Deep Thoughts X: Cold showers and moving up on draft day

Robin Brownlee
June 04 2009 01:25PM

[caption id="attachment_9812" align="aligncenter" width="480" caption="What will Tambellini try and swing on draft day?"]tambellini[/caption]

When it comes to moving up in the Entry Draft, the Edmonton Oilers have had less luck than Wanye Gretz trying to convince the hottest girl -- any girl -- in high school to give him her phone number. In other words, no sniff.

As desperate and sad as that is, chances are the Oilers will be pitching to move up from the 10th pick in Montreal. Of course, that's an obligatory angle with this outfit.

-- In 2003, GM Kevin Lowe tried to move up from the 17th pick with an eye to getting a shot at one of a trio of defencemen: Ryan Suter, Braydon Coburn or Dion Phaneuf. No cigar. He ended up moving down to 22nd and taking Marc Pouliot.

-- In 2002, Lowe offered Mike Grier and a swap of picks to move into the top four because he wanted Joni Pitkanen. Again, no dice. Lowe ended up picking 15th and calling the name of the immortal Jesse Niinimaki, who is now running a hair-dressing salon in Amsterdam.

-- Perhaps the Oilers biggest push came back in 1988, when Glen Sather did everything he could to make a deal with St. Louis to get the ninth pick and take Teemu Selanne. No sale. The Blues kept the pick and took Rod Brind 'Amour. Winnipeg took The Finnish Flash 10th.

The Oilers ended up with towering but utterly immobile defenceman Francois (Two Left Feet) Leroux, who played 11 games in Edmonton silks. Talk about the difference between bagging the math class hottie and ending up with Mrs. Palmer and her five daughters.

But I digress . . .

This time around

The consensus -- if you can call it that considering the amount of variation between team lists and rankings by NHL Central Scouting and other outlets -- is there's three tiers in the top 10 picks at this year's picking of pimply faced talent.

The first tier is John Tavares, Victor Hedman, Matt Duchene and Evander Kane. The second includes Brayden Schenn, Magnus Paajarvi-Svensson, Scott Glennie and, arguably, Jared Cowan. The third tier begins with the likes of Zack Kassian, Jordan Schroeder and John Moore.

While the Oilers, it goes without saying, would love to move into a top-four spot, it's more realistic to think they might land a pick in spots five through eight if they can find a trading partner willing to swap, say, fifth or sixth spot for 10th and a roster player.

The Oilers would be happy to get Schenn, Paajarvi-Svensson, Glennie or Cowan. The question is, what would moving four or five spots cost? Depends on the team on the other end of the conversation with GM Steve Tambellini.

If the Oilers can't move up, don't be surprised if they take Kassian at 10th or even move down and take a long look at Ryan Ellis.

Hey, tough guy

I don't know what it is about tough guys, but Zack Stortini has taken over where Georges Laraque left off as the Oilers unofficial good will ambassador in the community.

If there's an event around Edmonton, be it a golf tournament, a visit to a school or any manner of charity function, you're likely to see Stortini at it, shaking hands, signing autographs and posing for pictures.

Just as Gentleman Georges was and is famous for, Stortini has the heaviest calendar of any Oiler, by a long shot, when it comes to public appearances in town. He's the epitome of the tough guy with a heart of gold.

I had a good, long chat with Stortini at TEAM 1260's golf tournament at The Ranch Tuesday, a talk that was interrupted by him posing for pictures, including a grip-and-grin with guys from my foursome, at least five times in 20 minutes.

What fans, and I, admire about Stortini is he's likely the most down-to-earth NHL athlete you'll ever meet. No pretence. No "look at me." A lot of NHLers who think they're a big deal could learn a thing or two from Zack.

Same goes for Steve MacIntyre.

At random

-- Dwayne Roloson repeated his belief he can play another four or five years in an interview he did with Jim Matheson of The Journal this week, and maybe that's true, but it won't be in Edmonton.

