C13-II SEARCHING FOR CAPTAIN POWER

Wanye
July 19 2010 12:27PM

We need good ice hockey here in the OilersNation. We have been kicked around, beaten down, walked out on, refused to be signed with and forced to watch injured players to beat the band.

It’s time for a change of pace and a return to respectability. The path to anywhere but here will be navigated in large part by the next Captain of the Edmonton Oilers.

As the long rainy Alberta summer marches on, we have been proposing and debating the different candidates for The Job. Last time out we took a look at Ales Hemsky and Mike Comrie and today we will spend some time taking a look at one of the more controversial candidates: BC Native Shawn Horcoff.

SHAWN HORCOFF

 

The fact that Shawn Horcoff is considered by many to be an overpaid multimillionaire, rich even by NHL standards is a particularly delicious piece of irony.

Once considered a long shot to play a regular shift at all, Horcoff willed himself to become a valuable 2-way player, clawing his way from NHL longshot to 4th line player to a point per game man with the ability to deliver valueable defensive hockey at the same time.

Take a look:

Many Horcoff haters forget the instrumental role he played in the SCF run of 2006. He was almost a point a game player during both the regular season and the playoffs that year and was widely considered to be one of the Oilers best players.

He followed up the Cup run with a disappointing season, but bounced back big time in 2007, returning to nearly a point-per-game status and an invitation to the 2008 All Star Game in Atlanta.

Ordinarily a fluffy game of shinny that has a better chance of boring someone to death than injuring anyone playing in the game – for Horcoff it is basically when everything fell to hell. Rumours that Horcoff had injured himself during the All Star Game began to fly in the days following the game as his play declined and he was forced to remove himself from the line up. 

Whether he had aggrevated an existing injury or was actually impossibly hurt during the game, his 07-08 campaign came to a close shortly thereafter as he was forced to undergo season ending shoulder surgery in February 2008.

Then on July 16, 2008 everything changed.

 

This was the day when the money train pulled up to the Horcoff Mansion and didn't stop unloading bags of cash until he had inked a 6 year contract worth 33 million dollars. At the time, it was considered a coup for the Oilers, who were able to stop the long time migration of premiere NHL players to richer waters.

An Oiler his entire career, Horcoff was under lock and key until the 2014-15 Season.

''Shawn has proven himself as one of the premier players in the National Hockey League and has been and will continue to be an integral part of our organization moving forward,'' said Kevin Lowe at the announcement of the contract.

' 'By being proactive with this deal, we avoid being in a situation where Shawn could become an unrestricted free agent after next season and the unknown free agency can bring to the organization. Having him under contract long-term is something that has been on our radar for a long time and we are extremely pleased to finalize this deal.''

Perhaps it was being placed in the rarified air of the NHL elite or perhaps it was the damage done to his surgically repaired shoulder from lifting his now considerable wallet. For whatever reason, Horcoff has been unable to meet the massive expectations of his long term deal, attracting the rage of many of the OilersNation in the process.

Scorecoff, became Whiffcoff, Crapcoff, What-a-rip-coff and the poster boy for the Oilers woes in the seasons following the Cup run. The fact he can be brought up as a potential candidate for the next Captain of the Oilers is a testament to his value even under the burden of a massive contract.

One of the fittest players in the NHL, Horcoff can be accused of being many things – but his work ethic and dedication to the game cannot be among them. He hasn't complained once publicly during the past 4 seasons unlike many of his veteran brothers and has remained popular in the dressing room - reportedly shying away from the Souray-Moreau faction, instead focusing on his own game and returning to form.

This could be exactly what the 2010-11 Oilers need in a Captain.

THE PITCH

We would argue that Shawn Horcoff isn't nearly as bad as his haters would have you believe. Would he be re-signed to the same deal if Lowe could go back in time? Obviously not. Is he as bad as his 36 point campaign in 2009-10 would lead you to believe? No.

Is he going anywhere with a cap hit of $5.5 milion until the end of the 2014-15 season? Get real.

