Uh-oh! Here comes the Smyth for captain crusade. I'd be happy to see the trade happen though. Smyth gave a lot to this team and it would be a good way to see him finish up his career.

I agree with your take on the situation. The trainers don't assess the team, the GM and coaching staff do. What a trainer thinks about players is just an opinion and has no merit with team decisions.

ahh, I am not comparing their skill level, I am comparing the injury.....

Try Ryan Getzlaf

http://oilersnation.com/2008/12/18/ales-hemsky-and-shawn-horcoff

That was an interesting link and fine job of statistical analysis by Willis. I normally don't care for overdone stats, but that was well thought out and organized. It confirms what others have been saying about Horcoff and Hemsky playing together. They complement each other. They've both said it numerous times.

It's about winning Cups.

Actually, that year Getzlaf was not the 1st line centre. Andy McDonald was on the 1st line and finished 2nd on team scoring with 78 points. Getzlaf was in just his 2nd year and had 58 points.

Dear Tool,

Read the VERY LAST SENTENCE from the blog.

"If they took the time to address #1 G, RH 2-way C and a veteran RW this team could make the playoffs."

Seriously.

That's where LT suggested it could be possible.. Now that we've confirmed I infact read the blog. Eat it.

I listen to others, it just so happens that I'm right more often than most of you hacks.

To be fair, I think McDonald was still their #1C at the time. If memory serves, McDonald and Pahlsson's lines faced the tougher competition while Getzlaf and his kid line (Penner-Getzlaf-Perry) got the easier minutes.

EDIT: Baaaah Arch beat me to it.

I hear where you're coming from there.

Come playoff time Getlaf elevated his game substantially to the point you he was pretty much the guy.

It was close come playoff time but I'll give you that for sure.

"The fact he was .909 with that defense last year is all-star material."

Khabby 18gp .909 JDD 48gp .901

Khabby also had Souray and Hesmky for most of his games.

The unintentional comedy in this thread is GOLD!

Yeah, that was Getzlaf's coming out party for sure. After leading the Ducks in playoff scoring, the next season Getzlaf put up almost 30 more points than the season before.

Umm, thanks but I'm not understanding why you referenced this article.

Back in 2008 the Oilers really had no options at center...and again, no one else has ever been given the opportunity to play extended minutes with Hemsky...

Horcoff was always one of MacT's favs and still is to this day.

Horcoff is no longer the best option, or even the 2nd best option...

http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=327346

Hall won't be wearing 94, Smyth might be on his way back... Probably just an Oiler pipe dream...

horcoff will always hold a special place in my heart after having the "shirts off for horcoff" slogan make many a night better on whyte during the cup run...

i try it now and get laughed at, however.

You have to be on the pipe to think Smyth would help the Oilers.

I would really like to see Storitini shipped on out of here. I would rather have a roster spot open for one of the kids or a skilled vet :aka (Mike Comrie) I'm sorry but in MY mind, Zach isn't the best fighter out there. Smac is much better and really, there is no need for two "tough" guys here. He never wins a fight, and when he does drop the mitts it usually consists of hugging and holding the other guy. Just my two cents

if it invloves souray leaving it sure wouldnt hurt..

oilers might end up with the most expensive third line in hockey though. smyth,horcoff,whoever would be about a 15mil 3rd line...

ouch

Horcoff is no longer the best option, or even the 2nd best option...

Interesting assertion, but clearly an opinion only, and not yet a measurable statemnt of fact. With Hemsky not playing most of last season, I find it hard to determine where you found evidence that Gagner, or even Brule are the more effective linemates.

The article I referenced remains relevent, despite the passage of time. Horcoff and Hemsky have not both been healthy, and have consequently not played together very much since the time this article was written. Fact is, a healthy Horcoff is a good option to play with Hemsky. Obviously, if Horcoff continues to struggle, a change will be made. Age, and injury will take their toll and Horcoff will eventually move down the depth chart. Just ease up on some of the vitriol you direct at a good Oiler.

Hey if thats what it takes to get rid of Souray I say they keep Souray. The contract that Smyth has is just to much and would be bad for the Oilers future.

I think Khabibulin will be an asset to the Oilers next year and if he stays healthy goaltending will be the least of the Oilers problem. I think we should sign Comrie, play the kids and see what happens. I like when all you so called Oiler experts fight with each other... it makes me laugh and therefore I continue to be a Oiler Nation fan.

Stortini plays an important role for the Oilers.

For an agitator he's ideal, as a super heavyweight nope!

I was dead wrong about him...the fact he's willing and only -4 in 224 NHL games is impressive.

