ROSTER REVIEW

Jason Gregor
April 18 2010 10:03PM

A week has passed since the Oilers finished their worst season ever. I know statistically they had more points than the 1993 team, but there was no shootouts then, so let’s not argue semantics. This season sucked worse than any other, plain and simple.

So let’s now look ahead to next season. If I had asked these questions last week I think most of you would have said something to the effect of "unload all of these mother *&(&(*)@ piece of &*)*(@ players and take the management with them"

While that might have been valid, we know it isn’t realistic. In the short term the Oilers need to look at the next steps of what amounts to a complete overhaul of the team.

The Summer of Steve officially began last Wednesday when Tambellini said he wouldn’t put up with whiny, selfish, non-courageous and anti-Edmonton players. It’s one thing to say it, now we need to see him implement this new found outlook. I don’t expect him to call me this summer to ask for my advice, but I’m sure the OilersNation is saved on his browser so here’s what I think the Oilers will do this off-season.

(Note: Steve feel free to call or text me if I’m way off-base, you have my number.)

Many of you would love to buy out 19 players, four coaches, eight scouts and all the managers; hell someone even emailed me stating it’s time Paul Lorieau gets the boot, but we know Tambellini can’t gut the entire team in one five-month span. Here’s what the Oilers will do, okay should do, this summer.

GOALTENDING

 

Many think Nikolai Khabibulin was a brutal signing last summer, and coupled with his back surgery and drunk driving charge, it looks even worse, but buying him out would cripple the team even more, so the only option is to stick with him for the time being.

The real question here is who do you keep as the back up, Jeff Deslauriers or Devan Dubnyk?

Neither has proven they can be a consistent NHL goalie, but both have shown they can win a game by themselves. Deslauriers is more athletic, Dubnyk is more technical and that’s why I’d go with Dubnyk. He’s a bit younger and Deslauriers will probably fetch you more in a trade. Not a lot more, but maybe a 4th or 5th rounder instead of just losing him to the waiver wire in October.

Tambellini could wait and hope that every team will have two goalies they like coming out of training camp and Deslauriers might slide through waivers, but I don’t see that happening. Tambellini’s best option is to move him during the summer and get a mid to late round pick in return.

OUT OF THE GATE: Khabibulin and Dubnyk

DEFENCE

Tom Gilbert, Ryan Whitney and Ladislav Smid are obvious keepers at this point, but after that it gets difficult to think you will return. Taylor Chorney needs to get stronger and another half-season in the AHL won’t hurt him. Theo Peckham is close, but if he is here he is a number six at best. Tambellini will try to get a number four D-man in return for Sheldon Souray and if he gets one that doesn’t come with a $4 million cap hit, he’ll be happy.

The tough decision will be deciding on who they keep between Jason Strudwick and Aaron Johnson. If it was just an on ice decision they’d go with Johnson, but Strudwick is much respected and in tune with the younger players, and they need a veteran like that for at least one more year. Ideally Strudwick would only play around 40 games, but his value will come more in the dressing room than on the ice. Anyone who doesn’t think that element (professionalism) is necessary for this team moving forward hasn’t been paying attention.

OUT OF THE GATE: I see Smid, Whitney, Gilbert, Strudwick and Peckham returning for sure along with a stay-at-home defenceman from the Souray deal. Then Tambellini will try to bring in a number five and if he can’t they might have to settle for Johnson for one year.

CENTRE

Shawn Horcoff and Sam Gagner are locks to return, but they other positions will be debated heavily. If management chooses Tyler Seguin (which I think they will) he rounds out the top three and that leaves Marc Pouliot and Ryan Potulny to battle for the 4th line spot. Or does it? The Oilers could use a 4th line centre with some intensity, but I still think still need one of Potulny or Pouliot, just not both.

Even if they draft Taylor Hall, they still shouldn’t keep both. They need more of an identity in their bottom six, and having Potulny and Pouliot doesn’t solve that. Potulny had a great start, and no one saw him scoring 15 goals, but his play dipped drastically in the final 30 games and I don’t see him matching those goal totals, because he won’t get close to the same amount of PP time. The Oilers can’t keep both moving forward, because they are essentially the same player. Pouliot skates better, Potulny finishes better, but neither is overly physical, but Pouliot has learned to at least use his size to rub the odd guy off the puck.

