This Is Us

Lowetide
October 22 2010 07:36AM

Last night's Oilers game was an enjoyable one. Although the town team lost, most shifts gave fans an indication about things to come. Speed, skill, passes and dekes that showed the true beauty of the game. Buckle up, this is going to be a fast ride.  

This is us. A fun team to watch, run and gun--maybe a little shy on finishing the play--and high event at both ends of the ice. Hemsky stirs the drink, and the kids offer a hint about the future. If you measure this season in wins and losses bring out the Glenlivet now. Small steps, folks. And there were plenty last night.

Taylor Hall didn't have any finish last night but (as his coach said after the game) the kid had his best NHL game. Mark Spector wrote a nice piece here and I think we can feel pretty good about this team's future despite the loss on home ice. Hall was the most obvious youngster last night, but the other two rookie forwards had their strong moments too. Magnus Pääjärvi must certainly lead the league in penalties drawn after the Minny game, and Jordan Eberle continues to amaze with his anticipation and execution in all three zones. Big brain.

At this point we should hope the Oilers finally start Dubnyk and begin the final march toward making a decision on the backup goalie, and there's probably a slight hint of an opportunity for a switch-out along the blue (Strudwick in, likely Vandermeer out). I don't think there's any help coming via trade, at this point in the season teams will be asking the moon ("a battle ship for a rowboat"- a Punch Imlach line) for puck movers along the blue. I'd guess Petry or Belle would be the first option to upgrade the passing from the defense.

The 4th line is a mess, but I don't know that there's much they can do about it. Fraser needs to play until he's comfortable (Kurtis Foster settled in nicely last night, at least compared to previous performances) and Jones had played well until last night. I wonder a little about Zack Stortini, he seems to be getting less love from this coach than he did from his other two NHL coaches (HS opening night, no hesitation to staple his ass to the bench last night).

A wild guess has Dubnyk playing Saturday and Strudwick also drawing in. If there's a pool on this stuff, I'll bet they call up Shawn Belle when a goalie is finally sent packing.

C2a6955161684b5e3189319acfa5ebe4
Lowetide has been one of the Oilogosphere's shining lights for over a century. You can check him out here at OilersNation and at lowetide.ca. He is also the host of Lowdown with Lowetide weekday mornings 10-noon on TSN 1260.
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#151 C-DOG
October 22 2010, 09:11PM
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@Oilers89

Do you think it's a coincidence that the best players are usually the centres, no and that is what we have with the Oilers.

Phili did the same thing they gave away Simon Gagne instead of trading Jeff Carter.

Detroit told Hossa you play for 4 mil or we don't have room for you. They made sure Zett/Dats/Lid are the only players making big money, no champ has won with a winger making more than 5.1 mil cap hit in 5 years, that is not a fluke.

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#152 C-DOG
October 22 2010, 09:18PM
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I am going out I'll be back to give you people free lessons later, your lucky I don't charge you guys for this.

You better not go around telling your friends these are your ideas to make you look smart.

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#153 Oilers89
October 22 2010, 09:19PM
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@C-DOG

Phili probably did that because Jeff Carter is the better player, when it comes to the Blackhawks for example I would keep Kane over Sharp if they were faced with that decision. I agree that centres are important and are a big part of lots of teams that win a cup, but some of these examples that you have gave such as the Gagne Carter example are not really fair, in these examples they keep the better player because he is better at hockey not because he is a centre.

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#154 Archaeologuy
October 22 2010, 09:21PM
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@Oilers89

It makes things easy on Philly that Gagne (although supremely talented) is incredibly injury prone. Jeff Carter is all but assured to play more hockey than Gagne over the next 3 years.

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#155 Oilers89
October 22 2010, 09:23PM
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@Archaeologuy

You bet, I cannot disagree with that, I am just saying that it had nothing to do with Carter being a centre.

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#156 Archaeologuy
October 22 2010, 09:25PM
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@Oilers89

I'm not going to say it had nothing to do with that, but Carter's youth and health probably had a hell of a lot more to do with it. Being a Centre was likely the bottom of listed reasons for keeping Carter.

