He'll be Fine

Lowetide
November 05 2011 09:29AM

A few years ago, one of my kids asked me a question that floored me and pointed out a truth about all of us--we worry too much about things we shouldn't worry about at all. The child--who will remain nameless to protect their identity and further embarrassment as I've told the story many times--said "Dad, everyone is getting married. Is there going to be anyone left for me?"

Well, yes. Don't worry.

I think it's pretty much the same thing worrying about Paajarvi's scoreless streak to start the season. History tells us that there will be someone for you when it's time, and that Magnum PS will see his numbers align with historical totals. Honest.

A year ago, Paajarvi averaged 13 and a half minutes per game at 5x5 even strength and scored 1.36 points-per-60 minutes of playing time. This year, he's averaging just over 11 minutes a night at even strength and has zero points.

Question: How many points at even strength would Paajarvi require to reach last year's scoring total of 1.36? Answer: three. Three points would have Paajarvi at 1.34/60 for this season based on his current time on ice.

It's random, it's luck, it's lack of chances leading to a crisis of confidence, it's playing with less talented teammates, it's being in the wrong place at the right time (Corey Potter scored a goalmouth goal the other night--that could/should have been Paajarvi when he's going).

Last season, Magnus Paajarvi posted a nice year in a secondary role. He didn't get the push Hall/Eberle did, and that's cool those guys were #1 overall and a year older. This season, the lineup has established chemistry in ways that see the young Swede on the outside looking in.

Three points. 3.

Perhaps tonight, a puck will hit his skate and find twine, or a shot from the point will go off his butt and into the net. No matter, it'll happen at some point and he'll begin to see those numbers fall in line.

Magnus Paajarvi has the confidence of his coach and is getting at-bats. He forced a penalty by driving to the net the other night, and that chance could have turned into a fluke goal with only a little luck.

WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN?

Players don't develop or establish themselves in a straight line. Magnus Paajarvi may not be Hall or Eberle's offensive equal--I think we have some evidence of that now--but he should be able to score 20 in a season based on his rookie season and provide the Oilers with a quality 2-way winger for any of the top 3 lines.

It's all good, these are just growing pains and the forces of luck, confidence and timing.

--

Nation Radio is on the air at noon today (Team 1260). Your emails are welcome at nationradio@theteam1260 or you can tweet @lowetide_ and tell me what you're thinking. Among the guests scheduled to appear:

  1. Bruce McCurdy from the Cult of Hockey. Bruce has been doing outstanding work at the Cult of Hockey and also has a tremendous memory dating back before expansion. That's a valuable resource, and I'll ask him to break down the reasons for the Oilers early season success.
  2. Thomas Drance from Canucks Army. Thomas will drop by to talk about the Canucks--who are still unable to fire on all pistons--and the early days of the NW division this season. He has some good insights.
  3. Cam Charron from the Nations. He's done some comparison looking at Toronto and Edmonton, and I'd like to know if both teams can keep up this pace. There are some cracks forming--Maple Leafs goaltending and Oilers lack of depth on the blue--and I'll ask Cam to address those things.
  4. Kent Wilson from Flames Nation and the Nations sites. Kent is a terrific source of information, sussing out the real story using underlying numbers and spotting trends ahead of the curve. I'll ask him about the Flames (promise not to giggle), and whether or not he feels the Oilers could be real this season.

I always enjoy doing the show, the best questions come from you. So drop me a line here  or email/tweet me.

C2a6955161684b5e3189319acfa5ebe4
Lowetide has been one of the Oilogosphere's shining lights for over a century. You can check him out here at OilersNation and at lowetide.ca. He is also the host of Lowdown with Lowetide weekday mornings 10-noon on Team 1260.
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#1 geoilersgist
November 05 2011, 09:30AM
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I will be fist to say MPS is alright I have faith in him

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#2 Craig1981
November 05 2011, 09:42AM
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But if waivers wasn't a factor would you prefer him or harikin (excuse my spelling) in the lineup

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#4 Oilers Coffey
November 05 2011, 09:52AM
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MPS is going to be OK, he's going to be at the prom with some hottie, unlike Linus, who's cussing in the basement some where in OKC. I have liked the way MPS is starting to use his speed down the wing. His chances will come and points soon thereafter. MPS & best pal Lander look like they get it and seem to be great team players, they keep plugging and working their butts off, its fun to watch as OILERS fans!!!