Tambellini chose Pouliot over Brodziak last year, but he can’t make the same mistake this season. I’d keep Potulny and move Pouliot at the draft.

OUT OF THE GATE: Horcoff, Gagner, Seguin, Potulny and veteran UFA signing.

WINGERS

 

Trading Ales Hemsky for the 2nd pick is a pipe dream for Oiler fans, and while I’m not convinced Hemsky will be here long-term, he’ll be here next September. Dustin Penner is a no-brainer to return and Gilbert Brule is the other winger I’d keep on a supposed scoring line. After those three it gets really interesting.

If the Oilers surprise me (not that it would be bad to select Hall, I just don’t think they will at this point) and take Hall then the decision is easy. But since I don’t think he’ll be here, they still need another scorer and the options look to be one of Jordan Eberle, MPS, Andrew Cogliano, Linus Omark, Robert Nilsson, Jaromir Jagr or other.

You’ll notice I didn’t even mention Patrick O’Sullivan, because I don’t see any way he returns to Edmonton. They will either trade him or buy him out. They’d keep Nilsson over him at this point. It might cause uproar in the Oil-blogosphere, but Eberle is not a lock to make this team coming out of camp. If he earns it they will find a spot for him, but if he is just average in the preseason, they won’t hesitate to give him 40 games in the AHL to hone is game.

There is no way the Oilers want to rush any of their top offensive prospects next season, despite the barrage of hate mail they will receive from over-zealous fans wearing Eberle jerseys next season. MPS and Omark are the most difficult to gauge at this point. Many feel both are ready to play next year, but there is only room for one of them to start the season. Omark has committed to playing in North America next season, while as of today there is no guarantee MPS will choose the AHL over the SEL.

I threw in Jagr because I’m still not 100% sold that this team will go completely with youth, and the allure of Jagr teaching showing their young offensive guys some tricks-of-the-trade might be too much for Tambellini and company to resist. My head tells me no, but like that annoying buddy who buys you two shots at last call, sometimes guys make impulsive decisions that seem good at the time but ultimately don’t pan out. I think Jagr coming here is about a 30/70 chance. Prove me wrong Steve. Nilsson just doesn’t fit in moving forward, and while buy outs aren't the best option all the time, in this case it probably makes sense.

I don’t see Andrew Cogliano playing here next season. No one has told me this flat out, but when Pat Quinn was talking about players worrying about who they play with, Cogliano’s name popped into my head. Cogliano could easily become a 20-25 goal scorer with another organization, and that’s why he has value on the trade market, but they have too many small, soft, supposedly-skilled forwards and someone has to go. Cogliano will be that guy, and I think they’ll address their lack of size by sending Cogliano packing.

GRIT, ATTITUDE, GRIT and NASTINESS

The Oilers biggest void is an identity in their bottom six forwards. For the past four years they haven’t had enough guys willing to be puck-hounds every shift, and that’s exactly what they need. Until the young talent, becomes proven scoring talent the Oilers need their bottom four wingers to make life difficult for the opposition. The problem is these types of wingers are a rarity so realistically Tambellini might only be able to nab one this summer.

Zach Stortini is limited in his game, but his game has slowly improved over the years, he’ll continue that over the summer. If he could gain even a quarter step of foot speed he’d be able to finish more hits and make life harder on opposing D-men. He knows his role and is under contract for another year.

J.F Jacques led the Oilers in hits, 158, despite playing only 49 games. His back is a question mark, but he proved this season that he finally understands the need to be physical every game. He skates well for a big-man, and if he can stay healthy he could morph into a 3rd liner. Of course that is a big if, and that’s why they will need another forward who can fill in for Jacques when he misses the odd game. Tambellini has to find some depth amongst his physical wingers.

The Oilers had a measly three players with 100+ hits, which is why they rarely had the puck in the offensive zone for any extended period of time. Once they lost it, they didn’t have the ability to get it back via a check.

Many, including Ethan Moreau, thought the captain would be gone at the trade deadline, but that didn’t happen and his strong finish could see him start the year in Edmonton . Moreau was humbled at the deadline when no one was willing to trade for him, and he seemed to find the game that made him effective for the previous ten seasons in Edmonton . Moreau can only be effective playing one way; Tenacious. If he doesn’t play with emotion then he looks like he did for the first 60 games this year; Horrendous.

