Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

[dabs eye]

That's why I read here. If anything'll pick you up on a Wednesday, it's reading about Souray's career slipping just a little closer to oblivion.

Enjoy what's left of the paydays, Shelly.

I am curious how Gagner is trending downward....

this post echoes my thoughts exactly.... bogosian is a tough, stay at home dman, sure... hell, he might even be a *good* tough, stay at home dman in a few years (he's not good right now by any means)... but these are the types of players you fill out your roster with - guys you pick up in the 2nd round... guys like peckham in a few years

you DO NOT trade career 0.8 PPG forwards who are 28 years old for these types of players (hemsky)... i don't run away from a hemsky for bogosian deal, i run away screaming at the top of my lungs and waving my arms

St. Louis has more good youthfull prospect talent than they know what to do with , but are low on veteran talent . They might be our best trade option if Hemsky , Horcoff or Penner available . L.A. same predicament as St. Louie with far too many good young talents on the prospect side of things . However , L.A . has far more veteran presence than St.Louie .

I look forward to what people like yourself say if/when he walks for nothing, or is extended and spends 40 games/year on the DL.

So far, he's only taking his lumps here, it usually takes the Oilers organization a year to catch up to the Oilersnation boards.

On this team he is untouchable. Do we have what he brings anywhere else in the system? Nope

Some commenters are miscasting Bogo as a defensive defenseman. He'd be our second best offensive weapon on the back end after Whitney. He's behind Byfuglien and Enstrom, getting little PP time, playing with the dregs and starting in his own zone 57% of his shifts.

In 2008-09 he was on pace for 16 goals. He's not Lidstrom but neither is he Volchenkov. Best case scenario? Shea Weber. edit- Not saying he'll be Weber but 90% of Shea MFin Weber is still a hell of a player.

If hemsky stopped using a g-dam field hockey stick he might have broken 30 goals, it's all those years of roller hockey, he refuses to use a real stick because he can't toe-drag at 100mph with a real blade. I've used one of his stick before in beer league, it's so light, it turned my stone-hands into the best deker out there, but the puck kept hopping over my blade, and i couldn't shoot. My passing was unreal tho

He also doesn't hold his stick right.

Any deal that starts at Hemsky +high pick and/or cheap solid developing prospect for Bogs is a deal I wouldn't be that excited to make.

You give me Bogs and I give you an even strength outscoring 1st line RW on a brilliant contract for two years - should be the end of that conversation.

I could see adding Smid if you were in turn recieving a decent forward prospect or 2nd round pick back. (buffers their win now defensive depth chart and RW) There could be a deal for Hemsky+ but that deal is a pretty big favour going ATL's way and needs a really solid repayment.

"but the puck kept hopping over my blade"

~ I'm pretty sure you were using Horcoff's stick. ~

I know this might seem sort of out there, but, I think the Oil should attempt to trade for Arnott. I'm not sure what we would need to give up for him, but a couple months of him showing the kids how to win faceoffs would probably be worth say Brule. Remember how quick the rest of the team's faceoff % improved when we brought in Peca at the deadline. Who knows, we might even be able to resign him in the off-season for cheap. I'm sure Lou would be happy to clear the cap space.

@ Chartleys

So you woudln't give up 100 games of Hemsky(in a time when Edmonton doesn't need to win) and a #4 dman for around 400 games of Bogosian? That seems like bad asset management for a team that doesn't expect to make the playoffs for 2 years. Or maybe we have very different expectations for Bogo.

Also Hemsky's low cap number is pretty much meaningless to Edmonton if they plan on keeping him. Edmonton has tons of caproom that they don't need for the next 100 games. His contract is NOT a reason for edmonton to keep him, only for others to want him more.

I know he is injured but is Parise untouchable in Jersey ? Man would he look good in Oiler silks. Just Dreaming.

I really do not like Bogosian. He has trended downwards every year he's played (offensively) and it seems like he isn't ready for the high end opposition that's been eating him up this year.

That's not to say he won't develop into the guy that people thought he would be, he's 20 after all, but I don't think it's a lock either.

For me it all comes down to cost. If I have to give up my best veteran player who is still under contract for next year PLUS more then it's a no go.

Hemsky can likely net a few prospects with less pedigree but who are just as likely to become the guys that Bogosian isn't yet either.

