Trade Talk
Lowetide
August 20 2010 05:56PM
Peter Adler cut through the doldrums of summer like a hot knife through butter last night. An actual trade rumor involving the Edmonton Oilers. Music!
Adler's article is here. When I read it last night I decided to ignore it, as if looking away would somehow make it come true (watched pot and all that). This morning, I read it again and noticed that Spector's picked it up (adding to the credibility: EJ and Spector's are actual places where you can read things that have a snowball's chance in hell of coming true) which is always a good sign.
Late this afternoon (after a hard day's work--my business picks up this time of year) I allowed myself a look at capgeek to see if "The Who By Numbers" would give me a clue:
- Oilers: Souray (5.4M cap hit times 2); Cogliano (RFA, 1.113M a year ago) TOTAL: 6.513M
- Caps: Fleischmann (2.6M times 1); Nylander (4.875M times 1) TOTAL: 7.475M
Not bad. Not bad at all. Add a pick and we'll take Nylander's wife! Then I'm reminded that those damn Canucks are involved (freaking Canucks, get your own rumor) with Kevin Bieksa:
- Oilers: Souray (5.4M cap hit times 2) Cogliano (RFA, 1.113M a year ago) TOTAL: 6.513M
- Caps: Fleischmann (2.6M times 1); Nylander (4.875M times 1), 2nd rd pick TOTAL: 7.475M
- Canucks: Bieksa (3.75M times 1) TOTAL: 3.75M
Oilers get Bieksa and Nylander (plus 2nd for taking Nylander family), Canucks get Fleischmann, Caps get Souray and Cogliano.
OILER BENEFITS: Offload the Fonz (as named by Bob Stauffer earlier today) and get back an NHL calibre defenseman with one year left on his contract. Also receive Nylander, for which a nice draft pick should be included. More free dollars next summer, but Mr. Katz won't be able to rotate the tires on the Batmobile this winter.
CANUCKS BENEFITS: Make room for Willie Mitchell by sending away Bieksa (they'll need to IR Salo and make sure his household receives everything Ron Popiel ever offered) and get back a nice piece up front. More moves to come, but it makes Vancouver better overall and they do save $1.15M on this deal.
CAPS BENEFIT: Offload Nylander ("getting rid of the Albatross, sowing the seeds of discontent!") and Fleischmann for a nice tough defenseman with a leather jacket and maybe someone who can help up front in Cogliano. They also save some money (about 1M) depending on how much Andrew C. wants for his next contract.
Possible? Probably not. A nice dream? You bet.
three-ways very rarely ever happen no matter how much you might want them ... lol
Sheldon Souray's comments would have had him fired for insubordination in almost any other profession.
He's a defensive & organization liability.
When you're having a movement don't stop halfway.
Do not let him wear the jersey again.
I like it.
I've always had a healthy respect for Bieksa, and in this deal he fills Sourays role on the back end well with the added bonus of being a right handed shot (can play off of Whitney or Smid).
Getting Nylanders dead contract is cool with me too, I don't expect us to be loading up for a cup run this year. Losing Cogliano without any futures coming back kinda sucks, but as long as he's going to Washington it's cool. If he kicks ass as a Cap, it's fun and awesome. If he kicks ass as a Canuck, I break things. Not cheap things either, significant things. Like my friends new iPhone.
Cogs needs out, and the oilers need out of cogs. Bieksa is exactly what we need, puck moving toughness.
@RossCreekNation
~But I really wanted the Oilers to get Nylander~
So you're obviously reading etownhockey.com
Ya, I think I will listen to Peter Adler over Raine Snow any day. I'm pretty sure Adler is connected.
David Staples already confirmed that Adler had a good source on this... they just wouldn't reveal who. But if Staples says Adler has a legit source, that's good enough for me.
If we are dealing with Washington, they have 2 very good third line centers who are STONE COLD KILLER in the face off circle. Steckl and Boyd Gordon, do anything necessary to pry one of those 2 face off studs off their roster.
That tweak makes a good trade a GREAT trade
I like Bieksa a lot and would do this trade to offload Souray. But picking up a third line face off killer..........GRAVY
Can anyone else feel it?
The arenas are busy again...the days are getting shorter and cooler.
Thank you Lord for allowing me one more year of this thing we call hockey season.
Now if only Telus and Bell could pick up Sportsnet One ...
I agree. People are pretty quick to jump down players' throats here.
Souray's an interesting case study of how things work in Oiler-land:
- Souray signs when no one wants to here.. garners respect from probably half the fans here
- Souray gets injured early in that first season and loses respect with almost all the fans
- Souray comes back and has a career year. Suddenly almost (note, almost) everyone is talking about how great he is and how he should be captain
- Souray gets injured again the last year and some more fans jump off the bandwagon... but still some are talking about how this guy should be our captain
- Rumor comes out that Souray asked for a trade... most fans don't believe it. Most are defending Souray saying its a big mistake to trade him
- Season ends, and Souray breaks the news himself.. suddenly fans are in uproar, his contract is an albatross, he's a horrible player, and no one would want the guy because he has nothing to offer.
