Disagreeing with Greg Wyshynski

Jonathan Willis
May 13 2009 08:46AM

But this Ducks/Wings fight shows us the difference between sending a message and "message sending." This was a nasty but emotionally organic bit of olde tyme hockey; none of the players on the ice were knuckle-dragging goons looking for a target at the end of the blowout…. The NHL's disciplinary system would become a parody of the joke it is if any of these players are suspended for Game 7.

Greg Wyshynski is the editor of Yahoo’s excellent Puck Daddy blog, and an irreverent and outspoken columnist who has far more good points than bad ones. On this point though, I think he’s letting Perry and Getzlaf’s point totals blind him just a little bit.

It looked to me like Perry and Getzlaf were looking for targets. Here’s a quick glance at three numbers from their two bouts: size, penalty minutes, career fights:

Getzlaf vs. Hossa

Size: 6’4, 221lbs vs. 6’1”, 208lbs. Advantage: Getzlaf PIM: 121 vs. 63. Advantage: Getzlaf Fights: 10 in 297GP vs. 4 in 775GP. Advantage: Getzlaf

When you toss in the fact that only one forward in the entire league took more penalties than Ryan Getzlaf, and that Getzlaf instigated the event and threw the first punch, I think the possibility that he was looking for a target to soften up before game seven becomes incredibly likely. Still, let’s move on to event #2.

Perry vs. Rafalski

Size: 6’3”, 209lbs vs. 5’10”, 200lbs. Advantage:Perry PIM: 109 vs. 20. Advantage: Perry Fights: 14 in 286GP vs. 2 in 692GP. Advantage: Perry

Corey Perry’s another guy on the frequently-penalized list, tied for fourth among NHL forwards (one back of Ethan Moreau). Meanwhile Brian Rafalski managed to take virtually no penalties all season; an incredible feat for a defenseman. Again, we have a case where Perry clearly instigated the altercation and used it as an excuse to whale on a clearly overmatched opponent.

I didn’t bother mentioning the third fight, although again in all categories Niedermayer is well ahead of Datsyuk (a Lady Byng candidate), since Niedermayer isn’t exactly a fighter himself. But Niedermayer’s elbow to Datsyuk’s face wasn’t exactly a clean move itself either, and works back to the overall point: that the Ducks blatantly provoked this incident.

Suspensions?

Of course, the NHL has a suspension policy for players involved in an altercation in the last minutes of a game – a policy that I’ve never been especially fond of – but if the policy is there it should be enforced, particularly when one team has two big, tough players attacking a pair of smaller, less-willing combatants. The fact that those two players happen to be scoring stars is incidental – they clearly defied NHL policy, and neither of the “fights” was an equal contest: it was a pair of big guys beating up on a pair of smaller guys.

They won’t be suspended, obviously; the NHL has repeatedly shown that it has a two-tiered justice system, one for stars and one for role players. Since Getzlaf and Perry are stars, and it would look too much like the NHL was rigging the series, they will not suspend the offenders.

If the league were just, though, neither Perry or Getzlaf would suit up for Game 7. And it wouldn’t be the travesty that Wyshynski claims – it would be two players who willfully went after smaller, less physical opponents with no time left on the clock getting exactly what they deserved.

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Jonathan Willis is a freelance writer. He currently works for Oilers Nation, the Edmonton Journal and Bleacher Report. He's co-written three books and worked for myriad websites, including Grantland, ESPN, The Score, and Hockey Prospectus. He was previously the founder and managing editor of Copper & Blue.
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#1 Archaeologuy
May 13 2009, 09:17AM
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I would love to see the Ducks get a handfull of suspensions for this, but I dont think they can do it. They have been consistently inconsistent and to enforce the rules NOW would just not make any sense.

I would love to see a whole new regime in the NHL from Bettman and Daly to Colin Campbell. Redefine the expectations and be crystal clear as to what constitutes a suspension and make it apply to everyone. I prefer tough hockey with lots of fighting and violent hits. It just doesnt make sense that in this era of hockey the so-called tough guys arent allowed to be tough but the Stars are given carte-blanche.

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#2 The Towel Boy
May 13 2009, 09:24AM
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I was watching that dust up and all I could think was how much salary was being tossed around in the form of elbows, straight arms and flying knuckles. Lots of skill in that there scrum.

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#3 edicius
May 13 2009, 09:25AM
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Curious if you think that Niedermayer should see a suspension for his elbow to Datsyuk as well.