If Horcoff is going to be here anyway – and best believe he will – making the mature veteran into the C13 might be an excellent way to derive further value from him for the next 5 years.

Maturity, dedication and the ability to function with a crippling case of heterochromia. Fitness, determination and the bank to lend any young Oilers money to tide them over until the next payday.

This is what Horcoff can bring to the table as the next Captain of the Oilers.

09049f03ecb006ab29372206f2a88f75
Blog so hard motherf**ckers try and find me. Email me at wanyegretz@gmail.com or tweet me @wanyegretz provided it is about Jordan Eberle or babes.
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#101 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
July 19 2010, 10:43PM
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washed up wrote:

Easy Big wiskey... I said i would kinda compare him to Stevens. Not he is Stevens as in their style was somewhat similar with the grit and all. I was making a point that the critera for making a D-MAN captain is somewhat different than a forward IMO. IF you can think of a D-Man who was captian of their team that's more comparable by all means fill me in.

Craig Rivet.

And even he is far more skilled then Smith was.

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#102 David S
July 19 2010, 10:49PM
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I thought Stauffer and Karius made a pretty decent team last year.

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#103 washed up
July 19 2010, 11:08PM
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@OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F

Craig Rivet would be a better player to compare Smith to, but that really wasn't the point of the post. My point was that IMO the critera to make a D-Man captain is different is some aspects than that of a foward. A solid defense man that palys that part of the game well and as has grit is more highly regarded then a foward with the same skill set.

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#104 RossCreekNation
July 19 2010, 11:27PM
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@Robin Brownlee

I know you're on vacation, but I just had a thought...

You brought up Ken Hitchcock's name a while back, prior to any decisions were made RE: Pat Quinn. ANY chance he's open to an Associate post under Renney? Does he have the itch to get back on that bench, even if its for less pay & a reduced role? Renney didn't let his ego get in the way of working under Pat... Ken seems like he'd be the same type - no problems working under Tom. Hell, the Oil could even pay Hitchcock like a head coach. He'd add the sizzle to the staff that everyone was waiting for when Smith & Buchberger were announced.

Just a thought to revist, (maybe?)...

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#105 Wanyes bastard child
July 20 2010, 12:10AM
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Few things...

@RossCreek

Hitchcock would be sweet as the other coach but for some reason I just can't see it happening.

@LT

I don't know how to comment on your blog, in your predictions article you mentioned Strudwick retiring and taking a coaching job. Im curious as to what would make you think of such a bold prediction? Given the way the Oilers rushed to re-sign him early I don't think he will be moving into coaching this year, maybe in the future but not this soon.

@Horcoff/C13

In the earlier poll asking if he would bounce back I voted "Maybe so". To me his bouncing back and having a productive season depends on how much Renney plays him. If Horcoff isn't taking %99.99999 of all faceoffs I can see him fitting into the #1 centre spot nicely. That being said im still of the opinion that everyone has to fight for their job come TC. This and also his shoulder being %100.

As for C13... I can see Horcoff as the best vet we have on the team as the next Captain. Being said I think im firmly in the "wait and see" camp and let a leader emerge from the group before jumping into a choice just for the sake of having a captain. And if Horcoff is the one that takes the role I can see him stepping down in a few years once Gagner is ready to take over.

@Wanye/Bingo

Just a thought I had. Flamesnation is starting to roll along nicely (I never actually check the canucks one...) but would it be an idea to have all three sites have links to the others? It may lead to more interweb "trolls" such as RC but it also may lead to more exposure, I dunno, just a thought.

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#106 DC
July 20 2010, 05:44AM
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Khabby C13? Did they announce his cell block already?

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#107 SurfacetoAirMissile
July 20 2010, 07:01AM
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It is time to face reality. Horc has limited offensive talent. No more number one power play minutes and 1st line center minutes UNLESS it is late in the game or period and we need a faceoff won. Horc may have average offensive skills but he has many other attributes the coach can tap into to get the most out this player. If Renney uses his skills in a way that reflects his abilities and not his salary then I would be ok with Horc becoming C13. Renney can place Horc in all the tough situations when a draw needs to be won. Give Horc the number one PK minutes and the second line PP minutes. Play Horc on the the 2nd or 3rd line with the exception of the afore mentioned situations and he should be able to make a significant contribution this year.

