Oilers Sign RFA's Smid, Brule and Stone

Jonathan Willis
August 12 2009 11:15AM

The Edmonton Oilers have announced the signing of restricted free agents Ladislav Smid, Gilbert Brule, and Ryan Stone.

The key player here is obviously Ladislav Smid.  He's spent his entire NHL career in Edmonton, and their have been rumours that he has requested a trade in the past, but he sounded fairly happy today:

“This is great news for me.  I really enjoy playing for the Oilers. I feel my game is improving every year and I can’t wait to get started again this fall.”

It's a two-year contract, and dollar figures are presently unavailable.  Yesterday, Jim Matheson suggested that Smid and Brule combined would be around 2.5 million, so I'd guess Smid's deal is in the 1.5-1.6 MM range.  If so, it isn't exactly a bargain, but it isn't a bad bet either for a maturing physical defenseman.

Gilbert Brule also signed, and the surprise is that it's a two-way deal (evidently the Oilers are convinced he can be sent down without clearing waivers).  It's only for a single year, and should give Brule a chance to prove if he belongs in the lineup or not.  I'd guess he'll earn between 800K and 1MM (based on Matheson's article yesterday) and I hope it's toward the lower end of that range.

Lastly, Ryan Stone has signed.  Stone came over from Pittsburgh in the Matheiu Garon trade last year, and spent all of his time after the trade with Springfield.  He's a darkhorse candidate for a roster spot, but the smart money says he's a top-six AHL forward this coming season.  He's got size, a willingness to use it,  and some scoring ability.  Today's signings leave Rob Schremp as the last of the Oilers' restricted free agents.

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Jonathan Willis is a freelance writer. He currently works for Oilers Nation, Sportsnet, the Edmonton Journal and Bleacher Report. He's co-written three books and worked for myriad websites, including Grantland, ESPN, The Score, and Hockey Prospectus. He was previously the founder and managing editor of Copper & Blue.
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#51 Ogden Brother
August 12 2009, 01:35PM
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Chris. wrote:

@ Ogden Brother: Yes. Maybe not because of pride… (though I wonder)… I believe Oilers management is loath, to a fault, to outright release a player without compensation. IMO, this kind of thinking is obsolete, and is holding the team back. Look: I’m pretty sure that somebody would pick up Pouliot off waivers. I’m also pretty sure that Tambellini won’t sign anyone untill at least one more contract is moved… and he’s having trouble moving guys like Schremp, Pouliot, Nilsson, etc. I’m also pretty sure that Betts is an upgrade over the above mentioned players. So I wonder why the Oilers don’t just (in a round about way) trade Pouliot for Betts? Isn’t improving your team compensation enough?

Ya I agree, it's a no brainer to "trade" Pouliot for Betts or something of similar. I'm really hoping it isn't a fear of "looking bad" or lossing an "asset for nothing" that is holding them back though.... man would I be disapointed if it was.

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#52 Racki
August 12 2009, 01:37PM
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@ Chris.:

I agree with you on this and did an article on my blog today about it. It seems silly that the Oil are trying to hang on to average, borderline players when they can get a guy who excels at his job for nearly the same price.

I personally would drop Nilsson and Pouliot and pick up either Malhotra or Betts. Malhotra gives the bonus of having consistently one of the league's best FO%, and is a good PKer, but has a bit of offensive upside. Betts gives us more size, excels at the PK and is decent on the dot (just under 50, if I recall) and won't cost much more than Pouliot.

Nilsson, in my opinion, does not fit in our line up at all whether we get Betts/Malhotra or not. That's a wasted $2M, carrying around a player that might not get much ice time, save for someone getting hurt.

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#53 Ogden Brother
August 12 2009, 01:41PM
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Colin wrote:

@ Ogden Brother: I didn’t think you could put a guy on waivers in August, if that is the plan we might not see it for a while.

Ya I'm not sure if they can waive in the summer or not, but they can go over the cap now and then waive during the pre-season. Bring Betts in for a million. Tell him he and Pouliot are fighting for a spot. Loser goes on waivers.

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#54 Chris.
August 12 2009, 01:51PM
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@ Ogden Brother: @ Racki:

We all agree. This seems like a no-brainer... yet all we hear from Tambellini, is how "hard it is to move bodies, right now..."

