Trade Target: Bogosian

Lowetide
February 16 2011 07:26AM

This is Zach Bogosian. 20-years old, he plays the toughest opposition available, has size and can handle himself. And he might be available.
 

Nick Kypreos has connections and a twitter account, plus he's an NHL Insider. When he tweets:

  • "Bogosian hasn't officially asked to be traded but it's been noted he's not happy and would like change of scenery by next season."

I start thinking about ways to get him on the roster. Nothing against Adam Larsson, but if the Oilers take him with their lottery pick this summer it will be followed by at least two or three years of development. Defensemen develop by sundial, history tells us that much. Bogosian's growing pains are already well underway and a true defenseman is coming out the other side.

How good is Bogosian? Well his boxcars this season (47gp, 4-7-11 -16)  aren't spectacular but he's not a one trick pony either. What does he do? He handles the heavy lifting in Atlanta, as this chart shows (chart here) and if he's available the Oilers have to take a look at it. imo.

I'm not suggesting the Oilers trade their lottery pick for Bogosian, but a package of picks and players might be enough to pry him from the Thrashers. 6.03, 205 and his scouting report shines:

  • Has great mobility. Owns a huge shot from the point and sound offensive ability. Is very aggressive and capable of shutting down opposing forwards.

That from HN.

C2a6955161684b5e3189319acfa5ebe4
Lowetide has been one of the Oilogosphere's shining lights for over a century. You can check him out here at OilersNation and at lowetide.ca. He is also the host of Lowdown with Lowetide weekday mornings 10-noon on TSN 1260.
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#151 kinnick kinnick
February 16 2011, 02:16PM
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Mark wrote:

Hemsky + Peckham(Another bro for Atlanta) or Smid. For Bogosian and Atl 1st rnd pick. Seems fairly even?

Sarcasm, right? Good luck with that.

IMO the only worthwhile assets worth trading Hemsky for would be Schenn, Bogosian, or Toronto's 1st, and each of these returning assets would include some level of risk.

As an Oiler fan I would not want to give a top 10 pick or a prospect with top 5 pedigree for a oft-injured 60-70 point guy, so I don't see any of these things happening from another team's perspective.

The only good thing about Hemsky's injuries is that he will probably re-sign here for good value, so I say sign him again and lock him up for the contending team, and please don't pull another Ryan Smyth for a few upside down cards deal.

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#152 madjam
February 16 2011, 02:34PM
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Dman09 wrote:

There was a tweet from a NHL executive today that stated Tambo was actively seeking Bogo and that either Penner or Hemsky were part of the deal. They obviously each have something the other wants now its just about the extras to finalize things. However, I think there is a slim chance of it happening because both sides think their players deserve more in return. I can't see Bogo being worth more than Hemsky right now but that's just me. Chances are Tambo would have to be on the short end and I don't think he's willing to do that.

It would maybe be favorable for us to drop any extra contract(s) we can if you ask me . Peckham is expndable with Plante on the farm . Peckham one dimentional , but a defensive liability as far as i'm concerned - a sixth defenceman at best on any decent club down he line . However , i think Hemsky might be more valuable than Begosian and we need more out of that deal . Draft choices might be better for us than extra bodies with contracts as additional compensation for a Hemsky deal , unless we can dump an unneeded contract or two the other way .

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#153 CSimpson18
February 16 2011, 02:35PM
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@chartleys

It's all well and good to look for UFAs and be willing to spend but the fact is there aren't as many holes as people seem to think nor are there many good UFAs.

Holes next year (if we trade Hemsky and draft RNH/SC): 3Line RW, entire 4th line, top pairing Dman, #3Dman. Top pairing D is filled if we get Bogo. All the rest will cost something like 2 mil more than what we are spending.

Still leaves a bunch of unused cap dollars. Do the math, you'll see what I mean. Our youth guarantees easy cap management short term. So we're back to Hemsky's cheap salary being meaningless to Edmonton.

As for your point about not needing to gather assets ad infinitum, that was exactly my point. Turn nickels into dollars, overpay if you have to to get Conn Smythe-type prospects. All other holes have been filled.

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#154 Quintana
February 16 2011, 02:36PM
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Mark wrote:

Hemsky + Peckham(Another bro for Atlanta) or Smid. For Bogosian and Atl 1st rnd pick. Seems fairly even?

