Pre-Draft Questions that Need Answers

Jason Gregor
June 17 2009 02:48PM

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The anticipation across the NHL and specifically for the fans will increase daily as we are now within ten days of the 2009 NHL entry draft. The scuttlebutt has the Islanders prepared to take Victor Hedman instead of John Tavares, but it’s not a slam dunk.

As we get closer to the draft and the start of free agency the Nation has been asking some great questions. **If you have any questions you want answered email Gregor at jason@justagame.ca.

I’ve read various reports on which Oilers need to clear waivers next year, but none seem right. Which current Oilers have to clear waivers at the start of next season? — Garrett in the Park

Good question, since it's likely the Oilers might have to try and hide a guy in the minors. Rather than list which guys have to clear waivers, I will tell who doesn’t.

Gilbert Brule doesn’t have to clear waivers at the start of the year, but once he plays three NHL games then he would have to.

Rob Schremp, Devon Dubnyk and Liam Reddox don’t have to clear waivers. They have only played three pro years, and have yet to play 160 NHL games, plus they are under 25. I have no idea why anyone would think Reddox needs to clear waivers. If a player has played four years pro, then he has to clear waivers regardless of how many NHL games he has played, or if he is over 25 years of age when the season starts.

Chorney and Peckham don’t have to clear.

Bubble guys that need to clear are Pouliot, MacIntyre, Jacques, Potulny (although I don’t think he has a chance of making team) and Stone.

Who do you think is the best option for the Oilers in goal next year? — Anderson

I still maintain their best option for next year is to sign Roloson to a one-year deal. The problem with that is he is looking for a two-year pact, and the Oilers won’t give him one unless it is worth $1.5 million per season.

Craig Anderson is 28 and Scott Clemmensen is 32, and both had decent years last year. The problem is they’ve only played more than 30 games once. The good thing is that neither can realistically demand more than $1.5 to $1.8 million per season. If the Oilers believe in JDD then signing one of these two to push him and be there if he falters makes loads of sense.

Lots of fans are high on Harding, and feel he is better than Deslauriers due to his AHL numbers and his 50 more NHL games. I don’t see them going with two young, unproven goalies, so if they get Harding they have to trade JDD or basically give up on him and ship him to the minors. I get the sense the organization feels he is ready to take the next step and just needs a shot. I’d give the Harding/JDD combo a look, because the two young guys could push one another. But if Tambellini went with an experienced coaching staff, I’d be stunned if he went with inexperience at such a key position.

I’m not high on Biron or Niittymaki, but they are options.

I want to see what JDD can do. We’ve seen other teams give young goalies a chance and they’ve flourished, so why not him.

Stortini had 25 fights in 53 games last year, which would have put him close to 40 if he played all year. What is the record for most fights in a season? — Stan from the Woods

This question took me all over the place. The Elias Sports Bureau doesn’t even have this record. My go-to-guy at the NHL office is on holidays for three weeks, and the Flyers couldn’t get me a confirmed number on Dave Schultz, who I would think has to be close considering he holds the record for most PIMs in a season with 472.

In 1996/1997 Paul Laus from the Panthers had 39 tilts. Mike Peluso had 35 in 1991/1992 with the Devils. Those are the highest totals in the last 20 years. I know fighting was more common in the 70’s and 80’s, but there were more guys on each team who fought so it isn’t a guarantee that guys were fighting 50 times a year. I’m certain my guy at the NHL office will get the info and then I will relay to you.

Still Paul Laus dropping the flippers 39 times is a hell of a feat. His hands must have looked like hamburger by the end of the year.

I know this is a hockey site, but I’m a big Oiler and Rush fan. Do you know who the Rush will hire as coach and GM? — Steven

Smaller league means they have a smaller pool to pick from so it is easier to get a read on who they will go after. Derek Keenan, coached in Portland last year, former San Jose coach Walt Christensen, Troy Cordingly just coached the Roughnecks to the NLL championship but resigned, and his assistant and former Rock coach Terry Sanderson are the four guys at the top of the list.

There are lots of rumours that Portland will re-locate of even fold, if that happens, then Keenan will be courted heavily by the Rush and the Rock. Keenan, a cousin of Mike Keenan, is from Peterborough, and the Rock would love to have him in Toronto.

Cordingly left Calgary for alleged family reasons, because he wants to be closer to home back east, so maybe he wouldn’t want to come to Edmonton. Christensen is a west coast guy, and Sanderson wants to be a head coach again.

