More Kids in the Hall

Lowetide
February 21 2011 08:18AM

The Oilers already have their Jacks and Kings on the wing rolling over the next decade. They lack 6's and 7's and could use a complete defenseman and a workhorse 2-way C of the future. If they are to trade Hemsky and Penner, Steve Tambellini should be looking for a very specific return--young NHL players with a wide range of skills. 

  • GOALER: Oilers have Devan Dubnyk and he is enjoying a solid rookie season. They also have Nikolai Khabibulin under contract through the summer of 2013. However, goalie values have never been lower (there's an adequate goalie on almost every street corner) so picking up a goaler--even a highly touted one like the kind they grow in Washington--is probably an inadequate use of assets.
  • DEFENSE: The Oilers should have a couple of capable men from each of the veteran (Whitney, Gilbert) group and the department of youth (Peckham & Petry). Smid is a a dependable player (for the most part) who falls into the middle ground, meaning there are 5 names Tom Renney can look to next season. If they add Adam Larsson he'll get a long look, and the minor leagues/juniors boast some nice talents in Plante and Marincin. Kurtis Foster could also have a rebound season if the Oilers don't ship him off this week or in summer. Could they use a defenseman? Sure, but those young blue (like Bogosian) are so hard to acquire and the mid-level guys (like Teubert) aren't any more certain as prospects than guys like Peckham or Plante. Oilers already have those guys.
  • CENTER: This is an area where the club could really help themselves this week. The current big league roster boasts Horcoff, Cogliano, Gagner, Reddox and Fraser up the middle. A team that comes calling for Hemsky or Penner could be successful if they are able to offer a young C with a nice range of skills. Someone in the entry level contract but already an NHL player. Maybe someone who can win a faceoff and has a mean streak.
  • LEFT WING: Oilers look well set on LW. Hall, Pääjärvi, Jones at the NHL level and talents like Teemu Hartikainen and Curtis Hamilton on the way. Oilers might have to pick up a checker during the summer, but again that's an abundant talent. Edmonton looks good all day on LW. They could use some sandpaper here too.
  • RIGHT WING: If they trade Hemsky, this is immediately an area of concern. Jordan Eberle is gifted but very young and lacks experience; Omark is gifted but has not yet completely earned the confidence of his coach. Brule could help here but I'm not certain the organization can count on him for next season (based on this season's difficulties). You can move Ryan Jones over, but so what? If--as rumored--Wayne Simmonds is coming over from LAK then the depth chart on RW looks better (Eberle, Omark, Simmonds). If they draft that kid Landeskog then the position will be a strength in no time, but it would likely be a season of painful growth in 10-11.

That's the way I see it. If the club deals Hemsky, they need to replace him on the depth chart with an actual NHL right wing. Futher areas of need include a complete defenseman (or someone who will grow into that role); a quality 2-way C (or someone growing into that role now) and grit throughout the batting order.

Wide range of skills. Two-way players. They don't grow on trees, but then again neither does talent like Ales Hemsky.

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Lowetide has been one of the Oilogosphere's shining lights for over a century. You can check him out here at OilersNation and at lowetide.ca. He is also the host of Lowdown with Lowetide weekday mornings 10-noon on Team 1260.
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#101 Dennis
February 21 2011, 03:03PM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

You are closing in on a DeepOil level of obssesion with Lowe being the GM.

There's no obsession: it's just me putting two and two together.

Lowe was broken over the 94 trade: right down to the fact he didn't have the guts to show up at Rexall almost immediately after when one of the old guard was hoisted to the rafters.

Tambo was a guy who was passed over Twice by his own organization.

Twice.

He couldn't get a job anywhere else.

They knew each other from the Can National team program and what a chance for Lowe to still have power but not to have to face the fire: hire a guy who's so desperate for a GM job and has so many few options that he'll certainly take a puppet's role.

Granted, I have massaged some of this but there are a lot of facts in there as well. Still, it's something that I Think fits together.

But something I've seen with my own two eyes is the scene from the premier ep of Oil Change when both guys are in the back of the mini-van.