Can we slam Brian Burke for a while one day ? To me he is so overated as a GM. It looks like he is trying to undo his blatant mistakes somehow.

Oilers still have to get contract numbers down ,as well as contracts they have that strap them to many players they can't get anyone else to take over any route . Until they tackle those problems first , there is little if anything they can productively do to make base any better than it is now or down the road . Sizewise and waiver wire we are also strapped by same dilemmas . Clear up the space and open up the marketplace - then maybe we can talk about a proper rebuild . As it is, it can't happen . How many more years are we going to waste with this rebuild by not addressing our major problems , and how much of a decent core will be left ?

@csimpson

You seem to forget that we are not the team pushing for a deal. We are the sellers. The buyers are those teams that are willing to convert future potential into present. This comes at a price.

We are not dealing UFA's here. We are dealing a 1st line winger for the playoff push and another entire year. His value is pretty huge atm. You cannot go on the UFA market and sign Hemsky anywhere near his current pay grade.

LT, is your radio spot up on the site yet? I can't seem to find it.....great post btw. I am with the common sentiment of if bogo is available get him, but he penner or hemmer. Zona over at copper n' blue makes a case for weiss as well, which I would have no issue seeing either of those players in Oiler silks. Have to be a heck of a package to get'em both though....

First off, we disagree on Bogosian's current play and his potential going forward. I will concede that he's not a lock but he's already pretty darn good.

Second off, who out there fits your "just as likely to become the guys Bogosian isn't yet either"? Forbort Voynov etc don't fit that bill. Where do you see the kind of certainty in development that you've implied, much less getting "a few" of them for Hemsky?

Also,

Thanks for explaining that we have cap room. Not sure why this was needed but thanks...

His cap hit is nowhere near meaningless. Rather than taking say a Spezza I can have Hemsky and another ~3+ million dollar contract and be under the cap next season. That is huge value.

Trade Hemmer, bury smid somewhere in that deal too. Bogosian is worth it. We have to draft a defensemen like Ryan Murphy - (Kitchener Rangers.) He would fit in beautifully here. Also, there is no doubt in my mind that we are drafting Couturier(He had a Hatty last night) I also think guys like Lander, Pitlick, Hamilton, Hartikinan have a shot...

There was a tweet from a NHL executive today that stated Tambo was actively seeking Bogo and that either Penner or Hemsky were part of the deal. They obviously each have something the other wants now its just about the extras to finalize things. However, I think there is a slim chance of it happening because both sides think their players deserve more in return. I can't see Bogo being worth more than Hemsky right now but that's just me. Chances are Tambo would have to be on the short end and I don't think he's willing to do that.

While it's true that we aren't desperate to move Hemsky there's also a window for getting a great return, and it's closing. Hemsky's value is high right now and Edmonton is holding all the cards, but there also would be a bidding war if Bogo is actually available.

A team will have to beat LA's (hypothetical) Voynov+1st offer for Hemsky just the same as we would have to beat Boston's (hypothetical) Tor 1st + Colborne/Wheeler for Bogosian offer.

We can afford to refuse to overpay for one of the guys we really want(say bogo or BSchenn) but I'd rather suck it up and give up an extra asset, which have in spades anyway. There comes a time in a rebuild when you have to cash 20 nickels for a dollar bill. As for your second comment, do you think Edmonton will spend to the cap next year? Do you think they'll bring in high dollar UFAs for what will inevitably a 15-25 finish? Your theory is only true if that cap room will be better used for something else, which it likely won't.

I honestly have a tough time trying to come up with an exact package for a deal with the bruins. We have the pieces to essentially make them a huge favorite coming out of the East for the next two years just not sure on the appropriate value I'd expect in return.

I have next to zero interest in trading Hemsky, but Bogosian is one of the few players I'd be willing to move him for. I'd much rather have one Zach Bogosian than another package of picks and prospects like the one we got for Smyth.

Any one notice that Tyler Bunz is second in the WHL right now... Thought i would point that out.

Basically, what Im getting at is with Bogosian your paying for the name and the pedigree. I look at what he's done so far and I'm not falling in love with the player. Declining stats and questionable attitude (not even 21 and he wants out already?) and my own personal distrust of his potential. Those things combine to make me think the guy is just a tad overrated.

So what if instead of the Oilers shipping out their best vet for 1 guy with a questionable future they get multiple players with questionable futures.

