Bring Back The Electric Norseman!

Jonathan Willis
February 07 2011 01:29PM

Once again, Patrick Thoresen wants to return to the NHL. He tried to land an NHL job last year and was unsuccessful after a spectacular KHL season, so this year he went out and had a more spectacular KHL season. This is a guy who deserves another crack at an NHL job.

Normally, for a player like this who was a defensive specialist the last time he played in the NHL, I’d be busting out the advanced statistics. For Thoresen, I don’t need to (although his are superb); I watched nearly every game he played as a member of the Edmonton Oilers. Defensively, his positioning was as good as any player on the team. He never backed down from a physical battle, he forechecked like a demon, and there could never be any doubt about his work ethic or intensity. Aside from his size, he was the kind of fourth-liner every coach dreams of.

Thoresen’s problem at the NHL level was producing offence. At 17, he came over to the QMJHL and spent two seasons playing major junior hockey in Canada, scoring 73 points in 60 games as a rookie and following that up with 108 points in 71 games the year after. Along the way he was stellar for Norway’s U-18 and U-20 international teams. He went over to Sweden, starting in the Allsvenskan before moving up to the Swedish Elite League for two seasons. In his second year he scored 36 points in 50 games, which was enough to convince the Edmonton Oilers to bring him over and give him a shot at an NHL job.

Thoresen produced relatively well at the AHL level, but managed only six goals and 24 points in a little over 100 games in the NHL. After two seasons, he couldn’t get another NHL job and was forced over to the KHL.

Thoresen’s been a revelation in the KHL. In 107 points in the world’s second-best league, he’s scored 51 times (remarkably, 42 of those goals came at even-strength) and added 66 helpers for a total of 117 points. Along the way, he went plus-63. He’s turned into a faceoff-winning machine over there; with a 55.2% success rate on 754 face-offs. He’s playing in all situations, and finished with a little under 18:00 per game this last season. He’s also been a staple for international Norwegian teams, managing a point per game at last year’s World Championships and five assists in four Olympic games in 2010.

Despite all the success Thoresen has had in the KHL, that’s not where he wants to be. In May of last season, Thoresen explained why he’d be willing to take a massive pay-cut to return to the NHL:

“I know I can score 20-25 goals in the NHL. If so, I’m going to earn the lost money and play in the NHL for many years. I have faith in myself and know what kind of potential I have.”

At 27 years of age, Thoresen’s been a bit of a late-bloomer offensively but he’s still a young man. He’s shown drive, grit and defensive responsibility at the NHL level before. His scoring has shot off the charts since his jump to the KHL, and could represent a major step forward from his last stint in North America. He’s added faceoff ability to his repertoire. Beyond that, all it will take to get him over here is a one-way deal near the league minimum.

This seems to me like a no-brainer. It’s time for someone to take a chance and bring back the Electric Norseman.

74b7cedc5d8bfbe88cf071309e98d2c3
Jonathan Willis is a freelance writer. He currently works for Oilers Nation, the Edmonton Journal and Bleacher Report. He's co-written three books and worked for myriad websites, including Grantland, ESPN, The Score, and Hockey Prospectus. He was previously the founder and managing editor of Copper & Blue.
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#51 Wax Man Riley
February 07 2011, 03:47PM
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@baggedmilk

Yes, there is that post. It also says:

"The problem is that the Oilers are burning a year of Paajarvi’s entry-level contract while he isn’t a difference maker to give him limited NHL minutes, when they could be saving that year for when he’s a better player and giving him virtually unlimited minutes in the SEL or AHL. From a cap management and development perspective, that strikes me as flawed thinking."

Including the AHL. I agree. It's not that I don't like Pääjärvi, I think he is a good player and will be a very, very good player. He also has shown more confidence lately, and it shows in his game. I also think a year in the AHL would have let him do that and with game-deciding minutes.

The year of the ELC isn't really a concern to me.

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#52 Marc
February 07 2011, 03:52PM
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@Wax Man Riley

Which current Red Wing prospects who are clearly better than the players on the roster? For that matter, which former Red Wings prospects were kept in the minors for a year or more while inferior players were on the NHL roster?

It's one thing to keep players in the minors because they can't beat out any of the players on your roster for a spot. It's quite another to keep a player in the minors, despite the fact that he's better than some of the players on the NHL roster, just so he doesn't start his ELC.

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#53 KB
February 07 2011, 03:54PM
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@John Chambers

"I think what generally irritates me about this article and your banter with BM is that you state your opinion as if it's fact."

I would have to agree with this comment.