Go watch that and tell me who's in charge.

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#102 Zarf
February 21 2011, 03:04PM
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Well, everyone, I think we can officially rule out Hemsky to Pittsburgh now.

Good for Pittsburgh, though. They finally got a winger for Sid. Finally.

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#103 Dennis
February 21 2011, 03:09PM
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stevezie wrote:

Neal and Niskanen? Is Gologoski way, way, way better than his numbers indicate?

The young former Pens dman is on a heckuva value contract - 1.85 mill I believe - but outside of that I can't see how this isn't a huge win for Shero and the Pens.

Now you have Crosby-Kunitz and Staal-Neal and if that works out you deal Malkin for some wingers because their D's pretty much set for the next few years.

I haven't checked BTN but I doubt Gologoski's playing tough opp so that takes some of the shine off his big plus/minus number.

This looks like the Pens trading from depth to address a weakness and the Stars hoping that the young D's gonna be able to take the ball and spring - not run - with it.

Also, there must be another Jamie Benn type in the Stars org ready to take the leap if they are so content with dealing off Neal.

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#104 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
February 21 2011, 03:14PM
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@Dennis

I see a very different management style since Tambellini "took over", now that doesn't mean he is 100% in control, but it tells me he very well could be.

That said, I would imagine most major decisions are made as a group, and I'd also bet heavy that almost every team in the league is run similarly (to varying degrees)

Everything seems to be a bigger deal in the little fishbowl filled with conspiracy hunters, that is Edmonton though.

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#105 Zarf
February 21 2011, 03:14PM
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Dude...

Calm down. Take a breath.

Lowe's not the GM, anymore. You can relax.

Please don't tell me you're going to cite two people sharing a conversation and a ride in a Chrysler minivan as proof-positive that Lowe is pulling the strings. Sharing an airport-shuttle ride is not really the same as sharing the same brain.

More importantly, Darryl Katz did not became a jillionaire hiring people into redundant positions. If he had wanted K-Lowe to work as the GM behind-the-scenes, he would have kept him as GM ... uh ... in-front-of-the-scenes.

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#106 9 Inches Uncut
February 21 2011, 03:16PM
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Dennis wrote:

There's no obsession: it's just me putting two and two together.

Lowe was broken over the 94 trade: right down to the fact he didn't have the guts to show up at Rexall almost immediately after when one of the old guard was hoisted to the rafters.

Tambo was a guy who was passed over Twice by his own organization.

Twice.

He couldn't get a job anywhere else.

They knew each other from the Can National team program and what a chance for Lowe to still have power but not to have to face the fire: hire a guy who's so desperate for a GM job and has so many few options that he'll certainly take a puppet's role.

Granted, I have massaged some of this but there are a lot of facts in there as well. Still, it's something that I Think fits together.

But something I've seen with my own two eyes is the scene from the premier ep of Oil Change when both guys are in the back of the mini-van.

Go watch that and tell me who's in charge.

I think the return for Penner or Hemsky will really tell me if Lowe is still involved in the GM game.

If that LA rumour comes to fruition then his stink is still in the GM chair.

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#107 Dennis
February 21 2011, 03:26PM
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Zarf wrote:

Dude...

Calm down. Take a breath.

Lowe's not the GM, anymore. You can relax.

Please don't tell me you're going to cite two people sharing a conversation and a ride in a Chrysler minivan as proof-positive that Lowe is pulling the strings. Sharing an airport-shuttle ride is not really the same as sharing the same brain.

More importantly, Darryl Katz did not became a jillionaire hiring people into redundant positions. If he had wanted K-Lowe to work as the GM behind-the-scenes, he would have kept him as GM ... uh ... in-front-of-the-scenes.

did Katz hire MacGregor?

OK, well tell me something really good that he's done since he was hired. Did he sign off on the Quinn hiring? Probably. Well that wasn't a good move and now he's paying him to do nothing, isn't he?