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#5 Smokey
November 05 2011, 09:59AM
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Mags is playing fine. You see when he gets on a rush and draws penalties like he did against LA, you realize why you like this guy. I wish the Oil could find a way to get him into the top six and give him 18 mins a night.

Mags does need to get a bit more physical. He needs to learn from Danny Briere and do something questionable to gets some room out there. He needs to pull a Tommy Gilbert and hit something? He needs to spray the goalie once and while and facewash a defender. His temperament and game reminds me of Malkin, but even Geno snaps and the rest of league takes notice. If he would be a bit more physical the offence will come more freely.

I think the Oilers got a gem and their wasting his talent. I'd like to see a Lander, Gagner, MPS line

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#6 a lg dubl dubl
November 05 2011, 10:01AM
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Like Eberle when he wasn't scoring to start the yr off, once the got his 1st one the pucks started to go in for Ebs. Same with MPS all itll take is the 1st one to go in.

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#7 Romulus' Apotheosis
November 05 2011, 10:08AM
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thanks for the "cool your jets" reminder LT.

MP needs a greasy one. He needs to crash the net more and force luck down the throats of the opposition [FLDTTOTO]

Keep seasoning Hartikainan. He's bursting with power and potential, but he's like a pig roast on a spit... you gotta turn and turn and turn that pig... take it off the spit too soon and bam trichinosis!! a parasitic invasion that will make Sean Avery's return to the NHL look like a hangnail (granted a terrible, irritating, hangnail that you can't get rid of because the wife put the nail clippers in some godforsaken place that no reasonable person would think of...)

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#8 TigerUnderGlass
November 05 2011, 10:12AM
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It's funny how people are happy to be patient when MPS isn't scoring but when Omark, who scored at a higher pace than MPS did last year, is similarly cold many of the same people want to run him out of town.

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#9 justDOit
November 05 2011, 10:13AM
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a lg dubl dubl wrote:

Like Eberle when he wasn't scoring to start the yr off, once the got his 1st one the pucks started to go in for Ebs. Same with MPS all itll take is the 1st one to go in.

I don't know about that - his points will come, but he's not playing with two #1 picks.

It would be an interesting experiment to play all the other players with Hall/Nugkins and see how they do, but I'd rather see the W's accumulate.

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#10 justDOit
November 05 2011, 10:15AM
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@Romulus' Apotheosis

LMAO! My kids keep taking my nose hair trimmers! Unless I find them soon, I'm gonna look like Lanny McDonald, but without the facial hair!

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#11 FastOil
November 05 2011, 10:17AM
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Magnus needs a line to call home with some good linemates. Once the roster is more set he'll do better.

With a little more experience a Swede line could be a pretty solid and dangerous third.

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#13 godot10
November 05 2011, 10:24AM
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Re: Paajarvi vs. Hartikainen

Paajarvi already understands the defensive side of the game. He has above average NHL defensive reliability.

Hartikainen is still learning defensive reliability. Hartikainen will need a soft minutes line when he breaks into the NHL, probably for good, next year.

Whereas, one could play Paajarvi now with Horcoff and Smyth against the best lines in the league.

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#14 godot10
November 05 2011, 10:27AM
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Re: Paajarvi vs. Omark

See Paajarvi vs. Hartikainen, and replace Hartikainen with Omark.

Except Hartikainen is 6'1", 210 lbs, and Omark is 5'10", 180 lbs, and the Oilers have too many small players already.

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#15 Chris.
November 05 2011, 10:28AM
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TigerUnderGlass wrote:

It's funny how people are happy to be patient when MPS isn't scoring but when Omark, who scored at a higher pace than MPS did last year, is similarly cold many of the same people want to run him out of town.

Size, speed, youth and draft pedigree. MPS is a better overall gamble and he isn't hurting the Oilers in his own end.

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#16 CrazyCaptain88
November 05 2011, 10:30AM
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Hey LT, off topic here, do you think we Columbus' desperation and Khabby's hot start, we could put a package of Khabby + for Columbus' first pick? I may be way out in left field with this trade idea here, but that pick has the chance to be a very very good player. Not to be Debbie downer here, but who knows if, or how long Khabby will continue to play this well. The only reason I wouldn't want to is that it sends the wrong message to the team about pushing for a playoff spot this year. Thoughts?