As much as I admire Roloson's compete level, and it's ridiculously high, the Oilers will be making a huge mistake if they sign him to more than a one-year deal. Do you think Tambellini really wants to be locked into two years 20 games into next season if Jeff Deslauriers has shown he can carry the mail? Or if he can acquire a Josh Harding or Scott Clemmensen? Well, no, and that's why talks on a new contract haven't begun.

With Ray Emery reportedly destined for Philadelphia -- speaking of "look at me" and dickishness in general -- Roloson doesn't have a lot of options for a multi-year deal. If I'm Tambellini, it's one-or-done for Roli.

-- Ran into former Oiler Sean Brown Tuesday. He's heading back to Europe for a fifth straight season.

While Brown is good enough and more than tough enough to play in the NHL somewhere, the combination of a car, an apartment, a good salary and a 52-game schedule has him on his way back to Austria.

Just saying

-- Could Marc Crawford end up back behind the bench in Colorado? I can only hope. There's a heaping helping of humble pie waiting to be jammed down Crow's gullet. Go for it, Marc, and take Dan Cloutier with you. The over-under is 34 wins.

-- Mats Sundin? Please. For the love of God, common sense and salary cap space, let's not start thinking about the Big Swede in Edmonton silks just because he has ties to Pat Quinn. Sundin's in my NCFOM File with Jaromir Jagr. With the salary cap likely to be in the high-40s in 2010-11, find a pay day someplace else, gents.

-- Scott Hartnell? Ryane Clowe? That's money better spent.

-- Listen to Robin Brownlee every Thursday from 4 to 6 p.m. on Just A Game with Jason Gregor on TEAM 1260.

Aceb4a1816f5fa09879a023b07d1a9b4
A sports writer since 1983, including stints at The Edmonton Journal and The Sun 1989-2007, I happily co-host the Jason Gregor Show on TSN 1260 twice a week and write when so inclined. Have the best damn lawn on the internet. Most important, I am Sam's dad. Follow me on Twitter at Robin_Brownlee. Or don't.
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#51 Robin Brownlee
June 04 2009, 09:00PM
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Austin Ayala wrote:

Oilers & Islanders have trading history under Garth Snow’s tenure. A relationship is already built there… So I can see the Oilers feverishly trying to convince (ok… coerce) Snow into a trade that will cripple them for the next 2 generations. Cogliano + Gilbert + 10th for #1. Lol oh wow.

You're looking for kickmeintheface@Imanasshole.com

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#52 jenga
June 04 2009, 09:02PM
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In defence of Robin B, his words were "The third tier begins with the likes of Zack Kassian, Jordan Schroeder and John Moore"

"The likes of" is not the same as "Oil are picking at Kassian at 10.

The draft gets pretty subjective after the first 7 or 8.

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#53 Robin Brownlee
June 04 2009, 09:49PM
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@ jenga: Thanks, but no need for a defence, although I could have said the third tier "includes" instead of "begins with."

A lot of fans have a notion that you can take a CS or ISS list, factor in the needs of a team and then make a reasonable deduction who Team X will draft. It's not as simple as that for reasons that should be obvious.

The fact is, Calgary's top 10 list is different from Edmonton's and Edmonton's is different than Vancouver's etc etc. Often, we'll say a team has "gone off the board" because they take somebody well ahead or where CS, ISS or even TSN ranks them, but who is to say "the board" is right? Teams and their scouts can see any given player distinctly different ways even though they are seen roughly the same number of times by each team. Maybe it's because they get information nobody else has, whatever. There is no master list that every team goes by.

All you can do is talk to scouts, GMs etc and piece things together. In rare cases, maybe a scout tips you off and says, "We're taking this guy if he's there at 10 no matter who else is available," but that's rare.

This isn't a mock draft at the local pub for $100 and bragging rights, but some people treat it as such.

