Trade Hemsky?

Jonathan Willis
May 03 2009 11:31AM

Hemsky and Sakic

Jim Matheson floated the idea in his piece this morning, with the Los Angeles Kings being the destination and a package consisting of Dustin Brown and Matt Greene being the return.

Lowetide’s opinion is here; he examines things from an organizational angle and stresses what the benefits would be before saying he doesn’t like the idea. I completely agree with him, but I thought it might be worthwhile to examine the relative offensive production of Brown and Hemsky year by year in the NHL.

Ales Hemsky at 19: 59GP – 6G – 24A – 30PTS (.51 PPG) Dustin Brown at 19: 31GP – 1G – 4A – 5PTS (.16 PPG)

Ales Hemsky at 20: 71GP – 12G – 22A – 34PTS (.48 PPG) Dustin Brown at 21: 79GP – 14G – 14A – 28PTS (.35 PPG)

Ales Hemsky at 22: 81GP – 19G – 58A – 77PTS (.95 PPG) Dustin Brown at 22: 81GP – 17G – 29A – 46PTS (.57 PPG)

Ales Hemsky at 23: 64GP – 13G – 40A – 53PTS (.83 PPG) Dustin Brown at 23: 78GP – 33G – 27A – 60PTS (.77 PPG)

Ales Hemsky at 24: 74GP – 20G – 51A – 71PTS (.96 PPG) Dustin Brown at 24: 80GP – 24G – 29A – 53PTS (.66 PPG)

Ales Hemsky at 25: 72G – 23G – 43A – 66PTS (.92 PPG)

Career Totals By Age 24

Ales Hemsky: 349GP – 70G – 195A – 265PTS (.76 PPG) Dustin Brown: 349GP – 89G – 103A – 192PTS (.55 PPG)

If the Oilers were to make that trade they’d be sending away someone who was a better point producer at age 25 than Pavel Datsyuk, Jarome Iginla, Henrik Sedin and Jason Spezza. They’d be sending away the best offensive talent on the team for a guy who once hit 60 points. It would mean that the best offensive season recorded by anyone on the team, ever, was Shawn Horcoff’s 73 point effort in 2005-06.

It would be a mistake.

74b7cedc5d8bfbe88cf071309e98d2c3
Jonathan Willis is Managing Editor of the Nation Network. He also currently writes for the Edmonton Journal's Cult of Hockey, Grantland, and Hockey Prospectus. His work has appeared at theScore, ESPN and Puck Daddy. He was previously founder and managing editor of Copper & Blue. Contact him at jonathan (dot) willis (at) live (dot) ca.
Avatar
#101 RossCreek
May 04 2009, 09:38AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

Archaeologuy wrote:

@ Archaeologuy: sorry i didnt count Strudwick ~how could I forget him?~

LOL, I just poasted that "technically speaking". You missed Stevie too.

Avatar
#102 Harlie
May 04 2009, 09:39AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

bengood wrote:

@ Harlie: Player X turns 37 this week Player Y is 25

I'm not saying trade Hemsky for Whitney. I'm just saying that based on the stats alone Hemsky isn't the full on demi-god which some people believe he is. Whitney went in the second round of the entry draft and look at what he has accomplished. And I would say that at the ripe old age of 37 that Whitney is still outplaying and outproducing the 25 year old Hemsky.

Whitney 08-09 - 82 games played 77 points 0.94 PPG Hemsky 08-09 - 72 games played 66 points 0.92 PPG

Avatar
#103 RossCreek
May 04 2009, 09:39AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

RossCreek wrote:

LOL, I just poasted that “technically speaking”. You missed Stevie too.

And lol, I don't even know how to spell now, Rwhat?

Avatar
#104 Archaeologuy
May 04 2009, 09:41AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

@ RossCreek: right, only one elite player. So barring role players who didnt have a home until August (and even Souray was late as I recall), only 1 elite player. And really that is the most important aspect of the whole issue, because people are just assuming that the Oilers will sign Havlat/Hossa/Gaborik as if it's a given, and not an extreme longshot.

The Fact of the matter is the Oilers have not signed a big ticket UFA not named Souray in...ever?

honestly, can anyone name another big name UFA who came here in his prime?

