Samwise The Hurdler

Lowetide
December 01 2011 05:10PM

There was a time when Sam Gagner was the great hope for the Edmonton Oilers. A high draft pick who could post 40+ points and had his future in front of him, Gagner's slick passes and razzle dazzle made him a crowd favorite. In Edmonton these days, it doesn't take long to become yesterday's papers. For most Oiler fans, Gagner is strictly under the fold and probably somewhere near the classifieds. How then does Tom Renney feel about him?

 

 

In the post-game last night coach Tom Renney defended his young forward vehemently. When asked by Ryan Rishaug about heat on Sam Gagner and what the young player might be able to do to end the slump, the coach said: "I don't know where the heat would come from other than outside. Inside we're really happy with his game and his effort. He's getting lots of touches he's doing the right things, he scored an important goal in the shootout although it didn't matter at the end of the night. Sam's playing really hard, really well, and so wherever the heat may come from if he keeps playing like this he won't have to worry about it coming from within."

Often a coach will say one thing and do another, and when it comes to NHL coaches the proof is in the time on ice. If Samwise was in the doghouse we'd be able to see it in TOI totals. Here are Gagner's TOI's over the last 5 games.

  • November 22: 11:41
  • November 25: 16:21
  • November 26: 18:30
  • November 28: 15:20
  • November 30: 18:29

With Taylor Hall's injury, 89's playing time has increased, and as he finally gets himself straightened away after a couple of early season injuries the youngster selected 6th overall in 2007 seems to be finding his way.

His offensive contributions have improved, to the point where the 5x5 numbers aren't completely out of place compared to his scoring history:

By The Numbers
•07-08 5x5 per 60m: 1.96
•08-09 5x5 per 60m: 1.69
•09-10 5x5 per 60m: 1.56
•10-11 5x5 per 60m: 1.91
•11-12 5x5 per 60m: 1.11

 

WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN?

This is more about the future than anything that will happen this season, but I'm encouraged about how coach Renney is handling young Gagner. By word and by deed, Renney is showing confidence in his young forward despite the lack of immediate payoff. Sam Gagner has all world talent, and anyone can look faded next to the shiny new dimes on the Oilers (just ask Taylor Hall what it's like to be in RNH's shadow).

NHL coaches can't afford to waste talent, despite frustration, injuries, goal posts and luck--good and bad.

Sam Gagner's history tells us he can be better, and here's hoping coach Renney is rewarded for playing the percentages. Math and saw him good agree--Gagner's a player who should be better and is improving. It appears he'll get the at-bats to prove it.

C2a6955161684b5e3189319acfa5ebe4
Lowetide has been one of the Oilogosphere's shining lights for over a century. You can check him out here at OilersNation and at lowetide.ca. He is also the host of Lowdown with Lowetide weekday mornings 10-noon on Team 1260.
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#1 Crash
December 01 2011, 05:35PM
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Hope Sam knows not everyone on the outside is putting the heat on him....just some fans and media.

There are many of us who can see the all world talent...why so many are quick to want to cast aside this kind of talent at age 22 is beyond me and many of the outsiders can't seem to picture 2 and 3 yrs from now when Sam is entering his prime and Horcoff and Belanger are nearing their end.

Is he as good as RNH, Eberle and Hall? No, he isn't, but he's still damn skilled and he's not in his prime for a couple more years.

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#2 Travis Dakin
December 01 2011, 07:44PM
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@DSF

You're seriously just screwing with people here, right?

Nobody would keep repeating the same diatribe, that makes them look like an idiot with next to zero clue about the game, without having their tongue planted firmly in cheek.

Seriously, next you're going to say you don't get to game 7 of the Cup finals with Shawn Horcoff as your number one centre.

Wait...... What?

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#3 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
December 01 2011, 05:53PM
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DSF wrote:

1.11 looks completely out of place to me when compared with 1.96 (which isn't all that good to begin with).

Jeff Skinner, a raw rookie last season and a lower draft pick than Gagner, finished up at 2.49 and is currently sitting at 2.78.