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#157 Oilers89
October 22 2010, 09:27PM
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@Archaeologuy

Agreed.

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#158 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
October 23 2010, 01:57AM
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C-DOG wrote:

Is the goal for the Oilers to be a good regular season team? Then there on their way, but if the stanley cup is the goal then they are very far from it.

Not 1 stanley cup champ has had a winger earn more than 5.1 mil.

Can't you see the differece in MVP success from the regular season and the playoffs 65% is 4 times greater than 14%, and there are twice as many wingers than centres , Hellooo am I talking to a wall here.

Listen man, I'll give you that if you have a C and W that are = in every facet you have to take the C.

The issue is the definitiveness of your argument. It is not "impossible" to win the cup if your top 1-2 or 6 players are wingers. And logistically, you cannot prove that it is.

Even though 14% is low for PO MVP it is still greater then 0%. Wingers have in fact led their teams to the Cup, and the will again in the future.

Save for "fluke" teams (Canes from a few years ago are probably close to that) you are going to need 1-3 elite players and another 3-5 very good players to win the cup.

Thinking 3-5 years down the road (assuming all.. or at least most of the top young players under 25 on the team and in the system pan out), we'll probably need another 2-3 very good to elite players to become a serious threat.

The issues isn't where our current (potential) high end players line up, it's how many more we'll need.

Howevere, we're set at wing, we need some help down the middle, on D and in G.

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#159 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
October 23 2010, 02:01AM
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C-DOG wrote:

Yes, the odds are better probobly 2 to 1, so why don't wingers lead teams without #1 centres once every 3 years, because you build up the middle, ask any successful G.M.

My whole point about this is regarding the Oilers, if they don't upgrade Gagne and Whitney they have no hope in hell of winning a championship because 20-25 teams have those players like you stated, if there are so many and you don't have one what does that say, you still never even answered that question.

"if there are so many and you don't have one what does that say, you still never even answered that question."

It says you are weak down the middle, but again to be relavant you have to assume that you HAVE to have a 20-25 C to win a cup.

Either way though, I think Gagner will slot nicely in that 10 - 25 range so I think we'll be ok their, what I'd like to see is a real strong 2C and a couple 1st pairing D.(though I'd be even happier with a top 10 C and then Gagner as a great 2C)

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#160 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
October 23 2010, 02:05AM
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C-DOG wrote:

Do you think it's a coincidence that the best players are usually the centres, no and that is what we have with the Oilers.

Phili did the same thing they gave away Simon Gagne instead of trading Jeff Carter.

Detroit told Hossa you play for 4 mil or we don't have room for you. They made sure Zett/Dats/Lid are the only players making big money, no champ has won with a winger making more than 5.1 mil cap hit in 5 years, that is not a fluke.

St Louis had a cap hit of 5.25

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#161 VK63
October 23 2010, 08:29AM
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Personally I dont measure in wins and losses but I need no excuse what so ever to break out the Glenlivet. Pretty much.... hey they sang the anthem... woohooo.... Ill have a wee nip.

It was a great game.... good vibe in the barn again.... positives and up arrows aplenty

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#162 speeds
October 23 2010, 08:30AM
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C-DOG wrote:

Do you think it's a coincidence that the best players are usually the centres, no and that is what we have with the Oilers.

Phili did the same thing they gave away Simon Gagne instead of trading Jeff Carter.

Detroit told Hossa you play for 4 mil or we don't have room for you. They made sure Zett/Dats/Lid are the only players making big money, no champ has won with a winger making more than 5.1 mil cap hit in 5 years, that is not a fluke.

I don't know if it's a fluke, but WSH was as good a team as anyone last year and they were able to get that even with a LW having a 9.6 cap hit. Granted, they didn't win, and it's not like you can expect any of EDM's wingers to become as good as Ovechkin.

However, the best team doesn't always win, WSH badly outplayed MON and I don't think there's anything about their team make-up that will prevent them from winning a Cup - they just haven't so far; they are good enough to do so.

