This Generation's Stan Weir

Lowetide
July 07 2010 07:41AM

This is Stan Weir. He is a very important figure in Oilers history, because of his role on the first three Oiler NHL teams. He was a vital part of the group in 79-80, his role began to fade the following season (as detailed by Peter Gzowski in his classic book The Game of Our Lives).

Weir did the difficult work until the gifted kids could take on the chores, and in that way lives forever in Oiler lore. 

In the past few days, we've heard Steve Tambellini talk about adding a veteran presence (wanted a C, would settle for a W) and the truth is the club could use both of those player types (a Mike Peca and a Fernando Pisani).

Free agents don't flock to 30th place teams, but they will in future years with the opportunity to play alongside more mature versions of Hall, MPS and Eberle.

In the absence of this free agent signing (unlikely this summer as the quality UFA's slowly sign with other teams) the "Stan Weir" role will probably fall to Shawn Horcoff. He is the most complete player among the forwards (which is not the same as most talented) and he has displayed a willingness to do whatever is asked of him.

He has been to a SCF, he blocked a shot with his face in an important playoff game, he is a leader and he can help show the way. He did not (apparently) associate himself too closely with the veteran group (Souray, Moreau) that has been flushed (or will be flushed).

Horcoff will likely start the season on the top two lines, but as the kids develop (and possibly by next year) the trip down the depth chart will begin (as it did with Weir). By this time next season, Sam Gagner might be the 1C, the top 4 wingers might include Hall, MPS and Eberle, and Shawn Horcoff might be on the checking line.

Fans associate Shawn Horcoff with his massive contract and that's human nature. I do hope the boos give way to cheers at some point, as Horcoff's role on the new Oilers will be the most difficult one on the roster.

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Lowetide has been one of the Oilogosphere's shining lights for over a century. You can check him out here at OilersNation and at lowetide.ca. He is also the host of Lowdown with Lowetide weekday mornings 10-noon on Team 1260.
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#101 The Other John
July 07 2010, 12:24PM
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I am not a fan of Horcoff at his current salary ($ and term) or as Jason Gregor insists....his "salary cap hit", but nor am I a fan of Edmonton winters. My dislike of both is completely irrelevant. When one looks at the length of the Horcoff contract term....we have a better chance of Edm winters getting warmer than Horcoff leaving this team for a LONG time!!

It is a bad contract (when I am grumpy I usually say "ridiculous") but he is also a very useful player and if he is your second line center you will win a round or 2 in the playoffs. If he is your 3rd line center you will get to see 4 playoff series.

Too bad he is the only one on our NHL roster who doesn't get absolutely schooled in face-off dot.

One of the most underrated aspects of 05/06 Oilers team was that we had the BEST face-off men (collectively) in the NHL---Horcoff, Reasoneer. Peca and Stoll. Each were very good and very balanced...2 righty, 2 lefties.

Now...we just give the other team the puck on face-offs...frequently...cleanly!

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#102 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
July 07 2010, 12:30PM
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Next up, is Connor McJesus. wrote:

Why do we continue to set the bar at curb level on this hockey club? Is it Horcoffs blazing speed, his booming shot, his toughness? This contract is an embarassment to the Edmonton Oilers Hockey Club. How can we justify having a third line center (hamburger vs steak scenario) on a 30th place hockey club anywhere near the perceived future of this team? Players of Horcoffs skillset are going for a third of what the Oilers are going to pay Shawn Horcoff this year. To have this contract as a benchmark in todays NHL is a crime and must be the laughing stock of GM's.

Stan Weir would have got run out of town as well if he made more than Gretzky, Messier, Anderson, MacDonald etc.

5.5 million gets you about 65 points in todays NHL. So lets get a grip on reality here.

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#103 rickithebear
July 07 2010, 12:35PM
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Renney takes over: Brule: 17gm 5G 7A .71PPG -3 before 48gm 12G 13A .52ppg -5. production increased and saw off. He is kept for point production and breaking even with coach change

Cogliano: 21gm 5G 10A .71ppg +3 before 61gm 5G 8A .21ppg -8. Production increase and Outscoring. He is kept for point production and improve ability to outscore with coach change.

