Taylor or Tyler? 66 more days...

Jason Gregor
April 20 2010 06:17PM

2010 Home Hardware CHL-NHL Top Prospects Game

The Taylor or Tyler debate will rage for another 66 days until the Oilers draft one of them, but it won’t stop there and it will surely intensify over the next ten seasons, especially if one of them becomes much more proficient.

I respect the guys or gals who have chosen Hall or Seguin, because I hate fence sitters. Pick why you like one and defend it to the death. I find it interesting how TEAM HALL has used Kyle Turris as an example of why you should stay away from Seguin. Like I said, when you are battling your point, you reach for any example that can help you. Good on you TEAM HALL, although the Turris/Seguin comparison is a major stretch in my opinion.

Due to the position and style of how Hall and Seguin play it was only natural to see this debate morph into the Crosby v. Ovechkin argument. I don’t think Hall or Seguin will be as dominant as Crosby or Ovechkin, but you can make the comparison based on their position and style of play. Seguin is more like Crosby, while Hall is more dynamic like Ovechkin.

I’ve said for years that Ovechkin is my favourite player to watch, but I don’t think he is better than Crosby. Which resulted in these types of responses:

Hemmertime: I'd take Ovechkin any day over Crosby. Swap them cities and put OV with Malkin and company and maybe he has a cup ring.

Crosby has elevated his game this year adding goal scoring, however when OV wants to take over a game, his hitting, shooting and endurance puts him in a class of his own.

RubberTrout: Based on the fact that he is a better overall offensive player? Based on the fact that he is more physical? Lots of things. It isn't just scoring goals. Ovie makes his teammates better too you know. Just because you say Crosby is better doesn't mean that is the gospel truth.

Gents what makes you think Ovechkin is a better overall offensive player?

Career numbers for Crosby in 371 games played he’s averaged 1.36 pts/game. Ovechkin in 396 games averages 1.33 pts/game.

Ovechkin is a better pure goal scorer and is more physical. He should be, considering he is three inches taller and 30 pounds heavier, but is offensive game doesn’t produce more points and unlike Crosby, Ovechkin’s game hasn’t improved the last few seasons?

This past summer after winning the Cup, Crosby said he needed to be a better goal scorer and improve his faceoffs. And what does he do this past season? He ends up leading the league in goals, and was 55.7% in the dot. He also took the most faceoffs in the entire league. He impacts the game more than Ovechkin.

The argument that Crosby has Malkin and that makes him better is weak. Crosby doesn't PLAY regularly with Malkin. Ovechkin plays with Backstrom and look at their point totals the past two seasons. Do you think that Malkin is that much better than Backstrom??

Malkin tallied 190 points to Backstrom’s 189. Not much difference.

You guys suggest that Crosby has a better supporting cast, but the only major difference has been in goal. Marc Andre Fleury is clearly better than Theodore or Varlamov, but compare the offensive depth of the Capitals and Penguins and it favours the Capitals.

Penguins 2010 Capitals 2010
Crosby 109 Ovechkin 109
Malkin 77 Backstrom 101
Gonchar 50 Semin 84
Staal 49 Green 76
Guerin 45 Laich 59
    Knuble 53
    Fleischmann 51
       
Penguins 2009   Capitals 2009  
Malkin 113 Ovechkin 110
Crosby 103 Backstrom 88
Staal 49 Semin 79
Sykora 46 Green 73
Fedotenko 39 Laich 53

Crosby doesn’t have close to the offensive supporting cast that Ovechkin has, yet you claim Crosby has the advantage playing in Pittsburgh. I’d love to know what makes you think Fleury helps him produce more points? Fleury has given Crosby a better chance of winning, but the goalie doesn’t impact his offensive points. If anything you can say that Crosby plays a bigger role in his team’s success than Ovechkin does in Washington.

Ovechkin scores more highlight reel goals, and I think that has influenced many people into thinking he is the best player in the game. Ovechkin is the best goal-scorer, but he is not a better offensive player than Crosby. Offence is a combination of goal scoring and play making and Crosby is better at this stage of the game.