If Tambellini misses out on Betts, simply because he's reluctant to temporarily exceed the cap, and then use the waiver wire... I'll be pissed. On the other hand, if he manages to get something for a bum like Pouliot, and signs Betts (or any other upgrade) for free: I'll hail him a genius. I just hope the braintrust isn't playing this thing too cute. I also sincerely hope, they don't believe their own hype about some VERY marginal players.

I'm starting to grow concerned about the apparent lack of activity.

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#55 Tull
August 12 2009, 02:07PM
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I know everyone on here gripes on those who say dump Nilsson with the same response, "who would be dumb enough to take him".

Well, who was dumb enough to take Vandermeer and his salary? Or when the Yotes dumped Reinprecht and his 2 mill to the Panthers? Or when Tampa dumped Vrbata and his 3 mill back to the Yotes? The common theme is that Phoenix is always involved - but more importantly that these type of players can easily be compared to a Nilsson in terms of the inflated salary and no real need on the market.

These deals happened though, so I don't think its unfathomable to believe we can't do the same thing.

If Tambo can pull get rid of some of these guys proactively, then maybe we can start filling our evident holes. I think the addition of Betts and Malhotra would be great for the third line, shouldn't cost much, and works as long as we can pull off the salary dumps that everyone else seems to be doing around the league.

Thoughts?

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#56 Chris.
August 12 2009, 02:09PM
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Damn. Where is the conflict this afternoon? Where is the sizzle?

Is it too much to ask for a Troll to say something stupid so we can all take turns soundly thumping him/her?

Where's the guy who says that Horcoff is a third line center at best and doesn't deserve the $8 million/season Lowe gave him?

Where's the guy who says Cogs will score forty goals if given the chance to play on the first line with Hemsky and Gagner?

Where's the guy who thinks Katz is broke?

...That Edmonton should be called Deadmonton..?..

Anybody?

I'm bored.

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#57 Ogden Brother
August 12 2009, 02:13PM
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Tull wrote:

I know everyone on here gripes on those who say dump Nilsson with the same response, “who would be dumb enough to take him”. Well, who was dumb enough to take Vandermeer and his salary? Or when the Yotes dumped Reinprecht and his 2 mill to the Panthers? Or when Tampa dumped Vrbata and his 3 mill back to the Yotes? The common theme is that Phoenix is always involved - but more importantly that these type of players can easily be compared to a Nilsson in terms of the inflated salary and no real need on the market. These deals happened though, so I don’t think its unfathomable to believe we can’t do the same thing. If Tambo can pull get rid of some of these guys proactively, then maybe we can start filling our evident holes. I think the addition of Betts and Malhotra would be great for the third line, shouldn’t cost much, and works as long as we can pull off the salary dumps that everyone else seems to be doing around the league. Thoughts?

Ya the whole "you can't move $$$" is for the most part just us internet dwebs yaking back and fourth as your examples above prove, moving small bad contracts is fairly easy. And the Gomez/Smyth/proposed Penner deal show it's not quite as hard as we think to move large bad contracts.

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#58 rindog
August 12 2009, 02:14PM
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Dominoiler wrote:

That quote was shot down immediately by JW, but following posts kept bringing up Chorney’s name as a def. call up.. its ridiculous if you look at how badly he was out classed in the AHL for his Rookie season… now, because he has been highly touted for a few years as a prospect, people think (blindly) that hes ready for ‘the jump’… be real…

I have no problem if you don't think Chorney is ready...that's fine. What is your alternative? He is the next in line in our system (I would think).

All I said that if we can unload Staios for a 3rd (or 4th) line center - I would love to see Peckham up here full time.

Unlike JW; I would have no problem starting the season with: 71,44,37,77,5,43 & 49.

I think if we get rid of Staios is it addition by subtraction...

If you (or more importantly the Oilers) don't think Chorney could fill in for 10 mins a game for a few games - then they could acquire a more veteran (cheap) guy.

For the record, Daum has stated that Chorney's game really picked up down the stretch and made major improvements (for what that's worth).

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#59 ronaldo
August 12 2009, 02:29PM
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Chris. wrote:

Where’s the guy who says that Horcoff is a third line center at best and doesn’t deserve the $8 million/season Lowe gave him? Where’s the guy who says Cogs will score forty goals if given the chance to play on the first line with Hemsky and Gagner? Where’s the guy who thinks Katz is broke? …That Edmonton should be called Deadmonton..?..

4the Liner 50 Not a dime Squaresville

You're welcome.