Pisani: 18gm 2G 4A .33ppg -4 before 22gm 2G 0A .09ppg -12. Increased production and improved +/-. Not enough production, not outscoring with new coaching change. not retained.

Moreau: 16gm 3G 2A .31ppg -4 before 58gm 7G 5A .21ppg -14. Slight increase in production and saw off +/-. Not enough production and outscoring leveled off. Waivered

Nilsson: 17gm 5G 2A .41ppg +4 before 43gm 6G 12A .41ppg -21 Not production increase dramatic +/- change. Bought out.

Potulny: 20gm 1G 9A .5ppg -8 before 44gm 14G 8A .5ppg -13. Point production the same and +/- a saw off.

POS: 13gm 1G 3A .31ppg -7 before 60gm 10G 20A .5ppg -28 Point production went down and =/- awful and did not improve. Traded to Phx to be bought out.

Players showed marked improvement with the line control from Renney.

The player who did not are gone.

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#104 Archaeologuy
July 07 2010, 12:39PM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

5.5 million gets you about 65 points in todays NHL. So lets get a grip on reality here.

Yeah, but Horcoff produced half of that. The ire is deserved. Excuses or not, he was brutal last year. Maybe he bounces back this year.

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#105 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
July 07 2010, 12:44PM
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Archaeologuy wrote:

Yeah, but Horcoff produced half of that. The ire is deserved. Excuses or not, he was brutal last year. Maybe he bounces back this year.

Yes, one year in last 5 where he was significantly under that number.

Now he needs to go out and put up 50+ for the next couple of years and then from their inflation will bring his contract down to a point where 40ish points will do.

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#106 Dyckster
July 07 2010, 12:45PM
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In other news - http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=326865

Lombardi after Kovalchuk kinda looking like Lowe/Tambellini chasing Heatley?

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#107 SurfacetoAirMissile
July 07 2010, 12:47PM
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@ Archaeologuy

Here, here! Brutal is an understatement.... with the exception of POS, I was most disapointed with Horcs play last year. Horc looked like a deer in the head lights when ever he crossed the blueline with the puck.... his confidence was so shaken he couldn't even dump the puck in the corner with any reliability. Money aside, I hope Horc has a bounce back year and proves his worth to the Oil.

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#108 Archaeologuy
July 07 2010, 12:48PM
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@OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F

I'm not sure about that. The Cap hits for good players arent going up. They're going down due to creative contract structures and teams having a lot of Cap already dedicated to other players.

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#109 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
July 07 2010, 12:55PM
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Archaeologuy wrote:

I'm not sure about that. The Cap hits for good players arent going up. They're going down due to creative contract structures and teams having a lot of Cap already dedicated to other players.

Toews/Kane/Backstrom/Pleckanec/Kesler and soon to be Kovalchuk disagree.

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#110 I am the Liquor
July 07 2010, 12:56PM
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rickithebear wrote:

//Like I said, he's my goat because I think he failed to deliver what the Oilers desperately needed from him.//

At the end of the year Horcoff's production playing with Pisani and Moreau facing the other teams best at the end of the year: 23games 4goals 12 assists +2. Rest of the year: 54games 9G 11A -31

The difference? Renny running the lines at the end of the year.

The epic fail goat is OTC (quinn)

Nice to see you paint yourself into a corner again. So next year when Horcoff tries to decide between sucking or blowing, we can all look back on this tripe and share a good laugh.

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#111 Archaeologuy
July 07 2010, 01:01PM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

Toews/Kane/Backstrom/Pleckanec/Kesler and soon to be Kovalchuk disagree.

Every guy you mentioned is significantly better than Horcoff. Every one of them. They arent very good comparisons at all.

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#112 GSC
July 07 2010, 01:02PM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

Yes, one year in last 5 where he was significantly under that number.

Now he needs to go out and put up 50+ for the next couple of years and then from their inflation will bring his contract down to a point where 40ish points will do.