Three months ago I would have said there was no way he’d be here in September, but now I think you’ll see him start the season in Edmonton .

Ryan Jones and Ryan Stone will battle for one of the two extra forward spots. There isn’t room for both and they are essentially the same type of player. Both will come to camp, but only one will survive. The wild card in this equation is Mike Comrie.

Comrie wants to play here next year, and only Dustin Penner averaged more goals per game than Comrie last year. His competitive fire is what would make him valuable next season. This roster will have at least three and maybe four small, skilled forwards who could learn a lot from how Comrie plays. He goes to the tough areas to score goals, he doesn’t shy away and he stands up for himself. His biggest asset might be that he has proven he can produce with limited minutes.

He doesn’t need to play 18 minutes a night to score 20 goals. His presence would also push the young guys to produce; otherwise he might take their spot for a game here or there. His versatility, experience and reasonable salary should have him back in Oiler silks next season.

The debate will also rage on during the summer about Potulny and Pouliot. If I am making the call I would take the guy who blew through every single expectation he had going into the season registering15 goals and 17 assists for 32 in 64 games over a guy who has had four years to prove he wants to stay on this roster and has done little in this regard. 

But that's just me.

OUT OF THE GATE: Hemsky, Penner, Brule, Stortini, Moreau, Jacques, Eberle, Stone, Comrie and off-season UFA signing.

NET SUM GAME

If you are skipping to the end of this murder mystery novel all this means Sheldon Souray, Robert Nilsson, Patrick O’Sullivan, Fernando Pisani, Aaron Johnson and Andrew Cogliano won’t be back.

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One of Canada's most versatile sports personalities. Jason hosts The Jason Gregor Show, weekdays from 2 to 6 p.m., on TSN 1260, and he writes a column every Monday in the Edmonton Journal. You can follow him on Twitter at twitter.com/JasonGregor
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#51 Hemmertime
April 19 2010, 11:00AM
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I want Jagr because Hemsky wants Jagr, and I want a happy Hemsky. That and Jagr has the right mentality, he said he would be one of the best third liners in the NHL if he couldn't play first line minutes or produce as well.

All he has to do is move his fat arse to the correct place on the power play and be able to one time the puck better than Horcoff (and being honest, a 50 year old Jagr probably could) and he will produce.

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#52 OilFan
April 19 2010, 11:02AM
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@Jason Gregor

Thanks Jason. What kind a player do you think Cogs would get us in a trade ? Is Cogs a good enough asset to add Nilsson or POS in any trade ? I like Pouliot but I agree with you Potulny seems to deserve the contarct more. By keeping Comrie it's another small forward.

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#53 Crash
April 19 2010, 11:05AM
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Jason Gregor wrote:

Get over the Barry Fraser era of draft picks. Stu MacGregor had nothing to do with those picks.

It's a hard job trying to "predict" how a player will pan out three to five years down the road, that's why it is so difficult.

And Seguin has been ranked high all year, it's just that over the course of the season, some scouts think his game has a potential higher ceiling than Hall at the NHL level.

Either player will help the team, but I'd bet Hall will have a better first NHL season, but in five years, that won't matter.

Compare Ovechkin to Crosby. Ovie won the Calder, and is a more dynamic goal scorer, but who has been to two Cups? Flashier doesn't always mean better.

My point had nothing to do with Barry Frasier and more to do with how quickly the opinions of the scouts changes over a very short period of time nevermind 3 yrs down the road...

My point is the same as you mention in your second paragraph about it's a hard job to "predict" how a player will pan out three to five years down the road.

Why would you bet that Hall will have a better first NHL season? That would be the reason for taking him. If he's better in his first season then why couldn't he be better in his 3rd season.

You're right, it may not matter and yes they'll both probably be great players but this notion of taking Seguin over Hall because the scouts "think" he will be better 3 yrs from now when they can't even figure out which one is better over 6 months is crazy.

As far as cups go you can't judge individual players based on the number of cups....cups take good teams not just a good individual...

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#54 OilFan
April 19 2010, 11:06AM
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@Hemmertime

I think the Jagr rumor started at Hockeybuzz. Why bring in a 40 year old that will want big money ?

