Track Record
Lowetide
November 03 2010 06:11PM
The Edmonton Oilers have been out of balance since TC 2006-07. In fact, the one time in the last ten years that the team boasted a veteran goalie, quality top 6 blue with a range of skills and a strong group at forward the team made the SCF's. If they know the template, why can't they repeat it? Is the pursuit of a lottery pick dependent on the thin blue line and lack of penalty kill?
After the Stanley run, the organization has experienced long stretches without entire player-types. Important items like two-way veteran wingers, actual NHL goaltenders, faceoff men and penalty-killers. If an organization is devoid of one thing, they usually make an effort to address it the following summer.
This past summer, I suggested the club had very specific needs:
- At least two of the small forwards will be gone (I'd guess Nilsson and O'Sullivan).
- Moreau is flushed.
- Sheldon Souray will be traded for a lesser defenseman.
- A veteran RH center comes to town and settles the middle up front.
- They bring in a big winger with some skill (possibly the new Isbister).
- They sign one of those monsters Stauffer is always talking about on his show.
- Oilers will deal one of the young goalies (I hope they keep DD).
It should be mentioned these items didn't require any special skill to identify, many smarter than me were pointing out the the same thing. Let's tackle these one at a time:
- At least two of the small forwards will be gone (I'd guess Nilsson and O'Sullivan). On June 30th, the Oilers bought out Nilsson and dealt O'Sullivan to Phoenix). The club also decided to pass on the idea of signing Mike Comrie for another season.
- Moreau is flushed. On June 30th, the Oilers lost Moreau to the Blue Jackets on waivers. It saved them over a million of buyout money.
- Sheldon Souray will be traded for a lesser defenseman. That didn't happen, but the organization did erase him from the roster by asking him away from training camp. The deal is still out there in the ether. The club did add Kurtis Foster and Jim Vandermeer to the blue, and re-signed Jason Strudwick.
- A veteran RH center comes to town and settles the middle up front. On June 23, the Oilers acquired Colin Fraser from Chicago for a 6th round draft pick. Although not a right-handed C, Fraser did PK in Chicago (17.8% of his overall time on ice was PK). He's being used heavily in that role with Edmonton (33.8% of his overall playing time).
- They bring in a big winger with some skill (possibly the new Isbister). I think the Oilers might be thinking Ryan Jones is a candidate to fill this role, or possibly they decided to clear the decks for the kids. Either way, no Coke Machines were acquired for the big league roster over the summer.
- They sign one of those monsters Stauffer is always talking about on his show. The team did in fact sign Steve MacIntyre and he is the enforcer for this Edmonton Oilers team.
- Oilers will deal one of the young goalies (I hope they keep DD). The Oilers finally made a decision this past week, sending JDD to the farm where he is likely to stay (barring injury) until he reaches free agency next summer.
So, what can we gather from the season's first 10 games? Two things, both aided by the recent Oil Change 2.0 episode on tsn.
- The Oilers did in fact attempt to address need this past summer (Malhotra, Souray trade attempt, additions of Foster and Fraser).
- Those changes have not turned out as planned thus far and the responsibility falls on Steve Tambellini.
So, when we're talking about the horrible PK, we need to be very specific about the problem. The penalty kill is awful, but we can't accuse Steve Tambellini of inertia. He did in fact attempt to address the issue, but the results have been poor. Sooner or later, he's going to have to address the PK (and the blue) again or leave it for the next man in line.
Tomorrow is promised to Taylor Hall and the other kids, but not to Steve Tambellini. It's a harsh business.
No way in 1,000,000,000 years that Pittsburgh considers that trade....
Because Staal is a UFA in 2 1/2 years, and will probobly want a bigger role if the Malkin on the wing expierement doesn't pan out.
It also gets rid of Kunitz 3.75 mil cap hit for more traditionaly skilled players, which they badly need, Penner would probobly be excited to go to that type of team. Crosby and Malkin would have a skilled player to play with instead of pluggers like Dupious, Kunitz, Talbot, Kennedy,Cooke etc...
If Penner & Gagne can't get a legit #2 centre than what does that say about there value around the league.
Both teams would equaly benefit, or trade Hemsky+ for Staal.
We all have to remember that the goal this year is to get the young forwards and Peckham as much playing time as possible regardless of the results.