Put in that context, 1.11 is pretty dreadful and completely "out of place".

~Good point, it's really relevant considering the article is directly comparing Gagner to Skinner.~

If we do want to compare the two, lets at least cover all the basis. Gagner is obviously a VASTLY superior defensive player with his 1.66 GAON/60 vs Skinners 3.27 GAON/60

Hell, lets take it one step further. Gagner is clearly better drawing even at the GAON vs GFON, while Skinner is getting outscored by almost a third of a goal per 60 min.

Gagner must be >>> Skinner

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#5 Puritania
December 01 2011, 07:38PM
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DSF wrote:

You can get to the 7th game of the Cup finals with Kesler.

You can finish out of the playoffs for 6 years in a row with Gagner.

You pick.

Man I wish we would have traded Gagner for Kesler at the start of last season. It would have been great to have been in the 7th game of the Cup finals while watching the Nucks miss the playoffs.

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#6 book¡e
December 01 2011, 07:58PM
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I hope you all realize that DSF stands for:

Dance, Silly Fuckers!

Stop Dancing for the man and we will all be better off for it!

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#7 rent a goalie
December 01 2011, 09:10PM
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just wanted to point out that Wellwood doesn't play down the middle here in Wpg. Also, while he started the season on the third line, he hasn't played there since since about the third week.

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#8 PaperDesigner
December 02 2011, 04:04AM
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I used to be a moderator on a videogame website's forums. Saw a lot of poster types pass through, but DSF annoys me, because he fits a certain profile that was probably the most annoying sort, largely because their offenses usually did not violate any rules per se. Here is the profile.

1. Obsession with a small handful of topics. They will typically harp on the same, usually contrarian position, rehashing the same position in as many different ways as possible. You usually can predict the general content of their post just by seeing the topic.

2. Absolute rigidity of opinion. Most people, if you empathetically oppose them, Or point out weaknesses in their arguments, will show some willingness to bend. These posters never show any sign of reconsidering their own opinion, even if it can be shown to be fallacious. They either ignore good counter-arguments or simply shift the playing field to something else.

3. Cool behavior. They almost never indicate strong emotion, except maybe distaste, which is often in sharp contrast to the annoyance and anger they incite. This, combined with their certainty of their inherent correctness, tends to give them an air of superiority, all under a veil of polite behavior.

4. They seek attention. They post more in places where they are likely to get a reaction. And when they do get a reaction someplace, they tend to post even more there.

In short, these are people that tend to be contrarian, unreasonable, quietly arrogant, obsessive, prolific, minimally socially acceptable and overall, they come not to discuss, but to evangelize their perspective of the world.

I suppose there is a good chance this gets deleted, or that DSF dismisses this as an ad hominen attack, but I am not really trying to discredit him--I merely wish to point out that his presence makes this website less pleasant to visit, and that I believe that the best thing would be for him to admit to antisocial behavior, pull himself away from Internet sites, ask himself why he needs to constantly seek validation by "proving himself right", and seek counseling.

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#9 jeanshorts
December 01 2011, 07:20PM
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DSF wrote:

Kane and Alzner easy.

Voracek (7th) is on pace for 57 points.

Couture (9th) (passed Sammy eons ago).

Ryan McDonagh is a stud...ditto Shattenkirk.

Pacioretty, yes please.

Blum? Perron?

He's being passed like an old lady in a Pinto.

Jamie Benn should have went second instead of 129th!! PK Subban didn't go until halfway through the second round!

This is fun. Let's play "What NHL Teams Should Have Done In Hindsight 5 Years Later" all the time!

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#10 jeanshorts
December 01 2011, 07:51PM
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@Travis Dakin

Unfortunately some people have super hollow lives, and micro-penises, so their only refuge from their horrible existence is to try and drag down everyone around them.

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#11 David S
December 01 2011, 09:30PM
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DSF wrote:

Sure you can. All you need is Chris Pronger and a great supporting cast.

Gagner doesn't qualify on either count.

