Gut-check time for you...

Jason Gregor
January 19 2010 09:11AM

I think it's fair to say that the last 16 games have really tested the loyalty of many Oiler fans. One win in 16 games will do that to you; so don’t fret — you aren’t alone.

The final 26 games of 2007 were tough when the Oilers went 4-19-3, and they won their last game of the year to finish 25th and draft Sam Gagner 6th overall. In those 26 games, the Oilers were shut out seven times, scored one goal nine times and were outscored 85-37  the Oilers did win two shootouts so you could give them 39 (but it was only 37 goals in regulation).

Fast forward to now and I wonder if you feel the same way? That team was decimated by injuries and had Sebastien Bisaillon and Bryan Young playing defence for goodness sakes. Joffrey Lupul finished at -29, Shawn Horcoff and Matt Greene were -22 and Petr Sykora was -20.

Ryan Smyth led the team with 53 points despite only playing in 53 games before being traded. It was a dreadful final 43 days of the season, but here we are on Jan 19th, the drought is already 35 days old and looking like it will extend another 86 days until the season ends on April 11th.

Many of you said you could handle a season or two of re-building if it meant getting a franchise player or two. Do you still feel that way? This is a test of your endurance, mettle, loyalty and passion for your mighty Copper and Blue.

You thought 40 days and 40 nights was tough, hell you're five days away from kicking Josh Harnett’s ass and could destroy that by reaching 119 days by season’s end.

The fact is, Oiler fans, for most of you these next 86 days will be the toughest test of your fanhood. Even if you were around during the 92/93 season — the lowest point total in Oiler history — you can’t compare because the three previous years you saw your team win the Cup in 1990, and lose the conference championship in 1991 and 1992.

The 1995/96 season is the closest comparison to the despair you are witnessing right now. Back then it was also the fourth straight season of missing the playoffs. However the previous three years saw you draft Jason Arnott 7th overall in 1993, Jason Bonsignore 4th and Ryan Smyth 6th in 1994, Steve Kelly 7th in 1995 and you were once again in the hunt for a top-five pick, which turned out to be Boyd Devereaux, 6th overall in 1996.

At this point in 1996 you still didn’t know for sure that Kelly and Bonsignore would be busts, and Doug Weight was on his way to 100 points, Zdeno "No chin" Ciger and Arnott were on pace for 30 goals... Arnott got hurt, missed 18 games and finished with 28 goals while "No chin" potted 31. Even that season wasn’t this much of a test.

We are in hell right now

I wonder if Quinn will make a speech similar to this to get the boys through the rest of the season. While the rest of this movie was unrealistic, Al Pacino’s speech was spine-tingling.

You guys are the players. You won’t make it through the next 86 days alone. You’ll need Nation readers to get you thought it. You’ll need the humour, the stupidity, the asinine trade requests, the reasonable replies and the level-headed responses.

You’ll need to know that there are many feeling the same pain while watching your team get pummeled again. Now is not the time to be a quitter or a bandwagon jumper. Hell, now is the time to be more vocal than ever. It would be easy to slip into the shadows of real life, start helping around the house or spending more quality time with the missus, or taking that cooking class you always wanted to or reading a self-help book. But what good will that do you? Nothing I tell you, NOTHING.

Because the minute June 1st rolls around you will be playing catch-up, trying to immerse yourself in the knowledge about the upcoming draft on June 25th. Oh sure, you’ll go to a house party and proclaim you watched the horror of the final 86 days, but you’ll do it with a guilty conscience because deep down you’ll know you couldn’t stomach the horror of those days. You didn’t dig deep down and play through the pain, like you expect the Oilers to do themselves.

If you walk away now you’ll be giving up on the one thing that brings you true joy, but also a pain that only compares to when your first girlfriend dumped you for the guy with a cooler hockey jacket. (Don’t pretend it didn’t hurt because we’ve all been there... in grade seven or eight, or last year for my buddy, but we’ve all been there).

Giving up now and turning off the TV, or not listening to sports shows or not reading the Nation would be easy, but like in life, doing the easy thing is sometimes the wrong thing. It will be hard to drag yourself to the game, or watch it at home without channel surfing, and you might cut down your visits to this lovely site that Wanye built from two batteries, some hair from his ex, and a mixture of a 1993 BL and a half a glass of White Zinfindel.

But why?

Because the team sucks?

Because you know that JDD and DD are overwhelmed at this point and will give up a questionable goal or two?