Keenan and Christensen have to be the front runners because they coach and be the GM.

And if Portland folds, Rush fans will be over the moon, because the Rush would have the first pick in the dispersal draft, and they could grab Brodie Merrill. Merrill is the best athlete in the league. He is a defender/transition guy, and not a true offensive stud, yet he still controls both ends of the floor. He is the face of Reebok in all of their lacrosse ads in the States and Canada. He would give the Rush an immediate impact player if indeed Portland folds, which is likely.

Peeters to talk coaching

Pete Peeters will be on my show today at 3:10 to talk about coaching goalies. And if you missed Pat Quinn yesterday go to www.justagame.ca and take a listen.

He stated the Oilers need an identity again. They are in looking for a goalie and he touched on his relationship with the Captain and what he expects from him.

Also Steve Ott from the Dallas Stars today at 3:30, he is always good for a few stories.

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One of Canada's most versatile sports personalities. Jason hosts The Jason Gregor Show, weekdays from 2 to 6 p.m., on TSN 1260, and he writes a column every Monday in the Edmonton Journal. You can follow him on Twitter at twitter.com/JasonGregor
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#51 Jason Gregor
June 18 2009, 09:08AM
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As I said before I misunderstood when it came to SEASON cap and Cap hit...

In this case I have yet to talk to Rick. I asked about games played for Brule and if he needs to clear waivers. I never asked about the signing as an 18 year-old. I'm guessing there is some loop hole that the rules as we read them allows him to bypass it. I spoke suggesting that it could hurt his chances of making the team, because he is a guy who could clear waivers, while guys like Pouliot, Jacques, Brodziak have to.

I don't claim to be the expert on the Cap. So I will wait to see what his explanation is. I have a message out to him.

As for those debating the merits of how I respond to people I will say this.

It is not my job to spend hours on the Internet answering or debating points. I have a full time job and a life that doesn't consist of sitting at the computer hell bent on answering questions or responding to comments.

While the majority of you seem civil, it seems many who are bloggers seem only interested in questioning or pointing out any mistake.

When guys are so lame and lacking in common sense to accuse me of plagiarism when it was clear to anyone who read the article that I never claimed to have come up with minor baseball promotions. I don't feel the need to treat the with any sort of respect. They actually called David Staples and complained, like he is the Czar of the Internet. What was he going to do chastise me on his site? That sort of tattling is childish and clearly shows they either have too much time on their hands or have a personal vendetta.

I have the original email I sent to the editors here at the Nation. When they transferred it to word press the italics and bolding all became the same font accidentally and it wasn't picked up. Our editors do a great job of getting pics, and editing our stuff. Was I supposed to throw them under the bus and jump up and down and claim my innocence? No, it was so obvious that it wasn't plagiarism, except to those who I don't need to name. Giving them any recognition is pointless for me.

I listed off the best ones. I didn't say..."These would be good ideas". And they were bolded.

Certain guys don't like me. I really give two shits about that. There are many MSM guys that I don't really care for, but I don't feel the need to have to email them what I think, because I know they probably don't care.

I read Matheson, Barnes and Jones daily, but do I expect them to read my stuff? Hell no. When they write, do I see them quoting what another guy wrote about and then giving their opinion on it? No.

I have no interest in reading certain bloggers. It is my right to choose who I read. Just like it is your right to choose who you read. If you don't like my stuff don't read it. I don't read certain MSM either. I don't have time to read every article by every writer, but it seems in the blog world that a small group of guys read each other daily, and since I don't that is some sort of slap in their face.

I find it laughable about the bloggers who troll on here just looking to argue or point out things that they think are wrong. Maybe it's jealousy, maybe they don't like me. I truly could care less. Don't read my stuff, it won't offend me, just like it doesn't if MSM guys read my stuff. I don't read an article and then make sure I tell the writer I did.

I know some post on here with the hope that a few readers will click on their BLUE name so maybe they will get more hits. The Nation's numbers show that more people come here than most blogs, so some (not all) come here to try to get traffic to their site.

You don't see me posting on other sites, because I don't feel the need to do it. I don't call into other radio shows. My goal isn't to point out every error I read. I've made mistakes on here and on my show, I don't know any guy who hasn't.

So Speeds, if I came across harsh it's because I lumped you in with others, and while that probably wasn't the right thing to do, I don't have time to separate which guys seem genuine in their comments, and which are just plain asses. I shouldn't lump all bloggers together, because I never lump MSM together, but like in most cases a few bad seeds ruin it for everyone.

