NCFOM II: Jagr Revisited

Robin Brownlee
May 01 2009 12:21AM

jagr_khl

So, Jaromir Jagr could see himself in Edmonton Oilers colours, could he? I bet he could, as long as there's lots of green to go along with the copper and blue he suddenly seems to be fond of.

After sounding thoroughly disinterested a few months ago about overtures made by president of hockey operations Kevin Lowe, Jagr has the hearts of some Oilers fans all a-titter now that's he's apparently cozied up to the idea of all that green, ahem, I mean copper and blue.

Thursday at the IIHF World Championships, Jagr was quoted in the National Post as saying: "That was really exciting when I heard Edmonton pushed really hard to get me, I really appreciate it.

"I want to thank those guys (in Edmonton). And, if I ever got there (back in the NHL), they would be my No. 1 pick because they showed me the interest first. I never forget that. I respect that and they would be my first pick."

Really? Is that so? Is that right? It seems to me Jagr's flip-flop on interest by the Oilers is equalled only by the KHL's reversal of financial fortune. Wasn't it just a few months ago Jagr shrugged off Edmonton?

He said: "Yes such an opportunity really existed. The teams had discussed how that could be fulfilled. But it did not depend on me. Should Omsk ask me to join Edmonton, I'd do that, but that was not something I desired myself."

Now, apparently, he does.

Sign the papers, old man

Already 37 and several years removed from his prime, Jagr still has one year remaining on his contract with Omsk of the KHL and indicated he intends, at least for now, to honour it.

That would mean Mario Junior would be nearing his 39th birthday by the time he signs for a stack of cash, I mean pulls on a jersey, with the Oilers. What would it take to get Jagr? One season at $6 million, $7 million?

I wrote back on March 10 that I think pursuing Jagr and trying to turn back the hands of time is a waste of money and effort for the Oilers, and I don't feel any different about it today. The reasons remains the same.

What, there won't be a player available as a UFA this summer for $6 million who's got more in the tank and can be a part of the future of organization for more than a year? Jagr, in what looks to me like a money grab and nothing more, is GM Steve Tambellini's best option? I think not.

Bad arguments

1. Even if Jagr isn't the player he used to be, he'd be worth that stack of dough because, well, he'd do so much for the image of Edmonton as a destination for unrestricted free agents. We have, after all, been shunned often and by many. You can't put a price on esteem.

Well, no. Putting together a team capable of competing for a Stanley Cup would do far more in terms of attracting UFAs -- welcome to the Motor City Marian Hossa -- than paying sucker money to a once-great player a decade past his prime. Works OK in Detroit, no?

2. So what if Jagr only has 27 points at Christmas? The young players on the roster need a mentor and Jagr would be great. He's a leader of young men and that's what's been lacking around here. Think about the kids. How else are Sam Gagner and Andrew Cogliano supposed to develop?

I don't know, how did Jonathan Toews and Patrick Kane manage without a $7-million nanny wearing a jock in Chicago? Who did Rick Nash learn from in Columbus, Jody Shelley? Alex Ovechkin figured it out in Washington without having Father Time on the wing.

3. Still, even if Jagr was in it only for the money and it turned out he wasn't even a legitimate top-six forward any more, it would be really cool to bring him in just to say we did.

No. Jagr's mullet in the 1990s was cool. Winning is cool. Looking ahead instead of back over your shoulder is cool. Having a long-term plan and taking some lumps in the short-term to do it right and make it work is cool. I don't think Jagr fits into that.

Somebody might pay Jagr's price, but it shouldn't be the Oilers.

-- Listen to Robin Brownlee every Thursday from 4 to 6pm on Just A Game with Jason Gregor on TEAM 1260.

Aceb4a1816f5fa09879a023b07d1a9b4
A sports writer since 1983, including stints at The Edmonton Journal and The Sun 1989-2007, I happily co-host the Jason Gregor Show on TSN 1260 twice a week and write when so inclined. Have the best damn lawn on the internet. Most important, I am Sam's dad. Follow me on Twitter at Robin_Brownlee. Or don't.
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#151 Robin Brownlee
May 01 2009, 02:41PM
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Ogden Brother wrote:

I’m not really sure what’s so illogical about it.

That's the problem.

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#152 Chris
May 01 2009, 02:46PM
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Archaeologuy wrote:

JBo would also be a very high priced addition to an already expensive Defense.