Still, maybe Thoresen is worth taking a look at for next year. Maybe I'm wrong, but wouldn't he have to clear waivers this year (like Nabokov)?

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#54 justanamateur
February 07 2011, 03:56PM
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I am not sure who they are thinking will be our top checking center next year. But a guy that costs next to nothing, has 55% in the dot, gives up very little and has a lot of jam might be an upgrade over say cogs or COLIN FRASER

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#55 Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach
February 07 2011, 03:58PM
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Not that I have anything against bringing him in, I'd still like to bring in a proven NHL two-way forward. Not another I did well at every level other than the NHL guy.

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#57 Ales Hallsky
February 07 2011, 04:05PM
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There is also a dude with 110mph slapper in the KHL and no one wants him. All this fuss about a Norseman and its not Vikingstad!!

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#58 Ender
February 07 2011, 04:06PM
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Anyone here remember that great-old original Nintendo game game, Dr. Mario? I used to love that game. Played it for hours. No one would play me because I'd set up elaborate drops where my opponent would just start making progress and then the heavens would open with trash dumps all over him . . . ah, good times. I digress.

The ulimate challenge on that game was to beat level 20 on high-speed. It was pretty hard; from the beginning of that level, there was no room for error. I eventually got to the point where I could beat it just about every time. Know how I got that good?

By practicing on level 20-high, over and over and over again.

Practicing lower levels didn't teach me how precise I had to be right out of the gate. Practicing slower speeds didn't teach me how to let my reflexes make the decisions instead of my brain. Only by playing at the highest level of difficulty was I able to perfect the highest level of difficulty.

This thread has been completely hijacked from it's original topic, and since I've already gone on record as saying I support Jon in his notion that Patrick Thoreson should return to the NHL (and I say the Oilers), I'll throw out my 2-cents on Pääjärvi's ELC as well. Playing in the AHL or SEL might not have hurt Magnus' development, but I don't think it would have helped him as much as doing the real thing here every day. It's not all about the gametime he sees with the Oilers. Every practice, every optional skate, he gets better here than he would doing similar things elsewhere. It sucks that we'll have to pay him more down the line maybe a year earlier, but he's going to be better a year earlier because of it.

None of this, by the way, has anything to do with Patrick Thoreson's situation. Apples and oranges.

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#59 Ales Hallsky
February 07 2011, 04:08PM
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Ender wrote:

Anyone here remember that great-old original Nintendo game game, Dr. Mario? I used to love that game. Played it for hours. No one would play me because I'd set up elaborate drops where my opponent would just start making progress and then the heavens would open with trash dumps all over him . . . ah, good times. I digress.

The ulimate challenge on that game was to beat level 20 on high-speed. It was pretty hard; from the beginning of that level, there was no room for error. I eventually got to the point where I could beat it just about every time. Know how I got that good?

By practicing on level 20-high, over and over and over again.

Practicing lower levels didn't teach me how precise I had to be right out of the gate. Practicing slower speeds didn't teach me how to let my reflexes make the decisions instead of my brain. Only by playing at the highest level of difficulty was I able to perfect the highest level of difficulty.

This thread has been completely hijacked from it's original topic, and since I've already gone on record as saying I support Jon in his notion that Patrick Thoreson should return to the NHL (and I say the Oilers), I'll throw out my 2-cents on Pääjärvi's ELC as well. Playing in the AHL or SEL might not have hurt Magnus' development, but I don't think it would have helped him as much as doing the real thing here every day. It's not all about the gametime he sees with the Oilers. Every practice, every optional skate, he gets better here than he would doing similar things elsewhere. It sucks that we'll have to pay him more down the line maybe a year earlier, but he's going to be better a year earlier because of it.

None of this, by the way, has anything to do with Patrick Thoreson's situation. Apples and oranges.

Sheldon Souray agrees with this post.

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#60 TigerUnderGlass
February 07 2011, 04:13PM
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@John Chambers

avoid making statements such as "This guy deserves another crack at an NHL job"....you're a much more intersting read when you cite facts as opposed to sensationalizing your point of view.

I think what generally irritates me about this article and your banter with BM is that you state your opinion as if it's fact...you're not in an "expert" position to make such bold statements, and therefore should refrain from doing so.

Doesn't questioning the logic of an article make one the antithesis of an automaton?

1. Stating his opinion that he deserves another crack is sensationalizing his point of view? You must have seizures when you accidentally see a tabloid cover.

2. That something is a matter of opinion does not require the words "I think" or "in my opinion" to precede every statement. After all, you're sitting there telling JW he is much too bold rather than suggesting that it might be possible in your humble opinion that as long as the experts agree he could possibly maybe be a little too forward in his suggestions.