I'm waiting for my call back. I hope their is a loop hole that none of us see, otherwise it will be hard to defend an oversight like that from the team.

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#52 The Menace
June 18 2009, 09:36AM
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@ Jason Gregor: well said Gregor.

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#53 Oilman
June 18 2009, 09:38AM
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My theory is that, like the fat chick that hangs out with fatter chicks to make herself feel slim, Kevin Lowe only hired dumb guys, to make himself look smart.....in the short term it got him promoted to VP, but the foresight of such a move and it's implications toward the team were severely lacking:o)

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#54 OvenChicken8
June 18 2009, 09:45AM
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@ Jason Gregor: Your last rant is exactly why I listen to your show. It was honest and a little belligerent and when I hear it on air, that makes for good radio.

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#55 hack the bone
June 18 2009, 09:47AM
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Gregor,

If you are posting something and people are reading it, then they EXPECT it to be correct. Yes. Errors are made, but for those that don't have the time to read through the CBA or other sources, it is in YOUR best interest be corrected (if it's warranted). As far as I can tell it was far from an attack on you. They just wanted clarification and you are working on getting the proper information out there. That's being professional. However, yelling and belittling someone as a response is not.

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#56 BigE57
June 18 2009, 10:02AM
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Jason Gregor wrote:

otherwise it will be hard to defend an oversight like that from the team.

It would be a very discouraging indictment of the Oilers front office if it turns out their "guys" don't know what they are doing.

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#57 Jason Gregor
June 18 2009, 10:29AM
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BigE57 wrote:

Jason Gregor wrote: otherwise it will be hard to defend an oversight like that from the team. It would be a very discouraging indictment of the Oilers front office if it turns out their “guys” don’t know what they are doing.

I'm sure they know what they are doing. I have been told on numerous occasions by many different agents that the CBA is one of the worst written documents ever.

It's written in a way, where guys can almost spin anything to work in their favour if they want to fight it. So while the explanation looks like these guys are eligible, my gut based on past experience, and the fact that it is Rick's job will be that they are correct and for whatever reason Brule's 157 games played is the more important number now. We'll see. I have contacted Brule's agent, because you would think that his camp knows exactly what his status is.

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#58 Robin Brownlee
June 18 2009, 10:32AM
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hack the bone wrote:

Gregor, If you are posting something and people are reading it, then they EXPECT it to be correct. Yes. Errors are made, but for those that don’t have the time to read through the CBA or other sources, it is in YOUR best interest be corrected (if it’s warranted). As far as I can tell it was far from an attack on you. They just wanted clarification and you are working on getting the proper information out there. That’s being professional. However, yelling and belittling someone as a response is not.

Neither is piling on, and that happens way too often around here as the same familiar names roll through in the name of just wanting "clarification."

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#59 Jason Gregor
June 18 2009, 10:36AM
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Oilman wrote:

My theory is that, like the fat chick that hangs out with fatter chicks to make herself feel slim, Kevin Lowe only hired dumb guys, to make himself look smart…..in the short term it got him promoted to VP, but the foresight of such a move and it’s implications toward the team were severely lacking:o)

Pretty dumb theory. Do Tambellini's moves look uneducated? And Lowe isn't VP...He is President of Hockey Operations. Do you know what he does? How is the move short-sighted.

Tambellini is in charge of the Oilers. He takes into account what Lowe, Prendergast, Olcyzk have to say, but ultimately makes the decision. Just like Stu MacGregor will have the FINAL say on who they draft.

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#60 Hockey Gods
June 18 2009, 10:41AM
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hack the bone wrote:

As far as I can tell it was far from an attack on you. They just wanted clarification and you are working on getting the proper information out there.

I disagree with you, I think some of those guys were making personal attacks on Gregor and his ability as a journalist, and trying to engage him in a long-c0ck contest on who knows the CBA better.

speeds I will exemot you from that comment because from your response I believe you were just trying get clarification. But the other bloggers, who jumped on the dogpile, I think were just doing it to inflate their own ego's. If I cared to check their blogs, which I don't, I am sure they are on there bragging abou how they out-smarted Gregor and the Edmonton MSM is a bunch of idiots... blah blah blah.

