Scavenging the Internets – Heatley, Sutter, and God Willing, Stuff I Have Not Already Tired Of

Jonathan Willis
June 10 2009 12:52PM

hyena

It’s been two days, and already I tire of the Heatley rumours. That said, here are a few of the takes from around the blogosphere:

Despite all the rumours of Brent Sutter going to work for his brother in Calgary, Jim Matheson has made a rather bold statement: “Sutter will not be joining brother Darryl in Calgary.” Matheson knows what he’s talking about, I’m sure, and when he says this I’m convinced. He also gets a quote on Brent Sutter’s connection to Edmonton:

“I heard all these rumours with Edmonton, too, before they hired their staff. All the speculation because it’s an hour and 15 minutes from my farm. I had nothing to do with the Edmonton Oilers.”

And speaking of the Sutter family, Pat Quinn made a comment the other day that just begs for tildes. Here’s what Quinn said:

"They'll have someone new in here whether it may be a Sutter coming back in, I don't know that. They're a wonderful family and a big family, so maybe they'll put all seven back there."

And here it is again, with a minor fix:

~They'll have someone new in here whether it may be a Sutter coming back in, I don't know that. They're a wonderful family and a big family, so maybe they'll put all seven back there.~

Better, yes?

With the NHL Entry Draft coming up, there are a lot of unheralded prospects who are about to be thrust into the spotlight. There are, fortunately people who follow junior hockey and are willing to tell us things; if anyone’s interested there are two sites I’d recommend:

NHL Draft Notes is written by Red Line Report’s Michael Remmerde. He’s based out of Western Canada and is in the process of doing profiles on 60 draft-eligible players in the region.

OHL Prospects is a group blog which gets contributions from a pair of former Hockey’s Future writers and a fan, all three of whom follow the Ontario Hockey League closely.

Finally, if you’re sick of everything Dany Heatley or Brent Sutter related, here are some articles worth checking out:

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Jonathan Willis is a freelance writer. He currently works for Oilers Nation, Sportsnet, the Edmonton Journal and Bleacher Report. He's co-written three books and worked for myriad websites, including Grantland, ESPN, The Score, and Hockey Prospectus. He was previously the founder and managing editor of Copper & Blue.
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#51 Jason Gregor
June 10 2009, 09:38PM
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Jonathan Willis wrote:

We were falling all over Nilsson last season and O’Sullivan’s so much better that it’s almost laughable. Better defensively, and with better offensive results on top of it.

Here are their career numbers:

GP G A PTS +- SHOTS S% Nilsson 192 26 65 91 2 257 10.1% O'Sullivan 207 43 72 115 -20 571 7.5%

Nilsson has a better +- so is he really that much worse defensively than O'Sullivan.

Last year O'Sullivan averaged 19:08 of icetime, and Nilsson had 15:11, with O'Sullivan getting :30 more a game on the PP and 1:00 more of 5-on-5.

In 2007/2008 Nilsson averaged 13:55 per game with 2:16 on the PP, while O'Sullivan had 18:42 per game with 2:25 on the PP.

O'Sullivan played 82 games and had 22 goals and 31 assists. Nilsson played 71 and had 10 goals and 31 assists.

O'Sullivan is a better goal scorer, but also got 2:30 more five on five icetime per game. Which is equal to three full games and a period of extra ice time. He should score more.

I'm not a huge fan of either right now. To me both need to be more consistent, but O'Sullivan's numbers aren't that dominant compared to Nilsson. O'Sullivan is better all-around, but I think Nilsson will be the biggest benefactor of the new coaching regime. Mostly because he will be more dedicated, which makes Quinn's job that much easier.

If he gets dealt for Heatley I don't think that is giving up on him, rather it means he has some value. I agree his 20 games with the Oilers were not a true reflection of his ability, and I think Nilsson getting a clean slate with Quinn will automatically make him better.

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#52 Jonathan Willis
June 10 2009, 10:26PM
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Jason Gregor wrote:

Nilsson has a better +- so is he really that much worse defensively than O’Sullivan.