This is where we agree. The Oilers D is not in need of an upgrade. If Tambellini loses defensive depth to upgrade to J-Bo he is taking a HUGE risk. Furthermore, I'd be very hesitant to move Gilbert or Grebs for a top six forward unless a legitimate top pairing D-man could come back in a seperate deal/signing. There are other ways to save money and sign help up front without sacrificing depth on the back-end...

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#153 kingsblade
May 01 2009, 02:50PM
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Ogden Brother wrote:

kingsblade wrote: Ogden Brother wrote: Neon Dion is pretty underated after this past year, the guy is top end. Actually the opposite rings more true. The guy has been startlingly overrated until this year when people finally have begun to realize what a tool he is. I still laugh every time the Flames play the Ducks so I can watch how afraid he is of Getzlaff. (anyone who watched them play against each other in Junior probably knows what I’m talking about) Ya he was overated coming into this year, one bad year and everyone talks like he’s a hack. I’d still bet he has a Norris in him before he’s done.

He has always been overrated. He played like a scared b@tch in junior and he plays like one now. Why do you think he ONLY hits guys with their heads down?

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#154 swany
May 01 2009, 02:57PM
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Robin what do you do if Hemmer has asked Tambo to go after JJ, they do seem to work well together (it's the only offence the Czecks have), do you risk pissing off Hemmer and NOT take that chance. Everyone else that has been brought in to play with Hemmer since Smyth left has been a bust.

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#155 Chris
May 01 2009, 02:59PM
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Ogden Brother wrote:

I think you are missing the point that we will get assets back for Vis and Gilbert (and likely high quality assets as both players should have some cache). Just because those two leave, doesn’t mean a cheaper stay at home top 4 caliber guy isn’t coming back.

So you are so unhappy with the performance of the Oilers D last season that you want to turn over TWO of the top four?

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#156 Ogden Brother
May 01 2009, 03:00PM
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Robin Brownlee wrote:

Ogden Brother wrote: I’m not really sure what’s so illogical about it. That’s the problem.

Ha-ha, listen to this guy.

It's the exact same situation as Sundin to Van this year. Has Sundin "lived up to" the 8 (or whatever it was) that he signed for? No chance. Is Van better with him then without? Of course.

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#157 Colin
May 01 2009, 03:01PM
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swany wrote:

Robin what do you do if Hemmer has asked Tambo to go after JJ, they do seem to work well together (it’s the only offence the Czecks have), do you risk pissing off Hemmer and NOT take that chance. Everyone else that has been brought in to play with Hemmer since Smyth left has been a bust.

Last I checked Hemsky isn't the GM. You don't allow players to hold your team hostage like that, Hemsky pulls that, it's bye-bye Hemsky (and good riddance if he would try it).

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#158 kingsblade
May 01 2009, 03:09PM
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Chris wrote:

Ogden Brother wrote: I think you are missing the point that we will get assets back for Vis and Gilbert (and likely high quality assets as both players should have some cache). Just because those two leave, doesn’t mean a cheaper stay at home top 4 caliber guy isn’t coming back. So you are so unhappy with the performance of the Oilers D last season that you want to turn over TWO of the top four?

You keep making it about the defense only, but the point is to try and upgrade upfront without hurting the back end too much. Bow brings a player comparable to a Souray or a Vis who is years younger. Then guys like that can be moved to bring in the much desired talent up front. Smid is ready for the top 4 I believe, and Souray/Vis and Gilbert could potentially bring us some very good assets up front.

The point is that by the time our forwards are good enough to contend our two best defenders will be old. Added to that is the apparent problem with free agent signings. If we cannot sign a top forward to play here but we CAN (remains to be seen) sign J-bow then we sign him and trade someone else for scoring talent.

Why is this such a difficult concept to grasp? What is this risk you keep talking about? How many teams have 4 puck movers in their top 4? I think it's an even bigger risk not having a stopper of sorts on your top 4.

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#159 Robin Brownlee
May 01 2009, 03:12PM
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Ogden Brother wrote:

Robin Brownlee wrote: Ogden Brother wrote: I’m not really sure what’s so illogical about it. That’s the problem. Ha-ha, listen to this guy. It’s the exact same situation as Sundin to Van this year. Has Sundin “lived up to” the 8 (or whatever it was) that he signed for? No chance. Is Van better with him then without? Of course.