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#54 Harlie
June 04 2009, 09:55PM
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May I introduce you to Professor Mark Messier!

http://physics.indiana.edu/~messier/Professor%20Mark%20Messier.html

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#55 Ogden Brother
June 04 2009, 10:11PM
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Archaeologuy wrote:

Chris wrote: Who is this magic player who is more talented than Vinny; puts up better numbers, costs less, and is rumored to be available? I wouldnt have a problem with Lecavalier if there was no Cap or if he was signed for less money at less term. I dont just look at how “good” players are, i try to look at what their contract would do in the Oilers’ situation. I also agree with Ogden Bro who noted that 3 good young guys is probably an overpay. Even Gilbert, Osull, and a prospect would be less painfull value wise. However, Vinny’s contract HAS to be a huge deterent that cant be overlooked. It is a monster of an overpay and the Cap will be coming down over the next 2 years. It will be Capageddon and Whoever is saddled with Vinny’s contract will be screwed. And for the record it isnt that hard to find better players at less money than Lecavalier.

Ah but those better players at less $$ likely aren't available ;)

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#56 Archaeologuy
June 04 2009, 10:17PM
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@ Ogden Brother: If you're hungry for steak, but the only meat available is green and smells funny, it's best not to give in to your hunger and gamble your life away.

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#57 David S
June 05 2009, 12:08AM
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Robin Brownlee wrote:

This isn’t a mock draft at the local pub for $100 and bragging rights, but some people treat it as such.

"Some"?

You'd swear we were drafting for a superstar that's going to start next fall. Stu Macgregor on Jason's interview was saying that it's 2-5 years before a decent pick MIGHT play in the show. With odds like that it amazes me how much talk is going on about what is essentially a crap shoot at best. Some guys are sounding like if we play it right, we'll be trading our butts off to draft the next 99 next month. And he'll be a difference maker right away. Sheesh!

As far as Zack goes, besides being a really decent guy I think people like that he doesn't take one second of his ice time as anything less than something to cherish. He's working his tail off and making big improvements while not making a big deal about it. Totally impresses me as the type of player we need WAY more of.

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#58 RossCreek
June 05 2009, 05:50AM
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I've been one of those laughing and making fun of "huggy bear" since the beginning, but I'd like to say this: it wasn't his fault that he was thrown into the lineup maybe before he was ready, but he has continually made the most of it. The guy works his ace off and has shown definate improvement in his overall game. He's still nothing fancy, but you gotta admire a guy that puts in the effort he does and works his bag off the way he does. Just goes to show the difference hard work can make for a non skill guy compared to what a lack of hard work can do for a skill guy (schremp, Bonsignore, etc). It doesn't hurt when the coach has your back, but its a lot easier for the coach to have your back if you're busting your balls.

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#59 Robin Brownlee
June 05 2009, 07:41AM
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@ RossCreek: You're right. I made the mistake of jumping on Zack at times early during his first season here and I should have known better because I know the job description well. A number of veterans set me straight on Zack's commitment to improvement and his absolute joy at being an NHL player. "Just watch. Give him a chance," they said. They were right and I was way off.

Obviously, being a good guy and working hard doesn't make up for everything if you're not getting the job done as a player, but Zack's not in that category. He's very good at the role he's asked to play. I'd have him on my team any day.

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#60 speeds
June 05 2009, 08:30AM
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David S wrote:

“Some”? You’d swear we were drafting for a superstar that’s going to start next fall. Stu Macgregor on Jason’s interview was saying that it’s 2-5 years before a decent pick MIGHT play in the show. With odds like that it amazes me how much talk is going on about what is essentially a crap shoot at best.

MacGregor is underplaying when a 10th overall pick should be ready for the NHL, but 2-5 years is a pretty fair expectation for the rest of EDM's picks.

At 10 OV EDM is likely to be getting a player who is ready for the NHL (in some capacity) by 20, in particular if the player is a F. If a D or G, you expect that it might take a bit longer. But if you're 10th overall pick isn't ready for the NHL 2 years after the draft, he is behind schedule. Not to say that he's a necessarily a bust, but not where you expected him to be when drafted. There would be some exceptions, in terms of expectations, but I don't think they'd be terribly common.

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#61 Chris
June 05 2009, 08:56AM
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Archaeologuy wrote:

And for the record it isnt that hard to find better players at less money than Lecavalier.

How about some names.