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#4 cm
May 13 2009, 09:31AM
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you know what pissed me off is TSN reporting that Ryan Malone only has 17 million left on his contract when he clearly has over 25 million left on his original 7 year deal.

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#5 Monday Guy
May 13 2009, 09:32AM
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I base my opinion on a much simpler system I call it the, "I have no Ducks in my Playoff Pool" System.

I say suspend them all !

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#6 Archaeologuy
May 13 2009, 09:35AM
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@ cm: Maybe it was front loaded, which doesnt change the Cap hit but Tampa is probably more worried about real money than Cap implications.

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#7 Rick
May 13 2009, 09:47AM
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My thinking exactly Jonathon, nice work.

It's beyond me how Getzlaf starts the whole thing then escapes with a measely 2 minute roughing penalty (to go with a rediculous 2 minute hooking penalty).

The Ducks knew exactly what they were doing and although I take little exception to it as a hockey fan, based on the image the new NHL is trying to project it will look silly when they don't discipline the Ducks for their actions.

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#8 RossCreek
May 13 2009, 10:07AM
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Clearly still a lot of Duck haters amongst Oiler fans. What about Hossa grabbing Niedermeyer from behind while he was engaged with Datsyuk? 3rd man in? 10th man in? I saw it a bit different than you Willis. I thought Detroit was trying to show that they wouldn't back down or be pushed around and that they couldn't be scared by the big bad Ducks. ~I'm sure everyone would be saying the same thing about Getzlaf & Perry if they were wearing the Oil drop and the exact same thing happened. Right?~

Anyone here who wouldn't trade Hemsky straight up for Perry or Getzlaf is sadly mistaken.

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#9 dizzle
May 13 2009, 10:15AM
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Sorry JW but I think your off the mark on why they will not be suspended.

First off the rule was made to limit the boogeymen of the league from throwing down in the last 5 minutes. Ala Senators Sabres two years ago. I know Getzlaf and Perry are gritty but not even close to heavies.

Second, it is not because of star treatment that they will not be suspended but because Colin Campbell has painted himself in the corner.

Without a doubt, Scott Walker should have been suspended and he is no way a star that recieved preferential treatment. It was in the last minutes of the game, he got a 2, a five, and a game misconduct. Also, he is much easier to paint the goon brush with then your attempt at Getzlaf and Perry. However, Colin Campbell knows this is an entertainment business and the fans love those heated dustups at the end of the game between two players, not goons, but players.

Getzlaf and Perry will not be suspended, not because they are stars, but because precedant has been set and Colin Campbell would look like a fool suspending those two and not Walker.

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#10 Chaz
May 13 2009, 10:17AM
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IMO I'd say there are no suspensions warranted here. I wouldn't even call what happened 'Fights', as opposed to some rough stuff after the whistle. After the league recinded Walker's automatic one game suspension for his hit on Ward, there is no way these guys will face a suspension. And I think that's the right call. Game 7 will be better with all the stars in it.

I agree there is a two-tiered system, but in this case it benefits the fans as it'll be a better game with the two Anaheim thugs in it. My hope is that Detroit will exact their revenge on the score board as they so often do.

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#11 Jack Bauer
May 13 2009, 10:19AM
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What about Pavel Datsyuk getting tuned? Hes not prize fighter himself.

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#12 RossCreek
May 13 2009, 10:28AM
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@ Jack Bauer ~ya your right, Niedermeyer is a much more established pugilist~

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#13 Rick
May 13 2009, 10:31AM
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RossCreek wrote:

Anyone here who wouldn’t trade Hemsky straight up for Perry or Getzlaf is sadly mistaken.

I can't figure out what this has to do with what happened.

Is there any doubt that the fight broke out because Getzlaf was trying to send a message?

What happened after it all broke loose is a secondary issue.

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#14 Archaeologuy
May 13 2009, 10:31AM
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RossCreek wrote:

Anyone here who wouldn’t trade Hemsky straight up for Perry or Getzlaf is sadly mistaken.

It will never happen, so luckily I will never have to worry about the amazing level of dissapointment that will be felt by the Fans of Oilerville when the next highly touted player comes up short because he's THE ONLY ELITE FORWARD ON THE TEAM. You think Perry would come here and score 30 goals with Horc as his centre, or that Getzlaf would rack up 66 assists feeding the likes of Penner and Kotalik? Please, give up.

