Taylor & Tyler: Tambellini should pitch his brains out to Peter Chiarelli
Robin Brownlee
June 10 2010 09:44PM
It's not often a team with the second overall pick in the NHL Entry Draft has a reasonable chance to win now like the Boston Bruins do, and that's reason enough why Steve Tambellini should be all over Peter Chiarelli like a bad haircut.
But, thanks to Brian Burke and the Phil Kessel trade, the Bruins are a team that's already pretty good -- 91 points this season, 116 in 2008-09 and 94 in 2007-08 -- and a team that holds second pick in Los Angeles, right after the Oilers pick first (and take Tyler Seguin).
Given the make-up of the Bruins, who have a core of players entering or still in the prime of their careers, would Chiarelli be better off hanging on to his selection and taking Taylor Hall, as he has already suggested he might, or is it in his best interests to at least listen when Tambellini takes up residence in his ear?
If the conversation starts with Tambellini offering, say, Ales Hemsky and Gilbert Brule or Dustin Penner for his pick and a Seguin-Hall daily-double, is there reason to keep talking?
If I'm the GM of the Bruins, if I think my team might be a Stanley Cup contender with Hemsky and Penner, and if I'm willing to admit gainful employment is a consideration, the answer is yes.
Why wouldn't Chiarelli listen?
Here and now
Before you laugh off the possibility of Tambellini swinging a deal to land Seguin and Hall, ask yourself this: will the Bruins be a better team over the next two seasons with Hall in the line-up or with Hemsky and Penner? Yes? No? Not sure? If yes, might the Bruins be good enough before Hall turns 21 to win a Stanley Cup with Hemsky and Penner?
Before you trot out cliches about "mortgaging the future" and the like, remember, that kind of talk takes on a different tone if you're walking in Chiarelli's shoes, as opposed to spouting platitudes as a fan or writer.
Talk about the future is fine, but the future can be somewhat more immediate in a city like Beantown that hasn't sipped champagne from the Stanley Cup since 1972. Dale Tallon damn sure had a hand in building the Chicago Blackhawks, but he wasn't around to enjoy the parade.
Is it a longshot that Tambellini will be able to convince Chiarelli to part with this pick? Duh. Of course it is. Chiarelli will have a line up of eager suitors trying to separate him from a crack at Hall with attractive offers. Then, there's the optics of giving up a potential franchise player for a shot to win here and now -- with no guarantee it'll play out that way.
Of course, it's not nearly as hard a sell if the Bruins win something before Chiarelli starts losing bits and pieces of his roster, as is inevitable under a salary cap, and Hall becomes the stud people project him to be.
From the Oilers end of things, Tambellini won't get the answers to any of those questions unless he asks. He damn sure better -- and it should be Plan A before he settles on trying to squeeze something out of Chiarelli to lay-off Hall if he can't hit the home run.
What's to lose?
I've already written why I'd offer up Hemsky. I'm not sure he'll be here after his contract expires in two seasons, despite his candlelight dinner with owner Daryl Katz after the season ended. I'm not convinced Penner will re-sign in Edmonton, either.
So, I start this what-if scenario with them, but feel free to change or add names you think might make a deal possible. If that includes taking a hummer contract back, like that of Michael Ryder -- the Bruins already have over $46 million committed to salaries next season, so the cap is a consideration -- so be it. Tweak it however you like.
The point is, there shouldn't be anybody near untouchable on the Oilers roster, not after four straight years out of the playoffs. Tambellini isn't giving up the chance to win something in the next two or three years by parting with Hemsky, Penner, Brule or whoever.
But, if you add a combination of those names to Marc Savard, Patrice Bergeron, David Krejci, Blake Wheeler, Milan Lucic, Zdeno Chara. Johnny Boychuk and Tuukka Rask, might that put the Bruins over the top?
If I'm Tambellini, I'm asking Chiarelli that question in Los Angeles, and I'm throwing offers at him in an attempt to get Seguin and Hall until the mini-bar is empty and he tells me to get the hell out of his room.
What's to lose?
