Ten minutes with Hemsky: the shoulder, Jagr and that other Czech player the Oilers like

Robin Brownlee
February 25 2010 09:45PM

The best stuff at Rexall Place today wasn't to be had out on the ice where the Edmonton Oilers were practising. Noooooo. Time was better spent huddling with injured Oilers forward Ales Hemsky.

Hemsky, out for the balance of the season after shoulder surgery, spent 10 minutes shooting the breeze with Rob Tychkowski of The Sun, Joanne Ireland of The Journal and yours truly today.

We touched on Hemsky's left shoulder, his take on the possibility of Jaromir Jagr joining the Oilers and about interest in unheralded Roman Cervenka, a teammate of Jagr's on the Czech Olympic team and a player I mentioned here last week.

That wing

Hemsky's been rehabbing his shoulder since having surgery in December. While he expects to be ready for next season, and hopes to resume skating this spring, it's a long, slow process.

"The rehab is going all right. My shoulder is getting better and better and better, so I'm on the right track. We're happy with the bands, the physio  and the normal stuff you should do. We're working with a conditioning trainer every day, so I'm just right on track."

On sitting out while the team languishes in 30th place, Hemsky admits to not being a great spectator.

"It's a tough year for everybody. For me, it's tough because I played just 22 games, I think. I missed the Olympics, too, and the season hasn't gone right. Everything together, it's frustrating, but everything bad, it's good for something. You've got to take the positive. I've got to get ready for next year. That's my goal."

Yes, next year. How's that working for you?

"I don't really want to talk about it. I don't know what will happen here. That's management's business. I'm not even playing right now. My goal is just to get ready for next season. If I’ll be here, I'll be here. If not, I will not. I don't know what the team will do with the players here.

"I have a lot of great friends here. I feel like home here, so I don't have a problem with anything with the city. I've met so many great people here, so I feel good. It's frustrating for everybody when the hockey and everything doesn't go well."

On Jaromir

The Oilers have been eye-balling Jagr from afar since he left the NHL to play in the KHL. There's been talk about the Oilers trying to find a way to land the 38-year-old future Hall-of-Famer next season.

That talk has heated up somewhat with Jagr's performance for the Czech team in Vancouver, where the Oilers had more than a few sets of eyes tracking his every move.

On Jagr returning to North America, Hemsky said: "I hope he will because he can still play. He’s still a great hockey player. When I talked to him before he was interested in playing.

"I don’t know how he feels now after the tournament. I think after things settle down a bit he will want to come back for one or two years. He can still play on the small rink. He’s strong."

With the Oilers entering rebuild mode and having salary cap concerns, we asked Hemsky if he sees Jagr as a fit in Edmonton.

"He’s not like he was, but he can still be a difference-maker. He’s a superstar. Just having him on the team is good for everybody. That’s why I think it would be good. He’s a guy who can do 70 points. We don’t have guys who can do 70 points."

Why Edmonton? Hemsky and Jagr are friends and speak frequently. Jagr also played for Oilers associate coach Tom Renney in New York and for assistant coach Wayne Fleming in Omsk. So?

"I think he'll want to play someplace where he will be happy, where he will know the coach, and maybe where there are a lot of young guys. He doesn’t have to have the role he used to have, but he has to feel comfortable. I think he would (consider playing with the Oilers), but that’s just speculation."

What about Roman?

Heading into the Olympics, I mentioned Cervenka. Here's what I wrote on Feb. 15.

"While the Oilers will have lots of eyes an ears at the Olympics, some of them on Jaromir Jagr, there's another player who they'll be gawking at, as will other NHL teams. Keep an eye on Czech Republic forward Roman Cervenka, an undrafted 24-year-old who might turn out to be a player for somebody.

"Cervenka never got a sniff during his draft year because he was ridiculously small at five-foot-seven and 127 pounds. That's not a mis-print. He was a-buck-27 as a teenager.

