No doubt...before Seguin made his showing this season it was looking like Hall was the slam dunk but now we have this big debate..

And you are right, the debate will likely rage on for years and years after the fact.

I am an Oilers fan and will support whoever is on our team...

Someone pointed out the 2007 draft awhile back..that year it was Turris ranked 1st by Central scouting as the next great right handed center while Patrick Kane was the number 2 ranked winger....

if we take Seguin I really hope this isn't what happens..

Well said sir.

Lets leave the games for on the ice, the fans of this town have been PLAYED long enough.

....anything Daryl Katz says must be taken with a grain of salt, the man can't do much unless he's coached or has memorized his speech days in advance.

i was curious, so i dug up the 2007 final CSS rankings, and you sir are correct.

1) Kyle Turris C 6' 170lbs R

2) Patrick Kane RW 5'10" 160lbs L

3) JVR LW 6'3" 200lbs L

hopefully the oilers have whoever saw something in Kane, even rated #2, on their staff when they have to pick.....

Gagner hasn't improved any part of his game since his rookie year. First line center? If so we will be picking 1st overall often. Sam seems to only play after December. If he does pick his game up I'd be happy with 60 points from him. How would Gagner prove that he is a 1st line center in the off season? The draft is before the season you know.....? They don't have Seguin and Hall ranked 1a and 1b, it's Seguin #1 and Hall #2 at this point.

Gagner hasn't improved any part of his game since his rookie year.

tell you what, dig up the PPG production of 18 year old rookies over the last 15 years and see where gagner fits in.

i never said gagner WAS going to be a #1 center. Given his PPG numbers as an 18 year old rookie and such, the potential is there.

will it happen? i doubt it.

I'd really be curious to see where Turris would be if not rushed. He should've either stayed in school or tried a year in the WHL.

Wasn't the biggest knock on Kane his size?

This perception that Gagner only produces after December is incorrect...he had 10 pts in his 1st 10 games this year...

IMO it's time to make Gagner the number one center and let him run with it...this hasn't been done to this point and I'm sure it has affected his numbers...

The guy is only 20 yrs old...what do you want from most 20 yr olds at this point playing on as bad a team as we have had and not having top PP minutes?

Just make the guy the top center and leave him there through the bumps. You can see the skill and hockey sense in his game....amazing that people want to give up on the guy already...simply amazing.

Oh good! More vitriolic Hall vs. Seguin talk, chock full of fresh new insight! Huzzah!

*loads shotgun*

Gagner has improved in lots of areas, most importantly his defensive play. Try not to give up on a 20 year old kid so quickly. He's moved from the 4th line to the 1st line in 3 years and was 2nd in team scoring. Quinn only had him playing 16 minutes a game. He'll get stronger and command more ice time, he'll be just fine.

You do have the freedom to not comment on said conversation.Feel free to pull the trigger and rid yourself of this burden sir.

There's no such thing as too much hockey talk in this town. We may spice it up a bit with some CFL talk every once in a while....this is tolerated only to sustain us to the beginning of the coming hockey season.

I am also free to openly mock ad nauseum recycled thoughts that are off the topic of the article.

Hooray for the freedom of internets!

*highfives self, carefully avoiding shotgun blast*

True to the recylced thoughts but Hall was mentioned in the article

So we want our top line center to play defensive ? Quinn played him as much as he could. I'm not giving up on him by any means, I just don't see him being a first line center in this league. I'm sure he will get better but his stats haven't changed over those three years.

@ CRASH

Run with Gagner ? I think you mean run with SEGUIN.

Yes. You want your 1st line center to understand what to do in his own zone. That would be a good thing.

Either way, If the Oil take Seguin I dont think Gagner will be the 1st line center in 3 years time.

Here's my beef with the "Gagner

I don't think you'll find anyone that would argute that Gagner doesn't have more offensive ability then Horcoff. During Horcs 4 "prime years" he averaged .78PPG which works out to 64 points in an 82 game schedule.

Over the last 4 years, 64 points would put you in the following spot amoungst the leagues highest scoring centers:

22/21/24/23

Is it really that hard to picture Gagner as a #1C?

Yeah he has to be good at playing in both ends of the ice. I agree with you on the point that Gagner won't be the number 1 center.

I don't know every other 20 yr old center in the league but if you look up player stats, a lot of other young centers managed to get better the more seasons they played in the NHL. Simply put, Sam hasn't followed that general trend.

It is hard to find a comparison since Gagner played for the Oilers during three brutal seasons. I do recall wathcing Sam play on the power play numerous times last seson until MacT finally realized that he just wasn't ready yet.

Sam should have been sent back to the juniors to develop more.

This is just my opinion and I sincerely hope that I am wrong.

As it stands now there is only 1 person from his draft year that has put up more points than Gagner. I think that should count for something. He'll keep developing, I'm sure of it.