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#60 rindog
August 12 2009, 02:31PM
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Chris. wrote:

Damn. Where is the conflict this afternoon? Where is the sizzle?

Why don't we start a debate about Moreau, Pisani and Staios??

Combined they are $7.2 million cap hit this season (2.0, 2.5 $ 2.7 respectively).

While I feel they all add value to our team - I believe they are easily replaced (at a lot cheaper price). Names like: Betts, Devereaux, Cowan, York, Pettinger, Klee, Zanon, Hnidy (as examples) all come to mind if the spots can't be filled internally.

I have long since thought our coach (supported by $$ handed out by management) defined the wrong players as our core - and would love to see an entire new direction of leadership (now that we have a new coach).

Thoughts???

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#61 Ogden Brother
August 12 2009, 02:40PM
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Chris. wrote:

Damn. Where is the conflict this afternoon? Where is the sizzle? Is it too much to ask for a Troll to say something stupid so we can all take turns soundly thumping him/her? Where’s the guy who says that Horcoff is a third line center at best and doesn’t deserve the $8 million/season Lowe gave him? Where’s the guy who says Cogs will score forty goals if given the chance to play on the first line with Hemsky and Gagner? Where’s the guy who thinks Katz is broke? …That Edmonton should be called Deadmonton..?.. Anybody? I’m bored.

The previous blog got a little snarky, you could hang out there?

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#62 Oilersordeath
August 12 2009, 02:42PM
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I'm really getting a good feeling that Quinn and Rens is going to make guys like Brule, Cogs, hell even maybe Poo come into thier own this year. Not that Cogs needs it as much as the others but I forsee a faster better puck control team. C,mon boys it has to get better!! I'm getting pumped for TC.

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#63 OvenChicken8
August 12 2009, 02:42PM
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rindog wrote:

Why don’t we start a debate about Moreau, Pisani and Staios?? Combined they are $7.2 million cap hit this season (2.0, 2.5 $ 2.7 respectively).

I prefer having those 3 for 7 million then paying Horcoff 7 million this season. (yes I know 5.5 cap hit)

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#64 Tull
August 12 2009, 02:45PM
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@ Rindog

I think Moreau and Staois have value around the league - but wouldn't net much in return. Which is the perfect scenario for us.

They dumped MacT, and in order to completely clean house, you have to get rid of MacT's henchmen too. These guys still represent the old, and as long as they're around - this team will still have the same identity. They started it off by letting some of the better leaders in Smith and Smyth go, now they need to finish it off with Moreau and Staois.

Also I hope Gregor rides Horcoff this afternoon and outright calls his deal one of the worst contracts in hockey to his face. I'd be interested to see what Horc's response would be.

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#65 Mark
August 12 2009, 02:57PM
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Tull wrote:

Also I hope Gregor rides Horcoff this afternoon and outright calls his deal one of the worst contracts in hockey to his face. I’d be interested to see what Horc’s response would be.

Yes that will happen. You have no idea how it works then. He'll ask hard questions, but giving his opinion is not how you interview someone.

It isn't the worst contract until he actually plays a game when it kicks in. Obviously it is bad, but if he scores 75 points this year then it isn't the worst. I'm curious what angle Gregor will take, but from the other interviews I've heard from him he'll find a way to ask a tough question without insulting the guest.

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#66 ronaldo
August 12 2009, 02:57PM
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Tull wrote:

Also I hope Gregor rides Horcoff this afternoon and outright calls his deal one of the worst contracts in hockey to his face.

Do you actually think this is a possibility or do you just think it would be cool if it happened?

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#67 Jason Gregor
August 12 2009, 02:58PM
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Sorry about yesterday Oiler fans, Horcoff's flight was delayed and he'll be on today at 4:30...Also Kevin Prendergast will be on at 3:10 to talk Smid, Brule etc...

And Tull...sorry dude...telling a guy his contract is the worst before it kicks in isn't that bright. I will ask him about it, but not in the fashion you suggested.

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#68 Jonathan Willis
August 12 2009, 03:02PM
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#69 rindog
August 12 2009, 03:05PM
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@ Jason Gregor:

Gregs,

Is it just me or does that picture of Chase (from the Team 1260 site - morning show) look exactly like your clone???

Sorry buddy - it IS a boring day in the world of sport...