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#17 Romulus' Apotheosis
November 05 2011, 10:34AM
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TigerUnderGlass wrote:

It's funny how people are happy to be patient when MPS isn't scoring but when Omark, who scored at a higher pace than MPS did last year, is similarly cold many of the same people want to run him out of town.

I suspect size and youth have a lot to say about MP over Omark. But also, I suspect that Omark has been branded within the organization for too long as a kind of "also ran." I think the organization sort sees him as spare parts with the hope that he uses his ice time to force an issue. Last year he used his time well. But old habits die hard and I think when he failed to put up numbers early this year, he probably fell back into the spare parts category. Gags and now Hemsky coming back don't help him either.

Whether it's justified or not, I suspect the mindset you criticize permeates out of the organization (not merely from the fanbase, or to be even more specific out of Arch). MP is on an altogether different track within the organization. he gets more rope... of course, to use another cliche he may very well hang himself with it.

All that said. Omark has been given opportunity by the organization. Whether other players have been given more (rightly or wrongly we can debate), he's been given his shot. He can only blame himself if his ice time gets cut.

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#18 godot10
November 05 2011, 10:36AM
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CrazyCaptain88 wrote:

Hey LT, off topic here, do you think we Columbus' desperation and Khabby's hot start, we could put a package of Khabby + for Columbus' first pick? I may be way out in left field with this trade idea here, but that pick has the chance to be a very very good player. Not to be Debbie downer here, but who knows if, or how long Khabby will continue to play this well. The only reason I wouldn't want to is that it sends the wrong message to the team about pushing for a playoff spot this year. Thoughts?

The Oilers have reached the stage where wins are more important than extra draft picks. The losing must stop this year. Contending for a playoff spot all year is crucial to the development of the young talent the Oilers already have.

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#19 freeze
November 05 2011, 10:38AM
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I hope Hemsky can get paajarvi going. He should be a great depth player for years to come. That said, I'd probably still trade him to get a top four D man.

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#20 Romulus' Apotheosis
November 05 2011, 10:38AM
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godot10 wrote:

The Oilers have reached the stage where wins are more important than extra draft picks. The losing must stop this year. Contending for a playoff spot all year is crucial to the development of the young talent the Oilers already have.

Hell even QB/Moneypuck seems to have come around and is cheering for wins...

that said... talk is building that this year the draft might be hella deep. It would be nice if we could do both... we do seem to have a deep bench at certain positions right now. getting into the top 6 pics could be huge.

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#21 oilredemption
November 05 2011, 10:39AM
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I think once Paajarvi gets himself a garbage goal they will come in bunches. If not put Hemmer on his right side (when he recovers) and let him make room for the young swede. Paajarvi has the speed and the shot he just needs to get some room to wheel and who better to play with then Hemsky.

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#22 Romulus' Apotheosis
November 05 2011, 10:42AM
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justDOit wrote:

LMAO! My kids keep taking my nose hair trimmers! Unless I find them soon, I'm gonna look like Lanny McDonald, but without the facial hair!

Oh, man Lanny. always makes me think of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9eF6DVI0tk

good luck finding your trimmers!

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#23 TigerUnderGlass
November 05 2011, 10:49AM
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I am not comparing the two players, I'm making a point about Omark. He has much more of a track record for scoring than MPS does but, while every one assumes MPS will start scoring soon, Omark is done in everyone's books.

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#24 Grumpy OM
November 05 2011, 10:55AM
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MPS has been working hard and has played well, his points will come, he is one of those guys that every team needs if they are to be successful. He brings his game every night and if nothing else is leading buy example, although right now there are 21 guys leading by example.

Hey, just wondering , I put in a team for the Nation Draft , where do I find out how I'm doing ?

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#25 justDOit
November 05 2011, 10:58AM
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Romulus' Apotheosis wrote:

I suspect size and youth have a lot to say about MP over Omark. But also, I suspect that Omark has been branded within the organization for too long as a kind of "also ran." I think the organization sort sees him as spare parts with the hope that he uses his ice time to force an issue. Last year he used his time well. But old habits die hard and I think when he failed to put up numbers early this year, he probably fell back into the spare parts category. Gags and now Hemsky coming back don't help him either.