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#163 C-DOG
October 23 2010, 11:01AM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

Listen man, I'll give you that if you have a C and W that are = in every facet you have to take the C.

The issue is the definitiveness of your argument. It is not "impossible" to win the cup if your top 1-2 or 6 players are wingers. And logistically, you cannot prove that it is.

Even though 14% is low for PO MVP it is still greater then 0%. Wingers have in fact led their teams to the Cup, and the will again in the future.

Save for "fluke" teams (Canes from a few years ago are probably close to that) you are going to need 1-3 elite players and another 3-5 very good players to win the cup.

Thinking 3-5 years down the road (assuming all.. or at least most of the top young players under 25 on the team and in the system pan out), we'll probably need another 2-3 very good to elite players to become a serious threat.

The issues isn't where our current (potential) high end players line up, it's how many more we'll need.

Howevere, we're set at wing, we need some help down the middle, on D and in G.

It is proven, no team has ever won with it's best 2-6 players being wingers, ever is absoloute.

Canes were not a fluke, Staal led in scoring , Brinda'mour was a 70 point player and selke nominne and Ward was conn smythe.

A winger can lead and win the conn smythe ,but the teams core absoloutely has to be in the middle, FACTS a team has NEVER won with the core being wingers, never is absoloute.

Yes , they are set on the wings, but thats is the least important of all positions, not meaningless but least important.

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#164 C-DOG
October 23 2010, 11:07AM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

St Louis had a cap hit of 5.25

I said in 5 years meaning salary cap era, St louis never had a cap hit in 04', there wasn't a cap.

Thats alarming, considering when/if this team becomes elite they might have up to 5 wingers making 5 mil+, Facts you cannot ignore more now than ever before, and even before without a cap wingers were never the core of champions.

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#165 C-DOG
October 23 2010, 11:43AM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

"if there are so many and you don't have one what does that say, you still never even answered that question."

It says you are weak down the middle, but again to be relavant you have to assume that you HAVE to have a 20-25 C to win a cup.

Either way though, I think Gagner will slot nicely in that 10 - 25 range so I think we'll be ok their, what I'd like to see is a real strong 2C and a couple 1st pairing D.(though I'd be even happier with a top 10 C and then Gagner as a great 2C)

If your centre ranks around 20-25 and don't beleive Gagne ever will , you will need 2 unless your D is awsome.

Toews, sharp,B.Richards,Ribero,Zetterberg, Datsyuk,Kopitar,Stasney,Dushene,Sedin,Kessler, Koivu,Getzlaf,Thornton,Pavelski,Marleau,Stamkos,Lecvalier,Tavares,Crosby,Malkin,Staal,Kreichi, Bergeron, Savard,Backstrom,Plakanic,Gomez,Staal, B. Sutter,M.Richards,Carter,Giroux,Briere,Spezza,Fisher,Arnott, Zajac,Connaly, Roy,Weiss, are all better centres than Gagne salary cap aside, eventually he will have a bigger cap hit if? he pans out like you think, thats 41 of them. Not all play centre because some are moved to the wing to add balance to stacked teams in the middle, but are natural centres if they were on the oilers.

Then you have centres that are in the same ballpark as him and some that will pass him. Kadri,Grabovski,Bozak,Bailey,Seguin, fleishman,Skinner,E. Kane,Little,Anisimov,Stepan,Bolland, benn,Stajan,Fillpula,Colin Wilson,Lombardi,Schen,Macdonald,Brassard ,Umberger,Vermette,Cotoure, thats another 23 were he might?? rank in the middle of.

Some of the 41 will eventually slow down or retire, but some younger ones will step up and replace them, Again, in my OPINION At best 2nd liner, which isn't an insult, just reality.

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#166 C-DOG
October 23 2010, 12:02PM
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Oilers89 wrote:

Phili probably did that because Jeff Carter is the better player, when it comes to the Blackhawks for example I would keep Kane over Sharp if they were faced with that decision. I agree that centres are important and are a big part of lots of teams that win a cup, but some of these examples that you have gave such as the Gagne Carter example are not really fair, in these examples they keep the better player because he is better at hockey not because he is a centre.

