Trade Hemsky?

Jonathan Willis
May 03 2009 11:31AM

Hemsky and Sakic

Jim Matheson floated the idea in his piece this morning, with the Los Angeles Kings being the destination and a package consisting of Dustin Brown and Matt Greene being the return.

Lowetide’s opinion is here; he examines things from an organizational angle and stresses what the benefits would be before saying he doesn’t like the idea. I completely agree with him, but I thought it might be worthwhile to examine the relative offensive production of Brown and Hemsky year by year in the NHL.

Ales Hemsky at 19: 59GP – 6G – 24A – 30PTS (.51 PPG) Dustin Brown at 19: 31GP – 1G – 4A – 5PTS (.16 PPG)

Ales Hemsky at 20: 71GP – 12G – 22A – 34PTS (.48 PPG) Dustin Brown at 21: 79GP – 14G – 14A – 28PTS (.35 PPG)

Ales Hemsky at 22: 81GP – 19G – 58A – 77PTS (.95 PPG) Dustin Brown at 22: 81GP – 17G – 29A – 46PTS (.57 PPG)

Ales Hemsky at 23: 64GP – 13G – 40A – 53PTS (.83 PPG) Dustin Brown at 23: 78GP – 33G – 27A – 60PTS (.77 PPG)

Ales Hemsky at 24: 74GP – 20G – 51A – 71PTS (.96 PPG) Dustin Brown at 24: 80GP – 24G – 29A – 53PTS (.66 PPG)

Ales Hemsky at 25: 72G – 23G – 43A – 66PTS (.92 PPG)

Career Totals By Age 24

Ales Hemsky: 349GP – 70G – 195A – 265PTS (.76 PPG) Dustin Brown: 349GP – 89G – 103A – 192PTS (.55 PPG)

If the Oilers were to make that trade they’d be sending away someone who was a better point producer at age 25 than Pavel Datsyuk, Jarome Iginla, Henrik Sedin and Jason Spezza. They’d be sending away the best offensive talent on the team for a guy who once hit 60 points. It would mean that the best offensive season recorded by anyone on the team, ever, was Shawn Horcoff’s 73 point effort in 2005-06.

It would be a mistake.

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Jonathan Willis is a freelance writer. He currently works for Oilers Nation, the Edmonton Journal and Bleacher Report. He's co-written three books and worked for myriad websites, including Grantland, ESPN, The Score, and Hockey Prospectus. He was previously the founder and managing editor of Copper & Blue.
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#151 Archaeologuy
May 04 2009, 01:25PM
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@ Ogden Brother: Horc is also older and only put up 1 half season like that and then wrecked his shoulder, while Hemsky is younger and has been tracking towards those numbers at a much more consistent rate than Horc ever has. Do you really think it matters to Hemsky what % his hit was at when he signed it if the Oilers spit in his face by offering Horc much more than him over a longer term?

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#152 Archaeologuy
May 04 2009, 01:27PM
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Ogden Brother wrote:

You sure? Iggy/Thorton/Heatly/Spezza all signed for around 7 million, before July 1. a few months latter (on July 1) Gomez/Drury/Brier/Karya signed for 6 - 7.5 million.

which at the time was the TOP of the pay scale.

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#153 Ogden Brother
May 04 2009, 01:27PM
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Archaeologuy wrote:

. Detroit can and HAS signed plyers at lower than market value

And my point had nothing to do with the Oilers, it's a comment on your comment:

. Detroit can and HAS signed plyers at lower than market value

In that league wide, teams typically keep their own players for cheaper then they attract others FA's.

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#154 Ogden Brother
May 04 2009, 01:27PM
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Archaeologuy wrote:

Ogden Brother wrote: You sure? Iggy/Thorton/Heatly/Spezza all signed for around 7 million, before July 1. a few months latter (on July 1) Gomez/Drury/Brier/Karya signed for 6 - 7.5 million. which at the time was the TOP of the pay scale.

You mean cap max?