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#70 Jonathan Willis
August 12 2009, 03:05PM
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rindog wrote:

Names like: Betts, Devereaux, Cowan, York, Pettinger, Klee, Zanon, Hnidy (as examples) all come to mind if the spots can’t be filled internally.

Blair Betts, Boyd Devereaux, Jeff Cowan, Mike York and Matt Pettinger are all basically fourth liners. None of them could replace Moreau/Pisani.

As for Moreau and Pisani:

- If Moreau goes, who brings a physical dimension to the top nine? - If either/both go, does that upgrade or downgrade the PK? - If either/both go, does that positively/negatively impact this team's ability to win games?

Outside of Horcoff (and maybe O'Sullivan/Hemsky) those are the only established two-way options on the team. Yes, they're overpaid, but Pisani's contract is up at the end of the year, and Moreau's physical dimension is needed.

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#71 rindog
August 12 2009, 03:07PM
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Jonathan Willis wrote:

There’s nothing wrong with Pouliot as a 4th-liner.

Pouliot is just fine on the 4th line.

The only thing I don't like about him is that he doesn't hit. You usually want your 4th line to "create energy" - something that Pouliot's game lacks...

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#72 ScubaSteve
August 12 2009, 03:13PM
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rindog wrote:

Jonathan Willis wrote: There’s nothing wrong with Pouliot as a 4th-liner. Pouliot is just fine on the 4th line. The only thing I don’t like about him is that he doesn’t hit. You usually want your 4th line to “create energy” - something that Pouliot’s game lacks…

Yeah, agreed. I couldn't care less if the 4th line scored 0 goals, but dished out 30 hits per game. No one cares about scoring from your bottom 3, basically every team's 4th line players score 8-5-13 or something like that. I like Poo, but he needs to find an identity, and with his game, it needs to be 2nd or 3rd lines, having him on the 4th is a waste.

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#73 Lofty
August 12 2009, 03:16PM
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Ogden Brother wrote:

The previous blog got a little snarky, you could hang out there?

agreed

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#74 Chris.
August 12 2009, 03:21PM
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rindog wrote:

While I feel they all add value to our team - I believe they are easily replaced (at a lot cheaper price).

You take a real risk moving too many established NHL'ers at once; especially when your team already lacks a strong identity. While I agree, the collective cap hit for Moreau, Staios, and Pisani is quite high; this was probably a reflection of the 06 run combined with a different market/cap reality. With Smid now under contract, and Peckham nearly ready: I'd be okay with moving Staios before the deadline.

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#75 rindog
August 12 2009, 03:22PM
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Jonathan Willis wrote:

Blair Betts, Boyd Devereaux, Jeff Cowan, Mike York and Matt Pettinger are all basically fourth liners. None of them could replace Moreau/Pisani.

First of all, those were just examples - and why couldn't they take the place of Moreau or Pisani? I would take Pettinger and Betts as a substitute for Moreau and Pisani - no problem!!

Maybe Brule and Pouliot get the promotion to the third line if those two went?

My point is simple...

I think it be would fairly easy (and cheap) to replace Pisani and Moreau.

Jonathan Willis wrote:

- If either/both go, does that upgrade or downgrade the PK?

We were 27th in the NHL with them - can't get much worse, can it?

Jonathan Willis wrote:

If Moreau goes, who brings a physical dimension to the top nine?

At what point does his physical/undisciplined play become an asset or a detriment? There are many other physical players (that could be obtained) that know how to maintain their discipline.

Jonathan Willis wrote:

If either/both go, does that positively/negatively impact this team’s ability to win games?

We have missed the playoffs the last three years with those guys being our core. Would it really hurt to try and go another direction?

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#76 11th Place Team.
August 12 2009, 03:23PM
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Pouliot is an ideal player on my roster.

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#77 Jason Gregor
August 12 2009, 03:25PM
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rindog wrote:

Gregs, Is it just me or does that picture of Chase (from the Team 1260 site - morning show) look exactly like your clone??? Sorry buddy - it IS a boring day in the world of sport…

We have shaved heads and glasses...but that doesn't mean we look alike...We don't look alike at all I don't think...

You must be bored to ask that...ha

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#78 rindog
August 12 2009, 03:26PM
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Chris. wrote:

You take a real risk moving too many established NHL’ers at once; especially when your team already lacks a strong identity

To me that is an argument supporting moving fringe players like Moreau and Pisani.

I think a large reason our team lacks an identity is because the wrong players have been given that job of creating such an identity.