3. Why does someone need to be an "expert to have a strong opinion? If I break a finger am I not allowed to tell anyone it's broken without a doctors opinion?

4. You didn't question the logic of the article. You questioned how JW chose to phrase his opinions. One makes for interesting debate, the other makes you look like an a$$.

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#61 Ender
February 07 2011, 04:14PM
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Ales Hallsky wrote:

Sheldon Souray agrees with this post.

~Damn it; then I have to rewrite it.~

Seriously, I don't think anyone honestly believes that playing in junior is good for Souray's game. He's there because he's being punished, not because he's being groomed. If the Oilers could have found a way to make him play with rocks in his skates, I think they would have.

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#62 Ales Hallsky
February 07 2011, 04:17PM
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@Ender

Thats why his foot speed is shot. Practising at level 10.

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#63 Ender
February 07 2011, 04:22PM
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@Ales Hallsky

Well, I'm glad I don't have to be impartial like the MSM. Logic of the situation and justifications aside, I giggle my ass off every time I think about the impending demise of Souray's career. Reap what you sow, Souray, you arrogant bastage.

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#64 John Chambers
February 07 2011, 04:25PM
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@Jonathan Willis

I thought the "Paajarvi Should've Been Held Back a Year" reference was appropriate for one reason:

When constructing an article based on opinion, it's important for the author to make explicit what is their opinion, and what is fact. Framing your point of view with phrasing such as "In my opinion", "based on these facts I conclude", or "the evidence suggests", posits that you are conveying your point of view.

However, boldly stating things like "Penner is fat", "Tambellini is dumb", "Chinese Walruses can't play hockey", evidenced by the title to your Paajarvi article, or several points that appear in the above article, you display your opinion as being a fact. This is why myself and BaggedMilk seem so compelled to debate your "facts".

I like your articles, Willis. Several of them have made me re-think the way I see the game or evaluate players. But I think you can be a better journalist by staying clear of broad-sweeping claims like "Paajarvi should've ...", and rather pose a question such as "Should Paajarvi have been held back", then provide support for your position.

"Could we see Patrick Thoresen back in the NHL based on his performance in the KHL?" would've been a better thesis.

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#65 Dman09
February 07 2011, 04:29PM
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I have to say Souray made this what it is. Its not the Oiler's fault that no one wanted to trade for him and its still not their fault that no one is willing to take him for half of his salary. Even when/if the oilers buyout his contract, will there be any team willing to sign him?

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#66 Captain Obvious
February 07 2011, 04:34PM
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"It’s time for someone to take a chance and bring back the Electric Norseman."

That's his thesis. This is a thesis that is supported by all of the facts in evidence. You have introduced neither a logical reason to dispute the links between these facts nor any countervailing facts. Hence your objection to this thesis is supported by neither evidence nor reason. It is obstinacy born out of an instinctive reaction and nothing else.

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#67 Dman09
February 07 2011, 04:36PM
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Captain Obvious wrote:

"It’s time for someone to take a chance and bring back the Electric Norseman."

That's his thesis. This is a thesis that is supported by all of the facts in evidence. You have introduced neither a logical reason to dispute the links between these facts nor any countervailing facts. Hence your objection to this thesis is supported by neither evidence nor reason. It is obstinacy born out of an instinctive reaction and nothing else.

Perfectly stated.

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#68 Wax Man Riley
February 07 2011, 04:52PM
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Marc wrote:

Which current Red Wing prospects who are clearly better than the players on the roster? For that matter, which former Red Wings prospects were kept in the minors for a year or more while inferior players were on the NHL roster?

It's one thing to keep players in the minors because they can't beat out any of the players on your roster for a spot. It's quite another to keep a player in the minors, despite the fact that he's better than some of the players on the NHL roster, just so he doesn't start his ELC.

I didn't say they were there while inferior players were playing on the club. What I meant is that Detroit seems not to insert their young players into their lineup until they have had some seasoning.

Datsyuk: Drafted in 1998, played a year with the Wings in 2001/2002

Zetterberg: Drafted in 1999, played a year in 2002/2003

Abdelkader: Drafted in 2005, played a year in '07/'08

Hudler: Drafted in 2002, played 12 games in '03/'04, played a year in '06/'07

Kronwall: Drafted in 2000: Had a couple of stints with the big club in '03/'04 and '05/'06 but not a regular shift until '06/'07

They were brought along slowly. People still complain that Gagner and Cogliano were brought in too soon. With the rookies in the lineup already this year, Pääjärvi could have developed playing top minutes in th AHL this year.