Who is "this guy?" What about Sundin makes Vancouver better, or is just the fact the Canucks are enjoying success while he's a member of the team a strong enough connection for you? I'm thinking the Canucks are better because Ryan Walter is an assistant coach this season, or maybe it's because Luongo is using a new hair gel or because the concessions at GM Place have added a hotdog relish that tastes like moose cock. How flimsy can the connection be?

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#160 Quinn
May 01 2009, 03:15PM
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Here's my whole problem with the Jay-Bo discussion. The defense on the Oil was not an area of weakness last year. Why would the Oil go, lose a low(er) priced, quality D to try and swing for the fences on a high-priced guy. They would then have less room for the top-6 signing they seem to believe is necessary and have a depth of defence they can call on (plus, hopefully a Rourke-esque guy in the AHL).

Going after Bouwmeester would be a colossal mistake.

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#161 Ogden Brother
May 01 2009, 03:15PM
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Chris wrote:

Ogden Brother wrote: I think you are missing the point that we will get assets back for Vis and Gilbert (and likely high quality assets as both players should have some cache). Just because those two leave, doesn’t mean a cheaper stay at home top 4 caliber guy isn’t coming back. So you are so unhappy with the performance of the Oilers D last season that you want to turn over TWO of the top four?

I think the team needs a better balance of offense vs defense. Vis/Gilbert/Grebs and Souray are all average defensily at very best (that's being generous). I think the team would be far better off with one of the above out and a Volchenkov/Komiserak type guy in. If Bo comes and no one leaves it compounds the problem. If Bo comes and only one leaves were in the same situation (granted probably upgraded slightly as Bo is better defensively then any of the above.... but the point still stands).

Bo WOULDN't be at the top of my shopping list, but if by chance he does want to come here witout breaking the bank, you have to take him and then deal from what would be a serious position of strength to address other needs.

Really, it all boils down to: do you want 4 offense first guys for call it 18.25 (Grebs at 3.25) or do you want three offens first guys and a defense first guy for call it 16?

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#162 Ogden Brother
May 01 2009, 03:18PM
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Robin Brownlee wrote:

Ogden Brother wrote: Robin Brownlee wrote: Ogden Brother wrote: I’m not really sure what’s so illogical about it. That’s the problem. Ha-ha, listen to this guy. It’s the exact same situation as Sundin to Van this year. Has Sundin “lived up to” the 8 (or whatever it was) that he signed for? No chance. Is Van better with him then without? Of course. Who is “this guy?” What about Sundin makes Vancouver better, or is just the fact the Canucks are enjoying success while he’s a member of the team a strong enough connection for you? I’m thinking the Canucks are better because Ryan Walter is an assistant coach this season, or maybe it’s because Luongo is using a new hair gel or because the concessions at GM Place have added a hotdog relish that tastes like moose cock. How flimsy can the connection be?

Take any top 6 forward and add him to a team light on top 6 forwards (without subtracting something else important) and the team should be better. It's not Sundin (or Jagr) specific. It's about bringing in something better then what you have without sacrificing the future.

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#163 Robin Brownlee
May 01 2009, 03:21PM
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Guys: Out of curiosity, I looked at the statistics the eight players ahead of Jagr in career scoring put up in the seasons in which they played at age 38. There's quite a range. PLAYER GP G A PTS Gretzky 70 9 53 62 Messier 59 13 35 48 Howe 70 29 46 75 Francis 82 15 50 65 Dionne 37 7 16 23 Yzerman 16 2 6 8 Lemieux 10 1 8 9 Sakic 44 13 27 40

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#164 Archaeologuy
May 01 2009, 03:23PM
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@ Quinn: This whole conversation is based on the idea that JBo wants to be an Oiler on his own. The rumour mill out there keeps saying Jay wants to come home. If he does come I would assume that it wouldnt be at top dollar because it wouldnt be the Oilers driving the conversation. If he doesnt really want to be an Oiler then it doesnt matter because you're right. The Oilers' problem wasnt that they didnt have enough elite puck moving defensemen. BUT IMO signing him wont be a collosal mistake. He would give the Oil the ability to move some good assets to fill their actual holes via the trade route.