You mentioned that O'Sullivan is better all-round, so I'm guessing that you're mostly playing Devil's advocate here. Nilsson's +/- may be better, but he's certainly had an easier role to play than O'Sullivan; plus O'Sullivan plays the PK.Jason Gregor wrote:

If he gets dealt for Heatley I don’t think that is giving up on him, rather it means he has some value.

And I agree here, too. I would move O'Sullivan. I just suspect that most Oilers' fans don't give him due credit.

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#53 Archaeologuy
June 10 2009, 11:48PM
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Little known fact. The un-cropped picture from this article shows that the Hyena was actually looking at Dustin Penner, who took a wrong turn in Millwoods while looking for a good late night Donair place. True story.

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#54 RossCreek
June 10 2009, 11:51PM
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AS THE CROW FLIES SOUTH. I can see this headline now. Dallas to name Marc Crawford new coach :-) *OilersNation breathes a sigh of relief as a despised coach leaves CBC and lands in hated Dallas*

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#55 humantorch
June 11 2009, 01:11AM
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~Suddenly I have an overwhelming desire to play Yahtzee.~

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#56 Lofty
June 11 2009, 07:26AM
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The most we can hope for from Nillson or Patty O is a trade piece that helps land the oil something worth while. Neither one of them is the answer to the problem

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#57 The Menace
June 11 2009, 07:47AM
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Librarian Mike wrote:

Ender the Dragon wrote: Jokinen will be the difference. Only if the NHL starts awarding points for being funny looking.

But with Phaneuf going the other way, they lose a lot of points in this category!

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#58 The Menace
June 11 2009, 07:53AM
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Lofty wrote:

The most we can hope for from Nillson or Patty O is a trade piece that helps land the oil something worth while. Neither one of them is the answer to the problem

I don't think this is anywhere close to the truth - with a new coaching staff, we have no idea what to expect from Nillson, O'Sullivan, or Penner for that matter. I'm expecting that Quinn and Renney will get a lot more out of any of those three left here come training camp.

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#59 The Menace
June 11 2009, 07:55AM
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Lofty wrote:

The most we can hope for from Nillson or Patty O is a trade piece that helps land the oil something worth while. Neither one of them is the answer to the problem

Why would they have hired new coaches, if they didn't think they should be getting more out of the players?

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#60 Cam
June 11 2009, 08:08AM
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The Menace wrote:

with a new coaching staff, we have no idea what to expect from Nillson, O’Sullivan, or Penner for that matter. I’m expecting that Quinn and Renney will get a lot more out of any of those three left here come training camp.

I agree with you. I think Penner and Nilsson could do nothing right last year, and they are both very young and when you get told you are a piece of crap enough by your coach I think you begin to believe it and think: "what's the point"

Dale Carnegie was a pretty smart man and he established a list of human relations principles which were designed to get the most out of people. Here are some of them:

Rule number 1. Don't criticize condemn or complain.

Rule number 23. Call attention to people's mistakes indirectly.

Rule number 26. Let the other person save face.

Rule number 28. Give the other person a fine reputaiton to live up to.

Above is just a few examples. MacTavish seemed to violate almost every human relations principle in the book when dealing with Penner and Nilsson. It is no surprise to me that their production sucked.

Motivating people isn't always about being a hardass. You can be firm and fair and have clear expectations without being a jerk.

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#61 BigE57
June 11 2009, 08:48AM
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Penner showed signs of what he is capable of last year. It's not like he is playing with Getzlaf and Perry anymore. If he comes to camp motivated and nobody shows him where the buffet table is, I think he is capable of 25-30 goals again.

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#62 Archaeologuy
June 11 2009, 09:14AM
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Just read an article by Ken Warren of the Ottawa citizen about the rumours of Heatley and the trade possibilities.

In that article he never even mentions Gilbert. He actually discusses Penner and O'Sullivan. Could you guys imagine how amazing that would be? I like Penner, I think he got a bum deal under MacT. BUT STILL! Hey Murray, I've got these magic beans, I'll trade them for that 50 goal scorer you've got. The Oilers would trim fat from the roster AND still have a PMD to shop around to fill other holes on the club.

Back to reality. Obviously that kind of crazy talk is what lands a guy a job at the Ottawa citizen and not the GM position of an NHL club, but I will continue to dream.