He is on the team now, and doing well and in no way am I saying his development was stunted coming straight here. His TC said he needed a shot here. I think Omark had some benefit from the AHL this year.

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#69 Clyde Frog
February 07 2011, 05:10PM
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We are a last place team, losing twice as many games as we win. How anyone could possibly say NO! to any player who is performing well or has an upside that we can aquire for NOTHING is well beyond me...

But there are enough of the aformentioned posts to make me smash my head into the keyboard.

How the Oilers are so quiet on the waiver wire is beyond me as well, but then again I am not being paid in giant bags of money to make decisions for a national hockey league franchise...

If the opportunity cost is non-existant how can anyone say "not my team!"? Is our 2nd, 3rd or 4th lines winning so many games that we just can't demote ANY of these superstars?

/facepalm

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#70 John Chambers
February 07 2011, 05:14PM
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Captain Obvious wrote:

"It’s time for someone to take a chance and bring back the Electric Norseman."

That's his thesis. This is a thesis that is supported by all of the facts in evidence. You have introduced neither a logical reason to dispute the links between these facts nor any countervailing facts. Hence your objection to this thesis is supported by neither evidence nor reason. It is obstinacy born out of an instinctive reaction and nothing else.

I'm not criticizing the article because I want to be an ass. I'm criticizing it because I know Willis can be better.

Young hockey players, journalists, CEO's, etc can all benefit from a challenge, or some insightful criticism. It's not always a pissing contest. This however was not a strong piece.

I'm not convinced that Patrick Thoresen, after proving his offensive abilities in every league except the NHL is really going to come back and take the world's best league by storm. Willis is. We differ in opinion. I only ask that as a budding journalist he take a position and be prepared to debate his. That to me seems to be a fair and responsible goal for an editorialist.

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#71 Archaeologuy
February 07 2011, 05:20PM
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John Chambers wrote:

I thought the "Paajarvi Should've Been Held Back a Year" reference was appropriate for one reason:

When constructing an article based on opinion, it's important for the author to make explicit what is their opinion, and what is fact. Framing your point of view with phrasing such as "In my opinion", "based on these facts I conclude", or "the evidence suggests", posits that you are conveying your point of view.

However, boldly stating things like "Penner is fat", "Tambellini is dumb", "Chinese Walruses can't play hockey", evidenced by the title to your Paajarvi article, or several points that appear in the above article, you display your opinion as being a fact. This is why myself and BaggedMilk seem so compelled to debate your "facts".

I like your articles, Willis. Several of them have made me re-think the way I see the game or evaluate players. But I think you can be a better journalist by staying clear of broad-sweeping claims like "Paajarvi should've ...", and rather pose a question such as "Should Paajarvi have been held back", then provide support for your position.

"Could we see Patrick Thoresen back in the NHL based on his performance in the KHL?" would've been a better thesis.

You keep on suggesting that Willis is a Journalist as if he is a credited member of the media, or went to J-School, or even claims to be a Journalist the way Dr. Phil claims to be a Doctor.

He isnt, he didnt, he doesnt. He is a blogger, and a damned fine one. That is all.

Interestingly, you also appear to be giving a man who writes proffesionally a lesson in writing. I find this about as hilarious as me teaching Roy Halladay how to throw curve-ball.

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#72 stevezie
February 07 2011, 05:31PM
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I've read a few people asking what the NHL equivalencies of his numbers are. I don't know Babs, but I do know this: he's tied for second in league scoring. He's outscoring Yashin, Jagr, every other KHL player your care to name except Radulov or Cervenka. This does not mean he will light up the NHL, but it is clearly an impressive accomplishment.
You could argue the time doesn't need more small players, you could argue that there's no way that he could be worse than Fraser, but I don't see how you could argue that a solid defensive player with a great attitude and skill on the dot doesn't put himself in contention for an NHL job when he ties for second in the world's second best league's scoring race. Forget what you think about Paajarvi, or Willis- try to argue that the player I just described doesn't deserve a few looks this summer. I'd love to hear it.

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#73 Godzilla
February 07 2011, 05:32PM
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I really hope Thor finds a job in the NHL, just not with the Oilers.

But did you think about Jozef Vasicek JW? He's posting pretty good KHL numbers too, specially in the faceoff circle.

He's much bigger than Thor and he's a czek. Could probably help Hemsky to want to stick around a little longer.

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#75 baggedmilk
February 07 2011, 05:33PM
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Jonathan Willis wrote:

@ baggedmilk:

I'm not especially interested in rehashing my take on Paajarvi. I wrote the article, had my say, and other people had theirs.