It's more Hemsky + Smid + 2nd for Bogosian and Atl 1st rnd pick (around 15 to 25 th) thats more likely!! but good trade overall!

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#155 Dennis
February 16 2011, 02:39PM
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JeffG wrote:

Start negotiations with Sam Gagner for Bogosian. (might have to throw in a Petry)

If Lowe won't take Bogo for 89 then there's another reason for him to be fired.

Note: if anyone still believes Lowe doesn't pull Tambo's strings then go and rewatch the first episode of Oil Change and then get back to me.

The Oilers once deft eye for picking up D has lost some of it's ability but I don't think Lowe's even dumb enough to turn down a 89/Bogo deal.

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#156 Team Hall
February 16 2011, 02:42PM
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My only question is, Do we have an Erik Gudbranson in the system? Do we have an Erik Gudbranson in the system? I rest my case.

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#157 Team Seguin
February 16 2011, 02:43PM
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Here is the only way I part with Hemmer, a proven top line player (our only one this year): Hemmer for Brayden Schenn Hemmer for Ryan Johansen Hemmer for Bogosian....no. Hemmer for a first round pick....no chance in Haiti. Eat that up, Lowetide you aging superstar.

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#158 derrickhands
February 16 2011, 02:49PM
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CSimpson18 wrote:

While it's true that we aren't desperate to move Hemsky there's also a window for getting a great return, and it's closing. Hemsky's value is high right now and Edmonton is holding all the cards, but there also would be a bidding war if Bogo is actually available.

A team will have to beat LA's (hypothetical) Voynov+1st offer for Hemsky just the same as we would have to beat Boston's (hypothetical) Tor 1st + Colborne/Wheeler for Bogosian offer.

We can afford to refuse to overpay for one of the guys we really want(say bogo or BSchenn) but I'd rather suck it up and give up an extra asset, which have in spades anyway. There comes a time in a rebuild when you have to cash 20 nickels for a dollar bill. As for your second comment, do you think Edmonton will spend to the cap next year? Do you think they'll bring in high dollar UFAs for what will inevitably a 15-25 finish? Your theory is only true if that cap room will be better used for something else, which it likely won't.

Problem with that Boston trade is that it doesn't help Atlanta make the play-offs this year. Their in the market for a top 6 play making right winger to put them in the play-offs. If they don't get that player, they hold on to Bogosian and see what happens next year. You should also get at least a top 10 1st round pick plus a proven player for Hemsky and with draft being so weak this year I cannot see Edmonton making this trade. If I was going to trade for draft picks I would be asking for 2012 picks.

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#159 ricky p
February 16 2011, 02:56PM
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Not to hard to be Edmonton's highest scoring centers, Cogs, Horcoff, Fraser. That's like saying I wonder if we can get someone to take our second best goalie this year.

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#160 CSimpson18
February 16 2011, 03:02PM
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Dennis wrote:

LT: this heavy lifting thing, what does that mean exactly?

I mean;) we all know 77 does the same thing for the Oilers and we all know that guy is the worst kind of junk!

Good point. Bogosian sucks the same way Gilbert sucks. I hope Dudley sees it the same way, imagine the combined suck of Bogosian on the first and Gilbert on the second pariing. We could suck all the way to the Stanley. :)

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#161 Ducey
February 16 2011, 03:51PM
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Matt Henderson wrote:

I'm sorry, what has Bogosian done to suggest he's more valuable than the Oilers highest scoring Centre?

He isn't scoring, he isn't a stalwart defensively, and he's fallen down their depth chart to the point being scratched at times this season.

Just outline for me all the reasons Bogosian has been a better NHL player than 89 and don't mention the future since both players are relatively the same age.

Its a good point, but at some point the Oilers need to deal with the roster construction problems. They have lots small forwards.

Tambo needs to fill two holes. A first line centre and a #1 Dman. He can get either at the draft (Larsen, Couturier, RNH) with his first pick but obviously not both.

If he trades Gagner for Bogosian he then can pick the better of RNH or Courturier. Holes fixed, hopefully.

If he still has Gagner, it gets harder to take RNH and he still needs a #1 Dman.

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#162 Dman09
February 16 2011, 04:09PM
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@Ducey

I think that if the Oiler's get to pick whoever they want on draft day they will without a question take Courturier. He is 6'4" fair bit bigger RNH. The hit two key areas for the team size and the center position.