Whether it's justified or not, I suspect the mindset you criticize permeates out of the organization (not merely from the fanbase, or to be even more specific out of Arch). MP is on an altogether different track within the organization. he gets more rope... of course, to use another cliche he may very well hang himself with it.

All that said. Omark has been given opportunity by the organization. Whether other players have been given more (rightly or wrongly we can debate), he's been given his shot. He can only blame himself if his ice time gets cut.

Here's a good article, outlining exactly what Omark accomplished last season:

http://www.coppernblue.com/2011/11/1/2528166/linus-omark-shooting-percentage-and-the-illusion-of-validity#storyjump

As a summary of the above link, Omark scores (points/60min) near the top of the team, while having one of the best shot differentials as well. The only stat that didn't represent well was his shooting percentage - which was at an all time career low for him.

So he gets about 50 games last year, and shows that he can learn the NA game pretty quickly (while also adjusting to a new language and living on a new continent). Then he gets 5 games this year, while playing with only one set of linemates and with the team trying something new (winning by playing a system), and he gets yanked.

Yes, technically that's an opportunity, but how many more 5 goal games in the AHL does this guy have to post?

Uh oh... here comes Arch!

Edit: I'm NOT saying that MPS should sit in place of O!, but there's another small guy on this roster who really isn't showing well so far.

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#26 TigerUnderGlass
November 05 2011, 11:00AM
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All that said. Omark has been given opportunity by the organization. Whether other players have been given more (rightly or wrongly we can debate), he's been given his shot. He can only blame himself if his ice time gets cut.

The problem is that he did perform. We have all last season to see that he is a better hockey player than Jones for example, but 5 games cold when nobody else on his line has scored either and he's out? That is not being given a shot.

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#27 CrazyCaptain88
November 05 2011, 11:14AM
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@Romulus' Apotheosis

I agree with you godot10, but like Romulus' said the draft is very deep this year with some very strong players at the top. Winning is definitely important this year and playing in a playoff race in march and april is huge for our young guys. However, is Khabby going to be able sustain a high level of play throughout the whole season? I don't expect him to play as amazing as he is now, but is this just a hot streak for him? Or is the last couple of years more indicative of his play. Why not use his hot start and the desperation of another team to cash in? If we are able to steal away Columbus' first rounder and Khabby returns to the last couple of years we could be looking at getting Yakupov first overall. Also Khabby won't be the fix in net here long term, so it would be good to get Dubnyk some quality minutes. Just thinking of buying low and selling high that's all.

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#28 Archaeologuy
November 05 2011, 11:21AM
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TigerUnderGlass wrote:

I am not comparing the two players, I'm making a point about Omark. He has much more of a track record for scoring than MPS does but, while every one assumes MPS will start scoring soon, Omark is done in everyone's books.

If scoring were the only part of the game then Im sure Omark would be playing.

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#29 Archaeologuy
November 05 2011, 11:27AM
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TigerUnderGlass wrote:
All that said. Omark has been given opportunity by the organization. Whether other players have been given more (rightly or wrongly we can debate), he's been given his shot. He can only blame himself if his ice time gets cut.

The problem is that he did perform. We have all last season to see that he is a better hockey player than Jones for example, but 5 games cold when nobody else on his line has scored either and he's out? That is not being given a shot.

Jones has scored AND kills penalties. I dont think that its at all obvious that Omark is a better player than Jones.

1 goal per 10 games played. Brutal +/-. Doesnt contribute to the PK. Older than all the other prospects. Smaller in size than all the other prospects. Can be no higher than 3rd on the depth chart for RWs.

He had his shot and failed. If he has the will to do so he will fight for his chance to play at the AHL level. Too bad all indicators point to him being a heartless player who will tuck tail and run back to Europe.

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#30 a lg dubl dubl
November 05 2011, 11:37AM
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justDOit wrote:

I don't know about that - his points will come, but he's not playing with two #1 picks.

It would be an interesting experiment to play all the other players with Hall/Nugkins and see how they do, but I'd rather see the W's accumulate.