This is an article about Thoresen. A more relevant argument would be about the great value provided by Colin Fraser, JF Jacques or how Ryan O'Marra needs an NHL job. Those are the kind of guys Thoresen could replace.

Nobody - other than you - ever connected Thoresen to Paajarvi.

Never did I say Thoresen would take Paajarvi's spot or anyone else on the roster, how are you coming to that conclusion? My connecting the Paajarvi article to today's Thoresen piece is a "here we go again" look at what you've written lately. Stop getting so offended when someone disagrees with you.

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#78 baggedmilk
February 07 2011, 05:48PM
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@Jonathan Willis

Yes Willis, I'm personally attacking you on the Internet to invalidate your opinion. Now you're reaching, but hey, which straw did I get? I'm guessing if you're playing too, it's the short one.

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#79 Jamie B.
February 07 2011, 06:01PM
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Ender wrote:

@Harlie

Jamie, I hear what you're saying, and it's an ok point to make. I also want you to know I'm a Reddox fan, so I mean absolutely no disrespect to Rudy when I say this:

In his wildest fantasies, Reddox is not capable of being the second-best player in the KHL. Reddox is a good soldier, but Thor is a better one.

Fair. I just think that guys who don't make it in the NHL don't make it for a reason. The KHL is a different league with a different style of game. There's a different amount of time and space and you only have to read Paajarvi's recent comments about how much the smaller rink changes the game from the way he played in Sweden to know what I'm talking about.

Is it impossible for a guy to do well in both leagues? Of course not. Do I think Patrick Thoresen at age 27 has suddenly developed the skize and skills to score 20 goals in the NHL in anything short of a "Petr Prucha scoring 30 goals on a power play with Jagr" situation? I do not.

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#80 Bucknuck
February 07 2011, 06:15PM
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What did Willis do to get such antagonistic snotty comments directed his way. I can't figure it out.

The guy gets paid to write his opinions; he writes them. We can agree or disagree and carry on with our lives. I love the debate. I like thinking about possibilities.

I disagree that Paajarvi should have been put into the minors this year, but i don't resent the fact that JW disagrees with me. I just figure that it's an interesting discussion.

We are all fans of the same team here, folks. Keep your stick on the ice. Tip a glass, eat some popcorn, and chill out.

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#81 Captain Obvious
February 07 2011, 06:25PM
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Jamie B. wrote:

Fair. I just think that guys who don't make it in the NHL don't make it for a reason. The KHL is a different league with a different style of game. There's a different amount of time and space and you only have to read Paajarvi's recent comments about how much the smaller rink changes the game from the way he played in Sweden to know what I'm talking about.

Is it impossible for a guy to do well in both leagues? Of course not. Do I think Patrick Thoresen at age 27 has suddenly developed the skize and skills to score 20 goals in the NHL in anything short of a "Petr Prucha scoring 30 goals on a power play with Jagr" situation? I do not.

You may think this but you are wrong. 100% of the top players in the KHL would be quality NHL players. There is no such thing as a KHL star who can't play in the NHL.

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#82 David S
February 07 2011, 06:33PM
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@ Jonathan and Baggedmilk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=js_32tdy2kQ

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#83 Oilcruzer
February 07 2011, 06:59PM
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Horcsky wrote:

I know I'd rather have Patrick Thoresan than Colin Fraser, or Steve Macintyre (based solely on the fact that the coach refuses to play big Mac). He's probably also better than JF Jacques and Ryan O'Marra.

Not sure what's with the outrage. It's not like you sit Magnus if Thoresan comes back.

Good thing someone pointed out the obvious. Thanks.

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#84 upper-deck-drunk
February 07 2011, 07:01PM
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Wow JW you must have pissed a few people off about something. Right from the beginning it seemed to me that you were being attacked. Just to clarify this is only MY OPINION!!

On Thor, why not give the guy a shot. Whats the worst that can happen. I don't know if people have noticed but we suck basketballs!

This place is getting very negative i hope the people that figure debating equals attacking grow up. It a feckin blog people!

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#85 Crash
February 07 2011, 07:42PM
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No, to another Patrick Thoresen stint..this team doesn't need Patrick Thoresen...this team needs Ben Eager, Chris Neil, Zenon Kenopka, Kevin Bieksa

Maybe someone out there can use Patrick Thoresen, but I highly doubt Thoresen will bring much more to the NHL than he brought before...

After reading extensively JW's many opinions my feeling is, with a guy who berated the Oilers for not resigning Fernando Pisani, not bringing Souray back here even after his me first atttitude and complaining that the Oilers didn't sign Dominic Moore I'm inclined to think that Thoresen would likely be a bust back in the NHL.