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#55 David S
April 19 2010, 11:07AM
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Is there any way to arrange comments so that questions that have been asked a million times already get ranked in a special "redundant reading section"?

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#56 Archaeologuy
April 19 2010, 11:14AM
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OilFan wrote:

I think the Jagr rumor started at Hockeybuzz. Why bring in a 40 year old that will want big money ?

I think the Jagr rumour started when he said the Oilers were really interested him and he liked that.

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#57 Team Hall
April 19 2010, 11:29AM
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An informal Mackenzie poll revealed that 7 out of 10 nhl scouts prefer Hall to Seguin. But the Oilers scouts are much smarter than the rest of the nhl, so they will pick Seguin.

I get the sick feeling that Hall will turn into a Kane, and Seguin into a Turris. Oh, but just give it 5-10 years, then we'll see, then we'll see....mwahhahahahaha

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#58 Archaeologuy
April 19 2010, 11:33AM
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@Team Hall

7 out of 10 NHL scouts, but both the ISS and NHL Central Scouting have him at #1. So no. The Oilers' scouts arent smarter than everyone else, they just happen to agree with 2/3 of the major Juniour Scouting services.

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#59 Team Hall
April 19 2010, 11:38AM
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Yes, you make a good point. But here is a number for you: CSS final draft rankings, 2007: #1 Turris, Kyle #2 Kane, Patrick

It was a can't miss draft, with two outstanding picks. Only difference was one was a right shot centre, so they put him first...and now you know, the rest of the story

Paul Harvey

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#60 Crash
April 19 2010, 11:38AM
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@Team Hall

What scares me is passing on the better player now with the thought being scouts "think" the other player is going to become better in 3 to 5 yrs...

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#61 michael clarke
April 19 2010, 11:38AM
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Bulin. What a train wreck. Dubnyk will be the number1 by game 40 after Bulin has shown his back is no longer up to the wear and tear of the NHL. Thankyou. For nothing. Keeping Bulin is like wanting to keep a STD. It only get worse the longer you let it go on.

I like Strudwick. Absolutely sign him again. But give A. Johnson the 6 spot. I liked his play well enough down the stretch and he is hungry.

I am taking Hall. So my thirdline center is Comrie and Potulny is on the forth. Pouliot has not done enough to justify another contract in my opinion.

Hemsky is done. Columbus would take him in a heartbeat. Nash needs that kind of support. I believe that Howson does the deal for his first pick this year. And if we are lucky Filatov gets thrown in because it does not look like he wants to play in Columbus.

I go out and sign a free agent who can fulfill the tough guy role. But he plays in the AHL. The young players they are going to get will need that kind of presence in the lineup in OKC next season. The Oilers then have plan B if they feel that their team toughness plan is not working.

Off season is going to be great.

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#62 OilFan
April 19 2010, 11:38AM
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@Archaeologuy

I think that was two years ago. But I just don't see the need for a high prices over aged player

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#63 Victor
April 19 2010, 11:41AM
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I've heard that Jagr has talked to the Oilers but that he doesn't like the money they are offering him. I wouldn't mind bringing in Jagr for a year to take some pressure off the younger players.

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#64 SkinnyD
April 19 2010, 11:42AM
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I know it'll seem like crazy talk to many, but with the talent we seem to have coming down the pipe I'd keep Cogliano over Hemsky. Cogliano has a lot of upside...speed to burn...and consistently produces when we don't expect him to (kinda like Mike Comrie).

Hemmer, though I love him dearly, has a bum shoulder and there's a real good chance he tests the UFA market and doesn't come back. I say make the blockbuster trade...get the stay-at-home-D-man for Hemsky, and just take your lumps and get a bad contract back for Souray - hopefully one that's up in a year or two.

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#65 Archaeologuy
April 19 2010, 11:44AM
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Team Hall wrote:

Yes, you make a good point. But here is a number for you: CSS final draft rankings, 2007: #1 Turris, Kyle #2 Kane, Patrick

It was a can't miss draft, with two outstanding picks. Only difference was one was a right shot centre, so they put him first...and now you know, the rest of the story

Paul Harvey

1 year. Feed me more and I'll start to be more concerned. Otherwise they're record is good.