Will Perry come here and magically put up more points than his career high 72 that he potted while playing with Getzlaf, Bobby Ryan, Niedermayer, and Pronger? No, i doubt it. That team has the benefit of having MULTIPLE quality top line players. No matter who comes here, if the trade includes Hemsky, the returning player will be all by his lonesome.

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#15 Jason Gregor
May 13 2009, 10:35AM
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Does anyone actually think this send a real message?

What message do you think it sends? Do you think Hossa or Datsyuk or Rafalski, will back down one bit in game seven?

No chance. I like that they stood in there. Datsyuk did fine v. Greybeard.

So what if Getzlaf takes more penalties in the regular season, he didn't like what Hossa did so he gave him a shot. That is part of hockey. No one got hurt, and there is no way that Detroit will be intimidated come game seven. If anything this will just heighten the intensity for game seven.

Three game sevens in round two...AWESOME.

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#16 Jason Gregor
May 13 2009, 10:35AM
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SENDS a real message...

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#17 Jason Gregor
May 13 2009, 10:37AM
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@ Archaeologuy:

If you don't think Getzlaf is better than Hemsky you are clearly wearing the COPPER and BLUE googles today. Perry is a different player, and straight up I wouldn't say he is better than Hemsky, but Getzlaf is a workhorse who can do it all.

I'd take him in a heartbeat for Hemsky.

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#18 Archaeologuy
May 13 2009, 10:46AM
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@ Jason Gregor: I didnt say I wouldnt take Getzlaf. He seems like the real deal. 2 years of more than a point per game pace and he's a huge Centre. My biggest problem with Ross Creek's statement is that it includes Perry, who i dont think is better than Hemsky.

The main point of my reply to him though, was that it doesnt matter who is coming because elite players dont produce a massive amount of points on their own. You've pointed this out on your radio show before, there are very few elite point producers who DO NOT have other top 30 producers that play with them.

So lets say Getzlaf for Hemsky happens (it wont but lets pretend). Now the Oilers have filled the void at Centre and opened a relatively equal sized hole at RW. It doesnt turn this non-playoff team into a contender.

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#19 RossCreek
May 13 2009, 10:50AM
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Getzlaf is as close to the top tier (Crosby, Ovechkin, Malkin, Zetterberg, etc.) as anyone else. He is a superstar, and although Perry probably benefits from playing with him, I'd still take his game over Hemsky's (I don't dislike Hemsky, I just don't think he's as good as most people here seem to think). If Hemsky's your best forward, you're in trouble. If he's your 2nd best, you're likely in good shape.

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#20 RossCreek
May 13 2009, 10:54AM
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@ Arch If you got Getzlaf and moved Gagner to Hemsky's spot, they'd be a better team. Simple as that. They're not get him anyway. I just wanted to fire you up ;-)

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#21 jeanshorts
May 13 2009, 10:55AM
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@ Chaz:

I'm with Chaz. Sure there was some punches thrown but in my mind it was more of a scrum that got a little carried away rather then a series of fights. Hell I've seen guys get face washed in a scrum during the regular season way harder then most of the punches thrown last night.

I hate how the media, minus Wyshynski apperentley, immedietly jump all over the "holy crap there was something that happened at the end of the game everyone should be suspended otherwise someone is going to get killed" bandwagon, rather then using this as a way of getting everyone really amped for game 7. Has everyone already forgotten the Leafs/Kings series from 93 or whatever? Clark punched McSorely's eye out at the end of game one and that set the tone for one of the most exciting playoff series I can remember. This is the playoffs people. Everyone out there is going to do everything they can to help their team get even the slightest edge. If this same scenario happened with James Wisniewski, Kent Huskins, Dan Cleary, Justin Abdelkader, etc, do you think people would be talking about this? I really doubt it. Let the players sort it out on the ice and lets all just enjoy some exciting hockey shall we?

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#22 Archaeologuy
May 13 2009, 10:59AM
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@ RossCreek: And if youre 2nd best player is Horcoff because you got rid of Hemsky youre screwed

Perry has managed to provide Hemsky like production (for 1 season) playing with Getzlaf, who as you note is as close to top tier as anyone can be. Perry's game is tough and gritty, but he isnt even close to Hemsky in terms of talent. Now, I would change my tune if Perry managed to accomplish anything without Getzlaf as his C or without one of the best Defenses in the league behind him, but that likely isnt going to be the case for a while.

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#23 Archaeologuy
May 13 2009, 11:03AM
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@ RossCreek: Gagner isnt as good as Hemsky yet. I thought we all learned our lesson about assuming that potential would turn into reality.