Avatar
#105 myteammytown
May 04 2009, 09:48AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

jp wrote:

I’d use Hemsky Gilbert Penner and Schremp to pry the 4th overall, Kovalchuk and Pavelic out of Atlanta and use the savings to sign Bouwmeister and Reasoner then move Vish and Osullivan to T-bay for 2nd Overall and Malone(overpaid not as much as people think and tbay would love to unload him, 6ft4 225lb good for 25 to 30 goals tough as they come). Draft Hedman or Tavares and Paarvi they could play next year. Package nilsson, moreau and 10th overall to move up to get Kane, Cowan or Schenn Again use the savings to sign Hossa and Marcel Hossa (27 6ft3 215lb had good year in KHL) Brother act shaves a good 5mil off elder hossas contract I bet and try to keep it to under 6yrs or make it like franzens(remember Valeri Bure, he had some real good seasons in his late twenties takes some time I guess) Kovalchuk Horcoff Hossa 100 goals Malone Gagner Hossa 65 goals Cogliano Reasoner Pisani 45 Goals Jacques Brodziak Stortini 30 Goals Souray Bouwmeister 35 Goals Smid Grebeshkov 15 Goals Hedman Peckham 10 Goals Pavalic JDD extra 15 to 20 from extra forwards (315 goals) this roster could easily score over 300 Goals and is better in every way than last years team (goal is interesting we could resign roli to a two year deal 2.5/1.5 2m cap hit if pav & jdd aren’t solid) these are huge trades but they make every team involved better thats why I think they are plausable. We have too many good not great nhlers atlanta doesn’t. Move some of these guys out for some new skill It is very rare to find pronger/forsberg type players where we pick in the draft so lets be bold and do what we have to to move up to grab these huge talents and make them oilers from day one. the glory days were built on the draft(except 99) and thats what we need to do now.

easily score over 300 goals?

no teams "easily" score over 300 goals anymore. look at the GF since the lockout.

The red wings this season didnt break 300, is this mystical oiler roster that much better than this years wings?

good god...

Avatar
#106 Archaeologuy
May 04 2009, 09:49AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

@ Harlie:

For the last 9 seasons Whitney has been very close to a point per game, he out produced Eric Staal this season. So are you saying that Hemsky is a player who might potentially be better than Eric Staal? It's not like youre comparing Hemsky to a bad player and then saying "well look, he's comparable to that guy so he isnt that good", Whitney is a very good player.

And Hemsky is still doing better than him when you compare where Whitney was at the same time in his career.

Avatar
#107 Harlie
May 04 2009, 09:50AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

Archaeologuy wrote:

@ Harlie: You are aware that Whitney has been playing for 18+ years and that Hemsky tracks well ahead of him, right?

Of course I know how long Whitney has been playing for. By tracking well ahead yeah you could say that Hemsky has more NHL games under his belt at an earlier point in his career but statistically it is still really close when you break it down to PPG.

Hemsky - 211 games played 141 points 0.67 PPG in first 3 years of NHL Whitney - 209 games played 125 points 0.60 PPG in first 7 years of NHL

Avatar
#108 Malc
May 04 2009, 10:07AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

@ Archaeologuy:

Wow, I didn't say trade Hemsky for Brown, nor did I trash the guy. And yes, Brown is arguably the best RW on the Kings. ~I'm sure his +/- has nothing to do with the team's success over the past four seasons. Poor argument, just watch him play. And sure, Hemsky is capable of "taking over a game," but how often does that happen? One game with Columbus comes to mind this season. Sorry, but making a brilliant play every couple of games doesn't cut it for me, especially when you consider how much he shows up for the rest of the time. Especially when you call the coach/managment out and basically say that you want to carry the team and then not show up at all.

I take it you are saying it is because of his supporting cast? So the GM should find a way to revamp the roster to suit the needs of one player? How does that make any sense? Saying I am not opposed to the idea of trading him does not mean I am advocating it from the rooftops. No player should be safe when it comes to making this team better. If Hemsky can be moved and that transaction can better the team, then do it. You don't keep a guy for the sake of keeping a guy.

Why does the return necessarily have to be of lesser value? He is an enticing piece and we have extra bodies to move. A 2 for 1, or 3 for 1 deal which includes Hemsky ought to be able to bring back someone of excellent value.