Crosby hones his skills in the off-season and his all-around game is far superior to Ovechkin’s. Ovechkin has a magnetic personality and his style of play is very entertaining and that’s what makes him so likeable, and probably why fans love him. Like I said, he’s my favourite player, but I don’t think he is the best player.

Both are great players and I’m more of a fan of Ovechkin's style of game, but if I want to win I'd pick Crosby first. His track record is better and his willingness to improve his game is much higher than Ovechkin’s. And in the NHL winning is the most important thing, and while Crosby doesn’t have the flair, personality or excitement of Ovechkin his game is more complete.

If you honestly think that 20 GMs would take Ovechkin ahead of Crosby you are sadly mistaken.

I also think that Hall’s bullish style makes him more attractive to many Oiler fans; as it should. This team could use a player like that, just like they could use a true #1 centre.

It should be a win-win situation for the Oilers, regardless of who they choose. But if the goal is to build a championship team, not just an exciting team, then leaning towards Seguin makes more sense.

Similar to why Crosby is a better -- not more exciting-- player than Ovechkin.

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One of Canada's most versatile sports personalities. Jason hosts The Jason Gregor Show, weekdays from 2 to 6 p.m., on TSN 1260, and he writes a column every Monday in the Edmonton Journal. You can follow him on Twitter at twitter.com/JasonGregor
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#101 Crash
April 21 2010, 11:23AM
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Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach wrote:

95% of the evidence that has been gathered on Hall and Seguin is hearsay. McKenzie and Mcguire both mentioned that they go off of what scouts have told them as they haven't seen either enough to make a decision.

Actual stats are not hearsay...actual head to head games are not hearsay...the interviews I heard on ched with both Hall and Seguin were not hearsay...the games I've watched that either of them played in were not hearsay...the stats from regular season play, playoffs and other games is not hearsay...the actual size of both players apparently isn't hearsay...the individual accomplishments of the two players is not hearsay...

I'm just saying there is evidence out there for people to formulate their own opinions without having to rely on someone else's opinion...I'm sure both McKenzie and McGuire really do have their own opinion of who they would take based on their own evaluating process.

I'm not saying anyone in particular is correct, all I'm saying is there is stuff out there for people to get a read on and formulate an opinion on them.

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#102 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
April 21 2010, 11:32AM
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BUCK75 wrote:

That's the sad truth. With guys like Stamkos, Tavares, Kane, Toews & even Doughty having such strong starts to their careers the bar is pretty high.

So when does the chaos start on Gagner?

"So when does the chaos start on Gagner?"

It's already started, you're seeing a few people coming out of the woodwork to bash him. I'm thinking he gets another year or two because he was only 6th overall though (vs the time frame the #1 overall gets).

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#103 Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach
April 21 2010, 11:35AM
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Crash wrote:

Actual stats are not hearsay...actual head to head games are not hearsay...the interviews I heard on ched with both Hall and Seguin were not hearsay...the games I've watched that either of them played in were not hearsay...the stats from regular season play, playoffs and other games is not hearsay...the actual size of both players apparently isn't hearsay...the individual accomplishments of the two players is not hearsay...

I'm just saying there is evidence out there for people to formulate their own opinions without having to rely on someone else's opinion...I'm sure both McKenzie and McGuire really do have their own opinion of who they would take based on their own evaluating process.

I'm not saying anyone in particular is correct, all I'm saying is there is stuff out there for people to get a read on and formulate an opinion on them.

Most of the experts Mackenzie, McGuire, Gregor, Brownlee etc... have said they are going from what they are told so that is hearsay.

Good for you in gather facts, but most people aren't gather much more facts then just stats and the few games they seen them play, which I don't fully count because being in the building is way different then watching it on TV.

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#104 Rusty Duggan
April 21 2010, 11:36AM
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Oil99 wrote:

I mentioned Heatley because I don't agree with some people and their comparison to Bure, but I also don't agree with people comparing Seguin to Stevie Y and/or Sakic.