"At five-foot-11 and 187 pounds now, Cervenka's looking like a late-bloomer. In 48 games with Slavia Praha this season, Cervenka has scored 30-41-71 to lead the team in scoring."

Cervenka played on a line with Jagr in Vancouver, but he wasn't overly impressive, managing two assists in five games. Still, Hemsky says he's a player.

"I played with him on the national team. He didn't have the strongest tournament like he'd probably want, but I still think he's a good player. He's a very talented guy. He's pretty strong kid, too, and pretty smart.

"I don't think you can judge people over 10 days or nine days. I just think he's a good player."

Hemsky figures Cervenka is NHL ready. Outside getting one of the top three picks in the Entry Draft this June, which the Oilers will, that's something teams usually have to wait years for when drafting teenagers.

"He's already a player," Hemsky said. "That's what you've got. You don't have to develop. You get a guy who has already played somewhere and has the experience. He's already mature, you know.

"I think he's very smart. He's a really smart, patient guy. He can play both ways. He's a strong, hard-working guy, actually. He works hard off the ice and on the ice. He's a really good kid.

"He can score goals. He's good on face-offs. Who knows? It's different hockey, too, here. That's the risk you're taking. I think sometimes it's better to take a guy who is ready, who has already played somewhere."

Listen to Robin Brownlee Wednesdays and Thursdays from 4 p.m. to 6 p.m. on the Jason Gregor Show on TEAM 1260.

Aceb4a1816f5fa09879a023b07d1a9b4
A sports writer since 1983, including stints at The Edmonton Journal and The Sun 1989-2007, I happily co-host the Jason Gregor Show on TSN 1260 twice a week and write when so inclined. Have the best damn lawn on the internet. Most important, I am Sam's dad. Follow me on Twitter at Robin_Brownlee. Or don't.
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#51 Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach
February 26 2010, 10:02AM
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Scott in Grande Prairie wrote:

I don't want this to sound snarky, but can't the Oilers rebuild AND sign Jagr on for a year or two? Wouldn't his influence on the younger players be a positive thing, Robin?

Couldn't Jagr fit in as some sort of "elder statesman?"

And, just because the Oilers are rebuilding, does that mean they shouldn't be trying to win some games and ice a competitive product? Must it be all about the high draft pick?

According to the Hockey News, the 2011 draft is considered weak - by whatever standards make a draft "weak." I don't know if THN is correct, but if it is, I'm not sure if it's going to be worth the Oilers' trouble to tank.

Not going to lie this years draft that is only a few months away has been called weak and strong. I really have no idea anymore what a weak draft or a strong draft means.

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#52 Chris.
February 26 2010, 10:02AM
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Scott in Grande Prairie wrote:

I don't want this to sound snarky, but can't the Oilers rebuild AND sign Jagr on for a year or two? Wouldn't his influence on the younger players be a positive thing, Robin?

Couldn't Jagr fit in as some sort of "elder statesman?"

And, just because the Oilers are rebuilding, does that mean they shouldn't be trying to win some games and ice a competitive product? Must it be all about the high draft pick?

According to the Hockey News, the 2011 draft is considered weak - by whatever standards make a draft "weak." I don't know if THN is correct, but if it is, I'm not sure if it's going to be worth the Oilers' trouble to tank.

X2. If the Oilers can move Moreau and an expensive Dman at the deadline, AND sign Jagr this summer, AND get Hemsky and Rehabibulin back to form, AND successfully integrate some quality youth (Eberle Seguin/Hall), AND get Gagner to take a step forward, AND sign some effective role players to value contracts, AND avoid so many injuries, AND gell as a team...

*deep breath*

Maybe we could finally get our youth some playoff experience as part of the rebuild...

Anyone? *looking around desperately with a full jug of KoolAid and some extra glasses.*

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#53 Milli
February 26 2010, 10:12AM
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I'd take Jagr and that other kid, but, Klo still hasn't called me to be the new GM....I keep sending him my resume though..soom, wait, maybe my phone isn't working!