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#165 Ogden Brother
May 01 2009, 03:24PM
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Robin Brownlee wrote:

Guys: Out of curiosity, I looked at the statistics the eight players ahead of Jagr in career scoring put up in the seasons in which they played at age 38. There’s quite a range. PLAYER GP G A PTS Gretzky 70 9 53 62 Messier 59 13 35 48 Howe 70 29 46 75 Francis 82 15 50 65 Dionne 37 7 16 23 Yzerman 16 2 6 8 Lemieux 10 1 8 9 Sakic 44 13 27 40

They all look pretty good to me. If he gets hurt we get the LTIR.

Jagr at 6

Or

Kotalik at 3.25 and two million in open cap space?

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#166 topshelf
May 01 2009, 03:24PM
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Archaeologuy wrote:

The rumour mill out there keeps saying Jay wants to come home

What rumours are these? The rumour I heard was that he wasn't against coming to play here. Quite a bit different than him stating he wants to play here.

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#167 Archaeologuy
May 01 2009, 03:25PM
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@ Robin Brownlee: On a point per game basis most of those numbers outmatch the majority of the forwards on the Oilers right now.

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#168 Archaeologuy
May 01 2009, 03:28PM
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topshelf wrote:

Archaeologuy wrote: The rumour mill out there keeps saying Jay wants to come home What rumours are these? The rumour I heard was that he wasn’t against coming to play here.

That's why its "The Rumour Mill" and not The Ney York Times. This whole conversation is based on sheer conjecture.

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#169 Tim S
May 01 2009, 03:31PM
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Robin Brownlee wrote:

Guys: Out of curiosity, I looked at the statistics the eight players ahead of Jagr in career scoring put up in the seasons in which they played at age 38. There’s quite a range. PLAYER GP G A PTS Gretzky 70 9 53 62 Messier 59 13 35 48 Howe 70 29 46 75 Francis 82 15 50 65 Dionne 37 7 16 23 Yzerman 16 2 6 8 Lemieux 10 1 8 9 Sakic 44 13 27 40

Yzerman, Lemieux and Sakic were all injured. Gretzky and Messier both had added miles of playoffs, world cups, canada cups and Messier's production was in a steady decline before 38. Francis lacked speed from birth and it did not improve post 30. And the other 2 guys I have no idea they predate my viewership.

I think Jagr has shown that he can still contribute or atleast deserves the chance to show that he can not. Again though they have to be talking THIS summer.

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#170 Harlie
May 01 2009, 03:39PM
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excuse me for sounding like a homer, but I don't want the aging Camaro Crew Cut to use our beloved Oil as a stepping stone to retirement, and or use us as his playtoy if he decides to pack up his balls and run back to North America from the clearly F'd up KHL. I'd take him at 3 million but if he wants 5-6 or more I'd tell him to help himself to a large serving of relish that tastes like moose c*ck! (heck Sundin seems to like that special sauce)

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#171 Quinn
May 01 2009, 03:41PM
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@ Archaeologuy:

I get your point but my thing, based on Robin's comment to me yesterday (hockey players only do what is in their best interest), is that Jay-Bo is going in a sweepstakes this summer and the Oil don't need someone they only get by outbidding. IF they need some better all-around-ness to their defence, there are better, cheaper options out there (all of which escape me at the moment).

My feeling is that the Oil should focus on the tweaks that are a team need (top 6 LW, 2 goalers and depth/physical defence) and stay away from the feeding frenzies on UFA day.

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#172 Robin Brownlee
May 01 2009, 03:41PM
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@ Tim S: Jagr's played 148 playoff games and you might want to look at his international game totals in World Cups, World Championships, Olympics etc before using the wear and tear argument.

Injuries are part of the game and injuries limited four of the eight players listed to under 50 games. That's a factor that has to be considered.

Jagr deserves a chance? He's not looking to donate his services. His entitlement to $5-7 million is based on what?

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#173 Chris
May 01 2009, 03:46PM
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@ kingsblade: @ Ogden Brother:

If J-Bo wants to play here, (BIG IF) AND the Oilers can afford to sign him... Great! Then You can move ONE of the other top four for a top six forward. I don't think Tambellini has the cap room though.

Next scenario. Move ONE of the top four D-men for a top six forward. Acquire another legit D-man to replace the guy you moved. (Damn cap dilemma again!)

Either way, I think it would be a mistake to move TWO of the current top four this offseason. Smid is not ready to be a top four guy starting out. (Though I'm sure he would appreciate the opportunity to step up in the event of an injury) It is counter-productive to move two guys out, then two different guys back in unless you can a)Really upgrade. Or b)save several million dollars by doing so. I'm not sure Tambellini can realistically achieve either.

