. But if you have to dump two of your other top four D to create the cap space necessary to make the deal happen... then J-Bo is simply too expensive. Personally I'd like Tambellini to explain to Penner that he had better come to camp in TOP condition... or spend the rest of his career in Springfield. THAT is how you either address your need for an effective top six forward, or free up space to upgrade a guy like Gilbert into J-Bo... But If you look at what happened in Calgary this season, or Vancouver last season, It's important to have a LEAST four legitimate top quality D-men.

Avatar
#147 Archaeologuy
May 01 2009, 02:31PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

@ Chris: I hear you, but you wouldnt be sending out guys for nothing, and really it all depends on the Salary Cap landscape and what Tambi can get for Vis or Gilb. I also liked the Oilers D last season. Now if they could acquire a Beauchemin-type player who was obviously top 4 and shuts guys down then it might be worth changing the makeup of the D. JBo would also be a very high priced addition to an already expensive Defense.

Avatar
#148 Ogden Brother
May 01 2009, 02:35PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Robin Brownlee wrote:

Chris wrote: @ Robin Brownlee: I thought this Jager thing was a Lowe/Katz deal. Does Tambellini want his first REALLY big splash as a GM to be signing a guy like Jager? What a hill to die on if things go poorly. I don’t know what Tambellini thinks about this because I haven’t asked him. I hope he doesn’t share the inferiority complex inherent in so many Oilers fans who are willing to scoff at logic and probability — that Jagr can’t possibly live up to a $5-7 million contract at this point in his career — because they’re desperate to have a “name” player, no matter how faded, sign in Edmonton.

I'm not really sure what's so illogical about it. Again, if it's for one year (and I think most on here that are talking about him coming are assuming it's for 09/10 season). The money really isn't that big of a deal, he doesn't need to put up 75 points he just needs to be better then what we have.

Avatar
#149 RossCreek
May 01 2009, 02:37PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

@ Chris: I get what your saying, but you don't have to move both to create the cap room. Vis makes 5.6. J-Bo likely comes in within 1 mil of that, so moving Visnovsky out for additional assests means you maybe have to create a mil somewhere to add Bou. Bobby "Soft-as-toffee" Nilsson makes 2. Sayanora.

Avatar
#150 Ogden Brother
May 01 2009, 02:37PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Chris wrote:

@ Ogden Brother: Oh I get it. J-Bo is a UFA. But if you have to dump two of your other top four D to create the cap space necessary to make the deal happen… then J-Bo is simply too expensive. Personally I’d like Tambellini to explain to Penner that he had better come to camp in TOP condition… or spend the rest of his career in Springfield. THAT is how you either address your need for an effective top six forward, or free up space to upgrade a guy like Gilbert into J-Bo… But If you look at what happened in Calgary this season, or Vancouver last season, It’s important to have a LEAST four legitimate top quality D-men.

I think you are missing the point that we will get assets back for Vis and Gilbert (and likely high quality assets as both players should have some cache). Just because those two leave, doesn't mean a cheaper stay at home top 4 caliber guy isn't coming back.

Comments are closed for this article.