Hemmer!!

Lowetide
February 18 2011 07:49AM

This is Ales Hemsky. Despite clear and obvious skills, he is another player that leaves the fanbase divided. Some see him as an electric offensive talent, others see him as a turnover machine whose plodding decision making impacts every powerplay.
 

Oilers Nation has done this forever, by the way. I well remember Paul Coffey hearing the boobirds at Northlands in a game he was dominating against Chicago and Murray Bannerman. Slats had just gone public about money and contract, with the smooth skating offensive defenseman becoming public enemy number one on a team so talented observers were spoiled at puck drop.

People used to call Hemsky "no balls" (actually it was Kyle Woodlief from Redline report) but that bias is long gone and any fool can see #83 is fearless to the point of routinely putting himself in real danger. His list of injuries reflect that tendency to take on challenges that a lesser man would avoid at all costs.

The Oilers powerplay is addled, it's been that way since Hemsky arrived (with some exceptions). I tend to blame the coaching staff but do understand that we as fans point the finger at the most talented offensive players. I sometimes think that PP failure--along with the turnovers at the opposition blue--are the real reasons so many people are anti-Hemsky.

Hemsky's 5x5 numbers (equal strength) have always been a strength:

  • 06-07 5x5 per 60m: 2.09
  • 07-08 5x5 per 60m: 2.36
  • 08-09 5x5 per 60m: 2.08
  • 09-10 5x5 per 60m: 2.85

  • 10-11 5x5 per 60m: 3.08

That number--the 10-11 number, ranks him 5th in the entire league. The chart is here. My thanks to Oiler Mag for pointing it out.

If Steve Tambellini does trade Hemsky, he needs to get exceptional value in return.

C2a6955161684b5e3189319acfa5ebe4
Lowetide has been one of the Oilogosphere's shining lights for over a century. You can check him out here at OilersNation and at lowetide.ca. He is also the host of Lowdown with Lowetide weekday mornings 10-noon on TSN 1260.
Avatar
#101 Archaeologuy
February 18 2011, 02:35PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

@Peterborough

Who rates the players on HF? I am relatively unfamiliar with their process and who ultimately decides what ratings prospects get.

I would say that, cautiously, I wouldnt put more stock into those lists than I would RossCreek coming up with the list.*

I think the way the market is shaping up, a 2nd rounder for Vandermeer is something the team can ask for to start. I think 2nd is the high point, but someone might actually be willing to do it. (I'm looking at you Montreal)

*Keep in mind that I respect RC and carefully consider the things he writes but do not take them as Gospel Truth either.

Avatar
#102 Mouse
February 18 2011, 02:36PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers
madjam wrote:

Tams GM resume is only with Oilers as i recall . He was an assistant only before that . I find little in his Oiler time to show me he has been a good GM . Look at our and his results since he was hired here and his record of dealings and i don't see any positive ground being made in his time here . The openings for our youth was coming irregardless of gutting or not . Our emerging youth was simply the best of what we had left from basement team . Nothing brilliant about what was inevitable anyways . Show me any trade , etc . where he got the best of deal for i don't see one . Don't underestimate some of these ON people intelligence by calling them morons playing GM roles . Some are pretty smart and probably would do a better job in a lot of areas . If your a good GM you should have the positive results to show them - so far Tams does not .

What is asinine is expecting to turn everything around in one fell swoop. You can't just get rid of everybody at once and turn around in one day. Even if you get rid of everybody, who says the replacements are going to be better. You have to find someone to trade with first and then get a reasonable return. And you can't say there are lots of players they could bring in out there if everyone was gone, because most don't want to come to a losing team in the first place.

I am not a ST supporter, but the constant "he's incompetant" calls are very tiresome and inaccurate. Again I am not saying he's great or anything, but he is far from incompetant. Compare his approach to Burke who is full of action, but goes out and mortgages the club and in all reality puts their team back a year or two or more in the process.

Best deal for trades: Whitney for Visnovsky (less cap hit, similar production at the time on a bad team with no powerplay, younger), Steve Staios for anything, Jim Vandermeer for O'sullivan off the top of my head.

Avatar
#103 TigerUnderGlass
February 18 2011, 02:36PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
oil90 wrote:

HAHAAAAAAAAAAAAA Madjam thats a good laugh. "Don't underestimate some of these ON people intelligence by calling them morons playing GM roles . Some are pretty smart and probably would do a better job".