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#54 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
February 26 2010, 10:18AM
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Scott in Grande Prairie wrote:

I don't want this to sound snarky, but can't the Oilers rebuild AND sign Jagr on for a year or two? Wouldn't his influence on the younger players be a positive thing, Robin?

Couldn't Jagr fit in as some sort of "elder statesman?"

And, just because the Oilers are rebuilding, does that mean they shouldn't be trying to win some games and ice a competitive product? Must it be all about the high draft pick?

According to the Hockey News, the 2011 draft is considered weak - by whatever standards make a draft "weak." I don't know if THN is correct, but if it is, I'm not sure if it's going to be worth the Oilers' trouble to tank.

Your bang on (though I don't know if Jagr is the guy, attitude/gas left in the tank etc).

Outside of the top 2/3 picks is a crap shoot every year, and often takes 5+ years before you yield real results. The odds of this team being in position to draft 1/2 again next year are slim, don't waste another year watching this garbage just to draft 7/8/9.

Make the moves needed to be playoff competitive next year.

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#55 Scott in Grande Prairie
February 26 2010, 10:20AM
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Actually, Chris. I don't know if that's as much of an impossible chore as it sounds. Not all of the stuff you listed there is beyond the pale.

And, I admit this is going to sound kinda stupid - but sometimes teams suddenly find themselves "rebuilt."

I remember suffering through the non-playoff years in the mid-1990s and I don't remember the Oilers ever using the "rebuild" word back then. Of course, that's when Slats was the GM and he was far to crusty to admit it.

But, as memory serves, it seemed like it just started suddenly "coming together" in 1995-96, when they missed the playoffs by only a few points. The better players were starting to mature (Weight, Marchant, etc.) and by then, they'd picked up a few vets (Cujo) who were really contributing.

Of course, the Oilers of that era didn't ever win anything, either.

My point is this: sometimes rebuilds take less time than you think and don't require tearing things down to the studs.

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#56 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
February 26 2010, 10:21AM
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Chris. wrote:

X2. If the Oilers can move Moreau and an expensive Dman at the deadline, AND sign Jagr this summer, AND get Hemsky and Rehabibulin back to form, AND successfully integrate some quality youth (Eberle Seguin/Hall), AND get Gagner to take a step forward, AND sign some effective role players to value contracts, AND avoid so many injuries, AND gell as a team...

*deep breath*

Maybe we could finally get our youth some playoff experience as part of the rebuild...

Anyone? *looking around desperately with a full jug of KoolAid and some extra glasses.*

I really don't think theirs that much koolaid involved, theirs no reason next years team can't be a hybrid of Phoenix/Colorado's turn around this year (additions of quality role players + moderate impact rookies + solid goaltending)

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#57 Matt Henderson
February 26 2010, 10:22AM
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Re: Trading Hemsky for anything less than a top 3 pick or a young 20 something superstar

Absolutely insane. Thinking that Hemsky's value to the team could be replaced with 3rd line pluggers and energy players is without question the grossest underestimation of a player I have ever seen.

Yes, there are scenarios where trading Hemsky makes sense. Those scenarios are essentially pipe dreams though. Who are the Oilers honestly going to get that could be better? Wait until TDD in his last year, then the light is green to trade him for what could only be an inferior return.

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#58 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
February 26 2010, 10:25AM
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Matt Henderson wrote:

Re: Trading Hemsky for anything less than a top 3 pick or a young 20 something superstar

Absolutely insane. Thinking that Hemsky's value to the team could be replaced with 3rd line pluggers and energy players is without question the grossest underestimation of a player I have ever seen.

Yes, there are scenarios where trading Hemsky makes sense. Those scenarios are essentially pipe dreams though. Who are the Oilers honestly going to get that could be better? Wait until TDD in his last year, then the light is green to trade him for what could only be an inferior return.

I think a case could be made to trade him for a goal scorer that doens't put up quite the points but adds other aspects.

ie the 20 goal/75 point Hemsky for a 30/60 point power forward. Which really wouldn't be a pipe dream.