And yes, first line players are judged on points. But that doesn't mean that a team with balanced scoring and grit can't compete with one that has a superstar or elite players.

Avatar
#109 dragon
May 04 2009, 10:08AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

point production aside, are there any 'intangibles' that Hemmer is bringing to this team that I'm not aware of? He's not making anybody look any better, under his reign the PP sucked big time (not sure if his fault or the coach's) and the leadership was questionable. Not to mentioned that he vanished, point production and all, when the team needed him the most. I do believe this team needs another point production leader, a more consistent one. Or maybe offer Hemmer the second line winger position and that i-do-what-i-want role...

Avatar
#110 topshelf
May 04 2009, 10:12AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

@ dragon: Hemsky was one of the ONLY reasons we scored any goals on the power play. Give your head a shake.

Avatar
#111 Ogden Brother
May 04 2009, 10:19AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

Food for thought:

I know alot of people like to lump the MacT tenure all together with the “8 years of underperforming” chant.

Andy Murray was nominated for the Jack Adams this year because he took a team with young talent and major injuries to it’s vets to a 13 point improvement.

The prior year MacT took a team with young talent and major injuries it’s vets to an 18 point improvement.

Avatar
#112 Archaeologuy
May 04 2009, 10:26AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

Malc wrote:

Brown is arguably the best RW on the Kings. ~I’m sure his +/- has nothing to do with the team’s success over the past four seasons

I'm Sure Frolov would argue with that statement considering he scored more goals and points than Brown.

Malc wrote:

~I’m sure his +/- has nothing to do with the team’s success over the past four seasons.

Too bad his +/- is on the bottom half of his own team. Its not like he's the best on a bad team, there are considerably better +/- players, even on a poor team.

Malc wrote:

Sorry, but making a brilliant play every couple of games doesn’t cut it for me, especially when you consider how much he shows up for the rest of the time. Especially when you call the coach/managment out and basically say that you want to carry the team and then not show up at all.

Right because the 9 points he put up in the last 10 games when the team was tanking was the epitome of a Player "not showing up". And you dont become nearly a point per game player by not showing up throughout the season.

Malc wrote:

I take it you are saying it is because of his supporting cast? So the GM should find a way to revamp the roster to suit the needs of one player? How does that make any sense?

Hemsky hasnt needed anyone else to play with in order to put up points his whole career. He didnt need, or get, anyone to play with this season and he still led the team in scoring, so your argument is already a load of crap. And yes, most teams try to find other good players to play with the ones they already have, its sort of common sense. The alternative is have no good players and surround them with other no good players. Kind of counter-productive to winning hockey games.

Malc wrote:

Why does the return necessarily have to be of lesser value? He is an enticing piece and we have extra bodies to move. A 2 for 1, or 3 for 1 deal which includes Hemsky ought to be able to bring back someone of excellent value.

What better value is a team going to give up realisticly? Pick a player who produces more on a point per game basis and has a comparable contract, then tell me that player's team is willing to move him and why.

Go ahead, I'm waiting.

Avatar
#113 Archaeologuy
May 04 2009, 10:29AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

dragon wrote:

Not to mentioned that he vanished, point production and all, when the team needed him the most.

yeah, those 9 points in the last 10 games of the season was him vanishing big time.

dragon wrote:

are there any ‘intangibles’ that Hemmer is bringing to this team that I’m not aware of? He’s not making anybody look any better

he made Horcoff look like a 7 million dollar player, but yeah, he doesnt make anyone look good.

Avatar
#114 Archaeologuy
May 04 2009, 10:34AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

You guys want to talk about disappearing at the end of the season? Why not look into seeing how many points the amazing Brown put up in HIS last 12 games.

I'll give you a hint, it rhymes with "Hero".

Avatar
#115 dragon
May 04 2009, 10:36AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

@ topshelf: oh yes, you're right...his 4 goals and 27 assists does put him 20th in NHL and Oilers PP 21st in NHL, which should be good enough. Which explains why we're chasing 8th spot in the West every year...