You mean a great supporting cast like Skinner, Seguin, Kopitar, Kane, Toews, Stamkos, Tavares, Seguin, Karlsson, Giroux and on and on (I'm tired of typing) have?

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#12 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
December 01 2011, 06:08PM
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@ DSF

Point was (which not suprisingly you missed)that it's irrelavant what Skinner is doing, theirs piles of players doing better then Gagner just like theirs piles doing worse.

You must have also missed the edit. Gagner is clearly better then Skinner because he's playing his opposition straight up, while Skinner is getting outscored.

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#13 closetgm
December 01 2011, 06:15PM
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Its about time someone said it! I think its ridiculous that the fans here are all over Gagner. Why?? Because he has had a bad start?? You will give up on a 22 yr old guy who was injured and didnt have the best start. Thats real smart. The fact is we shouldnt be getting rid of any of these guys unless the return is huge, and we all know thats unlikley to happen. Stay the course let these guys develop and make smart moves from a position of power. Thats how we will become champions again.

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#14 Wax Man Riley
December 01 2011, 06:46PM
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For any player playing more than 20 games, Jordan Eberle has the best P/60 in the league (3.53), therefore he is the best player in the league.

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#15 Romulus' Apotheosis
December 01 2011, 06:58PM
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nofool6110 wrote:

Guys and gals! We're getting away from the topic here.

Let's all simply agree to disagree. Rather, simply agree to this: Smid > Gagner.

Nuff said.

C'mon you're not even trying anymore! Everyone knows you can put anyone... indeed anything on the other side of Smid and the greater than sign will still favor Smid!

Smid > Putin

Smid > Frankie Lymon

Smid > Darkseid

Smid > Wallace Shawn

Smid > Týr

Smid > Jessica Alba

Smid > Gingold

ad infinitum

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#16 jeanshorts
December 01 2011, 07:12PM
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DSF wrote:

Problem is, you can't win much with a second line centre who only pops 40-50 a year and is a defensive liability.

Have nice warm thoughts about Kesler(73 points) and Krejci (62 points).

Not like it took Kesler 5 seasons before he started hitting his stride or anything either...................................................................................................................................................................................

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#17 justincider
December 01 2011, 09:12PM
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rent a goalie wrote:

just wanted to point out that Wellwood doesn't play down the middle here in Wpg. Also, while he started the season on the third line, he hasn't played there since since about the third week.

Doesnt matter, DSF has no interest in comparing apples to apples.

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#18 borisnikov
December 01 2011, 09:53PM
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What's with all the hate flying around oiler blogs the last couple days. Be careful or were going to sound like Vancouver fans.

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#19 cableguy - 2nd Tier Fan
December 02 2011, 07:58AM
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PaperDesigner wrote:

I used to be a moderator on a videogame website's forums. Saw a lot of poster types pass through, but DSF annoys me, because he fits a certain profile that was probably the most annoying sort, largely because their offenses usually did not violate any rules per se. Here is the profile.

1. Obsession with a small handful of topics. They will typically harp on the same, usually contrarian position, rehashing the same position in as many different ways as possible. You usually can predict the general content of their post just by seeing the topic.

2. Absolute rigidity of opinion. Most people, if you empathetically oppose them, Or point out weaknesses in their arguments, will show some willingness to bend. These posters never show any sign of reconsidering their own opinion, even if it can be shown to be fallacious. They either ignore good counter-arguments or simply shift the playing field to something else.

3. Cool behavior. They almost never indicate strong emotion, except maybe distaste, which is often in sharp contrast to the annoyance and anger they incite. This, combined with their certainty of their inherent correctness, tends to give them an air of superiority, all under a veil of polite behavior.

4. They seek attention. They post more in places where they are likely to get a reaction. And when they do get a reaction someplace, they tend to post even more there.

In short, these are people that tend to be contrarian, unreasonable, quietly arrogant, obsessive, prolific, minimally socially acceptable and overall, they come not to discuss, but to evangelize their perspective of the world.

