SO HONEST IT HURTS
Robin Brownlee
December 27 2011 05:02PM
Fans growing frustrated watching Ryan Whitney of the Edmonton Oilers struggle to bounce back from ankle surgery and find his game have nothing on the hobbled defenseman. He feels your pain, and then some.
That became abundantly clear today as Whitney met with reporters in a hallway outside the Oilers dressing room after the team skated in Leduc to discuss the tendinitis that kept him out of Tom Renney's line-up in a 5-3 loss to the Vancouver Canucks Monday.
The latest setback for Whitney – a right ankle that hasn't healed and come around as expected since doctors re-attached a torn tendon 11 months ago – has the usually upbeat blueliner feeling down and out, even if he tried to put a positive spin on how he's feeling these days.
You think it sucks to watch Whitney struggling on the ice like he's skating on two left feet without the ability to play the way he's shown he's capable of with the Oilers fading fast in the Western Conference?
Listen to him.
ANATOMY OF THE INJURY
"I had a really uncommon injury last year," said Whitney, who has played in 17 games this season and in just 52 of Edmonton's last 117 games. "The surgery went well, it was a success, but it doesn't happen very often so there's some question marks.
"I had an MRI and the surgery looks good, but my ankle is just so weak right now. So, because of that, it's pretty unstable. It's tough to skate. It's pronating in (rolling inward on the arch of the foot) is the problem.
"Until it strengthens, which, really, I don't know when that will be, they (doctors) think it will definitely happen, so that's a good sign. Until that really stops, my foot will always fall in and that puts pressure on that tendon, the post-tib tendon (posterior tibial tendon).
"That causes tendinitis after pressure is being put on it so often skating. The unfortunate thing for me is I haven't been able to skate yet. I don't feel right out there, you know? At the same time, I'm still playing on a foot, or little more than a foot."
BEATING HIMSELF UP
"I'm still an average defenseman in this league," said Whitney said, who had 27 points in 35 games last season but has just three assists in 17 games this season.
"Unfortunately for myself and the team and Tambi (Steve Tambellini), I'm paid a lot more than an average defenseman. So, it's a tough time mentally and physically just because you don't know when it will get better.
"When it's unstable, the problem of the foot falling in, I can play. It's no issue. I'm by no means, I think everyone's aware, playing at the level I did last year. I can. It's not for lack of effort. It's just the foot isn't exactly doing what I need it to do.
"When that pain's there, though, I just can't do it. It's falling in and then there's pain, so it's just like two things added up. That was just the past few weeks. That'll get better and I'll be able to play, it's just I need that ankle to get stronger to get back to the player this team needs me to be and that I want to be and I'm paid to be.
"It's very frustrating. Still, it's just about me going, basically, to the ends of the earth to find a solution, whether it be this month or the summer. I just feel bad not playing, you know, at the level the team needs me because, you know, we're losing and . . . it's just a tough time. I'm not losing hope by any means, it's just physically and mentally kind of draining."
UNCERTAIN ROAD AHEAD
I asked Whitney, who will accompany the Oilers on their six-game road trip, if this is something he can play through or if he's facing an extended period of staying out of the line-up to heal properly.
"I can play through it," he said, not sounding convincing. "I don't see, really, a time soon when I'll be 100 per cent. A lot of guys aren't playing 100 per cent, so that's not necessarily a big thing. I can play through, like I said. The foot not being, you know, completely 100 per cent balanced and stable.
"As tough as that is to explain to you guys, I know it's easier for me to feel it than explain it. I can play through it. It's just about mentally being as pissed off as, I'm sure, people who are watching me, that I'm not playing as good as I have or could.
"It's not anything I'm not doing off the ice or on the ice. It's just when you go to do certain things and have quick movements and pivot and stop certain ways and it physically doesn't happen. It's just kind of an empty feeling. I can play through it. It's just, like I said, me playing average hockey and it's not really what I'm paid to do."
THIS WILL TAKE TIME
As I said off the top, and you can take this to the bank, Whitney in no more accepting of how he's playing, despite obviously mitigating circumstances and physical challenges, than fans are. This is eating away at him.