Know your audience
There's some sharp fans out there, but there's a handful of dullards with slack jaws and walnut-sized brains in the mix who keep things interesting by providing laugh-out-loud material.
Every Sunday, Jim Matheson serves up one of the best reads anywhere with Hockey World in the Journal. Matheson, an Elmer Ferguson Award winner -- he's in the writer's wing of the Hockey Hall of Fame -- got people talking with his latest offering last weekend.
Among other things, Matheson asked if the Oilers might make a pitch for Chicago's Kris Versteeg with the 31st pick at the Entry Draft, if they might be interested in free agent defenceman John Scott and if San Jose might be interested in Sheldon Souray.
Matheson's what-ifs and speculation drew this response by somebody calling himself "Asher" over at HF Boards.
"The more I read these Matheson "speculations" the more he comes off sounding like Eklund. I've often thought a lot of Eklund rumours are created by him sitting down looking at rosters and saying things like, "Gee, Team A could really use a player like the one Team B has that might be available." And then he goes on to create a rumour. I know Matty was writing for Eklund's site a while back... maybe he picked up a few of Eklund's writing habits along the way."
Matty was writing for Eklund a while back? Uh, no. Never has. Never will. That's the wonderful thing about the interweb. Dolts can write stupid stuff that has no foundation in fact and people will read it because it's only a mouse click away, alongside legit offerings from journalists, fans and bloggers who aren't uttering nonsense and lies.
The right stuff
Hall certainly passed his drive-by to Edmonton today with flying colors, saying all the right things.
"I know how crazy this city is for hockey," Hall told reporters at Rexall Place. "I was having lunch at Joey’s and the chef came out and asked me to autograph his apron. People are recognizing me, already. I think it would be pretty cool to play here."
Part of the reason some people are pitching Seguin as a better fit for the Oilers is that he's a centre, while Hall has played primarily left wing while leading the Windsor Spitfires to two straight Memorial Cups.
"I’d be very comfortable playing centre," Hall said. "In Windsor we had a lot of true centres who were better there than on the wing, so I moved over.
"When we had injuries this year, I moved back, and I played half the year I was at centre. It’s still hockey, it’s about winning battles in the offensive zone."
Seguin will stop in Edmonton for a look-see next week.
Listen to Robin Brownlee Wednesdays and Thursdays from 4 p.m. to 6 p.m. on the Jason Gregor Show on TEAM 1260.
Knowing our GM, this is how it's all going to go down:
Tambellini: With the first overall pick, the Edmonton Oilers are proud to select - from the Windsor Spitfires - Taylor Hall!
*cheering*
Bettman: ...and coming up to the stage to make the second overall pick is Mr. Chiarelli from the Boston Bru.. oh, we have a trade ladies and gentlemen! The Edmonton Oilers have acquired the 2nd overall pick from the Boston Bruins!
*cheering*
Bettman: The Edmonton Oilers get the 2nd overall pick in exchange for Ales Hemsky, Ladislav Smid, and Taylor Hall.
*massive confusion*
Tambellini: My bad. Sorry guys. I felt great up here a few minutes ago as I was selecting Taylor, but when I sat down and really started assessing my pick, I realized I need to make some changes. So, without futher ado, with the second overall pick, the Edmonton Oilers are extremely proud to select - from the Plymouth Whalers - Tyler Seguin!
*confused cheering*
Tambellini (as he's exiting the stage): I feel great with this pick!
Bettman: Okay!... Wow! Expect the unexpected right? Okay then. Moving onto the 3rd overall selection, please welcome Dave Tallon from the Florid.. wait, another trade has just been passed to me! The 3rd overall pick has been traded to the... Edmonton Oilers?!..
Because no other quote would say it best...
http://www.sheep.physicsisbroken.com/Facepalm.jpg
And because it will make David S laugh ;)
Gagner, Smid, Eberle, and both young goalies are confirmed guests at the RX1 Draft party...
So what happens if one of them is traded? Doesn't it make sense that at the very least one of the goalies may be delt?
Could be very awkward.
Now you're just trying to sound like you live in a trailer park, right? I think I'll call it a day and let OvenChicken8, Jackie and whoever else feels like it slap your teeth down your throat*.