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#24 RossCreek
May 13 2009, 11:07AM
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@ Arch So you're saying Horcoff is currently their 2nd best forward, yet if you could make that deal, you'd be screwed because Horcoff would be your 2nd best forward? So you've upgraded your #1 player and your #2 remains the same, but you would be "screwed"?

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#25 Jonathan Willis
May 13 2009, 11:08AM
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Chaz wrote:

I wouldn’t even call what happened ‘Fights’, as opposed to some rough stuff after the whistle.

I wouldn't call Perry beating on Rafalski a fight either; it was an excuse to jump a guy much, much smaller and unlikely to fight if given a choice.

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#26 RossCreek
May 13 2009, 11:11AM
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@ Arch I didn't say Gagner was as good as Hemsky (yet), but he'd be playing with a much better player than who Hemsky currently plays with.

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#27 Jonathan Willis
May 13 2009, 11:12AM
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@ RossCreek:

Getzlaf > Hemsky > Perry.

And just for the record, Perry's an embarrassing player to cheer for. He's a dirty player and I wouldn't like him even if he were wearing an Oilers' jersey.

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#28 Westcoastoil
May 13 2009, 11:15AM
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Anyone who wouldn't take Getzlaf for Hemsky doesn't have a clue. Centre's with his size, skill, speed and edge come into the league about once every 3 or 4 years.

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#29 Archaeologuy
May 13 2009, 11:15AM
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@ RossCreek: Yes, i am saying that. We were screwed this year because we all assumed the kids would take the next step, but they didnt. Instead our 2nd best forward was Horc. How far did Horc at #2 take us this season? So let's say someone can come in and score 20 more points than Hemsky, how will those 20 points translate into a playoff berth or success? The team would still be fighting tooth and nail for a playoff spot. The same amount of holes exist on the team. Sure, an upgrade of your best player, but Atlanta has had Kovalchuk for HOW LONG and that hasnt taken them over the edge.

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#30 Jonathan Willis
May 13 2009, 11:17AM
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RossCreek wrote:

I thought Detroit was trying to show that they wouldn’t back down or be pushed around and that they couldn’t be scared by the big bad Ducks.

Was that Brian Rafalski was doing? Or maybe Datsyuk was trying to prove how tough he was by taking a Niedermayer elbow to the head? No, the Ducks players forced the issue and short of lying there and taking it, the Wings did the best they could (although in Rafalski's case it didn't make much of a difference).

~I’m sure everyone would be saying the same thing about Getzlaf & Perry if they were wearing the Oil drop and the exact same thing happened. Right?~

I would be. Granted, I'd be hoping they didn't get suspended, and I'd probably point to the Walker incident as an excuse if they did, but I have no compunctions about calling out dirty plays. I said earlier in the year (during the Souray/Weller fight) that if there was proof Souray used his wrist guard, he should be suspended. I also cringe when I see names like Marchment or more recently Boulerice in the lineup for the Oilers.

Some of us are fair-minded enough to dislike dirty play even when it's coming from our own teams.

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#31 Chris
May 13 2009, 11:28AM
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@ Archaeologuy:

You seem to think the only acceptable return for Hemsky is a guy who can single-handedly launch the Oilers into cup contention. Whenever a Hemsky trade proposal is pitched you shoot it down saying the asset coming back can't "do it alone"... well neither can Hemsky; obviously.

You are probably correct: Getzlaf wouldn't produce as much away from Perry... so what? Getzlaf is still a better player than Hemsky, and his presence would probably improve Penners totals, AND his cap hit is less than Horcoff's.

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#32 SelanneFan8
May 13 2009, 11:35AM
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Here's what I saw as an Anaheim Fan from that vid:

Getzlaf hooks Hossa (the original situation) and Hossa takes offense and comes at Getzlaf and they get into.

Then all the craziness occurs. I'm sure that Getzlaf did it to provoke something and it worked. Not saying it was right. But it's not like he jumped on his back without his knowing.

The Perry thing I didn't see what started it but once Raf was down he should have stopped. Can't defend that one.

This didn't seem to be about "sending a message" as Wysh said. This was about a situation that just got over the top due to emotions.

Nobody is mentioning that the smallest guy, Marchant, was the one going from place to place and jumping in as well. That showed to me that it was emotions.

Nieds and Dat was just an odd pairing that tells me that something else was going on. Not sure though.