Avatar
#116 dragon
May 04 2009, 10:39AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

@ Archaeologuy: I'm not saying Brown's the answer. I'm just arguing that Hemmer doesn't have what it takes to carry a team offensively...Higher than the 8th spot, that is...

Avatar
#117 Archaeologuy
May 04 2009, 10:41AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

@ dragon: Ok, so Hemsky plays on the league's 21st overall PP but has more PP points than Zetterburg and Parise, so it's HIS fault the PP sucks?

Yeah, that makes a whole lot of sense. Why didnt he score a bagillion goals on the PP this year? What a loser that guy is!

Avatar
#118 Colin
May 04 2009, 10:43AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

dragon wrote:

@ Archaeologuy: I’m not saying Brown’s the answer. I’m just arguing that Hemmer doesn’t have what it takes to carry a team offensively……

This is correct with the caveat that the word ALONE is added.

Avatar
#119 Archaeologuy
May 04 2009, 10:46AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

dragon wrote:

I’m just arguing that Hemmer doesn’t have what it takes to carry a team offensively…Higher than the 8th spot, that is…

By that reasoning, St. Louis and Lecavalier dont have the ability COMBINED to carry a team higher than 29th and Kovalchuk cant carry a team Offensively higher than a lottery position. Sorry Dragon but 1 elite player alone isnt capable of taking a team anywhere. Even Crosby needs his Goaltender and Malkin in order to win games. Without Hemsky the Oilers have 0 elite forwards. Pretty hard to win AT ALL without even 1, just ask the Islanders.

Avatar
#120 Jonathan Willis
May 04 2009, 10:50AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

Harlie wrote:

Hemsky - 211 games played 141 points 0.67 PPG in first 3 years of NHL Whitney - 209 games played 125 points 0.60 PPG in first 7 years of NHL

Ray Whitney was 25 at the end of that span. Ales Hemsky was 22. That makes a difference.

Avatar
#121 dragon
May 04 2009, 10:52AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

@ Archaeologuy: I'm not saying he's a loser. I'm saying he's taken a role that it doesn't suit him. Even though he wants it (and we as fans would love to see it) he doesn't seem to be strong team-leader material (pp included). When you have 72 give-aways in 72 games, you're putting quite some pressure on your buddies in D...Not too good for team building IMO.

Avatar
#122 dragon
May 04 2009, 10:55AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

@ Archaeologuy: I agree. That's why we need an offensive leader. If we can get it without giving up Hemmer, that's fine. But if trading him is the only way, I'd say we should consider it...

Avatar
#123 Jonathan Willis
May 04 2009, 10:56AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

dragon wrote:

I’m just arguing that Hemmer doesn’t have what it takes to carry a team offensively…Higher than the 8th spot, that is…

In 1993-94, Wayne Gretzky scored 130 points in 81 games. His Los Angeles Kings (despite also having Luc Robitaille (86 pts), Jari Kurri (77 pts), Rob Blake (68 pts) and Alexei Zhitnik (52 pts)) went 27-45-12 and missed the playoffs, finishing 10th of 12 teams in the West. They would miss the playoffs for the next three years before finally trading Gretzky to St. Louis.

Do you see what I'm getting at here? 20 players dress every night. To blame the results of a team on on guy (with the occasional exception for goaltenders) makes no sense.

Avatar
#124 Jonathan Willis
May 04 2009, 11:01AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

In his first six seasons in the NHL, Mario Lemieux had the following statistics:

427GP - 345G - 493A - 838PTS

His team made the playoffs once in those six years.

Avatar
#125 Archaeologuy
May 04 2009, 11:07AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

@ dragon: Right, so his role of point producer didnt suit him? You do know he lead the team in scoring right? He was by far the best PP producer on the team, but he isnt good on the PP? And his giveaways? I cant believe a player forced to score essentially on his own might give the puck away sometimes, good thing he has enough defensive responsibility to be a + player on a bad team.

Avatar
#126 Archaeologuy
May 04 2009, 11:10AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

dragon wrote:

@ Archaeologuy: I agree. That’s why we need an offensive leader. If we can get it without giving up Hemmer, that’s fine. But if trading him is the only way, I’d say we should consider it…

I think my brain just exploded.

Why dont you think he's an Offensive leader and who do you think the Oilers will get that's better than him? Do you watch hockey or is this new to you?