I'm not debating some of the great comments people leave here. Some people are clearly very intelligent. But saying guys on this blog (I'm assuming you lump yourself in that category) could just step right into Tambo's shoes and do a better job. Don't be ridiculous. This isn't Xbox Fantasy GM Mode.

Think you could probably crack the Oilers 4th line too? Since you got 4pts in beer league last week and are in killer shape.

I almost never agree with madjam, but you are missing the point.

There is far more to assembling a team than picking out the players you want and sending them out to play.

You need to understand how to manage the team financially. How to manage the cap. You need to understand contracts. Contract negotiations. Trade negotiations. You need to deal with the players union and have at least a cursory understanding of the pertinent labour laws. You need to coordinate with operations management. You need to know how to appoint, and make proper use of, quality support staff. You need to develop and maintain relationships. You need an awareness of the requirements of corporate sponsors and an ability to satisfy them at times without hampering your own effectiveness.

Plus dozens of other things that didn't occur to me on the spot.

I guarantee that, aside from deciding which players are better than others and the existence of his previous NHL relationships, there are multiple people that post here from time to time who could do a better job than Tambellini at almost everything else. The team has been caught clueless too many times under this administration for it to be a coincidence...and we are talking basics, like not knowing which players are waiver eligible, or failing to obtain a medical history before making a trade or signing a player. Inexcusable.

I still have absolutely no idea what qualifications Tambellini had for the job before being hired. Why do I have to give him the benefit of the doubt? Are you suggesting that Lowe couldn't have made a mistake when he hired Tambellini?

Avatar
#104 David S
February 18 2011, 02:37PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers

Ahhhh...here we go again...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYeLishJ_Js

Avatar
#105 John Chambers
February 18 2011, 02:39PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

You definitely cannot ignore the value of a guy who consistently puts up points on a team that has tremendous difficulty scoring.

The only way I deal Hemsky in February, 2011 is for a top-shelf prospect (Schenn, Seguin, or Carlson) as the basis of the deal. Boston's TO pick may also qualify as a starter.

Even if Hemsky refuses to re-sign after July 1, he's still likely to hold enough value to return secondary prospects (the Voynov's, Forbort's, Blum's, etc) plus a first at this point next year.

Building chemistry with his young teammates and getting him re-signed should be ST's priority.

Avatar
#106 TigerUnderGlass
February 18 2011, 02:43PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

@Mouse

Nobody expects things to turn around in "one fell swoop" but some people do expect evidence that there might be a plan. Have you seen anything to suggest a plan other than torch-the-earth-and-draft high?

Avatar
#107 TigerUnderGlass
February 18 2011, 02:44PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
David S wrote:

Ahhhh...here we go again...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYeLishJ_Js

You're welcome.

Avatar
#108 Archaeologuy
February 18 2011, 02:49PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Brewer to Tampa as per TSN, not sure on return.

Come on Tambi, the action is heating up, get in there and make the move that will define your Reign as Hockey Czar in Edmonton.

This move definitely puts pressure on Montreal to up their D-Corps.

Avatar
#109 geoilersgist
February 18 2011, 02:52PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers
fatso wrote:

I say trade Penner he's slow and does'nt use his size like a big man should.

Now if hemmer is gone where does horcoff and Penner get there points from lol.

Just wondering if you watched Penner play at all last year?

Avatar
#110 John Chambers
February 18 2011, 02:53PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers

@TigerUnderGlass

It's difficult to evaluate GMs on the small things they do, and much easier to measure the impact of franchise-transforming moves.

Like everyone who participates in this blog, I'm observing ST with a degree of curiosity and skepticism. I'll form a more solid opinion after July 1 once we'll have observed what he's done to influence the makeup of this team long term.

I think at this point it's too early to unequivocally grade Tambellini. He's done good things by re-building the farm system, obtaining Jones for nothing, and getting rid of underperforming veterans.

But it's how he handles Penner and Hemsky, the development of our young core, and the acquisition of veterans to complement our existing talent that will make me a fan or a critic.

ST's pedigree is very good. He has a lot of professional experience in the NHL, and has worked alongside Pat Quinn, Brian Burke, and Dave Nonis. How he translates that experience into success on the ice we shall soon see*

*soon meaning 24-36 months

Avatar
#111 Mouse
February 18 2011, 02:54PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
TigerUnderGlass wrote:

Nobody expects things to turn around in "one fell swoop" but some people do expect evidence that there might be a plan. Have you seen anything to suggest a plan other than torch-the-earth-and-draft high?