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#86 Clyde Frog
February 07 2011, 08:02PM
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Seriously?

So a 30th place team has NO room for trying a player that is having incredible success in another league... What can the team possibly lose by signing him and giving him a shot, oh wait... NOTHING... I can totally see the logic in avoiding trying new players, cause you wouldn't possibly want to lose out on NOTHING.

We need more grit? That is the only solution?

Too bad games aren't won by scoring more goals... Oh... wait...

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#87 stevezie
February 07 2011, 08:04PM
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@Crash

You don't think Dominic Moore would help this team? Well you're crazy, but that's no sin.
You're making the same mistake Bagged Milk is: you're writing off this new opinion because you didn't like some past ones. Anyone who is a good skater, defensive player, face-off man and energy guy who is capable of dominating in KHL can play in the NHL. No one is saying he'll make all-star teams, and he might not fit in Edmonton, but he can play.

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#88 Crash
February 07 2011, 08:46PM
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stevezie wrote:

You don't think Dominic Moore would help this team? Well you're crazy, but that's no sin.
You're making the same mistake Bagged Milk is: you're writing off this new opinion because you didn't like some past ones. Anyone who is a good skater, defensive player, face-off man and energy guy who is capable of dominating in KHL can play in the NHL. No one is saying he'll make all-star teams, and he might not fit in Edmonton, but he can play.

Are you not writing off our opinions? My opinion is Patrick Thoresen does nothing to help this team get better.

I'm not making any mistake, I gave you my opinion. So it's ok for JW to have an opinion but mine is not valid?

My opinion is Thoresen will not have any impact of note on any team in the NHL despite whatever it is he does in the KHL. I think you're a bit loony to think he would.

And no, I don't think Dominic Moore would have done thing one for this team. He would have been another Colin Fraser, only older. Another smallish forward who is bad defensively, doesn't hit, doesn't fight, doesn't score, isn't a set up guy. What has he done with Tampa, a strong team no less? Check out his minus 16 rating.

That would have worked out well here.

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#89 Crash
February 07 2011, 08:53PM
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Clyde Frog wrote:

Seriously?

So a 30th place team has NO room for trying a player that is having incredible success in another league... What can the team possibly lose by signing him and giving him a shot, oh wait... NOTHING... I can totally see the logic in avoiding trying new players, cause you wouldn't possibly want to lose out on NOTHING.

We need more grit? That is the only solution?

Too bad games aren't won by scoring more goals... Oh... wait...

Yes seriously,

The Oilers don't need to be wasting their time with reclamation projects and need to move on to the things they really need.

No grit isn't the only thing, they need a good d-man or two as well....They are set up nicely going forward with skill forwards and are about to add another one at the June draft. A bit more nasty and a d-man or two and things will be looking up.

What could they possibly lose by signing Thoresen? Oh how about they would be bringing in someone who can't cut it in the NHL and has proven as much. Thus he would be taking a spot away from someone who really needs it (ie: Paajarvi) or from someone who would actually make the team better.

Thoresen would not make the team better and he is yet another smallish forward who wouldn't help the team from having their show run one iota.

Talk about taking this team backwards or at the very best, sideways....brilliant.

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#90 BarryS
February 07 2011, 09:12PM
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Does not the KHL use the bigger European Ice Surface? Playing on smaller ice is harder than playing on bigger, the game is marginally slower in Europe. Its taken Paajarvi and Omark time to get used to the more crowded NHL ice, to say nothing of the hitting.

How do you figure larger ice and less hitting into Thoresen's better play? And what quality of faceoff men has he faced?

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#91 Clyde Frog
February 07 2011, 09:13PM
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@Crash

Lol, spoken like a true internet hero.

You don't lose anything, if he doesn't play his way onto the team he is in the AHL or claimed off waivers. Again, you can't actually lose anything by giving him a shot.

To take an obstinate stance that for him to be on the Oilers we MUST drop our future to AHL which would only destroy our team is a joke. If he didn't make the team better why would they keep him and put down Paarjvi, fraser or Jacques?

We are a 30th place team, our 4th line is a joke, our 3rd line is a joke and on certain nights our second line can be a joke. Our Powerplay is worst in the league, our Penalty kill is right down there as well...

So again, taking ANY player that is fighting for top spot in a professional league with out actually giving anything up except a possible spot on the 30th place roster in the NHL cannot be a definition of a loss at all. Either you sign him and let him play his way onto the team thus improving the club OR you sign him, he doesn't crack the squad and you have someone in the AHL with NHL experience waiting for an injury call up. Yeah thats all kinds of horrible right there....