Because the veterans have decided that taking penalties is the only way they’ll get on the score sheet?

Because Pat Quinn’s pressers aren’t as emotionally charged as they were two months ago?

Because the PPVs are more painful than the games?

Because you truly don’t know who will be better in the long run for this team: Patrick O’Sullivan, Robert Nilsson or Andrew Cogliano?

Those are just excuses; they aren’t real reasons to abandon your love of hockey.

While you ponder what to do instead of watching the Oilers remember that you wouldn’t be the fan you are today without those inconsistent, infuriating bastards...

And things could always be worse. Watch one of the most inspirational sports-related speeches of all time right here:

"If you laugh, you think and you cry that is a full day, that is a heck of a day," Jimmy Valvano.

Keep your dream alive that the Oilers will one day return as a powerhouse in the NHL and that they will do so in your lifetime.

That sums up exactly what it is like to be an Oiler fan right now, I’d bet. You laugh when your buddy tells you they will win. You think hard about which players Steve Tambellini should keep for next season, and then you cry when you watch another trouncing like last night in Colorado.

But wow what an emotional day you will have by maintaining your loyalty to the Nation, the Oilers and hockey talk in general.

And the silver lining is that while the Oilers lost last night, the Leafs, Blue Jackets and Flames all lost. The Oilers have a six point bulge on the Leafs for 29th, and a ten point lead on the Blue Jackets, while the Flames got crushed 9-1 in San Jose and are two points from being out of the playoffs.

And don’t fret if you thought about packing in the season, there are lots of people who have much more stupid ideas than that every day. Check it out and feel good about your decision to get back in the shallow end of the pool with the rest of the true fans.

You’ll feel better about it on June 25th... Unless of course the Oilers go on a winning streak and finish out of the top three.

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One of Canada's most versatile sports personalities. Jason hosts The Jason Gregor Show, weekdays from 2 to 6 p.m., on TSN 1260, and he writes a column every Monday in the Edmonton Journal. You can follow him on Twitter at twitter.com/JasonGregor
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#201 Crash
January 19 2010, 01:44PM
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Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach wrote:

My main issue is that Eberle, MPS and Hall aren't players that this team exactly needs. Granted if they all come in and are exceptional talents then we probably will be.

Adding them still doesn't adress the lack of defense throughout this lineup, the lack of grit, the lack of leadership and so forth.

Also I checked and COL is 4th youngest behind LA,CHI and CBJ

I agree about them not addressing the lack of defense or leadership or grit...all I'm saying is that is it not possible for us to do what Colorado has done this year?

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#202 Horcsky
January 19 2010, 01:45PM
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@Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach

Yup. That and the fact that we aren't 3 and 37 like the Nets. Man. That building must be as quiet as a graveyard. Can't believe a pro sports team has five times less wins than the Oil at about the same point in the season. Brutal!

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#203 Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach
January 19 2010, 01:47PM
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Crash wrote:

I agree about them not addressing the lack of defense or leadership or grit...all I'm saying is that is it not possible for us to do what Colorado has done this year?

It is very possible and there are a few of us that have said it wouldn't take much to get us to that point.

The issue is our management from before and now have yet to show that they know how to adress these problems.

I'm a firm beleiver that we are only 2-3 trades and 2-3 ufa signings away from being a playoff team and that is without adding a first overall pick. That is also with adding a bigger top 6 player as the biggest acquistion.

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#204 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
January 19 2010, 01:48PM
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Archaeologuy wrote:

How was I wrong? Please go on.

Is it not obvious? The team has a legit shot and finishing 25 - 35 points BELOW where they finished last year.

If he truely was incompetent simply replacing him with a competent coach should give the team 10-12+ points....(hell even 4-6)

If Mactavish is incompetent (or even a bad coach) then Quinn/Renney would be hands down the worst coaching group ever assembled.

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#205 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
January 19 2010, 01:48PM
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Crash wrote:

I agree about them not addressing the lack of defense or leadership or grit...all I'm saying is that is it not possible for us to do what Colorado has done this year?

No one is taking possibilities, they are talking probability.

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#206 Chris.
January 19 2010, 01:49PM
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@Crash

Easy... Like Bush said: "Fool me once, shame on... shame on you. Fool me... ...you can't get fooled again."

I don't trust any hype surrounding Oiler prospects. I've been fooled too may times. I guess it's fair to say I'm jaded... But this is separate from my philosophe (however misguided) that teams should try and play actual NHL players... wait for it... in the NHL.