Do you expect him to share his plan with you? I would hope there is a plan in place, but am also realistic enough to know they aren't going to broadcast it for all to listen. I am also realistic enough to know that it will be a slower process to clean up and reshape the org. Further, I wouldn't trust anything that comes out of Souray's mouth, everything he did was self serving. The problem is Tambo doesn't say anything so it's hard to get a read on him (which i think also prompts the madjam's of the world to think he's incompetant).

I do think letting people develop and only surround them with the proper talent when the time is right is a good plan even if it sucks in the meantime. I would think after this draft though it is time to bring in some more stability, cause the cupboard is pretty full. The trade deadline and moves made before next year will unveil more of the plan.

What is really needed is stability, so before next year, if ST is not the right guy, they have to find one quickly. I feel a revolving door at the top will turn us into the Islanders. Katz is no dummy, I would think the "plan" would be revised and evaluated at a few points in the year to ensure progress is whree it is supposed to be and have action plans to fix it if it is off course.

Avatar
#112 John Chambers
February 18 2011, 02:55PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Archaeologuy wrote:

Brewer to Tampa as per TSN, not sure on return.

Come on Tambi, the action is heating up, get in there and make the move that will define your Reign as Hockey Czar in Edmonton.

This move definitely puts pressure on Montreal to up their D-Corps.

Can everyone please shower me in abuse when I suggest we should trade Souray to Montreal?

Avatar
#113 Mouse
February 18 2011, 02:55PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

@John Chambers

Completely agree. props.

Avatar
#114 Harlie
February 18 2011, 03:04PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
David S wrote:

Ahhhh...here we go again...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYeLishJ_Js

The Dude: Look, nothing is fugged, here, man.

The Big Lebowski: Nothing is fugged? [shouting]

The Big Lebowski: The god damn plane has crashed into the mountain!

Avatar
#115 TigerUnderGlass
February 18 2011, 03:05PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
John Chambers wrote:

It's difficult to evaluate GMs on the small things they do, and much easier to measure the impact of franchise-transforming moves.

Like everyone who participates in this blog, I'm observing ST with a degree of curiosity and skepticism. I'll form a more solid opinion after July 1 once we'll have observed what he's done to influence the makeup of this team long term.

I think at this point it's too early to unequivocally grade Tambellini. He's done good things by re-building the farm system, obtaining Jones for nothing, and getting rid of underperforming veterans.

But it's how he handles Penner and Hemsky, the development of our young core, and the acquisition of veterans to complement our existing talent that will make me a fan or a critic.

ST's pedigree is very good. He has a lot of professional experience in the NHL, and has worked alongside Pat Quinn, Brian Burke, and Dave Nonis. How he translates that experience into success on the ice we shall soon see*

*soon meaning 24-36 months

Fair enough, but I'd like to point out that it is the small things that separates the good GMs from the bad ones.

He does still have the chance to change my mind obviously, but until he does something major we all have to base our opinions on presumptions. Based on what he has done to date I cannot presume that he will act competently making big moves when he has largely acted incompetently making small ones.

Avatar
#116 TigerUnderGlass
February 18 2011, 03:11PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Mouse wrote:

Do you expect him to share his plan with you? I would hope there is a plan in place, but am also realistic enough to know they aren't going to broadcast it for all to listen. I am also realistic enough to know that it will be a slower process to clean up and reshape the org. Further, I wouldn't trust anything that comes out of Souray's mouth, everything he did was self serving. The problem is Tambo doesn't say anything so it's hard to get a read on him (which i think also prompts the madjam's of the world to think he's incompetant).

I do think letting people develop and only surround them with the proper talent when the time is right is a good plan even if it sucks in the meantime. I would think after this draft though it is time to bring in some more stability, cause the cupboard is pretty full. The trade deadline and moves made before next year will unveil more of the plan.

What is really needed is stability, so before next year, if ST is not the right guy, they have to find one quickly. I feel a revolving door at the top will turn us into the Islanders. Katz is no dummy, I would think the "plan" would be revised and evaluated at a few points in the year to ensure progress is whree it is supposed to be and have action plans to fix it if it is off course.

1. Right. My suggesting that if there was a plan it would be evident is definitely the exact same thing as expecting him to hold a press conference announcing the details of a plan.

2. I'm pretty sure I said that I wasn't expecting a quick turnaround.

The point is that if Tambellini had a plan it should be fairly obvious what that plan is. It's not like you can hide what moves you are making.