The problem might have to do with Gagner having to stay in the AHL and deal with his struggles, not all young centerman have to go through that for 3 years. Most have the chance to go to the AHL and gain confidence back.

In hindsight it would've been nice for Gagner to go back to London and be the go to guy something he has never been until he came to the injury prone Oilers.

Have a look at Henrik Sedin's numbers in his few years....would you have bet he wouldn't be a number one center? And he didn't start at age 8 like Gagner did.

And no I didn't mean Seguin...

here you are trashing on a 20 yr old (Gagner) who has played on a bad team and you already have 18 yr old Tyler Seguin pencilled in as the number one center....

Their are lots of young players that go sideways (or down) for a couple of years.

That play as first line centers?

Hendrik Sedin's numbers have got better every year they never stayed neutral. Yes Seguin is pencilled in, he deserves the chance Sam got ? Trashing really ? Just giving my opinion kinda like yours for Hall and Seguin.

Just because they did one thing with one player doesn't mean they should do it with another. Gagner also didn't start as a #1 center. Seguin/Hall will need to prove themselves if they want 1st line time.

Henrik Sedin's numbers stayed neutral for the first 4 yrs of his career...actually 1st 5 yrs if you count the lock out year he had in Europe.

Either Seguin or Hall would have to be given the opportunity to prove themselves for the role of 1st line center.

I'm not saying, at all, that the Oilers would have to give Seguin or Hall all of the time that was given to Gagner for the means of proving their ability in that position.

I can remember that Gagner was given every opportunity to prove that he was capable of being the player the Oilers wanted him to be.

Is it unfair to allow that same opportunity for other players?

Gagner is no longer considered to be a prospect. He's coming up on his 4th season in the NHL. He may be young still, but how many years does it take for the Oilers management and/or fans to see, realistically, what Gagner is and not what we wish he potentially could be.

He has great hockey sense and 'smarts', but his size and strength are the qualities that have me convinced that he will not be a 1st line center.

Gagner will be matched more accordingly with less talented players than he would oppose as a 1st line center.

I state this only as my opinion because from where I sit, Gagner is not strong enough yet and is lacking in his skating ability, and has a weak shot.

Too bad he can't score in the shoot-out like his first year..............!

I have no problem with people thinking he won't become a top line center, because I don't think he becomes that true #1 center either. But you don't just hand an 18 year old the top spot in the lineup and say here you go. Gagner wasn't given the time either, it was put onto his lap when injuries occured.

As for the whole 3 year thing, I think you should spend some time at hockeydb.com and take a look at how long it takes some guys to become the players that they are best known for.

I'm tired of the Kyle Turris example. What does this prove except sometimes scouts are wrong? Does the fact that scouts are sometimes wrong mean fans have a better track record?

By repeatedly mentioning Turris, the entrenched Hall camp are trying to make the subtle association that Sequin and Turris are somehow similar players and this just isn't true.... I mean for starters, Turris was a BCHL player not an OHL player like Sequin. Playing for the Burnaby Express, and hoping for a chance at the RBC Cup does not hold a candle to the CHL experience of either Hall or Sequin.

Well theirs not a whole bunch of these guys, so it's a pretty small sample.

Kopitar took a step back in year three.

Eric Staal took a big step back year three.

it also tough because Gagner was so young coming in (late BD for his draft class). Heck, he's only a couple months older then Eberle.

*Starts slow clap for Poo Czar - welcome to the Weiserhood.*

Your opinions amuse me, very little research behind them. Sedin was stagnant until after lockout.

Classic!

*Returns to carving turkey with an electric knife well wearing geekie sweater wife bought*

Lecavalier is a guy that was up and down.

I am not ranting on about how I think Gagner won't become better or he sucks.

Just like you I do not think he becomes that true #1 center.

Yes it has taken some players longer to excel in the NHL and morph into their true playing state. But it has been shown in the past that a 'true fist line center' adapts quickly once placed in the NHL setting.

Like I have stated previously - "I hope that I am wrong"...about Gagner.

I haven't said that Seguin (if he is indeed drafted by the Oilers) should just be given the top spot. I think that he should be given the chance/opportunity to prove what he has.

Gagner was given ample time/chances, even when he looked as though he should be sent down to the AHL to work on his faceoff abilities, as well as other skills/qualities.

Holy crap, a full, luxurious moustache just magically popped up on my face, and my office suddenly smells strongly of warm toffee aromas and spicy oak!

I shall accept this designation with aplomb!

*removes pants, starts fistfight with drapes in office lobby*

Well first of all Gagner was never eligible to go to the minors, that is why I said it was mistake in hindsight.

As for throwing a guy right into the spot, I don't think it's the right decision. I rather see the pick start on the second line and play some sheltered minus. Get their feet wet first. No point in putting them in over their heads in their first NHL game.