If you take into consideration Horc's time served as an Oiler and the fact he is going to be an Oiler for years to come I think at this point he is the only real choice. Perhaps down the road a better choice will emerge but with all things considered Horc will be leading the Oilers on and off the ice for the next few years.

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#108 Crackenbury
July 20 2010, 07:26AM
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@RossCreekNation

I doubt Hitchcock is even on the radar. I think a more offensive minded coach is what they are looking for. The three guys there are fairly defense oriented already.

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#109 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
July 20 2010, 07:33AM
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RossCreekNation wrote:

I know you're on vacation, but I just had a thought...

You brought up Ken Hitchcock's name a while back, prior to any decisions were made RE: Pat Quinn. ANY chance he's open to an Associate post under Renney? Does he have the itch to get back on that bench, even if its for less pay & a reduced role? Renney didn't let his ego get in the way of working under Pat... Ken seems like he'd be the same type - no problems working under Tom. Hell, the Oil could even pay Hitchcock like a head coach. He'd add the sizzle to the staff that everyone was waiting for when Smith & Buchberger were announced.

Just a thought to revist, (maybe?)...

I'm not a big fan of having two "head" coaches (or former head coaches). I think you need one clear leader, just like with the on ice product you need to build a team with complementary skill sets, not just collect all the talent you can.

This past year doesn't give alot of credence to the strategy either.

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#110 madjam
July 20 2010, 07:45AM
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Can Oilers double the length of Souray , Horcoff and Khabby contracts with the minimum amount over the new seasons ? By doing so their cap hit would be slightly over the 50% mark and trader friendly . That Kovalchuk deal is crazy, and i find the league should start doing something about the Magicmatics these clubs are using to lower cap hits !

How moveable would Souray , Khabby and Horcoff be at approximately half their present contract cap hits ?

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#111 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
July 20 2010, 08:13AM
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madjam wrote:

Can Oilers double the length of Souray , Horcoff and Khabby contracts with the minimum amount over the new seasons ? By doing so their cap hit would be slightly over the 50% mark and trader friendly . That Kovalchuk deal is crazy, and i find the league should start doing something about the Magicmatics these clubs are using to lower cap hits !

How moveable would Souray , Khabby and Horcoff be at approximately half their present contract cap hits ?

No

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#112 BUCK75
July 20 2010, 08:22AM
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@David S

I didn't think their style was too bad either. I liked Stauffer as the PBP, but I think he likes doing the radio show gig too much. The fans connect with him, he has an opinion & I would even say he is probably the best show host in Edmonton.

I think that if the Oilers want to have a 2 hour show some 250 days a year, Bob is the best choice for the host. If they want to have a PBP guy, he might not be the best choice. Look how well the Eskimo's experiment is going. If you are going to hire a new play by play guy to replace a legend, he had better be able to do the job at least, not just be given the job.

As Gregor said, play by play guys from Southern markets might like to move up here. I hope it isn't Dave Mishkin.

While looking for "southern candidates" I read that the Dallas Stars have 1 guy to do a radio & TV simulcast. Ralph Strangis might be too old, but this sounds like something the oilers might consider if the rumors of them getting their own radio station & tv network are true.

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#113 Oiler Country
July 20 2010, 09:36AM
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Can we add any more bad Karma to Horcoff? Sure, make him the 13th captain of a currently in rebuild mode hockey club.

He needs to just work on his game, not add more pressure to his already full plate of obligations.

I'm slowly subscribing to the idea of having alternating captains this year, see who steps up, then make a decision after a long hard look at the team. A captain will come, but wait for him to show himself.

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#114 Soft Hands McSteeley - FIST Movement
July 20 2010, 09:38AM
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BRING BACK MARTY PARTY TO BE C13!!