Hack, I too take Gregors words as correct because his job is to follow sports 40+ hours per week and I have my own full-time that doesn't allow me contact with such great resources. However, I would understand if he were mistaken on this waiver debate. The CBA is written by a bunch lawyers, and Gregor, along with most of us commenters are not lawyers and do not work with the CBA everyday. So if he was wrong that is perfectly understandable; there maybe what, 100 people worldwide who fully understand and know that document and refer to the CBA on a day to day basis? Also I am sure he is working hard right now to clarify the waiver issue.

Jason keep up the good work, you doing a great job here and on your show.

As for the rest of you twits that feel you proved Gregor wrong, it's great you have once again impressed your 30 readers and I am sure pulitzer is in the mail.

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#61 hack the bone
June 18 2009, 10:42AM
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Brownlee,

I agree about the piling on it, but if you go to the start of the thread, only one person asks, Speeds. Gregor immediately attacks, unprovoked. That is not professional. This was the only point I wanted to make.

As for piling on... The thread digresses from there and there are people on both sides, so piling on works both ways

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#62 onehitwonder
June 18 2009, 10:44AM
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hee..hee.....hee. Kinda ironic that Speeds is just about the only blogger without the blue link on here. I also don't really read anywhere else, but justagame and Speeds blog BOTH went up a notch today in my books. Cheers to you both.

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#63 BigE57
June 18 2009, 10:50AM
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Jason Gregor wrote:

and for whatever reason Brule’s 157 games played is the more important number now. We’ll see. I have contacted Brule’s agent, because you would think that his camp knows exactly what his status is.

It seems to me that we heard that very scenario regarding late season call ups and Brule at the end of this past season, that playing three more games would push him into a position where he would need to clear waivers and the Oilers would have to jump through the hoops as though he were on a one way deal.

I'm not trying to say they don't know what they are doing, just pondering how bad it would be if that were true.

With regard to the CBA, I can't imagine the amount of review the teams must go through to make sure everything is in line, perhaps the Oilers and other NHL clubs should contact some of the bloggers as they seem to have it down to the letter.

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#64 Robin Brownlee
June 18 2009, 10:56AM
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hack the bone wrote:

Gregor immediately attacks, unprovoked. That is not professional. This was the only point I wanted to make.

Depends what you consider provocation. Any possibility having the same need for "clarification" and other criticisms and barbs rolled out X-number of times over the course or a year or years when you post regular items could make a person less patient with a response when it looks like more of the same old, same old?

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#65 Travis Dakin
June 18 2009, 10:58AM
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I just can't wait to see who has to appologize to whom when the agent or Olzcyk clears it up. My money is on the guy who actually spoke to the man in charge of managing the cap. But I've been wrong man many times before. ha.

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#66 Yakman
June 18 2009, 11:13AM
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I really hope jerks don't give Brownlee and Gregor such a hard time that they leave this site... I really enjoy their insight... I find it very annoying how people expect them to be perfect all the time and get upset when they act like human beings... I'm a teacher so I know a little bit about how that feels...

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#67 scorecoff hemmercules
June 18 2009, 11:19AM
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Yakman wrote:

I really hope jerks don’t give Brownlee and Gregor such a hard time that they leave this site… I really enjoy their insight… I find it very annoying how people expect them to be perfect all the time and get upset when they act like human beings… I’m a teacher so I know a little bit about how that feels…

I agree, but I don't think some blogger will push them over the edge to the point they leave the Nation (hope not anyway).

In other news, I heard Kotalik is wanting to stay but hasn't even spoken at all with Tambo about a contract. Also, with Biron asking for so much money I guess Tambo isn't interested in him at all. I think Roli will be in net next season.

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#68 Jason Gregor
June 18 2009, 11:20AM
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Yakman wrote:

I really hope jerks don’t give Brownlee and Gregor such a hard time that they leave this site… I really enjoy their insight… I find it very annoying how people expect them to be perfect all the time and get upset when they act like human beings… I’m a teacher so I know a little bit about how that feels…

Trust me that won't happen. I can take questioning anytime. Some of it is good, some laughable so it is a good mix. My skin is not that thin as my hairline used to be so trust me I'll be here until me and Wanye end up in a Billy Martin/Steinbrenner type of brawl...