Carter and Gagne have similar #'s and yes Gagne is injury prone, but think of what they could of got for Carter a #1 Centre, but they chose to give away Gagne.

As for Sharp or Kane, you cant compare them, it's 1st line vs 1st line and 2nd vs 2nd, 3rd vs 3rd, they chose Sharp over Byfuglien, Bolland over Ladd and Versteeg, centres. If they had to chose Toews or kane I think they choose Toews, so would most teams. This is the Detroit philosiphy, Detroit, has Zet/Dat making over six, every other winger makes less than 4 mil, Chicago beleives in building up the middle first just like Detroit and thats were Scotty Bowman came from, Hossa is an elite player, but they made sure his cap hit was manageable, Yes Kane is 6.5 but he is the 1st pick, still young and helps that org of the ice as much as on the ice.I have no problem with that.

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#167 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
October 23 2010, 12:08PM
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C-DOG wrote:

It is proven, no team has ever won with it's best 2-6 players being wingers, ever is absoloute.

Canes were not a fluke, Staal led in scoring , Brinda'mour was a 70 point player and selke nominne and Ward was conn smythe.

A winger can lead and win the conn smythe ,but the teams core absoloutely has to be in the middle, FACTS a team has NEVER won with the core being wingers, never is absoloute.

Yes , they are set on the wings, but thats is the least important of all positions, not meaningless but least important.

I'm not exactly sure why you can't wrap your thick skull around this, but just because something hasn't happend in the past, doesn't mean it can't ever happen.

Again I'll go back to some basic math that you can't seem to grasp. How many teams best player is a winger? 5? 6? how many teams 2 best players are wingers? I'd guess zero.

Shocking that their isn't a long list of cup winners who's 2-6 best players were wingers

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#168 C-DOG
October 23 2010, 12:09PM
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speeds wrote:

I don't know if it's a fluke, but WSH was as good a team as anyone last year and they were able to get that even with a LW having a 9.6 cap hit. Granted, they didn't win, and it's not like you can expect any of EDM's wingers to become as good as Ovechkin.

However, the best team doesn't always win, WSH badly outplayed MON and I don't think there's anything about their team make-up that will prevent them from winning a Cup - they just haven't so far; they are good enough to do so.

Washington is a great team but when you factor in 16 mil to 2 wingers and that M.Green is a one dimentional player stuck in a wingers body,there is a lot of concerne for playoff style Hockey, don't forget they never made the playoffs untill Backstrom arived centre, Alzner/Carlson will need to step up big time for them to win the cup, and probobly alocate Semins 6 mill elsewhere, and hopefully Mac-T as there coach, I had to throw that in there, I like Mac-T.

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#169 C-DOG
October 23 2010, 12:14PM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

I'm not exactly sure why you can't wrap your thick skull around this, but just because something hasn't happend in the past, doesn't mean it can't ever happen.

Again I'll go back to some basic math that you can't seem to grasp. How many teams best player is a winger? 5? 6? how many teams 2 best players are wingers? I'd guess zero.

Shocking that their isn't a long list of cup winners who's 2-6 best players were wingers

Yes, technically it can, But I would never play those odds.

Did you watch oilchange, and did I hear corectly that the Oilers could of had the 4th overall pick for Eberle and they said no!!.

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#170 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
October 23 2010, 12:25PM
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C-DOG wrote:

Yes, technically it can, But I would never play those odds.

Did you watch oilchange, and did I hear corectly that the Oilers could of had the 4th overall pick for Eberle and they said no!!.

Only caught the last 15 minutes. Sounds kind of hard to believe.

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#171 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
October 23 2010, 12:38PM
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Some Gagner/Center facts:

Last year their were 51 centers (40+ games) that scored at a higher PPG clip then Ganger.

Only 6 were 22 or younger

Crosby 1st overall

Backstrom 4th overall

Stamkos 1st overall

Toews 3rd overall

Duchene 3rd overall

Tavares 1st overall

So almost 90% were 2+ years older then he was

Of those, only Stamkos, Duchene and Tavares are younger then Gagner.