*Figuratively speaking. Not a threat of actual physical violence or an endorsement of same by Oilersnation, Robin Brownlee, ON owners and sponsors or any entity financially or otherwise affiliated in any way with Oilersnation.
Without trading future 1st rounders Tambellini should trade any combination of players to get both TnT.
Landing both would erase the failure of epic proportions the Oilers have become.
Hopefully Seguin's maturity rubs off on the "vets" Shelly & Sully...
(if they're still here)
Dont be so sure Hemmer n Penner wouldnt want to resign with the Oil. Come on I thought for sure that the Sedin sisters wouldnt resign with the Casucks and well go figure they did. Jesus we're so negative here its depressing! Its possible the Oil come out flying this next season the whole attitude of the team takes a 180 degree turn, all of a sudden everyone's having fun and loving the game. So I give Boston my middle finger and take Taylor Hall. Cant Fu%$ing wait for draft day!!
Penner, 31st pick and first in 2011 with a conditional second if Boston doesn't make it to the third round of 2011 or 2012 playoffs
If the Oil had the first and second overall pick... who should they take first?
He'd be an amazing 3rd liner here. Perfect replacement for Moreau.
David Staples wrote:
Agreed. And I don’t want Penner here then anyway, for the reason you quote next.
David Staples wrote:
That, coupled with the fact that I think he’ll never reproduce the year he just had and his value is as high as it’s ever going to be makes me want to put him on the next plane out of town.
David Staples wrote:
Now you’re into the debatable. I agree you lose Penner right away as in my mind he’s hemorrhaging value every day he plays. Hemmer, I don’t cast into the wind quite so quickly. Granted, there’s a risk and you may end losing out but there is also a possibility that Hemmer could play for the Stanley Cup Champ Oilers. A small chance, I’ll grant you, but he has value now and potential value still in the future.
David Staples wrote:
Sure. Doesn’t have to be to Boston for Hall/Seguin though. There are 29 teams besides the Oilers and hundreds of attractive players. I can think of a lot of ways to deal a player like Hemsky without rolling the dice on a player who ‘should be’ at least as good. Likewise with Penner, though I’m not quite as picky with him as I believe that time is more a factor in dealing him for value.
David Staples wrote:
If we have to, sure. Being required to overspend then on one or two guys to push you over the top, however, is no reason to spend nothing for the next 2-3 years though. If you can get reasonable deals on decent players in the interim, you should still take them. I don’t believe that success in 3 years will come from fielding a league-minimum salary comprised of children and the elderly now, even if the Plan is to jettison the elderly and have the kids become superstars by then. Your supporting cast needs to be firmly in place in advance.
David Staples wrote:
It is risky, and you could be the Islanders instead of the ‘Hawks if one of these kids we’re putting so much stock in doesn’t work out. What if they aren’t Daigle-bad but just turn into a normal second-liner? Wouldn’t you rather trade Hemmer for someone you’ve seen in the NHL for a couple years over one you’ve seen only in Junior? Why is it so damn important to get both Hall and Seguin? Wouldn’t one of them and a solid trade for Hemsky elsewhere achieve the same goal with far less risk?
David Staples wrote:
Yeah, it is overkill. When the Nation first came online many moons ago, I was just Ender. Unfortunately, there was another Ender who was writing at Stillnoname.com at the time and also used to post here regularly. In deference to his established identity on the net, I altered my identity subtly to reflect that we weren’t the same person. There were a few reasons behind ‘the Dragon’, but I certainly agree that just plain Ender would have been nicer. At work, I am just plain Ender and I prefer it that way. Here, though, I am who I am now; no changing the past, I’m afraid.
Dan Tencer's not a journalist. He's a little wiener that landed a sweet gig somehow.
bull**it.
it could easily be argued one would rather be last, as your interview would be the freshest in peoples minds.
they could have asked seguin to go first, and he may have had a prior commitment. There is no way to know. Suggesting that one or the other being first is a "big tip off" is a huge stretch.
Interesting article and it would be unreal to get both picks, and I'm all for giving up Penner to get the 2nd, and whatever else it takes.