I suppose there is a good chance this gets deleted, or that DSF dismisses this as an ad hominen attack, but I am not really trying to discredit him--I merely wish to point out that his presence makes this website less pleasant to visit, and that I believe that the best thing would be for him to admit to antisocial behavior, pull himself away from Internet sites, ask himself why he needs to constantly seek validation by "proving himself right", and seek counseling.

can we have this posted as a disclaimer on every DSF post?

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#20 Hemmertime
December 01 2011, 05:20PM
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He's been playing better since he threw his FISTs the other night. Hope he turns into our tough guy - or at least fights Kovalchuk better than Comrie did

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#21 Wax Man Riley
December 01 2011, 06:40PM
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DSF wrote:

Since we want to give Sam the benefit of doubt this season since he's recovering from injury, let's have a look at last season.

Gagner: GAON/60 - 3.81 (the worst in the entire NHL) Playing the 8th toughest competition.

Skinner: GAON/60 - 2.78

One would think Sam is riding a great ONSV% this season (he is).

But carry on.

Hey, don't get me wrong, I'd take a performing Skinner over a slumping Gagner any day.

But Joffrey Lupul has a better P/60 (2.69) than Datsyuk (2.36) I guess yo uwould rather have Lupul on your team?

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#22 nofool6110
December 01 2011, 06:50PM
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Guys and gals! We're getting away from the topic here.

Let's all simply agree to disagree. Rather, simply agree to this: Smid > Gagner.

Nuff said.

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#23 Wax Man Riley
December 01 2011, 06:59PM
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And hey... I'm not arguing this....

Skinner for Gagner....ummmm yes please. I am just arguing that Gagner is not and should not be compared to a 1st line center anymore. We flirted for 3 years with that idea and that is where all of this dissension comes from.

If Gagner can fit a #2 center popping 40-50 a year.... I think that justifies his $2M price tag

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#24 jeanshorts
December 01 2011, 07:06PM
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He's ALREADY 22 and he hasn't blossomed into a bonafide NHL superstar yet? BUST!!!

I mean it's not like all the guys who went ahead of him (not including Kane, maybe Alzner) have had far less success so far or anything......

Yes, we should definitely freak out that a guy who would still be in University at this point in his life doesn't have everything figured out and hasn't reached his potential.

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#25 Wax Man Riley
December 01 2011, 07:22PM
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@DSF

Apparently you can't win with Kesler either. And he didn't start producing until the Sedins did too.

In 2008, Detroit won with Hudler (42) and Fillpula(36), but I'm sure that's a special case because, well, they are Detroit. And you have to go all the way back to New Jersey in 2003 where nobody had over 60 pts.

It's possible but not as likely.

Another thought is that Gagner has played on really bad teams. Poor teams with bad players. Teams that had no hope in making the playoffs. I don't know if that's a defense or a slag on Gagner, but I'm sure it has something to do with it.

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#26 Romulus' Apotheosis
December 01 2011, 07:23PM
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"[Gagner's] not a very good hockey player"

~that sounds about right... a guy with 179 points in 309 games in the best hockey league in the world at the ripe age of 22 is unequivocally NOT VERY GOOD~

Other things that are not very good:

22 Year Old Swimsuit Model Boobs!

Nikon Cameras!

John Candy Comedies!

Apple Computers!

Belgian Beer!

Daredevil's Aural Skills!

... add your own!

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#27 jeanshorts
December 01 2011, 07:27PM
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Romulus' Apotheosis wrote:

"[Gagner's] not a very good hockey player"

~that sounds about right... a guy with 179 points in 309 games in the best hockey league in the world at the ripe age of 22 is unequivocally NOT VERY GOOD~

Other things that are not very good:

22 Year Old Swimsuit Model Boobs!

Nikon Cameras!

John Candy Comedies!

Apple Computers!

Belgian Beer!

Daredevil's Aural Skills!

... add your own!

Free money!

Blowjobs!

Pizza!

Making the playoffs!