In a article titled "Taylor or Tyler" I just said that Crosby and O.V should not even be mentioned.

I have been reading and coming to this site for a long time (only started posting now cause I couldn't take it anymore) because when you or Brownlee post it seems like a butt-kissing love-a-thon from the other posters.

God forbid someone ever disagree with you guys.

A whiny kid? I tend to be a little blunt and say it as I see it

The parallel is Taylor/O.V. are wingers and Seguin/SID are centers. You may be able to build your franchise around a winger providing he is dominant enough. The Oilers are praying for a franchise player in either the winger or the center, and Jason using the best examples in both O.V. and Sid.

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#105 Rusty Duggan
April 21 2010, 11:38AM
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Crash wrote:

Actual stats are not hearsay...actual head to head games are not hearsay...the interviews I heard on ched with both Hall and Seguin were not hearsay...the games I've watched that either of them played in were not hearsay...the stats from regular season play, playoffs and other games is not hearsay...the actual size of both players apparently isn't hearsay...the individual accomplishments of the two players is not hearsay...

I'm just saying there is evidence out there for people to formulate their own opinions without having to rely on someone else's opinion...I'm sure both McKenzie and McGuire really do have their own opinion of who they would take based on their own evaluating process.

I'm not saying anyone in particular is correct, all I'm saying is there is stuff out there for people to get a read on and formulate an opinion on them.

Skip.. Skip.. Skip.. Skip.. Skip.. Skip..

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#106 Crash
April 21 2010, 11:38AM
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Bucknuck wrote:

I don't think anyone said that debating the point was a bad thing. It's a lot of fun. It's the dart throw at people sitting on the fence that hit a nerve with me.

I love watching you guys duke it out. Jason is right - it makes for much more entertaining speculation for everyone. I will say that it can be irritating watching folks throw around their hot air and acting like it is fact.

"Hall is like Ovechkin, and Seguin is like Daigle. Ovie is better than Daigle so Hall will be better than Seguin." These kinds of arguments make me grit my teeth.

I must say that the debating at times can be enjoying or as you call it, duking it out, lol...what I don't like is how it sometimes gets personal when someone doesn't like your opinion and they say things like "what world are you living in" or "what you say is laughable" or "you are an idiot for thinking that"....or they actually tell you what you are thinking...or some don't even have a point they just go straight to the insults...

For the most part it's fun though and it looks like this debate is going to be a long one :)

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#107 rubbertrout
April 21 2010, 11:39AM
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@Bucknuck

I don't think Gregor really cares if you take a stance or not. If you do and it creates controversy then there are more comments posted which means more web hits which means more revenue for the site.

The media likes controversy because it generates interest which leads to more revenue.

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#108 JohnQPublic
April 21 2010, 11:40AM
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Good analysis. I'm buying into the Seguin logic, but Hall is awful tempting.

Fortunately, it looks like a win-win situation for draft #1 and #2.

p.s. - Crosby has really found another gear this year. Very inspiring.

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#109 Rob
April 21 2010, 11:41AM
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It is interesting to me to see how the draft has evolved into something huge in the salary cap era. There has always been a certain level of interest for me in who the Oil drafted and who was the number 1 pick was going to be in any given draft.

The draft is now a much more serious proposition with teams limited by the cap. You have to draft well and that means turning over every possible rock in each round. I wonder how much the scouting personnel and budgets have grown to accomplish that task?

Gone are the days of just writing a cheque to a free agent to make up for a pretty casual attitude at the draft table. No one can afford to buy their way out of their problems any more.

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#110 Bucknuck
April 21 2010, 11:42AM
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Crash wrote:

I must say that the debating at times can be enjoying or as you call it, duking it out, lol...what I don't like is how it sometimes gets personal when someone doesn't like your opinion and they say things like "what world are you living in" or "what you say is laughable" or "you are an idiot for thinking that"....or they actually tell you what you are thinking...or some don't even have a point they just go straight to the insults...

For the most part it's fun though and it looks like this debate is going to be a long one :)

Crash you have been doing a great job defending your opinion in a respectable way.

