Scavenging the Internets – Heatley, Sutter, and God Willing, Stuff I Have Not Already Tired Of

Jonathan Willis
June 10 2009 12:52PM

hyena

It’s been two days, and already I tire of the Heatley rumours. That said, here are a few of the takes from around the blogosphere:

Despite all the rumours of Brent Sutter going to work for his brother in Calgary, Jim Matheson has made a rather bold statement: “Sutter will not be joining brother Darryl in Calgary.” Matheson knows what he’s talking about, I’m sure, and when he says this I’m convinced. He also gets a quote on Brent Sutter’s connection to Edmonton:

“I heard all these rumours with Edmonton, too, before they hired their staff. All the speculation because it’s an hour and 15 minutes from my farm. I had nothing to do with the Edmonton Oilers.”

And speaking of the Sutter family, Pat Quinn made a comment the other day that just begs for tildes. Here’s what Quinn said:

"They'll have someone new in here whether it may be a Sutter coming back in, I don't know that. They're a wonderful family and a big family, so maybe they'll put all seven back there."

And here it is again, with a minor fix:

~They'll have someone new in here whether it may be a Sutter coming back in, I don't know that. They're a wonderful family and a big family, so maybe they'll put all seven back there.~

Better, yes?

With the NHL Entry Draft coming up, there are a lot of unheralded prospects who are about to be thrust into the spotlight. There are, fortunately people who follow junior hockey and are willing to tell us things; if anyone’s interested there are two sites I’d recommend:

NHL Draft Notes is written by Red Line Report’s Michael Remmerde. He’s based out of Western Canada and is in the process of doing profiles on 60 draft-eligible players in the region.

OHL Prospects is a group blog which gets contributions from a pair of former Hockey’s Future writers and a fan, all three of whom follow the Ontario Hockey League closely.

Finally, if you’re sick of everything Dany Heatley or Brent Sutter related, here are some articles worth checking out:

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Jonathan Willis is a freelance writer. He currently works for Oilers Nation, Sportsnet, the Edmonton Journal and Bleacher Report. He's co-written three books and worked for myriad websites, including Grantland, ESPN, The Score, and Hockey Prospectus. He was previously the founder and managing editor of Copper & Blue.
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#1 The Towel Boy
June 10 2009, 12:58PM
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I don't see my take in your list Jonathan.

*lowers head in sadness, quietly leaves room*

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#2 Jonathan Willis
June 10 2009, 01:02PM
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@ The Towel Boy:

Better?

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#3 The Towel Boy
June 10 2009, 01:10PM
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@ Jonathan Willis:

haha

Thanks!

*runs off to watch stats counter go off the chart*

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#4 dyckster
June 10 2009, 01:17PM
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I hope that's not what rookie GM Steve Tambellini is going to look like after his first pressure packed Entry Draft and Free Agent Sale season. (Cuts and pastes picture of water buffalo with guts hanging out.)

Having said that, I think he's going to do us Oil Fans proud.

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#5 Wanye Gretz
June 10 2009, 01:32PM
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WHAT?? How can you be tired of Heatley already?

*looks at recent stats for the Nation and thanks Mr and Mrs Heatley for giving birth to a son*

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#6 Dustin Penner's 2nd Chin
June 10 2009, 01:40PM
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It's amazing that there's this much to talk about (or rather, how crazy we are to jump at scrap pieces of offseason meat) when there's a fricking Game 7 SCF to be played on Friday night. Not to mention the whole Coyotes debacle.

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#7 Cam
June 10 2009, 01:48PM
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Dustin Penner's 2nd Chin wrote:

It’s amazing that there’s this much to talk about (or rather, how crazy we are to jump at scrap pieces of offseason meat) when there’s a fricking Game 7 SCF to be played on Friday night. Not to mention the whole Coyotes debacle.

I think most people on this site are oiler-centric. Hence even a scrap of info that might impact the oil trumps the NHL SCF. We are Oiler fans first and hockey fans second... at least I am.

When it looked like the Oilers might move in 94 I was determined that if they did I would no longer watch any hockey. It would have been a one man boycott.

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#8 dyckster
June 10 2009, 01:48PM
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@ Dustin Penner's 2nd Chin:

BAH!, This is OILERSNATION.COM, who cares about anything else!

Just kidding, Pittsburgh 4-2 with an empty netter. Malkin Playoff MVP.

I hope Blackberry guy DOESN'T get a team cuz he's a dink. Although I don't agree how the commish is handling the situation either. To Pro-US, it's obvious to everyone with an unbiased opinion that the team would do better in just about any major city in Canada. GO JETS GO!