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#155 myteammytown
May 04 2009, 01:28PM
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@ Ogden Brother:

you dirty google using man who**

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#156 Archaeologuy
May 04 2009, 01:29PM
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@ Ogden Brother: No i mean players werent being paid significantly more than those numbers, the Max has nothing to do with it.

Ogden Brother wrote:

And my point had nothing to do with the Oilers, it’s a comment on your comment: . Detroit can and HAS signed plyers at lower than market value In that league wide, teams typically keep their own players for cheaper then they attract others FA’s.

Ok well I'm talking about the Oilers, so when you want to talk about the Oilers again I will be here.

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#157 Ogden Brother
May 04 2009, 01:32PM
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Archaeologuy wrote:

@ Ogden Brother: No i mean players werent being paid significantly more than those numbers, the Max has nothing to do with it. Ogden Brother wrote: And my point had nothing to do with the Oilers, it’s a comment on your comment: . Detroit can and HAS signed plyers at lower than market value In that league wide, teams typically keep their own players for cheaper then they attract others FA’s. Ok well I’m talking about the Oilers, so when you want to talk about the Oilers again I will be here.

You're missing the point.

Supper stars signed for 7... a few months latter, good but not great players sign for 7.

Point is: Players are typically signed for below open market cost when they resign with their current team.

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#158 Ogden Brother
May 04 2009, 01:38PM
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Archaeologuy wrote:

@ Ogden Brother: Horc is also older and only put up 1 half season like that and then wrecked his shoulder, while Hemsky is younger and has been tracking towards those numbers at a much more consistent rate than Horc ever has. Do you really think it matters to Hemsky what % his hit was at when he signed it if the Oilers spit in his face by offering Horc much more than him over a longer term?

No Horc had those numbers 2 of the previous 3 years, it was Hemsky that had only had 1 season as a .9PPG+ season, he was a .5PPG season previous to that. Horcoff also had the added leverage of unrestricted free agency, which Hemsky didn't have.

Hemsky would have to be as stunned as alot of fans if he didn't realize the economic landscape of the NHL had changed in the 2+ years since he signed at the X

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#159 Archaeologuy
May 04 2009, 01:39PM
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@ Ogden Brother: No, you're missing the Point. Other than Hemsky, the Oilers havent been able to do that.

Iggy could have left for free agency and made within a million of his current salary, but Franzen could have made significantly more than what he re-signed for in Detroit. Hossa could have guaranteed himself about 71 million more dollars by signing in Etown, but he went to Detroit. Not the same as what happens in the rest of the league. We're talking about UFAs not RFAs.

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#160 Archaeologuy
May 04 2009, 01:40PM
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@ Ogden Brother: The team would be better off trading Horc than keeping him at 5.5 a year. too bad they didnt move him while he had cache, now he's dead weight.

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#161 Ogden Brother
May 04 2009, 01:42PM
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Archaeologuy wrote:

@ Ogden Brother: No, you’re missing the Point. Other than Hemsky, the Oilers havent been able to do that. Iggy could have left for free agency and made within a million of his current salary, but Franzen could have made significantly more than what he re-signed for in Detroit. Hossa could have guaranteed himself about 71 million more dollars by signing in Etown, but he went to Detroit. Not the same as what happens in the rest of the league. We’re talking about UFAs not RFAs.

As mentioned before, Det is simply taking advantage of a salary cap loop hole.

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#162 Ogden Brother
May 04 2009, 01:43PM
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Archaeologuy wrote:

@ Ogden Brother: The team would be better off trading Horc than keeping him at 5.5 a year. too bad they didnt move him while he had cache, now he’s dead weight.

Sigh, you know for all the whining you do about money, the team hasn't missed out on any players because the couldn't scrounge up the cap space.

Oh and also, no they aren't better off with no Horcoff and 5.5 in open cap space.