The only reason Tampa may be shopping Vinny is because of that PROHIBATIVE contract. Many of us here in hypothetical city would do Esa's deal anyway. Others wouldn't. The point is, there is no perfect scenario to be had. Trading quality assets for a high end player near the end of his contract is too big a risk IMO. Trading for a star player under a reasonable contract will probably cost you players like Hemsky or Gagner. Vinny's numbers may continue to fall; or being in a hockey market may reinvigorate him, either way he could be the KEY to maximizing Hemsky's potential. It is time to make a decision: either find a skill player to skate with Hemsky, or trade Hemsky for a first line forward witha more complete game. We already know having just 1/3 of a finesse first line doesn't really work.

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#62 Chris
June 05 2009, 09:14AM
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@ Ogden Brother:

There are people in Vancouver who strongly feel it would be wise to move Luongo before the deadline rather than pay his expected salary. There are people who have theorized that the Capitals will never win the cup, thanks to Ovechkin's huge contract eating up too much cap space for the team to sign complementary players. Five years from now LeCavalier's contract may be an albatross... but damn it: As a season ticket holder, it would be nice to go to the rink and watch a player like him play... Besides, it takes special players to win you the cup. (Pronger 06), (Gretz, Mess, etc 80s)... Crosby, Malkin, Zetterberg, Today. Who would miss Gilbert and Cogliano when Lecavalier skates out to take the draw on his first Oiler powerplay?

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#63 Archaeologuy
June 05 2009, 09:21AM
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Chris wrote:

Archaeologuy wrote: And for the record it isnt that hard to find better players at less money than Lecavalier. How about some names.

Getzlaf, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Iginla, Savard, St Loius, Heatly, Spezza, Staal, the Sedins...all better, all cheaper.

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#64 Chris
June 05 2009, 09:21AM
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@ Robin Brownlee:

Do you get the sence that the Oilers may also be looking at moving down in the draft? If there is a drop off at 9 anyway, and a similar player may be available at 11-14, could the Oilers do a deal to improve the team today? Maybe Josh Harding can be had out of Minnesota for a swap in picks... Any thoughts?

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#65 Archaeologuy
June 05 2009, 09:22AM
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Chris wrote:

As a season ticket holder, it would be nice to go to the rink and watch a player like him play…

I hear you, but I direct you back to my previous statement.

Archaeologuy wrote:

If you’re hungry for steak, but the only meat available is green and smells funny, it’s best not to give in to your hunger and gamble your life away.
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#66 Chris
June 05 2009, 09:29AM
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@ Archaeologuy:

Getzlaf. Not available. Datsyuk. Not available. Zetterburg. Not available. Iginla. Not available. (Would you put Hemmer on line 2?) Savard (Interesting Possibility...but likly not available) Heatly/Spezza. One may be available. Both are similarly expensive to LeCavalier though for shorter terms. The health of the Ottawa franchise is more secure... so they would want real quality assets in return for a trade, not just money savings. Staal. Not avilable AND MORE EXPENSIVE. Sedins/St Louis. Better? NO. They aren't. The Sedins are available, but I'd hate to have to kill myself if we signed them.

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#67 Robin Brownlee
June 05 2009, 09:35AM
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speeds wrote:

At 10 OV EDM is likely to be getting a player who is ready for the NHL (in some capacity) by 20, in particular if the player is a F. If a D or G, you expect that it might take a bit longer. But if you’re 10th overall pick isn’t ready for the NHL 2 years after the draft, he is behind schedule. Not to say that he’s a necessarily a bust, but not where you expected him to be when drafted.

You're absolutely right when it comes to top 10 picks and the numbers from the last five drafts bear that out. Of the top 10 players (all positions) picked in 2008, seven have already played in the NHL. From 2007, it's five of 10. From 2006, 2005 and 2004, it's 10 out of 10. If your top 10 guy hasn't played an NHL game within three years of being drafted, you've likely got a miss on your hands.