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#174 GSC
May 01 2009, 03:50PM
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Thank you, Robin, for putting into words my (and I'm sure a good handful of others') sentiments on the possibility of Jagr coming to Edmonton.

Without question, that $6-7 MIL can and should be better spent than on an aging vet who's looking to cash-in one final time.

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#175 Jay
May 01 2009, 03:56PM
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@ Robin Brownlee:

The players you listed didn't need anyone to show them the way. They are special players. The Oilers have no such players. They have players who need to be shown the way a little, not unlike Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and Holmstrom were shown by Yzerman.

Your point was do they need a 7 million dollar nursemaid to show them the way? Yes they do. Nash, Ovechkin, Kane, and Toews do not.

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#176 Archaeologuy
May 01 2009, 03:56PM
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@ Chris: Im sure that Tambi will be looking to shed some of the salary on the team. Penner 4.25, Nilsson 2, O'Sullivan 2.9, Pisani 2.5, Staios 2.7, how many of those guys will be in Edmonton in October? One of the D-men? Stuff will come off the books this summer.

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#177 Chris
May 01 2009, 03:57PM
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GSC wrote:

Without question, that $6-7 MIL can and should be better spent than on an aging vet who’s looking to cash-in one final time.

Where was Jager two years ago when Lowe had all that cash and nobody to spend it on?

I suspect signing Jager would be an ownersip decision and not a "hockey decision" made by Tambellini. Rumors persist that Katz is looking to make a "splash" at free agency. I'm wary of owners who involve themselves too deeply in the hockey operations side of things.

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#178 Chris
May 01 2009, 04:06PM
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@ Archaeologuy:

Move Staios: (2.7 milllion cap hit) Peckham may be ready to fill in for him in the bottom pairing. I don't see anyone in the organization who is ready to step up into the top four. Smid can fill in nicely in the event of an injury... But to start Smid in the top four leaves no allowance/depth for injuries.

As for the forwards... Who knows? There is a world of possibilities. Trade a few. Sign a few. outright release a few. I expect there will be more subtraction than addition. The Oilers have too many forwards... The team will save money just by bringing the total number back in line.

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#179 Archaeologuy
May 01 2009, 04:08PM
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@ Chris: exactly

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#180 Chris
May 01 2009, 04:11PM
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@ Archaeologuy:

We're getting along so well today.

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#181 Jason Gregor
May 01 2009, 04:17PM
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Jonathan Willis wrote:

RE: Markov vs. Bouwmeester Both are obviously good players, but Markov was the most important player on that Montreal team this year; they were far worse without him than with him.

Since Bouwmeester didn't sit out how can you argue that Florida wouldn't have suffered just as much without him? Moot point I think.

Bouwmeester v. Markov...Is a good debate, but the most glaring difference comes in PP points...

Markov had 39 to Bouwmeester's 20. Montreal's PP scored 72 to 51 goals...Markov is more involved in the PP and he played :53 seconds more of PP time every game. That makes a big difference, especially on a team that has a great PP.

ANd OB, to say that teammates don't matter is a bit strange to me.

Hossa went from OTT with skilled teammates to ATL with KOvalchuk and Kozlov...pretty skilled players...

If your PP has more skilled guys, and guys who know how to run a PP, a D-man can see his points improve drastically.

I take Boummeester because of his size and skating ability. His size allows him not to get as tired, and he is more durable.

I'd venture a guess that most have seen Markov more due to CBC and such, and if Bouwmeester goes to a team where you can see him more, I'd expect people to be surprised at just how dominant he is.

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#182 Chris
May 01 2009, 04:37PM
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Here is what I see.

Penner (If he shows up in shape and has a good camp) Horcoff Hemsky.

Coglino Gagner O'Sullivan (The kid line again with an upgrade on Nilsson)

Moreau New third line center. A MUST! Pisani

JF Jaques Brodziak (IF he has a good camp) Stortini

Release Penner if he shows up to camp out of shape. Try to sign or aquire another top six forward to push both Penner and Horcoff. Find someone to push Brodziak (Prospect). The forth line center MUST be more physical. Move Pisani, Moreau, or O'Sullivan at the trade deadline if the team is not in the hunt.