Katz might have made his money in other areas but that doesn't make him a visionary or ahead of the curve when it comes to running a hockey club. Personally, Lowe has so much power in your city that I think it's worth whatever Katz is paying him so he can eat breakfast eight days a week and glad-hand and be the face of the team; and then Lowe gets to have final say as well but without taking the flack. So, a nice thank you from Katz in that regard.

I know people share shuttles;) BTW, but I also know a kiss-a$$ and a guy without the ultimate power when I see it.

So, do I think Lowe does everything that a GM would do? No, I don't. but would I bet he has final say on the big moves?

Yes I certainly would.

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#108 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
February 21 2011, 03:27PM
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9 Inches Uncut wrote:

I think the return for Penner or Hemsky will really tell me if Lowe is still involved in the GM game.

If that LA rumour comes to fruition then his stink is still in the GM chair.

The real stink comes from fans that don't understand the nature of trading for futures.

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#109 derrickhands
February 21 2011, 03:59PM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

The real stink comes from fans that don't understand the nature of trading for futures.

Also some fans want ST to make a bad trade like the rumored LA Simmonds trade (have to be on drugs to believe that one would happen) so they can complain some more and hopefully get rid of him. The Boston Wheeler for Hemsky was a better trade then the Simmonds one and that one didn't happen. What makes you think the Simmonds one will. There is still a lot more buyers then sellers and as the trade deadline get closer the more desperate these's buyers are going to get, so just wait and see

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#110 Shane
February 21 2011, 04:02PM
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Im scared!

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#111 Zarf
February 21 2011, 04:16PM
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First of all, you’ve asked for a few “really good” things Tambo has done since he was hired. OK... He drafted Taylor over Tyler. He signed Quinn ... which was obviously a mistake but then he made up for it by switching to Renney after one year with Quinn (I realize I’m spinning that, but don’t under-estimate the courage of that decision – that was a rather abrupt change of horses). Uh ... what else? He found Ryan Jones on waivers. He cut loose a bunch of dead weight last year, including Staois. He took a principled stand on Sheldon Souray (I’m spinning again, but that’s still a ballsy stance he’s taken and he hasn’t waivered on it). He’s made a commitment to playing the kids, come hell or high water. He’s recognized the value of a strong AHL club and he’s building something there.

The mistakes – signing Khabby, originally picking Quinn as coach, signing Fraser, failing to find (or even search for) a faceoff guy – are regrettable but certainly not firing offences.

Interesting that you would assume that “Lowe has so much power in YOUR city.” I don’t live in Edmonton. I live in Grande Prairie. And I only make that distinction because it’s a central tenet of all this speculation on what Kevin Lowe does and doesn’t do in the organization. The thing is, none of us really has a friggin’ clue how it works in the background because NONE OF US WORK IN THE OILERS FRONT OFFICE.

However, let’s take it as granted that Kevin Lowe is in on hockey decisions. Is his title not “President of Hockey Operations?” Player transactions, scouting, contracts, coaching decision – all of those would seem to fall under “hockey operations,” no?

Surely you can’t think that Kevin Lowe is in charge of ordering sock-tape and overseeing the minor-league system. Of course he’s going to be in on decisions. I have no idea – like I say, I’m up in the sticks – but if I was working in that office, I’d assume that he’d be in on moves. I’d expect it.

The days of Glen Sather holding three or four different titles (coach, GM, president of hockey operations and majordomo), are long-gone. Teams are absolutely run by committee nowadays – perhaps not all of them, but many of them. And I don’t think Edmonton’s is run any worse than the others that are.

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#112 DSF
February 21 2011, 05:31PM
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Zarf wrote:

First of all, you’ve asked for a few “really good” things Tambo has done since he was hired. OK... He drafted Taylor over Tyler. He signed Quinn ... which was obviously a mistake but then he made up for it by switching to Renney after one year with Quinn (I realize I’m spinning that, but don’t under-estimate the courage of that decision – that was a rather abrupt change of horses). Uh ... what else? He found Ryan Jones on waivers. He cut loose a bunch of dead weight last year, including Staois. He took a principled stand on Sheldon Souray (I’m spinning again, but that’s still a ballsy stance he’s taken and he hasn’t waivered on it). He’s made a commitment to playing the kids, come hell or high water. He’s recognized the value of a strong AHL club and he’s building something there.