As far as I can tell his plan is to evaluate, do nothing, and then hope the draft picks turn into a well rounded roster. Suggesting that we cannot see what the plan might be because it is some sort of franchise secret is inane.

Avatar
#117 Fresh Mess
February 18 2011, 03:11PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

And meanwhile ST assesses while all his potential trading partners feel their needs by trading with more active GM's.....

Ian White to the Sharks for a 2nd round pick...

Avatar
#118 Dennis
February 18 2011, 03:14PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Archaeologuy wrote:

I think many posters have hit the nail on the head. It's going to take a huge return to pry Hemsky out of Edmonton this season. The return that teams are getting already for players a tier below Hemsky is already high, and the Oil are not in a position where they need to sell (as they would be next year).

The starting point for a team like LA SHOULD be Schenn +++ because as many have already asked, how does trading Hemsky now make the Oil a better club? This team should not be accepting players like Nilsson who failed to reach potential in NYI even before he was moved to EDM. It's blue chippers or nothing.

I'm a huge Hemsky fan, but I get the gut feeling that his departure is inevitable. If that's the case then an overpayment is the only acceptable return.

Say no to Bogo

Lowe couldn't get Okposo for 94 and he couldn't get Getzlaf or Perry for Chris Pronger so I doubt he can get Schenn for 83.

Lowe gets drilled in the big deals so let's see him win one before we believe he can.'

He's on a hitless streak since he somehow managed to get Pronger out of Stl.

Avatar
#119 Dennis
February 18 2011, 03:15PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Hack The Bone wrote:

I'm in favour of selling high with Hemsky, unless he's expressed a strong desire to stay long term. The ideal "sell high" deal would be something like:

Hemsky and Jones for

Schenn, Forbort and Simmonds.

LA can afford it, but it's a steep price...the way it should be.

as much as I love 83 I would make this deal and I think it would be an overpay by the Kings.

Avatar
#120 John Chambers
February 18 2011, 03:16PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
2
cheers

@TigerUnderGlass

I kind of hate Tabellini, especially after this 5-6 years before we're competitive business, but it's only a small-time hate. You have what someone might call a big-time, or deluxe-sized hate.

If he fleeces another GM for some quality young stud, re-signs Hemsky and Penner to twin 5-year 12.5M extensions*, or nails Paris Hilton, I'll probably like him. Not like him enough to have him over for dinner or hang a picture up in my locker, but have genuine respect for the man.

If, as I think you're forecasting, he deals away our best players for guys named Brock Beukeboom, or thinks I have the patience to wait 6 years before we make the playoffs again, I take several gallons of gasoline over to La Casa ST and burn the place down**.

We'll see.

*Not likely to happen

**Somewhat likely to happen

Avatar
#121 Peterborough
February 18 2011, 03:19PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Archaeologuy wrote:

Who rates the players on HF? I am relatively unfamiliar with their process and who ultimately decides what ratings prospects get.

I would say that, cautiously, I wouldnt put more stock into those lists than I would RossCreek coming up with the list.*

I think the way the market is shaping up, a 2nd rounder for Vandermeer is something the team can ask for to start. I think 2nd is the high point, but someone might actually be willing to do it. (I'm looking at you Montreal)

*Keep in mind that I respect RC and carefully consider the things he writes but do not take them as Gospel Truth either.

not sue on their credentials but they seem on par with what others have people at mostly.

montreal has traded away their 2nd picks for this year in the Moore and the, now injured, Wiz. maybe we could get their 2012 2nd pick? Its a stronger draft anyways.

Avatar
#122 Dennis
February 18 2011, 03:27PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Dan the Man wrote:

So Burke has bailed on his quick rebuild plan and not only that he also gave up a draft pick for a player (Voros) that he could have claimed off of waivers for nothing a couple of days earlier.

I'm pretty sure he has no clue what he's doing and people think Tambellini is incompetent.

well it's always gonna be fun to make fun of Burke:) but I'm more concerned how Lowe's puppet is gonna make out: the same guy who was passed over for GM TWICE by his old org.

Let's see Tambo or Lowe win a big trade and then we can believe in them.

and before anyone starts crowing about Whitney again let's check the GP and injury history.

Avatar
#123 Bucknuck
February 18 2011, 03:45PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

@Dennis

he did manage to get Eberle in that trade with ANA (via the 1st rounder).