Yes Gagner has been given plenty of opportunity with this team, but have the opportunities given consistently been that as Centre of the #1 line? The kid has been tossed around more than a good salad. Someone hit the nail on the head earlier in this thread, pencil him in as numero uno AND KEEP HIM THERE. IMO he is best suited for the role. Not only should we be "rebuilding" with new soldiers, but we need to let some of our current players settle into a role.

That could happen and may work out. I hope Sam is working on his faceoffs and defensive game cause playing with Hemsky he will need to.

If he played with Hemsky the whole year you'd be talking about how great his point production was.

Dont tell me you're one of those people that still hasnt figured out how good Hemsky is.

Hemsky would help Sam get more points which I would like to see, since it hasn't happened yet.

Yes I know I need more patinience.

@Oil_Loc8or

You said "Gagner is no longer considered to be a prospect."

20 years old and second in team scoring. He improved his faceoff numbers and his defensive play this year, and was playing against the other teams top defensive pairing for much of the year.

If he isn't prospect then he is a regular with a TON of upside.

The madness here takes its toll...

Please have the exact change ready.

Except make a billion dollars, by revitalizing a dying brand. What have you done lately?

Speaking of top Junior Prospects. I never realized POS had such an impressive Junior career.

http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/whoselifeisit/multimedia.html

http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/whoselifeisit/story.html

I was interested in the topic of Gagner vs H. Sedin so I compared them.

Henrik Sedin at 20:

82GP, 9-20-29, 1.57pts/60, 12.1% team offence

Sam Gagner at 20:

68GP, 15-26-41, 2.22pts/60, 28.2% team offence

This made me want to look at a few others.

Stasny didn't play at 20 but at 21 he did:

82GP, 28-50-78, 3.14pts/60, 28.8% offence.

I guess we'll see what Gagner does next year to keep up with a guy like Stasny.

Mikko Koivu didn't play at 20 either, but at 22 he put up:

64GP, 6-15-21, 1.48pts/60, 11.7%

Lecavalier at 20?

68GP, 23-28-51, 2.25pts/60, 30.6%

Spezza at 20:

78GP, 22-33-55, 2.89pts/60, 22.1%

Backstrom at 20:

82GP 14-55-69, 2.66pts/60, 28.5%

Toews at 20:

82GP, 34-35-69, 2.71pts/60, 26.1%

Brad Richards at 20:

82GP, 21-41-62, 2.72pts/60, 30.8%

Kopitar:

82GP, 32-45-77, 2.72/60, 33.3%

Zajac at 21:

80GP, 17-25-42, 1.96/60, 19.9%

Thornton at 20:

81GP, 23-37-60, 2.09/60, 28.9%

Mike Richards at 20:

79GP, 11-23-34, 1.68/60, 13.2%

I have a client here so I have to stop, but so far it seems like Gagner is definitely in the mix as a future first line center. Most of the guys who put up significantly better boxcar numbers did it with a lot more minutes and better teammates.

Crash, I like what you're laying down. Good points. When we bring up the 07 draft, it's not to say that this one is exactly the same, it's to point to an example of where CSS was way off in their ranking assessments, and their #2 ranked player turned out to be by far the best player in the draft, bar none. Gagner, the #6 ranked, turned out to be the second best. Agreed with Gagner, lets give the 20 year old a chance to develop into the allstar he is going to be. Thanks for the insight Brownlee, interesting turn of events. I would re-sign Hemsky in a heartbeat, he will make a nice compliment to a good, fast, skilled team with Hall on his left and Gags in the center. The HGH line, as I like to call it. We will be hearing a lot about that in the years to come.

Let's give old Katz a chance to make this funding model work. Some combination of ticket tax, plus added property tax for all entertainment district businesses might just pay for this beautiful crown jewel in the Edmonton downtown. Something like that makes for a much prettier downtown than some dumpy parking lot nobody can use, no?

Gagner has been the 2nd best to date, but there are guys knocking on the door I.E Perron, JVR, Voracek etc... With that being said I don't think the Oilers will regret the picking of Gagner, just like I don't think the 5 teams ahead will regret their picks. Although Thomas Hickey isn't as good as he once was.

I understand Hemmer also got a nice package of DVDs about the City of Edmonton. Could have something to do with his change of heart, if true.

With our first pick we need the player that is best suited to help inmmediately , and that will/should be Hall ! We don't need another 2-3 wait to see if Sequin can develop . We are already waiting on too many already (Eberle, Svensson,etc.), and this years picks beyond our first one will just add to that list . We need a player now , not one down the road . It's going to be a "Hall" of a year - bank on it . Will Oilers make trade to get 4th pick from Colombus (50-50 )?

~ Umm, the Oilers don't really play very many playoff games, so I'm more intersted in regular season production.