Vande Velde Van Gogh In the FO Circle

Lowetide
April 03 2011 07:30AM

Chris Vande Velde arrived in pro hockey with a reputation for being a quality performer in the faceoff circle. He's performed well in the discipline in college, the American League and now in a small NHL sample. How valuable is the skill? Will it secure the Dutchman NHL employment?

When he was a junior and then college player, Vande Velde was a go-to guy in the faceoff circle and played the center position with aplomb. His draft day scouting report implied quality, and the earliest glimpse of the type of player we've seen recently in Edmonton:

  • Redline report: He has an incredibly long reach and is uncanny playing in traffic. When he got his skating legs going, he was nearly impossible to push off the puck, in an almost Keith Primeau–like fashion. Like Oshie, North Dakota has VandeVelde slated for the fall of 2006, and until then, he'll skate for the Lincoln Stars.

When Vande Velde turned pro last fall, I felt he'd be the first of the new pro's to emerge (based on age). However, Vande Velde's numbers (62gp, 12-4-16 -17) are not good and the number of minor leaguers recalled ahead of him (Reddox, Omark, O'Marra) suggested there was much to learn.

Doritogrande will be a well known name to Oilogosphere readers and he offered some exceptional insight into Vande Velde in OKC here. Quoting a portion of the post:

  • Chris VandeVelde was pegged as the de-facto checking center tonight, and was given the linemates befitting a player that the coaching staff wants in a defined role. He was able to saw-off the Moose top line of Hodgson-Volpatti-Shirokov with a little help from his friends. He showed good hustle, average speed and good skills in the faceoff dot.

This fits with Todd Nelson's (OKC's coach) viewpoint on the player:

  • His adjustment was learning the pro game. Up until Christmas, he was okay for us. But after Christmas he took it upon himself to play well in his D zone. Along with that, with the more responsibility he got, he began to improve offensively. He's been good for us, he's been excellent in the faceoff circle. He's 1-2 every night, it's either him or O'Marra.  

The entire interview is here. Vande Velde's rookie AHL season has him tied for 105th among rookies in that league, so he's going to have to bring other elements to his game. And that's where we can talk about his size (6.02, 204) and his ability in the faceoff circle.

In a very small sample size (8 games), Vande Velde is 56.7% on the dot (in 97 sorties). He's also gaining the confidence of the coach.

  • Tom Renney: “He’s very reliable. To a point, you expect what he delivers and he does. He’s a little bit predictable in that way, which is a good thing. I’m just tying to give him an opportunity to play in a number of different circumstances and he’s done well.”

The Renney quote (along with more on Vande Velde) is here.

WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN?

Vande Velde is building enough of a resume to be "in the mix" for NHL employment in 11-12. A good bet would be more AHL time but perhaps an earlier recall when injuries or slumps force roster moves. I'd estimate he fits this way into the center depth chart at the pro level:

  1. Shawn Horcoff
  2. Sam Gagner
  3. Andrew Cogliano
  4. Colin Fraser
  5. Chris Vande Velde
  6. Ryan O'Marra
  7. Anton Lander (unsigned)
  8. Milan Kytnar

There are all kinds of things that could change (drafting RNH, moving Hall to center) but as it stands that 4line job should be an interesting contest during TC in the fall. Vande Velde's spring audition puts him in the mix, and his faceoff ability--in a small sample size--may make him a favorite.

C2a6955161684b5e3189319acfa5ebe4
Lowetide has been one of the Oilogosphere's shining lights for over a century. You can check him out here at OilersNation and at lowetide.ca. He is also the host of Lowdown with Lowetide weekday mornings 10-noon on Team 1260.
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#101 magisterrex
April 03 2011, 04:51PM
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Steve Smith wrote:

This isn't a good place for knowledge; I find that it's a much better one for slamming others' opinions, because there's a high concentration of slamworthy opinions here.

Don't believe me that this isn't a great place for knowledge? I just sorted the comments in this thread by props: the top one is "i SECOND that!", followed by one whose main point is "I'm so happy we beat the Canucks last night." A couple of mine are up next, but mostly because I propped them myself.

Now's the part where you ask me why I bother coming around at all: it's to read Willis and Lowetide (and very occasionally Brownlee or Gregor, if they appear to be imparting knowledge obtained from their press passes). I usually manage to resist the comments sections, but they're right there so sometimes it's hard, especially when procrastinating from papers. Besides that, I figure it's incumbent on all of us to take the occasional shift making fun of the "Do you even watch the games" types in Willis's threads; we've all gotta do our parts.

I gave this comment a prop, just because I actually enjoy someone slamming a slamworthy opinion.

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#102 Woodguy
April 03 2011, 05:58PM
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Lowetide wrote:

My eyebrow went askew upon reading that too. :-)

Of course, you should have had a comma after "no."