He was only "significantly under" the 65-point plateau one year out of the last five? I'd say it's been the last two years, he was 12 points behind that mark in 08-09 (53 points) and of course last season.

Since he's signed the contract, he's been well below the 65-point mark in both seasons.

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#113 Oil Fever
July 07 2010, 01:04PM
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Archaeologuy wrote:

How about...

Smyth: 8x 20 or more goals with the Oilers

Horcoff: 2x 20 or more goals with the Oilers

Smyth: 4x 30 or more goals

Horcoff: 0x 30 or more goals

Smyth: actual 1st liner while playing in Edmonton

Horcoff: Couldnt stay on the top two lines of the 30th placed club in the NHL last year.

Finally someone who sees the reality of what Horcoff has done as a whole! I really do hope he has a stellar season this year, however, only time will reveal all!!

Go Rebuilt OILERS Go!!

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#114 Dyckster
July 07 2010, 01:04PM
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I am the Liquor wrote:

Nice to see you paint yourself into a corner again. So next year when Horcoff tries to decide between sucking or blowing, we can all look back on this tripe and share a good laugh.

I'm pretty sure Horcoff didn't consciously decide to have a bad year...he just did. There could be some merit to what @rickithebear is saying. Lots of folks on in this thread are suggesting Horcoff wasn't being put in a position best suited to his skillset. Perhaps Renney saw this and made the proper adjustments. Horc made him look like a hero!

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#115 rickithebear
July 07 2010, 01:04PM
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//How can we justify having a third line center!//

Since the lockout the approximate production range for centers: 1st line (1st to 30th) 1.50ppg-.71ppg 2nd line (31st-60th) .71ppg-.47ppg 3rd line (61st -90th) .47ppg-.36ppg

This is consistent year to year. So remember these number when labelling a player by production.

Horcoff: 05-06 .92ppg 06-07 .64ppg 07-08 .94ppg 08-09 .67ppg 09-10 .47ppg

The guy is asked to play the toughest center situation in the league every year and in the last five years he has been upper 1st line production twice. boarder line first line upper second line production 2 years and bottom second line production in his worst year. Though, when you look at last years numbers when Renney is matching instead of Old Time Coach rolling four lines, Horcoff is bottom first line production.

//How can we justify having a third line center!//

You, Pierre Mcguire, and Jason Gregor are so well educated.

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#116 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
July 07 2010, 01:06PM
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Archaeologuy wrote:

Every guy you mentioned is significantly better than Horcoff. Every one of them. They arent very good comparisons at all.

The point had nothing to do with Horcoff, you said good players aren't seeing their cap hits go up, that isn't the case.

I'd bet heavy the cap will be 70+ in 3 years, "2nd line" centers like Kessler and Plekanec are already seeing contracts north of 5 million, when the cap is 70+ you'll most/all of the top 60 centers making 4.5/5+ million meaning production expectations for Horcoff at that point should be much lower.

Brings us back to my original point, he needs to be 50+ (prefferably 60+) for the next couple of years and then inflation will eat away at "the overpay".

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#117 jr_christ
July 07 2010, 01:07PM
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I completely concur with Lowetide in that we need to simply find a role for Horcoff at this point.

I'm sure anyone in their right mind would accept the contract Horcoff signed several seasons ago because, in Horc's eyes, it was a great offer. Nonetheless, that doens't mean that from our eyes it was a great offer.

However, Horc does win draws and has a decent one-timer from the hashmarks. IMO, I think Horc could become an amazing third liner like John Madden. Every great NHL club has something in common... a great 3rd and 4th line to complement talent upfront. I think if we stop pretending that Horc is a first line centre and develop him into a perennial PK / depth player we will continue to progress in the right direction.

At this point, we all know his contract is dismal for the cap. However, he does have a good attitude (from what I've read on here), and shows up to play every game.

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#118 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
July 07 2010, 01:09PM
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GSC wrote:

He was only "significantly under" the 65-point plateau one year out of the last five? I'd say it's been the last two years, he was 12 points behind that mark in 08-09 (53 points) and of course last season.