I am not saying that we have to move all 3 (although I would support that) but getting rid of 2 of the 3 seems to be a smart business/hockey move.

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#79 Fish
August 12 2009, 03:27PM
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@ 11th Place Team.: Love it.

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#80 rindog
August 12 2009, 03:30PM
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Jason Gregor wrote:

We have shaved heads and glasses…but that doesn’t mean we look alike…We don’t look alike at all I don’t think…

C'mon look at the home page...

Dark coats, white shirts???

I think there is a conspiray in the making...

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#81 Chris.
August 12 2009, 03:35PM
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IMO, for the right return: everyone/anyone is on the block.

Of the three players you submitted for discussion though: Staios is in the steepest decline, and plays a position where the Oilers have organizational depth.

Just my twenty cents.

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#82 Matt
August 12 2009, 03:39PM
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rindog wrote:

Jason Gregor wrote: We have shaved heads and glasses…but that doesn’t mean we look alike…We don’t look alike at all I don’t think… C’mon look at the home page… Dark coats, white shirts??? I think there is a conspiray in the making…

I agree 100%.

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#83 rindog
August 12 2009, 03:41PM
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Chris. wrote:

IMO, for the right return: everyone/anyone is on the block. Of the three players you submitted for discussion though: Staios is in the steepest decline, and plays a position where the Oilers have organizational depth.

I wouldn't need much of anything in return for any of those players (the cap room and roster space would be enough).

As far as Staios goes, I agree. I think Smid and Peckham are just chomping at the bit for Staios' minutes.

That and the fact that Staios can't seem to get the puck out of his end without hammering it glass high around the boards (only to be stuck in his end for another defensive zone face-off).

If we would have to keep one of the three; I would keep Moreau (even though I dog him alot). I think with the right coach (and used properly), Moreau can be a very effective energy (3rd line) player.

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#84 Librarian Mike
August 12 2009, 03:42PM
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Chris. wrote:

I’d be okay with moving Staios before the deadline.

I'd be okay with moving Staios before the end of business on Friday.

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#85 rindog
August 12 2009, 03:46PM
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Librarian Mike wrote:

Chris. wrote: I’d be okay with moving Staios before the deadline. I’d be okay with moving Staios before the end of business on Friday.

But isn't today only Wednesday???

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#86 Librarian Mike
August 12 2009, 03:49PM
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rindog wrote:

Librarian Mike wrote: Chris. wrote: I’d be okay with moving Staios before the deadline. I’d be okay with moving Staios before the end of business on Friday. But isn’t today only Wednesday???

Brother's gotta pack. haha.

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#87 tyler
August 12 2009, 03:50PM
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the only way i personally think you go after on of betts malholtra etc. is if you can find a taker for one of moreau pisani or both they gotta give the kids some time plain and simple were gooing to be duking it out for 6-8 playoff spot anyway so why not let the likes of schremp brule(great move getting him on a 2 way) pouliot and whatever other kid you wanna plug in there battle with the big team playing a diminished role while gaining valuable experience were not talking some junior kid that we cant let reach forty games these guys need a full season under quinn and renney,brule has got to break in somewhere...you sign betts or malholtra that means schremp is almost guaranteed gone (if im not mistaken he has to clear waivers)and brule is most surely starting the year in the minors...LET THE KIDS PLAY

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#88 Fish
August 12 2009, 03:56PM
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I @ tyler: "." Thats a period.

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#89 Ogden Brother
August 12 2009, 03:57PM
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Jason Gregor wrote:

rindog wrote: Gregs, Is it just me or does that picture of Chase (from the Team 1260 site - morning show) look exactly like your clone??? Sorry buddy - it IS a boring day in the world of sport… We have shaved heads and glasses…but that doesn’t mean we look alike…We don’t look alike at all I don’t think… You must be bored to ask that…ha

Google search Jballs lawyer...

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#90 Ogden Brother
August 12 2009, 03:58PM
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rindog wrote:

Chris. wrote: IMO, for the right return: everyone/anyone is on the block. Of the three players you submitted for discussion though: Staios is in the steepest decline, and plays a position where the Oilers have organizational depth. I wouldn’t need much of anything in return for any of those players (the cap room and roster space would be enough). As far as Staios goes, I agree. I think Smid and Peckham are just chomping at the bit for Staios’ minutes. That and the fact that Staios can’t seem to get the puck out of his end without hammering it glass high around the boards (only to be stuck in his end for another defensive zone face-off). If we would have to keep one of the three; I would keep Moreau (even though I dog him alot). I think with the right coach (and used properly), Moreau can be a very effective energy (3rd line) player.