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#59 Dyckster
February 26 2010, 10:26AM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

Because it would likely be a one year deal, making it basically irrelavant to the cap.

But, what if during that 1 year deal an impact, potential long term player becomes available and we can't go after him because of Jagr's salary? Is it worth the risk?

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#60 Traktor
February 26 2010, 10:30AM
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This team will be loaded with youth next year with or without Jagr.

With that said it becomes a situation of who you would rather surround your youth with, Nilsson, O'Sullivan, Moreau ect.. or Jagr.

Seems like a no-brainer. If we can use Jagr to bring over Cervenka as well then that's a huge bonus.

The kids will get time regardless, lets make sure we surround them with the best veterans possible. That also mean Shawn Horcoff needs to get the puck out of dodge. Rightly or wrongly the guy is getting booed out of his own rink every night and that kind of negative energy can only be a huge distraction to the team.

If the league went to Katz and told him since he is such cool dude they are going to allow him to spend 20 million over the cap would Katz accept this gracious offer?

I bet he would.

Guess what? Sending Horcoff, Nilsson, Moreau, O'Sullivan ect to the minors will give the team 10+ million in extra cap space.

Get it done.

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#61 Scott in Grande Prairie
February 26 2010, 10:30AM
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Well, I'm not sure who a "potential long-term player" would be - they don't tend to pop up during the season anymore. But, here's one possible answer to your question: How about trading Jagr for him?

I know - that's not likely. But we're talking about an imaginary player and an imaginary scenario...

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#62 Lofty
February 26 2010, 10:31AM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

Because it would likely be a one year deal, making it basically irrelavant to the cap.

Unless a team needs a place to dump a contract to make a trade. The oil can take a short term, large salary and draft picks. That sounds better to me than having Jagr stroll the ice. I think more positives can come out of having the money in hand than tied up... even if its only for a year.

From what I have heard Jagr is looking for 2 years? I could be wrong.

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#63 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
February 26 2010, 10:32AM
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Dyckster wrote:

But, what if during that 1 year deal an impact, potential long term player becomes available and we can't go after him because of Jagr's salary? Is it worth the risk?

Huge what if. Seems to be a common theme though, no one wants to spend the cap space because they think something better may be coming along.

Also, the cap is alot more flexible then people want to admit. If the owner is willing to spend, then it's essentially a soft cap.

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#64 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
February 26 2010, 10:35AM
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Lofty wrote:

Unless a team needs a place to dump a contract to make a trade. The oil can take a short term, large salary and draft picks. That sounds better to me than having Jagr stroll the ice. I think more positives can come out of having the money in hand than tied up... even if its only for a year.

From what I have heard Jagr is looking for 2 years? I could be wrong.

I honestly think that's a pipe dream. The closest we've seen to that is Burke taking a couple garbage players off TB's hands a few years ago for what I believe was a 4th round pick.

Do we come in say 9th rather then 8th in order to MAYBE get a bad contract or 2 and a 2nd/3rd/4th round pick.

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#65 Chris.
February 26 2010, 10:37AM
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For the record: I'm in favor of signing Jager to a one year deal to play with Hemsky... but only if management can still be 3M under the cap and still bring in a shutdown D-man and a quality faceoff/ penalty killing center with size.

Ogden, Scott... I've got lots and lots of Koolaid... I'm sure I'll be drinking it all summer.

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#66 Lofty
February 26 2010, 10:39AM
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Chris. wrote:

Oh it goes without saying that having a few million in cap space is important... but how much do you really need? Ten million? The Oilers spent waaaay over the cap this year: but despite this mismanagement, thanks to the inevidable injuries, they still have around two million in cap space...

As for buying out the mistakes of others... that speaks again to the importance of term.

During a rebuild I would like to see the oil have 5-6 million before injuries. I'm only a fan and I dont have to try and sell tickets in the next couple years.

If the Oilers save 4 million against the cap per year due to injuries i dont think this will be last time they finish the season DFL.