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#163 myteammytown
May 04 2009, 01:46PM
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Ogden Brother wrote:

Archaeologuy wrote: @ Ogden Brother: The team would be better off trading Horc than keeping him at 5.5 a year. too bad they didnt move him while he had cache, now he’s dead weight. Sigh, you know for all the whining you do about money, the team hasn’t missed out on any players because the couldn’t scrounge up the cap space. Oh and also, no they aren’t better off with no Horcoff and 5.5 in open cap space.

unless you are actually in management with the oilers, there is no way you can say that.

we, as fans, have no idea if there was a trade in place that fell through because the oilers couldnt clear the cap space

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#164 Ogden Brother
May 04 2009, 01:48PM
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myteammytown wrote:

Ogden Brother wrote: Archaeologuy wrote: @ Ogden Brother: The team would be better off trading Horc than keeping him at 5.5 a year. too bad they didnt move him while he had cache, now he’s dead weight. Sigh, you know for all the whining you do about money, the team hasn’t missed out on any players because the couldn’t scrounge up the cap space. Oh and also, no they aren’t better off with no Horcoff and 5.5 in open cap space. unless you are actually in management with the oilers, there is no way you can say that. we, as fans, have no idea if there was a trade in place that fell through because the oilers couldnt clear the cap space

I suppose, but the Vanek and Hossa offers present a pretty strong case that the space is accesable if need be.

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#165 Jonathan Willis
May 04 2009, 01:50PM
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Ogden Brother wrote:

Oh and also, no they aren’t better off with no Horcoff and 5.5 in open cap space.

~What, you mean that Gagner, Cogliano and Brodziak as centres #1, #2 and #3 isn't a recipe for success?~

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#166 myteammytown
May 04 2009, 01:52PM
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@ Ogden Brother:

different circumstance in the summer. teams can exceed the cap and clear space later.

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#167 Archaeologuy
May 04 2009, 01:52PM
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Ogden Brother wrote:

As mentioned before, Det is simply taking advantage of a salary cap loop hole.

What loop hole is that? Paying players on average less than they would make elsewhere is NOT a loophole, it's great management. They arent using offshore bank accounts to not have Hossa's salary count against the friggin Cap.

Ogden Brother wrote:

Oh and also, no they aren’t better off with no Horcoff and 5.5 in open cap space

Really? When the Cap shrinks and the Oil cant re-sign Gags and Cogs because of that insane contract go ahead and tell me that.

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#168 Archaeologuy
May 04 2009, 01:53PM
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Jonathan Willis wrote:

~What, you mean that Gagner, Cogliano and Brodziak as centres #1, #2 and #3 isn’t a recipe for success?~

~you mean signing a 2nd Rate player to a 1st rate contract which forces the team to lose its 1st rate talent isnt a recipe for success~

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#169 Ogden Brother
May 04 2009, 01:54PM
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Jonathan Willis wrote:

Ogden Brother wrote: Oh and also, no they aren’t better off with no Horcoff and 5.5 in open cap space. ~What, you mean that Gagner, Cogliano and Brodziak as centres #1, #2 and #3 isn’t a recipe for success?~

~Including the extra 2 bonus points you get for every million under the cap, we should be fine~

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#170 myteammytown
May 04 2009, 01:56PM
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@ Archaeologuy:

the contracts are designed to pay the player a huge % of the money in the front end, and designed for the player to retire before the deal expires.

it really isnt a loop hole, it is more really smart cap management from a team that a player and his agent are willing to work with

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#171 Archaeologuy
May 04 2009, 01:56PM
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Ogden Brother wrote:

~Including the extra 2 bonus points you get for every million under the cap, we should be fine~

~It shoud be OK because Cap space isnt needed to re-sign RFAs or acquire other players~

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#172 Ogden Brother
May 04 2009, 01:56PM
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Archaeologuy wrote:

Ogden Brother wrote: As mentioned before, Det is simply taking advantage of a salary cap loop hole. What loop hole is that? Paying players on average less than they would make elsewhere is NOT a loophole, it’s great management. They arent using offshore bank accounts to not have Hossa’s salary count against the friggin Cap. Ogden Brother wrote: Oh and also, no they aren’t better off with no Horcoff and 5.5 in open cap space Really? When the Cap shrinks and the Oil cant re-sign Gags and Cogs because of that insane contract go ahead and tell me that.

Giving players extra years (that I'm assuming they have no intensions of playing) at 1 million is the loop hole they are taking advantage of.