That being said, I would not be surprised if the Oilers go on a run later in the season and start to beat opponents like Vancouver once the team starts to gel and the rookies get more experience. I am not saying the team will make the playoffs, but I would not be surprised if they have a few good streaks in the second half of the season as things come together (barring injuries or trades of key contributors). The only issue is whether they will win enough to drop out of a top 3 pick contention.
One thing that's different than all of those other years is it seems we now have a coach who has actually experimented with using his most skilled players on the PK.
He has tried out Hemsky on the PK this year in spurts. He has lined up alongside Gagner and more recently, Penner.
I'm not sure where you'd find the stat but I'm almost certain that Hemsky has not been scored on yet in a short handed situation. Actually him and Penner seem to be a very good tandem while on the PK.
Yes Tambellini has changed out all the personnel and fired two coaches but up until this year the PK players have virtually remained the same.
Horcoff, Moreau, Pisani and then a different mixture of 3rd and 4th line guys. This is the first year that an Oilers coach has adopted the same strategy as many of the leagues top coaches by using some of his better skill guys for the PK on occasion.
It could be we're finding out this year that Hemsky should have been killing penalties all along.
Jordan Staal has never had a 50 point season and has played 4 years, Gagne has already had as many 40 point seasons as Staal(3), Staal is more valueble but Penner is a 30 goal scorer and is better than Kunitz and is a better fit,he would do that even easier along side Crosby.
I am one of the few that beleives in Penner, once you accept his personality as a gentle giant and not a big body that should fight, you will realize that he's a good player and uses his size in a skilled way. 30 goal scorers don't fall out of trees.
I still wish the Oilers didn't do the offer sheet though.
I agree, in the Canucks game the Oil in the first played bad and got scored against 3 times (I do believe two pk goals against) and that put them pretty far back. The next two periods the Oil controlled the tempo and for the most part dominated, this team I believe is showing that they are better than we think they are, we just need better special teams and for the goalie to play better.
Agreed about the offer sheet; but I believe the frustration over Penner is what he COULD be, not what he is... Penner has shown that he COULD be better than he is and probably would be capable of a 40 goal season if he had a more aggressive, in your face personality.
Penner doesn't have the foot speed to play wing with either Crosby or Malkin... Gagner would then need to be slotted into a 3rd line role, which he isn't suited for either... The trade simply doesn't make sense from Pittsburgh's standpoint.. If we're talking about Staal, who is a good center who could kill penalties, you're probably talking about putting Hemsky on the table... He'd be a better fit for the Pens than Penner or Gagner would...
No way the Kings let Stoll go, they will sign him. They have probably the best PK in the League plus he's been hitting the scoreboard quite well as of late. I still say make a trade for Hickey and Muzzin for Cogs, and Penner.
@ Crash
I've got to take you off ignore for a minute here because you've said this about 8,000 times:
"This is the first year that an Oilers coach has adopted the same strategy as *many of the leagues top coaches* by using some of his better skill guys for the PK on occasion"
Yet you never support that position.
The "skill guys" that see PK time are widely considerd top *2 way* forwards, not simply *Skilled forwards*
In the top 60 PK TOI/game guys, most would consider the following offensive forwards
Mike Richards at 28th
Claude Giroux at 29th
Saku Koivu at 52nd
Johnathen Toews at 54th
Jamie Langenbruner at 55th
Alfredson at 56th
Pavelski at 59th
With the exception of Giroux and maybe Pavelski all of those guys are well known for their strong 3 way play. The names at the top of the list are guys like Marchant, Betts, Rowe, Madden and Fiddler. Not exactly offensive powerhouses. As for the top coaches argument. The Jack Adams finalist for the last few years and their top 4 PK'ing forwards were:
2010
Tippet: Fidler 3:05/Winnik 3:04/Hanzel 2:06/Korpisky 1:53
Trotz: Smithson 2:12/Ward 1:56/Legwand 1:53/Spalling 1:43
Sacco: Giliard 3:01/O'rielly 2:54/Jones 2:07/Yelle 2:05
2009
Mclellen: Marleau 2:33/Grier 2:29/Pavalski 2:13/Moen 1:59
Murray: Mclement 3:50/Stastny 2:34/Hinote 2:32/Porter 2:11
Julien: Axelson 3:13/Metropolite 2:49/Kobasew 2:17/Sturm 2:09
2008
Boudreau: Gordon 4:00/Steckle 3:46/Lang 2:50/Laich 2:36
Carbonneau: Begin 2:14/Chipchura 1:53/Smolinski 1:51/Kostopolous 1:38
Babcock: Draper 2:43/Maltby 2:21/Zetterberg 2:09/Maltby 2:06
Other then a few names, almost ever player above is a traditional 3rd or 4th line "plug". I would assume this is because, for the most part, top teams have the personal to ice real PK'ers. Now, that said, I'm not opposed to playing skilled players on the PK. I think Penner is very solid deffensively and Hemsky and Eberle have both looked intriguing out there... however, it's a pretty big stretch to keep claiming the top coaches are playing their top players on the PK.