If a Hemsky for Bogosian deal is made on July 5th after 4 days of the Oil failing to convince Hemmer to re-up then it's different. But you aren't just giving up 1 year of Ales, you're also giving up your opportunity to negotiate.

That said, whatever happens happens and I'm prepared for the worst. If Tambellini has done anything for me it's instill a sense that things can always get worse.

Csimpson

See I would love to see a bit of the opposite happen here. We have the cap room to get our house in order. I don't see the point to just dredging for another 2-3 years stockpiling more assests. I don't see the point really. I am ok cashing our chips with Penner and Hemsky to put pieces in play that are NHL capable (like Bogs) but I would prefer if that was followed by 1 to 2 year over pay contracts to fill out the roster and start moving forward. Collecting assets isn't neccesarily a bad move but that is something the calgary flames of the world are now starting. We have been at it for 5 years and need to make sure we are starting to head into the other side of the bell curve. Other than tolerating incompetent management, there isn't really a solid reason I can see to make zero effort to start turning things around a bit.

i can't imagine listening to Dithers talk about winning and not wanting to stand up and spit in his face. It's beyond asinine for him to be demanding effort and compete when he's done his damndest to handicap this roster and essentially that was acknowledged fact going into the year.

Dithers says: "now that we are assured a pick in the range we want, you guys should give 100% effort to end this now meaningless season."

I say: "fu buddy"

Hemsky + Peckham(Another bro for Atlanta) or Smid. For Bogosian and Atl 1st rnd pick. Seems fairly even?

Now that is a trade that I like, I think they would want hemsky a D man and a winger. I like the 1st round pick with Bogo. Could use ATL first pick and a low pick or a prospect at draft day to move up into a top 5 or 6 pick. That might make it possible to get a centre and a D man.

Sarcasm, right? Good luck with that.

IMO the only worthwhile assets worth trading Hemsky for would be Schenn, Bogosian, or Toronto's 1st, and each of these returning assets would include some level of risk.

As an Oiler fan I would not want to give a top 10 pick or a prospect with top 5 pedigree for a oft-injured 60-70 point guy, so I don't see any of these things happening from another team's perspective.

The only good thing about Hemsky's injuries is that he will probably re-sign here for good value, so I say sign him again and lock him up for the contending team, and please don't pull another Ryan Smyth for a few upside down cards deal.

The thing is, with some smarter management they could have that cup win and the majority of the team they had last year.

It would maybe be favorable for us to drop any extra contract(s) we can if you ask me . Peckham is expndable with Plante on the farm . Peckham one dimentional , but a defensive liability as far as i'm concerned - a sixth defenceman at best on any decent club down he line . However , i think Hemsky might be more valuable than Begosian and we need more out of that deal . Draft choices might be better for us than extra bodies with contracts as additional compensation for a Hemsky deal , unless we can dump an unneeded contract or two the other way .

It's all well and good to look for UFAs and be willing to spend but the fact is there aren't as many holes as people seem to think nor are there many good UFAs.

Holes next year (if we trade Hemsky and draft RNH/SC): 3Line RW, entire 4th line, top pairing Dman, #3Dman. Top pairing D is filled if we get Bogo. All the rest will cost something like 2 mil more than what we are spending.

Still leaves a bunch of unused cap dollars. Do the math, you'll see what I mean. Our youth guarantees easy cap management short term. So we're back to Hemsky's cheap salary being meaningless to Edmonton.

As for your point about not needing to gather assets ad infinitum, that was exactly my point. Turn nickels into dollars, overpay if you have to to get Conn Smythe-type prospects. All other holes have been filled.

LT: this heavy lifting thing, what does that mean exactly?

I mean;) we all know 77 does the same thing for the Oilers and we all know that guy is the worst kind of junk!

It's more Hemsky + Smid + 2nd for Bogosian and Atl 1st rnd pick (around 15 to 25 th) thats more likely!! but good trade overall!

If Lowe won't take Bogo for 89 then there's another reason for him to be fired.

Note: if anyone still believes Lowe doesn't pull Tambo's strings then go and rewatch the first episode of Oil Change and then get back to me.

The Oilers once deft eye for picking up D has lost some of it's ability but I don't think Lowe's even dumb enough to turn down a 89/Bogo deal.