The Colorado example of successfully having two teenagers in the starting roster (an example you have flogged to death) is the exception and not the rule. There are so many injuries in todays game that young blue chip prospects will get tonnes of NHL experience even if they are not named to the starting roster... it's called depth. Yes I'll say it again because it's a concept that's not appreciated by Oiler fans or managemnt: Having quality NHL ready prospects playing in the AHL is a good thing... it's called depth. Depth is the reason why many teams don't drop to last place after suffering injuries.

When you fire all of your guns at once; giving all your quality young prospects NHL jobs... you often lack depth. There are scads of NHL journeyman who can play tough minutes in value contracts; help the team win; and be a valuable rescource to an already young roster. Imagine this: a winning team in Edmonton (not necessarily elite but above .500). A winning team in Springfield (Elite)... AND the ability to recall actual quality. Depth.

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#207 Hunter5
January 19 2010, 01:49PM
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@cableguy - 2nd Tier Fan

Moreau will be on waivers after the season or a buyout. One thing is for sure, there is no market for him regardless of what people want to believe. He can't come back, that would be organizional suicide to have him here again as the captain.

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#208 Crash
January 19 2010, 01:53PM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

Their was huge hype with Gagner, he dominated the super series similar to Eberle dominating the World Jrs. I remembe Cogs have a decent world jrs too. Smid was hyped pretty big as well (taken 9th overall a couple years ago). The other rooks like Gilbert/Brodziak ect are the same as the current 2nd tier of young guys.

This years 1st should probably slot ahead of anything else we have or have ever had, but the rest of the current crop of rookies is really no more special then that from 2 years ago.

And IMO Gagner hasn't disappointed one bit...he has not been given the opportunity to play 1st line minutes very much as of yet...he made this team having just turned 18 before his first training camp. He has not been blessed with the kind of linemates on this team that could have improved his numbers since the start nor has he very often been part of the number one PP unit, especially when Hemsky has been healthy.

His numbers at the start of his career (1st 3 yrs) are comparable with some pretty high end talent of today (ie: Sedins, Joe Thornton, Iginla, Marleau).

I'm not disappointed one bit in Gagner.

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#209 Jmask5
January 19 2010, 01:53PM
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I think this season has shown that MACT was waaay better than people thought. Anyone who doubts him still obviously know nothing about Hockey and just wants to hate for no reason. Sure we're missing Hemsky and Khabibulin but our D for the most part has been Healthy. When MaCT said he could not figure a system that this team could successfully he wasn't just making excuses. Look at Pat Quin this year. Tried to play a puck possession game and gave up on it. Then switched over to dump and chase and that hasn't helped in the least. So basically he's doing what Mact was doing last year.

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#210 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
January 19 2010, 01:57PM
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Chris. wrote:

Easy... Like Bush said: "Fool me once, shame on... shame on you. Fool me... ...you can't get fooled again."

I don't trust any hype surrounding Oiler prospects. I've been fooled too may times. I guess it's fair to say I'm jaded... But this is separate from my philosophe (however misguided) that teams should try and play actual NHL players... wait for it... in the NHL.

The Colorado example of successfully having two teenagers in the starting roster (an example you have flogged to death) is the exception and not the rule. There are so many injuries in todays game that young blue chip prospects will get tonnes of NHL experience even if they are not named to the starting roster... it's called depth. Yes I'll say it again because it's a concept that's not appreciated by Oiler fans or managemnt: Having quality NHL ready prospects playing in the AHL is a good thing... it's called depth. Depth is the reason why many teams don't drop to last place after suffering injuries.

When you fire all of your guns at once; giving all your quality young prospects NHL jobs... you often lack depth. There are scads of NHL journeyman who can play tough minutes in value contracts; help the team win; and be a valuable rescource to an already young roster. Imagine this: a winning team in Edmonton (not necessarily elite but above .500). A winning team in Springfield (Elite)... AND the ability to recall actual quality. Depth.

I'm always baffled by why so many people have trouble with that concept.

A team with two proven NHL'ers on the NHL roster and Eberle/MSP in the minors for a call up

>>>>>>>>

A team with Eberle/MSP in the NHL and O'marra/Reddox in the minors for a call up.

If anyting, this year should be a shinning example of that.... wouldn't we have rather had Gagner and JFJ coming up from the AHL when roster players went down, rather then going to O'marra/Reddox?