I think there's more of us than you might think that believe in Penner. The consistent stats that he puts up year after year don't happen by accident.
I agree with you that people need to realize that Penner is not and never will be this big mean snarky power forward. So get over that and notice all of the positive things he brings. You are bang on, Penner does use his size in a skill way. He uses his reach to knock pucks away from opposition as well. He's almost always wins the battles in the corners and gets the puck to teammates. He makes skill passes and he freakin' scores goals. To top it off he always has good +/- numbers.
All of these consistent numbers don't happen accidentally. All of a sudden too the Cogliano/Brule line is starting to score. Is it coincidence that they seem to have picked it up since having Penner put on their line?
I do wish people would lay off Penner...he's just fine... is he perfect? No he's not, but he's far from a disaster. He creates offense, scores goals, is a pretty good PKer and is one of the few on the team that consistently goes to the front of the net to screen the oppostions tender.
Yes, we've tried different forwards on the PK for awhile and the results have been largely similar. Makes me think that defense and/or goaltending may be a bigger problem on the PK than the forwards.
Because a good one dimentional 1st line winger is = to a great 2nd line centre + they would be dealing from depth. You have to give something to get...
I don't think anyone is suggesting to trade Hemsky, or at least I'm not... I simply don't think you'd be able to get a Jordan Staal on this team without putting your best player on the table..
Agreed that there is a huge need for a franchise center, but I don't think we'd need a 'franchise goalie'... I'd rather see the Oil shore up their 'd' instead... We have Roy who's progressing nicely and so far Dubnyk hasn't shown that he's out of place...
I think Pitt would play Gagne on the wing, and Penner hasn't had any problem keeping up with Cog's, Brule & Hemsky.
But Yes, Hemsky would be a better fit because all of Pitt's skilled forwards are left shots. Only problem with Hemsky is he likes to carry the puck a lot and doesn't give and go enough. Crosby and Malkin like to carry the puck, so that might be a problem.
Stall playing with wingers like MP TH JE etc.. would be a great 2 way 2nd line centre with size p.k ability and selke potential.
Brind'amour, Macdonald , Zetterberg or Datsyuk ,Malkin or Crosby depends which you consider to be the 2nd line centre and Sharp were the 2nd line centres for the 5 cup champs in the salary cap era making around 4 mill as second line centres. and the cap was lower in all of those seasons.
Translation great for hockey and salary cap reasons.
How much of the goaltending is on the bad D.
Goalie is the last position you aquire in a rebuild all a great goalie would do is ruin a draft position.
I am not saying I want a bad goalie just a decent 1 so the players can at least be in games more often than not, goalies are the easiest position to aquire as long as you are not Ottawa or Phili.
Boy when you take me off ignore you really go big...ok look.
I never said not to use 2nd, 3rd, 4th liners on the PK...of course you have to give them some of your PK minutes because your top end skill guys are still going to see significant minutes at EV strength plus PP. Having said that there are many, many top end 1st and 2nd line players getting a pretty decent amount of PK minutes. It seems to me many of the best coaches get their top end skill guys on the PK. I'm thinking it's for a couple of reasons. One, why wouldn't you use your smartest players in all situations and two, you don't want your top end players sitting on the bench for long stretches of time. The Oilers over the years have refused to do this.
All we've heard about the Oilers over the past few years is how bad their penalty kill has been. But yet the Oilers coaches have trotted out the same guys with the majority of the minutes over this time with the same success rate. Check it out, the same forwards at the top of the minutes played and your beloved Horcoff is one of them. Along with Moreau and Pisani...yet so many people keep talking about how these 3 guys have been so important to the Oilers PK over the years. Some even wanted Pisani back for this reason.