It also speaks to the salary and the impact that salary has for that given year.

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#67 Lofty
February 26 2010, 10:42AM
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Dyckster wrote:

But, what if during that 1 year deal an impact, potential long term player becomes available and we can't go after him because of Jagr's salary? Is it worth the risk?

Exactly

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#68 Chris.
February 26 2010, 10:49AM
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Dyckster wrote:

But, what if during that 1 year deal an impact, potential long term player becomes available and we can't go after him because of Jagr's salary? Is it worth the risk?

Is it a bigger risk than having that same cap space tied up in Nilsson and O'Sullivan? (Or do you agree with Katz... the part where he said we have a "good young core moving forward".

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#69 Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach
February 26 2010, 10:54AM
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Not sure if people realize but we've been to the cap every year and we still go after the high priced players when we have little cap space. The reason is that the GM has options in getting rid of cap space. IF Tambo really wanted Horcoff could be traded once the freeze is over, it just might not be a move that helps the team.

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#70 Chris.
February 26 2010, 10:56AM
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Aren't Hemsky and Jager both right wingers anyways?

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#71 Lofty
February 26 2010, 10:57AM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

I honestly think that's a pipe dream. The closest we've seen to that is Burke taking a couple garbage players off TB's hands a few years ago for what I believe was a 4th round pick.

Do we come in say 9th rather then 8th in order to MAYBE get a bad contract or 2 and a 2nd/3rd/4th round pick.

In my opinion 2nd/3rd/4th round picks would be better than Jagr. Stoll, Greene, Chimera all came from late in the draft so I would rather invest in long term future rather than the short term.

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#72 Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach
February 26 2010, 11:03AM
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Chris. wrote:

Aren't Hemsky and Jager both right wingers anyways?

They played together in some tournament and one of the things that was done was Hemsky at center.

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#73 Chris.
February 26 2010, 11:03AM
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@Lofty

It's not like we're asking Tambellini to trade away picks to aquire Jagr. Your making a pretty big assumption that tying up four million in Jagr will cripple Tambellini's ability to trade for additional picks...

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#74 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
February 26 2010, 11:07AM
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Lofty wrote:

In my opinion 2nd/3rd/4th round picks would be better than Jagr. Stoll, Greene, Chimera all came from late in the draft so I would rather invest in long term future rather than the short term.

Remember we are talking about MAYBE getting those picks, theirs been what 4/5 deals since the cap came in that are remotely similar to what you are suggesting and then to top it off we're looking at success rates of those picks being in the 2% - 5% range. Realisticlay your probably looking at roughly a 1/200 chance of getting the trade done AND getting a quality player with those picks.

Do you knowingly make your team worse for the .5% chance that you improve your team (with someone that is relatively easy to aquire on the open market) 5 years from now?

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#75 Chris.
February 26 2010, 11:26AM
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Hemsky-Gagner-Jagr (approx 11 million)

Penner-Brule-Hall (approx 7.5 million)

Potulny-Horcoff-Eberle (approx 7.5 million)

Stone-Pouliot-Stortini and JFJ. (approx 3 million)

Ship out some smurfs for picks, or some value priced medium quality shutdown d-men. Find another goalie. Ship out Grebeskov, and Souray. Goalies (approx 5.5 million) Defence minus Souray and Grebs (approx 18 million)

Cost 52.5 million.

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#76 Scott in Grande Prairie
February 26 2010, 11:39AM
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While you're figuring out the forward lines, can you do me a favour and cut JFJ?

And, while we're on the subject of trading forwards - anyone given any thought about trading Penner this summer? Or do we want him on the team at this time next year? (I would assume there's virtually no chance he'll re-up for another multi-year deal in the Edmonton fishbowl.

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#77 Chris.
February 26 2010, 11:50AM
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Scott in Grande Prairie wrote:

While you're figuring out the forward lines, can you do me a favour and cut JFJ?