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#66 Team Hall
April 19 2010, 11:44AM
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@ Crash. You are one of the few who gets it. The Oilers have a crystal ball, so they know exactly how good each will be in 5-10 years.

Who cares that one is dominating the other now, because in the "future", the tables will turn. This is a fact. Why go with a proven commodity when you can just read the future tea leaves?

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#67 Archaeologuy
April 19 2010, 11:46AM
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Crash wrote:

What scares me is passing on the better player now with the thought being scouts "think" the other player is going to become better in 3 to 5 yrs...

Hall isnt objectively better than Seguin and "thinking" that player X will be better than player Y 3 years from now is exactly what scouts are paid to do.

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#68 Team Hall
April 19 2010, 11:48AM
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@archeologuy You drive a hard bargain. OK, here's something that might tickle your fancy:

2006 final CSS rankings: 1. Johnson, Erik 2. Staal, Jordy 3.Toews, Jonathan

That Toews is a bum, we all know defenseman are more valuable.

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#69 mowgli
April 19 2010, 11:51AM
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Pouliot over Potulny. Hard player over soft player.

Sturdwick needs to go. OK so Struds and his wife can sing a mean song at the chirstmas partys, is that the professionalism this team needs.

An Eberle to the AHL, how long of a rebuild is this, do we another 1st over all next year to.

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#70 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
April 19 2010, 11:51AM
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Team Hall wrote:

@ Crash. You are one of the few who gets it. The Oilers have a crystal ball, so they know exactly how good each will be in 5-10 years.

Who cares that one is dominating the other now, because in the "future", the tables will turn. This is a fact. Why go with a proven commodity when you can just read the future tea leaves?

I'm firmly in "team Hall", but you are trying to protray this situation like the team is going off board here.

Seguin is ranked #1.

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#71 Victor
April 19 2010, 11:54AM
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Struds is a good #7. Unfortunately, with all the injuries, #7 on this team means you play 70 games.

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#72 Team Hall
April 19 2010, 11:58AM
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@mowgli

100% agree with you. We've kept these nice guy players around for too long, and it got us no where. Eberle needs to go to the AHL, despite what Barnes clamours for without rational thought. Sign dependable, low level vets at bargain prices to support the youth. Pouliot over Potulny is a good bet too.

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#73 Crash
April 19 2010, 11:59AM
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Archaeologuy wrote:

Hall isnt objectively better than Seguin and "thinking" that player X will be better than player Y 3 years from now is exactly what scouts are paid to do.

With all due respects to scouts...they can't make up their minds which players are better than others from 6 months ago nevermind 3 yrs from now...

Just look at any draft years top 30 rankings and let me know how the scouts are making out on them over the years.

My only point is I wish the Oilers scouts would figure out who is better right NOW and take that player...

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#74 Archaeologuy
April 19 2010, 12:00PM
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@Team Hall

1) Johnson has 72 points as a Defenseman in 2 seasons

2) Staal has a Cup Ring and had 29 goals as a rookie

3) Toews will have a Cup ring soon*

*Uses time machine to double check this statement

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#75 Archaeologuy
April 19 2010, 12:01PM
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@Crash

6 months is equivalent to 1 season. For a 17-18 yr old, that's a lot.

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Didn't McKenzie say 7 of 10 scouts who's teams are picking in the top 10 would take Hall?

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@Archaeologuy

I suspect if Johnson didn't miss a whole year he'd also be in a lot better shape and people would give him the respect he deserves.

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#78 Mouse
April 19 2010, 12:10PM
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Team Hall wrote:

@archeologuy You drive a hard bargain. OK, here's something that might tickle your fancy:

2006 final CSS rankings: 1. Johnson, Erik 2. Staal, Jordy 3.Toews, Jonathan

That Toews is a bum, we all know defenseman are more valuable.

Erik Johnson is a huge stud, and will be a Norris candidate for the bulk of his career. If he didn't play in St Louis, he would get much more press. His progress was set back a year due to a tragic golf cart accident in the pre season before the 08/09 season. Those guys are hardly flops compared to Toews.

Don't get me wrong though, I would still take Toews over the other two in a heatbeat. My mancrush is growing with every game I see him play.

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#79 Ducey
April 19 2010, 12:16PM
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Neither Strudwick OR Johnson should be in the mix for the top 6 defence.