~ Even though your opinion is crap and I don't know what planet you are from~

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#111 Crash
April 21 2010, 11:43AM
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Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach wrote:

Most of the experts Mackenzie, McGuire, Gregor, Brownlee etc... have said they are going from what they are told so that is hearsay.

Good for you in gather facts, but most people aren't gather much more facts then just stats and the few games they seen them play, which I don't fully count because being in the building is way different then watching it on TV.

I definitely agree being in the actual building gives the best picture...but speaking of hearsay the word is that the players aren't necessarily being judged on how they are showing right now....somehow the sentiment out there is that scouts are trying to base who to pick on which of them is going to be better in 5 yrs..

I'm not so sure there is an actual science to that or not.

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#112 Crash
April 21 2010, 11:45AM
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Bucknuck wrote:

Crash you have been doing a great job defending your opinion in a respectable way.

~ Even though your opinion is crap and I don't know what planet you are from~

LOL...I haven't been able to contact the mother ship so I'm not certain of the planet..

Oh by the way...see the post by Rusty Duggan above? The skip, skip, skip one?

This is what I was talking about before....I'm assuming it means Rusty isn't fond of me...

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#113 Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach
April 21 2010, 11:46AM
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Rob wrote:

It is interesting to me to see how the draft has evolved into something huge in the salary cap era. There has always been a certain level of interest for me in who the Oil drafted and who was the number 1 pick was going to be in any given draft.

The draft is now a much more serious proposition with teams limited by the cap. You have to draft well and that means turning over every possible rock in each round. I wonder how much the scouting personnel and budgets have grown to accomplish that task?

Gone are the days of just writing a cheque to a free agent to make up for a pretty casual attitude at the draft table. No one can afford to buy their way out of their problems any more.

The days of writing the cheque are still there and I suspect we might see evidence of that next year when the Rangers end up waiving Redden and sending him to the AHL. Although for the most part you are right.

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#114 Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach
April 21 2010, 11:48AM
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Crash wrote:

I definitely agree being in the actual building gives the best picture...but speaking of hearsay the word is that the players aren't necessarily being judged on how they are showing right now....somehow the sentiment out there is that scouts are trying to base who to pick on which of them is going to be better in 5 yrs..

I'm not so sure there is an actual science to that or not.

I agree, the one thing that I really like about being in the building is to see what kind of effort these guys put in away from the puck. I remember in 08-09 Penner was starting to look good, then I went to a couple of games and realized that sometimes the reason we were getting caught with odd man rushes was because of his laziness when it came to shift changes.

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#115 Senator Theo
April 21 2010, 11:49AM
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Oil99 wrote:

Crosby vs O.V?? Come on man. Both of those guys you mention are in a total different class then either of Hall or Seguin. Give your head a shake if you think it's even close.

If you want to compare Hall and Seguin then look to the Dan Heatley(Hall)Vs Jon Toews(Seguin)

I would take a Heatley-type player in Hall+ the little edge and toughness that he seems to play with (minus Heatley's attitude of course) any day of the week over anything Seguin brings to the table.

The more of the pro-Hall comments I've been reading, the more convinced I am that Seguin is the smarter choice.

The combination of a playmaking centre like Seguin and a speedy winger with finish like MPS is going to be brilliant.

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#116 Crash
April 21 2010, 11:51AM
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Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach wrote:

I agree, the one thing that I really like about being in the building is to see what kind of effort these guys put in away from the puck. I remember in 08-09 Penner was starting to look good, then I went to a couple of games and realized that sometimes the reason we were getting caught with odd man rushes was because of his laziness when it came to shift changes.

Yes, being there you get to see the extra stuff the cameras don't pick up...I hear what you are saying on the Penner thing but yet for some reason he is always at the top of the Oilers +/- stats every year...

Sometimes when others (fans, media, coaches) are ragging on certain players we tend to notice their mistakes more than the good things they do...