I think once Hemsky comes back and is on the line of Gagner and MPS, that could be the "new" 2nd line that Horcoff, Smyth and Jones have assumed for now and the the Oil should have a solid 3 lines that can put up good #s.

As good as Belanger has been in the dot imo I see him more suited for the 4th line with pk mins.

I think I'm rambling now but my point is givin time Gagner, Hemsky and MPS will produce and the Ws will be there, as long as Khabby keeps looking like he has been....solid.

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#31 Talbot17
November 05 2011, 11:39AM
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Magnum PS notches his first tonight top shelf

erm..clehkla (clears throat).....SQUUUUEEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeEEEEEEEE

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#32 Romulus' Apotheosis
November 05 2011, 11:43AM
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TigerUnderGlass wrote:
All that said. Omark has been given opportunity by the organization. Whether other players have been given more (rightly or wrongly we can debate), he's been given his shot. He can only blame himself if his ice time gets cut.

The problem is that he did perform. We have all last season to see that he is a better hockey player than Jones for example, but 5 games cold when nobody else on his line has scored either and he's out? That is not being given a shot.

And @Justdoit

I see what both of you are saying. My comment was less "Omark isn't worth ice time" and more "I think these are the underlying factors (some of them matters of perception more than performance) that have led to the current result."

Omark is on a different track in the Org. than MP (for example, or Jones, or Gags for that matter) and so he needs different things to happen to get his shot. You can't simply ignore the organization's long term goals when factoring these things (you can argue with them but you can't ignore them).

Now, given where he is... 5 games is pretty good. Lots of players would kill to have 5 games in the show to prove themselves. Is he undervalued in the organization? Does he have to work harder to get noticed? to get time? Maybe. But that is the situation he is in... He is in command of it at some level. If the organization is making him push harder than other players to make it... he should rise to the occasion and take his success as a point of pride.

Possible swaps: Jones is a totally different player and it is harder to compare them one to one. Besides he's going to have to be reevaluated in favor of Hemsky anyway.

Gags is a proven player coming off an injury; too soon is the only valid question. He has earned ice time at this level and deserves a bit of rope.

MP is on a different tract within Oil. development and so that is why i think he gets the slight edge (that and size, youth, play, of course). But i could see him coming out a few games... even then it doesn't put him with Omark which many here seem to think is the solution to both their woes.

All in all, it's a log jam of players and a tough call to make. I think it's best for Omark to be in OKC and actually playing right now. The best I can suss out for him in the show (excepting injury) is a platoon position with someone... and that doesn't sound like recipe for success for him or the Oil.

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#33 DSF
November 05 2011, 11:45AM
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@ LT.

Thing is...there is a finite number of games in a season.

If you go pointless in 12 of those games, you don't get them back.

You have to score at a significantly higher rate than last season in the remaining 72 games to end up in the same place.

Given that he is not being afforded the same quality of linemates and PP time he was last season, it is highly unlikely he will match last season's already tepid scoring rate.

It should also be noted, that as bad as his shooting percentage was last season (8.3%), it also was a high water mark for him since he was closer to 5-6% in the SEL.

He is on pace for 164 SOG this season, which is only slightly below last season's 180 so it would appear his shooting percentage is reverting to the mean.

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#34 Romulus' Apotheosis
November 05 2011, 11:47AM
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CrazyCaptain88 wrote:

I agree with you godot10, but like Romulus' said the draft is very deep this year with some very strong players at the top. Winning is definitely important this year and playing in a playoff race in march and april is huge for our young guys. However, is Khabby going to be able sustain a high level of play throughout the whole season? I don't expect him to play as amazing as he is now, but is this just a hot streak for him? Or is the last couple of years more indicative of his play. Why not use his hot start and the desperation of another team to cash in? If we are able to steal away Columbus' first rounder and Khabby returns to the last couple of years we could be looking at getting Yakupov first overall. Also Khabby won't be the fix in net here long term, so it would be good to get Dubnyk some quality minutes. Just thinking of buying low and selling high that's all.

I think vying for that spot is an option. But i'm not sure Khabbie is the way to do it. Why would they want him...? it just seems unlikely they would trade away that pick for him (even if the pot was sweetened).