Finally we have a coach (Renney) who decides to on occasion give more PK time to an Ales Hemsky and a Dustin Penner. Even some time to Sam Gagner. Lo and behold, I believe all 3 of those players have yet to be on the ice for a goal against on the PK... So why are the Oilers so bad on the PK? Well the forward with the most minutes still remains the same. I don't know if it's related to the lousy PK numbers or not...but maybe it is. So the Oilers continue to have one of the worst PK units in the league...yet no one makes this distinction of the same guy still gets the majority of the minutes.
So if you have an Ales Hemsky, Sam Gagner, Dustin Penner that are putting up good PK numbers, why wouldn't you use them once in awhile instead of just in spurts? Again, I'm not saying all the PK minutes should go to these guys, but it would be nice to see some more, especially given their success.
Oh and for the record here are some names of pretty high end players that get a decent amount of PK minutes in the league.
Patrice Bergeron, David Krejci, Pavel Datsyuk, Anze Kopitar, Dustin Brown, Ryan Smyth, Martin St. Louis, Simon Gagne, Niklas Backstrom, Alex Semin, Mike Richards, Jeff Carter, Claude Giroux, Tomas Plekanec, Brian Gionta, Scott Gomez, Mikko Koivu, Matt Cullen, Joe Pavelski, Pat Marleau, Joe Thornton, Dan Heatley, Jon Toews, Pat Sharp, Marian Hossa, Dan Alfredsson, Milan Michalek, Alex Tanguay, Derek Roy, Eric Staal, Peter Stastny, Loui Eriksson, Jamie Benn, Mike Ribeiro, Patrick Elias, Travis Zajac, Zach Parise....just to name a few.
Sorry about the length of the post, everyone.
So what are the "right things" to fix it?
The present goaltending situation isn't a gong show... I really can't pin too many of the goals against on Khabby... Many were screens or deflections; although he has been far from perfect..
This is no offense to some of the goaltending greats like Brodeur or Roy, but a good defensive core prevents scoring opportunities, keeping shots to the outside... The crease is cleared from 2nd chances and odd man rushes are forced to the outside... Good teams like Philly and Chicago have proven that you don't need a Luongo or Brodeur or Miller to experience success...
@ Crash
I guess my main beef is:
"It seems to me many of the best coaches get their top end skill guys on the PK"
As shown above, that simply doesn't seem to be the case.
Also, other then Hemsky I don't think we've had a true "skilled forward" since Weight.
I guess Cole *might* be in that mold, but he played his fair amount of time on the PK.
Bringing in players with a proven track record of doing it (well)?
Or at least guys that have proven to be 3 zone players.
The most successful year in the last 20 yrs. was the team they put together by trades and signings.
Hemsky is not going to resign with the Oil in a couple of years, mind as well trade him while he is worth something
Based on what?
@The Real Scuba Steve
Not sure I'd agree with you that Hemmer wouldn't resign here... Of course, if Tambo is smart - he'll be talking with Hemmer's agent at the end of this year to talk about an extension... Both Brownlee and Gregor have said that Hemsky seems alot more energetic about the talented youth that has been brought in.. My guess is with a) a decent enough raise (let's say a contract between $4.5 to $5.0 million/year) and b) a continuation of the improvement of our depth up front and on the back end, I could seem him signing on for another two or three years...
Hemsky, the only true skilled fwd since Weight, you mean Mac-T didn't ruin all these great superstar fwd's~
Well IMO as shown above, many of the coaches in the league do get their top end skill guys on the PK for good stretches of time...maybe not the most minutes but they do get out there for a fair share...
Of course they also get checkers out on the ice as well because the top end guys also have so much ice time in other areas....
For the Oilers, IMO, it's worth a try given the state of the PK to use Hemsky, Penner and Gagner a little more especially due to the success they've had so far.
One thing I've noticed so far is how hard Hemsky pursues the puck, and Penner when teamed with Hemsky uses his reach to tip pucks in passing lanes and to stick check the puck off of guys....it seems as soon as Hemsky notices any sort of loose puck he goes right after it in an attempt to disrupt the PP of the other team from setting up. Also, once he gets the puck he usually makes good decisions or gets himself some open space to clear the puck due to his skill level. And lastly he is also a definite threat to produce offense if the other team makes a mistake. Having that threat is nice to have and can maybe make the oppositions PP have to be at least a little bit more aware defensively.