The mistakes – signing Khabby, originally picking Quinn as coach, signing Fraser, failing to find (or even search for) a faceoff guy – are regrettable but certainly not firing offences.

Interesting that you would assume that “Lowe has so much power in YOUR city.” I don’t live in Edmonton. I live in Grande Prairie. And I only make that distinction because it’s a central tenet of all this speculation on what Kevin Lowe does and doesn’t do in the organization. The thing is, none of us really has a friggin’ clue how it works in the background because NONE OF US WORK IN THE OILERS FRONT OFFICE.

However, let’s take it as granted that Kevin Lowe is in on hockey decisions. Is his title not “President of Hockey Operations?” Player transactions, scouting, contracts, coaching decision – all of those would seem to fall under “hockey operations,” no?

Surely you can’t think that Kevin Lowe is in charge of ordering sock-tape and overseeing the minor-league system. Of course he’s going to be in on decisions. I have no idea – like I say, I’m up in the sticks – but if I was working in that office, I’d assume that he’d be in on moves. I’d expect it.

The days of Glen Sather holding three or four different titles (coach, GM, president of hockey operations and majordomo), are long-gone. Teams are absolutely run by committee nowadays – perhaps not all of them, but many of them. And I don’t think Edmonton’s is run any worse than the others that are.

Signing Khabibulin to that contract WAS a firing offense.

And everything that has transpired since that day has confirmed it...his MVP status notwithstanding.

If the team is run by committee, as you say, and the Chairman of the committee bears ultimate responsibility.

If either the Chairman or Vice Chairman of the committee manages to bungle Hemsky and Penner's expiring contracts, would they both bear culpability?

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#113 oil#78
February 21 2011, 05:34PM
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Clint wrote:

Good teams...Champions don't trade for futures. They draft and keep them. And then they steal your teams good players. Players like hemsky and penner History shows you keep your best players and trade for better ones. Trading for futures is a fools game

Excellent comment Clint. Nail on the head.

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#114 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
February 21 2011, 05:38PM
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Clint wrote:

Good teams...Champions don't trade for futures. They draft and keep them. And then they steal your teams good players. Players like hemsky and penner History shows you keep your best players and trade for better ones. Trading for futures is a fools game

Nice sweeping generalization, but it happens all the time. Especially when dealing with rentals/guys that demand a trade.

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#115 jaicee
February 21 2011, 05:39PM
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Clint wrote:

Good teams...Champions don't trade for futures. They draft and keep them. And then they steal your teams good players. Players like hemsky and penner History shows you keep your best players and trade for better ones. Trading for futures is a fools game

It just so happens that speculating on "futures (and forwards)" appears to be as risky in finance as it is in the NHL.

However, even the richest of men appear to be never satisfied with the status quo and they continue to make these risky investments in search of a reward that out weighs the cost.

The one thing that "self made millionaire" handbook on investing seems to leave out is that for every Warren Buffet there are millions of investors who lose big time.

I just hope we think about hedging our futures with appropriate NHL ready role players rather than continuing to rely on the NHL draft.

Maybe that means we hold on to Penner and/or Hemsky.

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#116 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
February 21 2011, 05:40PM
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9 Inches Uncut wrote:

YEah dude. Teuberts future is dim. Like you.

I'm actually against trading for futures as a general rule of thumb (stated so much in my first post in this blog).

However I'm realistic enough to know that trades for futures happen, all accross the league, and that when you've lost leverage you are more then likely going to get futures back.

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#117 Deeg
February 21 2011, 06:23PM
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Do folks think Pitlick bubbles up on right wing (that's where he's playing in the Hat, right?) or center? Sounds like he might even be a bit closer than Hamilton to cracking the club with his performance last Fall. Those 2 sound like a great makings of a 3rd line down the ways -perhaps even with Lander in the middle?