The Oilers need to sign or replace Roli. They need another center. They need another top six guy. Say goodbye to Pouliot, Nilsson, and Kotalik. Keep Reddox in the minors where he belongs. (Add two subtract four)

Pray that the new coach can deliver a top 15 PP/PK and that Roli or his replacement can post a .915 SV% and this group could make the playoffs.

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#183 Ogden Brother
May 01 2009, 04:39PM
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Chris wrote:

@ kingsblade: @ Ogden Brother: If J-Bo wants to play here, (BIG IF) AND the Oilers can afford to sign him… Great! Then You can move ONE of the other top four for a top six forward. I don’t think Tambellini has the cap room though. Next scenario. Move ONE of the top four D-men for a top six forward. Acquire another legit D-man to replace the guy you moved. (Damn cap dilemma again!) Either way, I think it would be a mistake to move TWO of the current top four this offseason. Smid is not ready to be a top four guy starting out. (Though I’m sure he would appreciate the opportunity to step up in the event of an injury) It is counter-productive to move two guys out, then two different guys back in unless you can a)Really upgrade. Or b)save several million dollars by doing so. I’m not sure Tambellini can realistically achieve either.

*Slaps head* Your scenario 2 "Move One top 4 dman for a top 6 forward, aquire another legit top 4 dman* is identical to

"Sign J-bo, Move two top 4 Dmen for a top 6 forward and another legit top 4 Dman (defensive)"

Your agree with the theory but arguing with the mechanics??

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#184 Chris
May 01 2009, 04:49PM
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Ogden Brother wrote:

Your agree with the theory but arguing with the mechanics??

I'm NOT arguing mechanics. I'm arguing a very important point: I don't think it is wise to turn over two of your top four defencemen in one offseason. Both my scenarios involved turning over only one of the top four.

Chris wrote:

It is counter-productive to move two guys out, then two different guys back in unless you can a)Really upgrade. Or b)save several million dollars by doing so
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#185 Chris
May 01 2009, 05:15PM
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Regarding my earlier post.(Comment #182) The Oilers are committed to $43 millionish in salary next season. By releasing/shedding Nilsson, Staios, and Pouliot: Tambellini should have enough cash to sign Grebs, Smid, and maybe Brodziak. Assuming the cap comes in at 50 million (conservative guess)... Tambellini needs to sign a goalie, a third line center, AND make an upgrade on the top six for just 7 million...(I'm guessing Gaborik is out of the question) I'm thinking Penner HAS to be the man on that top line or he has to go. I don't like the Oiler team depth. I especially don't like the lack of wiggle room under the cap... That said, I don't think downgrading on the back-end is the way to go. Skate this team and hope you can get more out of Gagner and Coglino. I know this is boring...

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#186 Gene's Pubes
May 01 2009, 05:31PM
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@ Robin Brownlee:

I think the most telling sign of your post there Robin, is now only 1 of those players played a full season.

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#187 Gene's Pubes
May 01 2009, 05:36PM
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Robin Brownlee wrote:

Jagr deserves a chance? He’s not looking to donate his services. His entitlement to $5-7 million is based on what?

The fact that he would make this team 5-7 million dollars in merchandise let alone all the other crap that comes with it. The Oilers would make his salary back in a heartbeat.

If we have nothing else to go on, no prospects, no chances of a top UFA, then whats the harm? You can throw around waste of money this and that, when Yagr's own presence will make that back. He cant produce here? Even if he comes and scores 60 points, thats better than all but 1 of our forwards.

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#188 Robin Brownlee
May 01 2009, 05:43PM
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Gene's Pubes wrote:

The fact that he would make this team 5-7 million dollars in merchandise let alone all the other crap that comes with it. The Oilers would make his salary back in a heartbeat.

That's a new concept. I wonder if Sather or Lowe or Tambellini have been factoring in potential sales of souvenirs when they make hockey decisions?

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#189 Harlie
May 01 2009, 06:31PM
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@ Robin Brownlee:

i just told my wife the moose cock post that you did and she said I should ask you how you know what moose cock tastes like. So...

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#190 Gene's Pubes
May 01 2009, 07:49PM
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@ Robin Brownlee:

That may not be their first thought, but your nuts if you dont think someone with some power will say, "That Jagr guy is going to make us a lot of money"

But my point was, the Oilers will make his money back therefore its not like the Oilers will be throwing away money with nothing to show for it.