Since he's signed the contract, he's been well below the 65-point mark in both seasons.

55ish is points cost about 4.5 million dollars, I've already stated this. In other words at that pace he's about a million overpaid, hardly the "disaster" you see people claiming it to be.

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#119 GSC
July 07 2010, 01:10PM
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Archaeologuy wrote:

Every guy you mentioned is significantly better than Horcoff. Every one of them. They arent very good comparisons at all.

Proof of this:

Toews: .86 PPG

Kane: .94 PPG

Backstrom: 1.04 PPG

Plekanec: .64 PPG

Kesler: .53 PPG

Kovalchuk: .96 PPG

Horcoff: .58 PPG

The only comparables here are Kesler and Plekanec, with Kesler being six years younger than Horcoff and Plekanec four years younger.

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#120 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
July 07 2010, 01:12PM
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GSC wrote:

Proof of this:

Toews: .86 PPG

Kane: .94 PPG

Backstrom: 1.04 PPG

Plekanec: .64 PPG

Kesler: .53 PPG

Kovalchuk: .96 PPG

Horcoff: .58 PPG

The only comparables here are Kesler and Plekanec, with Kesler being six years younger than Horcoff and Plekanec four years younger.

And the two guys closest (Kesler/Plekanec) both just signed deal for 5+.

Wow imagine that.

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#121 GSC
July 07 2010, 01:14PM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

55ish is points cost about 4.5 million dollars, I've already stated this. In other words at that pace he's about a million overpaid, hardly the "disaster" you see people claiming it to be.

Olli Jokinen (.64 career PPG, 50 PTS last season and 63 PTS in 08-09, and same age as Horcoff) and his $3 MIL salary begs to differ.

Horcoff is overpaid by more than $1 MIL. Significantly more.

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#122 GSC
July 07 2010, 01:15PM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

And the two guys closest (Kesler/Plekanec) both just signed deal for 5+.

Wow imagine that.

Yes, imagine that since they project to score quite a bit more than Horcoff in their careers. I also notice that you conveniently left out the rest of the players in the comparison. Nothing to say about how wrong you are?

See the Jokinen comparable above.

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#123 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
July 07 2010, 01:18PM
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GSC wrote:

Olli Jokinen (.64 career PPG, 50 PTS last season and 63 PTS in 08-09, and same age as Horcoff) and his $3 MIL salary begs to differ.

Horcoff is overpaid by more than $1 MIL. Significantly more.

Ah, so cherry picking one contract shows a players worth.

Yes, last year he was probably a 2.5 million dollar player, the year before he was a 4.5 million dollar player, the year before that he was a 6.5 million dollar player (all in todays dollars).

Guys aren't static, even the elite see wide swings in their production at times.

I've been stating for over a year that he needs to be 50-55+ point player to make his contract resonable.

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#124 I am the Liquor
July 07 2010, 01:19PM
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Dyckster wrote:

I'm pretty sure Horcoff didn't consciously decide to have a bad year...he just did. There could be some merit to what @rickithebear is saying. Lots of folks on in this thread are suggesting Horcoff wasn't being put in a position best suited to his skillset. Perhaps Renney saw this and made the proper adjustments. Horc made him look like a hero!

Well Rikibear seems to be saying two different things. Either Horcoff is better suited to a third line role, such as the last part of last season, or he is one of the better centers in the league, in which case he would most certainly be a first line center.

You cant have it both ways, but Rikibear aka Oilerbear, is not smarter than the average bear and continually throughout the years has stuck his horcoff sized foot in his mouth in an effort to prostrate himself to the big eared idol.

I think Horcoff was indeed put in a role where he is best suited, when he was moved to the third line in a checking role ala Marchant. Lets hope it stays that way, although I have my doubts.

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#125 GSC
July 07 2010, 01:20PM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

Ah, so cherry picking one contract shows a players worth.