Like I said before, if you really want to complain abou Horcs contract, you should be complaining that they didn't give him an extra 3 years at one million.

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#173 Ogden Brother
May 04 2009, 01:57PM
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Archaeologuy wrote:

Ogden Brother wrote: Really? When the Cap shrinks and the Oil cant re-sign Gags and Cogs because of that insane contract go ahead and tell me that.

When that time comes you can complain all you want, I think you'll be suprised by how few teams have the space and desire to do it though.

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#174 Archaeologuy
May 04 2009, 01:59PM
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myteammytown wrote:

the contracts are designed to pay the player a huge % of the money in the front end, and designed for the player to retire before the deal expires. it really isnt a loop hole, it is more really smart cap management from a team that a player and his agent are willing to work with

That isnt a loop hole at all because only the average counts. The RedWings arent using special Math to outwit the Cap, they simply sign players for lower prices than other teams can.

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#175 Ogden Brother
May 04 2009, 01:59PM
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Archaeologuy wrote:

Ogden Brother wrote: ~Including the extra 2 bonus points you get for every million under the cap, we should be fine~ ~It shoud be OK because Cap space isnt needed to re-sign RFAs or acquire other players~

Again, when the time comes complain all you want. Right now you are complaining about a bunch of things that MAY happen someday.

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#176 Ogden Brother
May 04 2009, 02:00PM
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Archaeologuy wrote:

myteammytown wrote: the contracts are designed to pay the player a huge % of the money in the front end, and designed for the player to retire before the deal expires. it really isnt a loop hole, it is more really smart cap management from a team that a player and his agent are willing to work with That isnt a loop hole at all because only the average counts. The RedWings arent using special Math to outwit the Cap, they simply sign players for lower prices than other teams can.

Any team can give 30 year old players 11+ year contracts.

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#177 Archaeologuy
May 04 2009, 02:01PM
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@ Ogden Brother: I can complain right now about a Contract that will do incredibly more harm than good over its length.

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#178 myteammytown
May 04 2009, 02:08PM
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Archaeologuy wrote:

myteammytown wrote: the contracts are designed to pay the player a huge % of the money in the front end, and designed for the player to retire before the deal expires. it really isnt a loop hole, it is more really smart cap management from a team that a player and his agent are willing to work with That isnt a loop hole at all because only the average counts. The RedWings arent using special Math to outwit the Cap, they simply sign players for lower prices than other teams can.

the player isnt signing for a lower price. all the player is doing is agreeing to a different deal structure where he gets the same money over the short term and retires before the contract is up

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#179 Ogden Brother
May 04 2009, 02:13PM
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Archaeologuy wrote:

@ Ogden Brother: I can complain right now about a Contract that will do incredibly more harm than good over its length.

Ladies and gentlemen: I present you Nostradamus.

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#180 Ogden Brother
May 04 2009, 02:17PM
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Archaeologuy wrote:

That isnt a loop hole at all because only the average counts

"because only the average counts"

I'll have to remember that next time you bring up the number 7 ;)

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#181 Archaeologuy
May 04 2009, 02:40PM
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myteammytown wrote:

the player isnt signing for a lower price. all the player is doing is agreeing to a different deal structure where he gets the same money over the short term and retires before the contract is up

Right, because someone who averages 4 million over 4 years is NOT going to make less than someone making 6 million over 4 years, gotcha.

Ogden Brother wrote:

Archaeologuy wrote: @ Ogden Brother: I can complain right now about a Contract that will do incredibly more harm than good over its length. Ladies and gentlemen: I present you Nostradamus.

Ok, now I have to be Nostradamus to see that a player who cannot possibly justify his large contract in the face of a shrinking salary cap will not bring as many positives as negatives to the table. In his best season Horcoff didnt deserve to be paid at that rate, so now AFTER MAJOR INJURY and during the time in his career where he should be winding down not up do you expect that he will make me look like a fool?