I was prompted in the scrum today to suggest that Whitney might want to cut himself some slack over this. The issue, after all, goes well beyond just "sucking it up" and playing through some pain. If only it was that easy.
"There's a difference between feeling good out there and feeling balanced, which I never feel this year, and playing poorly and getting into it," Whitney said. "The difference between that and what I'm feeling in not even being balanced and not even being . . .
"So, it's like you're playing poorly but there's no end in sight because I'm going to be battling this, right, for the next little while. If you feel good out there and it's just timing, yeah, you give yourself time.
"But when you know you've got to get used to this, I've got to learn how to play like this . . . You know, you've got to learn, like, to cover guys different. It's almost like you've got to cheat in certain ways because you can't do certain things you've always been accustomed to doing. It's really tough to explain. I feel bad, but that's me doing my best."
Listen to Robin Brownlee Wednesdays and Thursdays from 3 p.m. to 5 p.m. on the Jason Gregor Show on TEAM 1260.
Whitney = Gord Kluzak
Later Dude, er Dud.
@Robin Brownlee
Sorry, I don't have time to go and find anything. I'm not good enough on the interwebs to find it quickly and I have too much work to do this week. Maybe in a couple weeks.
I know it isn't good enough for you but here is my recollection.
March 3, 2010 - trade made.
March 3 and 4, lengthy discussions about Tambellini and whether or not he performed his due diligence. Also discussion that Whitney has a birth defect - more due diligence talk.
March 4 or early march 5 - I remember specifically asking you if he was going to have a second surgery because there had been discussions about his first surgery correcting a defect and I asked if he would want to correct the other.
Your response was something along the lines of "good question - stay tuned because I have something on that".
March 5 - Your post telling us all that he was going to have another surgery.
Now, even if you don't accept what I remember as accurate in any way, my question to you is this:
Given that the need for the second surgery obviously predate the trade do you believe that with the information that Tambellini had, or should have had via due diligence, that injury problems were not predictable?
Robin I do recall shortly after Whitney was acquired, you posted that Whitney had foot issues, I don't recall at the time any other reporter mentioning this. It was the only time I ever heard of Whitney having problems up to that point. Your correct Robin there were no Red Flags. Whitney has been a model oiler bad foot or not. I'd take him even if he wants his feet cut off over Lubo...good person good teammate.
So is playing good or bad for the strengthening process?
I can't imagine the mental stress of having to consciously think about something that you have spent a lifetime conditioning your body to do instinctively.
He seems like a standup guy and I hope he totally heals. It would be a shame if he never got back to a level he was personally satisfied with.
Oilers (colliers) suck!!!!!! will never know how to say "playoffs" The Media and Organization only will make you fantsize. The same team owner will continue to make money....The team should be called " The Edmonton Excusers!!!"
Was that really worth it? I mean, really? However, I like the use of the word "fantsize". Made me chuckle.
If the tendonitis is a direct relation to the surgery that says to me that Whitney should not be skating. Rather he should be working with physiotherapists to strengthen and condition that foot/feet. Regardless of he wants to play or not. The man has a life after hockey. Life is a pain if your feet ain't working. Regardless of what I think the team needs we need to look at Whitney as a person first and go from there. Shut him down for the rest of the season. Recall Tuebert.Plan for next year. Trade Smyth and resign him in the summer. Send Hemsky somewhere where he can play relative minutes on a team that going to have a chance. Shop Bulin at the deadline. Shop Eager. Shop Belanger. Ryan Murphy step on down.
How many times do I have to write it ? Whitney is the most overrated dman in this league !! I hope he can recover from this and the Oilers can trade him while they have a chance. Bad trade at the time and still bad now.
That's my recollection as well.
I also remember that a poster at Lowetides who claimed to be a doctor mentioned that issue's like what Whitney had tend to be chronic problems.
BUY HIM OUT!
It wasn't too long ago that Browlnee ripped the hell out of me for saying that Lubomir would outscore Whitney on the remainder of their current contracts when the trade was made.
