What's Taking So Long?

Lowetide
August 09 2010 05:37AM

Early summer has given way to mid-summer, and the truth is that a long walk these days will reveal a few leaves beginning to turn. We're reaching a point where the unsigned restricted free agents should be getting signed. Unless. Unless there's a problem.

The Edmonton Oilers have three restricted free agents who remain unsigned: Sam Gagner, Andrew Cogliano and Liam Reddox. According to capgeek, the first two are among 5 rfa's making one million or more who remain unsigned. In recent days we've heard both Gagner and Cogliano express that they're eager to sign and get to training camp. Cogliano added that he is confident that he'll return to the Oilers (if trade rumors had value he'd be Gretzky).

The other 3 rfa's among the top 5 (Carey Price, Bobby Ryan, Peter Mueller) and Martin Hanzal (6th on the list) are all what we could consider important parts on their respective team machines. Its still early, but not that early. If this week slides into next and Gagner and Cogliano remain unsigned then I think it is fair to assume that money (or something else) is in play. Gagner and Cogliano are important players to the Edmonton Oilers, and getting them signed in the next couple of weeks is job one.

As a long time Edmonton Oiler fan, I've learned to be cautious in regard to contracts. It can get ugly in a hurry. Paul Coffey taught us that much.

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Lowetide has been one of the Oilogosphere's shining lights for over a century. You can check him out here at OilersNation and at lowetide.ca. He is also the host of Lowdown with Lowetide weekday mornings 10-noon on TSN 1260.
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#1 book¡e
August 09 2010, 11:59AM
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Tapdog wrote:

No waivers, Gerber signed a two way deal so I do not believe that we would have to waive him.

YES - he would have to clear waivers on the way down. 1 way, 2 way or even 3 way's have nothing to do with it. There is a formula in the CBA determining if someone is exempt from waivers. Its complext for younger players, but simple for players over 25 years old - if you have been in the league for more than 1 year, you have to clear waivers if you are sent down.

Re-Entry Waivers - NO, he does not have to clear. Normally any player with an AHL salary of $105,000+ has to clear re-entry. However, because he did not play 40 games in the NHL last year, he is free from re-entry waivers this year.

Waivers - YES

Re-Entry Waivers - NO

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#2 oilers2k11
August 09 2010, 05:49AM
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Think I might be that guy who's comment is before the rest of the people who leave comments..

Now lets read this article...

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#3 Renegade
August 09 2010, 06:38AM
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I am not concerned because Gagner and Cogliano can't go anywhere, so there was no hurry to talk to them from Tambellini's perspective. Its called prioritizing tasks, and since both players can't file for arbitration signing them was probably down his list of tasks that needed to be done.

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#4 Grumpy OM
August 09 2010, 12:32PM
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I agree with all you guys that think Cogs & Gags are important parts of the team. Tambi has to sign them , but the term and money has to be right for the OILERS going forward. Tambi seems to have taken the bull buy the horns and made all the right moves so far. The idea of all these young guys together excites me, as I think it has excited all Oiler fans. They may not win a lot this season but the drive should be there, and they should be fun to watch. Most of all, as Oiler fans , we are going to have to be patient and cut these kids a little slack.

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#5 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
August 09 2010, 12:41PM
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HardBoiledOil wrote:

but at the same time let's not overvalue Hanzal. yes he a large guy who does many things well, but not much of a point producer. Cogs, despite his size, has scored 18 goals twice, Hanzal 11 goals twice. i don't believe Cogs and a "lot" more are required to get Hanzal, maybe nothing more than a 2nd or 3rd round pick thrown in.....maybe?

He's the type of guy, in the current situation where theirs no reason to move him unless you blow their socks off.

Unless they're having trouble coming to terms on an extension, it would take alot more then Cogs to get him

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#6 oilers2k11
August 09 2010, 05:54AM
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Ok, done..

Here's what I think, I think if S.Gagner is asking for anything more than 2.5 per year for two years he's a little over his head, as for Cogliano I say 2.0 Million Max, even that's a stretch..I'd give him one year. Who knows why it's taking this long, but it is still early August, I would start getting worried/pissed off if they aren't signed by Aug.20.

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#7 Ambassador humantorch
August 09 2010, 06:03AM
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It's OK. I'm sure Tambellini is still assessing the situation.

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#8 sizedoesmatter
August 09 2010, 06:12AM
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I am confidant that both will be signed and liam too.I am also confidant that this is the year that cogliano scores 25 and adds thirty helpers.