It is also a funny situation that you would be trading NHL ready assets to a team that sucks. Why would they want them other than to win right now... and if they win right now... we lose in the Lotto! a catch 22!

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#35 justDOit
November 05 2011, 11:53AM
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@Romulus' Apotheosis

But on the flip side of Gagner 'earning' some rope, comes some responsibility. If he's an established player he shouldn't need much time to get back into it. And given that he's moved to a much less difficult role on the team just magnifies that.

And I've defended Gagner a lot over the years, but I really feel that this year he's playing himself off of this team - or that the newer kids are playing him off.

What ever the case may be, O! did not get a fair opportunity this year, after posting some pretty good numbers last year. Yes, it's a business first and he has to accept that. He's not waiver eligible and Gagner is, and Lander/Petrell are not comparables. O! can't take their place.

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#36 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
November 05 2011, 12:01PM
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TigerUnderGlass wrote:
All that said. Omark has been given opportunity by the organization. Whether other players have been given more (rightly or wrongly we can debate), he's been given his shot. He can only blame himself if his ice time gets cut.

The problem is that he did perform. We have all last season to see that he is a better hockey player than Jones for example, but 5 games cold when nobody else on his line has scored either and he's out? That is not being given a shot.

Must be a conspiracy.

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#37 BArmstrong
November 05 2011, 12:06PM
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TigerUnderGlass wrote:

I am not comparing the two players, I'm making a point about Omark. He has much more of a track record for scoring than MPS does but, while every one assumes MPS will start scoring soon, Omark is done in everyone's books.

I can't wait for Omark to be traded for a 4th round pick or a number 6 AHL dman, THEN put up 25-40-65, THEN never be mentioned on this site again... kinda like Souray.

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#38 Archaeologuy
November 05 2011, 12:11PM
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@BArmstrong

Are those career total numbers or AHL numbers?

65 points puts him right around 30th in league scoring. Are you suggesting he's top 30 in the NHL talent?

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#39 Captain Obvious
November 05 2011, 12:13PM
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godot10 wrote:

Re: Paajarvi vs. Omark

See Paajarvi vs. Hartikainen, and replace Hartikainen with Omark.

Except Hartikainen is 6'1", 210 lbs, and Omark is 5'10", 180 lbs, and the Oilers have too many small players already.

You have to be high to believe Hartikainen is a better player than Omark.

Repeat after me. There is no such thing as roles.

Repeat after me. Size doesn't matter.

Repeat after me. All that matters is quality.

Teams that understand this win. Teams that don't, lose.

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#40 Captain Obvious
November 05 2011, 12:15PM
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TigerUnderGlass wrote:

I am not comparing the two players, I'm making a point about Omark. He has much more of a track record for scoring than MPS does but, while every one assumes MPS will start scoring soon, Omark is done in everyone's books.

You know why this is. Your average fan is incapable of independent thought.

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#41 Archaeologuy
November 05 2011, 12:18PM
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Captain Obvious wrote:

You have to be high to believe Hartikainen is a better player than Omark.

Repeat after me. There is no such thing as roles.

Repeat after me. Size doesn't matter.

Repeat after me. All that matters is quality.

Teams that understand this win. Teams that don't, lose.

You dont think roles exist? How do you figure?

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#42 BArmstrong
November 05 2011, 12:20PM
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@Archaeologuy

Hey - if Gags can be, why not Omark?

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#43 Archaeologuy
November 05 2011, 12:22PM
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@BArmstrong

Youth, pedigree, experience, and talent? I guess I would start with those things.

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#44 Dodd
November 05 2011, 12:22PM
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TigerUnderGlass wrote:

I am not comparing the two players, I'm making a point about Omark. He has much more of a track record for scoring than MPS does but, while every one assumes MPS will start scoring soon, Omark is done in everyone's books.

I'd be surprised if there was anyone in the knowledgable ranks here who thinks Omark is "done". We are witnessing something called "managing depth" here, not the end of a player.

Besides his track record for scoring so far, Omark also has a track record for disappearing for stretches. Omark also has a track record of hot-dogging: a "high risk, high reward" type of play that has only really worked out half of the time.

MPS skates a bit harder, and really competes defensively night in, night out. At least one or two times per game MPS makes the right stick check, or draws a penalty that changes the game.