And, while we're on the subject of trading forwards - anyone given any thought about trading Penner this summer? Or do we want him on the team at this time next year? (I would assume there's virtually no chance he'll re-up for another multi-year deal in the Edmonton fishbowl.

I don't even really like my proposed lineup... too soft IMO. I'm just demonstrating how dropping Nilsson, O'Sullivan, Souray, and Moreau; combined with trading Cogliano and one of Gilbert/Grebeshkov for some young quality; plus injecting youth like Hall, and maybe Peckham and Eberle: can lead to a lot of cap relief... Tambellini should have room to sign a quality top six forward to a short term deal without destroying his cap flexibility.

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#78 David S
February 26 2010, 11:50AM
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Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach wrote:

Not sure if people realize but we've been to the cap every year and we still go after the high priced players when we have little cap space. The reason is that the GM has options in getting rid of cap space. IF Tambo really wanted Horcoff could be traded once the freeze is over, it just might not be a move that helps the team.

Please. Stop this. Horcoff is NOT tradeable. Seriously, if you were any other GM in the league, would you want him at his level of play with that contract? You're talking like he's Danny freakin' Heatley. He's not.

C'mon man. This isn't HF Boards.

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#79 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
February 26 2010, 11:53AM
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David S wrote:

Please. Stop this. Horcoff is NOT tradeable. Seriously, if you were any other GM in the league, would you want him at his level of play with that contract? You're talking like he's Danny freakin' Heatley. He's not.

C'mon man. This isn't HF Boards.

Oh I'm sure he is, you take back another bad contract or you provide a really strong sweetner and I'm sure someone would take him.

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#80 David S
February 26 2010, 11:59AM
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"Trade Horcoff". *facepalm*

Where's Meg Morrisson and her "railroad" track when you need it?

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#81 Matt Henderson
February 26 2010, 12:00PM
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@OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F

I can see why some people would like that. Personally, I dont. I think a guy like Hemsky, who creates opportunities for other guys, would be more beneficial to the young guys who will be on the team next season.

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#82 Matt Henderson
February 26 2010, 12:03PM
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Horcoff's options are here in E-town or in the AHL. That's it. It would take a Milbury Miracle to trade him.

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#83 Traktor
February 26 2010, 12:06PM
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Management has no choice but to move Horcoff.

Bury him in the minors if need be.

The guy chipped in with 3 assists last game and still got booed off the ice. When 10,000 fans are booing Horcoff in his own risk you have no choice but to find a new home for him.

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#84 Matt Henderson
February 26 2010, 12:11PM
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@Traktor

Make no mistake, I'm pro Minors for Horc, but only when the team actually needs the space. When the fans boo him he can dry his tears with 100 dollar bills.

But there isnt anyone he's preventing yet from being here. Maybe next October it will actually be an issue.

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#85 Robin Brownlee
February 26 2010, 12:38PM
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Dan the Man wrote:

Do we need another smallish "skill" guy like Cervenka?

Unless we can deal away several of the ones we have currently I don't see much of a point.

Fair question. I guess what the Oilers have to decide is if they see Cervenka as an upgrade on one of the smaller forwards they have now. If they decide that's the case, then you look at it.

If they believe, for intance, that Cervenka can produce as much or more as Robert Nilsson or Patrick O'Sullivan at 50-70 per cent of the salary, then you move one of them and replace them with Cervenka.

I don't know enough about Cervenka to offer an opinion on whether he's worth it or not.

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#86 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
February 26 2010, 12:51PM
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David S wrote:

"Trade Horcoff". *facepalm*

Where's Meg Morrisson and her "railroad" track when you need it?

You don't think a Horcoff for Redden or a Horcoff + something small for Drury or a Horcof + something "mid sized" for Olesz or a Horcoff + something "mid sized" for Brier are possible.

I'm pretty sure theirs at least a handful of NHL GM's that aren't as short sighted as NHL fans and are solely placing his value based on his worst year in 7.

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#87 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
February 26 2010, 12:52PM
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Matt Henderson wrote:

I can see why some people would like that. Personally, I dont. I think a guy like Hemsky, who creates opportunities for other guys, would be more beneficial to the young guys who will be on the team next season.