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#9 SurfacetoAirMissile
August 09 2010, 06:19AM
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Just "get-er-done" please!

Impatient Oiler Fan

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#10 EasyOil
August 09 2010, 06:38AM
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Is there a date they have to be signed by? I see Gagner signing at around the $2m mark, Cogliano shouldn't be any more than $1.5m. I'm a huge fan of both these players, and have the utmost belief that both can be impact players, but whilst they've both had success through their entry-level contracts, they surely can't have much to point to if they're asking for any more than I stated above... Cogliano especially.

Both are players with something to prove, along with pretty much the entire team, and I don't care how the team does results-wise next year - I just want to see some fire in the team...

Play like they know're capable of, fight to prove to the city that they're worthy of wearing that crest, and earn their place in the City of Champions.

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#11 hoil
August 09 2010, 06:50AM
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We still have Reddox?

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#12 @NateInVegas
August 09 2010, 06:57AM
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The hold up is Tambellini.

The majority of his signings have been safe and straight forward, these two require some assessing on his part.

Gagner 2 years @ 2.35 Cogliano1@ 1.95

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#13 Dave Z
August 09 2010, 07:31AM
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The Oilers need a big, young centerman so maybe Tambellini is taking time because he is looking around to see if he can land a bigger centerman for Gagner and/or Cogliano. Maybe someone like Jeff Carter could be a possiblity. Oilers have plenty of smaller forwards so this line of thinking could have some merit.

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#14 madjam
August 09 2010, 08:20AM
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A lot of RFA's with talent yet unsigned like Neal , Hornquist, etc.. Does not look like most teams expect to lose any by way of offer sheets . Doesn't seem to be a rush to sign a lot of RFA's . Only question is, is Gagner and/ or Cogliano part n parcel of toxic problem referred to at end of year ?

I was beginning to wonder if either Gags and/or Cogs wanted to remain here being as neither has signed as yet . Do the Oilers want them , or want to trade them ?

Good timing on article by the way, as i was wondering the same thing . Not to many GM's want to get invovled in an RFA market to begin with !

Would either Gags or Cogs play out RFA status going into the season if contract offer not to their liking ?

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#15 HardBoiledOil
August 09 2010, 08:22AM
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i'm guessing Sam might be asking for too much and too many years. that could be the holdup. i'd like to see him come back. Cogs i think the Oiler brass are still trying to figure out what they want to do with him before signing him. my opinion.

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#16 oilfan73
August 09 2010, 08:33AM
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maybe waiting for an outside offer to come on the table. What if that said team may have something the Oilers want? Could we possibly see a sign and trade? That is a slim possibility. We still have one hole to fill and signing these two guys straight up is not the answer. I think ST will wait as long as possible to try and work out some kind of deal here for a 1C.

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#17 Cervantes
August 09 2010, 08:36AM
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@lowetide I'm trying to figure out Gerbers waivers status... can you help? 35 years old, but only played 226 NHL games. Does he have to pass through waivers to go to OKC, or is he exempt?

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#18 John
August 09 2010, 09:00AM
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With respect to the previous commentators, but I'm not sure how or why people are calling for Gagner to be making $2M-$2.5M per? I'm not in disagreement with the number per se, but where's the team equivalencies?

Gilbert's making $4M, so's Whitney. Hall comes with a cap-hit of $3.75M. I'm not saying Gagner's worth more than $2.5M today, but why not sign him to a Hemsky-like deal over six years? Overpay him now to save money later, no? Is he not part of the long term plan for the Oil? Why not $3.5M-$4M average? Makes sense to me that management would be looking at securing some of the key pieces to the rebuild in reasonable contracts. Is the above suggestion unreasonable?

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#19 Crackenbury
August 09 2010, 09:02AM
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Call me in two weeks. If still unsigned, then there is something going on. Until then, it's just summertime and setting priorities.

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#20 madjam
August 09 2010, 09:03AM
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RFA marketplace a transitional semi-open market for players and GM's alike . Still allows management to keep players at generally "house discount " prices , while allowing players some faster track towards UFA status if they choose otherwise .

Being as Gags and Cogs value may go up markedly this year, being their 4th year, they may be reluctant to sign a long term deal until they see how this season goes .

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#21 The Duke of Hafford
August 09 2010, 09:36AM
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Would the Oilers have any interest in Martin Hanzal? Maybe some kind of swap for Cogliano. Hanzal is a big and has a good two-way game. He might be that third line centre that we require.