Avatar
#124 TigerUnderGlass
February 18 2011, 03:46PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

@John Chambers

thinks I have the patience to wait 6 years before we make the playoffs again

I think this is the more likely of the two.

Funny thing is, I don't know yet if I hate him or not because he refuses to do anything of consequence.

I just have a problem when people assume than since he has the job he must be qualified, as though everybody ever hired as GM of an NHL team has been qualified.

Avatar
#125 TigerUnderGlass
February 18 2011, 03:47PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Dennis wrote:

Lowe couldn't get Okposo for 94 and he couldn't get Getzlaf or Perry for Chris Pronger so I doubt he can get Schenn for 83.

Lowe gets drilled in the big deals so let's see him win one before we believe he can.'

He's on a hitless streak since he somehow managed to get Pronger out of Stl.

Not only that but when he did have Perry...

Avatar
#126 Archaeologuy
February 18 2011, 03:48PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Dennis wrote:

Lowe couldn't get Okposo for 94 and he couldn't get Getzlaf or Perry for Chris Pronger so I doubt he can get Schenn for 83.

Lowe gets drilled in the big deals so let's see him win one before we believe he can.'

He's on a hitless streak since he somehow managed to get Pronger out of Stl.

1) Smyth was a rental. Hemmer is not

2) Pronger demanded out and put the Oil in a very weak position. Hemmer has not.

Those two deals were completely different because the Oilers were in the weakest position. At the deadline of 2012, the Oil can settle for the returns you describe in the other deals.

There is no reason to settle for those things at the deadline 2011. Hemsky is still under contract for next season and has not demanded to be traded (at least that I know of).

So if there's no reason to accept lesser returns then why not start the bidding high? There is no reason for the Oilers to trade Hemsky to any team right now. So if they want him they need to pay to get him.

If youre accepting crap for him now in a position of strength, what are the other GMs going to offer you when you dont have the upper hand later?

Avatar
#127 Pressure
February 18 2011, 03:49PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers
Oilnutz wrote:

Oh Hemsky you are suck a god...

Sorry guys. Hemsky is hugely overrated. Oilers longest winning steak of the year was five games. Hemsky played one of them. The powerplay tanked when he came back from injury this year. Oh and he got 3 points last night. A goal, an assist on the Habs only goal, and an open netter where he was cherry picking.

He's a good player but if the Oilers don't trade him to fill need that this team has then I will be very disappointed. I have Faith in the young guys for Offence and really want to see Leadership, defencemen, bottom six guys and a guy with leadership that can win face-offs brought into this team.

Brutal Post. Mine did'nt help either but fans like you make me sick.

Avatar
#128 Trueblue32
February 18 2011, 03:50PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
geoilersgist wrote:

The oilers have $13mil in cap space and gagner wont get more than $2mil a season which is what hes making now. Even if the other 3 are making $4mil a piece we still have room, don't forget Souray comes off the books after next year. Cap space is the last thing this team is worried about.

Back on Topic I don't want to sound like a broken record but the Oil should keep Hemmer and Penner unless the deal is too good to be true. Penners size and skill set makes him more valuable than Hemmer but what do I know.

mmmmm kool-aid

I disagree. Cap space could very well be an issue in three years.

Even by your speculation we'd be over by $1 million based on today's numbers. If Hall and Ebs break out in the next two years they will probably want 4 - 6 mill/yr. Gagner will probably command at least 3 - 3.5 mill.

On top of that, many other players will be need to be signed or resigned and cap space will be needed to stay competetive or acquire new players/vets when making a playoff run (if/when we get there).

...At any rate, I just can't see Penner and Hemsky both staying long term.

I'd keep Hemsky. He is a rare talent and Edmonton fans should accept it like everyone else has around the league.

Avatar
#129 kdunbar
February 18 2011, 03:54PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

@Oilnutz

In reply to ...

Management really needs to make up for the trade that sent Greene and Stoll to LA. Those guys played a big part on the ice and in the dressing room and were never replaced. With Eberle, Hall, Omark Etc. the Oilers have the Guys in place to replace Hemsky already.

Remember that Greene and Stoll eventually became Ryan Whitney, while I agree we gave something up, we did get a good player in return also. Not all that bad.

Avatar
#130 derrickhands
February 18 2011, 03:57PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

I don't think its a good idea trading Hemmer to a team in our Conference. Also Edmonton needs a big, right handed center, or big stud of a defensemen and LA does't have this to trade. I would love to see Schenn playing hear, but he's not what the Oilers need. Also it would be a bad idea to trade for any 2011 draft picks, hold for the 2012 which would be a much stronger draft.