And then I suggested that Lubes would probably outscore Whitney on their next contracts assuming they were the same length. RB even quoted me in one of his articles, I felt special. But it looks like I'm gonna be right too, on both accounts.
It looks like the Oilers have patented the process of coming in last. It certainly bodes well for our future but it bloody well stinks when it is happening.
I'm wishing we had Ray Whitney over Ryan Whitney at this point. Heck, I'd rather have Ray over Hemsky. Over the past 7 years Ray has done more than Hemmer as well.
Dive for 5 is in full effect fellas.
Even a broken clock is right twice a day :p
@Jayamania
So, if Visnovsky outscores Whitney this over the term of the contract -- which hasn't happened yet -- because Whitney misses, say, 50 per cent of the games over that span because of injury, you're a genius?
Visnovsky has this season and next season before any new contract. He'll be 37 then and Whitney will be 30. In the end, it could turn out that you're "gonna" be right, but I doubt it.
By the way, a search of our archives returns several results for the name you have provided, but none that substantiate your version of what was said -- in fact, that we ever discussed Whitney. Perhaps you are mistaken. Or perhaps, given the tone of past comments, you're just looking for some attention from me. So, here it is.
Anything else?
@Ed in Mada
That is the problem with the oilers our next options suck. Whitney playing on that bad ankle has caused tendonitis. I think it is safe to say that almost any d-man is a better option then Peckham or Plante.
Not much sense playing Whitney in his present state if he remains ineffective . His condition may change within the year or maybe not till next year, if ever. He is still young enough to wait on till next season to see if he can rebound . It will take a long time before our defence is well rounded enough to think of letting him go elsewhere . It's not like we can trade him at this time for a fair market value of his contract . We have a very new , underskilled and inexperienced defence as it stands now' with or even without Whitney being 100% . Other older veterans are not doing the job either and most are playing very little or are in suspension . With Whitney never being 100% again , is he worth holding onto into the future ?
Our defensive core we cannot rely on due to questionable ability and still "green" newbies trying to make their mark . Musil, Klefbom and Marincin will push them all next season even though they may not still be ready -thats just how weak our defensive core is most nights .Teubert remains a question mark at this stage . Plante looks like another Penner project . Had Whitney remained healthy during his time here it would have been a good trade as it upgraded our size . We suffered more with the mishandling of Glencross ,and to another level with Souray . We have as yet not replaced the two of them adequately .
@Robin Brownlee
Sorry Brownlee, sometimes in the past I've posted using Jay or Jayamania. My bad.
My argument previously was that Whitney was never a big point producer in the past. He's had 1 big season. I just didn't see him putting up huge numbers in Edmonton like you predicted he would. That's why I didn't like the trade at the time.
Sure, Whitney surprised the hell out of me last year. It was awesome. But I'm worried now. His ankles appear to be made out of glass.
Fair enough - like I said I don't have time to look. Somebody at Lowetide said something about him never being the same player since his injury, but that isn't the same thing, so you're likely right about he timing.
The question I asked still stands though. As you just said - given that you found this out in 2 days do you believe this problem was predictable based on the information Tambellini should have had?
The issue isn't my recollection of events or the phrasing of my post - it's whether or not Tambellini was, or should have been, aware of the problem.
Even if nobody anywhere said anything until after you posted on the 5th it still doesn't make the outcome any less predictable. Tambellini didn't have to wait until the 5th.
You can't deny that everyone commented on the problem immediately after you revealed the issue, so what is Tambellini's excuse? He should have had the same information before he made the trade.
I remember Robin mentioned there was something passed along to a media member or two soon after the trade was made or when Ryans first Oiler injury occured last season. The issue was about a pre-existing foot condition.
Didn't think much of it at the time but i just laughed it off thinking...wouldn't it just be the Oilers luck.
With a definate lack of on ice leadership on this club most nights, the carnage we're witnessing must be the not so surprising result. Everyone's marching to the beat of their own drummer with nobody in charge.