Eberle has this dimension to his game as well...if he figures out the defensive zone part he'll be a very effective PKer too, IMO.
Well IMO as shown above, many of the coaches in the league do get their top end skill guys on the PK for good stretches of time...maybe not the most minutes but they do get out there for a fair share...
Of course they also get checkers out on the ice as well because the top end guys also have so much ice time in other areas....
For the Oilers, IMO, it's worth a try given the state of the PK to use Hemsky, Penner and Gagner a little more especially due to the success they've had so far.
One thing I've noticed so far is how hard Hemsky pursues the puck, and Penner when teamed with Hemsky uses his reach to tip pucks in passing lanes and to stick check the puck off of guys....it seems as soon as Hemsky notices any sort of loose puck he goes right after it in an attempt to disrupt the PP of the other team from setting up. Also, once he gets the puck he usually makes good decisions or gets himself some open space to clear the puck due to his skill level. And lastly he is also a definite threat to produce offense if the other team makes a mistake. Having that threat is nice to have and can maybe make the oppositions PP have to be at least a little bit more aware defensively.
Eberle has this dimension to his game as well...if he figures out the defensive zone part he'll be a very effective PKer too, IMO.
@OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
Well IMO as shown above, many of the coaches in the league do get their top end skill guys on the PK for good stretches of time...maybe not the most minutes but they do get out there for a fair share...
Of course they also get checkers out on the ice as well because the top end guys also have so much ice time in other areas....
For the Oilers, IMO, it's worth a try given the state of the PK to use Hemsky, Penner and Gagner a little more especially due to the success they've had so far.
One thing I've noticed so far is how hard Hemsky pursues the puck, and Penner when teamed with Hemsky uses his reach to tip pucks in passing lanes and to stick check the puck off of guys....it seems as soon as Hemsky notices any sort of loose puck he goes right after it in an attempt to disrupt the PP of the other team from setting up. Also, once he gets the puck he usually makes good decisions or gets himself some open space to clear the puck due to his skill level. And lastly he is also a definite threat to produce offense if the other team makes a mistake. Having that threat is nice to have and can maybe make the oppositions PP have to be at least a little bit more aware defensively.
Eberle has this dimension to his game as well...if he figures out the defensive zone part he'll be a very effective PKer too, IMO.
Well IMO as shown above, many of the coaches in the league do get their top end skill guys on the PK for good stretches of time...maybe not the most minutes but they do get out there for a fair share...
Of course they also get checkers out on the ice as well because the top end guys also have so much ice time in other areas....
For the Oilers, IMO, it's worth a try given the state of the PK to use Hemsky, Penner and Gagner a little more especially due to the success they've had so far.
One thing I've noticed so far is how hard Hemsky pursues the puck, and Penner when teamed with Hemsky uses his reach to tip pucks in passing lanes and to stick check the puck off of guys....it seems as soon as Hemsky notices any sort of loose puck he goes right after it in an attempt to disrupt the PP of the other team from setting up. Also, once he gets the puck he usually makes good decisions or gets himself some open space to clear the puck due to his skill level. And lastly he is also a definite threat to produce offense if the other team makes a mistake. Having that threat is nice to have and can maybe make the oppositions PP have to be at least a little bit more aware defensively.
Eberle has this dimension to his game as well...if he figures out the defensive zone part he'll be a very effective PKer too, IMO.
Sorry about that, computer went haywire and I wound up with 4 of the same post
I agree with you D-Man, but I think it will take more than 4.5 to 5 mil. He is going to want at least what the Oilers gave Horc if not a bit more....I'm sure he'll have to average at least 5.5mil to stay.
I'm not against it. I'd like to see 5 more years for Hemmer.
Yeah - I'm not sure that contract would be affordable past $5.5 million unless it is two or three years in length... Granted - we could not afford NOT to give Hemmer his money, but with the three kids coming up the same year two years afterward a potential Hemsky extension, we could be pressed against the cap (even though we $10 million plus space now).
Tambo is going to have to make a decision next year about Penner and Hemsky... If we want to get that stud defensemen and improve our bottom six with better PK killers, I'm not sure we'll be able to keep both guys... My choice is Hemsky stays and Penner goes, but alot can also happen in two years...