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#9 Jamie
June 10 2009, 02:18PM
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I can't see any fix in the Quinn comment. What? *feels stupid*

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#10 Archaeologuy
June 10 2009, 02:22PM
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The Towel Boy wrote:

I don’t see my take in your list Jonathan. *lowers head in sadness, quietly leaves room*

Jonathan Willis wrote:

@ The Towel Boy: Better?

The Towel Boy wrote:

@ Jonathan Willis: haha Thanks! *runs off to watch stats counter go off the chart*

Who Saw That Coming?!

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#11 dyckster
June 10 2009, 02:27PM
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Jamie wrote:

I can’t see any fix in the Quinn comment. What? *feels stupid*

Me neither..stupidx2? The only thing I found is if you click on the "made a comment" link the writer of the article spells put p u t t. Other than that I'm with ya Jamie. Please help JW.

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#12 Jonathan Willis
June 10 2009, 02:30PM
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@ dyckster:

That's because I ~fixed~ it.

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#13 Robin Brownlee
June 10 2009, 02:33PM
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Coming Down the Pipe! has been doing a great draft preview series; I’d strongly recommend it.

Is KP still doing a GREAT job?

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#14 dyckster
June 10 2009, 02:34PM
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@ Jonathan Willis:

Soooooooooooooooo you removed the ""'s and added the ~~'s?

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#15 Madagain
June 10 2009, 02:41PM
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Tildes "~" are sometimes used to denote sarcasm in posts.

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#16 Jason Gregor
June 10 2009, 02:43PM
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Today, Daum, Pearn and Clare Drake in studio at 4 pm...Might have to ask Pearn about Heatley I think. You can listen online at xxx.justagame.ca

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#17 dyckster
June 10 2009, 02:46PM
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@ Madagain:

Thanks! A) I didn't know they were called tildes and B) I didn't know they potentially denoted sarcasm. NOW I get it.

JW, please accept my deepest apologies for making this a way bigger deal than it should have been.

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#18 Ender the Dragon
June 10 2009, 03:00PM
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@ dyckster:

I'm glad you asked. I didn't know about the sarcasm thing either. And that's what Oilersnation is all about, folks; gettin' an edjumication.

~ :) ~

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#19 Librarian Mike
June 10 2009, 03:02PM
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Jonathan. That was an interesting take on Yashin. I didn't realize that he put up such good numbers consistently, especially considering what a disaster the Islanders can be. In some ways, his career mirrors Keith Tkachuk in that both players put up good numbers in the regular season and had a habit of holding teams hostage for more money. I wonder how things would have been different if one time the Jets/Coyotes said to Tkachuk "Screw you. You can sit out this year" instead of giving him a raise.

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#20 Dustin Penner's 2nd Chin
June 10 2009, 03:10PM
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@ dyckster: Oh. I agree!

That's why I made sure to say "WE" when I said, "how crazy we are to jump at scrap pieces of offseason meat". I'm right there with ya buddy.

Pens and Wings going into triple OT in Game 7? Meh. I heard that Manny Maholtra is adding Edmonton to his list of 24 teams that he would consider considering on July 1st! Now THAT's NEWS.

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#21 Ender the Dragon
June 10 2009, 03:15PM
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Jon,

I reviewed your trade proposal; Heatley for Gilbert, O'Sullivan, and Eberle. I don't think Ottawa does that deal. A good point was made by Gregor yesterday about superstars getting traded for spare parts (ie. Pronger, Thornton) and while Ottawa is perhaps a bit up against the wall here, I still think they're looking for a legit superstar coming back the other way. Gilbert isn't in that category yet. I think Ottawa will hold out for the legit 1-2 D-man (like Phaneuf) and they'll get it.

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#22 Jonathan Willis
June 10 2009, 03:18PM
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@ Ender the Dragon:

I don't like Phaneuf, but the Flames would be silly to send him off for Heatley unless Ottawa plans to take Kipper as well.

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#23 RossCreek
June 10 2009, 03:38PM
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Stars fired Date Tippet eh. Interesting. Didn't see that one coming. If the Flames go a non Sutter route, Tippet would be the place to start looking IMO.

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#24 Ender the Dragon
June 10 2009, 03:47PM
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@ Jonathan Willis:

I don't understand your reasoning; in my mind, Heatley for Phaneuf straight up is pretty close to fair value (a spare part or pick from Calgary might be thrown in as needed) and the salary is also pretty close (Heatley=7.5M, Phaneuf=6.625M) so I'm not sure why Calgary would feel the need to package in their starting goaltender unless Sutter fell down and hit his head. I do respect your opinion though, so could you tell me why this makes sense?

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#25 Jonathan Willis
June 10 2009, 04:31PM
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@ Ender the Dragon:

Because I think Phaneuf has higher value than Heatley, and I think Miikka Kiprusoff's contract is a boat anchor.

It won't ever happen, of course.