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#115 rubbertrout
July 20 2010, 09:48AM
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Mike wrote:

This just re-affirms why the Nation is the best site on the Net for Oiler talk. I will never click on another link from someone trying to flog their own site. And trying to copy Gregor's Ice women of the week on Thursdays is incredibly lame. Sorry Etown guy, but I recommend no one waste their time and hit your link.

There's nothing wrong with pimping your own site if you do it respectfully. I would never have seen www.domebeers.com if it weren't for that and that dude is funny as hell.

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#116 Ender
July 20 2010, 09:55AM
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@ RossCreek

I think one of the reasons Renney was willing to work as an 'Associate' coach was because it was clear that he was to succeed Quinn at some point in time (though perhaps he didn't expect quite as soon as this). In Hitchcock's case, that wouldn't happen; I don't see Hitchcock ever being in a position to supplant Renney as Head Coach. Without that carrot, Hitchcock doesn't have any incentive to work as an Associate. In this way, the situations are not comparable and I don't see our organization as a logical place for Hitchcock to come.

Of course, if there ever comes a day when Hitch is no longer considered a prime candidate for head coaching positions and is considering lesser roles just to keep his hand in . . .

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#117 Traktor
July 20 2010, 10:00AM
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Horcoff is already the elephant in the room.

He already gets booed regularly at home games.

Let's be honest - if Horcoff had an expiring contract he wouldn't be with the club right now. The only thing keeping him on the club right now is his contract.

Horcoff is more of a nuisance than the captain of this club.

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#118 Crackenbury
July 20 2010, 10:02AM
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Wanye,

The new ON "previous 1 2 3 next" color of white on grey doesn't work on most handhelds. Most handhelds use white as a default background to conserve power so it ends up being white on white and you're unable to move between comment pages because you can't see the text. It's there, you just have to try and guess where to click.

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#119 mike
July 20 2010, 10:03AM
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"The only thing keeping him on the club right now is his contract".

Actually if Horcoff wasn't overpaid, traktor's obsession would be very lonely.

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#120 Traktor
July 20 2010, 10:20AM
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mike wrote:

"The only thing keeping him on the club right now is his contract".

Actually if Horcoff wasn't overpaid, traktor's obsession would be very lonely.

Horcoff could make 2 million and I still wouldn't want him on the club.

I want no part of him in the top 6 and he's too soft for the bottom 6 as well. He's 6'2 and regularly gets outhit by Robert Nilsson. Plus he can't even stay healthy.

I would accept a 25 point version of Horcoff if he played with the same grit as Ryan Kesler but unfortunately he doesn't have any resemblance of edge to his game.

Horcoff might be hard to score against (debatable) but he's one of the easiest players to play against in the league. He's another cream puff on a club full of cream puffs.

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#121 Alan
July 20 2010, 10:32AM
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BUCK75 wrote:

I didn't think their style was too bad either. I liked Stauffer as the PBP, but I think he likes doing the radio show gig too much. The fans connect with him, he has an opinion & I would even say he is probably the best show host in Edmonton.

I think that if the Oilers want to have a 2 hour show some 250 days a year, Bob is the best choice for the host. If they want to have a PBP guy, he might not be the best choice. Look how well the Eskimo's experiment is going. If you are going to hire a new play by play guy to replace a legend, he had better be able to do the job at least, not just be given the job.

As Gregor said, play by play guys from Southern markets might like to move up here. I hope it isn't Dave Mishkin.

While looking for "southern candidates" I read that the Dallas Stars have 1 guy to do a radio & TV simulcast. Ralph Strangis might be too old, but this sounds like something the oilers might consider if the rumors of them getting their own radio station & tv network are true.

I agree that Stauffer and Karius were good as a team, however I think Gregor's show hosting skills are much better. He has the knowledge to talk any sport and his show is way more informative. Bob takes way too many calls, which gets old quickly. Stauffer is good, but I'll take Gregor's show anyday.

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#122 DougWeightProblem
July 20 2010, 10:42AM
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On the lighter side ...