True enough, it really depends on the make up of the rest of your team.

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#88 Matt Henderson
February 26 2010, 12:57PM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

You don't think a Horcoff for Redden or a Horcoff + something small for Drury or a Horcof + something "mid sized" for Olesz or a Horcoff + something "mid sized" for Brier are possible.

I'm pretty sure theirs at least a handful of NHL GM's that aren't as short sighted as NHL fans and are solely placing his value based on his worst year in 7.

His value has been in steady decline since his shoulder surgery. The trend isnt really that short term.

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#89 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
February 26 2010, 01:06PM
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Matt Henderson wrote:

His value has been in steady decline since his shoulder surgery. The trend isnt really that short term.

Last year was pretty average for him. I don't think it's unresonable to think he could duplicate that 2-3 more times.

This year has been the stinker, evaluated on it's own he's worthless.

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#90 Matt Henderson
February 26 2010, 01:52PM
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@OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F

I can see that, but when you have to take a guy for 5+ years, you'd have to think that a year like this would scare off most potential suitors.

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#91 Scott in Grande Prairie
February 26 2010, 02:03PM
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I realize that I’m running the risk of being fitted for a straightjacket, but what the heck.

In my opinion, Horcoff isn't nearly as unmarketable as trade bait or unsalvageable as a player has been asserted by many.

First, let’s look at the marketability. What makes a player “marketable,” isn’t just the contract, it’s the reputation. Two years ago, Horcoff was a point-a-game player who ran into injury problems that, quite frankly, he still hasn’t recovered from. I’d suggest to you that, at that time, he was considered one of the better two-way centres in the game – exactly the kind of piece to the puzzle a Stanley Cup contender would trade for.

Yes, I know. I’m insane. But hey, if you’re still reading to this point, I’ll ask you to keep humouring me.

The trick is finding a team out there that hasn’t really done its full homework on Horcoff. And, based on the track records of certain teams with other trades, there may be many, especially back east where, quite frankly, no one is keeping close tabs on the Oilers.

And, even if they can’t trade him, maybe another summer of healing will help him. When I look at Horcoff, I still see a guy who, if he’s healthy, can do all sorts of things that most players can’t. Is he overpaid for doing it? Yeah, sure. But I’m prepared to give him another chance.

He’s overpaid, but he's not Alexei Yashin. He’s not Vernon Wells or Alex Rios. I really don’t see him mailing it in for the next five years.

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#92 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
February 26 2010, 02:11PM
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Matt Henderson wrote:

I can see that, but when you have to take a guy for 5+ years, you'd have to think that a year like this would scare off most potential suitors.

Oh for sure, his value is really, really low. Theirs no questioning that, it's just this endless "so and so isn't movable" stuff that is really just empty message board talk. I

It's always been the term that botherd me with his contract...and likely worries other teams as well. He should have gotten $$ or term, not both.

6 years @ say 26 million, fine

4 years @ 22 million, fine as well

If he had 3.25 years left his contract would be much more managable and a much smaller risk.

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#93 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
February 26 2010, 02:13PM
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Scott in Grande Prairie wrote:

I realize that I’m running the risk of being fitted for a straightjacket, but what the heck.

In my opinion, Horcoff isn't nearly as unmarketable as trade bait or unsalvageable as a player has been asserted by many.

First, let’s look at the marketability. What makes a player “marketable,” isn’t just the contract, it’s the reputation. Two years ago, Horcoff was a point-a-game player who ran into injury problems that, quite frankly, he still hasn’t recovered from. I’d suggest to you that, at that time, he was considered one of the better two-way centres in the game – exactly the kind of piece to the puzzle a Stanley Cup contender would trade for.

Yes, I know. I’m insane. But hey, if you’re still reading to this point, I’ll ask you to keep humouring me.