Both groups had people going from place to place and trying to grab somebody off someone else. If this was a "message" or "fight" then they would have let people square off and go, but that didn't happen. People just kept jumping in - Hossa, Lidstrom, Marchant, Getzlaf. They were all pulling and pushing.

The problem for the NHL is that because everyone came in then who do you suspend? Just Anaheim? But Hossa jumped in among others. Just Detroit? But Perry went away on Raf among others. Both - then you have a disputed game 7 that will leave a bad taste in everyone's mouth.

Best bet is to have it play out and leave it on the ice.

My .02

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#33 RossCreek
May 13 2009, 11:38AM
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@ JW Didn't Datsyuk high stick Niedermeyer before the elbow? Just trying to recall from last night. I'm giving my opinions on the incidents based on watching the game live. Haven't analyzed the replays all that much but it seems we see it differently. I could be mistaken. I'll give you the Perry v Rafalski argument though because I know the type of player he is. Doesn't change how effective he is.

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#34 Archaeologuy
May 13 2009, 11:45AM
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@ Chris: I never said I wouldnt take the trade. I've admited that Getzlaf seems to be a legit top tier player. I'm just pointing out that it wouldnt make the TEAM significantly better to gain one elite player and lose another. His Cap hit being less than Horc's means nothing except to say that the oilers would have 2 Centres making more than 5 mill a season, because the trade proposed does not include Horc.

Chris wrote:

You seem to think the only acceptable return for Hemsky is a guy who can single-handedly launch the Oilers into cup contention

I've already clearly stated that I dont believe there are any players who can single-handedly launch the Oilers into Cup contention. Getting rid of the best player on the team to acquire an even better player doesnt make any sense for a team that literally has no other elite forwards.

What i dont understand is the desire of some Fans for the Oilers to be the next Columbus or Atlanta. Why would anyone want to watch a team that has 1 good player?

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#35 Hemmertime
May 13 2009, 11:52AM
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RossCreek wrote:

Anyone here who wouldn’t trade Hemsky straight up for Perry or Getzlaf is sadly mistaken.

Getz yes, Perry no.

This altercation was clearly started by Getzlaf, he pushed Hossa with goal horn going off - repeatedly - and when Hossa pushed back he dropped his gloves and whaled on him unprovoked with no time left on the clock. What happened afterwards is bad yes, but you cannot/will not suspend both teams top lines. Getz continued the fighting as it was calming down going after Hossa again. Perry was over kill - but by then you could consider it already a line fight. Hossa jumping in on Neidermeyer later when he was fighting a Wing was only after another Duck had joined it, so third man in argument on him is nullified. Datsyuk was throwing down though, but even there Neidermeyer threw the first gloved punch a second before Datsyuk. The video shows it was surely not instigated by the Wings.

I would say you would have to suspend the catalyst, and let what happened afterwards slide. The final buzzer was clearly sounded/sounding when Getzlaf swung, so not only was it in final minutes, it was AFTER the game. Stars have been thrown out of games in playoffs before, but thats not the league but the ref. Oiler goggles be damned, I agreed with Weight getting kicked out of the game way back when. This is in the rules as a suspension, and thus should be upheld that way. I agreed with them not suspending the (Hawk?) guy last week for the rule, but this is clearly different circumstances. Not Suspending Getzlaf would be a mockery of the rules and the league.

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#36 Hemmertime
May 13 2009, 12:00PM
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Side note: Was entertaining and should make for a great game 7, the league will probably just send Getz a thank you letter for the extra ratings. And I really enjoyed watching Neids and Datsyuk getting punched in the face - schadenfreude ftw.

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#37 TonyT
May 13 2009, 12:07PM
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@ Jonathan Willis: Agreed

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#38 Jason Gregor
May 13 2009, 12:09PM
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Archaeologuy wrote:

The main point of my reply to him though, was that it doesnt matter who is coming because elite players dont produce a massive amount of points on their own.

Iginla has...Kovalchuk has.

Sakic in his early years...Yzerman...

The greats can do it...I'm not saying Getzlaf is that great just yet, but for my money he is one of the top ten forwards in the game.

The true top end offensive players produce regardless of their linemates. Another top-end skill guy can help them produce more that's for sure, but if Hemsky wants to be in the category he will need to put up points regardless of who he plays with.

I do agree with you that Corey Perry is benefitting more from playing with Getzlaf, than Getzlaf is playing with Perry. I like Perry as a player, but I wouldn't put him ahead of Hemsky one-on-one either.