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#118 Dennis
February 21 2011, 06:54PM
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Zarf wrote:

First of all, you’ve asked for a few “really good” things Tambo has done since he was hired. OK... He drafted Taylor over Tyler. He signed Quinn ... which was obviously a mistake but then he made up for it by switching to Renney after one year with Quinn (I realize I’m spinning that, but don’t under-estimate the courage of that decision – that was a rather abrupt change of horses). Uh ... what else? He found Ryan Jones on waivers. He cut loose a bunch of dead weight last year, including Staois. He took a principled stand on Sheldon Souray (I’m spinning again, but that’s still a ballsy stance he’s taken and he hasn’t waivered on it). He’s made a commitment to playing the kids, come hell or high water. He’s recognized the value of a strong AHL club and he’s building something there.

The mistakes – signing Khabby, originally picking Quinn as coach, signing Fraser, failing to find (or even search for) a faceoff guy – are regrettable but certainly not firing offences.

Interesting that you would assume that “Lowe has so much power in YOUR city.” I don’t live in Edmonton. I live in Grande Prairie. And I only make that distinction because it’s a central tenet of all this speculation on what Kevin Lowe does and doesn’t do in the organization. The thing is, none of us really has a friggin’ clue how it works in the background because NONE OF US WORK IN THE OILERS FRONT OFFICE.

However, let’s take it as granted that Kevin Lowe is in on hockey decisions. Is his title not “President of Hockey Operations?” Player transactions, scouting, contracts, coaching decision – all of those would seem to fall under “hockey operations,” no?

Surely you can’t think that Kevin Lowe is in charge of ordering sock-tape and overseeing the minor-league system. Of course he’s going to be in on decisions. I have no idea – like I say, I’m up in the sticks – but if I was working in that office, I’d assume that he’d be in on moves. I’d expect it.

The days of Glen Sather holding three or four different titles (coach, GM, president of hockey operations and majordomo), are long-gone. Teams are absolutely run by committee nowadays – perhaps not all of them, but many of them. And I don’t think Edmonton’s is run any worse than the others that are.

if I'm wrong then I'm mistaken but I'm pretty sure I said what good has Katz done in reference to your believe that he wouldn't support a dedundancy or that he's made a lot of good decisions since he's taken over.

and also I just assume everyone's from edm or alberta and it's a default setting.

I'm from NF so I guess I should know better.

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#119 Dennis
February 21 2011, 06:55PM
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Deeg wrote:

Do folks think Pitlick bubbles up on right wing (that's where he's playing in the Hat, right?) or center? Sounds like he might even be a bit closer than Hamilton to cracking the club with his performance last Fall. Those 2 sound like a great makings of a 3rd line down the ways -perhaps even with Lander in the middle?

I have been wondering about this but if Pitlick is playing wing than I have to ask why.

You can always convert him to the wing when he gets to the bigs but right now he should be at pivot.

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#120 Dennis
February 21 2011, 06:57PM
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John Chambers wrote:

The Oilers are probably lucky that this flurry of trades has occured over the past few days. Most of the available quality talent has been moved, and our top talent remains up for grabs.

LA and Washington almost surely need to do something, while CHI, SJ, MTL, NYR, and others may add to their teams over the next week.

I think ON readers have hit the nail squarely: this is ST's opportunity. If he can pull of a deal that looks like Penner for John Carlson, or Alzner and Neuvirth, or Hemsky to LA for Schenn and a 1st - that deal becomes a major milestone of the re-build.

If ST is a bonehead and makes the move for the sake of making a move, and we end up with Thomas Hickey, I'll say that he's failed miserably.

We are in the driver's seat now. I hope the Oil keep one of 27 or 83, and deal the one least likely to re-sign for a top-flight prospect.

The Oil probably do have to move one of them in order to address a need and the truth is that if either or both of them don't want to stay here than that makes Lowe's job even harder.

But it's one thing to move them and it's another thing to see the most connected guy in the city laying out what you'll probably get in return.

Matheson's plugged in so you listen when he speaks and as soon as you hear about deals where the other team won't give up their best prospect?

well that sounds like the stuff Lowe always falls for.