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#68 RossCreek
June 05 2009, 09:37AM
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@ Robin Where do you see Bouwmeester signing? I'm thinking there's a good half of the league that will be in on him, but i think his motives will determine where he lands. My latest feeling is maybe Dallas. They've got a hole back there and if guys like Lehtinen and Zubov don't return, they've got the cap space. With Joe Nieuwendyk having played and worked in Florida, would it be off-base to suggest they land him? I mean I can see him in lots of places for lots of different reasons, but what's he looking for? Edmonton? Calgary? Vancouver? LA? Anaheim? San Jose? St. Louis? Minnesota? Money? Winning? East? West?

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#69 Archaeologuy
June 05 2009, 09:38AM
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Chris wrote:

Staal. Not avilable AND MORE EXPENSIVE. Sedins/St Louis. Better? NO. They aren’t. The Sedins are available, but I’d hate to have to kill myself if we signed them.

oops on Staal. That one is my bad.

The Sedins are younger and have been consistent point per gamers for the last 3 years. They dont lose puck battles and can find each other all over the ice. Dont buy into their nickname "the sisters", they can play.

And you didnt ask about availability. That is a WHOLE other problem than naming better players at lower prices.

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#70 Ogden Brother
June 05 2009, 09:38AM
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Chris wrote:

@ Ogden Brother: There are people in Vancouver who strongly feel it would be wise to move Luongo before the deadline rather than pay his expected salary. There are people who have theorized that the Capitals will never win the cup, thanks to Ovechkin’s huge contract eating up too much cap space for the team to sign complementary players. Five years from now LeCavalier’s contract may be an albatross… but damn it: As a season ticket holder, it would be nice to go to the rink and watch a player like him play… Besides, it takes special players to win you the cup. (Pronger 06), (Gretz, Mess, etc 80s)… Crosby, Malkin, Zetterberg, Today. Who would miss Gilbert and Cogliano when Lecavalier skates out to take the draw on his first Oiler powerplay?

Again I agree on the short term. It' years 4 - 11 that I would worry about.

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#71 Ogden Brother
June 05 2009, 09:44AM
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Archaeologuy wrote:

Chris wrote: Staal. Not avilable AND MORE EXPENSIVE. Sedins/St Louis. Better? NO. They aren’t. The Sedins are available, but I’d hate to have to kill myself if we signed them. oops on Staal. That one is my bad. The Sedins are younger and have been consistent point per gamers for the last 3 years. They dont lose puck battles and can find each other all over the ice. Dont buy into their nickname “the sisters”, they can play. And you didnt ask about availability. That is a WHOLE other problem than naming better players at lower prices.

He mentioned availability:

"Who is this magic player who is more talented than Vinny; puts up better numbers, costs less, and is rumored to be available?"

And really, that's the whole essence of the argument. Do we want a top end player know, or do we want to wait... and hope that Gagner turns into one before Hemsky is on the downswing.

Theirs maybe only a handful of guys "top 10" at their repsective positions, and the worse the contract the less we'd have to give up talent wise.

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#72 Robin Brownlee
June 05 2009, 09:44AM
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@ RossCreek: Winning. Jay will get all the money he can ever spend no matter where he goes, so I'd be surprised if he doesn't sign with a team that's considered a contender. That's somewhat vague, I know, but I'm guessing after sweating out the hockey wasteland that is Florida, he's ready for a contender in a hockey town.

I haven't talked to Bryon Baltimore, but my understanding after speaking with somebody who knows Jay is he's not dead-set against playing here in his hometown like he was a few years ago, but it would also be stretching things to suggest that translates into Edmonton being one of his likeliest destinations.

The picture will clear and the focus on teams in the running for Jay will sharpen in the two weeks before July 1.

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#73 Chris
June 05 2009, 09:47AM
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Archaeologuy wrote:

And you didnt ask about availability.

Chris wrote:

The only reason Tampa may be shopping Vinny is because of that PROHIBATIVE contract.

We are discussing Vinny because it is rumored that he is available. This is what is hinging this whole discussion. Don't think for even ONE second I believe that Vinny is the BEST player in the league to skate with Hemsky. I believe he may be the best AVAILABLE player to skate with Hemsky. Chris wrote:

Who is this magic player who is more talented than Vinny; puts up better numbers, costs less, and is rumored to be available?