HEART

It will be 3 years before the kids need new contracts, in 2 years Smyth's would be gone. I really dont see his contract being any more of a detriment than Souray's.

I don't think Captain Canadas contract would be bad for the Oilers compared to Sourays and everything negative he brings with it. I would pay the 850,000 difference to get rid of Souray and bring in Smyth. Would only benefit the younger players. But if the Kings are signing Kovalchuk then they would want to get rid of salary, not swap. So I don't see it happening at all.

I have nothing but respect for Horcoff and his contributions over the years. He's a good Oiler, I agree. Overpaid, but a good Oiler none the less.

Yes, this is all my opinion and I base it on what I see. What I see in the skill level of players such as Gagner and Brule and what I see as far as how they've developed.

I also go on what I see on a nightly basis on the ice. What I see with players on the types of plays they make. Due to seeing the type of skill each player shows. What I see with how quickly players can make an offensive decision on the ice or if the player shows enough skill to make offense happen. Or if they show that the offensive attack dies when they try to handle the puck.

We shouldn't be talking about if Horcoff continues to struggle a change will happen. The time for the change has already happened. The time for it to be shown is now, not later.

As far as some of the vitriol...I'm not really sure what I've said that could be classified as vitriol...I don't hate Horcoff, I just want him used where he would add the most value and that is NOT as Hemsky's center or as the #1C with the #1 PP time...

The Oilers need to clear up cap space for Sid Crosby's "Decision" in 3 years.

~So that's why the team has been accumulating wingers. It's so that Sydney Crosby will want to become an Oiler.~

What a concept...

Canadian star returns Stanley Cup to Canada.

Dare to dream...

Crosby would be a nice fit :)

I think you underestimate Stortini. As a fourth line player he's exactly what the team needs. His fighting improved significantly last year and he's willing to go with anyone. He can also play a regular shift and not hurt you. Smac will not see much ice and will probably only dress for specific games where he might be needed. Stortini has improved every year he's played. The difference in his game from when he arrived to now is impressive.

It's kind of funny and interesting to note that after telling us all how much more right you are than the rest of us hacks that you've admitted twice just on this page and article alone about being wrong.

(ie: check post #161 and #173)

LOL

Have you ever considered posting something that wasn't an uniformed cliche?

haha, i can imagine that call on july 1st.

tambo: hey sid, just wanted to call and personally offer you a 25 year deal at 10 mil per. i have a DVD that we have put together that you should be receiving shortly.

silence

**click**

tambo: hello? hello?

/scene

Maybe I'm thinking out of the box but I value a players performance in the playoffs over the regular season which is why I said Getlaf was the Ducks #1 center when they won the Cup.

Stortini was fawn his first year in the NHL. Dude's come a long way ..

I'm just running through my head how many teams are going to offer him 70 year deals with the league max slotted for the first 20 years and the min for the last 45, averaging only a 3 million dollar Cap hit. It will be highly amusing.

Nate, please stop right there...you're going to dig yourself a hole...

This thinking of valueing a players performance in the playoffs over the regular season is going totally against your thought process of Seguin over Hall.

Quit while you're ahead

We shouldn't be talking about if Horcoff continues to struggle a change will happen. The time for the change has already happened. The time for it to be shown is now, not later.

We sure remember things different. Last season Quinn tried multiple, multiple line combinations that saw JFJ start the season playing with Horcoff and Hemsky. Eventually, the Oilogosphere's collective dream came true and Gagner, Hemsky and Penner formed a line. This group had one great game followed by three or four terrible games before being disassembled. As the season progressed Quinn started playing Horcoff, Hemsky and Penner together almost exclusively and as a group they played very well untill Hemsky got hurt from a dirty Handzus hit in L.A.

I specifically remeber a good road win in Colorado: the trio dominated the night and ridiculously outchanced whoever they lined up against. Horcoff was the forward on a PK unit that killed two or three 5 on 3 penalties. He also scored... and then later took an absolute beating in the post game blogroll right here on OilersNation. Comment after comment: whiffcoff callers, Hatecoff posters, and people who wanted Gagner back on that line despite all numerical, and result based evidence.

Horcoff was the best option to play with Hemsky the day Hemmer got hurt, and still remains the best option until proven otherwise. The numbers, and two completely seperate coaching staffs have already validated this position.

Seguin's 26 points in 20 playoff games isn't terrible.

Do you realize that Toews hasn't scored 70 points in a regular season yet but how valuable he is?

Taylor Hall will probably be an 80 point player eventually which is fantastic but centers are more valuable.