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#39 RossCreek
May 13 2009, 12:21PM
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Alright, I'll back off the Perry argument a bit. But if Dustin Brown's name was thrown around, then I'd imagine Perry's could too (hypothetically speaking). To me, Corey Perry has a shot at the Olympic team. IMO, he'd be a nice fit on the 4th line with Mike Richards and Brendan Morrow, although Shane Doan may be more likely to get the nod.

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#40 Archaeologuy
May 13 2009, 12:24PM
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Jason Gregor wrote:

Iginla has…

Cammalleri 39-43-82

Jason Gregor wrote:

Kovalchuk has

Slava Kozlov 26-50-76

Jason Gregor wrote:

Sakic in his early years

Peter Stastny, Mats Sundin, Owen Nolan

Jason Gregor wrote:

Yzerman…

played with some good guys like John Ogrodnick (105 pts in 84-85) and Gerard Gallant.

The greats do it. But they rarely do it alone. That's what makes guys like Rick Nash so impressive.

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#41 Colin
May 13 2009, 12:36PM
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I'm just disappointed with all the game 6's results(excepting the cansucks going out-that was fine).

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#42 Hemmertime
May 13 2009, 12:42PM
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@ RossCreek: Dustin Browns name was thrown around and Edmonton fans sounded like they'd mutiny. So ya, Perry could be in the mutiny category

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#43 Chris
May 13 2009, 12:54PM
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Archaeologuy wrote:

Getting rid of the best player on the team to acquire an even better player doesnt make any sense

Sure it does. An upgrade is an upgrade.

Archaeologuy wrote:

Why would anyone want to watch a team that has 1 good player?

I don't understand... are you saying the Oilers have only one good player now? I know the ideal situation is to bring in yet ANOTHER player to play with Hemsky. (After all; Penner, O'Sullivan, Kotalik, Sykora, Nedved, and several others have all been unable to consistantly produce while playing with Hemsky) Or, maybe after so many years the onus is on Hemsky to have an impact EVERY night with the linemates he's given.

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#44 Ogden Brother
May 13 2009, 12:56PM
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RossCreek wrote:

@ Arch If you got Getzlaf and moved Gagner to Hemsky’s spot, they’d be a better team. Simple as that. They’re not get him anyway. I just wanted to fire you up

Not even close, gagner is at least 2 years away from bringing what Hemsky does.

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#45 roboink
May 13 2009, 01:10PM
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I just hope this gets a fire under Datsyuks butt....I think the Wings will come out both barrells blazing in front of the home crowd. GO WINGS

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#46 RossCreek
May 13 2009, 01:12PM
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@ OB what are you talking about! You think Horcoff and Hemsky with Gagner on the 2nd is better than Getzlaf and Gagner with Horcoff on the 2nd? You're saying Getzlaf for Hemsky is bad? Its not as though you're bringing Gagner in to replace Hemsky. You're bringing in Getzlaf!

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#47 Ogden Brother
May 13 2009, 01:16PM
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@ The linemates make a huge difference crue.

AO put 106 as a rookie when the 2nd/3rd top scorers on his team were Zubrus/Halpren with 57/44 each.

He then dropped to 92 when Semin showed and put up 73.

And this past year was back to 110 when he had Backstrom/Semin/Green all well over a PPG.

Thorton had 96 last year when the 2nd/3rd top scorers had 55/48, this year he put up 86 when 2/3 were at 71/65

Doan, who's good, but I don't think anyone would call elite put up 73 this year when his 2/3 put up 41/36.

A couple of years ago Savard put up 96 in Boston when their top 2 wingers put up 44 and 45

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#48 Ogden Brother
May 13 2009, 01:18PM
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RossCreek wrote:

@ OB what are you talking about! You think Horcoff and Hemsky with Gagner on the 2nd is better than Getzlaf and Gagner with Horcoff on the 2nd? You’re saying Getzlaf for Hemsky is bad? Its not as though you’re bringing Gagner in to replace Hemsky. You’re bringing in Getzlaf!

I'm saying Gagner is huge downgrade from Hemsky (for the time being) and likely couldn't handle the riggers of playing against top competition.

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#49 RossCreek
May 13 2009, 01:20PM
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@ Chris I wasn't even gonna respond to Arch. Thats ridiculous. To say "Getting rid of the best player on the team to acquire an even better player doesnt make any sense" blows my mind. @ Arch ~ Iginla did have Cammalleri all those years~

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#50 RossCreek
May 13 2009, 01:21PM
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@ OB You're completely leaving Getzlaf out of the picture!

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