I think they will also need to decide between Gagner or Cogs. One will have to go and the other will have to be willing to play a third line center, maybe move up to second but not likely. In personal opinion I'm not sure that either of them will work due to size and style of play. Maybe if Cogs gets a scoring touch and face winning up high enough then it would make sense but Gagner doesn't play the best on defense and isn't great in the faceoffs either. Combine that with his lack of size and I think he is expendable on this team.

Defensively I think that Smid, Vandemeer, and Foster are all expendable as well. I'm not too sure about peckham yet. He has shown a lot of progress this year and it make me wonder what kind of player he will become. However I don't see him being more than a 5th or 6th defenseman which would also make him expendable. Its a lot easier to pickup bottom defenseman in trades or free agency plus I think we have other prospects that will likely be able to take his place.

Gilbert worries me as well. With his style of play you would like to see a guy that can put up points on the PP since he doesn't have a physical side to his game. He doesn't seem to be able to do that, I could see Petry or Chorney taking his place if they develop that way.

Just some thoughts

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#163 CitizenFlame
February 16 2011, 04:12PM
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I think that the fan base of the Oilers has been very patient with the team and it's time that the Oilers start augmenting their vast array of picks and young prospects with young NHL'ers. If you compare Hemsky with Penner they are both around the same age and should be in or entering the prime of their careers. They have similar point totals except Hemsky has played about 14 less games this year. He is more dynamic, but often injured. Penner on the other hand breaks the mold of this team at 6-4 and 245. Hemsky probably gets you a better return, and by looking at the skill set of the younger players on the team, is a little more redundant. Bogosian could be a risk, but at the same time, I think that it would be worth the move. A weakness of the Oilers is on the blue line and you have a chance to bring in a guy who has the pedigree (there's that nasty word) and potential. His age is perfect to fit in with the core group of players. Get that #1 dman through aquisition, and then draft a centre (Couturier). Then bury Khabibulin in Europe.

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#164 The Beaker
February 16 2011, 04:18PM
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@CitizenFlame

Just curious, what good does it do to "bury Khabibulin in Europe"? That makes no sense to me. We would still be paying him his money (even if we dont get the cap hit... would we?) and cap isnt really an issue next year. By all means he could still work here as a backup. If we get rid of him we still have to bring someone else in anyways? I'm not a Habby fan but i dont see any point in doing anything that drastic next year.

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#165 Steve Smith
February 16 2011, 04:19PM
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@The Beaker

We would still be carrying Khabibulin's cap hit. Long-term injured reserve is the only way we can get out of that; even if he retires, we still carry the cap hit.

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#166 Dman09
February 16 2011, 04:26PM
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I don't think the cap is of any concern for the remainder of his contract. One big reason I think it would be good to keep him around is to help develop the prospects. In his prime he was a great goaltender, he knows what it takes to become a stanley cup champion, and hes been through a lot of different situations throughout the league. I think he can still be a very useful asset.

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#167 RossCreekNation
February 16 2011, 04:26PM
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Fun thread. I think most people here know where I stand, since I posed the question on twitter - "Would you do Hemsky for Bogosian?" - and awoke the next day to find it as a legit rumor suddenly (lol).

In any case, I'm not sure ATL does Hemsky for Bogosian. Gagner & Smid, probably. And Tambellini/Lowe is/are idiots if they wouldn't do it. Nuff said. Aside from Hall, not sure there's a guy in the org you wouldn't trade for Bogosian. Point. Blank. Period.

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#168 Pajamah
February 16 2011, 04:30PM
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RossCreekNation wrote:

Fun thread. I think most people here know where I stand, since I posed the question on twitter - "Would you do Hemsky for Bogosian?" - and awoke the next day to find it as a legit rumor suddenly (lol).

In any case, I'm not sure ATL does Hemsky for Bogosian. Gagner & Smid, probably. And Tambellini/Lowe is/are idiots if they wouldn't do it. Nuff said. Aside from Hall, not sure there's a guy in the org you wouldn't trade for Bogosian. Point. Blank. Period.

Include Eberyay, and Paajarvi, and agreed.