We are the worst team in the league, that does mean there is something disfunctional with our roster... You don't get last place 2 years in a row by being having a great line-up that is working well together and you don't get out of it by passing on opportunity.

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#92 Crash
February 07 2011, 09:19PM
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Clyde Frog wrote:

Lol, spoken like a true internet hero.

You don't lose anything, if he doesn't play his way onto the team he is in the AHL or claimed off waivers. Again, you can't actually lose anything by giving him a shot.

To take an obstinate stance that for him to be on the Oilers we MUST drop our future to AHL which would only destroy our team is a joke. If he didn't make the team better why would they keep him and put down Paarjvi, fraser or Jacques?

We are a 30th place team, our 4th line is a joke, our 3rd line is a joke and on certain nights our second line can be a joke. Our Powerplay is worst in the league, our Penalty kill is right down there as well...

So again, taking ANY player that is fighting for top spot in a professional league with out actually giving anything up except a possible spot on the 30th place roster in the NHL cannot be a definition of a loss at all. Either you sign him and let him play his way onto the team thus improving the club OR you sign him, he doesn't crack the squad and you have someone in the AHL with NHL experience waiting for an injury call up. Yeah thats all kinds of horrible right there....

We are the worst team in the league, that does mean there is something disfunctional with our roster... You don't get last place 2 years in a row by being having a great line-up that is working well together and you don't get out of it by passing on opportunity.

Huh?, internet hero? Ok, if you say so.

Perhaps you didn't notice, Thoresen already played here and in other NHL cities and he was a joke...so you want to replace guys that are a joke with a guy that is a joke...

Nice

We'll see how many teams are lined up to get Thoresen....my bet is the list is short.

What you do to get out of being last is address your needs, not add more junk.

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#93 stevezie
February 07 2011, 09:28PM
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@Crash

Well Moore does have six times as many points as Fraser, and while I will admit to having missed most of the Tampa games this year, when Moore was with the Habs he hit, hustled and scored. He was also one of the best players on a bad Leafs team a couple years ago, and he's played 400+ games. I think that makes him more qualified than Fraser. You're right about him not being a difference maker though.
It seemed like your problems weren't with JW's current opinion, it was with his past ones. My problem with your opinion is that its wrong, all on its own. Not dramatically wrong; Thoresen might not be great, but he's obviously at least the tenth best forward on this team.

How was he a joke? Why are you ignoring that he is dominating a very good league? How many fourth liners would go to the KHL and do that?

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#94 Crash
February 07 2011, 09:35PM
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stevezie wrote:

Well Moore does have six times as many points as Fraser, and while I will admit to having missed most of the Tampa games this year, when Moore was with the Habs he hit, hustled and scored. He was also one of the best players on a bad Leafs team a couple years ago, and he's played 400+ games. I think that makes him more qualified than Fraser. You're right about him not being a difference maker though.
It seemed like your problems weren't with JW's current opinion, it was with his past ones. My problem with your opinion is that its wrong, all on its own. Not dramatically wrong; Thoresen might not be great, but he's obviously at least the tenth best forward on this team.

How was he a joke? Why are you ignoring that he is dominating a very good league? How many fourth liners would go to the KHL and do that?

Fraser has a Stanley Cup ring too....does that make him a star?

Yes, I have seen enough of JW's opinions to know that I don't share many of them.

So does this discussion get any better by me saying, my problem with your opinon is that you're wrong?

And how is it that Thoresen is obviously the tenth best forward on this team? Please show me the evidence on that because the last time I saw Thoresen nobody in the league wanted him.

Pretty much all of the guys who are leading the KHL are NHL castoffs, guys who couldn't cut it or guys who have never made it at all. Matt Ellison is the 10th highest scorer in the KHL for cripes sakes and Jagr is in there and Aleksey Morosov, who was cast off a long time ago. Pavol Demitra is right near the top too....if he was so good why did Vancouver let him go? Why didn't someone pick him up too. Why are you ignoring that Thoresen came and already failed? Why are you ignoring that many of the KHL's top scorers were in the NHL but can't cut it anymore? Why are you ignoring that some of the top scorers in the KHL couldn't even make an NHL roster?

I think you're giving the KHL a bit too much credit.

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#95 Jamie B.
February 07 2011, 09:38PM
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Captain Obvious wrote:

You may think this but you are wrong. 100% of the top players in the KHL would be quality NHL players. There is no such thing as a KHL star who can't play in the NHL.

Please point out to me where I said Thoresen couldn't play in the NHL. Of course he could, he already has!