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#117 Hemmertime
April 21 2010, 11:52AM
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@David Staples

Welcome to ON, haven't seen you post before. Would love to see more. Hell, even Stauffer has more posts than you... can't have that

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#118 Ducey
April 21 2010, 11:54AM
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@Crash

Crash,

It would appear that you don't know what hearsay is. All the examples you gave are hearsay and would not be permitted in court due to their inherent unreliability. Lets not even talk about the impact of non experts giving opinions.

You are entitled to your opinion, but I think a reasonable person in our shoes would admit that their opinion on this subject shouldn't carry much weight.

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#119 Ted Sheckler
April 21 2010, 11:54AM
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Senator Theo wrote:

The more of the pro-Hall comments I've been reading, the more convinced I am that Seguin is the smarter choice.

The combination of a playmaking centre like Seguin and a speedy winger with finish like MPS is going to be brilliant.

Ok which one of you poster's are T.W. aka The Warrior? Always loved listening to that guy on Stauff's old show. Anyone got a list of who's who on this site?

We already know that Madjam and the Ogden folks are Oilers, lol

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#120 Team Hall
April 21 2010, 11:55AM
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@Senator Theo

Crash, I hear you. Any time you take a position there are going to be haters. Don't let them get you down. We're not saying Seguin is a bum. He's a fine player. But when you have the #1 overall pick, you don't want a fine player, you want the dominant player, the player that shows up in the big series with all the scouts watching, and steps it up. My goal is to get the word out so management can't ignore us.

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#121 Rusty Duggan
April 21 2010, 11:56AM
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Ducey wrote:

Crash,

It would appear that you don't know what hearsay is. All the examples you gave are hearsay and would not be permitted in court due to their inherent unreliability. Lets not even talk about the impact of non experts giving opinions.

You are entitled to your opinion, but I think a reasonable person in our shoes would admit that their opinion on this subject shouldn't carry much weight.

I smell a greasy lawyer Crash old buddy.

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#122 Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach
April 21 2010, 11:58AM
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@Crash

It was just an example of one of the many things I noticed with our line changes.

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#123 BUCK75
April 21 2010, 11:58AM
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Ducey wrote:

Crash,

It would appear that you don't know what hearsay is. All the examples you gave are hearsay and would not be permitted in court due to their inherent unreliability. Lets not even talk about the impact of non experts giving opinions.

You are entitled to your opinion, but I think a reasonable person in our shoes would admit that their opinion on this subject shouldn't carry much weight.

#soyoureanexpert?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmVdVJ1sRJI&feature=player_embedded

;)

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#124 Crash
April 21 2010, 12:01PM
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Ducey wrote:

Crash,

It would appear that you don't know what hearsay is. All the examples you gave are hearsay and would not be permitted in court due to their inherent unreliability. Lets not even talk about the impact of non experts giving opinions.

You are entitled to your opinion, but I think a reasonable person in our shoes would admit that their opinion on this subject shouldn't carry much weight.

I'm thinking you're just messing with me...because actual Goals and assists stats are not hearsay...neither is what both Seguin and Hall said to Dan Tencer in the interviews he had with both of them...I'm pretty sure the memorial cup championship that Windsor won last year is not hearsay, neither is the MVP award that Hall won or the U18 Canadian team that Seguin played on...what I've seen of the two with my own two eyes is also not hearsay..

Those examples are not hearsay...they are facts.

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#125 Crash
April 21 2010, 12:03PM
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Rusty Duggan wrote:

I smell a greasy lawyer Crash old buddy.

Nope Rusty, I'm actually a greasy tradesman or I was...now that I'm older I've taken on more of an office position in the money end of things.

I appreciate that you have me pegged though

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#126 Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach
April 21 2010, 12:04PM
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Crash wrote:

I'm thinking you're just messing with me...because actual Goals and assists stats are not hearsay...neither is what both Seguin and Hall said to Dan Tencer in the interviews he had with both of them...I'm pretty sure the memorial cup championship that Windsor won last year is not hearsay, neither is the MVP award that Hall won or the U18 Canadian team that Seguin played on...what I've seen of the two with my own two eyes is also not hearsay..