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#28 Wax Man Riley
December 01 2011, 07:39PM
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DSF wrote:

You can get to the 7th game of the Cup finals with Kesler.

You can finish out of the playoffs for 6 years in a row with Gagner.

You pick.

You got me there. Unfortunately I will take Kesler, the Sedins, Bieksa, Ehrhoff, Raymond, Burrows, Malhotra and Luongo over:

Gagner, Penner, Omark, Cogliano, Nillson, Moreau, Chorney, and Deslaurier any day.

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#29 Denis
December 01 2011, 08:02PM
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DSF wrote:

Sure you can. All you need is Chris Pronger and a great supporting cast.

Gagner doesn't qualify on either count.

Ah, so now you admit you need a good supporting cast around you. Gagner hasn't had that. Kesler has.

~thank god one person can screw a team so wholly and they don't need a great supporting cast~

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#30 Travis Dakin
December 01 2011, 08:04PM
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DSF wrote:

You mean like RNH, Eberle, Skinner, Seguin, Kopitar, Kane, Toews, Stamkos, Tavares, Seguin, Karlsson, Giroux and on and on (I'm tired of typing).

Yeah, a bunch of stiffs no doubt.

None of those guys did a thing before they were 22.

Good grief.

So, you name a bunch of elite players who were successful and come to the conclusion that Gagner sucks because he doesn't have as many points as them?

I'm arguing with a teenager, right? This is how logic works in your mind?

Tell me, when I said "Most 22 year olds don't have the same track record as Gagner" (key word: MOST), was your thought: We should trade Gagner and get one of those elite guys that I just googled?

I guess you got me. Gagner does suck. Lets trade him for someone better. Stupid Tambo.

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#31 Puritania
December 01 2011, 08:04PM
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DSF wrote:

I think your best hope in a Gagner trade is a second round pick.

Just thinking Kesler might not be on the table.

I knew you were going to latch onto that instead of the actual point of my post, nice dodge!

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#32 Wanyes bastard child
December 01 2011, 08:08PM
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book¡e wrote:

I hope you all realize that DSF stands for:

Dance, Silly Fuckers!

Stop Dancing for the man and we will all be better off for it!

Actually I think he's of the belief that every 18-22 year old in the league should be a phenom and that the Oilers should be full of them but can't accept the fact that no team can do it.

Analyzing stats of our players vs the best players in the leagues can be fun and all but realistically useless since you can't have a 4th line consisting of Crosby/Kane/Skinner...

Plus I think I read it somewhere that he has anger issues...

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#33 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
December 01 2011, 09:42PM
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DSF wrote:

Despite all the ad hominen attacks...please be aware Sam Ganger is not a very good hockey player. And another 5 years of development isn't going to change that.

He IS Kyle Wellwood.

Book it.

That reminds me of when you were trying to tell us that Wellwood didn't get the "primo" PP minutes his first 4 years like Gagner has..... when in fact Wellwood did.

That was good times.

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#34 mb
December 01 2011, 05:21PM
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supa FIST

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#35 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
December 01 2011, 05:57PM
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Romulus' Apotheosis wrote:

Good to know the underlying #s support what I've been seeing on the ice... An increasingly determined young man picking up his game after a lacklustre start... sure hope the boxcars follow.

It was great to see the smile on his face after the goal last night... and even greater to see Renney put that kind of trust in him. I expect that confidence boost will pay dividends shortly.

As far as the backlash goes... after a certain point you just have to give in and let the goatherds have their goat... every team has a few players that can no good by their fans... Gags, Hemsky, Horcoff seem to come front and center most often on the OFGLS (Oiler Fan Goat Lazy Susan).

Basically every player that's here more then 4-5 years eventually becomes a goat.

It's more a reflection on the fans then it is the players.

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#36 David Staples
December 01 2011, 06:03PM
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Injuries always throw things way out of whack for players, so that's what we see in Gagner's early season number. He's looked healthy and played well in the past few games, though. Stick with him? Of course. He's still got the talent he always had, and looks readier than ever to play a two-way game.