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#169 The Beaker
February 16 2011, 04:39PM
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Steve Smith wrote:

We would still be carrying Khabibulin's cap hit. Long-term injured reserve is the only way we can get out of that; even if he retires, we still carry the cap hit.

Thats what I thought. All the more reason that there is no point in doing anything with Habby unless someone does something stupid and offers something for him (dreamland)

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#170 Master Lok
February 16 2011, 04:53PM
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If Bogosian is available, then I agree the oilers have to make an effort to trade for him. Would Gagner plus Smid be of interest for Bogosian?

This would allow the Oilers to draft either RNH or Couturier.

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#171 Ethan Kortbeek
February 16 2011, 05:14PM
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@db7db7db7

not gonna lie to you, the thought had crossed my mind...at least someone to help these guys along for a year would be nice to see...a lemeuix-crosby type relationship, without the touching though.

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#172 Quicksilver ballet
February 16 2011, 05:17PM
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Alan, can you go up one side and down the other on the possibility of the Oilers making a play for Gudbranson, do you have access to that Bronte5000 as well?

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#173 T.C.
February 16 2011, 05:32PM
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Still cheering for landeskog!!

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#174 Coco Crisp
February 16 2011, 05:41PM
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@Chris.

Because it is bland boring and old... suck on that one Chrisy boy

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#176 Steve Smith
February 16 2011, 06:17PM
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@Horcsky

I agree with your post's thesis, but disagree with your categorization of Hemsky. He is as effective as he is flashy, by the underlying numbers; he, Penner, and Horcoff are the only Oiler forwards who have shown themselves consistently able to handle tough opposition (when not themselves carrying boat anchors), though Hall and Eberle can almost be added to that category.

I don't know enough about Bogosian to know if trading Hemsky for him would be wise, but it's underselling the latter to imply that he's all, or even mostly, sizzle and no steak.

(And even Omark looks like he's no Rob Schremp in that department, at least at this early stage.)

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#177 pelhem grenville
February 16 2011, 06:23PM
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Lowetide wrote:

This is Death Metal Nightmare. :-)

... such a NightMary...what part of a signature lead when writing don't you get?

regards

dark & stormy night

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#178 Crackenbury
February 16 2011, 06:25PM
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RossCreekNation wrote:

Fun thread. I think most people here know where I stand, since I posed the question on twitter - "Would you do Hemsky for Bogosian?" - and awoke the next day to find it as a legit rumor suddenly (lol).

In any case, I'm not sure ATL does Hemsky for Bogosian. Gagner & Smid, probably. And Tambellini/Lowe is/are idiots if they wouldn't do it. Nuff said. Aside from Hall, not sure there's a guy in the org you wouldn't trade for Bogosian. Point. Blank. Period.

You're a little late to the party. I talked about Hemsky for Bogosian a week ago on this site and I doubt I was the first to talk about it. Get over yourself.

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#179 Crackenbury
February 16 2011, 06:30PM
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@Clyde Frog

Hemsky is not going to re-sign here. His focus is and always has been on himself and he doesn't like being thrust into the role of mentor to the kids. He's gone by the deadline.

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#180 Quicksilver ballet
February 16 2011, 06:43PM
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Looks like something could happen on this front sooner rather than later, according to Kypreos he's asked to be moved now.

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#181 OilFan
February 16 2011, 06:45PM
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Hemsky reminds me of marian gaborik? What was he worth? That's what Tambo should be thinking. Same style and injury history ? I don't think you get this type of player every day ? Trade a player like Hemmer for not a legit/proven player when you still have him signed for another season? Who cares about that other guys stats look at what the Oilers would be giving up, top line player PPG or close too. Oh yeah the rebuild, look at all the early first picks Gagner, Eberle, Hall etc but yet the Oilers management needs more picks, come on!!! This is a rebuild for ever not to win!!!! Look at all the first round picks the team has had, yet we are still to believe that we need the FIST pick two , three , four years in a row to win. When the season is done, which ever team wins I'll bet they never had to have the FIST pick TWO times in a row!!!!

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#182 Steve Smith
February 16 2011, 06:47PM
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@OilFan

Your keyboard's broken.

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#183 a lg dubl dubl
February 16 2011, 06:54PM
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if hemsky does get traded to ATL we'll get to see what he can do in a different jersey come saterday.