If you're "searching for captain power", look no further than the actual Captain Power. He's a gritty leader who can put up points, and he brings with him the Soldiers of the Future. Truly ideal, no?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M678PVOf5F0

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#123 mike
July 20 2010, 11:14AM
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"he's one of the easiest players to play against in the league."

Traktor. The poster child for saw 'em bad obsession. Never inhaled a number he did not like. 30 teams would line up for Traktor's $2M contract.

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#124 mike
July 20 2010, 11:18AM
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"might be hard to score against (debatable) but he's one of the easiest players to play against"

Traktor,

You prefer guys that are hard to play against and easy to score on? Go figure.

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#125 Traktor
July 20 2010, 11:29AM
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Mike:

I prefer players that make the other team play tough minutes. Horc can't do that offensively or physically. In soccer terms all Horcoff can do is jockey.

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#126 Ender
July 20 2010, 11:32AM
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Traktor wrote:

[Horcoff is] one of the easiest players to play against in the league.

Please, do tell. I figure that with 30 teams, there are about 750 'regular' players in the NHL. I would love to hear more about your argument that Horcoff is at the bottom of the list and what metrics you are using to measure this by. It will be facinating reading, I'm sure . . .

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#127 Traktor
July 20 2010, 11:41AM
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Ender wrote:

Traktor wrote:

[Horcoff is] one of the easiest players to play against in the league.

Please, do tell. I figure that with 30 teams, there are about 750 'regular' players in the NHL. I would love to hear more about your argument that Horcoff is at the bottom of the list and what metrics you are using to measure this by. It will be facinating reading, I'm sure . . .

Basically any opposing player can retrieve pucks without the fear of being hit from Horcoff - this makes their job much, much easier.

They don't have to worry about Horcoff offensively - Horcoff couldn't create a ham sandwich never mind a scoring chance. They also don't have to worry about Horcoff physically as you couldn't even grind up coffee.

Horcoff = zero threat

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#128 Traktor
July 20 2010, 11:44AM
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There's a reason why guys like O'Sullivan look like the best player in practice and then go missing in real games.

Put the pansy O'Sullivan against a team full of Horcoff's and he's probably an 80 point guy.

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#129 David S
July 20 2010, 11:45AM
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At the risk of contributing to the "Horcoff deviation theorem"*, I think its fair to say that last year was not a reasonable evaluation of his abilities. Buddy should have been on IR for a good part of the season.

*"All Oilers threads will inevitably deviate to a discussion of the relative merits of Shawn Horcoff."

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#130 Chris.
July 20 2010, 11:51AM
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@Traktor

You should change your handle to DeTraktor.

Who would your choice for captain be... or do you just hate everybody?

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#131 Bucknuck
July 20 2010, 12:00PM
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Wanye, this article is golden. I wish I could give you props.

I believe this time next year many people will feel the same way about Horcoff that we now feel about Penner: "I used to hate him last year when he was a bum, but this year he wasn't so I am a fan again."

Last season was his worst since the lockout, and I think he will rebound nicely this year and shut up his critics.

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#132 mike
July 20 2010, 12:03PM
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"this makes their job much, much easier."

deTraktor, so easy he's (debatable) hard to score on? I assume you are lucid on topics other that Horcoff.

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#133 Traktor
July 20 2010, 12:07PM
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Chris. wrote:

You should change your handle to DeTraktor.

Who would your choice for captain be... or do you just hate everybody?

The people that thought Penner was bad last year are merely sheep echoing something the coach said, who was later fired.

Penner finished 1st in GFON60 Penner finished 1st in GAON60 Penner finished 1st in GFON/GAON/60 differential

The simple fact is Penner was quality difference maker every time he stepped on the ice - those who couldn't see past the coaches comments have opinions that shouldn't be trusted.

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#134 colesjr
July 20 2010, 12:08PM
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Traktor wrote:

Horcoff could make 2 million and I still wouldn't want him on the club.