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#69 Oilman
June 18 2009, 11:26AM
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Jason Gregor wrote:

Oilman wrote: My theory is that, like the fat chick that hangs out with fatter chicks to make herself feel slim, Kevin Lowe only hired dumb guys, to make himself look smart…..in the short term it got him promoted to VP, but the foresight of such a move and it’s implications toward the team were severely lacking:o) Pretty dumb theory. Do Tambellini’s moves look uneducated? And Lowe isn’t VP…He is President of Hockey Operations. Do you know what he does? How is the move short-sighted. Tambellini is in charge of the Oilers. He takes into account what Lowe, Prendergast, Olcyzk have to say, but ultimately makes the decision. Just like Stu MacGregor will have the FINAL say on who they draft.

Did Gregor read my post...Yes. Did Gregor realize it was a joke...No. Am I doing an impression of Greger as I type....Yes:o)

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#70 Jason Gregor
June 18 2009, 11:26AM
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scorecoff hemmercules wrote:

In other news, I heard Kotalik is wanting to stay but hasn’t even spoken at all with Tambo about a contract. Also, with Biron asking for so much money I guess Tambo isn’t interested in him at all. I think Roli will be in net next season.

What is interesting about the alleged reports of what guys are asking for is that many people in the hockey world think the big offers will be limited to a few special players...Gaborik..J-Bo...Hossa...

A guy like Biron who hasn't won much or been consistent for a few years is dreaming if he thinks he'll get a big ticket.

Many agents have even hinted that they expect a drop in middle range guys...Of course none want to say that on the record...hahaha

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#71 Jason Gregor
June 18 2009, 11:28AM
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Oilman wrote:

Did Gregor read my post…Yes. Did Gregor realize it was a joke…No. Am I doing an impression of Greger as I type….Yes:o)

Sorry man...I'm not up on the o) meaning a joke...I just got what the sarcasm symbol was...I really think someone should make a post about what the symbols mean...it would make it much more clear...And good impression... o)

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#72 TK10
June 18 2009, 11:34AM
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Robin: In my view Gregor's shout "YOU ARE WRONG" which is a categorical and unqualified statement had a great deal to do with the kerfuffle. I don't believe you make such statements in your writing. I also opine that many Oiler fans who listen to 1260 don't particularly like it when Mr. G hangs up on them and then says "Give your head a shake". I hate it when he does that. It smacks of superiority and closemindedness. Stauffer never did stuff like that. Anyway, nice to see you stick up for Mr. G. I'm sure he doesn't have the easiest job in town. BTW when will we find out who's "right"? If you get 10 lawyers to interpret a complex convoluted document, then you'll get 10 different opinions (or more).

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#73 onehitwonder
June 18 2009, 11:41AM
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Yakman wrote:

I really hope jerks don’t give Brownlee and Gregor such a hard time that they leave this site… I really enjoy their insight… I find it very annoying how people expect them to be perfect all the time and get upset when they act like human beings… I’m a teacher so I know a little bit about how that feels…

Are you sitting up at the front of the class right now on the laptop "planning for next year". The kids think you're talking about Chem 30, but you actually mean the 09/10 Oilers lineup. **winks**

"Hey teacher... remember back in grade 9 a few years ago when you told us we were going on a field trip? And we went to Prongers house and threw stink bombs down the chimney? How did you know right away he demanded a trade?"

**winks** Now we know.

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#74 Chris.
June 18 2009, 12:05PM
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Jason Gregor wrote:

I’m sure they know what they are doing.

I'd like to think they do....

But after all they hired a head coach who seems to think Hemsky plays center. TWICE he made that slip on Tencer's show (The first time I thought he merely miss-spoke)

I realize Quinn is new and everything... but it takes two seconds to pull up the depth chart online... Do you think that might have been a good idea to do that before making comments on the radio?

Is Tencer's failure to correct Quinn that much differnt than the Toronto MSM not asking Burke about his involment in the Pronger deal yesterday?

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#75 scorecoff hemmercules
June 18 2009, 12:06PM
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@ Jason Gregor:

Thanks for the reply, I get tired of all this "I'm right" "No, I'm right" talk. The cba is confusing as hell for anyone, I try to just stay out of it. I also think Biron is crazy if he wants that much, he will either get it from some foolish team (hello colorado!)or he will realise he needs to drop his price about 2 million to get interest.

I have a feeling Kotaik is heading to the market. I'm not so sure a decent run for him after the trade deadline last season warrants a pay raise for him. Thank go Lowe isn't signing contracts or he would have been signed at 4 million per year already.

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#76 Phil
June 18 2009, 12:11PM
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Oilogosphere = biggest geek squad on the internet, except for OilersNation.