Those examples are not hearsay...they are facts.

While I respect your opinion what does someone playing on the memorial cup team really prove? Is that really that much of a factor when comparing two players?

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#127 BUCK75
April 21 2010, 12:05PM
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@Crash

~Well I thought Seguin's interview with Tencer was better...

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, fact is the 50% of us that choose not fence sit will be wrong.

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#128 MrCondor
April 21 2010, 12:05PM
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Senator Theo wrote:

The more of the pro-Hall comments I've been reading, the more convinced I am that Seguin is the smarter choice.

The combination of a playmaking centre like Seguin and a speedy winger with finish like MPS is going to be brilliant.

This is the primary reason I'm a Seguin supporter as well. To me, he works better with what is in our system.

The only thing that makes me think are the numerous reports that Hall is more NHL ready - you can't argue them. Hall has had an extra OHL season, played in memorial cups and WJC's, and he plays with a better team so it pushes him harder. Hall is a monster right now.

What I'd like to read is how NHL ready Seguin is right now, without comparisons to Hall.

How much of his #1 ranking is potential, and how much of it is his ability to play right now? CAN Seguin put up numbers like Duchene or Stamkos in his first season, or DO THEY THINK he'll put up similar number after an extra year in the OHL?

I wonder if Seguin is getting knocked because Hall is more prepared right now? If they had the same physical maturity, would it be as much of an arguement?

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#129 Rusty Duggan
April 21 2010, 12:07PM
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Crash wrote:

Nope Rusty, I'm actually a greasy tradesman or I was...now that I'm older I've taken on more of an office position in the money end of things.

I appreciate that you have me pegged though

I was actually pegging Ducey as the greasy lawyer/law student, lol.

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#130 Crash
April 21 2010, 12:10PM
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Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach wrote:

While I respect your opinion what does someone playing on the memorial cup team really prove? Is that really that much of a factor when comparing two players?

It's just an accomplishment...just a piece of evidence...for example Gregor says in his article that if you want a championship team it makes more sense to draft Seguin...I'm guessing it has something to do with many championship teams having a top center...this is a piece of evidence that Gregor is using to decide that Seguin is the way to go...

But given this mindset it is Hall that actually is the one so far who has a championship under his belt and one in which he played a major role...it's just one piece of evidence...you have to admit that as an Oiler fan you would like a guy who shows up at playoff time....I'm not saying Seguin doesn't but IMO Hall has shown more evidence to me of being there when the games become more pressure packed, more important.

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#131 OILERSORDEATH
April 21 2010, 12:11PM
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BUCK75 wrote:

That's the sad truth. With guys like Stamkos, Tavares, Kane, Toews & even Doughty having such strong starts to their careers the bar is pretty high.

So when does the chaos start on Gagner?

Well other than Tavares, look at the team Kane and Toews play on, look at who Stamkos plays with, and even Doughty has a pretty damn good team around him. Not taking anything away from them at all they are fantastic young players, but poor Gagner look who he's had to play with. I think he's doing just fine. He's not our savoir guys, but I think as the Oilers get better as a team as will Gags. Dont you think if he played on a Chicago or LA that he'd be toying with 70-80 pts?

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#132 Crash
April 21 2010, 12:12PM
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Rusty Duggan wrote:

I was actually pegging Ducey as the greasy lawyer/law student, lol.

Oh, lol, my bad...

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#133 Bucknuck
April 21 2010, 12:12PM
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I have to say I liked the Seguin interview a lot better than Hall's. I also have to say I didn't like Seguin's disappearing act against Windsor in the playoffs.

I would take the guy who wants to be an Oiler over the guy who wants to be a Bruin if everything else is equal.

I wish one of Hall or Seguin was a 240 lb six foot four monster with fangs and glowing red eyes. Then I would be soundly on his side of the fence.

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#134 Crash
April 21 2010, 12:14PM
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BUCK75 wrote:

~Well I thought Seguin's interview with Tencer was better...

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, fact is the 50% of us that choose not fence sit will be wrong.