Sounds alot like the "get rid of Torres/Stoll/Reasoner" stuff from last year.....

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#91 Jonathan Willis
August 12 2009, 03:59PM
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rindog wrote:

First of all, those were just examples - and why couldn’t they take the place of Moreau or Pisani? I would take Pettinger and Betts as a substitute for Moreau and Pisani - no problem!!

Moreau vs. Pettinger:

QualComp: 2nd vs. 8th QualTeam: 11th vs. 10th GoalDiff: -0.13/60 vs. -1.06/60

In other words, Ethan Moreau plays far better players than Pettinger does, with similar linemates, but Pettinger gets outscored at nearly 10X the rate Moreau does.

Pisani vs. Betts

QualComp: 3rd vs. 12th QualTeam: 13th vs. 13th GoalDiff: -0.13/60 vs. -1.14/60

In other words, Fernando Pisani plays far better players than Betts does, with similar linemates, but Betts gets outscored at nearly 10X the rate Pisani does.

Betts and Pettinger bleed goals against. That's why they're fourth liners. Moreau and Pisani don't - despite being used in a hard-checking role - and that's why they can't be replaced by Betts and Pettinger.

Maybe Brule and Pouliot get the promotion to the third line if those two went?

Hell, well we're at it, why not move Brule and Pouliot and dress Stone and Reddox! No difference, right?

Guys slot in where they do on the depth chart for a reason. The coach ain't perfect, but he's not stupid either.

I think it be would fairly easy (and cheap) to replace Pisani and Moreau.

And yet you haven't shown an example of another player who can handle tough opposition like they do. The ones who do (for example Malhotra) generally aren't much cheaper.

We were 27th in the NHL with them - can’t get much worse, can it?

How many years have Moreau and Pisani been killing penalties for the Oilers? How many years has the Oilers PK been good? Given the answers to those two questions, do you really think they're the problem?

At what point does his physical/undisciplined play become an asset or a detriment? There are many other physical players (that could be obtained) that know how to maintain their discipline.

It is a problem, and he needs to work on it. I think having a coach willing to cut his icetime and use the whip a little bit will help.

We have missed the playoffs the last three years with those guys being our core. Would it really hurt to try and go another direction?

By that logic, Atlanta might as well move Kovalchuk now. You haven't shown Moreau/Pisani to be part of the problem, and I really don't think they are. This is a team that needs more veteran NHL'ers, not less (on the whole).

Lastly, you'll note that I didn't argue Staios - because I think the wheels have fallen off.

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#92 Jonathan Willis
August 12 2009, 04:02PM
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tyler wrote:

LET THE KIDS PLAY

From an article I wrote at the end of last season:

There's a simple rule that I like to follow when making decisions like this: prospects who are average or below average in the AHL very rarely turn out to be immediately good in the NHL, no matter how nice it would be if they did. It amazes me how few people understand that.
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#93 tyler
August 12 2009, 04:03PM
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Haha thanks fish, i just rifled it off quick my bad sorry if it offended you lol.......

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#94 Jonathan Willis
August 12 2009, 04:03PM
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Ogden Brother wrote:

Sounds alot like the “get rid of Torres/Stoll/Reasoner” stuff from last year…..

We know the Oilers will be fighting for the 6th-8th slot anyway, why not dump those guys and let young kids like Brodziak, Pouliot, Brule, Reddox and Potulny play?

What, you say that strategy didn't work? Baffling.

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#95 Chris.
August 12 2009, 04:04PM
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@ tyler:

I hate the "let the kids play" mentality. Did you read Willis' article a few days back regarding the Penguins? The pathway to Stanley is clear: established, professional, legit NHL'ers take you there. (How many kids occupied key roles during the Oiler 06 run?) If your kids are named Crosby, Kane, or to a lesser extent Gagner... then yeah: Let them play. If your kids are named Brule, Pouliot, Schremp, etc... they'll play you right into an 11th place finish. Young players are unstable, inconsistant, and unless there is a HUGE amount of talent to compensate: cost you wins with rookie mistakes. Let legit pro's eat up the minutes. I'm tired of paying NHL prices to watch AHL players.