Here's hoping that Tambo can negotiate a friendly cap contract with Hemmer's agent...
Maybe they have the right personnel, but the coaching staff isn't using them? Or maybe the coaching staff is just putting out a few "bad" options/combinations for the PK.
Let me elaborate...
The Oilers have allowed 15 PP against this year and there have basically only been 4 forwards that have been on the ice for a PP goal against (Cogliano was on for 1 PP goal against).
In the 3rd game of the season against Minnesota, Jones and Fraser got torched for 4 PP goals against. The very next game, Jones and Fraser were on for a 5-on-3 PP goal against. Since that time, the Oilers have allowed 10 PP goals and Horcoff and Eberle have been on for 9 of them.
Granted those two have been killing the majority of penalties (and therefore would be normal for them to have allowed more PK goals against). I can’t help but wonder if the personnel that Renney is sending out might be questioned?
PK time this year:
Horcoff- 27:35 Eberle – 22:07 Fraser – 21:53 Cogliano – 13:23 Hemsky – 12:43 Jones – 12:04 Penner – 8:24
When would be the tme for Renney to consider using some of the other guys more? Or in different combinations (ie. splitting up Eberle and Horcoff)?
Thought Shawn Horcoff was one of those guys...
At least that's what the many here would have us believe.
Hemsky, Horcoff, Stoll, and Smyth were the top 4 Oiler scorers that season: all Oiler draft choices.
In the playoffs Pronger, Horcoff, Pisani, Hemsky, and Smyth led the scoring. Again, four Oiler draftees in that bunch.
And Jussi Markkanen, who filled it brilliantly for Roloson, was also an Oiler pick.
You need to develop your best players from within before you can go out and sign/trade for other parts. That season was living proof of it.
@ Crash
Yes!
This is what I've been getting at:
"many of the coaches in the league do get their top end skill guys on the PK for good stretches of time"
You say "many of the top coaches...etc" as support to your claim that the Oilers should be using skill guys on the PK.
When in reality top coaches AND bottom coaches are using skill on the PK... top coaches and bottom coaches are also NOT using skill on the PK.
In other words, that statement doesn't support your opinion.
Good thing all three rookies started at the same time ;)
But maybe Horcoff isn't that guy?
Look at his PK numbers this year (not sure what they were like last year?)as well as his +/- from last year?
Or maybe he is the guy but doesn't have enough support and has been spread too thin.
Quality of competition, etc come into play - but if the numbers look as bad as they do, maybe something has to change? Maybe a player (or two) need to be acquired; or other people need to be given a chance?
Yes, unfortunatly he only plays 5% of our total PK time.
Good thing you don't let them trick you.
Are you honestly arguing that managment has done a good job building a cast to handle the PK?
@OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
Yeah - I know where you're heading... I don't think we could have avoided that situation... Hall has no business in Windsor this year... We could have considered to give Eberle or MPS a shot to start last year, but hindsight is always 20-20... Assuming all three pan out to where we all think they could, I could see their combined contracts taking about $9 million/year for years four and five and then around $15 million/year afterwards...
Of course, that's just me being an uneducated capologist... Hopefully, we'll have won two cups by then and not have to worry about that situation... :)
I don't want to get into it because it's been discussed ad nauseum.
However, we certainly could have avoided it.
Oh wow man, seriously?....semantics.
The whole jist of it is that the Oilers with such middle of the road talent have never bothered to use their best for the PK which has been done zillions of times over in other cities by multiple coaches...
Of the top 15 teams on the PK so far this year, 12 or 13 of them consistently use high end skill guys to kill penalties. Of the ones that don't, only Vancouver and Florida refrain from it although Vancouver does use Kesler and Burrows (when healthy).
This is what I've been getting at...you've known all along that I've been suggesting that the Oilers use Hemsky to kill penalties. You've been attacking that position ever since I brought it up the first time, although it seems your stance has lightened, likely due to the Oilers having actually now tried this with success (this has made you a bit less belligerent about it)
I'm happy to see Renney has done what all the previous coaches (one in particular) failed to even experiment with. It's long overdue whether you want to admit this or not.
Good on Renney he has done what MOST coaches in the league do and uses his best to take some PK time. Given the success so far you just might see more of it...at least until it fails miserably, if it does.