What I disagree with is Thoresen saying, "I know I can score 20-25 goals in the NHL." If I thought he could do that, yes, he would be an upgrade over Reddox/Brule/Cogliano. Good for him for having confidence but I'm not buying it. If he proves me wrong I'll be happy to say so.

As for your 100% claim, well, I have no idea how we'd prove that one way or the other so we can agree to (strongly) disagree.

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#96 Clyde Frog
February 07 2011, 09:48PM
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So other than the fact that you don't like the kid do you have ANY basis to not giving him a shot on the worst team in the league? No?

Obstinance for the sake of obstinance, awesome!

To think it was only months ago everyone was having the exact opposite argument about Omark... Sure he didn't light it up in the KHL, but that was his team, the game, the coaching and on and on it went. Good thing we passed on him to, wouldn't want to let another smallish player near this roster. Using the logic of just cause, we might have to demote Taylor Hall to AHL to make room! Oh wait...

Yet here is a player that is actually performing well, fighting for top spot in the league! Oh no! Don't give him a shot, oh god he might replace one of the players on the worst team in the NHL! Oh noes!!!!

We already played him in a 4th line role, players can't develop! Please ignore, Cleary, Whitney, Franzen, Datsuk and the rest... That would never happen again! (Not saying he is a guaranteed 100 point man, but there is a definite shot he could better Fraser's 4 points...) He isn't gritty enough all he is doing is scoring goals, putting up points, playing defensively and winning faceoffs... How could we ever find a spot for that on this team, you can't tinker with a team like this.

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#97 Crash
February 07 2011, 10:10PM
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Clyde Frog wrote:

So other than the fact that you don't like the kid do you have ANY basis to not giving him a shot on the worst team in the league? No?

Obstinance for the sake of obstinance, awesome!

To think it was only months ago everyone was having the exact opposite argument about Omark... Sure he didn't light it up in the KHL, but that was his team, the game, the coaching and on and on it went. Good thing we passed on him to, wouldn't want to let another smallish player near this roster. Using the logic of just cause, we might have to demote Taylor Hall to AHL to make room! Oh wait...

Yet here is a player that is actually performing well, fighting for top spot in the league! Oh no! Don't give him a shot, oh god he might replace one of the players on the worst team in the NHL! Oh noes!!!!

We already played him in a 4th line role, players can't develop! Please ignore, Cleary, Whitney, Franzen, Datsuk and the rest... That would never happen again! (Not saying he is a guaranteed 100 point man, but there is a definite shot he could better Fraser's 4 points...) He isn't gritty enough all he is doing is scoring goals, putting up points, playing defensively and winning faceoffs... How could we ever find a spot for that on this team, you can't tinker with a team like this.

You're something else, quite a bit condescending, no? I could also accuse you of obstinance, no? Once again, this team has needs....show me where I said this team doesn't need to be tinkered with.

Omark is getting his shot now....he's just starting and while it's early it looks like he just may have the jam to play in this league.

I have nothing against Thoresen, I'm just telling you, in my opinion he can't make it here, in this league, he doesn't have it. He showed us that already. This team has enough small skilled forwards and all of them are better options than Thoresen.

This team has needs, I already spelled out my thoughts on that...this team should NOT stand pat as is. Is there anyway I can say that louder so that you hear it? So that you know I'm not saying this team shouldn't be tinkered with.

This team needs some nasty, this team needs some push back, this team needs some d-men.

This team does not need Thoresen.

I'm out

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#98 Team Hall
February 07 2011, 10:23PM
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Ooohh, feisty tonite, aren't we Mr. Jonathan "Bruce" Willis? I like it. I always liked Thoreson, save the goal he scored against the flames in the last game of the year which cost us the lottery and Patrick Kane. Water under the bridges. A defensive guy like him deserves a spot on our fourth line. It's just that we have too many mighty mites already, we need size. If he could win faceoffs however... Plus, we have a guy just like him named The Red Ox who will deserve a spot next year. Another NHL team should take a shot at Thor though, for sure.

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#99 StrangePhD
February 07 2011, 10:36PM
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And all this time I thought we remembered Thoreson with some fondness... Let's be reasonable though, if he were to find a spot on the Oilers, it would not be at the cost of an Omark or Paajarvi, but of a Jacques or Fraser. I see little reason to doubt that Thoreson is a better player than those two.

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#100 esa tikkanen
February 07 2011, 10:51PM
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JW

Is there a way we can find out faceoff percentage in the KHL? What is Vasicek's?

If I am the Oilers that is who I go after for a one year deal to replace Colin Fraser. He will be 31 in September, three years younger than Marty Reasoner will be. In some ways a perfect age for a fourth line checking player. He is big and won the cup in Carolina in 05. Thanks

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