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#96 Ogden Brother
August 12 2009, 04:06PM
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Jonathan Willis wrote:

rindog wrote: First of all, those were just examples - and why couldn’t they take the place of Moreau or Pisani? I would take Pettinger and Betts as a substitute for Moreau and Pisani - no problem!! Moreau vs. Pettinger: QualComp: 2nd vs. 8th QualTeam: 11th vs. 10th GoalDiff: -0.13/60 vs. -1.06/60 In other words, Ethan Moreau plays far better players than Pettinger does, with similar linemates, but Pettinger gets outscored at nearly 10X the rate Moreau does. Pisani vs. Betts QualComp: 3rd vs. 12th QualTeam: 13th vs. 13th GoalDiff: -0.13/60 vs. -1.14/60 In other words, Fernando Pisani plays far better players than Betts does, with similar linemates, but Betts gets outscored at nearly 10X the rate Pisani does. Betts and Pettinger bleed goals against. That’s why they’re fourth liners. Moreau and Pisani don’t - despite being used in a hard-checking role - and that’s why they can’t be replaced by Betts and Pettinger. Maybe Brule and Pouliot get the promotion to the third line if those two went? Hell, well we’re at it, why not move Brule and Pouliot and dress Stone and Reddox! No difference, right? Guys slot in where they do on the depth chart for a reason. The coach ain’t perfect, but he’s not stupid either. I think it be would fairly easy (and cheap) to replace Pisani and Moreau. And yet you haven’t shown an example of another player who can handle tough opposition like they do. The ones who do (for example Malhotra) generally aren’t much cheaper. We were 27th in the NHL with them - can’t get much worse, can it? How many years have Moreau and Pisani been killing penalties for the Oilers? How many years has the Oilers PK been good? Given the answers to those two questions, do you really think they’re the problem? At what point does his physical/undisciplined play become an asset or a detriment? There are many other physical players (that could be obtained) that know how to maintain their discipline. It is a problem, and he needs to work on it. I think having a coach willing to cut his icetime and use the whip a little bit will help. We have missed the playoffs the last three years with those guys being our core. Would it really hurt to try and go another direction? By that logic, Atlanta might as well move Kovalchuk now. You haven’t shown Moreau/Pisani to be part of the problem, and I really don’t think they are. This is a team that needs more veteran NHL’ers, not less (on the whole). Lastly, you’ll note that I didn’t argue Staios - because I think the wheels have fallen off.

Bingo, people always think the grass is greener. Our still has to be one of the youngest in the league, we need some friggen vets up front to at least partial off set this.

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#97 Fish
August 12 2009, 04:11PM
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@ tyler: I was just kidding. I didn't have an intelligent comment to add to the post, but still wanted to add something.

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#98 Chris.
August 12 2009, 04:19PM
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Pisani scored fourteen friggen goals in the 06 run. His contract will come off the books before the cap rolls back. Sick, injured, and bounced around: Pisani has been a better player than most during a difficult strech in Oiler history.

Moreau will be an important player under Quinn; if he can stay healthy.

Staios is done.

Of the guys who were there in 06: Hemsky is in for the biggest shock under Quinn. I don't think Hemsky is going to like the "new accountability".

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#99 rindog
August 12 2009, 04:29PM
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Jonathan Willis wrote:

Guys slot in where they do on the depth chart for a reason. The coach ain’t perfect, but he’s not stupid either.

The main reason they slot where they do is because the coach puts them there.

I respect your knack for stats (I find them very valuable and insightful).

What they don't tell you is that those players played on different teams, with different systems. I hardly think it is fair to use the stats you did to compare a checking assignment when the system in place is a HUGE contributor to goals for/against.

They also don't tell you that Moreau got more than a handful of games on a scoring line, etc.

Maybe the defensive pairings for those other two guys were far inferior to the dmen that our guys played with?

I HAVE NO IDEA?

I do however, agree with you 100% that both Moreau and Pisani will be much more effective if their icetime is cut back.

I have also maintained that they are important role players that should have a spot on any team.

My main complaint is that they have been put into a leadership role and it could prove difficult to remove them from from that role while keeping them on the roster.

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#100 Ogden Brother
August 12 2009, 04:30PM
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Ogden Brother wrote:

Bingo, people always think the grass is greener. Our still has to be one of the youngest in the league, we need some friggen vets up front to at least partial off set this.

*our top 6*

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