My only question is, Do we have an Erik Gudbranson in the system? Do we have an Erik Gudbranson in the system? I rest my case.

Here is the only way I part with Hemmer, a proven top line player (our only one this year): Hemmer for Brayden Schenn Hemmer for Ryan Johansen Hemmer for Bogosian....no. Hemmer for a first round pick....no chance in Haiti. Eat that up, Lowetide you aging superstar.

Problem with that Boston trade is that it doesn't help Atlanta make the play-offs this year. Their in the market for a top 6 play making right winger to put them in the play-offs. If they don't get that player, they hold on to Bogosian and see what happens next year. You should also get at least a top 10 1st round pick plus a proven player for Hemsky and with draft being so weak this year I cannot see Edmonton making this trade. If I was going to trade for draft picks I would be asking for 2012 picks.

I'm sorry, what has Bogosian done to suggest he's more valuable than the Oilers highest scoring Centre?

He isn't scoring, he isn't a stalwart defensively, and he's fallen down their depth chart to the point being scratched at times this season.

Just outline for me all the reasons Bogosian has been a better NHL player than 89 and don't mention the future since both players are relatively the same age.

Not to hard to be Edmonton's highest scoring centers, Cogs, Horcoff, Fraser. That's like saying I wonder if we can get someone to take our second best goalie this year.

Good point. Bogosian sucks the same way Gilbert sucks. I hope Dudley sees it the same way, imagine the combined suck of Bogosian on the first and Gilbert on the second pariing. We could suck all the way to the Stanley. :)

Its a good point, but at some point the Oilers need to deal with the roster construction problems. They have lots small forwards.

Tambo needs to fill two holes. A first line centre and a #1 Dman. He can get either at the draft (Larsen, Couturier, RNH) with his first pick but obviously not both.

If he trades Gagner for Bogosian he then can pick the better of RNH or Courturier. Holes fixed, hopefully.

If he still has Gagner, it gets harder to take RNH and he still needs a #1 Dman.

I think that if the Oiler's get to pick whoever they want on draft day they will without a question take Courturier. He is 6'4" fair bit bigger RNH. The hit two key areas for the team size and the center position.

I think they will also need to decide between Gagner or Cogs. One will have to go and the other will have to be willing to play a third line center, maybe move up to second but not likely. In personal opinion I'm not sure that either of them will work due to size and style of play. Maybe if Cogs gets a scoring touch and face winning up high enough then it would make sense but Gagner doesn't play the best on defense and isn't great in the faceoffs either. Combine that with his lack of size and I think he is expendable on this team.

Defensively I think that Smid, Vandemeer, and Foster are all expendable as well. I'm not too sure about peckham yet. He has shown a lot of progress this year and it make me wonder what kind of player he will become. However I don't see him being more than a 5th or 6th defenseman which would also make him expendable. Its a lot easier to pickup bottom defenseman in trades or free agency plus I think we have other prospects that will likely be able to take his place.

Gilbert worries me as well. With his style of play you would like to see a guy that can put up points on the PP since he doesn't have a physical side to his game. He doesn't seem to be able to do that, I could see Petry or Chorney taking his place if they develop that way.

Just some thoughts

I think that the fan base of the Oilers has been very patient with the team and it's time that the Oilers start augmenting their vast array of picks and young prospects with young NHL'ers. If you compare Hemsky with Penner they are both around the same age and should be in or entering the prime of their careers. They have similar point totals except Hemsky has played about 14 less games this year. He is more dynamic, but often injured. Penner on the other hand breaks the mold of this team at 6-4 and 245. Hemsky probably gets you a better return, and by looking at the skill set of the younger players on the team, is a little more redundant. Bogosian could be a risk, but at the same time, I think that it would be worth the move. A weakness of the Oilers is on the blue line and you have a chance to bring in a guy who has the pedigree (there's that nasty word) and potential. His age is perfect to fit in with the core group of players. Get that #1 dman through aquisition, and then draft a centre (Couturier). Then bury Khabibulin in Europe.

Just curious, what good does it do to "bury Khabibulin in Europe"? That makes no sense to me. We would still be paying him his money (even if we dont get the cap hit... would we?) and cap isnt really an issue next year. By all means he could still work here as a backup. If we get rid of him we still have to bring someone else in anyways? I'm not a Habby fan but i dont see any point in doing anything that drastic next year.