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#63 Oilersordeath
June 11 2009, 09:16AM
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I dont know about Nilsson, I'm not sold on him being able to become a 50-60 point guy like most of us think(hope) he can be. He's very weak and lazy and seems to think the puck is just gonna land on his stick every shift. I think the sooner he's gone the better. But with Penner and O'Sully I have a better feeling about them, I think they will have a much better season 2010.

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#64 Tackleberry
June 11 2009, 09:57AM
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Okay so here is my pipe dream and first kick at the can on this armchair GM thing.

Heatley for J.Willis' Gilbert/Cogliano/Eberle combo

Pursue Bouwmeester aggressively. Possibly offer up some Oilers or AHL players or mix of spare parts (Schremp and Pouliot?) to FLA for the rights to J-Bo since they know they aren't getting him back come July 1. Offer and sign Bouwmeester to a $6ish million a year for several years front loaded. Some bonus money if he meets some preset goals. (Honestly I really don't know what his worth is or what he is asking, I am just guessing here) Seeing as J-Bo is allegedly building a house here in EDM and his parents are here there is at least a reasonable chance that he would consider donning copper and blue.

Now at the same time you ask Souray if he would wave his NTC to go to the Sunshine State. As far as the available intel and rumours say he wants to be there anyways, especially since he expressed that he doesn't like not seeing his daughters. Based on that Souray just might agree. Call up LA and offer Souray for their 5th draft pick (which is possibly Evander Kane or Brayden Schenn) and whatever other picks or prospects they add to the mix, even if undervalued slightly to Souray's net worth. Items that don't cost much in the way of cap space as Souray's salary is basically now going to J-Bo. LA has the cap space, the money and the desire to rebuild. I doubt they would say no to getting a proven Top 2 D-man for picks/prospects especially if they feel they are getting the better of the deal.

Nilsson and possibly a draft pick to the MIN Wild for Harding.

So essentially this is the trade mix.

Heatley for Gilbert/Cogs/Eberle (Proven sniper for top 4 D-man and two smaller forwards) $7.5 million cap hit for $5.7 mil ($4 mil, $0.85 mil, $0.85 mil) = +$1.8mil

Bouwmeester signed for the cost of spare parts to FLA for his rights. $6ish million cap hit for lets say $1.7 mil = +$4.5ish mil

Souray to LA Kings for their 1st Round pick plus whatever else. $5.4mil vs entry level contract = -$4.5mil (Essentially you are trading Cogs and Eberle and getting a Evander Kane or Brayden Schenn plus extras.)

Nilsson/draft pick to MIN Wild for Harding. $2 mil for whatever $$ figure Harding would be signed for.

Okay, so I am ready to be raked over the coals now. Comments??

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#65 JRocks247
June 11 2009, 10:52AM
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@ Tackleberry: Ah being an armchair GM is fun isn't it.

I for one just don't like the moving of Eberle, the guy grew up idolizing the Oil. I know it's a business and all but what a kick in the groin that'd be. Almost like watching your favorite team miss the playoffs by a slim margin for the last two years....damn, i just made myself sad...

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#66 Jonathan Willis
June 11 2009, 11:02AM
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@ JRocks247:

I used to put a lot of stock in that "grew up cheering for the Oilers" line; then the Oilers acquired Mike Comrie and Joffrey Lupul, and I'm now convinced that nobody who ever considered cheering for the team should ever be allowed to play for them ;)

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#67 Jason Gregor
June 11 2009, 11:04AM
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Cam wrote:

Dale Carnegie was a pretty smart man and he established a list of human relations principles which were designed to get the most out of people. Here are some of them:

Best quote ever. Carnegie is a genius and his books are excellent reads.

@ Tackleberry:

Getting the 5th pick overall for Souray is not undervaluing Souray. I doubt the Kings would do that. Souray has at the most four really good years left, a top five pick normally turns out 10-12 solid years, and some of them can be exceptional years.

And right now there are many in the organization who wonder if Harding is any better than JDD. JDD has had to deal with lots of adversity so far in his pro career, and he is now mentally stronger for it. They liked how he played last year, and don't forget it was MacTavish who didn't play him at all down the stretch.