Yes, last year he was probably a 2.5 million dollar player, the year before he was a 4.5 million dollar player, the year before that he was a 6.5 million dollar player (all in todays dollars).

Guys aren't static, even the elite see wide swings in their production at times.

I've been stating for over a year that he needs to be 50-55+ point player to make his contract resonable.

No more of cherry picking than you refusing to speak to the (non)comparisons of Horcoff to Toews, Kane, Backstrom, and Kovalchuk.

In his career, Horcoff is roughly a 48-point player. That's not 1st line material, nor is it $4.5 MIL material.

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#126 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
July 07 2010, 01:20PM
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@GSC

"I also notice that you conveniently left out the rest of the players in the comparison. Nothing to say about how wrong you are"

Here's the catch, I wasn't making a comparison. Arch said that high end players aren't seeing their cap hit increase. I showed guys that are seeing it increase.

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#127 Archaeologuy
July 07 2010, 01:22PM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

And the two guys closest (Kesler/Plekanec) both just signed deal for 5+.

Wow imagine that.

Both of those guys closest to Horc's career numbers are also coming off of career years where they just scored DOUBLE what Horc did last season. Horcoff has never in his career matched what Kesler just did, 25 goals and 75 points.

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#128 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
July 07 2010, 01:22PM
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GSC wrote:

No more of cherry picking than you refusing to speak to the (non)comparisons of Horcoff to Toews, Kane, Backstrom, and Kovalchuk.

In his career, Horcoff is roughly a 48-point player. That's not 1st line material, nor is it $4.5 MIL material.

For the third time, their was no comparison made. That was a counter point to a coment about salary inflation.

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#129 Dyckster
July 07 2010, 01:22PM
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GSC wrote:

Olli Jokinen (.64 career PPG, 50 PTS last season and 63 PTS in 08-09, and same age as Horcoff) and his $3 MIL salary begs to differ.

Horcoff is overpaid by more than $1 MIL. Significantly more.

His points are offset by an apparent sh!tty attitude. Olli is a unique situation. Unless we're basing all of Horcoffs worth on points alone, this probably isn't the best comparison.

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#130 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
July 07 2010, 01:23PM
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@ Arch

Yup, they are coming off years really similar to the year Horc had before signing his contract.

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#131 Dyckster
July 07 2010, 01:25PM
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I am the Liquor wrote:

Well Rikibear seems to be saying two different things. Either Horcoff is better suited to a third line role, such as the last part of last season, or he is one of the better centers in the league, in which case he would most certainly be a first line center.

You cant have it both ways, but Rikibear aka Oilerbear, is not smarter than the average bear and continually throughout the years has stuck his horcoff sized foot in his mouth in an effort to prostrate himself to the big eared idol.

I think Horcoff was indeed put in a role where he is best suited, when he was moved to the third line in a checking role ala Marchant. Lets hope it stays that way, although I have my doubts.

Props for the Yogi The Bear useage.

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#132 Archaeologuy
July 07 2010, 01:25PM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

@ Arch

Yup, they are coming off years really similar to the year Horc had before signing his contract.

The year before he signed his contract he blew out his shoulder and required season ending surgery. So...no, not really similar years.

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#133 GSC
July 07 2010, 01:27PM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

@ Arch

Yup, they are coming off years really similar to the year Horc had before signing his contract.

Why yes they did, and they're also younger and have more offensive upside than Horcoff. They project to continue scoring at that similar rate.

Horcoff? Not so much. He signed his contract coming off of major shoulder surgery. He's already hit his prime, and now the Oilers are stuck with a 3rd liner making the most of any forward.

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#134 Archaeologuy
July 07 2010, 01:30PM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

"I also notice that you conveniently left out the rest of the players in the comparison. Nothing to say about how wrong you are"

Here's the catch, I wasn't making a comparison. Arch said that high end players aren't seeing their cap hit increase. I showed guys that are seeing it increase.

Actually what I said was:

"The Cap hits for good players arent going up. They're going down due to creative contract structures and teams having a lot of Cap already dedicated to other players."