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#77 Chris.
June 18 2009, 12:17PM
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@ Jason Gregor.:

Any news on SMID? If one of the top four d-men are moved Smid needs to be here to either play those minutes, or be available for top four duty in the event of injury.

The fact that he was rumored to be seeking a trade, combined with the complete silence from Oilers managemnt regarding all things SMID; has me concerned.

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#78 Travis Dakin
June 18 2009, 12:21PM
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@ Chris.: check out David Staples thread over at CULT OF HOCKEY from a couple of days ago. There is an article about Smid in there. He sounds like he is excited about the chance to start fresh here.

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#79 Ogden Brother
June 18 2009, 12:36PM
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Chris. wrote:

Jason Gregor wrote: I’m sure they know what they are doing. I’d like to think they do…. But after all they hired a head coach who seems to think Hemsky plays center. TWICE he made that slip on Tencer’s show (The first time I thought he merely miss-spoke) I realize Quinn is new and everything… but it takes two seconds to pull up the depth chart online… Do you think that might have been a good idea to do that before making comments on the radio? Is Tencer’s failure to correct Quinn that much differnt than the Toronto MSM not asking Burke about his involment in the Pronger deal yesterday?

Haha, I love that Quinn did that, he'll get a nice long leash from Oil fans, but when they turn on him....

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#80 Chris.
June 18 2009, 12:49PM
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@ Ogden Brother:

This incident nicely illustrates the ~HUGE~ footprint Hemsky has left in the hockey world...

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#81 Chris.
June 18 2009, 12:57PM
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@ Travis Dakin:

Thanks. IMO if Quinn wants more "tenacity" on the back-end, Smid is an available and affordable option... It's funny how many fans/HF Board bloggers are ready to write off a guy like Smid while at the same time projecting Chorney/Peckham to take major steps forward...

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#82 OvenChicken8
June 18 2009, 01:46PM
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TK10 wrote:

I also opine that many Oiler fans who listen to 1260 don’t particularly like it when Mr. G hangs up on them and then says “Give your head a shake”. I hate it when he does that. It smacks of superiority and closemindedness.

Really? I like when he tells callers to give their head a shake, because some of the callers need to get their heads out of the clouds.

Honestly I don't agree with everything Gregor says, but the fact that he doesn't put up with those callers bs and will stick up for his opinion makes me respect what he has to say.

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#83 TV
June 18 2009, 02:32PM
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I'm the 1st person to admit that I suck at the math thing, but I think this whole scenario might come down to just a calender year issue..?

Brule has the odd distinction of being a New Years Baby who was born on Jan 1st 1987. So, if I'm doing my math correctly, then he signed his ELC SPC when he was officially 19yrs old & did not play in his 11+ season till he was 20yrs old. (calender wise)

CBA excerpt... = For purposes of Regular Waivers and Re-Entry Waivers, the six (6) year exemption for an 18 year old goalie and the five (5) year exemption for a 19 year old goalie shall both be reduced to four (4) years commencing the first season that the 18 or 19 year old goalie plays in eleven (11) NHL Games or more. The next three (3) seasons, regardless of whether the goalie plays any NHL Games in any of those three (3) seasons, shall count as the next three (3) years toward satisfying the exemption.

Note: 1. For purposes of this Article, a "year" of exemption shall mean a playing season.

2. For purposes of this Article, "age 18" means a Player reaching his eighteenth birthday between January 1 next preceding the Entry Draft and September 15 next following the Entry Draft, both dates included; "age 19" means a Player reaching his nineteenth birthday in the calendar year of the Entry Draft; "age 20" means a Player reaching his twentieth birthday in the calendar year of the Entry Draft; and "age 21" means a Player reaching his twenty-first birthday in the calendar year of the Entry Draft.

=

So, as per the above, I think that puts Brule back into the under 160 games scenario & gives him a 1 more year or 3 more NHL games (whichever comes 1st) of waiver exempt status.

Gregor is correct, the CBA's (while tight as a drum)wordings & definitions can be a very tough cryptogram to hack through, even with some of it's most basic info, so when it's left up to interpretations only, that is where misunderstansings, mistakes & miscalculations happen.

DAMN CBA !!! !!!

x6

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#84 Tyler
June 18 2009, 02:35PM
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Robin Brownlee wrote:

Depends what you consider provocation. Any possibility having the same need for “clarification” and other criticisms and barbs rolled out X-number of times over the course or a year or years when you post regular items could make a person less patient with a response when it looks like more of the same old, same old?