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#182 Archaeologuy
May 04 2009, 02:43PM
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Ogden Brother wrote:

because only the average counts” I’ll have to remember that next time you bring up the number 7

If Marion Hossa has a season where he makes 7 mill a season I wont bat an eyelash. When I see that Horc will have a season where he makes 7 mill i do a spit-take and rage out. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that Horcoff is not that good.

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#183 topshelf
May 04 2009, 02:46PM
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@ dragon: You're crazy if you think Ales Hemsky is to blame for the Oilers' power plays woes and mediocre offense. Why not taking a look at the other 11 forwards or is it Hemsky's job to make sure that they produce as well?

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#184 Ogden Brother
May 04 2009, 02:56PM
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Archaeologuy wrote:

myteammytown wrote: the player isnt signing for a lower price. all the player is doing is agreeing to a different deal structure where he gets the same money over the short term and retires before the contract is up Right, because someone who averages 4 million over 4 years is NOT going to make less than someone making 6 million over 4 years, gotcha. I'm really suprised at your lack of understanding of the concept of front loading contracts.
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#185 kingsblade
May 04 2009, 02:57PM
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Ogden Brother wrote:

You sure? Iggy/Thorton/Heatly/Spezza all signed for around 7 million, before July 1. a few months latter (on July 1) Gomez/Drury/Brier/Karya signed for 6 - 7.5 million.

Beyond what arch said about this:

The first group signed before the cap was announced for the following year. The second group was all signed after the cap was announced. The cap went up significantly and those guys were the lucky ones who reaped the benefits.

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#186 Ogden Brother
May 04 2009, 03:01PM
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Archaeologuy wrote:

Ok, now I have to be Nostradamus to see that a player who cannot possibly justify his large contract in the face of a shrinking salary cap will not bring as many positives as negatives to the table. In his best season Horcoff didnt deserve to be paid at that rate, so now AFTER MAJOR INJURY and during the time in his career where he should be winding down not up do you expect that he will make me look like a fool?

Your assuming:

1. He can't get back to 20 - 25 goal 65-75 point pace for at least a couple of years

2. Salary's wont continue to go up over a 6 year time span.

3. The team will better FA players wanting to come to Edmonton for 5.5. The team will have equivalent FA players wanting to come to Edmonton for less then 5.5

4. Our RFA's will be squeezed out do to $$$

5. Our billionair owner wont be willing eat costs to improve the team.

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#187 Ogden Brother
May 04 2009, 03:13PM
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kingsblade wrote:

Ogden Brother wrote: You sure? Iggy/Thorton/Heatly/Spezza all signed for around 7 million, before July 1. a few months latter (on July 1) Gomez/Drury/Brier/Karya signed for 6 - 7.5 million. Beyond what arch said about this: The first group signed before the cap was announced for the following year. The second group was all signed after the cap was announced. The cap went up significantly and those guys were the lucky ones who reaped the benefits.

It should be pretty clear that you'll make more $$$ when you give up to 30 teams the ability to bid for your services rather then just 1.

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#188 dragon
May 04 2009, 03:15PM
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topshelf wrote:

@ dragon: You’re crazy if you think Ales Hemsky is to blame for the Oilers’ power plays woes and mediocre offense. Why not taking a look at the other 11 forwards or is it Hemsky’s job to make sure that they produce as well?

come to think about it, you are right. he shouldn't be blamed because he shouldn't be #1 point producer on a team. although he definitely has the talent he lacks the leadership. so, Oilers do not need to 'bring somebody for Hemsky' but bring a clear #1 offensive leader. Whether it's Hossa, Kowalchuk, Vinnie or Gaborik, they need sombody that shows up EVERY night and tries to put a game away...in my rookie hockey-fan opinion.

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#189 Chris
May 04 2009, 03:17PM
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Take a look at the HockeyBuzz cap central page. The Oilers are Cap committed to about $35 Million for the start of the 2010/2011 season. Unfortunately, that is with ONLY 11 players under contract. Many predict the cap to take a steep dive that season... How is Tambellini going to find HALF an NHL roster for 10-15 million dollars beyond next season? If Hemsky goes... I want DRAFT picks...Nay... Lottery Picks! Blow it up. Tambellini has to move salary as it is... Since Hemsky is both the cheapest and best Oiler first line player; moving him signals a total rebuild... AGAIN! If this is the case (And I hope it isn't) at least DO IT RIGHT.