I want no part of him in the top 6 and he's too soft for the bottom 6 as well. He's 6'2 and regularly gets outhit by Robert Nilsson. Plus he can't even stay healthy.

I would accept a 25 point version of Horcoff if he played with the same grit as Ryan Kesler but unfortunately he doesn't have any resemblance of edge to his game.

Horcoff might be hard to score against (debatable) but he's one of the easiest players to play against in the league. He's another cream puff on a club full of cream puffs.

Comparing the physicality of Bobby Nilsson and Shawn Horcoff is a joke.I will say Horcoff has benefited in the the past from good line mates but his grit and dedication should not be questioned. A high road kinda guy with better than average skills in all areas of the game. He has been crucified for a contract he was offered. We should embrace good players who embrace Our team and Our town. Horcoff is the only option for Captain until one of the kids is ready to lead this club. Kesler by the way is an idiot. Bad mouthing Luongo at the Olympics...Dumb.

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#135 Crash
July 20 2010, 12:11PM
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Bucknuck wrote:

Wanye, this article is golden. I wish I could give you props.

I believe this time next year many people will feel the same way about Horcoff that we now feel about Penner: "I used to hate him last year when he was a bum, but this year he wasn't so I am a fan again."

Last season was his worst since the lockout, and I think he will rebound nicely this year and shut up his critics.

I've never understood this reasoning that Penner was a bum....and don't know how the arguement could actually be made that he was but with Horcoff the evidence is clearly there...

What I don't understand is how so many keep coming to his defense time after time after time and continue to want this guy to be in the top three or even top six for that matter and centering our top PP unit...

As far as those believing that he should have been on IR last year...well if he was hurt enough to be on IR he would have been...anyone else last year that was hurt enough to be on IR was so why would Horcoff be any different? Especially after the season was a wash...if he was that hurt then he wouldn't have been in the lineup...it's just more excuses in a long line of excuses...

I don't hate Horcoff but I don't want him anywhere near the top six....give him the shutdown role and see if he can handle it...time to move forward with this team, not sideways or backwards.

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#136 Traktor
July 20 2010, 12:14PM
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"Comparing the physicality of Bobby Nilsson and Shawn Horcoff is a joke"

HITS PER GAME:

2009/2010

Nilsson 0.5 Horcoff 0.45

2008/2009

Nilsson 0.57 Horcoff 0.35

Comparing Horcoff to Nilsson when it comes to physical play was actually being generous.

Sad thing is Nilsson is 5'11 and Horcoff is 6'2.

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#137 Ender
July 20 2010, 12:27PM
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Traktor wrote:

Basically any opposing player can retrieve pucks without the fear of being hit from Horcoff - this makes their job much, much easier. They don't have to worry about Horcoff offensively - Horcoff couldn't create a ham sandwich never mind a scoring chance. They also don't have to worry about Horcoff physically as you couldn't even grind up coffee. Horcoff = zero threat

I look forward to reading the analysis from which you derived such brilliant observations. In the interim, I'll list a few facts for the rest of us chuckleheads to go over:

Of 879 statistically recorded players in the NHL last season, do you know how many of them scored better than Horcoff's 36 points? 192. That means that on average, Horcoff last season playing with a bum shoulder is 6th or 7th on any roster in the NHL in scoring. ~Yeah, as an opposing coach I wouldn't have any concern either.~

But let's discuss hits. Horcoff clearly can't do that and if you can't hit, you have no value, right? I guess it doesn't surprise you to know that, again, with a bum shoulder, Horcoff threw more hits last year than Patrick Kane, Ilya Kovalchuk, Alex Semin, Maxim Afinogenov, Steve Sullivan, and Ray Whitney (to name just a few other players who have no value either).

Clearly, Traktor, you've given this more thought than us. I can't wait until you show us how we've erred so dramatically in thinking that Horcoff was an NHL calibre player.