I think that you're projecting Robin. Most of the bloggers who pointed out that the CBA seems to match speeds' explanation (which seems to be, um, me) virtually never respond to Gregor's posts. I bet I've responded to three of them all year - the one where it looked like plagiarism (he still only partially understands the problem, BTW), the one in which he demonstrated his ignorance of the salary cap, acted like a dick, insisted he was right and now admits he was wrong and now this instance.

You have, by the way, never defended the plagiarism thing, presumably because, even accepting his explanation, that piece still had problems that he doesn't understand. Jason's a big boy and you're under no obligation to defend him but it seems to me that your position here is that he should be free to be aggressively wrong, free of the possibility that someone will make it clear to him what the problem with his reasoning/lifting of someone else's research is/understanding of the CBA is? If so, fair enough, but he'd probably do better doing it somewhere without a comment box.

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#85 Tyler
June 18 2009, 02:38PM
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Brule has the odd distinction of being a New Years Baby who was born on Jan 1st 1987. So, if I’m doing my math correctly, then he signed his ELC SPC when he was officially 19yrs old & did not play in his 11+ season till he was 20yrs old. (calender wise)

Yeah, I wondered about this when I looked at it last night, but Brule signed a contract before the 05-06 season. Generally speaking, age in the CBA refers to age as of Sept. 15 or June 30...those seem to be the most common dates. No matter how you slice it, it seems he was 18 when he signed and he played more than 11 games in a season before turning 19.

Gregor is correct, the CBA’s (while tight as a drum)wordings & definitions can be a very tough cryptogram to hack through, even with some of it’s most basic info, so when it’s left up to interpretations only, that is where misunderstansings, mistakes & miscalculations happen.

I read a lot of legal stuff. Believe it or not, I don't think that it's that bad, with the exception of the revenue sharing section, which I'd probably need a flowchart to get through.

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#86 Antony Ta
June 18 2009, 02:56PM
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sillybilly wrote:

Am i the only one who finds this funny? A whole bunch of guys, who by day, probably do nothing more then jump to the pump for you, are trying to sort through the CBA and prove the “expert”, who works for an NHL team, wrong…. ahhh, the sweet dark days of summer in an NHL city…

Authority does not translate completely into expertise.

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#87 TV
June 18 2009, 03:03PM
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I did think that Brule was signed after his calender year B-day wise & played in the last part of the 06' season only & not in the early part of the 05' season. (as his 05/06' game log cleary shows me)

So it looks like that idea may be out the window then as well..?

x6

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#88 Jason Gregor
June 18 2009, 03:54PM
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This issue isn't as clear as the CBA says, based on the fact that even Brule's camp needs to look into it more. They have come across something in the CBA that they feel needs to be addressed with the NHLPA.

I spoke to another asst GM who is a capologist, and when I presented this exact case he wasn't exactly sure. At first he thought Brule has one year left, but will double check.

So clearly the CBA isn't as cut and dry and many I speak with seem to think there are many "loop holes" to look at.

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#89 Jason Gregor
June 18 2009, 03:58PM
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Brownlee just broke on air that Daum will be hired as head coach in Springfield. Expect announcement possibly later today or tomorrow.

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#90 speeds
June 18 2009, 04:18PM
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TV and Gregor:

The definition of "age" in this section is confusing, it is the least comprehensible part of the CBA I have come across (I haven't read the whole thing, there could be other equally challenging sections). It is possible that understanding that definition is the source of the difference of opinions here. It will be interesting to hear what everyone has to say.

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#91 kingsblade
June 18 2009, 05:00PM
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On the subject of Brule:

First I would like to thank you jerks for forcing me to spend the last 2 hours looking at the #$@%@$%^@ CBA. I really didn't need to waste that much time at the office.

Second, does anyone else find it interesting that in the examples describing how to apply waiver exemptions they word it to say:

An 18 year old drafted in the '05 Entry Draft who does not sign an SPC until July 2006 at the age of 19, and plays eleven (11) NHL Games in the 2006-07 season, will be exempt as follows:

It might be meaningless, but I find myself wondering why they would provide that specific example rather than just use an example of an 18 year old draftee who did not play the requisite 11 games until 06-07.

I haven't figured out if it actually provides any meaning or was just sloppy drafting. In theory there should be a reason for the usage, but the wording of rest of the document does not justify the hope that such a reason exists.