If the Oilers brass are floating this "trade Hemsky" proposal to gauge the reaction of the fans...That is crap. I think it would be more fair to ask the good people of Oil Country if they can stomach ANOTHER rebuild.

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#190 Ogden Brother
May 04 2009, 03:19PM
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Chris wrote:

Take a look at the HockeyBuzz cap central page. The Oilers are Cap committed to about $35 Million for the start of the 2010/2011 season. Unfortunately, that is with ONLY 11 players under contract. Many predict the cap to take a steep dive that season… How is Tambellini going to find HALF an NHL roster for 10-15 million dollars beyond next season? If Hemsky goes… I want DRAFT picks…Nay… Lottery Picks! Blow it up. Tambellini has to move salary as it is… Since Hemsky is both the cheapest and best Oiler first line player; moving him signals a total rebuild… AGAIN! If this is the case (And I hope it isn’t) at least DO IT RIGHT. If the Oilers brass are floating this “trade Hemsky” proposal to gauge the reaction of the fans…That is crap. I think it would be more fair to ask the good people of Oil Country if they can stomach ANOTHER rebuild.

The cap situation looks bleak, however almost every team in the position to spend money, has a similar outlook.

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#191 Chris
May 04 2009, 03:22PM
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Ogden Brother wrote:

The cap situation looks bleak,

Specially when you look at WHICH eleven players are under contract. The Hemsky deal is the most palpable of the group.

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#192 topshelf
May 04 2009, 03:26PM
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dragon wrote:

he shouldn’t be blamed because he shouldn’t be #1 point producer on a team. although he definitely has the talent he lacks the leadership. so, Oilers do not need to ‘bring somebody for Hemsky’ but bring a clear #1 offensive leader. Whether it’s Hossa, Kowalchuk, Vinnie or Gaborik, they need sombody that shows up EVERY night and tries to put a game away…in my rookie hockey-fan opinion.

Who? Who is it you have in mind?

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#193 Ogden Brother
May 04 2009, 03:26PM
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Chris wrote:

Ogden Brother wrote: The cap situation looks bleak, Specially when you look at WHICH eleven players are under contract. The Hemsky deal is the most palpable of the group.

Yup, but again, all the spenders either have close to a whole roster to fill or have already spent roughly the same amount.

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#194 Chris
May 04 2009, 03:29PM
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Ouch. Took a closer look. Lubo's contract wasn't included because he was on the I.R... So make that $40 million committed to 12 players. The league projects the cap to be BELOW 50 million. Tambellini needs to drop salary (somehow) and bring vetran guys in on ONE year deals.

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#195 Ogden Brother
May 04 2009, 03:37PM
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Chris wrote:

Ouch. Took a closer look. Lubo’s contract wasn’t included because he was on the I.R… So make that $40 million committed to 12 players. The league projects the cap to be BELOW 50 million. Tambellini needs to drop salary (somehow) and bring vetran guys in on ONE year deals.

That's where Jagr at one year comes in ;)

Guerin on a one year deal looks good to.

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#196 Chris
May 04 2009, 03:38PM
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@ Ogden Brother: ~I guess it's okay. The Oilers can fill out their roster with all the carefully stockpiled depth in the farm system~

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#197 dragon
May 04 2009, 03:43PM
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topshelf wrote:

dragon wrote: he shouldn’t be blamed because he shouldn’t be #1 point producer on a team. although he definitely has the talent he lacks the leadership. so, Oilers do not need to ‘bring somebody for Hemsky’ but bring a clear #1 offensive leader. Whether it’s Hossa, Kowalchuk, Vinnie or Gaborik, they need sombody that shows up EVERY night and tries to put a game away…in my rookie hockey-fan opinion. Who? Who is it you have in mind?

I'd try on tree leads (Hossa, Kovalchuk and Gaborik) keeping an eye to what's going to happen in Sharkland.

I also believe we should wait an see who the coach will be. Maybe he's happy with what he has, although that doesn't change the lockeroom situation.