They are in competition for the #7 press box guy.

The Oilers are going to need to bring in two more Dmen and add in Peckham as the #6.

They have some depth coming along with Arsene, Plante, Motin, Petry, and Chorney (who hopefully gets some more seasoning) so they ought to be able to cover some injuries.

In this senario Strudwick is clearly the man over Johnson. He is a good leader, is used to the job, is tough (so can be plugged in to deal with Boogard or someone for a game) and works hard in practice. He loves the City too.

As well, the math likes Struds over Johnson. I would lay it out for you but Gregor tells me it doesn't matter. So just take my opinion instead.

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#80 Team Hall
April 19 2010, 12:40PM
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@Wes Mantooth,

Easy big guy, I didnt mean to insult your wonderful mother, Dorothy Mantooth, I was just trying to make a point that CSS final rankings are not gospel, and shouldnt be cited as such.

My apologies

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#81 Crash
April 19 2010, 12:44PM
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I find it interesing that many just buy into what the scouts are saying because afterall it's what they get paid for...even though scouts have made numerous mistakes over the years.

Yet many of those same people don't hesitate to question coaches and management teams that also get paid and have been doing the job a lot longer than those doing the questioning.

Why is that?

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#82 Team Hall
April 19 2010, 12:47PM
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@Crash,

You are treading on dangerous territory. Don't you dare ever question scouts or CSS final rankings, they are never wrong. And neither is the government, rest their souls.

I want you to acknowledge that Kyle Turris is better than Patrick Kane, and Erik Johnson is making Jonathan Toews look like a 3rd overall pick.

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#83 Archaeologuy
April 19 2010, 12:58PM
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@Crash

You can accuse me of agreeing with the CSS scouts because that's their job (although you know I've been on the Seguin band wagon well before those rankings), but the only evidence you keep bringing up is Turris V Kane and 2006.

Turris/Kane is clearly wrong right now, but the draft of 2006 is a weak argument. It might even be an argument in my favor. Staal vs Toews, better now vs better later. Staal (who is very good) was a better player at 18. The kid played in the NHL, scored 29 goals in fact. Toews? Not so much. While Toews was playing in the WJHC Staal was busy in the NHL. Better now vs Better later. Since that initial season of 2006/2007 who has been better? Toews, IMO.

Better now or Better later? Hall/Staal or Seguin/Toews?

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#84 Robin Brownlee
April 19 2010, 01:00PM
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Jason Gregor wrote:

Were you wearing your Canucks pajamas when you fell down the stairs??

And I don't want Jagr, but until this managment group's actions match their words I wouldn't be stunned with them still trying for a big-hitter, rather than a patient re-build.

No, but my Stan Smyl lunchkit is smashed all to hell.

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#85 Word
April 19 2010, 01:03PM
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Crash and Team Hall, though I somewhat agree on picking Hall, I'm having serious trouble subcribing to your newsletter.

Let me get this straight:

The Scouts were wrong before, so we should ignore what they say and go with #2 or #3, because that pick will pan out better since it's not what the scouts think is best, and since scouts are sometimes wrong, by doing the opposite you're always right..?

You guys should write a book and sell your fool proof theory. You can call it "The doctrine of if someone has ever been wrong, do the opposite of what they say and you'll always be right." Of course, if one of you ever end up being wrong, we'll be in quite the predicament of having no options left...

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#86 Chickenplucker
April 19 2010, 01:08PM
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@Team Hall

Why, in your opinion, is Hall so much better than Seguin?

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#87 Hemmertime
April 19 2010, 01:09PM
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Word wrote:

Crash and Team Hall, though I somewhat agree on picking Hall, I'm having serious trouble subcribing to your newsletter.

Let me get this straight:

The Scouts were wrong before, so we should ignore what they say and go with #2 or #3, because that pick will pan out better since it's not what the scouts think is best, and since scouts are sometimes wrong, by doing the opposite you're always right..?

You guys should write a book and sell your fool proof theory. You can call it "The doctrine of if someone has ever been wrong, do the opposite of what they say and you'll always be right." Of course, if one of you ever end up being wrong, we'll be in quite the predicament of having no options left...

Actually the director of CSS has said that they are split on Hall or Seguin, and the only reason Seguin is #1 is because when tied they went with the right handed shot centre.