On a different note...
Gregor, my co-worker showed me this link..
www.sobelversusgregor.ca
Clap pullups, really. Impressive. I didn't know who were in that could of shape. My mom has MS, so thanks for riding for such a great cause. Good luck.
Ok if this is turning into a discussion about Matheson then I'll get on topic. :)
Matheson has long been a great reporter with tons of interesting info from around the league. Even if he's just giving his take without any insider info his stuff has some thought behind it and knowledge of the players, team needs and managers in the league. I think his insight, while some of it might be a stretch is all possible.
If you compare him to Eklund you'll see quite a difference. Eklund is constantly spouting off anything to get hits. He's always pandering to big audiences that get him hits like made up Leafs rumours, made up Habs rumours, made up Oilers rumours, and of course Flyers rumours. Then just to sensationalize things he'll put out rumours about big names that would never possibly move like Ovechkin to Nashville after the big save the Predators rallies.
Matheson deserves respect, Eklund doesnt, end of story.
Wah Wah... Brownlee didn't answer my question so he obviously associates with Hitler, and pulls his writings from the early drafts of Mein Kampf.
Jesus people, you're all very very sad.
Agreed.
We like you, Robin, but perhaps it would help everyone if you just let a few 'shots' slide. I've offended you before without even directing a comment at you.
I don't mind Matheson... sometimes his ideas can be a little out to lunch, but what he has to say is generally a pretty good read.
As far as the lashing out / caustic stuff, to be honest, I find in a lot of cases the people that are responded to here are more frequently the s--- disturbers. People that have genuine good opinions generally disappear in the background. You guys are free to respond to whomever you like and however you like, but for me it just makes the site look like a bit of a playground at times. Don't feed into the trolls.
What you don't know is that Robin is slated to replace Walter Matthau in Grumpiest Old Men 3.
He's just in character... all the time.
This topic is retarded on some many levels.
When has this happened before? That a first overall was traded for a second overall.
This is fcuking stupid, just as stupid as the people beating the dead horse that had no chance at life anyway.
I repeat, Hemsky and Penner arent going anywhere. Why do you keep planting seeds of doubt in the value of our two best wings with these stupid scenarios and articles is beyond me.
Robin, if your if was a spliff we'd be all fcuked up.
Two more weeks of damn arguemtns and comments and then, just like that one masonic rapper says "on to the next one".
Re-read your post and you will find out what AN ILLITERATE knob is.
@Bottleofwater
Racki is a class act. The fact you would target him in a post tells me all I need to know about your character.
What is with all the hurtbags coming out of the woodwork in this topic? jeez.
The problem for me if I'm Chiarelli is that I have TO's pick next year too. So if I hold on to my top 2 pick this draft and next I might get my version of Kane/Toews...have them both start as rookies in 2011 and look to be a hardcore contender the last year of their enrty level year just like the Hawks did this year...basically ice a 7O or so million dollar team for 56 MIL and worry about the cap consequences later. Risky, but it worked this year.
Even with the whole qualifying offer debacle last summer the hawks would still be in the same position now if Tallon hadn;t made that error.
If I am Tambellini, when Chiarelli finally tells me to bugger off and leave me alone I get on the phone to Scott Howson and target that #4 pick. Columbus definitely is in win now mode and it sounds like the pick is in play, and there is a trade history as well.
If you can get the #4, then you could try to use that to entice Chiarelli to drop down. If Boston is high on one of the defencemen in that next group and we have taken who they want out of Tyler/Taylor then they may be more likely want to deal. Would Riley Nash and a second work?
If Boston really wants to pick at #2 then we take a defenceman that fits in with our core.
Any thought Robin on what Columbus would be looking at and if we would have any parts that may fit?
@Robin Brownlee
~ Would that reacharound idea actually work? ~
I'm all for getting the second overall. If not, how about the 3rd or 4th? Fowler and Gudbranson seem like pretty solid picks as well.
Nash, Souray & 31 should probably get you about... oh... say #38. Ya... you read that right.
I'm in with the Penner or Hemsky trade given that neither would resign. Two years of either one isn't worth a Hall/Seguin one/two. Not even close.