Well in a perfect world, everyone will be right and both players will turn out to be equally good...but if one of em turns out bad, I hope it's the guy Boston gets and not us :)

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#135 Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach
April 21 2010, 12:14PM
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Crash wrote:

It's just an accomplishment...just a piece of evidence...for example Gregor says in his article that if you want a championship team it makes more sense to draft Seguin...I'm guessing it has something to do with many championship teams having a top center...this is a piece of evidence that Gregor is using to decide that Seguin is the way to go...

But given this mindset it is Hall that actually is the one so far who has a championship under his belt and one in which he played a major role...it's just one piece of evidence...you have to admit that as an Oiler fan you would like a guy who shows up at playoff time....I'm not saying Seguin doesn't but IMO Hall has shown more evidence to me of being there when the games become more pressure packed, more important.

Way to confuse me. Again I take the best player available and my thinking was it was Hall.

Question to anyone, when Ovechkin and Malkin were drafted what was the driving factor that made Washington take Ovechkin? I remember him being the favourite for the most part, but like this Hall/Seguin thing Malkin was thought to have come on strong at the end.

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#136 Rusty Duggan
April 21 2010, 12:16PM
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Bucknuck wrote:

I have to say I liked the Seguin interview a lot better than Hall's. I also have to say I didn't like Seguin's disappearing act against Windsor in the playoffs.

I would take the guy who wants to be an Oiler over the guy who wants to be a Bruin if everything else is equal.

I wish one of Hall or Seguin was a 240 lb six foot four monster with fangs and glowing red eyes. Then I would be soundly on his side of the fence.

Oh no Bucknuck, you're not saying what I think you saying are you?

You can't possibly hope to draft a Derick Boogard type can you? mahahaha

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#137 Bucknuck
April 21 2010, 12:34PM
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Rusty Duggan wrote:

Oh no Bucknuck, you're not saying what I think you saying are you?

You can't possibly hope to draft a Derick Boogard type can you? mahahaha

Except Boogard never got over 100 pts in junior like these two young men.

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#138 Rusty Duggan
April 21 2010, 12:39PM
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Here's what I think is really going on with the Oilers and their stance on Hall and Seguin.

They are waiting for the interview process to see what's going on in Hall's head. I bet they want Hall, but much like many a free agent out there, Hall might not want them. Ultimately, the Oilers want the guy that wants to be here the most.

Seguin on the other hand knows that he is Boston's second choice, and that's no secret.

The Oilers would be smarter to draft the player that wants to be here, even if that player doesn't have the same impact initially in his first few seasons. Changing the culture takes time.

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#139 Team Hall
April 21 2010, 12:48PM
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@Rusty Duggan

That's right, if new evidence comes to light, for eg. Hall doesnt want to play here, for sure I'll go for Seguin. But right now I think old Crash is trying to sift through the available evidence and come to a conclusion. Very methodical Crash, I like the way you operate. Here's some evidence: Hall is the faster skater. Now, just take that on its own, isnt it good to be a fast skater in the NHL? Won't being a fast skater give him an edge over someone who is not a fast skater? Now, don't get me started on strength...

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#140 Hemmertime
April 21 2010, 12:51PM
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@Rusty Duggan

Thats dumb, Hall has no say where he goes for the first 7 years unless he pulls a Lindros. So many things can change in 7 years, He might love it here, or Seguin could hate it here.

And nobody will pull a Lindros this draft.

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#142 Rusty Duggan
April 21 2010, 01:00PM
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Hemmertime wrote:

Thats dumb, Hall has no say where he goes for the first 7 years unless he pulls a Lindros. So many things can change in 7 years, He might love it here, or Seguin could hate it here.

And nobody will pull a Lindros this draft.

Are you aware that Bobby Orr is his agent? No one could have guessed Boston would be so close to drafting Taylor Hall at the beginning of the season. Put yourself in Hall's shoes for a second, and then maybe you can make the connection as to why he may enjoy the chance of playing in Boston.