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#184 RossCreekNation
February 16 2011, 07:01PM
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Crackenbury wrote:

You're a little late to the party. I talked about Hemsky for Bogosian a week ago on this site and I doubt I was the first to talk about it. Get over yourself.

Ahahahaha, yeah okay pal.

http://oilersnation.com/2011/2/7/gdb-530-oilers-dont-have-an-arnie/page/2#comments

Start on the 2nd page. This is far from the first time I have mentioned it. And OB1 brought up Bogosian's name here long before anyone else.

Also, first paragraph...

http://www.coppernblue.com/2011/2/9/1982347/oilers-potential-trading-partners-rangers-thrashers-blackhawks

Late to the party... pfffft.

Quick search shows you mention him here:

http://oilersnation.com/2011/2/12/taylor-hall-road-warrior

Get over yerself.

#internetbeef

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#185 Crackenbury
February 16 2011, 07:08PM
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RossCreekNation wrote:

Ahahahaha, yeah okay pal.

http://oilersnation.com/2011/2/7/gdb-530-oilers-dont-have-an-arnie/page/2#comments

Start on the 2nd page. This is far from the first time I have mentioned it. And OB1 brought up Bogosian's name here long before anyone else.

Also, first paragraph...

http://www.coppernblue.com/2011/2/9/1982347/oilers-potential-trading-partners-rangers-thrashers-blackhawks

Late to the party... pfffft.

Quick search shows you mention him here:

http://oilersnation.com/2011/2/12/taylor-hall-road-warrior

Get over yerself.

#internetbeef

What was hard to understand about what I said. I said I already mentioned it and that I wasn't the first to do so. I'll try to keep it more simple for you in the future.

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#186 Oilcruzer
February 16 2011, 07:09PM
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Matt Henderson wrote:

I'm sorry, what has Bogosian done to suggest he's more valuable than the Oilers highest scoring Centre?

He isn't scoring, he isn't a stalwart defensively, and he's fallen down their depth chart to the point being scratched at times this season.

Just outline for me all the reasons Bogosian has been a better NHL player than 89 and don't mention the future since both players are relatively the same age.

Bogo or Alex Pietrangelo would be good pieces to pick up. Pietrangelo has been moved up slowly. He's bigger too.

Bogo bugs me because he was 3 overall, behind Doughty, and not remotely in his class... trending downward, and Byfu blows by him year one in a new position.

Hemsky straight across for either? TOO rich. Whoever made the Gaborik comparison, hit that mark well though. Tons of talent, but fragile.

Don't be quick to drop Smid... there's too many Staios players but not a lot of Smids to quietly accept their role from 3 - 6.

Edit: Funny how two letters turns Staios into Stamkos

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#187 Dennis
February 16 2011, 07:13PM
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I like 89 as much as the next guy but he doesn't project to be a great centre and we've got lots of young talented kids and young Bogo has a great pedigree.

and if we pick him up in a trade like this then we can draft a centre come june.

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#188 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
February 16 2011, 07:15PM
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Horcsky wrote:

I like Hemsky too, but sadly I've come to realize that "lift (me) out of (my) chair" has little to do with results and solid hockey players. These sentimental feelings definitely get in the way of good analysis of players by us as fans, and I can only hope it doesn't cloud the GM's judgment too.

Case in point, I'd take Horcoff, Penner, and Gilbert over Hemsky, Peckham, and Linus Omark. The former aren't flashy, but they are effective more games than not. Hemsky and Omark are certainly flashy, but they aren't giving you the solid hockey you need every game. Though most wouldn't call Teddy Peckham flashy, his ability to deliver big hits gives him that wow-factor that fans love, but he's no Gilbert . . . yet.

I guess my point is that most fans would take my latter group over the first one, but I think they'd be wrong.

Agreed 100%

You'd think a fan base that watched Ryan Smyth scratch and claw for goals for so many years would realize that flashy doesn't always mean effective.

That said, Hemsky is both flashy and effective

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#189 Crackenbury
February 16 2011, 07:15PM
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Steve Smith wrote:

It's funny, because you tell somebody to get over himself, then immediately post that. The unintentional humour: it's why I come here. Well, that and the trolling. And Willis (and LT, though I get plenty of him elsewhere).

I posted something similar about Hemsky a week ago. At the time I said it would be within a week that Hemsky wanting out would be news. Stay tuned.