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#211 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
January 19 2010, 01:59PM
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Hunter5 wrote:

Moreau will be on waivers after the season or a buyout. One thing is for sure, there is no market for him regardless of what people want to believe. He can't come back, that would be organizional suicide to have him here again as the captain.

So I guess you talked to Sens and Ducks managment?

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#212 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
January 19 2010, 02:01PM
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Crash wrote:

And IMO Gagner hasn't disappointed one bit...he has not been given the opportunity to play 1st line minutes very much as of yet...he made this team having just turned 18 before his first training camp. He has not been blessed with the kind of linemates on this team that could have improved his numbers since the start nor has he very often been part of the number one PP unit, especially when Hemsky has been healthy.

His numbers at the start of his career (1st 3 yrs) are comparable with some pretty high end talent of today (ie: Sedins, Joe Thornton, Iginla, Marleau).

I'm not disappointed one bit in Gagner.

I'm not dissapointed in him either. But that doesn't mean we couldn't have gotten his ~45~ points from a role player for 1.5 million dollars who wouldn't bleed chances against defensively and would have the added bonus of saving years on his rookie contract and allowing him to develop in developmental leagues.

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#213 Chris.
January 19 2010, 02:02PM
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@OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F

Ignoring real proplems and just hoping that Eberle will somehow score thirty next season is sexier than signing a guy like Vernon Fiddler.

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#214 Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach
January 19 2010, 02:07PM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

I'm not dissapointed in him either. But that doesn't mean we couldn't have gotten his ~45~ points from a role player for 1.5 million dollars who wouldn't bleed chances against defensively and would have the added bonus of saving years on his rookie contract and allowing him to develop in developmental leagues.

This is my whole thinking on why we maybe should have backup plans for Eberle and whoever else.

Comrie is that guy and I wouldn't be suprised to see another contract thrown his way.

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#215 Archaeologuy
January 19 2010, 02:09PM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

Is it not obvious? The team has a legit shot and finishing 25 - 35 points BELOW where they finished last year.

If he truely was incompetent simply replacing him with a competent coach should give the team 10-12+ points....(hell even 4-6)

If Mactavish is incompetent (or even a bad coach) then Quinn/Renney would be hands down the worst coaching group ever assembled.

So you are comparing two different teams with two different coaches to prove who is the better coach of the Oilers?

First off, that's ridiculous. They didnt coach the same teams. It's not as if the Quinn/Renney combo came in halfway through last season. They coach different teams. I already covered that earlier, which you conveniently didnt respond to.

And just because this year's team is suffering doesnt mean last year's team was good. Your link between this year and last year is tenuous at best.

Epic Fail for not realizing that MacT was still a poor coach last year.

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#216 cableguy - 2nd Tier Fan
January 19 2010, 02:09PM
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Hunter5 wrote:

Moreau will be on waivers after the season or a buyout. One thing is for sure, there is no market for him regardless of what people want to believe. He can't come back, that would be organizional suicide to have him here again as the captain.

you honestly think the oilers wont find a taker on one of the other 29 teams and they will have to resort to buying him out or waiving him?

really?

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#217 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
January 19 2010, 02:18PM
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Chris. wrote:

Ignoring real proplems and just hoping that Eberle will somehow score thirty next season is sexier than signing a guy like Vernon Fiddler.

True enough.

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#218 Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach
January 19 2010, 02:20PM
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Chris. wrote:

Ignoring real proplems and just hoping that Eberle will somehow score thirty next season is sexier than signing a guy like Vernon Fiddler.

If Souray gets traded does the word sexy, sexier and the phrase big sexy go with him?

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#219 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
January 19 2010, 02:21PM
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Archaeologuy wrote:

So you are comparing two different teams with two different coaches to prove who is the better coach of the Oilers?

First off, that's ridiculous. They didnt coach the same teams. It's not as if the Quinn/Renney combo came in halfway through last season. They coach different teams. I already covered that earlier, which you conveniently didnt respond to.

And just because this year's team is suffering doesnt mean last year's team was good. Your link between this year and last year is tenuous at best.

Epic Fail for not realizing that MacT was still a poor coach last year.

I love watching you try to cop out.

I said many many times that the roster MacT had over his 8 years was flawed, you always wanted to ignore it. Now all of a sudden you state the roster is the problem. Take Rollie and Hemsky off last years team and you've probably got a 60point team. This year you probably have a 60 point team. If coaching was incompetent last year then coaching is incompetent this year. If coaching isn't the issue this year then coaching wasn't the issue last year.