Avatar
#127 Ogden Brother
May 04 2009, 11:19AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

Archaeologuy wrote:

dragon wrote: @ Archaeologuy: I agree. That’s why we need an offensive leader. If we can get it without giving up Hemmer, that’s fine. But if trading him is the only way, I’d say we should consider it… I think my brain just exploded. Why dont you think he’s an Offensive leader and who do you think the Oilers will get that’s better than him? Do you watch hockey or is this new to you?

An extended Kovalchuk *might* be an opportunity that I would explore trading Hemsky for.

Avatar
#128 Archaeologuy
May 04 2009, 11:23AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

@ Ogden Brother: Might being the appropriate word. At what cost of trade and will he re-sign with the Oil long term at a reasonable rate? At this point if it isnt a sign and trade he's just a rental player.

Avatar
#129 Archaeologuy
May 04 2009, 11:31AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

@ Ogden Brother: And here's my issue with the whole idea. Let's just say the Oilers convince another team to give them a player who is legitimately better than Hemsky offensively, the Oilers still only have 1 elite forward. Even with 20 more points from Kovalchuk (or someone of his calibre) the Oilers dont have enough holes filled to make the team a winner. Dont like Hemsky alone? dont get rid of him to get someone slightly better who will also be alone.

Avatar
#130 Ogden Brother
May 04 2009, 11:32AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

Archaeologuy wrote:

@ Ogden Brother: Might being the appropriate word. At what cost of trade and will he re-sign with the Oil long term at a reasonable rate? At this point if it isnt a sign and trade he’s just a rental player.

I mean he *might* be on the market, and is likely one of, if not the only player clearly better then Hemsky that could be in play. Personally, I'd swap him straight up if Kovalchuk was extended for $8 or less.

Avatar
#131 Ogden Brother
May 04 2009, 11:34AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

Archaeologuy wrote:

@ Ogden Brother: And here’s my issue with the whole idea. Let’s just say the Oilers convince another team to give them a player who is legitimately better than Hemsky offensively, the Oilers still only have 1 elite forward. Even with 20 more points from Kovalchuk (or someone of his calibre) the Oilers dont have enough holes filled to make the team a winner. Dont like Hemsky alone? dont get rid of him to get someone slightly better who will also be alone.

He's a scorer though, and far more durable. Hemsky has the mandated 10 game injury every year. Kovalchuk would be a huge upgrade for this team.

Avatar
#132 Archaeologuy
May 04 2009, 11:35AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

@ Ogden Brother: I dont know. 8Mill for ~90 points or 4 mill for ~70 points (assuming Hemsky never gets any better) with another 4 mill to spend on another player. If the option is one or the other, I still think the better value is Hemsky whose contract allows you to go after a second player.

It all depends on if you think the 20 extra points makes the Oilers Cup contenders.

Avatar
#133 Ogden Brother
May 04 2009, 11:36AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

Ogden Brother wrote:

Archaeologuy wrote: @ Ogden Brother: Might being the appropriate word. At what cost of trade and will he re-sign with the Oil long term at a reasonable rate? At this point if it isnt a sign and trade he’s just a rental player. I mean he *might* be on the market, and is likely one of, if not the only player clearly better then Hemsky that could be in play. Personally, I’d swap him straight up if Kovalchuk was extended for $8 or less.

Though I'd also be willing to give him a Zett type contract so we'd have to be willing to listen to you complain that he's being paid $11 million/year ;)

Avatar
#134 Archaeologuy
May 04 2009, 11:37AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

@ Archaeologuy: and I'm not arguing that Hemsky is a better player than Kovalchuk, not at all. Its about value and team building, thats all.

Avatar
#135 Ogden Brother
May 04 2009, 11:37AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

Archaeologuy wrote:

@ Ogden Brother: I dont know. 8Mill for ~90 points or 4 mill for ~70 points (assuming Hemsky never gets any better) with another 4 mill to spend on another player. If the option is one or the other, I still think the better value is Hemsky whose contract allows you to go after a second player. It all depends on if you think the 20 extra points makes the Oilers Cup contenders.

We also only get Hemsky at 4 million for 2 years past when Kovalchuks deal expires....then you have 70 points for 6.5/7 or whatever.