If this were a comparison of scoring alone, we should feel that many in our lineup should be sitting/ on the farm. But it's not, and that's why Omark is down (not for long I bet) and MPS is still here.

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#45 Captain Obvious
November 05 2011, 12:23PM
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Archaeologuy wrote:

You dont think roles exist? How do you figure?

I think there is no such thing as a top six forward or a bottom six forward. I think there is no such thing as an energy line.

I think that people who believe these tropes unnecessarily limit the quality of their team to play worse players who contribute less to the team.

That's what I figure.

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#46 Quicksilver ballet
November 05 2011, 12:27PM
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Romulus' Apotheosis wrote:

Hell even QB/Moneypuck seems to have come around and is cheering for wins...

that said... talk is building that this year the draft might be hella deep. It would be nice if we could do both... we do seem to have a deep bench at certain positions right now. getting into the top 6 pics could be huge.

Winning is always a pleasant distraction.

Still think we need one or two more top 5 picks to set this team up long term. We may not be able to count on one of those being our own but i still feel a significant efforts be made to gather shots at these higher end selections. If it takes a two swap process to achieve something like that, so be it, we are still in rebuild mode aren't we?

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#47 Archaeologuy
November 05 2011, 12:29PM
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@Captain Obvious

That pretty much flies in the face of every shred of evidence that has ever been collected, but I guess you can believe whatever you want.

Maybe you want to look at things like ice time, power plays, penalty kills, and on-ice matchups. A cursory look should provide you with enough to see that teams often use their players in specific ways designed to maximise their chances at winning.

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#48 Captain Obvious
November 05 2011, 12:37PM
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Archaeologuy wrote:

That pretty much flies in the face of every shred of evidence that has ever been collected, but I guess you can believe whatever you want.

Maybe you want to look at things like ice time, power plays, penalty kills, and on-ice matchups. A cursory look should provide you with enough to see that teams often use their players in specific ways designed to maximise their chances at winning.

I disagree. There is no evidence, either empirical or rational, to support what you are saying.

Good teams do not make roster selections on the basis of roles. Rather they use their players on the basis of roles. Which is not at all the same thing. You shouldn't confuse the words that they say with what they actually do.

Roles are about organizing those players you have in as efficient a manner as possible. However the determining factor in these cases is always the quality of players involved. Hence Horcoff and Smyth aren't put out against the other teams best players because they are good checkers they are put out against the other teams best players because they are the Oilers best players.

The use of the word "roles" obfuscates what actually happens. For instance in the choosing of the Olympic team a lot of lip service is given to the importance of roles. Nonetheless the actual players chose for these roles are nonetheless first line players. Brandon Morrow and Patrice Bergeron are amongst the best players in the league. They aren't role players.

Likewise the Oilers should be playing their best players as measured on an absolute scale and then choosing when to play them according to the situation of the game.

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#49 CrazyCaptain88
November 05 2011, 12:39PM
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@Romulus' Apotheosis

Well my thought process (dream) is that with Columbus' goalie Steve Mason not being able to stop a beach ball in net there that they are in the market for a goalie. We happen to have the hotttest goalie in the game right now and couple that with the fact that Scott Howson is in desperation mode to save his job. I realize that it'll take more than just Khabby to get this first round pick, maybe Khabby and Gagner or Khabby, Omark and a second??

Also I might be pessimistic, but I don't think Khabby will keep this up throughout the year, but if we make this deal while he is hot and he returns to the form of last year at some point with Columbus that gives us a good chance to land a lottery pick. It is possible that Khabby has a great year and if we trade him the pick that we get isn't as great as what I think. It's still early, but they have a lot of ground to make up. Basically what I'm trying to say is I'm hoping to try and pry something out of a team that is in a desperate situation.

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#50 Jerk Store
November 05 2011, 12:45PM
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@Captain Obvious

Then why not just take the top 12 Canadian scorers and top 6 scoring defenseman for the 2014 Olympics. Should work, right? I mean MA Bergeron is going to be far more valuable than Shea Weber. Step aside Mike Richards, Alex Tanguay is hot. There is a reason Toewes was our best Olympian. He knew his ROLE and played it to perfection. Role players by definition "fill a role". Possibly the craziest thing I have heard. Are you channeling Madjam or something?

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