I'm not backing up Tambo, but in most of his trades he was dealing from a position of weakness. Now he's the one that holds all the cards and he has stated he's not going to make a trade unless it's too good to refuse. Right now I can only see Hemmer be trade for that defensemen they need and Florida and Atlanta hold the ones I would be interested in.

Avatar
#131 Peterborough
February 18 2011, 04:07PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
2
cheers

@Trueblue32

I have to disagree by that time we should have a plethera of cheap young players that have been developed by then in the system (think Plante, Marincin, Chorney, Pitlick, Hamilton, Hartikaenen etc) they should all or mostly be good to go or already in the line up by then. And fill the needs in the line-up.

Avatar
#132 Golden Moment
February 18 2011, 04:20PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers
John Chambers wrote:

It's difficult to evaluate GMs on the small things they do, and much easier to measure the impact of franchise-transforming moves.

Like everyone who participates in this blog, I'm observing ST with a degree of curiosity and skepticism. I'll form a more solid opinion after July 1 once we'll have observed what he's done to influence the makeup of this team long term.

I think at this point it's too early to unequivocally grade Tambellini. He's done good things by re-building the farm system, obtaining Jones for nothing, and getting rid of underperforming veterans.

But it's how he handles Penner and Hemsky, the development of our young core, and the acquisition of veterans to complement our existing talent that will make me a fan or a critic.

ST's pedigree is very good. He has a lot of professional experience in the NHL, and has worked alongside Pat Quinn, Brian Burke, and Dave Nonis. How he translates that experience into success on the ice we shall soon see*

*soon meaning 24-36 months

Well reasoned, and thank you for causing me to rethink my position. I asked Robin Brownlee some time ago if he thought that ST was the answer as a GM. At that time he indicated that we need to be patient and let time determine this. I agree, and appreciate your perspective.

Avatar
#133 Crackenbury
February 18 2011, 04:31PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
4
cheers

12 months ago the Oilers were a cap team saddled with aging players with untradeable contracts. 12 months later they are the second youngest team in the league with cap room to spare and a stable of young prospects. Wow what a crappy plan ST, you should be fired!

Avatar
#134 Dennis
February 18 2011, 05:07PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers
Archaeologuy wrote:

1) Smyth was a rental. Hemmer is not

2) Pronger demanded out and put the Oil in a very weak position. Hemmer has not.

Those two deals were completely different because the Oilers were in the weakest position. At the deadline of 2012, the Oil can settle for the returns you describe in the other deals.

There is no reason to settle for those things at the deadline 2011. Hemsky is still under contract for next season and has not demanded to be traded (at least that I know of).

So if there's no reason to accept lesser returns then why not start the bidding high? There is no reason for the Oilers to trade Hemsky to any team right now. So if they want him they need to pay to get him.

If youre accepting crap for him now in a position of strength, what are the other GMs going to offer you when you dont have the upper hand later?

Even LOWE admitted he should have waited longer before he dealt Pronger: the deal was bad even Lowe admitted he should have done things differently.

and how many times has Lowe admitted fault?

exactly.

Avatar
#135 Peterborough
February 18 2011, 05:11PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

@Crackenbury

couldn't agree more!

Avatar
#136 DimebagDave
February 18 2011, 05:18PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
TigerUnderGlass wrote:

1. I ask you what Tambellini has done to earn your confidence and your reply was that he didn't get his job on looks. That is not an answer. I hate to say it but "he's a GM so he must know what he's doing" has no logical foundation.

2. Hockey sense? How does that help him build a roster, or manage a cap, or even use common sense? It doesn't. The unemployment line is littered with the corpses or former executives who possessed "hockey sense."

3. He didn't even think to ask Souray how his rotting disintegrated hand was doing, so I have no idea how you can be so sure he knows what Hemsky is thinking. Besides "he didn't get there on his looks" I mean.

4. Can you point to a single thing Tambellini has done to demonstrate that he does, in fact, have a plan to build this roster that goes beyond "draft high"?

5. "Moron" was sure a good one. Now I value your opinion even more.

1. I never said he has my confidence, I believe I stated I don't like him as a GM.

2. I may not be the greatest with words so maybe hockey sense wasn't the right choice of words. As far as building a roster, or managing a cap was not at all what I was getting at in my post. Common sense, well I'm gonna assume that our billionaire owner who I am also gonna assume is a very intelligent man isn't gonna stand behind a moron GM.