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#143 Senator Theo
April 21 2010, 01:02PM
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madjam wrote:

I have one of the best jobs in the world and i'm very good at it as well for i have the best of both worlds . I'm a happy early retiree and i do my job well !

~ Are you also retired from making breaks in your paragraphs? ;)

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#144 Senator Theo
April 21 2010, 01:07PM
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rubbertrout wrote:

I like soup.

Not me - I'm on team salad, and I hear people on team soup don't know what they're talking about.

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#145 TigerUnderGlass
April 21 2010, 01:09PM
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That Sutton video cracks me up every time.

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#146 Chris.
April 21 2010, 01:09PM
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@Team Hall

I hope the Oiler scouts aren't wasting all of their time trying to find the tiniest bit of separation between two very evenly matched prospects... Shea Weber might be the best overall defenceman in the game and was drafted 49th overall... The Oilers have three picks in the first two rounds. Getting the 31st pick to really pay, may have greater signifigance than the distinction between the two top seeds.

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#147 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
April 21 2010, 01:13PM
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Chris. wrote:

I hope the Oiler scouts aren't wasting all of their time trying to find the tiniest bit of separation between two very evenly matched prospects... Shea Weber might be the best overall defenceman in the game and was drafted 49th overall... The Oilers have three picks in the first two rounds. Getting the 31st pick to really pay, may have greater signifigance than the distinction between the two top seeds.

Agreed, we REALLY need a couple of late round picks to suprise, either those currently in the system or about to be drafted.

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#148 Aleslav Smidsky
April 21 2010, 01:15PM
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Good read Gregor, but I strongly disagree.

Ovechkin is a all around better.

First and foremost, the Malkin arguement is not WEAK. Malkin is a way better player than Backstrom. Malkin is a way more dominant than Backstrom.

Most of Backstrom points come and have come from playing along side Ovechkin. Malkin doesn't play with Crosby yet he puts up numbers in the category of Crosby and Ovechkin. He is a handful for any defence when he is on his game. Seeing that Penguins have two dominant lines to work with, the weaker line matches would go in favour of Sidney Crosby. Also since their arrival in the league, Sidney Crosby has had a better/complete teams around him.

Until this year 66% of Crosbys points have been assists. Most of those came playing powerplay alongside the likes of Malkin, Gonchar, Guerin, Hossa. I'm not saying these players and the powerplay are the reason Crsoby got points, but these are dominant/game breaking players in their own right. Since his first game in the league, Ovechkin has taken the Capitals over and made them and the players around him what they are.

Often I have heard/read in the media how Sidney needs a new linemates this that and a third, everytime his game would slump or show signs of it. Even in the early games of this years Olympics, when Crosby wasn't getting points the talk was of better linemates for Sid the Kid. A dominant player doesn't need a superior supporting staff to get going, he should make it happen. On their own pound for pound Ovechkin is more dominant hockey presence.

The use of this years stats to show that Ovechkin has a better team is pretty weak as well. Gonchar and Malkin were injuried and Malkin was still more then a PPG player. I think a better way of comparing the team stats would have been if you used the last 5 years, and then see what the numbers show.

Tell me again how Crosby has or plays a bigger role on his team then Ovechkin?

At this stage of the game, do you mean this year? Sure Crosby has improved on face-offs and got a lots of goals this year, but its because he trained harder over the summer. Ovechkin is more of a natural, and that is also what makes him more creative and a better playmaker. Crosby is a excellent study, Ovechkin is a visionary.

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#149 Chris.
April 21 2010, 01:17PM
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BTW. Like Staples, I'm also a fence sitter. (That said, if Hall=Seguin... TAKE THE CENTER.)

http://communities.canada.com/EDMONTONJOURNAL/blogs/hockey/archive/2010/04/21/the-silly-ill-informed-debate-on-whether-the-oilers-should-draft-hall-and-seguin.aspx

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#150 BUCK75
April 21 2010, 01:21PM
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@OILERSORDEATH

If he was in the same situations - maybe.

Fact is that after watching hockey, the favorite hobby of Edmontonians is splitting hairs about hockey.

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