So only 6% were as young or younger.

Their were only 6 more between 22 and 24 last year.

So 39 of the 51 (76%) centers with a higher PPG were 25+

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#172 Oilers89
October 23 2010, 12:42PM
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@C-DOG

I would say no too, Eberle plays a excellent 2-way game, he is the kind of player that you rarely find, one that does play both ends of the ice very well and at such a young age. He basically plays like a centre the only thing he doesn't do is take draws.

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#173 C-DOG
October 23 2010, 12:44PM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

Only caught the last 15 minutes. Sounds kind of hard to believe.

The whole episode is on their website, I think I heard right, to pass on Fowler,Johansen, Skinner is insane.

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#174 C-DOG
October 23 2010, 12:51PM
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Oilers89 wrote:

I would say no too, Eberle plays a excellent 2-way game, he is the kind of player that you rarely find, one that does play both ends of the ice very well and at such a young age. He basically plays like a centre the only thing he doesn't do is take draws.

Centre is more than taking draws, I love Eberle way more than Gagne but I still would of done for the simple reason of balance through out the line up, Skinner's 17 year old season crushed Eberle's he also scored 20 goals in 20 playoff games 70 total!! He also has amazing core strength for his age, he trained all summer with G Roberts, the same trainer that helped turn around Stamkos's rookie year not the firing of Melrose, Johansen 6'3" centre , Fowler 6'2" d-man that leads Anaheim in ice time with Vish.

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#175 C-DOG
October 23 2010, 01:00PM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

Some Gagner/Center facts:

Last year their were 51 centers (40+ games) that scored at a higher PPG clip then Ganger.

Only 6 were 22 or younger

Crosby 1st overall

Backstrom 4th overall

Stamkos 1st overall

Toews 3rd overall

Duchene 3rd overall

Tavares 1st overall

So almost 90% were 2+ years older then he was

Of those, only Stamkos, Duchene and Tavares are younger then Gagner.

So only 6% were as young or younger.

Their were only 6 more between 22 and 24 last year.

So 39 of the 51 (76%) centers with a higher PPG were 25+

I don't put as much stock in age as you do, because I think he will peak early in his career, maybee not yet but not far to go because he has basically weighed the same for 4 years, I factor in expierence and overall game/size/speed, p.p #'s are squed on a bad team with extra opp, that being said 51 better centres actually sounds about right 2nd line at best , plus there are many up and comers that will pass him that I didn't include in the 41.

Those #'s reafirm my position on him but of course time will only tell as we are on different sides of the spectrum with him.

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#176 C-DOG
October 23 2010, 01:01PM
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I'm taking my son to his hockey game, I will be back to chat later.

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#177 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
October 23 2010, 01:07PM
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C-DOG wrote:

I don't put as much stock in age as you do, because I think he will peak early in his career, maybee not yet but not far to go because he has basically weighed the same for 4 years, I factor in expierence and overall game/size/speed, p.p #'s are squed on a bad team with extra opp, that being said 51 better centres actually sounds about right 2nd line at best , plus there are many up and comers that will pass him that I didn't include in the 41.

Those #'s reafirm my position on him but of course time will only tell as we are on different sides of the spectrum with him.

Well the gap in age (and how few high end centers their are under 25) also tells us that the majority of the guys ahead of him will also either be out of the leauge or well into the downside of their career by the time Gagner (should be) fullying hitting his stride)

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#178 Oilers89
October 23 2010, 01:08PM
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C-DOG wrote:

Centre is more than taking draws, I love Eberle way more than Gagne but I still would of done for the simple reason of balance through out the line up, Skinner's 17 year old season crushed Eberle's he also scored 20 goals in 20 playoff games 70 total!! He also has amazing core strength for his age, he trained all summer with G Roberts, the same trainer that helped turn around Stamkos's rookie year not the firing of Melrose, Johansen 6'3" centre , Fowler 6'2" d-man that leads Anaheim in ice time with Vish.