I see a one has to be careful with wording with you as you like to pick out the smallest flaw and turn it into a big point. Ok, so MOST NHL coaches tend to use their best skill players to kill some penalties, some don't, but most do...why do they do this? Because it works....good to see the Oilers starting to figure this out.
Hemsky (70-80 point guy, consistently) for Staal (40-50 point guy)? I like Staal, I think he has great potential, and he's certainly been held down by having Crosby and Malkin mostly taking up the 1/2C spots. And now they've added Comrie, who can slot in there too.
However, even if we assume they're happy with the guy they have replacing him while he's out, that's still a big offensive differential to give up, regardless of PK or FO%. Hemmer would look great feeding either of those Pens butter passes all night, and we'd get back a guy who is conceivably Stoll V2 (2nd C and 1st PK/FO guy). Frankly, Hemmer is more valuable than just Staal. He fills out a real nice spot on the Pens, and we get back a guy we're hoping has been held back.
I "attacted" because you kept insisting that "The best coaches in the league" were doing in, when in fact that's not the case (or at least a big stretch)
And theirs VERY few players like Hemsky that PK regularly. Like I pointed out the ones that do are well known for their 2 way ability.
Guy like Kovalchuk/Kane/AO/Sellane/Kessel spend little to no time on the PK. And I'd say Hemsky's game resembles skill guys like that far more then it does skill guys like Richards/Koivu/Toews.
My guess is that the fans and media alike have already done enough to run Penner out of town...with the constant unwarranted attacks on Penner's game (my take), I'm thinking he isn't going to want to stick around for more of it. So he is likely gone for sure.
I'm hopeful that Hemsky will want to be a part of hopefully something special starting to happen here and he'll sign on for 5 years more. He's still going to want a good chunk of change though more than likely.
It was suggested to me that one of the reasons all 3 of the kids came in at the same time is so when they all reach potential that maybe they'll all sign on for less due to wanting to stay together and win together...time will tell.
*he says with fingers crossed*
Or Datsyuk, Kopitar, St. Louis, Backstrom, Semin, Giroux, Plekanec, Gionta, Pavelski, Marleau, Thornton, Heatley, Hossa, Michalek, Tanguay, Roy, Eric Staal, Benn, Ribeiro, Elias, Zajac, Parise...
I'd say Hemsky's name fits right in with some of those guys that are on the PK...
And like I said, it's now being done with success so far.
And it's not a big stretch to insist that good coaches are doing this as that list above covers quite an array of different teams.
AO probably doesn't see PK time because he stays out on the ice for both PP units plus he takes long EV strength shifts. Kane probably doesn't see PK time because Chicago has other high end guys that are better (Toews, Sharp, Hossa). There are others, there always are, but a majority of teams use some high end guys. Crosby doesn't, and I don't understand that one either. There are always a few exceptions.
Maybe some coaches refrain from it because they're afraid of injury...I don't know...we can agree to disagree...I think Hemsky should kill penalties...you obviously don't. I'd actually like to see them use Hemsky for both PP units somehow...then PK would likely be out of the equation but for now I'm loving that he is out there on the PK.
I've actually liked Hemsky out there on the PK, and other then the injury risk I'd like to see it continue.
My point is and always has been about "the best coaches" statement used as support.
I'll keep my fingers crossed too... I'm not sure we'll want Hemsky for another five years - he'd be 34 years old by the end of that extension; I think we learned the negative impact for signing someone to that long term of a deal... Hemsky is three or four times the player that Horcoff is; I'm just not sure I'd want to be paying him or taking a cap hit of $5 million plus when he's 32 plus... If we could get a three year extension, we'd be laughing...
I also have to disagree with your take on Penner... I think his contract was similar to Horcoff's in the sense that it wasn't his fault that he signed that stupid offer sheet. Now - if he plays like he COULD (more physical, more in your face - and he did at times last year) and scores 30 goals - sign him for another 3 years too.. Chances are good though that he'll QUIETLY chip in 25 - 30 goals this year; that's why he receives the attacks.. Penner was my goat for the year simply because he doesn't have the personality to sustain what we saw last year... I hope I'm wrong; but if he was making only $2.5 million/year, I don't think we'd even be having that conversation...
Nope. Never said that. Feel free to assume and imply all you want, however.