The trick is finding a team out there that hasn’t really done its full homework on Horcoff. And, based on the track records of certain teams with other trades, there may be many, especially back east where, quite frankly, no one is keeping close tabs on the Oilers.

And, even if they can’t trade him, maybe another summer of healing will help him. When I look at Horcoff, I still see a guy who, if he’s healthy, can do all sorts of things that most players can’t. Is he overpaid for doing it? Yeah, sure. But I’m prepared to give him another chance.

He’s overpaid, but he's not Alexei Yashin. He’s not Vernon Wells or Alex Rios. I really don’t see him mailing it in for the next five years.

If last years Dustin Penner can be a piece in a trade for a premier goal scorer, then Horcoff can be moved.

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#94 Charlie
February 26 2010, 02:27PM
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Dyckster wrote:

But, what if during that 1 year deal an impact, potential long term player becomes available and we can't go after him because of Jagr's salary? Is it worth the risk?

When is the last time an impact, potential long term player became available and the OIlers went after and GOT? CFP?

It ABSOLUTELY is worth the risk.

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#95 Traktor
February 26 2010, 02:31PM
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@Scott in Grande Prairie

Scott in GP:

Nobody cares what Shawn Horcoff did in 2005/2006.

Jonathan Cheechoo scored 56 goals and 93 points in 2005/2006 and his currently playing in the AHL.

"The trick is finding a team out there that hasn’t really done its full homework on Horcoff. "

David Blaine couldn't even pull that trick off.

"When I look at Horcoff, I still see a guy who, if he’s healthy, can do all sorts of things that most players can’t."

Marty Reasoner, Manny Malhotra, Dominic Moore, Steven Reinprecht, ect call all do the same things Horcoff does for 2 million or less.

"He’s not Vernon Wells or Alex Rios"

Alex Rios was claimed on waivers and he actually had talent. Horcoff is more like a 10 million dollar Johnny Mac with a hole in his glove.

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#96 Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach
February 26 2010, 02:46PM
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David S wrote:

Please. Stop this. Horcoff is NOT tradeable. Seriously, if you were any other GM in the league, would you want him at his level of play with that contract? You're talking like he's Danny freakin' Heatley. He's not.

C'mon man. This isn't HF Boards.

You put Horcoff and our 1st on the table and he is gone in a second.

And I wasn't suggesting the trade but stating that if we want to open up money there is always a way. NJ had no cap space and traded Malahkov(injuried) and a 1st to San Jose.

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#97 Ender
February 26 2010, 02:53PM
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Scott in Grande Prairie wrote:

Yes, I know. I’m insane. But hey, if you’re still reading to this point, I’ll ask you to keep humouring me.

I don't know about insane, but very naive or hopelessly optimistic might fit . . .

Scott in Grande Prairie wrote:

The trick is finding a team out there that hasn’t really done its full homework on Horcoff.

Look at Horcoff's salary. Note the number of zeros. Note the term remaining and equate that to percentage of team cap. Can you honestly sit there straight-faced and say that you're hoping someone will trade for Horcoff without doing research? Like, weeks of it?

I'm not saying he's untradeable, but it's pretty close. I think we value Horcoff more than any other GM in the league, and that means any potential deal that would move him would probably mean something even uglier coming back the other way.

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#98 Matt Henderson
February 26 2010, 02:57PM
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Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach wrote:

You put Horcoff and our 1st on the table and he is gone in a second.

And I wasn't suggesting the trade but stating that if we want to open up money there is always a way. NJ had no cap space and traded Malahkov(injuried) and a 1st to San Jose.

That would cause riots in the streets. Rexall would be burned to the ground.

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#99 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
February 26 2010, 02:59PM
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Matt Henderson wrote:

That would cause riots in the streets. Rexall would be burned to the ground.

But it essentially disproves the endless "he's unmovable" claims.

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#100 Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach
February 26 2010, 03:02PM
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Matt Henderson wrote:

That would cause riots in the streets. Rexall would be burned to the ground.

So by actually doing that we are solving to problems, Horcoff gone and insurance money for a new arena.

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