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#26 Jonathan Willis
June 10 2009, 04:32PM
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And, in other news, Jordan Eberle lags well behind Patrick O'Sullivan in every single offensive category over every season of his junior career. Let's not get too excited about his value.

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#27 The Menace
June 10 2009, 04:43PM
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JW - do you think that Quinn's recent junior Team Canada experiences have anything to do with why the Oilers are so high on Eberle?

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#28 The Menace
June 10 2009, 04:44PM
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What I mean is, do you think he's carrying the torch for Eberle?

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#29 Jonathan Willis
June 10 2009, 04:47PM
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@ The Menace:

I doubt it. Quinn's got a very good idea of the difference in quality between junior and NHL players.

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#30 The Menace
June 10 2009, 04:53PM
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so what do you attribute this to? or is it just JG that thinks the Oil place more value on Sully than Eberle?

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#31 Ender the Dragon
June 10 2009, 04:53PM
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@ Jonathan Willis:

Phaneuf is a good player, but Calgary could find a way to build their defence without him, and I for one would not relish a season facing a Red Menace that ices a top line of Heatley/Jokinen/Iginla. Phaneuf is hard to part with, granted, but that line is good for better than 300 points next season. I think Calgary makes that trade.

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#32 The Menace
June 10 2009, 04:56PM
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@ Ender the Dragon: How many more goals do you think Heater would score versus Cammalleri (39) this year? would he really be that much different than what they iced last year?

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#33 Jonathan Willis
June 10 2009, 05:08PM
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@ The Menace:

I'd hate to speak for Jason, but he's a connected guy so it makes sense to assume that he's heard lots of wonderful things from scouts and people in the employ of the Oilers about Eberle.

Eberle's a fine prospect, don't get me wrong; I just wouldn't come close to rating him above O'Sullivan, a good player who gets underrated because of a less than impressive showing in Edmonton after the trade deadline.

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#34 Ogden Brother
June 10 2009, 05:19PM
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Ender the Dragon wrote:

@ Jonathan Willis: Phaneuf is a good player, but Calgary could find a way to build their defence without him, and I for one would not relish a season facing a Red Menace that ices a top line of Heatley/Jokinen/Iginla. Phaneuf is hard to part with, granted, but that line is good for better than 300 points next season. I think Calgary makes that trade.

Wow, the highest scoring trio in the league this year barely got over 300 points.... and they aren't on the same team.

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#35 Ender the Dragon
June 10 2009, 05:19PM
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@ The Menace:

Jokinen will be the difference. That center playing between two of the best forwards in the game playing their natural sides; scarily deadly.

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#36 Ogden Brother
June 10 2009, 05:20PM
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Ender the Dragon wrote:

@ Jonathan Willis: Phaneuf is a good player, but Calgary could find a way to build their defence without him, and I for one would not relish a season facing a Red Menace that ices a top line of Heatley/Jokinen/Iginla. Phaneuf is hard to part with, granted, but that line is good for better than 300 points next season. I think Calgary makes that trade.

Also their defense would be terrible without Phaneuf... whith no $$$ to address it.

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#37 cm
June 10 2009, 05:24PM
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Ender the Dragon wrote:

@ The Menace: Jokinen will be the difference. That center playing between two of the best forwards in the game playing their natural sides; scarily deadly.

Who's going to feed the puck. Aren't all three of those guys shooters.

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#38 Jonathan Willis
June 10 2009, 05:25PM
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@ Ender the Dragon:

I think you overrate Jokinen; most Flames fans I've talked to prefer Langkow and I don't think they're wrong.

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#39 Robin Brownlee
June 10 2009, 05:28PM
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Ender the Dragon wrote:

@ Jonathan Willis: Phaneuf is a good player, but Calgary could find a way to build their defence without him, and I for one would not relish a season facing a Red Menace that ices a top line of Heatley/Jokinen/Iginla. Phaneuf is hard to part with, granted, but that line is good for better than 300 points next season. I think Calgary makes that trade.

For crying out loud, get a grip. Better than 300 points? Heatley's the only one of the three who has hit 100 points (105 in 06-07 and 103 in 05-06). His past two seasons are 82 and 72. Jarome's hit 90 three times in 12 seasons with a high of 98 in 07-08. Jokinen's made 90 once in 11 seasons with 91 in 06-07 amd has 71 and 57 his last two years.

More like Heatley (80), Jokinen (70) and Iginla (85) for 235.

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#40 Librarian Mike
June 10 2009, 05:30PM
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Ender the Dragon wrote:

Jokinen will be the difference.