Avatar
#136 Archaeologuy
May 04 2009, 11:42AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

Ogden Brother wrote:

Though I’d also be willing to give him a Zett type contract so we’d have to be willing to listen to you complain that he’s being paid $11 million/year

at better than a point per game I can live with higher contracts, but the Oilers arent in the same boat as Detroit. Detroit can and HAS signed plyers at lower than market value, the Oilers cant. So Oilers can sign one guy at the max, but then they cant sign other good players at reasonable rates. It just takes more than 1 player to make a team a winner and since the Oilers arent a "winner" players arent signing here for below market value. They couldnt even re-sign Horc at a reasonable contract and he hasnt accomplished anything as a player!

Avatar
#137 Archaeologuy
May 04 2009, 11:44AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

@ Ogden Brother: but that's 2 years to try and turn the team into a winner or gain more assets, and if the Cap goes down in that time then so will salaries for UFAs.

Avatar
#138 Ogden Brother
May 04 2009, 11:49AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

Archaeologuy wrote:

Ogden Brother wrote: Though I’d also be willing to give him a Zett type contract so we’d have to be willing to listen to you complain that he’s being paid $11 million/year at better than a point per game I can live with higher contracts, but the Oilers arent in the same boat as Detroit. Detroit can and HAS signed plyers at lower than market value, the Oilers cant. So Oilers can sign one guy at the max, but then they cant sign other good players at reasonable rates. It just takes more than 1 player to make a team a winner and since the Oilers arent a “winner” players arent signing here for below market value. They couldnt even re-sign Horc at a reasonable contract and he hasnt accomplished anything as a player!

Really though, Det is just structuring their deals to manipulate the cap hit. Sure they are getting guys below what they could get in the open market, but that happens with almost any team.

Avatar
#139 Hemmertime
May 04 2009, 12:15PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

dragon wrote:

When you have 72 give-aways in 72 games, you’re putting quite some pressure on your buddies in D…Not too good for team building IMO.

Ya, when your chipping it up the boards or playing Staios/Stortini type hockey thats bad. When its 1 give away a game as you try to magically deke through their whole team 5 times, or have the puck on your sticki for 60% of your shift, your bound to get more.

Avatar
#140 Archaeologuy
May 04 2009, 12:22PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

@ Ogden Brother: Really? which teams are re-signing their best players for well below market value? Because the Oilers arent.

The gold standard for re-signing Oilers should have been Hemsky's contract. If players like Horc wanted to be Oilers long term they shouldnt have been offered more than Hemsky. Instead, they resign Horc at 1.5 more than Hemsky. Now when Hemsky's contract runs out he will laugh at anything below what Horcoff makes. Reason # 1739 why that contract is a poison for the Oilers.

Avatar
#141 Hemmertime
May 04 2009, 12:36PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

@ Archaeologuy: Just as long as when Hemmers contract is up we dont use the Linus Omark school of negotiating :) Tho I blame the player more on that one.

Avatar
#142 RossCreek
May 04 2009, 12:38PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

Archaeologuy wrote:

Now when Hemsky’s contract runs out he will laugh at anything below what Horcoff makes. Reason # 1739 why that contract is a poison for the Oilers.

Arch, you look like your on your "game" today ;-) Except, if you think Hemsky would take less than 5.5 mil 3 years from now, your dreaming (with or without yooooooou-Horcoff). In theory, I agree bad contracts affect your entire roster, but Hemsky's getting more than 5.5 regardless (health considered).

Avatar
#143 Archaeologuy
May 04 2009, 12:42PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

@ RossCreek: i woke up in a bad mood and it hasnt gotten any better.

5.5 mill in a lowered salary cap might be a good offer, we wont know until the time comes. Unfortunately the Oilers wont have the luxury of offering only that much.

Avatar
#144 Ogden Brother
May 04 2009, 01:04PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

Archaeologuy wrote:

@ Ogden Brother: Really? which teams are re-signing their best players for well below market value? Because the Oilers arent. The gold standard for re-signing Oilers should have been Hemsky’s contract. If players like Horc wanted to be Oilers long term they shouldnt have been offered more than Hemsky. Instead, they resign Horc at 1.5 more than Hemsky. Now when Hemsky’s contract runs out he will laugh at anything below what Horcoff makes. Reason # 1739 why that contract is a poison for the Oilers.