Vinny will go to L.A. if he goes at all, or maybe Montreal. That said, Tambellini should still make an offer. Tambellini will also talk to the Sedin's agent should they hit free agancy. They are good players but I dislike them the same way you seem to dislike LeCavalier. St.Louis is a fine player, but he is not as good as Lecavalier, and certainly doesn't fit in with the Oilers roster as well as Vinny would.

This hole debate centers around the holy trinity of trades: Quality, Availability, and Price.

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#74 Ogden Brother
June 05 2009, 09:51AM
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Chris wrote:

Archaeologuy wrote: And you didnt ask about availability. Chris wrote: The only reason Tampa may be shopping Vinny is because of that PROHIBATIVE contract. We are discussing Vinny because it is rumored that he is available. This is what is hinging this whole discussion. Don’t think for even ONE second I believe that Vinny is the BEST player in the league to skate with Hemsky. I believe he may be the best AVAILABLE player to skate with Hemsky. Chris wrote: Who is this magic player who is more talented than Vinny; puts up better numbers, costs less, and is rumored to be available? Vinny will go to L.A. if he goes at all, or maybe Montreal. That said, Tambellini should still make an offer. Tambellini will also talk to the Sedin’s agent should they hit free agancy. They are good players but I dislike them the same way you seem to dislike LeCavalier. St.Louis is a fine player, but he is not as good as Lecavalier, and certainly doesn’t fit in with the Oilers roster as well as Vinny would. This hole debate centers around the holy trinity of trades: Quality, Availability, and Price.

Lacv really should be had for a deep discount though, if their was ever a team that had lost leverage, it is TB.

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#75 Archaeologuy
June 05 2009, 09:54AM
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@ Chris: Well, he might be available (or not if you believe anything that comes out of Brian Lawton's mouth, i dont), but there HAS to be a better option out there. It might not be as quality a player as Lecavalier (and i do think he's good, just not crazy good), but for the Oilers' situation moving forward i think the cons outweigh the negative for Lecavalier. A lot of things would change if the Oilers took that contract and i dont think they would all be for the better.

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#76 RossCreek
June 05 2009, 09:56AM
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@ Robin If you were in charge of the Oil, would you try and land Bouwmeester and move a defenceman or 2 to improve other areas or would you pass on him?

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#77 Ogden Brother
June 05 2009, 09:57AM
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Archaeologuy wrote:

@ Chris: Well, he might be available (or not if you believe anything that comes out of Brian Lawton’s mouth, i dont), but there HAS to be a better option out there. It might not be as quality a player as Lecavalier (and i do think he’s good, just not crazy good), but for the Oilers’ situation moving forward i think the cons outweigh the negative for Lecavalier. A lot of things would change if the Oilers took that contract and i dont think they would all be for the better.

It's too bad we didn't have a couple of good but not great guys on the tail end of heavly front loaded contracts... could have made the trade alot more realistic.

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#78 speeds
June 05 2009, 09:58AM
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I'll guess Detroit for Bouwmeester, if Lidstrom retires and/or Hossa goes UFA.

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#79 Chris
June 05 2009, 10:02AM
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@ Archaeologuy: Chris wrote:

Many of us here in hypothetical city would do Esa’s deal anyway. Others wouldn’t.

Fair enough. I'd do the deal. Willis said he "might". Esa Tikanaen suggested the deal. You and Ogden Bro and others wouldn't. My only point in all of this is that high end players are rarely available... and will usually be expensive to trade for, and come with a big cap hit. I disagree with this statement: Archaeologuy wrote:

And for the record it isnt that hard to find better players at less money than Lecavalier.

They do exist, but they are hard to find, and they are never available for young guys, prospects, and spare parts.

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#80 Robin Brownlee
June 05 2009, 10:02AM
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@ RossCreek: I'd pass. It's easy to say that you could clear a couple of contracts from the back end to make room for Jay but it's a lot harder to do it. And, for argument sake, even if you were to move Grebeshkov AND Gilbert, add up the salaries you're paying to Bouwmeester, Visnovsky and Souray and tell me how you address any other needs while staying under the cap.