As in guys who used to make 6 milliion arent getting 7 million. Guys who used to make 7 million arent getting 9. There might be one or two guys a year, but we are seeing a lot more uber length front loaded contracts for lower overall Cap-Hit.

Backstrom hit 100+ points and is making 6.7, based on your rule of inflation he should be making at least 7.5 million. It didnt happen.

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#135 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
July 07 2010, 01:32PM
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@ Arch/GSC

So what exactly are you guys points here?

Mine:

- He was overpaid by 2 - 3 million last year.

- If he can get back to the 50 - 55 point range he'll be roughly a million overpaid, which is a number I can live with

- As the cap (and salaries) continue to rise the inflation will (or at least should) eat away at expectations (ie as the 20th highest cap hit center his "fair value production should be around 65 points... but in 4 years when he's the 45th highest cap hit center 40 points would be considerd "fair value)

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#136 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
July 07 2010, 01:35PM
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Archaeologuy wrote:

Actually what I said was:

"The Cap hits for good players arent going up. They're going down due to creative contract structures and teams having a lot of Cap already dedicated to other players."

As in guys who used to make 6 milliion arent getting 7 million. Guys who used to make 7 million arent getting 9. There might be one or two guys a year, but we are seeing a lot more uber length front loaded contracts for lower overall Cap-Hit.

Backstrom hit 100+ points and is making 6.7, based on your rule of inflation he should be making at least 7.5 million. It didnt happen.

Ah, well I read it as good players aren't getting raises.

Either way though, I wasn't comparing Horc to those guys and I'm confident salaries are going to continue to rise over the next 5 years.

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#137 GSC
July 07 2010, 01:36PM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

@ Arch/GSC

So what exactly are you guys points here?

Mine:

- He was overpaid by 2 - 3 million last year.

- If he can get back to the 50 - 55 point range he'll be roughly a million overpaid, which is a number I can live with

- As the cap (and salaries) continue to rise the inflation will (or at least should) eat away at expectations (ie as the 20th highest cap hit center his "fair value production should be around 65 points... but in 4 years when he's the 45th highest cap hit center 40 points would be considerd "fair value)

My point is simple: he's not a 1st line centre (as has been argued ad nauseam by Lowetide and other bloggers) and he's the highest (over)paid Oiler forward who doesn't produce the numbers that are expected of him.

The Oilers are stuck paying $5.5 MIL for a 3rd liner. Pathetic.

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#138 Archaeologuy
July 07 2010, 01:37PM
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@OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F

No more Horcoff salary talk. I didnt bring it up. It's irrelevant.

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#139 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
July 07 2010, 01:39PM
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GSC wrote:

My point is simple: he's not a 1st line centre (as has been argued ad nauseam by Lowetide and other bloggers) and he's the highest (over)paid Oiler forward who doesn't produce the numbers that are expected of him.

The Oilers are stuck paying $5.5 MIL for a 3rd liner. Pathetic.

Theirs never a happy medium. He's not a 1st line center so he has to be a 3rd line center.

What do you think are resonable expections for a 5.5 million dollar player?

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#140 Team Hall
July 07 2010, 01:41PM
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LT, just wanted to say, love your take and writing style. You've paid your dues and you deserve the accolades now. Interesting littel tidbit about the veteran leadership - Souray and Moreau. Horc has always kind of been a one man wolfpack, but I think he used to like Smytty a lot - friendswise. I agree, good player, just not worth the ticket. He will be the best 3rd line C in the biz, mark it.

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#141 GSC
July 07 2010, 01:45PM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

Theirs never a happy medium. He's not a 1st line center so he has to be a 3rd line center.

What do you think are resonable expections for a 5.5 million dollar player?

He's not a 2nd liner to me, he's hit his peak offensively and I doubt he scores anywhere near the rate he should for a player of his salary.

A reasonable expectation would be 60-65 points, a level he hasn't reached in the last two seasons...two seasons since he signed the contract.