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#92 kingsblade
June 18 2009, 05:07PM
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speeds wrote:

TV and Gregor: The definition of “age” in this section is confusing, it is the least comprehensible part of the CBA I have come across (I haven’t read the whole thing, there could be other equally challenging sections). It is possible that understanding that definition is the source of the difference of opinions here. It will be interesting to hear what everyone has to say.

Age as per section 13 should work like this:

2005 draft: If you turn 18 between Jan 1, 2005 and sept 15, 2005 then you are considered 18. If you turn 19-21 during any 2005 date then you are the age you just turned during 2005, whether it occurred before or after the draft.

Brule is pretty clearly considered an 18yr old draftee since a day earlier and he would have been considered just 17.

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#93 speeds
June 18 2009, 05:37PM
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Listening to your show Gregor, thanks for looking into it and thanks for passing along what Olczyk said, even though I don't understand what he was apparently saying.

He is right that once a player has cleared waivers and been recalled, he doesn't necessarily have to clear waivers to be sent back down unless he meets certain conditions - based onthe waiver clock starts again for players once they have cleared, but Brule was exempt from waivers when sent down last year; from what I read in the media at the time that was the whole reason they were able to send him to the AHL - they wouldn't have risked sending him to the AHL if he'd have had to go through waivers.

Why would the Oilers have waived Brule this past season if they didn't have to? If that happened, it seems strange that we'd never have heard about it at the time. And was Brule really so poorly thought of around the league that he went through waivers unclaimed?

Interesting explanation, it doesn't sound right to me or seem to cover Brule's situation. It would be great to have Olczyk on some time and hear him talk about those sorts of things.

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#94 Jason Gregor
June 18 2009, 05:37PM
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As usual Rick Olcyzk found some time to get back to us.

For Brule he in fact cleared waivers once before, so because of that it is his GP that comes into play now.

Rick called me just as I was returning on air, so I couldn't get into the other players, but when he returns from Vegas we will.

I never knew that Brule cleared waivers before, and we didn't have time to get into the exact specifics, but that was the explanation Rick gave us. So He was correct the entire time which shouldn't surprise anyone.

Going forward I think Rick will be one of the two or three most important people in the entire organization. Knowing every element of the CBA is a must, especially with the CAP projected to go down in 2010/2011. His ability to know every possible angle to save money and move players up and down will be arguably the most important factor for on ice success, because getting the best for their buck is a must when the CAP goes down.

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#95 speeds
June 18 2009, 06:05PM
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kingsblade:

If he were a day older, he'd be considered a year younger?

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#96 Jason Gregor
June 18 2009, 06:16PM
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kingsblade wrote:

First I would like to thank you jerks for forcing me to spend the last 2 hours looking at the #$@%@$%^@ CBA. I really didn’t need to waste that much time at the office.

Bang on man. I've re-read some paragraphs three times and I still come away uncertain of the exact meaning. That is why I call Rick. Thankfully he is patient enough to put up with my questions.

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#97 kingsblade
June 18 2009, 09:18PM
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speeds wrote:

kingsblade: If he were a day older, he’d be considered a year younger?

Yeah I realized the stupidity of that comment after I hit the post button. I wasn't thinking. My only excuse is that I had some mortgage documents due 7 minutes before I said it and maybe I was distracted. I wasn't kidding when I said I was annoyed that I spent soo much time reading the CBA since I should have finished those documents at about 2:30.

The opposite of what I said is in fact correct lol. One day sooner and he'd have been considered 19.

The explanation I gave on ages is accurate, just the odd comment at the end is wrong.

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#98 kingsblade
June 18 2009, 09:20PM
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@ speeds: It's even more embarrassing than you know because reading and writing crap like that is part of what I do for a living.

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#99 Archaeologuy
June 18 2009, 09:35PM
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Reading the comments that have come up since i went to work the only comment I have to make is that some people need to re-consider how "professional" a blog needs to be. Then when that re-consideration has been undertaken they should then have a beer and relax. Mistakes happen, its interactive, its informal, its a friggin blog. Read a newspaper, if you cant find 5 mistakes on the 1st page you arent looking hard enough. Read the Sun. You shouldnt need to go past the lead article.

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#100 Mike
June 19 2009, 12:00AM
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Since Tyler always wants to point out mistakes or rip Gregor and Brownlee I find it interesting how he doesn't admit Gregor/RO was correct here...I'm just saying.

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