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#81 speeds
June 05 2009, 10:12AM
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I don't even know if I'd move Cogliano alone for Lecavalier, his contract just looks terrible going forward.

I don't see the point. If you are willing to take on that terrible contract, you might as well just sign a guy via UFA and use the pieces it would (apparently*) take to land some draft picks/fill some other lineup holes. And if no one wants to sign in EDM, even if you overpay, I'm not convinced that doing nothing is worse than trading significant pieces for Lecavalier and his contract. It's not like the Oilers need a guy like Lecavalier to sell tickets, not at the moment anyways.

* - we'll see what Lecav actually returns if a trade goes down, I think it will be way less than people think but I've certainly been wrong before)

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#82 Rick
June 05 2009, 10:15AM
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speeds wrote:

I’ll guess Detroit for Bouwmeester, if Lidstrom retires and/or Hossa goes UFA.

If Lidstrom retires, Detroit is hooped.

I think he signed his last contract after 35 so wouldn't he count against the cap either way?

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#83 Archaeologuy
June 05 2009, 10:18AM
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speeds wrote:

we’ll see what Lecav actually returns if a trade goes down, I think it will be way less than people think but I’ve certainly been wrong before)

That team is bleeding money left right and Centre. Who knows. Maybe Garth Snow/Charles Wang would give up #1 for Lecavalier. Now THAT would be an exciting Draft day!

I think you're right. The Lightning have to be looking to unload salary right now and will likely take less in return for Lecavalier than he's "worth". If I were GM for the day the 1st phone call i would make would be to find out what it takes to get St Louis out of there.

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#84 speeds
June 05 2009, 10:18AM
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You are correct, that is my mistake. For some reason I was thinking he was a UFA at year end.

Scratch that idea.

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#85 speeds
June 05 2009, 10:20AM
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I was looking at a cap site, but looking at the wrong column, probably distracted by Federer looking so sluggish at the moment.

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#86 Ogden Brother
June 05 2009, 10:21AM
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speeds wrote:

I don’t even know if I’d move Cogliano alone for Lecavalier, his contract just looks terrible going forward. I don’t see the point. If you are willing to take on that terrible contract, you might as well just sign a guy via UFA and use the pieces it would (apparently*) take to land some draft picks/fill some other lineup holes. And if no one wants to sign in EDM, even if you overpay, I’m not convinced that doing nothing is worse than trading significant pieces for Lecavalier and his contract. It’s not like the Oilers need a guy like Lecavalier to sell tickets, not at the moment anyways. * - we’ll see what Lecav actually returns if a trade goes down, I think it will be way less than people think but I’ve certainly been wrong before)

Gainey said their talks were centerd around Chris Higgins, Tomas Plekanec and Jose Gorges. I'm sure thier was probably a pick or a prospect in their too.

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#87 RossCreek
June 05 2009, 10:23AM
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@ Robin Ok. Personally I'd take a look at getting younger in the veteran core. I'd take a look at moving both Souray & Visnovsky (if I could land Bouwmeester) and hold on to Gilbert and Grebeshkov. The returns you get for the older 2 aren't as important as the cleared $ IMO. Build a nucleus that can grow together. The problem with this team IMO is that by the time the younger players are ready to make a push, the older players will be out of gas.

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#88 Hemmertime
June 05 2009, 10:27AM
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Rick wrote:

If Lidstrom retires, Detroit is hooped.

I know, with ~only Rafalski, a Poor Mans Bouwmeester in Brad Stuart, and Kronwall locked up for 3 more years what ever shall they do?

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#89 Robin Brownlee
June 05 2009, 10:29AM
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@ RossCreek: If you could move Souray and Visnovsky, you'd be a magician. I don't see it, but even if you could, I'm not sure I'd want to part with both of them.

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#90 Ogden Brother
June 05 2009, 10:36AM
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Robin Brownlee wrote:

@ RossCreek: If you could move Souray and Visnovsky, you’d be a magician. I don’t see it, but even if you could, I’m not sure I’d want to part with both of them.