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#121 madjam
February 21 2011, 07:09PM
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Making next years squad with all our present AHL'ers and especially our recently acquired rookies this last season and even this year seems rather unlikely any will make the grade up beyond Plante or/and Chorney . Newbies will have to be better than Omark to make the transition to forward . Gagner , Cogs and Brule the forward( newbies) will have to be better than just to make the squad ! I doubt RNH , Landeskog or Couture if drafted would be part of next years squad to be honest- more like a couple of years down the road . Same goes for all this years draftees beyond Hall of course ! Will Landers , Hamilton , Pitlick advance far enough in next year to uproot any present forwards out of a job ? I very much rather doubt it .

Defensively Larsson and /or Musil might stand a chance of transitioning early because our defence is not great to begin with .

Oilers probably hoping ON comes up with some trades that they might seek out and call their own at this stage where actually we might win a trade ! So keep the trade talks coming, keeping in mind we have to win them clearly !

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#122 Dave
February 21 2011, 07:56PM
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Archaeologuy wrote:

I wonder if Pittsburgh tried to offer Goligoski for Hemsky to Tambo before he went to Dallas.

I'm with the others who think the Stars got fleeced.

Couldn't agree more and I would argue that the Blues did the same thing to the Avs. James Neal and Chris Stewart are untouchables IMO and I'm stunned they both moved.

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#123 John Chambers
February 21 2011, 07:56PM
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@Archaeologuy

I would be happy if that deal was offered to ST and he turned it down. Goligoski would've been a poor return ... not awful, but not nearly enough for Hemsky.

With WAS and LA still not having made a move, I wonder if final details of a Hemsky or Penner deal are being worked out.

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#124 TonyT
February 21 2011, 07:57PM
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Clint wrote:

Good teams...Champions don't trade for futures. They draft and keep them. And then they steal your teams good players. Players like hemsky and penner History shows you keep your best players and trade for better ones. Trading for futures is a fools game

"Good teams" are generally buyers this time of year, last time I checked the standings the Oilers were neither, but I digress.

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#125 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
February 21 2011, 08:02PM
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Dennis wrote:

The Oil probably do have to move one of them in order to address a need and the truth is that if either or both of them don't want to stay here than that makes Lowe's job even harder.

But it's one thing to move them and it's another thing to see the most connected guy in the city laying out what you'll probably get in return.

Matheson's plugged in so you listen when he speaks and as soon as you hear about deals where the other team won't give up their best prospect?

well that sounds like the stuff Lowe always falls for.

I really can't believe people are still bringing up trades from 4 years ago.

Do people honestly think those were "hockey trades" when a teams hand is forced, they recieve 50 cents on the dollar, that's the way it works.

I'd also like to point out that one of the pieces from that trade looks like it has deliverd us a quasi all-star for the next 10+ years, so I really don't know what people are complaining about.

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#126 Zarf
February 21 2011, 09:32PM
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I have to admit, I still haven't figured out what is the right move, vis-a-vis Hemsky and Penner.

I think they could both be keepers because there are compelling cases to retain both of them.

Hemsky's the skilled one. Penner's the big guy with hands. Both would be considered cornerstones on a lot of other NHL teams ... and given that all of the other NHL teams are ahead of the Oilers in the standings, then the Oilers should be keeping them.

But here comes the "but..."

Curtis Joseph. Doug Weight. Todd Marchant. Bill Guerin.

All either bolted via free agency or had to be traded because the Oilers know there was no friggin' way they were staying once July 1 rolled around.

The Oilers have a perfect record on unrestricted free agents either leaving outright or making it clear that they were gonzo the first chance they had. We've all got to remember that: When the time comes for them to leave, they'll go.

I suppose there's a chance that the string could be unbroken, but who wants to chance it?

Do we want to have our hearts broken yet again?

That's really what it's going to come down to: Do we have the stomach to go through free agent angst again?

I just don't know what the answer is.

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#127 Kodiak
February 21 2011, 11:28PM
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Romanus wrote:

All these guys thinking we should trade Hemsky are nuts. We finally have a point a game player, of which there are approximately 15 in the league, and everyone wants to ship him out for a prospect we hope will be someday. Hes entering the prime of playing years, now is the time to sign him.