Iggy/Heatly/Thornton/Crosby/Malkin etc etc etc all could have gotten more on the open market... it's a pretty common theme that you usually are able to keep your own players for cheaper then attracting others FA's.

Also, your Hemsky as a "gold standard" idea is absolutly rediculous. Talk about a way to ensure you wont attract/keep any players.

Avatar
#145 Ogden Brother
May 04 2009, 01:06PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

Archaeologuy wrote:

@ RossCreek: i woke up in a bad mood and it hasnt gotten any better. 5.5 mill in a lowered salary cap might be a good offer, we wont know until the time comes. Unfortunately the Oilers wont have the luxury of offering only that much.

Oh brother, he knows what people make league wide, I'm fairly confident the Horc contract wasn't an eye opener for Hemsky.

Avatar
#146 Archaeologuy
May 04 2009, 01:14PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

Ogden Brother wrote:

Iggy/Heatly/Thornton/Crosby/Malkin etc etc etc all could have gotten more on the open market… it’s a pretty common theme that you usually are able to keep your own players for cheaper then attracting others FA’s. Also, your Hemsky as a “gold standard” idea is absolutly rediculous. Talk about a way to ensure you wont attract/keep any players.

All re-signed with WINNING teams and at the top of the pay scale for when they were signed, all of those teams were also not the Oilers.

Ogden Brother wrote:

Oh brother, he knows what people make league wide, I’m fairly confident the Horc contract wasn’t an eye opener for Hemsky.

really? You dont think he hears what Horc is offered and says "WTF? They give me 4 and they give that guy 5.5?" Nobody in the league would have paid Horc more than Hemsky, except the Oilers i guess.

Avatar
#147 Ogden Brother
May 04 2009, 01:16PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

Archaeologuy wrote:

Ogden Brother wrote: Iggy/Heatly/Thornton/Crosby/Malkin etc etc etc all could have gotten more on the open market… it’s a pretty common theme that you usually are able to keep your own players for cheaper then attracting others FA’s. Also, your Hemsky as a “gold standard” idea is absolutly rediculous. Talk about a way to ensure you wont attract/keep any players. All re-signed with WINNING teams and at the top of the pay scale for when they were signed, all of those teams were also not the Oilers. This isn't rocket science, guys typically get paid less before July 1 then on July 1.
Avatar
#148 Archaeologuy
May 04 2009, 01:21PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

@ Ogden Brother: That's right, except the Oilers have overpaid before July 1st for Pisani, Moreau, Nilsson, Horc, and Staios, so is your point that the Oilers' management has been grossly over-valuing their assets?

Your point works, generally, but not specifically to the Oilers. And again, All those top end guys you mentioned were signed at fair value near the top of the pay scale for the time the deals were signed, NOT below market value.

Avatar
#149 Ogden Brother
May 04 2009, 01:21PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

Archaeologuy wrote:

really? You dont think he hears what Horc is offered and says “WTF? They give me 4 and they give that guy 5.5?” Nobody in the league would have paid Horc more than Hemsky, except the Oilers i guess.

Want to know something interesting about the Horc/Hemsky contracts?

Hemsky was signed to 10.5% of the total cap after putting up .23GPG and .95PPG

Horc was signed to 9.8% of the total cap after putting up .40GPG and .94PPG

Avatar
#150 Ogden Brother
May 04 2009, 01:23PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
0
props

Archaeologuy wrote:

@ Ogden Brother: That’s right, except the Oilers have overpaid before July 1st for Pisani, Moreau, Nilsson, Horc, and Staios, so is your point that the Oilers’ management has been grossly over-valuing their assets? Your point works, generally, but not specifically to the Oilers. And again, All those top end guys you mentioned were signed at fair value near the top of the pay scale for the time the deals were signed, NOT below market value.

You sure? Iggy/Thorton/Heatly/Spezza all signed for around 7 million, before July 1. a few months latter (on July 1) Gomez/Drury/Brier/Karya signed for 6 - 7.5 million.

Comments are closed for this article.