Seguin at 68 points is more valuable than Hall's 80-85

I think the only thing Horcoff is owed is the opportunity to prove his shoulder is better and his play has returned. He should have exactly the same chance that Gagner or even Brule has at playing on the 1st line. Let his play dictate where he belongs.

If a 21 year old Gagner takes a big step forward and beats out Horcoff for #1 then so be it, as long as it's done on the ice.

This year more than any, the Vets better come to camp prepared to fight for their Ice Time.

Last year JFJ earned the top spot out of camp, and rightfully so. His pre-season was tremendous. Later his on-ice performance cost him the job. Same should apply to Horcoff. If he comes back looking like the Horcoff of old, then he SHOULD take the top spot. Until then, he finished the year as a 3rd liner and should remain a 3rd liner until he proves otherwise on the ice.

Gagner isn't even close to ready to play top line minutes. Horcoff must bounce back or I'm afraid the Oilers will be 30th again. I'm ok with another good draft pick since we have little to no offensive dman in the minors.

LT's brain: "Hmmm...maybe I'll pen a nice article about how I think the Oilers depth chart will shape up this fall. Yeah. That's the ticket."

ON collective: "LT made up his Oilers depth chart. Nice! Now back to Horcoff."

*Car crash sound effects* http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2007/10/24/thrillville_narrowweb__300x366,0.jpg

Somewhat agree. My point is: going into camp, top C is Horcoff's spot to lose. Horcoff is still Hemsky's incumbent linemate. I know Horcoff will fall down the depth chart... what I don't know is when. Despite what Crash is saying, it hasn't happened yet.

Result based evidence?...cmon Chris...5 games is hardly result based...this is what I was talking about....you think giving a guy 5 games to gell with linemates is enough to have a definitive result? This is what I was trying to get across before....some of these younger skill guys need the opportunity to also make some mistakes and not have a demotion hanging over their heads.

And you can go back and check any article and you won't find me calling down players in a derogative manner such as hatecoff or any of those other things...in fact I think I remember that game you are talking about and if you check the blogs I believe I even wrote a statement questioning those that would crap on Horcoff after the game he played.

But you can't really defend Horcoff too much on the season he had last year. I will continue to disagree with you...NO Horcoff is not the best option to play with Hemsky and if one of the kids is given an actual opportunity to play in that spot this will show to be true. You can't just keep going back to same ole same ole.

The 2 separate coaching staffs have both been let go which must mean that the Oilers feel another direction is needed. I don't think that either of MacT or Quinn is the type of coach who are onboard with the proper use of multiple youth in the lineup and thus another change. I suspect if we continue to see more of Horcoff as the #1C you'll soon see another new coach in the very near future.

The time has come for this team to show that we are getting better, not remaining the same...

Sorry Nate but I believe it's the opposite...#1 centers have more opportunities to produce points than do #1 wingers.

If you have an 80 to 85 point winger then a center of equal talent should produce more than that...

So I would disagree with your assessment that a 68 pt center is equal to an 85 pt winger...

It's actually the other way around

Has anyone watched much of Ryan Nugent Hopkins live?

Sean Couturier is already 4" & 25 pounds heavier.

You take Kane I'll take Toews...

Guess we'll agree to disagree

Hmmm, don't remember saying I would take Kane over Toews...show me where I said that.

Like you mentioned before...I'll take the guy who peforms in the playoffs, the guy who wins...who is there when the chips are down...who is proven to bring it when the game gets more pressure packed..

Who are the kids that need the opportunity ? Brule, Cogs, Gagner or Fraser ? Based on last years results. Brule had the most growth. Gagner picked up some aspects of his game and wasn't good at the dot or stat sheet, Cogs is almost out of the depth chart. Fraser not likley. Foot speed, FO% and defensive game will be what Renney is looking at.

Gagner's numbers on the dot weren't excellent I agree with you but then no ones were...I do believe Gagner's numbers were better than Horcoff's though and Gagners numbers on the dot have steadily improved each year including last year....so if that trend continues and why couldn't it, then I think Gagner is the best option to be given the opportunity.

He has the most skill and hockey sense amongst our centers and is now into year 4 of his career. If it was me I would let Gagner know that it's his spot and that he will be given ample time to prove he deserves it. This is a rebuild. IMO many of our kids need a bit longer leash to learn and to make mistakes without having some coach willing to move them down to the Stortini line at the drop of a hat.

Who cares about how many wins take place this year. I don't want to be paying to see the same coaching decisions I've witnessed over the last 4 years.

I believe Brule and Penner developed some pretty nice chemistry last year. This has the makings of a good line.

As far as Fraser goes I think he's suited as a tough, hard nosed 4th line center...and Cogs...well that one is up in the air