Not saying I don't agree with some of what is said (nor am I saying that all fans fit into the picture I painted above), but it's just funny how opinions change so quickly and dramatically here.
Washington doesn't gain any cap space by dealing Nylander... he DOESN'T count against their cap. Therefore, if they are going to add much salary, they need to dump somebody else that actually creates them some cap space.
If its just a matter of them saying "here, you pay this guy to F off insted of us" then sure - BUT either way Nylander isn't going to count against either teams salary cap (unless he's actually playing for them).
To add Sheldon Souray, they'd likely want to dump a bigger cap hit than just Fleischman (not to mention get more than just Souray). Nylander doesn't accomplish this.
Hemksy is not allowed to sign an extension before the end of this season....so there's no chance he will sign an extension by january of this season as per CBA rules.
And how is it Semin would be a welcome change here? He becomes UFA one season before Hemsky...what would you do if he didn't sign an extension? Funny, you want to get rid of Hemsky who has 2 yrs left on his contract but you want to get Semin who would more than likely walk after this season...So you'd trade Hemsky, Souray and Cogliano and after this season be left with Fleischmann and some later round picks?
Seriously?
SOWING the seeds.
What a stupid language we have.
Well, anything to ditch Souray by the start of training camp is a good thing.
If we get a real center and a decent dman to boot. It's like winning the lotto again ... lol
Fricking Johnny Rotten. Last time I quote him.
That would be a fun trade! Which is why I am very skeptical that something like this goes down.
Well, you always get a free pass if you quote Johnny Rotten.
God save the sex pistols they're a bunch of wholesome blokes They just like wearing filthy clothes and swapping filthy jokes
I am not sure about putting Bieksa in the mix but I actually posed a very similar trade idea (Nylander/Souray/Cogs etc.)to Brownlee and Gregor a while back to see what kind of response I would get. If they could do this type of a deal with the Caps then I say go for it!
One response I did get pointed out that while the cap hit on Nylander is 4.875m, his actual salary is only 3m, compared to Souray's cap at 5.4m and salary at 4.5m. I am not sure the Caps would take on an extra 1.5m in salary and give us Fleischmann but with Cogs thrown into the mix it could happen.
*Crosses fingers, says a prayer and hopes Souray is gone before traing camp begins*
I really don't want to give up Cogliano as a part of this package. I'd rather add a later pick or a lower end prospect like Chorney. Washington probably wouldn't bite though =/
I'd do it, from the Oilers standpoint and the Caps standpoint. I question it from the Canucks standpoint though. Damn, would I love that deal to go down though. Although I have no desire to see Nylander here. I'd hope that they would just waive him to be honest. I let bygones be bygones with Comrie, but not so sure I could with Nylander (and wife)! But even if we were to just dump Nylander for nothing in some way (waived, demoted, traded for peanuts - which wouldn't be possible, but just sayin'), that's still a good deal for us. Bieksa for Souray+Cogliano... sure, I'd do that.
The problem is, Washington doesn't HAVE to get rid of Nylander... he doesn't currently count towards their cap.
So in fact, by moving Nylander and picking up Souray, the Caps would actually be taking on Souray's $5.4M without subtracting any dollars from Nylander.
Take Nylander out of the equation in favour of another contract that actually counts against their cap (Jason Chimera - 1.875M?), and things suddenly make more sense... at least imo.
whether we ended up with Fleishmann or Bieksa, i would just like to see Souray gone! and if Cogs goes too, oh well, we really don't need him anyway. hey, we could re-sign Mr. Hillary Duff if Cogs were moved!!! :)
Why wouldn't Washington trade for Kaberle?
More skill, reasonable price, and not a band aid. Fleishmann could be that "top 6" guy Burke's been holding out for, and both are UFA next summer.
Don't get me wrong I'm in favour of any trade shipping Sheldon Souray out.
~He really wants to be here to~
Because Burke's demands are pretty ridiculous. I'm sure they'd want him, but they probably haven't put together a deal that the Wizard of Oz liked for ~the best player on the planet~.
@Pilgor09
is Dany Heatley on the trading block? I seem to remember his name involved in some kind of Oiler related news...
According to another site regarding this rumour, this was just speculation by a journalist from the globe and mail. Adler then picked it up from his comments.
There was never anything that came directly from someone who is connected; so this rumour has no legs.
STECKEL!!!
But really, it will be interesting to see how this plays out, supposedly Willie Mitchell is on the cusp of deciding where he is going to sign, and word is both Washington and Vancouver are in the running, yet Vancouver would pretty much have to trade Bieksa to make bringing back Mitchell feasible. So if Mitchell ends up signing with Washington I guess it would take them out of any trade talks at all?
It's all a potential love triangle that makes my head hurt.