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#220 HottScarrison
January 19 2010, 02:22PM
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Would anyone be surprised to see our glorious mgt trade our 1st rounder to Atl for a chance to sign Kovi. I can see them tryin that and watchin Kovi leave at years end with Tambo cryin in the corner. I hope they don't but it wouldn't surprise me at all with these numbnuts in charge.

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#221 Crash
January 19 2010, 02:22PM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

I'm not dissapointed in him either. But that doesn't mean we couldn't have gotten his ~45~ points from a role player for 1.5 million dollars who wouldn't bleed chances against defensively and would have the added bonus of saving years on his rookie contract and allowing him to develop in developmental leagues.

45 pts from a role player? Heck we can't 45 points out of a player with a 5.5mil cap hit. You think that it's easy to go out and sign a player who will get 45 pts with the Oil for 1.5 mil? Seriously? 1.5mil? Curtis Glencross wouldn't sign here for 1.5mil

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#222 Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach
January 19 2010, 02:23PM
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HottScarrison wrote:

Would anyone be surprised to see our glorious mgt trade our 1st rounder to Atl for a chance to sign Kovi. I can see them tryin that and watchin Kovi leave at years end with Tambo cryin in the corner. I hope they don't but it wouldn't surprise me at all with these numbnuts in charge.

I think i woould have to make sure my hunting rifle was cleaned and sighted in if that happened.

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#223 cableguy - 2nd Tier Fan
January 19 2010, 02:25PM
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HottScarrison wrote:

Would anyone be surprised to see our glorious mgt trade our 1st rounder to Atl for a chance to sign Kovi. I can see them tryin that and watchin Kovi leave at years end with Tambo cryin in the corner. I hope they don't but it wouldn't surprise me at all with these numbnuts in charge.

tambellini would be hung from the gretzky statue by his short and curlies and beaten within an inch of his life...

my weapon of choice would be one of the old school Gretzky Titan hockey sticks..

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#224 Jmask5
January 19 2010, 02:28PM
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The Oilers need a Healthy Hemsky and Khabibulin, 1 or Shutdown D to replace Grebs and Souray who need to go. They also need a Defensive Center who can win faceoffs signed to a couple of years to give Lander a few years in the AHL so he can become that guy later on.

If they just add MPS/Hall/Eberle/Omark and call it a day then this team will suck again.

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#225 HottScarrison
January 19 2010, 02:29PM
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@Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach

Hunting rifle??? I was hoping for pitchforks and burning stakes. That is the part of mgt that scares me. Some sort of last-ditch hurrah to save face...maybe knowin they r gone at year's end and a big ol eff you to everyone else. I really hope not but they are capable of that sort of shenannigans.

finger crossed that they aren't that stupid

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#226 Hunter5
January 19 2010, 02:31PM
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@cableguy - 2nd Tier Fan

We'll if you dont believe me, take a serious look at what the other teams are paying their 4th liners. They all get somewhere between 500,000 to a million. Why would any team want to trade for a 4th line player in Moreau who makes 2.0 million a year. Along with what I have mentioned already, his skills are eroding fast, he has virtually no offesive skills. He's a liability on defence and he makes terrible decsions by taking bad penalities for the past 2 years. The only guy that makes this deal is Kevin Lowe and thank god he's not the GM anymore.

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#227 Crash
January 19 2010, 02:33PM
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Chris. wrote:

Ignoring real proplems and just hoping that Eberle will somehow score thirty next season is sexier than signing a guy like Vernon Fiddler.

No one is ignoring real problems....we all understand that there are real problems...no one is saying Eberle is going to come in and score 30 next year...in fact the only one who keeps saying that is you...

All I'm saying is that is the right moves are made between now and next year and Eberle, MPS and Hall are ready for the NHL then they should stay with the big club. Of course having room for all of them hinges on not having a complete team full of smurfs or soft players...Nilsson, POS, Pisani, Moreau, Pouliot, Cogliano, Stone would likely all have to be gone.

One thing is more than likely for certain, MPS will not play many if any games in the AHL...why would he? Why would he agree to that? So we will have to leave him in Europe or the KHL if we don't bring him in here. And if Hall plays in the AHL I believe he would be the 1st number one overall to play in the AHL in a long time so that's not very likely either...so that leaves Eberle.

So just how is Vern Fiddler doing this year anyway?

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#228 Archaeologuy
January 19 2010, 02:36PM
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@OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F

Your constant defense of a MacT is both insane and unrequired. No one brought him up except you.