Hemsky, Gagner, Petry, Gernat, First Round selection(2012 + 2013), 2nd Round Selection (2013 Ana's) to St.Louis for Pietranglo and Stewart... We need a Dependable depth RW behind Eberle and lord knows we need a top 4 d man. Make it happen Tambo!
If you're John Davidson, why would you make this deal. You may win the quantity war with a move like that but St.Louis is surely sending away the best players involved in that deal. St.Louis has been reloading for 5 yrs already as well, why would they be interested in futures, even if they are first rounders?
The Oilers best hope at moving out some of the quantity, not quality players is to let a team like Washington or Detroit back up their GMC Silverado to the dock doors and take what they want for playoff depth. If they aren't wearing 4,14,93 and 94 on their back, they should be available.
I don't mind RB pumping his own tires about being the first guy to question 6's durability just because it raises the question that if a reporter can do that in two days is it something the Oilers "brain":) trust also did before pulling the trigger?
I gotta give 6 credit for being upfront about how much more he'd like to do and I wish the best for him. Only things I would say is no one thinks or expects him to be as good as he was last year and he's giving himself a little too much credit for thinking his play has been 'average' this year.
It's been terrible.
I think the guy's a little better than 77 when healthy - and that's fine and acceptable by me - so it's not like I think he's forgotten how to play; for instance he still makes an outstanding first pass. But his skating's hindered to the point currently where he can't even cover his man in front. He's been awful and given the news on his health or lackthereof we might never see a 'worth the money whitney" over the duration of his Oilers contract.
@TigerUnderGlass
While it's Tambellini's responsibility to make himself familiar with past injuries and potential future health problems of any player he's interested in, I can see how this slipped by without red flags.
At the time of the trade, Whitney's first foot surgery was a couple years old and he'd had no further problems with it. He'd also, as I pointed out, played a full slate of games with Anaheim the season he was traded here, so there was no reason for Tambellini to ask the Ducks or his own pro scouts, "What's with these four games Whitney missed in November? What happened there?" Whitney played 81 of 82 games that year.
It turns out Whitney's other foot was causing him enough pain that he was considering having the same procedure as he'd had previously. He was happy with the results, so even though he wasn't missing any games, he was thinking about it. I don't know if Whitney mentioned discomfort or pain to anybody else, although I could understand him keeping quiet if he wanted out of Anaheim because he wasn't getting along with Carlyle. Bottom line, there were no obvious signs of a problem.
I chatted with Whitney upon his arrival here and asked him specifically about the previous foot surgery. I wanted to know if lingering effects from that played into the difficulty he'd had replicating his big season in Pittsburgh.
Because Ryan knew who I was from my years covering the Oilers and the NHL, he confided in me that he was considering having a second surgery. It wasn't for sure, but he was leaning that way because he'd obviously rather play pain-free and, like I said, it had worked out fine with the other foot.
That's when I wrote the item about the possibility of a second surgery -- I used no quotes and didn't say it was definitely going to happen, but I put it out there. The rest we know.
Bottom line: while there was a past medical history, there were no indications I can find we'd be looking at what we've got now. I get it why fans are upset at how it's turned out so far and that they want to point fingers, but they are doing so with the benefit of hindsight, which has been my argument all along.
And I'm still waiting on DSF.
@Robin Brownlee
This isn't entirely accurate. My being wrong about the timing of events changes nothing.
Here is the now corrected timeline:
*Oilers trade for Tambellini
*2 days later you point out he may need surgery again.
*People immediately begin pointing out that this is not going to go well as the condition is likely chronic.
In other words, the predictions of injury problems may not have come before the trade but they came as soon as the information was available. Information that Tambellini should have had. How is that hindsight?
Is there any chance we could put him on IR so that he can spend whatever time is required ( perhaps the whole year and the summer) rehabbing his foot? This way he would not count against the cap and we could go head hunting for a Suter like player?
It seems to me there is no point in him playing if it causes him physical pain and psychological issues around his performance. Based on his abilities, he is a good reclamation project......even if this means a year.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, as I'm doing this from memory of reading several articles - Whitney's second surgery was the same as the first - to correct his high arches that were birth defects and causing him pain. His current injury "tendonitis" is because he torn the tendon which may or may not have been caused by the high arch problem he had fixed.