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#22 Tapdog
August 09 2010, 09:42AM
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Cervantes wrote:

@lowetide I'm trying to figure out Gerbers waivers status... can you help? 35 years old, but only played 226 NHL games. Does he have to pass through waivers to go to OKC, or is he exempt?

No waivers, Gerber signed a two way deal so I do not believe that we would have to waive him.

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#23 Tapdog
August 09 2010, 09:50AM
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@NateInVegas wrote:

The hold up is Tambellini.

The majority of his signings have been safe and straight forward, these two require some assessing on his part.

Gagner 2 years @ 2.35 Cogliano1@ 1.95

My question is Cogs worth more than Brule? With Brule's cap hit sitting at 1.85, I see no reason to have Cogs sitting higher. What does he add to the Oil over that of Brule.

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#24 Ducey
August 09 2010, 10:01AM
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They likely have Gagner lined up for a year but are trying to figure out a multi-year deal. Figuring out what he should get over the next few years would be complicated - the expectations are there but the box cars have stagnated.

With Cogs, based on last year's 28 points in 82 games he should be well below Brule's $1.85 Million (Brule had 37 pts in 65 G) but Cogs did get 38 and 45 pts in his previous years. A dispute over which player the Oil will get next year is likely the cause of the holdup. I would think he would sign a one year for $1.5 M or so.

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#25 Tha Legion
August 09 2010, 10:08AM
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Reddox is inked!!!

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#26 HardBoiledOil
August 09 2010, 10:23AM
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@John.....i like the idea of signing Gagner to a long term deal, though what if he turns out to be another Nilsson? i doubt it, he has more "jam" as MacT puts it, than Nilsson will ever have, but what if? then we get stuck with another mediocre player signed long term.

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#27 madjam
August 09 2010, 10:32AM
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John wrote:

With respect to the previous commentators, but I'm not sure how or why people are calling for Gagner to be making $2M-$2.5M per? I'm not in disagreement with the number per se, but where's the team equivalencies?

Gilbert's making $4M, so's Whitney. Hall comes with a cap-hit of $3.75M. I'm not saying Gagner's worth more than $2.5M today, but why not sign him to a Hemsky-like deal over six years? Overpay him now to save money later, no? Is he not part of the long term plan for the Oil? Why not $3.5M-$4M average? Makes sense to me that management would be looking at securing some of the key pieces to the rebuild in reasonable contracts. Is the above suggestion unreasonable?

Only Hemsky in reality turned out lately in long term deal to our advantage . You might be too risky offering that kind of long term money for a player not playing up to that figure as yet .

Does not appear Oilers would want to offer that type of money or contract to a player getting maybe only 40-50 points a season ? Thats a pretty hard cap hit or buyout if he does not pan out.

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#28 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
August 09 2010, 10:36AM
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Tapdog wrote:

My question is Cogs worth more than Brule? With Brule's cap hit sitting at 1.85, I see no reason to have Cogs sitting higher. What does he add to the Oil over that of Brule.

"What does he add to the Oil over that of Brule"

More then one decent year.

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#29 TigerUnderGlass
August 09 2010, 10:49AM
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Tapdog wrote:

No waivers, Gerber signed a two way deal so I do not believe that we would have to waive him.

The fact that his contract is a two way deal has nothing to do with waiver eligibility. It refers only to how he gets paid. I don't understand why this is so hard for so many people to grasp.

Frankly I don't know without looking at the CBA if he is waiver eligible or not because I have no idea what all the exceptions are, but I know it has nothing to do with it being a two way contract.

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#30 OilerPunch
August 09 2010, 10:52AM
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@OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F

Tambo must have read your post this morning LT as he signed Liam Reddox!

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#31 John
August 09 2010, 10:55AM
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@madjam

@madjam "Only Hemsky in reality turned out lately in long term deal to our advantage."

You don't think Penner fits in the category of deals to the Oilers' advantage? I do.

$3.5M-$4M isn't an overpayment for a solid 2nd line center in the league is it? If that's as good as Gagner gets, I don't think it's a contract that would haunt the Oilers. If he ends up playing with serious line mates (Hall, Penner, MPS, Eberle, Hemsky) on 1st line minutes and 1st line PP, I see a player quite capable of hitting 70-80 points consistently after the next couple development years pass.