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#88 Crash
April 19 2010, 01:12PM
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Archaeologuy wrote:

You can accuse me of agreeing with the CSS scouts because that's their job (although you know I've been on the Seguin band wagon well before those rankings), but the only evidence you keep bringing up is Turris V Kane and 2006.

Turris/Kane is clearly wrong right now, but the draft of 2006 is a weak argument. It might even be an argument in my favor. Staal vs Toews, better now vs better later. Staal (who is very good) was a better player at 18. The kid played in the NHL, scored 29 goals in fact. Toews? Not so much. While Toews was playing in the WJHC Staal was busy in the NHL. Better now vs Better later. Since that initial season of 2006/2007 who has been better? Toews, IMO.

Better now or Better later? Hall/Staal or Seguin/Toews?

I haven't mentioned anything about Turris vs Kane but it is eerily (spelling?) similar to this years Seguin vs. Hall.

I'm not sure why you'd say Staal was a better player at 18, I don't see the where the evidence is to support that...wasn't Toews a standout on the Canadian world jr team? Was it his choice to spend one more year in college? It's a bit tougher to compare 2 guys when one is in college and the other is in junior...Staal wasn't a standout player in junior, he only averaged one ppg.

In any event I just wanted to point out that scouts aren't above being questioned...

Kudos to you for being on the Seguin bandwagon from the outset.

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#89 OilFan
April 19 2010, 01:13PM
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Why can't people just get it The Oilers are leaning towards Seguin. They don't have a first line center in the system. First line centerman are hard to get. Don't the Oilers already have a bunch of wingers?

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#90 quicksilver ballet
April 19 2010, 01:17PM
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Any support for bringing in Carey Price?

If there was ever a time he may be available this could be it. The Habs have settled into Halak now that Gainey isn't there to defend Price. Carey could settle in at around 2.5 per, so having him and Habby, till he calls it quits may be tollerable.

....anyone else like this idea?

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#91 Crash
April 19 2010, 01:20PM
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Word wrote:

Crash and Team Hall, though I somewhat agree on picking Hall, I'm having serious trouble subcribing to your newsletter.

Let me get this straight:

The Scouts were wrong before, so we should ignore what they say and go with #2 or #3, because that pick will pan out better since it's not what the scouts think is best, and since scouts are sometimes wrong, by doing the opposite you're always right..?

You guys should write a book and sell your fool proof theory. You can call it "The doctrine of if someone has ever been wrong, do the opposite of what they say and you'll always be right." Of course, if one of you ever end up being wrong, we'll be in quite the predicament of having no options left...

You're missing the point...it seems many are stating that because the scouts have Seguin rated number one that he is the best...all we're pointing out is that the scouts are above being questioned (just like coaches and management of NHL teams) and that they have been wrong before (many times) and they will be wrong again.

The news letter has been well documented over the last few weeks and it's not just about scouts. There have been many reasons stated as to why people like Hall over Seguin and they are likely similar to the reasons you already have.

To me it's all about the evidence as if it were a court of law as to what we've seen so far from the 2 players in question yet when the reasons are brought up we get to hear how it is the scouts say Seguin so it must be true...this leads to the questioning of scouts. So examples are given that show that the scouts do get it wrong and you can't just go by what the scouts say.

So why do you like Hall better when the scouts are saying that Seguin is #1?

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#92 Tracie
April 19 2010, 01:23PM
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Someone compared Hall/Seguin to Kane/Toews...Both have fantastic upside, both are pretty equal when it comes to point production and being stars and carrying their team but if you had to pick one, who would you pick? Well since we already have a pretty good winger in Eberle, wouldn't it be awesome to have a center like Seguin play with him? I am still on the fence with both players, I'd like both of them...but if I had to choose, I think right now I'm leaning towards Seguin b/c if they are THAT close, then why not fill a need and go with the natural center? Just my thoughts...

Also, if we are comparing Crosby/Ovechkin, then, and it pains me to say this, I would take Crosby, b/c he has definitely imporved his game over the last few years...Ovechkin is still great, and entertaining and is a fantastic player to watch, but Crosby is a better all-around player...so again, I'd go with center...