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#191 Garett
May 01 2009, 08:08PM
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Factoring in sales of merchandise? Are u guys f'n serious? Or am I the dumb one? Merchandise sales don't go back against the cap you idiots, we have an owner who can burn $100 bills for heat, we need cap help, not measily merchandise sales, pull your heads outta yer asses, we want a contender, not a western version of the Maple Leafs where they sell out even if u suck!

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#192 Gene's Pubes
May 01 2009, 08:59PM
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That hilarious, but shows you dont read close enough.

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#193 Robin Brownlee
May 01 2009, 09:27PM
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Garett wrote:

Factoring in sales of merchandise? Are u guys f’n serious? Or am I the dumb one? Merchandise sales don’t go back against the cap you idiots, we have an owner who can burn $100 bills for heat, we need cap help, not measily merchandise sales, pull your heads outta yer asses, we want a contender, not a western version of the Maple Leafs where they sell out even if u suck!

Nice comprehension. In the future, please engage that little walnut you call a brain before applying your fingers to the keyboard and making a jackass of yourself. And thanks for the tip about souvenir revenue not counting against the salary cap. I wasn't aware of that.

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#194 West Coast Oil, $Version=1
May 01 2009, 10:44PM
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@ Robin Sundin made the Canucks better because other teams have to respect him and his accomplishments. Meaning they need to put a top end defensive line against him which opened up more space for the Sundin line. If we can get a consistant secondary scoring line, having Jager means he would automatically draw the top defence pairing giving the second line more space. With Sundin he has been a shell of himself but he still draws the top end defenders because no coach wants him to find his scoring touch against their team

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#195 roughneck
May 01 2009, 11:05PM
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Its right there Robin... they pay him a percentage of what Gordie Howe made at 38 adjusted for inflation, if he meets or exceeds 75 points in 70 games then he can negotiate up to Gordies full salary. ~I cant see JJ having any problem with that~

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#196 Archaeologuy
May 02 2009, 03:01AM
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Chris wrote:

@ Archaeologuy: We’re getting along so well today.

*pats self on the back for playing well with others this time*

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#197 Robin Brownlee
May 02 2009, 08:07AM
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@ West Coast Oil, $Version=1: You're absolutely right about secondary scoring. I'd suggest, though, it's smarter to try to acquire it with a player that fits into the plans long term as opposed to hoping somebody like Jagr can still deliver. People shouldn't get me wrong -- Jagr was a magnificent player at his best and there's every possibility what he's got left would still make him one of the Oilers top two or three forwards, but he's a stop-gap solution. I'd rather see Tambellini skip the quick fix and spend his time and resources on somebody who has a chance to be here in two or three years when the younger players the Oilers have already invested in are hitting their stride.

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#198 Archaeologuy
May 02 2009, 12:10PM
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Robin Brownlee wrote:

You’re absolutely right about secondary scoring. I’d suggest, though, it’s smarter to try to acquire it with a player that fits into the plans long term as opposed to hoping somebody like Jagr can still deliver.

I think everyone agrees with this statement Robin. But would you still disagree with signing Jagr if it's August, the Oilers have 5ish Mill in space, and all other routes for acquiring longer term solutions have been exhausted?

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#199 myteammytown
May 02 2009, 02:32PM
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Ogden Brother wrote:

Robin Brownlee wrote: Guys: Out of curiosity, I looked at the statistics the eight players ahead of Jagr in career scoring put up in the seasons in which they played at age 38. There’s quite a range. PLAYER GP G A PTS Gretzky 70 9 53 62 Messier 59 13 35 48 Howe 70 29 46 75 Francis 82 15 50 65 Dionne 37 7 16 23 Yzerman 16 2 6 8 Lemieux 10 1 8 9 Sakic 44 13 27 40 They all look pretty good to me. If he gets hurt we get the LTIR. Jagr at 6 Or Kotalik at 3.25 and two million in open cap space?

if he gets hurt we MIGHT get the LTIR.

injured players continue to count against the cap, even on LTIR. there is relief available if replacing the $$$$ puts the team over the cap.

banking on LTIR has disaster written all over it.

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#200 Robin Brownlee
May 02 2009, 02:52PM
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@ Archaeologuy: IF the Oilers exhausted every possible option and came up with nothing, IF they first addressed the other holes in the line-up and IF they could get Jagr for NEXT season at no more than $5 million, I'd put my philosophical distaste for trying to squeeze the last drop from over-the-hill superstars aside, hold my nose and tolerate the move. It's a last resort. It shouldn't be a first move.

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