You failed to link this year's failure to MacT's competence as a coach; And thus failed to link my belief that MacT was not right for the job to my inability to assess coaching.

Every time you claim to be right you do so without proving it in any way.

Let it go.

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#229 Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach
January 19 2010, 02:37PM
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Crash wrote:

No one is ignoring real problems....we all understand that there are real problems...no one is saying Eberle is going to come in and score 30 next year...in fact the only one who keeps saying that is you...

All I'm saying is that is the right moves are made between now and next year and Eberle, MPS and Hall are ready for the NHL then they should stay with the big club. Of course having room for all of them hinges on not having a complete team full of smurfs or soft players...Nilsson, POS, Pisani, Moreau, Pouliot, Cogliano, Stone would likely all have to be gone.

One thing is more than likely for certain, MPS will not play many if any games in the AHL...why would he? Why would he agree to that? So we will have to leave him in Europe or the KHL if we don't bring him in here. And if Hall plays in the AHL I believe he would be the 1st number one overall to play in the AHL in a long time so that's not very likely either...so that leaves Eberle.

So just how is Vern Fiddler doing this year anyway?

There have been quite a few comments that have stated that if Eberle is only a 30 goal scorer people would be fine with that. How high are expectations for this guy?

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#230 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
January 19 2010, 02:38PM
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Crash wrote:

45 pts from a role player? Heck we can't 45 points out of a player with a 5.5mil cap hit. You think that it's easy to go out and sign a player who will get 45 pts with the Oil for 1.5 mil? Seriously? 1.5mil? Curtis Glencross wouldn't sign here for 1.5mil

Ya, guys like Dominick Moore/Owen Nolan/Jason Williams/Rich Peverly/Bertuzzi/Cullen/Hagman/Lombardi etc etc have a decent shot at giving you 40 - 45 points.

If you want to get pickey we could drop down to the 35 point range, which when you factor in how many less goals they would cause would have been relatively as valuable over the last three years.

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#231 VK63
January 19 2010, 02:45PM
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Any fear that a "kid" gets an offer sheet? Or phrased differently, would this management wait long enough for someone else to set the price on an "untouchable"?

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#232 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
January 19 2010, 02:45PM
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Archaeologuy wrote:

Your constant defense of a MacT is both insane and unrequired. No one brought him up except you.

You failed to link this year's failure to MacT's competence as a coach; And thus failed to link my belief that MacT was not right for the job to my inability to assess coaching.

Every time you claim to be right you do so without proving it in any way.

Let it go.

Haha, quit changing the parameters .

I am not arguing:

"And thus failed to link my belief that MacT was not right for the job"

And you know that. My beef since day one was your non-sense claims of incomptence. Not whether he was right for the job or not.

How have I failed to link this years failure to MacT's competence as a coach? You'll never get a perfect comparison, you'll never have a team with 0 personal movement.

The team is SUBSTANTIALLY worse without him, that would lead any sane human beign to conclude that at the very least he did a competent job with what he had.

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#233 Crash
January 19 2010, 02:52PM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

Ya, guys like Dominick Moore/Owen Nolan/Jason Williams/Rich Peverly/Bertuzzi/Cullen/Hagman/Lombardi etc etc have a decent shot at giving you 40 - 45 points.

If you want to get pickey we could drop down to the 35 point range, which when you factor in how many less goals they would cause would have been relatively as valuable over the last three years.

Owen Nolan $2.75 mil, Rich Peverly was traded from Nashville to Atlanta and became a 45 point guy there, no way he signs for 1.5 mil on his next contract, Lombardi is at 2.35 mil...he will want a raise, Dominic Moore had one season of 41 pts and has only 16 pts this year in 38 games, Matt Cullen is at 2.8mil and on the downside of his career, Niklas Hagman is 3 mil.

The only one is Todd Bertuzzi and signing guys who are willing to sign for 1.5 mil is not going to guarantee you anything...signing older 1.5 mil guys here would be a huge gamble. And that is if we could even get someone decent to sign here for that.

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#234 Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach
January 19 2010, 02:53PM
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@Crash

Peverley was a waiver pickup and he signed a two year extension earlier in the year for 1.3mil a year.

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#235 Crash
January 19 2010, 02:57PM
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Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach wrote:

There have been quite a few comments that have stated that if Eberle is only a 30 goal scorer people would be fine with that. How high are expectations for this guy?

My guess would be that those that said that are talking about him becoming a 30 goal scorer down the road, not necessarily next season.