If, however, Penner or Hemsky will resign then it's a much more difficult situation.
@Shaun Doe
Everyone stop what they're doing...important news just came in from our good friend Madjam.
"Hall passed with "flying colors " by all accounts and thus has set a very high standard to beat"
Madjam's uncle just happens to be Mr Katz, so it was only natural to have the little chap tag along with Hall and Tambo for the meetings. Apparently Hall, according to Madjam, wasn't much of a veggie eater; he didn't even finish them. We ask Madjam (fly on the wall we call him) for an update:
"Ya, he was at my uncle Batman's place and ya WE interviewed him. I haven't made up my mind yet though. He played NHL with me on the ps3!!"
The only player I wouldn't consider trading is MPS to get the #2. All things considered you must make a offer to blow Bostons socks off. Hemsky, Gagner and a one dman. Any assortment of players will work,just no MPS. It doesn't hurt to lose a Gagner type player to acquire the #2 because I think your getting a better player back. If you really want the pick go get it.
Yeah, I dont understand the people that want to trade Gagner. Clearly some people think the best way to rebuild is by trading away all of the team's best young players.
~Makes sense to me.~
Am I the only one who actually noticed or has the feeling that Dubnyk actually showed he is not only more than a capable back up but that he could very soon be a good NHL starter?
Why does everyone disregard what he did over the last 2 months of last season. He had a slow start at the beginning yes but his finish was magnificent...
He has all the tools that successful NHL goalies have...size, sound positioning and he has an even keel demeanor, meaning he doesn't get rattled...he's calm, cool and collected during the good times and during the bad.
IMO he will soon be our number one guy and could easily be the back up next year.
everyone is so impatient. A rebuild takes time and looking at the Kings and Hawks it is more of a 3-5 year process if done properly. In that time the dealing of 1st round picks just isn't smart. There will be good players in next year's draft. And with a thin defence Adam Larsson would be a good pick for the Oilers. And given that the Oilers roster is looking worse or about the same as last year the odds are they'll get a lottery pick again.
I know everyone's excited about the prospects that are coming over in Omark, MPS, and Eberle but let's face it the better thing to do is for the Oilers to bring the young guys to the camp for experience and send them down to the AHL to ease them into pro hockey. It wasn't that long ago that they screwed the pooch by bringing Cogliano and Gagner up too quickly without allowing them to get stronger and smarter when playing at the pro level with full grown adults. The new prospects should get some time in semi pro hockey. The only exception would be Hall because his style of play and his strength already make him fairly NHL ready, that is if the Oilers draft him. If the Oilers select Seguin I don't see any harm in him finishing Junior and getting experience in the World Junior Tournament as there are still things he hasn't experienced as a young player.
Side note on the backups. Dubnyk should start in the AHL to see if he's learned anything from his NHL stint and his numbers don't scream consistency. He looked better as the year finished but he still hasn't proven he's ready for an 82 game schedule. Backups aren't that expensive. The Oilers would be better off shopping for an inexpensive backup for this season. There's a lot of serviceable ones who aren't expensive. ie. Biron, Auld, Nittymaki
Gagner is a top 6....so I suppose once you've traded Gagner for this top 6, in three years when that top 6 guy "might" start to become good you'll be back on here again saying you'd trade that guy for a top 6...
Wash, rinse and recycle....the cycle never ends
Hall, Horcoff, Hemsky... Let's call them "the Triple-H line" :)
I think taking a 50/50 shot to get a good dman is too big of a risk to trade a "2nd line center" for.
It's like cashing in your $500,000 for a chance to win $1,000,000.
@Oil_Loc8or
I think you're missing the point completely.
Gagner is the best young player on the team. There is no rebuilding if you're giving up your best young players for 6th overall picks. Yes, I know you said it doesnt HAVE TO BE Gagner, but that statement still means you think it's acceptable to move him for the 6th.
They have depth upfront because the youth movement is being lead by Gagner. The Oilers dont have depth in the middle. They do though have 4 prospects at defence in the AHL in Petry, Plante, Peckham, and Chorney. So from where I sit, they need Gagner a lot more than another defenceman who will take at least 3 years to develop.