I don't trust trading a player that has improved as much as Eberle for a player that you could draft and for all you know they bust, injuries play a huge part and with Eberle's lack of injuries and improvement I feel he is the safer bet. I can see how you want a big centre, add balance, etc, but not all good junior players ever live up to what people thought they would be. For example Cody Hodgson, he could still end up being a player but for now he has taken a massive step backwards due to injury, and I don't think anyone would take Hodgson over Eberle now. This is not to say that Eberle is immune to injuries but he does have a good track record.

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#179 Wax Man Riley
October 23 2010, 01:13PM
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Oilers89 wrote:

I would say no too, Eberle plays a excellent 2-way game, he is the kind of player that you rarely find, one that does play both ends of the ice very well and at such a young age. He basically plays like a centre the only thing he doesn't do is take draws.

......yet

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#180 Oilers89
October 23 2010, 01:16PM
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@Wax Man Riley

No kidding, I could see that happening.

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#181 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
October 23 2010, 01:28PM
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Ok, so 26 of the 51 are 27 or older (so more then half). I think it's safe to assume most of those guys will either be out of the league or quickly hitting the downside of their careers.

Support that their wont be a bunch of 32+ guys (27+ year old guys today 5 years from now) still amoungst the top of the center heap:

Of the current top 30 PPG centers, only 2 are 32+.

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#182 C-DOG
October 23 2010, 04:28PM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

Ok, so 26 of the 51 are 27 or older (so more then half). I think it's safe to assume most of those guys will either be out of the league or quickly hitting the downside of their careers.

Support that their wont be a bunch of 32+ guys (27+ year old guys today 5 years from now) still amoungst the top of the center heap:

Of the current top 30 PPG centers, only 2 are 32+.

Gagne will max out just like Comrie at an early age as I have always stated that, considering only 2 are over 32, and with every year young stars are coming along, those #'s still look about right, just like I am assuming Gagne will max out early, you are assuming that others will decline soon and not enough will come along to pass him, Stamkos,Toews,Backstrom, Crosby, Malkin etc... will all max out before 25, Players are coming into the league bigger and stronger than ever before, they all have personal trainers and strength and conditioning coaches, Gagne by the end of next year will be as good as he ever will be and will always be the 3rd best player on his line be it the 1st or 2nd line, that is not acceptable in my view or historys view, so as of today he's arguably a top 50 centre. Which translates as a 2nd line centre on one of the 10 worst teams in hockey, hardly anything to get your hopes up about,but if you want to beleive it go ahead thats what fans are suppose to do beleive in their team regardless of reality, just like Cub's fans, but don't think you have anything of significance to prove otherwise.

Imagine if the Oilers had a #1 centre last year and Gagne never got as much p.p were would he rank top 60 in your stats. And those #'s are flattering considering their p.p sucked, which means if he's on your p.p you need a serious upgrade, nothing points to him being an elite player , nothing.

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#183 C-DOG
October 23 2010, 04:46PM
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Oilers89 wrote:

I don't trust trading a player that has improved as much as Eberle for a player that you could draft and for all you know they bust, injuries play a huge part and with Eberle's lack of injuries and improvement I feel he is the safer bet. I can see how you want a big centre, add balance, etc, but not all good junior players ever live up to what people thought they would be. For example Cody Hodgson, he could still end up being a player but for now he has taken a massive step backwards due to injury, and I don't think anyone would take Hodgson over Eberle now. This is not to say that Eberle is immune to injuries but he does have a good track record.

You can't ever assume injuries to healthy players, Eberle is not proven at the nhl level either, and Hodgsen was the 10th pick not the 4th, and how many prospects have had career threatining injuries before playing in the nhl, very rare.

Sooner or later they need to get more balance and the 4th pick could of fell into their lap for a 22nd pick. No one will ever trade you a #1 centre who is established unless his name is Mike O,connell who is now fired.

Look at Heatly, Hossa, Kovalchuck, 3 franchise wingers a max of 3 teams tried to sign each one of them, now imagine if Getzlaf, Datsyuk, Toews... etc became avail, at least 20 teams would line up for there sercvices, gm's don't want to give wingers large cap hits, but will for centres and D-men. Yes I don't have official proof because #1 centres never get to ufa status, but I am sure you would agree teams would line up for those centres. Heck look how stupid teams got for Briere,Gomez,Drury.