So realistically he may have wrecked the ankle regardless of the previous surgeries, which means no one could have predicted he would tear a ligament.
Why the argument over who predicted what? Brownlee reported on the potential second surgery. Whitney is now unfortunately dealing with tendonitis because his repaired ligament isnt strong enough.
I give all the credit in the world to Whitney to telling us why his play has been bad this year.
They are the two best defenseman on arguable the worst defense in the league, they would be second pairing at best on a playoff team as for Petry and Peckham they would be better served playing bigger minutes without the worry of constantly giving the puck up in the AHL
I don't understand why you have to turn things confrontational when someone disagrees with you. I thought we were having an interesting conversation and suddenly I get Brownlee'd.
My original contention was that this has nothing to do with hindsight. Nothing I was mistaken about alters that contention. The point is that people predicted the medical problems before they became problems with the same information that Tambellini should have had available to him.
I didn't skip past anything, I admitted I was wrong. What else do you want? I ceded the point. Accept it and move on.
I'm aware of your explanation, however this does nothing to dispute the fact that many people assumed injury problems were imminent as soon as the defect came to light. None of us were yet aware of the birth defect prior to your article, but Tambellini should have been. With this information he should have been able to look into it.
You saw nothing risky, but I assume you never consulted a doctor. Did Tambellini consult a doctor? When has he done anything to make you believe due diligence is his strong suit? Perhaps I will ask a doctor his opinion, but without new information I have to assume that a defect like this exposes Whitney to all sorts of potential problems.
If you don't believe it was predictable, fine..but you can't blow off the fact that it was predicted, and came true, by a number of people. Even if the predictions came after your article 2 days later.
@michael
^^^^^ This!!
Well said :)
The deal was based on the information known to Tambellini. Did he know about the foot defect? He should have or he didn't do his job. Isn't this what everyone likes to say about LA's problem with the Fraser deal?
If he knew about it and consulted experts and decided with their advice to take the risk, then I will take it back.
I'm not dwelling on anything, all I did was take exception to the claim that this issue has anything to do with hindsight. Besides, what is the point of focusing on the positives? What stimulating conversation that would be.
Also...how will the defense sort itself out exactly? I am well aware of Lowe's 10 year timeline so I don't expect much, but if anyone thinks we are going to win a bunch of cups through nothing but the draft they are kidding themselves.
It's much easier to be patient when you believe your teams GM is competent. I do not believe Tambellini is competent.
I do hope Whitney can get through this though. I know what he feels like. On a lesser scale perhaps, but it didn't feel like less to me when I was going through something similar.
@Wanyes bastard child
Not really. You can only say "awesome" to each other so many times before it gets tiresome.
I want to talk about hockey, whether it be the on ice aspect or the executive aspect doesn't matter, but There is absolutely no point to devoting a website to having an I-Like-me-team circle jerk.
Besides, disagreement is only unpleasant if you get personal or take disagreement as personal. There is nothing inherently unpleasant in a conversation between divergent viewpoints. I usually prefer it.
Robin,
I don't usually agree with these two clowns, but DSF and Tigerunderglass are indeed correct to suggest that Lubo was and still is worth more than Whitney (due to his health issues). If there was any prior knowledge by Oiler Management of his birth defect and/or the possiblilty of a reoccurring health issue, then how can you argue Whitney over Lubo? Now, I did not have the inside information, but you did on this high arch issue and therefore it likely that Tambo did too. Hindsight is 20/20, but this deal wasn't a great one. If I had a bet, in 3 years, both players will be ex-NHLers.
Whitney's comments give a glimpse of how certain players are sensitive to perceptions about their salaries in comparison to the return their team is getting.
For a guy to talk openly about this, you know that when he IS healthy, he's going to give the team his very best.
I wish Ryan Whitney health and an even keel emotionally for the New Year.
That's funny because I almost never agree with DSF, which means you almost always agree with one of us clowns.