As pointed out by RCN we can't sign him now as per the CBA, he's not a point a game player, he's averaged 54 points/year since 2006, and he's only signed through next season and can walk away. We can't stop him from walking away. Would he be great to have for 5 more years? Sure, but wishing and wanting it isn't going to make it so.

If he's in play, which the main sources say he is, I'm thinking Tamby has an idea he may not resign. If that is the case, he should be gone. His value is way higher now having a year left than it will be this time next year. Moving him now would also give whoever we pick up (Simmonds, Clifford, Loktionov) an extra year to gel and grow with this team. I don't see any advantage to waiting if there is an inkling Hemmer is undecided about resigning.

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#128 Archaeologuy
February 21 2011, 11:35PM
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@Kodiak

He's pretty damn close to a point per game since 2005-2006:

77P/81G, 53P/64G, 71P/74G, 66P/72G, 22P/22G, 40P/42G

Not exactly a PPG, but about as close to it as you can come.

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#129 smiliegirl15
February 22 2011, 08:27AM
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LT do you know something we don't? Why isn't Penner on your list of LW? Is there a trade coming for Penner?

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#130 Kodiak
February 22 2011, 08:46AM
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Archaeologuy wrote:

He's pretty damn close to a point per game since 2005-2006:

77P/81G, 53P/64G, 71P/74G, 66P/72G, 22P/22G, 40P/42G

Not exactly a PPG, but about as close to it as you can come.

True, he's close. He's also only averaged 54 points/season since 2006. In that time an average of 90 players every year have put up 54 points/season. Averaging 90th in scoring the last 4+ years doesn't scream difference maker.

His skill is undeniable but his durability/availability diminishes his impact and value.

I'm going to look it up today, but I'm betting Horcoff in/out of the lineup had a lot bigger impact on our winning % than Hemsky being in/out of the lineup, and if that's the case is Hemsky really a difference maker?

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#131 Peterborough
February 22 2011, 09:01AM
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Archaeologuy wrote:

He's pretty damn close to a point per game since 2005-2006:

77P/81G, 53P/64G, 71P/74G, 66P/72G, 22P/22G, 40P/42G

Not exactly a PPG, but about as close to it as you can come.

hard to argue those numbers and he's a plus player on the worst team in the league one of only four on the whole team.

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#132 positivebrontefan
February 22 2011, 09:20AM
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Just my two cents but if we put a all round playmaking/goalscoring big body center between Hall and Hemsky, we have a world class line. Watching Hemmer feed Hall on Saturday I don't think we see him go anywhere, and I don't think he'll want to go anywhere.

I like Penners 30 goals a year but dammit dude, show some tenacity!!!!

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#133 Next up, is Connor McJesus.
February 22 2011, 10:09AM
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Steve, we're hoping you to step up to the plate and knock this one outta here for us this week, can't afford to have you bunting on this one.

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#134 positivebrontefan
February 22 2011, 10:47AM
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Hey LT,

What's the deal with Matt Puempel? He was one of the standout rookies in the CHL, in fact was CHL rookie of the year ahead of RNH and curently has 69 points in 55 Games. Yet he is ranked at only 29th on the NHL scouting rankings? What's the story on this kid? Could he be a good pickup late in the first round? Not sure why his stock has dropped off so badly? That being said RNH has 86 points in 59 games and is a little taller although not as solid as he is a good 15 pounds lighter.

Never mind, I just looked on the Petes website and he is a Minus -33 on the season. Albeit on a team with a bad record.

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#135 Kodiak
February 22 2011, 11:53AM
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Are we really going to miss Hemsky that much? Is he really that much of a difference maker?

With Hemsky in the lineup we are 12W 25L 5otl for a 0.345%. W/O Hemsky in the lineup we are 7W 7L 3otl for a 0.500%.

With Horcoff in the lineup we are 15W 16L 4ot for a 0.486%. W/O Horcoff in the lineup we are 4W 16L 4otl for a 0.231%.