The question as I see it is: do the Oilers give him 2 years at today's value only to have to pay him big money after, or do they get him locked up long term for reasonable money?

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#32 David S
August 09 2010, 10:58AM
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oilers2k11 wrote:

Think I might be that guy who's comment is before the rest of the people who leave comments..

Now lets read this article...

Yes indeed. You are "that guy". Heh heh.

That's some seriously professional fisting.

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#33 ubermiguel
August 09 2010, 11:11AM
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So Reddox is signed: http://www.edmontonjournal.com/sports/Edmonton+Oilers+sign+Reddox/3377099/story.html

I assume it's a 1-way deal. What's the roster looking like now? I recall a lot of forwards. Maybe we're going to see some of the rookies spend substantial time in the minors?

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#34 Ducey
August 09 2010, 11:12AM
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Capgeek puts Reddox's salary at $92,000 in the AHL and $550,000 in the NHL

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#35 ubermiguel
August 09 2010, 11:17AM
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Ducey wrote:

Capgeek puts Reddox's salary at $92,000 in the AHL and $550,000 in the NHL

Thanks. Not a terrible guy to call up in case of injuries. Doubt he makes the big club at the start of the year though.

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#36 Woogie
August 09 2010, 11:25AM
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John wrote:

With respect to the previous commentators, but I'm not sure how or why people are calling for Gagner to be making $2M-$2.5M per? I'm not in disagreement with the number per se, but where's the team equivalencies?

Gilbert's making $4M, so's Whitney. Hall comes with a cap-hit of $3.75M. I'm not saying Gagner's worth more than $2.5M today, but why not sign him to a Hemsky-like deal over six years? Overpay him now to save money later, no? Is he not part of the long term plan for the Oil? Why not $3.5M-$4M average? Makes sense to me that management would be looking at securing some of the key pieces to the rebuild in reasonable contracts. Is the above suggestion unreasonable?

HOW THE F$%#$^%@#$# is Hall's cap hit 3.75 mill?

I didn't believe you at first so I checked it and yup it's 3.75. So if you have potential bonuses you need to include that into the cap?

Man that's a steap cap hit for someone who has not even scored in a single point in any pro league in the world.

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#37 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
August 09 2010, 11:47AM
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Woogie wrote:

HOW THE F$%#$^%@#$# is Hall's cap hit 3.75 mill?

I didn't believe you at first so I checked it and yup it's 3.75. So if you have potential bonuses you need to include that into the cap?

Man that's a steap cap hit for someone who has not even scored in a single point in any pro league in the world.

Rookie max, league-set.

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#38 Crash
August 09 2010, 12:12PM
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John wrote:

@madjam "Only Hemsky in reality turned out lately in long term deal to our advantage."

You don't think Penner fits in the category of deals to the Oilers' advantage? I do.

$3.5M-$4M isn't an overpayment for a solid 2nd line center in the league is it? If that's as good as Gagner gets, I don't think it's a contract that would haunt the Oilers. If he ends up playing with serious line mates (Hall, Penner, MPS, Eberle, Hemsky) on 1st line minutes and 1st line PP, I see a player quite capable of hitting 70-80 points consistently after the next couple development years pass.

The question as I see it is: do the Oilers give him 2 years at today's value only to have to pay him big money after, or do they get him locked up long term for reasonable money?

This is an excellent point and is likely the reason talks will take longer...

They may be negotiating on a longer term which will in essence take longer.

I see Gagner much the same way you do as a point producer given the linemates and ice time to do it.

I'd like to see them pay him a bit more for a longer term so that 3 yrs from now everyone will be talking about how great of a value he is similar t5 Hemsky.

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#39 Dave
August 09 2010, 12:17PM
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Gino & I must be the only Pisani fans left.

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#40 SurfacetoAirMissile
August 09 2010, 12:23PM
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@Woogie

The Oilers are in a situation where the Cap Hit does not really matter because they are not going to be at or near the cap while they are "Rebuilding". If Hall does not perform well, he will not get his bonuses and if he does play exceptional he will earn the money so your point doesn't matter in the Oilers case.

However, it certainly matters for a Team like Boston who inked Seguin to the same deal as Hall. They are over the cap with Seguin in their lineup so I would agree with you: "Man that's a steap cap hit for someone who has not even scored in a single point in any pro league in the world."