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#138 SurfacetoAirMissile
July 20 2010, 12:32PM
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I think next year The Oilers should make a splash and make up for the mistake of not taking Parise in the draft and making an offer sheet for him. Unless something changes this year they will only have Arnott and Langenbrunners contracts expiring along with Parise's. Much like Chicago this year NJ will be up against it next year having signed Kovalchuk to that crazy 17 year contract. I can't see anyone taking on the remainder of Elias's or Rolston's contracts.

I don't want to rush the rebuild but Parise is young and talented and I think would fit it nicely with the new crop of players we now have. I would rather eat Souray's contract over the next 2 years than take back equal or longer term deals just to get him out. All the talk about Smyth coming back to the Oil is silly. I would rather overpay on an offer sheet to a young talented forward like Parise than overpay for an older talented declining player like Smyth.

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#139 Traktor
July 20 2010, 12:36PM
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"Of 879 statistically recorded players in the NHL last season, do you know how many of them scored better than Horcoff's 36 points? 192. That means that on average, Horcoff last season playing with a bum shoulder is 6th or 7th on any roster in the NHL in scoring. ~Yeah, as an opposing coach I wouldn't have any concern either.~

But let's discuss hits. Horcoff clearly can't do that and if you can't hit, you have no value, right? I guess it doesn't surprise you to know that, again, with a bum shoulder, Horcoff threw more hits last year than Patrick Kane, Ilya Kovalchuk, Alex Semin, Maxim Afinogenov, Steve Sullivan, and Ray Whitney (to name just a few other players who have no value either)."

What a joke post.

You compare Horcoff offensively with guys like Smack and Boogieman and then compare Horcoff physically with 90-100 point players lol.

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#140 Ender
July 20 2010, 12:40PM
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@Traktor

Well, one of us is a joker. I'll let the Nation decide which one it is.

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#141 mike
July 20 2010, 12:47PM
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Traktor wants hard to play against. Not interested in hard to score against.

Some jokes almost write themselves.

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#142 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
July 20 2010, 12:52PM
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Traktor wrote:

Basically any opposing player can retrieve pucks without the fear of being hit from Horcoff - this makes their job much, much easier.

They don't have to worry about Horcoff offensively - Horcoff couldn't create a ham sandwich never mind a scoring chance. They also don't have to worry about Horcoff physically as you couldn't even grind up coffee.

Horcoff = zero threat

2 (and I'd be willing to bet, soon to be 3) coaching staffs disagree with you.

Traktor = zero credibility

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#143 Crash
July 20 2010, 12:52PM
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Ender wrote:

Well, one of us is a joker. I'll let the Nation decide which one it is.

I don't think he's that far off in making his arguement...

I actually couldn't understand you comparing Horcoff to players such as Kane, Semin, Kovalchuk, Whitney, Sullivan when making your arguement that Horcoff has more hits as these other players clearly supply much more in the way of offense to offset anything they don't contribute as far as hits go.

You did cherry pick your stats a bit to support Horcoff and the best you could come up with is that Horcoff at a 5.5 mil cap hit would be in the around the 7th highest scorer on avg on most teams in the NHL with his 36pts...

But how many of those 36pts were a result of Horcoff actually playing in a top six role where he shouldn't have been playing...what would his totals be if he was given reduced minutes (as he should) and played more of a checking role? I would hazard a guess that his totals wouldn't put him in the top 192 which isn't exactly something to brag about anyway.

I'm interested to know why you didn't choose to look at the plus/minus stat and point out that Horcoff amongst 879 players was 877th overall...3rd worst in the entire league.

I haven't done the research but how does Horcoff compare to other players in the league with 36 pts or less as far as hits go? I would be curious to know. I mean if a player isn't going to provide offense with as many minutes as Horcoff gets then what should we expect him to contribute...I think it's a fair question.

I'm not with Traktor or against Traktor but his arguement is not that far off...

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#144 rubbertrout
July 20 2010, 12:56PM
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Traktor wrote:

Horcoff could make 2 million and I still wouldn't want him on the club.

I want no part of him in the top 6 and he's too soft for the bottom 6 as well. He's 6'2 and regularly gets outhit by Robert Nilsson. Plus he can't even stay healthy.