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#37 Wax Man Riley
December 01 2011, 06:11PM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

~Good point, it's really relevant considering the article is directly comparing Gagner to Skinner.~

If we do want to compare the two, lets at least cover all the basis. Gagner is obviously a VASTLY superior defensive player with his 1.66 GAON/60 vs Skinners 3.27 GAON/60

Hell, lets take it one step further. Gagner is clearly better drawing even at the GAON vs GFON, while Skinner is getting outscored by almost a third of a goal per 60 min.

Gagner must be >>> Skinner

Wow, I was going to tell you not to feed him, but that is a great point. Gager>>>>Skinner. (when talking about GAON/60)

I don't see how Gagner at 22 can be cast aside when there are rookies like Matt Read coming in at 25 or Craig Smith at 22. All of these players have been playing for their entire lives and most assume these rookies are going to get better as they mature.

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#38 Wax Man Riley
December 01 2011, 06:21PM
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We can cherry pick stats all day long. Sam has more assists than Jordan Staal, so he must have better on-ice vision.

Gagner>>>>>Jordan Staal

Same assists as that rookie Landeskog too...

Gagner = Landeskog

Nathan Gerbe has more points than Gagner.

Gerbe>>>>Gagner

Gerbe>>>>Semin

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#39 Dipstick
December 01 2011, 06:40PM
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After their performances last night, I am considerably less concerned with Gags and PRV. Especially in Gag's case, they have shown some determination to break out. Even without the offensive production, they are competing and playing better defensively. It is only a matter of time until it straightens itself out.

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#40 Oilers G- Nations Poet Laureate
December 01 2011, 07:37PM
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Romulus' Apotheosis wrote:

"[Gagner's] not a very good hockey player"

~that sounds about right... a guy with 179 points in 309 games in the best hockey league in the world at the ripe age of 22 is unequivocally NOT VERY GOOD~

Other things that are not very good:

22 Year Old Swimsuit Model Boobs!

Nikon Cameras!

John Candy Comedies!

Apple Computers!

Belgian Beer!

Daredevil's Aural Skills!

... add your own!

Gretzky, Kurri, Moog

Messier and Anderson,

Coffey and Simpson

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#41 Travis Dakin
December 01 2011, 07:48PM
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Wax Man Riley wrote:

I think DSF really believes Gagner is a bad player. And that's fine, he does make a couple of good points, that if you look at #2C, most of the winners don't look like Gagner.

But your final paragraph..... classic! I actually LOL'd and something came out of my nose.

Most 22 year olds don't have the track record that Gagner has.

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#42 Clyde Frog
December 01 2011, 07:58PM
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DSF wrote:

I think your best hope in a Gagner trade is a second round pick.

Just thinking Kesler might not be on the table.

I know your mom cut you off from the free cheetos a while ago and you have been angry ever since.

But you want to trade a centre that produced in the top 50 last year for an almost magic bean?

That statement robbed 100% of your credibility.

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#43 Travis Dakin
December 01 2011, 08:15PM
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@Wax Man Riley

He will NEVER be the dominant player that some once predicted. He will be a good second line centre that pots about 0.75pts/gm. That's more than sufficient on a good team. This is the first year he has finally had some guys to play with. He's maturing and coming off some injuries. He will find a lot of success playing under the radar or "the soft parade" as the mathletes like to say.

People that think guys like Gagner are the problem are equivalent to people that introduce themselves by telling you that "Stars are just little specks in the sky." You have to just let the small minds live in their small world.

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#44 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
December 01 2011, 08:15PM
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DSF wrote:

No I wouldn't.

You have to look at a player's body of work.

Sam's is extremely underwhelming given his draft pedigree and the opportunities he's been afforded both in top 6 and PP ice time.

After nearly 5 years I don't think it's a stretch to start thinking he's not a very good hockey player.

He's is Kyle Wellwood (7G 17P) Redux...certainly not a popular opinion with the Oiler Intelligentsia but it's how I see it.

Imagine what Skinner or RNH will be capable of in their 5th seasons.