3. Do we know that he didn't "think" to call him, or that he just didn't "care" to call him. Are we sure that that is even the GM's job to do such a thing? Perhaps thats more a job better suited for team doctors and/or trainers to make the calls and report back to the boss. I know when I'm home sick from work the big boss doesn't call me to see how I'm doing.

4. Again, this has nothing to do with my original point.

5. If you truly believe that the thought has not crossed his mind to ask those two what their thoughts are about resigning or testing the market, even though every person on this site and in the blogosphere has thought about it, then I stand by my original statement. The only 2 people that i truly care about valuing my opinion are my wife and the man that signs my paycheck and you sir rank nowhere near those 2.

Avatar
#137 Ender
February 18 2011, 05:27PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Brewer to T-Bay. I'll be interested to see what Brewer's value is these days.

UPDATE: The Blues get a third round pick and a prospect, probably d-man Brock Beukeboom.

Overall, this trade makes a lot of sense for everyone. Tampa is chasing Stanley this year and Brewer will give them some depth. The Blues are officially packing it in with this move and bringing in a bit of youth. They were going to lose Brewer to free-agency in the summer anyway, so this is a pretty good return on a rental player.

The real question will be what a guy like Brewer is worth this summer on the open market. Depending on his asking price (which I'm guessing will be a lot less than the $4.5M he made this year), the Oilers could do worse.

Avatar
#138 Kevin
February 18 2011, 06:22PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
CSimpson18 wrote:

I love Hemsky (like a brother...) but I'm gonna need even one person to explain to me how it's a good idea to have our 6 highest paid players be wingers. I'd love to keep the guy but I'd need to know what kind of dollars and especially term he'd be looking for after next year. Also ask the magic eight-ball how much HPE will be making on their next contracts.

Due to his injury concerns I think he'd be looking for long term security. This carries significant risk from an asset management standpoint. I'm not against offering him something like 5 years 5million, not much more/longer though. I think if that's the case Penner would have to go. It's a conundrum.

You are absolutely on the right train of thought. Accountants say numbers don't lie and folks the answer to this dilemma is all in the numbers. Of you are Hemsky would you sign here for less than Horcoff numbers ? I think not ! If your the GM do you sign a 50-60 point per year guy to more than Horcoffs dollars ? I'm hoping the answer to that is NO. In there lies your answer. To potentially signing Hemsky and Penner long term to contracts over $5m per season plus Horcoffs outrageous contract makes zero sense at all. As I said the answer is in the numbers. Folks we are not talking Getzlav, Perry and Ryan here. We need to get real. This is and has been a toilet bowl team here for years. To tie that much money in our first line is sense less. I said it before and you can thank Klowe for that. He signed Horc to that contract and we are quite literally paying for it now when it come to potentially sighing others. That said we have assets of value here and together with the demand there now we are moving assets at a high. Tambo needs to maximize these these assets if he can it will a big part of any success with this rebuild. If he fails as he has done with Souray. This will take as Klowe says at least 6 years. Should we the paying fan have to pay for that sentence ?

Avatar
#139 Archaeologuy
February 18 2011, 06:24PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Dennis wrote:

Even LOWE admitted he should have waited longer before he dealt Pronger: the deal was bad even Lowe admitted he should have done things differently.

and how many times has Lowe admitted fault?

exactly.

I don't know what you're getting at with this.

Avatar
#140 fuck off
February 18 2011, 06:36PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers
Crackenbury wrote:

12 months ago the Oilers were a cap team saddled with aging players with untradeable contracts. 12 months later they are the second youngest team in the league with cap room to spare and a stable of young prospects. Wow what a crappy plan ST, you should be fired!

This is exactly 1/2 of the reason why Tambo has done a GREAT job so far. As for the other half, that's simple! Instead of acting foolishly like everyone here who seems to think he needs to make a BIG DEAL to accomplish the task of being a good GM; ST has instead invoked that ageless golden quality...

PATIENCE

Avatar
#141 fuck off
February 18 2011, 06:38PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

@TigerUnderGlass

How has Tambo been incompetent in his "small decisions"?

Seriously, tell me ONE bad move he's made as the Oil's GM!