As far as expectations go...I don't have expectations...I am just encouraged by the talent of the kid, the leadership qualities that he is said to have that he is dominating in the WHL, that he average a point per game last year in his 9 games in the AHL and that he has shined on the world stage 2 yrs in a row. It likely bodes well sooner rather than later

And if he, MPS and Taylor Hall are all NHL ready I'd rather spend my money on watching them live than watching Vern Fiddler

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#236 Crash
January 19 2010, 03:00PM
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Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach wrote:

Peverley was a waiver pickup and he signed a two year extension earlier in the year for 1.3mil a year.

I stand corrected but wouldn't you say guys like Peverley who are sent to the waiver wire are not the norm?

Do us as fans really want to bring guys like Sykora back here? God I hope not.

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#237 Archaeologuy
January 19 2010, 03:00PM
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@OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F

Which brings me back to the fact that I already lightened my stance on MacT. So why are we going over this again?

Because you think that just because MacT wasnt the sole problem with the club last year (which I never once claimed) that Buchberger has a solid coaching resume?

Those two things arent connected at all.

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#238 Bucknuck
January 19 2010, 03:03PM
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I am fine with sending Eberle to the minors if there are players that could help the club just as much for a comparable price.

However. Eberle and MPS have both been playing other leagues. Just because they aren't in the AHL doesn't mean they were in the minors. MPs has been playing with men for two years and Eberle has been two years since being drafted and is dominating the WHL. He got 9 pts in 9 games with the AHL last year.

Something tells me that these "kids" will be better than half the regulars on the roster. IF that is the case, then they would be foolish not to play them.

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#239 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
January 19 2010, 03:04PM
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Crash wrote:

Owen Nolan $2.75 mil, Rich Peverly was traded from Nashville to Atlanta and became a 45 point guy there, no way he signs for 1.5 mil on his next contract, Lombardi is at 2.35 mil...he will want a raise, Dominic Moore had one season of 41 pts and has only 16 pts this year in 38 games, Matt Cullen is at 2.8mil and on the downside of his career, Niklas Hagman is 3 mil.

The only one is Todd Bertuzzi and signing guys who are willing to sign for 1.5 mil is not going to guarantee you anything...signing older 1.5 mil guys here would be a huge gamble. And that is if we could even get someone decent to sign here for that.

Like I said, drop it to 35 points if you like, your still likely to get equivalant GF vs GA.

Also, the majority of those guy sign for one... maybe two years, so theirs really no risk. If they don't work out you waive them (Sykora) and then bring in the rookie.

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#240 VMR
January 19 2010, 03:06PM
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Crash wrote:

45 pts from a role player? Heck we can't 45 points out of a player with a 5.5mil cap hit. You think that it's easy to go out and sign a player who will get 45 pts with the Oil for 1.5 mil? Seriously? 1.5mil? Curtis Glencross wouldn't sign here for 1.5mil

We never offered Glencross 1.5. He started the negotiate at 1.8 and the Oilers never got back to him, too busy chasing the dream of Hossa so he took 1.3 from Calgary. I bet we could have had him for the same but management screwed up.

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#241 Chris.
January 19 2010, 03:07PM
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@Crash

Post #206 was for you. Next season I want the Oilers to skate a balanced 23 man roster composed of grown men who shave. I want the talented children on the farm where they belong: developing, learning, growing, etc... Basically getting ready to step up and make an immediate impact in the event of injury. I want 3M in cap space and at least three empty spots on the fifty contract limit.

What I don't want is to see is Eberle devestated by injury (Like Bruule in Columbus); Chorney starting on defence before he's learned how properly defend at the pro level; or Omark in any capacity...

We just disagree.

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#242 Crash
January 19 2010, 03:08PM
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Archaeologuy wrote:

Which brings me back to the fact that I already lightened my stance on MacT. So why are we going over this again?

Because you think that just because MacT wasnt the sole problem with the club last year (which I never once claimed) that Buchberger has a solid coaching resume?

Those two things arent connected at all.

MacT wasn't the whole problem here but he was a problem that had to go and I for one am soooo glad he is gone it isn't even funny....

The team does have issues outside of him no doubt but now at least everyone on this team is held accountable...no free passes for Moreau anymore, or Horcoff either who has been called out by this coaching staff....there are no coaches pets on this team.

Having MacT gone will make it a whole lot easier to blow this thing up and build it right..IMO

Side note: MacT never had to deal with having both his top goaltender and top scorer out for most of the season.