That's what's puzzling about Jim floting this idea. Coach comes first, then we're talking trades...

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#198 Ogden Brother
May 04 2009, 04:00PM
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Lets take a sampling of some of the other teams, say every third: (assume a 48 cap)

Ducks

22 million in 6 players

Major holes to fill with 26 million

4 top 6 forwards/3 top 4 dmen

Sabres

37 million in 9 players

Major holes to fill with 11 million

2 top 6 forwards/3 top 4 dmen

Hawks

23 million in 5 players

Major holes to fill with 25 million

5 top 6 forwards/4 top 4 dmen

Wings

38 million in 10 players

Major holes to fill with 10 million

3 top 6 forwards/1 top 4 dman/1 starting goalie?

27 million in 8 players

Wild

27 million in 8 players

Major holes to fill with 21 million

3 top 6 forwards/2 top 4 dmen

Devils

34 million in 9 players

Major holes to fill with 14 million

3 top 6 forwards/2 top 4 dmen

Senators

38 million in 9 players

Major holes to fill with 10 million

2 top 6 forwards/2 top 4 dmen

Pens

38 million in 10 players

Major holes to fill with 10 million

3 top 6 forwards/3 top 4 dmen

32 million in 9 players

Major holes to fill with 16 million

1 top 6 forward/5 top 4 dmen

Washington

28 million in 7 players

Major holes to fill with 20 million

4 Top 6 forwards/2 top 4 Dmen/1 Starting goalie

Oilers

40 million in 11 players

Major holes to fill with 8 million

1 Top 6 foward/1 Top 4 Dman/1 Starting goalie

Other notables:

Flames

37 million in 9 players

Major holes to fill with 11 million

4 Top 6 forwards/1 top 4 dman

NYR

35 million in 7 players

Major holes to fill with 13 million

4 Top 6 forwards/2 top 4 dmen

Flyers

43 million in 11 players

Major holes to fill with 5 million

2 top 4 Dmen/1 starting goalie.

Those with space are going to look alot different after they fill out their rosters this July 1.

Also, who wants to bet something is done to keep the ceiling from dropping (at least by alot)???

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#199 Archaeologuy
May 04 2009, 04:39PM
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@ Ogden Brother: What makes you think i dont understand front loading contracts? I think you're the one who doesnt understand that when a guy is making 1 million bucks in reality his cap hit will STILL be the average of his whole contract.

So i dont understand how if Horc was making 1 mill for the last 2 years of his contract it would really matter because the Oilers have to count his average against the cap.

Either you arent making a sensible point or youre assuming part of your argument which hasnt actually been said.

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#200 myteammytown
May 04 2009, 05:31PM
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Archaeologuy wrote:

myteammytown wrote: the player isnt signing for a lower price. all the player is doing is agreeing to a different deal structure where he gets the same money over the short term and retires before the contract is up Right, because someone who averages 4 million over 4 years is NOT going to make less than someone making 6 million over 4 years, gotcha. Ogden Brother wrote: Archaeologuy wrote: @ Ogden Brother: I can complain right now about a Contract that will do incredibly more harm than good over its length. Ladies and gentlemen: I present you Nostradamus. Ok, now I have to be Nostradamus to see that a player who cannot possibly justify his large contract in the face of a shrinking salary cap will not bring as many positives as negatives to the table. In his best season Horcoff didnt deserve to be paid at that rate, so now AFTER MAJOR INJURY and during the time in his career where he should be winding down not up do you expect that he will make me look like a fool?

do you understand how the contract structures work for zetterberg and franzen?

let us say, for example these 2 scenarios, hopefully you can follow:

Player 1: signs an 8 year deal, averaging 4 mil per. the last 2 years are at 1 mil per, so he is getting 30 mil for the first 6

player 2: signs an 8 year deal, averaging 4 mil per, getting 4 mil per every year.

so, player 1 has the same cap hit as player 2, but the money is structured so that the huge % is in the first 6 years.( sound like detroit yet?) player 1 can then retire after 6 years, having made 30mil.

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