For most of the season anyway, Hemsky hasn't been carrying the team or Horcoff, it has been the other way around. Of course Hemsky has sick skill and is a solid player, but his presence in the lineup hasn't equated to team success consistently.

Hemsky has been on a tear the last 4 or 5 games and I don't think it has been a coincidence his stellar play has coincided with trade rumours flying and scouts in the building either. Showcasing himself to get moved to a contender me thinks.

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#136 Max Powers - Team HME Evans
February 22 2011, 12:06PM
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Hey LT,

Question about the Neal/Goligoski trade:

Since this seems to baffle most, I was wondering what your take is. Is Goligoski THAT underrated? Neal THAT overrated? Or is it just a weirdly-timed salary dump?

Dallas could not have packed it in already. This is a head scratcher.

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#137 Coco Crsip
February 22 2011, 12:29PM
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What happens if Oil get Schenn in a deal with LAK? Who do we draft? i would say couturier still...

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#138 Archaeologuy
February 22 2011, 12:38PM
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@Coco Crsip

I would be happy with that scenario. All of a sudden the Oilers' future at C wouldnt look so grim.

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#139 positivebrontefan
February 22 2011, 12:53PM
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Drago wrote:

What has become abundantly clear is that Steve Tambellini HAS NO intentions of actually trading Ales Hemsky.

Hemsky is playing motivated and his best hockey in a while and being the best offensive player remaining on the market there is considerable interest in him.

It has been reported that Tambellini is asking for the world from other GM's to trade them Hemsky. This is a smart ploy, if a team is willing to pay this steep asking price then of course Tambellini would pull the trigger but its highly unlikely a team would give up that much with cap restrictions and Hemsky's injury history.

A scenario I can see is that Tambellini has made Hemsky seem so expensive that the person he is really trying to move, Dustin Penner, would be seen as a cheaper acquisition by comparison but would still net a favourable return for the Oilers.

Just my two cents.

I like how you think.

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#140 positivebrontefan
February 22 2011, 01:36PM
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How about Gagner and Smid for Stastny. Like Gagner he had a great rookie season but tailed off since. Maybe a change of scenery for both would be what's needed?

I'm a dreamer...I know.

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#141 FastOil
February 23 2011, 10:47PM
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Kodiak wrote:

Are we really going to miss Hemsky that much? Is he really that much of a difference maker?

With Hemsky in the lineup we are 12W 25L 5otl for a 0.345%. W/O Hemsky in the lineup we are 7W 7L 3otl for a 0.500%.

With Horcoff in the lineup we are 15W 16L 4ot for a 0.486%. W/O Horcoff in the lineup we are 4W 16L 4otl for a 0.231%.

For most of the season anyway, Hemsky hasn't been carrying the team or Horcoff, it has been the other way around. Of course Hemsky has sick skill and is a solid player, but his presence in the lineup hasn't equated to team success consistently.

Hemsky has been on a tear the last 4 or 5 games and I don't think it has been a coincidence his stellar play has coincided with trade rumours flying and scouts in the building either. Showcasing himself to get moved to a contender me thinks.

Your well taken point shows that a proper centre (which Horcoff is) has far more value than a skilled winger usually. Gagner has miles to go, Cogliano is rounding out faster (despite not having the pampering of Gagner) but will likely never be better than a serviceable #2 or good #3.

Addressing the #1 C thing is the biggest priority if this team is ever going to capitalize on the talent that has arrived, more so than a #1 D. We have enough talent aboard back end and in the system to see the D stabilize over the next few years without an acquisition.

We can win with a balanced if unspectacular D as Vancouver does. We will not win with what we have at centre, so if moving Penner or Hemsky brings that, even with the #1 pick and both wanting to stay, it has to be done.

Even if we draft a centre none of the top 3 this year (or anyone coming up) are sure fire elite so ST should be ready to pull the trigger if the chance arises. Trading for a top D would be a quicker route than drafting at that position and can come after - we'll have offensive D and forwards to trade - the chips are there.

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