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#93 Rusty Duggan
April 19 2010, 01:24PM
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OilFan wrote:

Why can't people just get it The Oilers are leaning towards Seguin. They don't have a first line center in the system. First line centerman are hard to get. Don't the Oilers already have a bunch of wingers?

Hey Oilfan, I asked Maty what the word was on MPS versus HALL and he is under the impression (from the scout) that MPS plays like Milan Michelak. Don't teams need a first line LW too?

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#94 BBOil
April 19 2010, 01:25PM
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I say we go a similar route as Phoenix and start signing dependable free agents to relatively cheap 1-2yr deals. I'd be looking at guys like Ryan Johnson, Eric Nystrom, Mike Grier, etc...... Guys that can add grit and kill penalties, and that when trade deadline come can fetch a bit in return for teams looking to make a push.

As much as I like Cogs, I say shop him and see if you couldn't put something together for a big winger like Horton or that stay at home D-man.

Let Jacques, Stone, Potulny, Pouliot, etc walk or get what you can for them. In the end I say get some vets to fill some holes, leave a couple spots open for the young guys to fight over, and let them know coming into camp we have X spots open for the young guys and its up to them to decide who makes the team.

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#95 Rusty Duggan
April 19 2010, 01:27PM
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Rusty Duggan wrote:

Hey Oilfan, I asked Maty what the word was on MPS versus HALL and he is under the impression (from the scout) that MPS plays like Milan Michelak. Don't teams need a first line LW too?

Also, Penner and Hemmer are gonna be gone at the same time and for the same reasons. Those mysterious reasons are still unknown, but you can ask about 5 to ten players that have came through here recently that know what's going on.

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#96 Rusty Duggan
April 19 2010, 01:32PM
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Who in there right mind thinks that Penner will ever be back after his contract is up ? He will pull the same stunt that others have, mind you he'll keep it behind closed doors.

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#97 Bucknuck
April 19 2010, 01:39PM
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1. Oilers scouting has been doing pretty good since the Barry (Bonsignore) Fraser days. Most of their high end picks are playing NHL hockey, which is what is supposed to happen. Hemsky, Cogliano, Gagner, Pouliot, Shremp, Stortini, Dubnyk, Deslauriers, Stoll, Greene and Brodziak are all playing NHL hockey these days. Eberle is a very exciting prospect and he was a late first rounder.

2. Hall And Seguin are very close. The perception that Hall is dominant over Seguin isn't based on reality. ISS could have gone either way, so Oilers really have to do their own home work and if they pick either of them they are not "going off the board". Seguin had more goals that Hall, so this vision of Hall being the sniper and Seguin being the playmaker is also not based on reality.

3. Any player in the top five could be the best. It is vey hard to speculate which is why scouts get paid lots of money to watch these guys and make judgements. I sure hope that the Oilers pick right, but I am sure the reasons for their decision will not be based on some half-baked hunch. They will weight pros and cons and take an educated guess. I hope that they make up their own mind based upon the consensus.

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#98 dragon
April 19 2010, 01:43PM
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I'm a Scientist! wrote:

I think there is a major misunderstanding here. Are we not talking about the Oilers managment? The EXACT same Oilers management that has done squat the last couple of years? Here is how I see our lines at the begining of the season:

Penner - Horcoff - Hemsky Brule - Gagner - Nilsson Moreau - Pouliot - Pisani Stortini - Potulny - Cogliano

They will also have POS on reserve, Souray will still be here and all three goalies will stick around.

Book it.

Props.

...and the eloquent Mr. Tamelini will say:

"now that we have all our key players healthy and that Moreau showed us leadership when everything was lost (2010 last 15 games) we will be a contender again"

~ the same way we were when we started 2010 season, you know, before the injury bug attacked us ~

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#99 Archaeologuy
April 19 2010, 01:43PM
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@Bucknuck

Take your reasonable thoughts elsewhere, Sir. They are not welcome here ;)

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#100 rubbertrout
April 19 2010, 01:44PM
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@Jason Gregor

Compare Ovechkin to Crosby. Ovie won the Calder, and is a more dynamic goal scorer, but who has been to two Cups? Flashier doesn't always mean better.

Going to two cups doesn't mean better either. It means he was on a better team. Given the choice between both of them I'd bet that over 2/3 of the managers in the league would take Ovie over Crosby.

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