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#243 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
January 19 2010, 03:08PM
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Archaeologuy wrote:

Which brings me back to the fact that I already lightened my stance on MacT. So why are we going over this again?

Because you think that just because MacT wasnt the sole problem with the club last year (which I never once claimed) that Buchberger has a solid coaching resume?

Those two things arent connected at all.

1. the fact that you lightend your stance now, doesn't mean you didn't have that stance last year.

2. The fact that you DID lighten your stance is essentially admitting you were wrong.

3. The fact that you were wrong about MacT being incomptent (self admitted as per point 2) points towards you being incapable of correctly evaluating coaching.

4. That fact that you are likely incapable of evaluating coaching (point 3) gives good reason to believe that you are incorrectly evaluating Bucky (or any other coach)

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#244 Crash
January 19 2010, 03:17PM
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Chris. wrote:

Post #206 was for you. Next season I want the Oilers to skate a balanced 23 man roster composed of grown men who shave. I want the talented children on the farm where they belong: developing, learning, growing, etc... Basically getting ready to step up and make an immediate impact in the event of injury. I want 3M in cap space and at least three empty spots on the fifty contract limit.

What I don't want is to see is Eberle devestated by injury (Like Bruule in Columbus); Chorney starting on defence before he's learned how properly defend at the pro level; or Omark in any capacity...

We just disagree.

I don't mind Eberle or any kid going to the farm but not if they are ready to help. There are numerous examples of players not going to the farm in many NHL cities, numerous...the farm isn't necessarily where they belong IMO to develop.

I read post 206 but it was too long for me to want to spend time responding to.

I don't want Eberle to be devastated by injury either but injuries happen in all leagues, not just the NHL.

Disagreeing is what this site is all about from what I've seen. I don't have a problem with that.

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#245 quicksilver ballet
January 19 2010, 03:19PM
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Chris. wrote:

Ignoring real proplems and just hoping that Eberle will somehow score thirty next season is sexier than signing a guy like Vernon Fiddler.

Whats wrong with Vernie Fiddler?

He'd love to come home and play in his hometown....you know how much booze Verns dad could buy with all that money.

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#246 Archaeologuy
January 19 2010, 03:21PM
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@OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F

I said I lightened my stance on the guy. That hardly makes my opinion of anything invalid, including MacT. He was still not a very good coach.

Your assumptions are way out to lunch. You cant say "well you changed your mind slightly once about issue A, therefore you cant possibly be right about issue B."

Start making sense please.

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#247 Steve
January 19 2010, 03:22PM
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Crash wrote:

I thought I had heard last night on the radio that Colorado was the youngest so thanks to you and Ogden Jr. for the correction...

The comentators said on the PPV Telecast that Colorado WAS the youngest Team in the NHL, so maybe they were accounting for injuries?

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#248 Costanza
January 19 2010, 03:23PM
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Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach wrote:

It is very possible and there are a few of us that have said it wouldn't take much to get us to that point.

The issue is our management from before and now have yet to show that they know how to adress these problems.

I'm a firm beleiver that we are only 2-3 trades and 2-3 ufa signings away from being a playoff team and that is without adding a first overall pick. That is also with adding a bigger top 6 player as the biggest acquistion.

If we are patient during UFA season you can get those player at a steep discount. Everyone wants the star but at 9 million bucks it doesn't leave much cash for the other things.

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#249 Chris.
January 19 2010, 03:23PM
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@Crash.

BTW: I don't know where you got it that I said Eberle will score thirty, or needs to score thirty or anything to do with that... I expect nothing from Eberle next year. Hyping prospects is the job of the Oiler spin masters.

Instead, I will monitor Eberle's progress with much interest; hoping for the best; because I want to see him do well. What I won't do; is start penciling him into the starting lineup for next season before we've even hit the trade deadline this season.

It will take some careful moves by management to pull this roster out of the sewer... simply handing the reigns over to some teenagers is a bit of a cop-out. Anyone can prematurely cash in on the future of the franchise to fill out their roster... it sure beats... you know... working...

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#250 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
January 19 2010, 03:25PM
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Archaeologuy wrote:

I said I lightened my stance on the guy. That hardly makes my opinion of anything invalid, including MacT. He was still not a very good coach.

Your assumptions are way out to lunch. You cant say "well you changed your mind slightly once about issue A, therefore you cant possibly be right about issue B."

Start making sense please.

I'm really shocked a guy that claims to be so highly educated is having so much trouble with this.

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