Avatar
#142 ricky p
February 18 2011, 07:06PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Did not. Did so. We all need to get a grip. Seasons over boys. Take it or leave it. Enjoy the entertainment they now call the NHL for the last few games, or not. Hopefully Tambo puts together a better product for next year. Reserve judgement until after the trade deadline, the draft and free agent signings. Then if we still blow, off with their heads.

So, pleasssse let's quit fighting between ourselves for trades that will never be made, draft picks that will not happen and other teams moves that we should have made. Raise a beer to the sound beating we call this season and lets all hope for exciting 17th place hockey next year.

Avatar
#143 TigerUnderGlass
February 18 2011, 07:09PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

@DimebagDave

Are we sure that that is even the GM's job to do such a thing?

Seriously? Pretend you are GM of an NHL team. One of your best players demands a trade and then injures himself. Do you:

A) Ignore him? B) Give him a call?

I'll give you two guesses.

Again, this has nothing to do with my original point.

No not your original post, but it applies directly to your response to me. You made a point to declare than Tambellini has earned his job. (ie. His looks didn't get him there) I am questioning that premise.

If you truly believe that the thought has not crossed his mind to ask those two what their thoughts are about resigning or testing the market

...aaand here lies the problem. Why don't you read what I really said, and try your best to ignore what you think I said.

Questioning whether something occurred does not equal claiming it never happened, no matter how much it suits you to believe so.

The only 2 people that i truly care about valuing my opinion are my wife and the man that signs my paycheck and you sir rank nowhere near those 2.

Ah yes, there it is, the generic "you don't matter" statement...complete with a "you sir" reference. Thank you for completing the picture. Good thing you don't care what I think.

Avatar
#144 Crackenbury
February 18 2011, 07:10PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

@fuck off

I agree with the patience. There's no point in trading anyone unless you're improving your team. It's one thing to talk about Hemsky for Schenn, but the other team has to want it as well. A late first round draft pick and a so-so prospect isn't enough. You need a proven roster player or absolute stud prospect to get rid of him. Lack of commitment for the future from Hemsky might pressure the Oilers into a move they don't want to make. I hope not, he'll be hard to replace.

Avatar
#145 TigerUnderGlass
February 18 2011, 07:11PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
fuck off wrote:

How has Tambo been incompetent in his "small decisions"?

Seriously, tell me ONE bad move he's made as the Oil's GM!

Sorry, I can't tell if you are being appropriately sarcastic or if you ask honestly asking the question.

Avatar
#146 6 ring circus
February 18 2011, 07:44PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Instead of whealing and dealing Tambellini does nothing,whats he waiting for? Once all the teams have done their trading, is he going to start making calls? There is evaluating and then there is Tambellini,thats why this rebuild is going to take 5-6 years!!!

Avatar
#147 Crackenbury
February 18 2011, 08:08PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
3
cheers
6 ring circus wrote:

Instead of whealing and dealing Tambellini does nothing,whats he waiting for? Once all the teams have done their trading, is he going to start making calls? There is evaluating and then there is Tambellini,thats why this rebuild is going to take 5-6 years!!!

ST: Hey Dean, I want Schenn. I'll give you Hemksy.

DL: Pull your head out of your ass.

ST: No really, the fans expect me to make a trade. Let's get it done.

DL: OK, but instead of Schenn, you can have Ryan back. Your fans will love you for it.

ST: I don't think so Dean. I gotta have Schenn to make it happen.

DL: Why would I make that deal?

ST: Because the fans here want you to.

DL: Well your fans are idiots if they think that's going to happen.

Avatar
#148 BarryS
February 18 2011, 08:26PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

@Crackenbury

Excellent post. People here forget there are 29 other GMs plus owners involved in the business. So far, how many GM's have made deals,4? 5? 6? ST can make all the proposals he wants, but until someone bites nothing comes of it. Just because Berkie has something on Boston(or us ut the other way around) does not mean trades will be easy. trading players for draft choices, most trades nowadays, are salary dumps. See St. Louis.

Avatar
#149 6 ring circus
February 18 2011, 08:37PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

@Crackenbury

Who said anything about Schenn? Im not the one answering Tambellinis phone.but there are other GM's making deals to better there teams.Last time I checked we where in 30th place. Tambellini is on his 3rd coach in 3 years and he is guiding the oilers to last place in the league two years in a row,man he is doing a great job.

Avatar
#150 TigerUnderGlass
February 18 2011, 08:44PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

I'm not even sure Schenn is the guy we want. I think he is being overrated due to his strong WJC, so if they say no to Schenn that's fine...move on to something else.

Comments are closed for this article.