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#184 C-DOG
October 23 2010, 04:50PM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

Ok, so 26 of the 51 are 27 or older (so more then half). I think it's safe to assume most of those guys will either be out of the league or quickly hitting the downside of their careers.

Support that their wont be a bunch of 32+ guys (27+ year old guys today 5 years from now) still amoungst the top of the center heap:

Of the current top 30 PPG centers, only 2 are 32+.

In 5-7 years ther will be just as many that develop and get drafted as there will be players that drop off and most of these players will still be great untill at least 33-34 and they will still be better than Gagne.He is not geneticaly gifted and will be passed a lot sooner than you think and will eventualy be playing on the wing just like MC.

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#185 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
October 23 2010, 05:09PM
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C-DOG wrote:

In 5-7 years ther will be just as many that develop and get drafted as there will be players that drop off and most of these players will still be great untill at least 33-34 and they will still be better than Gagne.He is not geneticaly gifted and will be passed a lot sooner than you think and will eventualy be playing on the wing just like MC.

Funny you mention Comrie, he's actually been playing center and Malkin has been on his wing.

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#186 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
October 23 2010, 05:11PM
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C-DOG wrote:

Gagne will max out just like Comrie at an early age as I have always stated that, considering only 2 are over 32, and with every year young stars are coming along, those #'s still look about right, just like I am assuming Gagne will max out early, you are assuming that others will decline soon and not enough will come along to pass him, Stamkos,Toews,Backstrom, Crosby, Malkin etc... will all max out before 25, Players are coming into the league bigger and stronger than ever before, they all have personal trainers and strength and conditioning coaches, Gagne by the end of next year will be as good as he ever will be and will always be the 3rd best player on his line be it the 1st or 2nd line, that is not acceptable in my view or historys view, so as of today he's arguably a top 50 centre. Which translates as a 2nd line centre on one of the 10 worst teams in hockey, hardly anything to get your hopes up about,but if you want to beleive it go ahead thats what fans are suppose to do beleive in their team regardless of reality, just like Cub's fans, but don't think you have anything of significance to prove otherwise.

Imagine if the Oilers had a #1 centre last year and Gagne never got as much p.p were would he rank top 60 in your stats. And those #'s are flattering considering their p.p sucked, which means if he's on your p.p you need a serious upgrade, nothing points to him being an elite player , nothing.

So in other words a guy that just turned 21 wont get better. Ridiculous.

Like you said, it's possible, but I wouldn't bet on it.

and actually alot points to being a very good player (I wont say elite). All you have to do is look at the players that produced at his level as a teenager.

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#187 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
October 23 2010, 05:22PM
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C-DOG wrote:

In 5-7 years ther will be just as many that develop and get drafted as there will be players that drop off and most of these players will still be great untill at least 33-34 and they will still be better than Gagne.He is not geneticaly gifted and will be passed a lot sooner than you think and will eventualy be playing on the wing just like MC.

You sure like to pretend your opinion is fact.

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#188 C-DOG
October 23 2010, 06:23PM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

So in other words a guy that just turned 21 wont get better. Ridiculous.

Like you said, it's possible, but I wouldn't bet on it.

and actually alot points to being a very good player (I wont say elite). All you have to do is look at the players that produced at his level as a teenager.

No, I said by the end of next year will probobly be his max potential.

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#189 C-DOG
October 23 2010, 06:26PM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

Funny you mention Comrie, he's actually been playing center and Malkin has been on his wing.

That's only util Staal comes back, they want Malkin to try and get comortable there and not move him him back and forth, and it is also to help Staal, Comrie won't be there for long, I guaretee it! and will remind you of it later.

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#190 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
October 23 2010, 06:45PM
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C-DOG wrote:

No, I said by the end of next year will probobly be his max potential.

Hmmm, that's at least approaching fair. I'd probably give him 2 more years, to age 23.

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