I would accept a 25 point version of Horcoff if he played with the same grit as Ryan Kesler but unfortunately he doesn't have any resemblance of edge to his game.

Horcoff might be hard to score against (debatable) but he's one of the easiest players to play against in the league. He's another cream puff on a club full of cream puffs.

You just showed a fundamental misunderstanding of the value of a hockey player. Put him on re-entry waivers and I guarantee there would be a line up of teams wanting to take him at half of his cap hit. Sure he's overpaid but your comment is indefensible.

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#145 rubbertrout
July 20 2010, 12:57PM
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mike wrote:

"might be hard to score against (debatable) but he's one of the easiest players to play against"

Traktor,

You prefer guys that are hard to play against and easy to score on? Go figure.

Brilliant.

*commences slow clap

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#146 Aleslav Smidsky
July 20 2010, 01:01PM
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Horcoff should be the captain on the farm team. There, he can teach the kids who lack skill(like he does) that hard work and effort will get you on a few teams in the NHL. He should not be the captain on this rebuilding team.

Where is this shoulder injury everyone keeps using for an excuse? Just because you saw him with an icebag on his shoulder after a game where he got ripped for -5. That was not an injuury, it was a poor excuse. If he was so injuried why did he and why did the oilganization keep him playing? There was no injury! Horcoffs game is on a decline as you will see this year. He never was sh!t and never will be. Hemsky made him and thats the bottom line.

Horcoff has nothing to offer that stands out, nothing. He skates weak, he cant hit, he cant shoot, he cant stick handle. He is the worlds most rewarded try-hard.

I don't know where these people get off defending him and why..??..??

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#147 rubbertrout
July 20 2010, 01:02PM
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Aleslav Smidsky wrote:

Horcoff should be the captain on the farm team. There, he can teach the kids who lack skill(like he does) that hard work and effort will get you on a few teams in the NHL. He should not be the captain on this rebuilding team.

Where is this shoulder injury everyone keeps using for an excuse? Just because you saw him with an icebag on his shoulder after a game where he got ripped for -5. That was not an injuury, it was a poor excuse. If he was so injuried why did he and why did the oilganization keep him playing? There was no injury! Horcoffs game is on a decline as you will see this year. He never was sh!t and never will be. Hemsky made him and thats the bottom line.

Horcoff has nothing to offer that stands out, nothing. He skates weak, he cant hit, he cant shoot, he cant stick handle. He is the worlds most rewarded try-hard.

I don't know where these people get off defending him and why..??..??

~haven't you listened to Big Sexy? This team forces you to play hurt all the time.~

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#148 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
July 20 2010, 01:07PM
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Aleslav Smidsky wrote:

Horcoff should be the captain on the farm team. There, he can teach the kids who lack skill(like he does) that hard work and effort will get you on a few teams in the NHL. He should not be the captain on this rebuilding team.

Where is this shoulder injury everyone keeps using for an excuse? Just because you saw him with an icebag on his shoulder after a game where he got ripped for -5. That was not an injuury, it was a poor excuse. If he was so injuried why did he and why did the oilganization keep him playing? There was no injury! Horcoffs game is on a decline as you will see this year. He never was sh!t and never will be. Hemsky made him and thats the bottom line.

Horcoff has nothing to offer that stands out, nothing. He skates weak, he cant hit, he cant shoot, he cant stick handle. He is the worlds most rewarded try-hard.

I don't know where these people get off defending him and why..??..??

So do you feel you've outsmarted MacT/Quinn and soon to be Renney?

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#149 Aleslav Smidsky
July 20 2010, 01:10PM
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How do you make a comment like that? How would I feel I outsmarted them? What are you getting at?

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#150 Crash
July 20 2010, 01:12PM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

So do you feel you've outsmarted MacT/Quinn and soon to be Renney?

I hate to say this because you're a Hall guy, lol but MacT felt Horcoff should be on Team Canada at the Olympics...so why wasn't he?

Did the Team Canada officials outsmart MacT and Quinn?

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