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#142 DC
July 07 2010, 01:52PM
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Wow this article started an awesome debate. Love Horcoffs heart, desire, drive, and leadership. Hate Horcoffs offense, salary, shoulders and one-timer. I won't lie I like Shawn Horcoff. He needs to play better though.

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#143 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
July 07 2010, 01:52PM
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@ GCS

I guess we'll see. I'm confident he can put up 50 - 55 next year. I'd be satisfyied with that.

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#144 Ball Buster
July 07 2010, 01:58PM
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Re: Plekanec and Kesler being 4 and 6 yrs younger . . . now they are. Horcoff signed his contract over 2 years ago, when he was 29.

The contract was offered on the basis of his 50 pts in 53 games in 2007-08. Coming off a Stanley Cup run the year before that.

Did Lowe overpay? Absolutely and the term stinks too. Did he overpay to the extent that the Oilers are saddled with a 4th line centre that can't win draws, can't skate and has no chance of ever scoring 10 goals again? Also no. But you read through this entire thread, and the other 5,000 of them scattered all over the Oilgosphere, you get past the two or three original thoughts on the issue and all you are left with is a whole lot of whining. Repetitive whining. The kind that gets most people slapped.

I thought we were all over this and moved on to better things? I thought we had accepted that he is going to be paid the money regardless and he will be with this team to the end of the contract, also regardless? All Lowetide is blogging on is the role of this player going forward. Doesn't matter any more what he gets paid.

I think Daft Punk said it best when they wrote: "It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter." and so on.

Horcoff on you and your family.

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#145 Chris.
July 07 2010, 01:59PM
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Dollars and Boxcars... Dollars and Boxcars... Round and Round we go. The real debate surrounding Horcoff's relative value to the franchise should be more complicated than this.

IMO, Horcoff is exactly the kind of transitional player this roster needs as it moves forward. Despite injury, poor timing, and a horrible overpay: Renny probably feels fortunate that Horcoff is the property of the Edmonton Oilers.

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#146 GSC
July 07 2010, 02:01PM
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Ball Buster wrote:

Re: Plekanec and Kesler being 4 and 6 yrs younger . . . now they are. Horcoff signed his contract over 2 years ago, when he was 29.

The contract was offered on the basis of his 50 pts in 53 games in 2007-08. Coming off a Stanley Cup run the year before that.

Did Lowe overpay? Absolutely and the term stinks too. Did he overpay to the extent that the Oilers are saddled with a 4th line centre that can't win draws, can't skate and has no chance of ever scoring 10 goals again? Also no. But you read through this entire thread, and the other 5,000 of them scattered all over the Oilgosphere, you get past the two or three original thoughts on the issue and all you are left with is a whole lot of whining. Repetitive whining. The kind that gets most people slapped.

I thought we were all over this and moved on to better things? I thought we had accepted that he is going to be paid the money regardless and he will be with this team to the end of the contract, also regardless? All Lowetide is blogging on is the role of this player going forward. Doesn't matter any more what he gets paid.

I think Daft Punk said it best when they wrote: "It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter." and so on.

Horcoff on you and your family.

Someone has to keep the author honest, the same author who proclaimed that Horcoff is a #1 centre when it is quite obviously not the case.

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#147 mike
July 07 2010, 02:03PM
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No doubt he was below contract last year. Maybe his shoulder reduces his value going forward. But some of the valuations are hilarious. I want to be a GM in your league.

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#148 Ball Buster
July 07 2010, 02:04PM
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@GSC

Agreed. I like him as a 3C and promotion to 2C when the need requires but I'm guessing Tom Renney knows better than I.

His salary is no longer relevant at this point though, yes? Sunk cost and all.

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#149 Bandwagon jumper
July 07 2010, 02:07PM
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I think we need to stop expecting Horc to score 50 - 55 pts. He just isn't that player. That is why we have the Halls/Eberles/Paarvi (sp?)

As long as Horc keeps stopping pucks with his face he will have a role. Yes he may be overpaid, but you can't fault him for his heart.

Does Horc still have all his front teeth?

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#150 Ender
July 07 2010, 02:09PM
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@ Arch
150.

;-)

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