He needs a chance to prove he can play, and so does Harding, but I sense the Oilers might just stick with Deslauriers and see what he can do.

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#68 Bar Qu
June 11 2009, 11:04AM
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Dallas has hired Crawford!

It's like a two-fer deal. No more listening to crazy, useless verbage during hockey games AND Dallas gets stuck with a terrible coach for a terrible team!

It's not Christmas is it? ;)

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#69 Cam
June 11 2009, 11:06AM
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@ Tackleberry: Interesting thoughts... I am not sure about Souray for a fifth (a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush), but it is a deep draft year so hopefully we get something better than a Brule or a Bonsignore.

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#70 Curious
June 11 2009, 11:23AM
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I dont think we have to worry about goaltending...there is like 10 decent options available and only a few teams looking. Who other the the Oilers really arent settled on a starter now? I think we finally see salaries come down especially for goalies because the demand just isnt there.

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#71 Jonathan Willis
June 11 2009, 11:30AM
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@ Cam: @ Jason Gregor: @ Tackleberry:

Gregor's right about this - I doubt LA would be willing to move the 5th OV pick for Souray; maybe if the Oilers were willing to take some salary back (Preissing, perhaps).

I'd still say the Oilers should make that move; MPS or MSP or however he arranges his initials these days should be available at #5 and he's going to be something else.

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#72 RossCreek
June 11 2009, 12:27PM
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No chance LA gives up the 5th for Souray. Noboday out there wants Patrick Marleau? Marleau and Murray for Souray and Moreau?

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#73 RossCreek
June 11 2009, 12:29PM
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Noboday? WTF

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#74 Sean
June 11 2009, 01:14PM
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Souray and the 10th for LA's 5th? I would.

(assuming of course JBo is willing to sign here)

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#75 Tackleberry
June 11 2009, 01:22PM
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@ Sean: Yeah my Souray trade was based on already having signed J-Bo.

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#76 Lofty
June 11 2009, 01:31PM
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The Menace wrote:

Why would they have hired new coaches, if they didn’t think they should be getting more out of the players?

You are either really optimistic or related to Nilson/Patty O and trying to make excuses.

These boys are exactly what is wrong with the Oil. Medicore small forwards that dont put points on the board.

Quinn and Renney will be good but they aren't magicians. They need players that are fiesty, productive and consistent. These boys aint.

New coaches came in for PR and because it was a lot easier than trading everyone. Something had to change and as always that means the coach.

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#77 The Menace
June 11 2009, 01:44PM
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@ Lofty: That doesn't make any sense - let's say I have a bowl of fruit. The apples, bananas and pears are bad, but there are some cantaloupes that are ok. Why would I getr rid of the cantaloupes and bring in another melon to go with the bad fruit?

On the other hand, if you think you still have some fruit you can work with but your melon is bad, you get yourself a new melon, and see how it looks with your other fruit.

I hope this has cleared things up.

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#78 The Menace
June 11 2009, 01:46PM
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another way to put this: If they thought MacT was doing the best job possible with the players he had, he wouldn't have gotten fired.

They have spent the last 3 seasons changing the other fruit, with the same results. Now it's time to look at the melons.

*thinks he should spend the afternoon looking at melons*

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#79 Curious
June 11 2009, 02:10PM
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Marleau is not as sexy as Heatley@ RossCreek:

I think Marleau is more realistic, I cant see this Heatley thing ever coming to pass...

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#80 Lofty
June 11 2009, 02:13PM
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The Menace wrote:

That doesn’t make any sense - let’s say I have a bowl of fruit. The apples, bananas and pears are bad, but there are some cantaloupes that are ok. Why would I getr rid of the cantaloupes and bring in another melon to go with the bad fruit? On the other hand, if you think you still have some fruit you can work with but your melon is bad, you get yourself a new melon, and see how it looks with your other fruit. I hope this has cleared things up.

Where did this fruit talk come from...

You get a new owner, new GM, as well as fans loosing their minds over the last 2 seasons so naturaly you get a new coach. Most knowledgable hockey fans know that MacT is a good coach that had to go because things wernt working as a whole for the organization (bad farm, bad managment of contracts, no playoffs.)