My offer to the Bruins would be Penner, Brule or Cogliano, the 31st pick and the Oil's 1st rounder in 2011..for the 2nd overall pick that would allow me to take Seguin...otherwise
If Chiarelli asks instead what it would take to allow him to get his hands on Hall...Tambellini says I'm only interested in a trade that lands me both otherwise forget it...Hall is mine, period.
Hall & Seguin pushed each other all season, imagine the healthy competition they'd bring on the same team....
Dare to dream
For sure I agree I wouldn't give up any first rounders, even landing both wouldn't make us immediately competitive and we'd want that likely high pick in 2011.
Would we dress 4 rookies? Eberle/MPS drop to minors and only dress 2? That might be excellent come 2012/2013, to let them both develop some more in minors.
It's too good to be true.
I think the only way the Oilers get both picks is to give up future picks...so the question is, do you want both Hall and Seguin or not?
Boston has stated on more than one occasion that they are NOT trading that pick for roster players alone.
Boston owns their own 1st rounder and Toronto's next year...I think they'd love the Oilers pick with the hopes that the Oil and Toronto are bottom 5 next year...
I disagree that the Oilers won't be competitive next year with adding both Hall and Seguin. If we don't run into the same rash of injuries next year then I think at worst we are finishing somewhere in the 17th to 20th spot next year.
I would offer hemsky cogs and our first next year. From what I have read next years draft is the weakest draft they have seen in a long long time. I agree that Hemsky will not sign when his contract is up so they should trade him while he is still worth something. If they what Penner as well we could take on a contract like Ryder or if we have to Thomas.
I wonder if Boston would be interested in something like a Hemsky or Penner with Souray deal?
Imagine Chara and Souray on your PP? Deadly...
Again you'd have to juggle a bit to make numbers work but it could be an option eh.
I also agree with crash, we shouldn't trade away any picks. There is always the possibility that we are looking at another top end pick for next year but I believe with the right mix of staying healthy, rookies making an impact, a free agent signing or two and next year we could be in the playoffs. Or we could go the opposite direction... Eberle, MPS, Omark and Seguin/Hall all in Oklahoma to play together and gel together as a group for a year, the big club sucks for one more year (in which time alot of contracts are up that we no longer need) bring up the kids for next season and we make a go for it.
Then again I could be drunk as well...
How about Hemsky, Penner, and Souray for the 2nd pick and unwanted salary from the Bruins?
Don't get me excited Brownlee
I'd trade our first overall and Souray to Boston's 2nd and 15th,plus their 2 first rounders next year. If the Bruins want the number one that bad they better give us a nice return.
I am a huge fan of Matheson...Hockey world rules. But I was a little mystified by some of his suggestions this last time around.
Konichiwa, I am vacationing in Sapporo, Japan. Trying to follow the lord Stanley series. congrats to chicago. I am hoping to see the best pitcher in the world not playing MLB, Yu Darvish pitch this weekend for the Nippon Ham Fighters.
I would trade Hemsky, Cogs and one of the young goalies which we may lose anyways for Boston`s first pick. Penner is the big man with soft hands that give D-men fits which every team desires and the Oilers constantly talked about having. Well Penner has reached that point where he is valuable enough having several multipoint games where he dominated in the offensive zone. KEEP PENNER!
Sayonara Baby!
I would trade hemsky nash and eberle but that would be a pr disaster. Only way we get both is to give up mps or ebs ++ I think though
What's with people saying that they wouldn't trade next years first? Do we really think it's a guarantee that we finish 29th or worse next year?
Is next year's crop supposed to be that much better than this year's? ...Not what I heard, (though my knowledge of it plus $1.75 would get you a cup of coffee).
When you really think about it is there anything on this team AT ALL that you wouldn't trade for the second pick? Maybe there is a combination that would be too much; but ANYTHING on this team is tradable as part of some sort of package for the second overall in my opinion.
I wouldn't trade mps plante or petry
MPS, Eberle untouchable. Gagner would take a helluva lot, but doable for 2nd overall