You think theirs really no market for those guys what so ever? They might not be elite, but their both still fairly high end defensmen. I'm sure their will be SOME trades this summer.

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#91 Robin Brownlee
June 05 2009, 10:43AM
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@ Ogden Brother: Didn't say that. Teams with the ability to spend $5 million-plus on a defenceman won't be looking at a 35-year-old until they've tried younger options. With Souray, you also have to consider his NMC.

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#92 Rick
June 05 2009, 10:44AM
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Hemmertime wrote:

only Rafalski, a Poor Mans Bouwmeester in Brad Stuart, and Kronwall locked up for 3 more years what ever shall they do

You mean aside from having 7.45 mil in cap space tied up with nothing to show for it while already being pressed tight up against it?

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#93 Ogden Brother
June 05 2009, 10:51AM
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Robin Brownlee wrote:

@ Ogden Brother: Didn’t say that. Teams with the ability to spend $5 million-plus on a defenceman won’t be looking at a 35-year-old until they’ve tried younger options. With Souray, you also have to consider his NMC.

Fair enough, but if Bo tells tambs he'll sign. I'm sure he could off load one of the two, even for peanuts if need be.

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#94 Rick
June 05 2009, 10:58AM
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Ogden Brother wrote:

Fair enough, but if Bo tells tambs he’ll sign. I’m sure he could off load one of the two, even for peanuts if need be.

I agree that if by some miracle Bouwmeester was in play the ideal move is to send one of Souray or Vishnovsky elsewhere but here's a question;

If you can't move one of the older guys but could get Bouwmeester, are the Oilers better off overall if they moved Gilbert and Grebeshkov to make space for him?

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#95 Ogden Brother
June 05 2009, 11:02AM
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Rick wrote:

Ogden Brother wrote: Fair enough, but if Bo tells tambs he’ll sign. I’m sure he could off load one of the two, even for peanuts if need be. I agree that if by some miracle Bouwmeester was in play the ideal move is to send one of Souray or Vishnovsky elsewhere but here’s a question; If you can’t move one of the older guys but could get Bouwmeester, are the Oilers better off overall if they moved Gilbert and Grebeshkov to make space for him?

Depends what you get back I guess. If we could land say Hartnel and a 1st (or that equvalent)out of Gilbert/Grebs then I'd probably do it

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#96 Hemmertime
June 05 2009, 02:01PM
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Robin Brownlee wrote:

Didn’t say that. Teams with the ability to spend $5 million-plus on a defenceman won’t be looking at a 35-year-old until they’ve tried younger options. With Souray, you also have to consider his NMC.

Doesnt Visnovsky also have a NMC ? Didnt we pick him up like 1-2 days before it kicked in.

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#97 risto
June 05 2009, 02:42PM
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MacT coaching Minny? He's trashtalked that team and its style for a decade! Too funny.

Gaborik would be sweet.

Between almost snagging Selanne(didn't know) and not drafting Doan(was there, ugh), we could've really screwed over the Jets even more than stealing 99 and beating them EVERY SINGLE PLAYOFF SERIES in the NHL.

It would be fun to have a team back in the peg.

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#98 Dan
June 05 2009, 06:49PM
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Rick wrote:

If you can’t move one of the older guys but could get Bouwmeester, are the Oilers better off overall if they moved Gilbert and Grebeshkov to make space for him?

Could you imagine a top 4 of: Bouwmeester Visnovsky Souray Grebeshkov

It could very well be the best top 4 in the NHL, also the most expensive. But at least the Oilers would have a foundation on which to build this team around.

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#99 Smitty
June 05 2009, 08:09PM
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I was researching arumour I heard from a unreliable source but how good is the package from a, say San Jose, a combination of Michalek, Cheechoo or Vlasic. Souray may wish to go to California based team and SJ is itching for change after another brutal beat-down!!

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#100 myteammytown
June 05 2009, 08:19PM
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@ Smitty:

did you do your research at a site that ryhmes with suckybuzz?

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