I would not like this trade from an Oilers perspective. We take more salary than we give, and we only get 1 useful player back. Cogliano's value is greatly undervalued in this proposal, I say this because TSN was reporting that we offered Cogliano for the 15th overall but pulled out when McIlrath was taken prior. If Cogliano's value = 15th overall, then would anybody deal Souray + 1st for Bieksa, Nylander, 2nd? I don't think so.
Count me in for Steckel as well ;) If they'd move him.
P.S. don't I know you from somewhere? :P
Brownlee was pushing the Steckel thing last summer, I laughed...
Sorry Nate
You laughed because it was Steckl? you laughed because it was Brownlee's idea? or because you had a better idea on a defensively sound penalty killing face off winning center?
HAHAHAHHA
Those are my props!
Living in BC and having the Canucks as the main sorce of hockey watching...Bieksa is a bad penalty nightmare. He would pick up where thecaptainethanmoreau left off.
No Thanks!
But do we really need to see the Oil lost to Anahiem 7 to 2 for the entire summer? We all need to be punished but c'mon enough is enough.
It's kinda like that wound that you keep bumping that never heals
Read some where that Cogs and a goalie to the Islanders for Anders Nilsson, Dylan Reese and Kirill Petrov , who would then be sent to Washington along with Souray for Fleishmann and a 2nd round. Three way?
The Fonz for Fleischmann and a prospect ...
hurry hard! no way Nylander comes here!
no need 4 him
Nylander was buried in Jokerit for the last season and a bit. He is now a has been geting paid 3 million dollars this season to stay away from the Washington Capitals. Thats gotta be sticking in thier craw just a little. Would Nylander come here if his contract was raded. I don't think so. Do we want a guy who can't keep his word. Think not. If a trade for Washington were to occur I think it would involve more than just Souray or Cogliano. I think the Capitals would be looking at moving Semin and Flieshman along with a pick or two.For Souray, Cogliano and Hemsky. I think Hemsky is done here. If he doesn't sign an extension by January he'll be on the block come trade deadline day. Semin would welcome a change of scenery and after last years dismal playoff performance the Capitals may be inclined to move him sooner rather than later. Plus bieng playing 3rd fiddle on that team behind Ovie and Backstrom is incentive for him to come to Edmonton to be top dog.Just my opinion.
J.Thornton on the block yet ?
Washington would love to get rid of Semin. Apparently he's a big PITA.
Sheldon Souray announced on Sportsnet today that he still expects the Oilers to trade him before the season begins and that they have not reached out to him to mend fences. The arrogance of this guy is sickening.
I think the problem is that some teams have better management people than in the past (Snow in NYI, Maloney in PHX) and the obvious dummies (Sather) are still hunting for bigger names.
Souray is not an attractive option for lots of reasons aside from his comments about the organization last season. He is signed to a rich contract, he is injury prone and he is in the age range where veteran defensemen start sliding downhill quickly.
He might sit. Based on the comments at sportsnet that would be my guess. Oilers ask him to stay away from camp, the organization waits until another team has an injury and then they pull the trigger.
I don't know if that is wise or unwise, just the way I think it'll roll out.
regarding Nylander, wouldn't we just be taking the contract off of Washington's hands? i doubt he would ever be invited to the Oilers camp, or ever play one second here.
@Lowetide
LT: I agree with your assessment of the Souray situation with one addition. I think they'll put him through waivers and then ask him not to report to the Baron's. One thing for sure, he doesn't see the inside of an Oiler dressing room again.
What can be going on in his head? Has all the media attention portraying him as some sort of sex symbol affected his view of what he actually does for a living?
Crackenbury: I think Souray (like a lot of players) is unaware of the new world that the cba has made. ALL teams have wonky contracts, so trading for one means that a team will have to take on another problem.
Added to his injury difficulties is that he broke the code, went public and was critical of management. As a fan I loved it, because it makes it more difficult to convince people that the reason people won't come here (EDM) is the arena or the city.
However, it certainly cost the Oilers in the PR department and the organization may feel it cost them actual negotiating traction in the arena squabble.
If they do indeed feel that way, I suspect Souray is heading to a hockey dungeon (Islanders, Thrashers).
It's worth taking a self-important overpaid locker room problem plus Bieksa in exchange for a self-important overpaid locker room problem and Cogs.
We save a few bucks and send Fonzie away. We have a lot of young guys who have caught up to Cogs, or are getting close enough to challenge for his job anyway.
Nothing arrogant about stating what he says the Oilers appear to be doing with him . He merely stated he feels or it appears that the Oilers intend to be dealing him before season starts because they have not made any attempt to come to him to patch anything up . Thats all he said . Let's not overreact/ overassume anything more than that . Only thing i derived from quote is Oilers might not be interested in him .
@madjam
You seem to have forgotten last springs comments from Souray. You don't roast your teams management in public for any reason while still being paid by them. Souray was already untradeable before then, he just made it worse if that's possible. The crap he was spewing about being forced to play was ridiculous.