Underwhelming compared to his draft pedigree? I think you need to look a little closer at guys that go in the 6 slot.

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#45 DSF
December 01 2011, 08:51PM
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Despite all the ad hominen attacks...please be aware Sam Ganger is not a very good hockey player. And another 5 years of development isn't going to change that.

He IS Kyle Wellwood.

Book it.

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#46 Douche Nietzsche
December 01 2011, 09:08PM
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Romulus' Apotheosis wrote:

Good to know the underlying #s support what I've been seeing on the ice... An increasingly determined young man picking up his game after a lacklustre start... sure hope the boxcars follow.

It was great to see the smile on his face after the goal last night... and even greater to see Renney put that kind of trust in him. I expect that confidence boost will pay dividends shortly.

As far as the backlash goes... after a certain point you just have to give in and let the goatherds have their goat... every team has a few players that can no good by their fans... Gags, Hemsky, Horcoff seem to come front and center most often on the OFGLS (Oiler Fan Goat Lazy Susan).

Tom Renney will praise Sam in the media, that is a given. He will try to give him as much as ice-time as he fairly can, that is also a given.

Gagner is on the trading block and the Oilers are trying to present/showcase him in the correct fashion.

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#47 Romulus' Apotheosis
December 01 2011, 09:23PM
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Douche Nietzsche wrote:

Tom Renney will praise Sam in the media, that is a given. He will try to give him as much as ice-time as he fairly can, that is also a given.

Gagner is on the trading block and the Oilers are trying to present/showcase him in the correct fashion.

Except I didn't say anything about Renney's comments. It's a given that he'll shine up whatever he can for the public in interviews.

What's relevant (and, I would argue, not a given) is that Renney would increasingly give Gagner more TOI and put him out early on in the shootout with a game on the line. That is, Renney's actions are relevant.

I don't, however, think his actions are for the benefit of prospective GMs. I think Renney believes those decisions are for the benefit of his team.

Otherwise you have to explain why Gagner's TOI is going up. If your answer is that he is playing worse and therefore they need to "showcase" him more to prospective GMs... I encourage you to rethink that strategy.

Why would I give a crappy player MORE opportunity to prove his worthlessness to potential buyers? Wouldn't I want to shield him as much as possible?

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#48 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
December 01 2011, 10:11PM
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DSF wrote:

Really?

Kesler scored 26 goals and 59 points the year BEFORE Malhotra arrived.

To run with the big dogs you have to be able to run.

Little Sammy can't run.

Chris Kelly's GFON/60 is 4.97 while Skinner is only 2.95 and Wellwoods is only 2.28.

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#49 book¡e
December 01 2011, 10:43PM
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Holy Jebezuz - DSF still has you guys going at nearly the 100 comment level.

Fine, I want in.

The problem with Sam Gagner is that the edge skills of Steve Macintyre, he advances the puck about as well as Khabibulin, he is slower than Barker, and he has fewer SEL goals than Jason Strudwick. The fact that Tembellini hasn't gotten anything for him in a trade at this point is irrefutable proof that he has no trade value.

You are all idiots who can't understand my genius.

Also, I hate Sam Gagner because he is a Communist!

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#50 They're $hittie
December 02 2011, 09:05AM
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@Ryan2

The reason he was overhyped was because of what he accomplished as a small 18 year old.

He got 49 points playing with two kids (total same age as R2H line) but with way less skilled players. AND BEAT UP KESLER!

Dominated the super series as an 18 year old that guys named turris, and tavares were suppose to dominate. Lucic, marchand, giroux and perron were on this team also

Won a gold medal in the world jrs as a very young 17 year old. He actually might have been 16 at the summer orientation camp. How many 17 year olds get to the world jr team. RNH didnt, Eberle didnt, Seguin didnt, SKINNER didnt. And a silver medal in the world championships. Yes not much playing time, but yzerman obviously sees something there.

You dont do all of this if you dont have a good amount of talent and skill. It is finding the way to unlock that player that makes them a star.

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