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#41 RossCreekNation
August 09 2010, 12:27PM
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The Duke of Hafford wrote:

Would the Oilers have any interest in Martin Hanzal? Maybe some kind of swap for Cogliano. Hanzal is a big and has a good two-way game. He might be that third line centre that we require.

Gonna take A LOT more than Cogliano to land Martin Hanzal. I can't see PHX moving him unless someone blows their socks off.

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#42 HardBoiledOil
August 09 2010, 12:30PM
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Dave wrote:

Gino & I must be the only Pisani fans left.

i'm not a fan of his anymore either and hope they don't re-sign him. so you two may very well be the only fans left!

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#43 RossCreekNation
August 09 2010, 12:31PM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

Rookie max, league-set.

:)

... and slowly people are starting to realize (not that its a bad cap hit - roughly same as Stamkos, Tavares, etc.) But its still funny to read people's reactions when they find out.

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#44 HardBoiledOil
August 09 2010, 12:36PM
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RossCreekNation wrote:

Gonna take A LOT more than Cogliano to land Martin Hanzal. I can't see PHX moving him unless someone blows their socks off.

but at the same time let's not overvalue Hanzal. yes he a large guy who does many things well, but not much of a point producer. Cogs, despite his size, has scored 18 goals twice, Hanzal 11 goals twice. i don't believe Cogs and a "lot" more are required to get Hanzal, maybe nothing more than a 2nd or 3rd round pick thrown in.....maybe?

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#45 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
August 09 2010, 12:40PM
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Grumpy OM wrote:

I agree with all you guys that think Cogs & Gags are important parts of the team. Tambi has to sign them , but the term and money has to be right for the OILERS going forward. Tambi seems to have taken the bull buy the horns and made all the right moves so far. The idea of all these young guys together excites me, as I think it has excited all Oiler fans. They may not win a lot this season but the drive should be there, and they should be fun to watch. Most of all, as Oiler fans , we are going to have to be patient and cut these kids a little slack.

"we are going to have to be patient and cut these kids a little slack."

Given the precedence already set, they have three years to hit solid first line status before the wolves start coming out.

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#46 RossCreekNation
August 09 2010, 12:42PM
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book¡e wrote:

YES - he would have to clear waivers on the way down. 1 way, 2 way or even 3 way's have nothing to do with it. There is a formula in the CBA determining if someone is exempt from waivers. Its complext for younger players, but simple for players over 25 years old - if you have been in the league for more than 1 year, you have to clear waivers if you are sent down.

Re-Entry Waivers - NO, he does not have to clear. Normally any player with an AHL salary of $105,000+ has to clear re-entry. However, because he did not play 40 games in the NHL last year, he is free from re-entry waivers this year.

Waivers - YES

Re-Entry Waivers - NO

Good job. I'll add...

The way I understand it (and that could be wrong), is that Gerber would have to clear waivers before the start of the season (if they're sending him down), and that if he clears once, he doesn't have to clear again all season (unless he exceeds X amount of NHL games played)... meaning he's the yo-yo that's going up & down in the event of injuries.

a) I don't know what the X amount of games are, particularly for a goalie, and b) the Flames had a similar situation with Jamie Lundmark last season - he cleared at the start, they brought him up & down throughout the season without him having to clear waivers up until he played X amount of games, then he had to clear waivers on the way down, at which time the Leafs claimed him.

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#47 DC
August 09 2010, 01:17PM
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With Reddox done, Tambs has to lock up Gagner aka My vote for C13. Has to get it done.

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#48 Knobby
August 09 2010, 01:25PM
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I would have preferred the Oil signed a Raffi Torres, Owne Nolan or some other reliable every-day vet to shepherd these young guys along. Reddox... I just don't get the point of signing him.

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#49 HardBoiledOil
August 09 2010, 01:31PM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

He's the type of guy, in the current situation where theirs no reason to move him unless you blow their socks off.

Unless they're having trouble coming to terms on an extension, it would take alot more then Cogs to get him

then i don't want the Oilers to pay that much for Hanzal. i've seen this before....there's a fairly good player we need who could be available, so let's way overpay for him so we can get him. well i say no! that's a bad habit to get into, so perhaps there are other options out there?

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#50 David S
August 09 2010, 02:14PM
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Knobby wrote:

I would have preferred the Oil signed a Raffi Torres, Owne Nolan or some other reliable every-day vet to shepherd these young guys along. Reddox... I just don't get the point of signing him.

Have you seen a Reddox interview? He's Torres 2, with the crazy eyes and everything.

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