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#190 RossCreekNation
February 16 2011, 07:19PM
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@Crackenbury

I could care less who brought it up first, BUT, you insinuated that you brought it up before me (which you didn't), soooo... I called bullshit. And showed you why. Done and done. I brought it up before you, na na na boo boo.

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#191 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
February 16 2011, 07:25PM
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RossCreekNation wrote:

Ahahahaha, yeah okay pal.

http://oilersnation.com/2011/2/7/gdb-530-oilers-dont-have-an-arnie/page/2#comments

Start on the 2nd page. This is far from the first time I have mentioned it. And OB1 brought up Bogosian's name here long before anyone else.

Also, first paragraph...

http://www.coppernblue.com/2011/2/9/1982347/oilers-potential-trading-partners-rangers-thrashers-blackhawks

Late to the party... pfffft.

Quick search shows you mention him here:

http://oilersnation.com/2011/2/12/taylor-hall-road-warrior

Get over yerself.

#internetbeef

I liked that Jones fellow before the season started as well ;0

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#192 Steve Smith
February 16 2011, 07:37PM
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@Crackenbury

Double post.

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#193 Steve Smith
February 16 2011, 07:37PM
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@Crackenbury

You are bad at the following things:

1. Avoiding unintentional irony.

2. Getting over yourself.

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#194 Horcsky
February 16 2011, 07:39PM
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@Steve Smith

You're right that I wasn't being fair to Hemsky, I was reaching a bit to emphasize my point.

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#195 Crackenbury
February 16 2011, 07:39PM
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RossCreekNation wrote:

I could care less who brought it up first, BUT, you insinuated that you brought it up before me (which you didn't), soooo... I called bullshit. And showed you why. Done and done. I brought it up before you, na na na boo boo.

The real point I meant to make was regarding your statement "I think most people here know where I stand, since I posed the question on twitter - "Would you do Hemsky for Bogosian?" - and awoke the next day to find it as a legit rumor suddenly (lol)"

You think you prompted this article and the start of this as a legit rumor because of your tweet? Is the (lol) supposed to make you sound clever. It so, it didn't work.

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#196 Tradebot 2011
February 16 2011, 07:44PM
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We need a top D and a top C. We have some tradeable assets. Hemmer, Penner, one of Cogs/Gags, our 2nd pick (31st) and Jones (sell high, won't repeat with this shoot% and is a relatively replaceable player). Two option:

LA Schenn C, Forbort D, for Hemmer, Cogs or 31st pick, Jones and then draft the top forward in RNH or SC

one hole added - three filled

or

LA Schenn for Hemmer + swap seconds + T Hark (even though i like the guy) ATL Bogo for Gagner + Jones and then draft the top forward in RNH or SC

one hole added - three filled.

We have 2 needs and one draft pick. Therefore by default we need to find a way to trade a player and try to fill two holes with that trade/trades. Hemmer fits that bill.

Penner + to BOS for TO pick is on draftbots radar.

Personally i like option one. Forbort over Bog as we gamble a bit more but give up less. We blow, so we can gamble/wait more than these teams who need to win more now.

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#197 RossCreekNation
February 16 2011, 07:45PM
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@Crackenbury

Actually, I meant most people here BECAUSE I BROUGHT IT UP HERE FIRST, before taking it to twitter.

And I never said I started this as a legit rumor... somebody else said I did:

http://www.coppernblue.com/2011/2/9/1982347/oilers-potential-trading-partners-rangers-thrashers-blackhawks

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#198 Crackenbury
February 16 2011, 07:53PM
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RossCreekNation wrote:

Actually, I meant most people here BECAUSE I BROUGHT IT UP HERE FIRST, before taking it to twitter.

And I never said I started this as a legit rumor... somebody else said I did:

http://www.coppernblue.com/2011/2/9/1982347/oilers-potential-trading-partners-rangers-thrashers-blackhawks

Alright, I'm just being an a$$hole and you are a Flames fan afterall. I couldn't help myself.

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#199 RossCreekNation
February 16 2011, 07:57PM
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@Crackenbury

See. The truth shall set you free. Peace, my friend.

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#200 Rogue
February 16 2011, 08:03PM
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Crackenbury wrote:

Alright, I'm just being an a$$hole and you are a Flames fan afterall. I couldn't help myself.

Right on!!!

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