Only if the NHL starts awarding points for being funny looking. :)

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#41 RossCreek
June 10 2009, 05:38PM
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As a Flames fan, I don't move Phaneuf for Heatley. Pronger for Shanahan looked good at the time, but St. Louis stole that trade, and there's a chance this one would play out similar. All 3 of those guys are shooters so I can't see it working as a line. Iginla and Jokinen couldn't find much chemistry as it is and now you wanna throw Heatley on it. IMO, I play Jokinen and Iginla on 2 different lines built around each of them. I like Langkow but think Jokinen has more skill. Langkow may have more will though. I'm very interested and excited to see what Olli can do start to finish next season. If I'm Ottawa, I'd take Weber straight up if it was offered. Of course, I'd ask for more 1st.

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#42 Chris
June 10 2009, 06:21PM
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Jonathan Willis wrote:

And, in other news, Jordan Eberle lags well behind Patrick O’Sullivan in every single offensive category over every season of his junior career. Let’s not get too excited about his value.

I was the guy who absolutely LOST IT when MacT played Kotalik with Hemsky instead of O'Sullivan immediately post trade deadline. IMO he was the best option at the time for the Oiler first line L.W. Now I know Sully didn't look that great down the stretch. I also know its a bit of a stretch to call him first line material... But I'm a big fan and believe he's more comparable to Cogliano talent wise than Eberle. O'Sullivan is versitile. He shoots the puck well; and will do so from ANYWHERE. I pitched him as compensation for Heatley along with Gilbert because Murray will probably expect a point producing quality forward as part of the return package. It's a sign of respect.

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#43 ned flanders
June 10 2009, 06:45PM
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Honestly I think that Gilbert/Eberle/O'Sullivan for Heatley is too high a price. Heatley's contract is in your words a bit of a boat anchor for a guy that has underachieved 7.5M for two years. He has also put his GM on the spot much like Pronger did further reducing his value. Heat's very good, but Gilbert is a valuable guy to that team and others (and Edmonton's) trade him and a problem or perceived problem. Say Gilbert/Nillson for Heatley or Gilbert/Penner/Pou for Heatley/Fisher.

If Murray's stupid he'd take Campbell's skating and contract + Versteeg for Heatley.

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#44 BigE57
June 10 2009, 06:47PM
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@ Ender the Dragon: Ender the Dragon wrote:

Phaneuf is hard to part with, granted, but that line is good for better than 300 points next season.

Wow, I think Ogden Brother and Robin Brownlee rebutted this rather well, however, I will ask when was the last time 3 that's three teammates scored 100 points each? That was Lemieux, Francis and Jagr with 429 points. Far better players at their peak in a vastly different NHL. Put down the playstation paddle man.......

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#45 myteammytown
June 10 2009, 07:00PM
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Jonathan Willis wrote:

And, in other news, Jordan Eberle lags well behind Patrick O’Sullivan in every single offensive category over every season of his junior career. Let’s not get too excited about his value.

mike green only had 37 goals combined in 4 years playing junior. he put up 31 this year.

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#46 Jason Gregor
June 10 2009, 07:03PM
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BigE57 wrote:

@ Ender the Dragon: Ender the Dragon wrote: Phaneuf is hard to part with, granted, but that line is good for better than 300 points next season. Wow, I think Ogden Brother and Robin Brownlee rebutted this rather well, however, I will ask when was the last time 3 that’s three teammates scored 100 points each? That was Lemieux, Francis and Jagr with 429 points. Far better players at their peak in a vastly different NHL. Put down the playstation paddle man…….

Triple Crown Line, Dionne, Simmer and Taylor in LA the only line in NHL history to have three linemates with 100 points. It will never happen again, sadly.

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#47 Jonathan Willis
June 10 2009, 07:05PM
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@ myteammytown:

True enough. Projecting prospects is inherently difficult, and there aren't any guarantees.

That said, the best predictor of future performance in these cases is past performance, wouldn't you agree?

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#48 myteammytown
June 10 2009, 07:12PM
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@ Jonathan Willis:

generally, yes, i would agree.

the problem, IMO, with comparing players of such a young age is, there are far to many unknowns to do it was any accuracy. Unless the guy is "cant miss", it is impossible to tell how well a 18 or 19 year old makes the jump to pro.

there are far to many players that have lit it up in junior, but gone on to do SFA in the NHL.

O'Sullivan, for example, has struggled to play with any sort of consistancy in the NHL. Will Eberle be the same way? Will Eberle even make it? who knows

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#49 Jonathan Willis
June 10 2009, 07:33PM
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@ myteammytown:

O'Sullivan doesn't get the credit he deserves, IMO. We were falling all over Nilsson last season and O'Sullivan's so much better that it's almost laughable. Better defensively, and with better offensive results on top of it.

He had a bad 20 games in Edmonton; it's early to write him off.

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#50 BigE57
June 10 2009, 09:29PM
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@ Jason Gregor: Nice, I didn't even think of them and they were all on a line, not like my example which featured just teammates.

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