You want to tell me that MacT is the soul reason that Nilson has been a no-show?

I'll tell ya where to stick that Banana... its the same place you got your head... not really just the fruit thing was bit much.

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#81 The Menace
June 11 2009, 02:30PM
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I don't think that MacT is a bad coach - I think the players here had tuned him out. A new face and coaching staff often gets different results from the same group of players. There's no reason that we should assume we'll get the same Nillson, the same O'Sullivan and the same Penner with the new staff.

I'm taking a wait and see approach.

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#82 Antony Ta
June 11 2009, 03:16PM
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@ Cam:

Great point.

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#83 Jack Bauer
June 11 2009, 03:17PM
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Its an amazing day!

That piece of human scum, Crawford is now off my TV and satilite radio, and will be in the depths of hell with Dallas...at least until he gets canned.

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#84 Librarian Mike
June 11 2009, 03:25PM
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@ Jack Bauer:

It's fitting that Crawford's going to Texas, because his tactics are bush! Bush League! You hear me Crow?!?

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#85 heavyd
June 11 2009, 03:40PM
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Gregor is saying that katz will do pretty much anything to get heatly.

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#86 scorcoff hemmercules
June 11 2009, 03:49PM
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@ heavyd:

I don't doubt that for a second.

In other news, Pete Peters is done as our goalie coach. That adds another thing for Tambo to do this summer, I don't envy that guy one bit.

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#87 Harlie
June 11 2009, 06:22PM
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heavyd wrote:

Gregor is saying that katz will do pretty much anything to get heatly.

Thats what I like to hear. Heatley who is from Calgary playing in Edmonton. Iginla who is from Edmonton playing in Calgary. Diggin it.

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#88 Harlie
June 11 2009, 06:31PM
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scorcoff hemmercules wrote:

In other news, Pete Peters is done as our goalie coach.

is that for reals?

Bye bye Rolli.

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#89 Archaeologuy
June 11 2009, 09:09PM
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heavyd wrote:

Gregor is saying that katz will do pretty much anything to get heatly.

That kind of scares me. Thats kind of like advertizing how much money you have to a car salesman. Bad move. Even if he will do almost anything to get Heatley, i would prefer it if news was coming out that Tambi + Katz were playing hard ball.

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#90 Dave
June 11 2009, 09:31PM
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Archaeologuy wrote:

i would prefer it if news was coming out that Tambi + Katz were playing hard ball.

How do you play hardball when you want an opposing player, and when other teams will also be in the mix. Gregor hinted it wasn't about selling the farm but in other ways...not sure what he meant...

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#91 Dave
June 11 2009, 09:32PM
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I linked to his site because I thought he would have his interview with Dreger up there..but I can't find it...WTF...Gregor how come no clips from him or the coaches yesterday...

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#92 Archaeologuy
June 11 2009, 09:38PM
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@ Dave: I just dont want the Oilers to do what the Islanders did to get Yashin. Not that Heatley is Yashin, but still. Things of value need to be given up, no doubt, but doing almost anything to get the deal done leaves room for a little concern.

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#93 Jason Gregor
June 11 2009, 09:39PM
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Dave wrote:

I linked to his site because I thought he would have his interview with Dreger up there..but I can’t find it…WTF…Gregor how come no clips from him or the coaches yesterday…

Dave, (thanks for clarifying you weren't trying to be me) and you are bang on we should have the clips up...Fraser will get 20 lashes for not posting them..although his computer crashed today, so he was freaking out...haha

I have a post on Katz coming out later tonight...

Archaeology... it isn't that Katz will sell the farm to get Heatley, but he is willing to do....article coming.

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#94 Archaeologuy
June 11 2009, 10:13PM
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Jason Gregor wrote:

Archaeology… it isn’t that Katz will sell the farm to get Heatley, but he is willing to do….article coming.

ha ha. good teaser, you crazy radio guys and your ability to make me wait through commercials.

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#95 ggstarling
June 21 2009, 06:45PM
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Hello everyone! This morning I have found a very funny cartoon about the office workers everyday life. I recommend this for all to elevate your mood. I helped)) You can watch this toon <a href=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neFYTsNFzmc here

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