Ha!

Exactly.

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#103 Robin Brownlee
April 03 2011, 06:02PM
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@Lowetide

Al: from everything I've read, you've got a damn good eye for talent and projecting what prospects might become.

I'm not so sure you need to take the edge off your opinion or gut instinct by making three different references to "small sample" sizes in one item when it comes to VandeVelde and face-offs.

Maybe it's just pre-emptive on your part because there's a squadron of smart guys just waiting to throw out terms like that if you don't mention it, but doesn't something like "Through eights games . . . " mean the very same thing?

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#104 Robin Brownlee
April 03 2011, 06:19PM
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Steve Smith wrote:

Um, until last night they had lost ten straight.

Despite your obviously vast intellect -- I can see why you wouldn't want to take time out from MENSA meetings to post here often -- it was 11 games, not 10. The Oilers had lost 11 straight games before beating Vancouver.

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#105 Robin Brownlee
April 03 2011, 06:31PM
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@Steve Smith

You start counting at the same place everybody else does.

You've graced us with a half-dozen or so comments dripping with "I'm so smart" and you whiffed on a simple fact. Then, you shrug that off. One of those guys, eh? Never saw that coming.

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#106 Robin Brownlee
April 03 2011, 07:04PM
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TigerUnderGlass wrote:

When someone claims the Oilers are playing their best hockey of the season and someone responds with "they have lost 10 in a row" the important part to take away is that the number 10 was off by 1.

That will show you SS...the Oilers ARE playing their best hockey of the season after all.

No, smart guy, the important part is actually citing the correct number of games the Oilers had lost in a row when you've spent an entire comment thread sounding like a smarmy know-it-all.

Your assertion Steve Smith's point -- that the Oilers have been awful -- shouldn't be lost just because he can't add is fine.

That said, your sarcastic "That will show you . . . " bit falls flat. Now, if somebody had chimed in to point out that the Oilers had only lost nine in a row after Smith said it was 10, like that mitigated the sucking, you'd have something. Pointing out it was 11 games? Not so much. Not at all, actually.

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#107 Mitch
April 03 2011, 07:18PM
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Forward lines next yr could look something like this 1.Hall Horcoff Hemsky 2.Pajarrvi Lander Omark 3.Hartikienen Cogliano Eberle 4.Jacques Vande Velde Jones Defence 1.Whitney Trade 2.Vandermeer Petry 3.Peckham UFA I see 3 centres that are very good in the faceoff circle. I see more balance in the 3 and 4th lines. Gagner is not there because I would use him to acquire a dman. Maybe I'm crazy but I would also move Gilbert and Smid out on the backend.

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#108 TigerUnderGlass
April 03 2011, 07:29PM
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Robin Brownlee wrote:

No, smart guy, the important part is actually citing the correct number of games the Oilers had lost in a row when you've spent an entire comment thread sounding like a smarmy know-it-all.

Your assertion Steve Smith's point -- that the Oilers have been awful -- shouldn't be lost just because he can't add is fine.

That said, your sarcastic "That will show you . . . " bit falls flat. Now, if somebody had chimed in to point out that the Oilers had only lost nine in a row after Smith said it was 10, like that mitigated the sucking, you'd have something. Pointing out it was 11 games? Not so much. Not at all, actually.

True.

I reacted because of how often I've seen you lash out after equally tangential shots are taken at you, but you're right.

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#109 DSF
April 03 2011, 07:33PM
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LT said:

"When Vande Velde turned pro last fall, I felt he'd be the first of the new pro's to emerge (based on age). However, Vande Velde's numbers (62gp, 12-4-16 -17) are not good and the number of minor leaguers recalled ahead of him (Reddox, Omark, O'Marra) suggested there was much to learn."

Then we add, "very small sample size" to his NHL FO resume (bearing in mind he was 42% in the circle last night against a team missing its best faceoff guy) and we come up with Van Gogh?

How about Mario the Housepainter?

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#110 Steve Smith
April 03 2011, 08:27PM
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Do you know what really pisses me off? When I make a joke and everybody else runs with it much better than I do.

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#111 DSF
April 03 2011, 09:09PM
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Peterborough wrote:

I like Smid and Gilby way more in the second slot. They were excellent at containing the Sedins, who in no way took a night off. You think Lander steps into a 2C role? I like the kid but that would be a miracle. Gagner at 2C Larrson with Whitney. Petry with Peckham.

The Sedins and the entire Canucks team were in cruise control after clinching the President;s Trophy.

If Lander is your second line centre, he can deal with Kesler.

Good luck with that.

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#112 Bucknuck
April 04 2011, 12:39AM
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Nice Article LT. I wish Vande Velde had bigger potential, but if he can be a fourth line centre with size that wins faceoffs and doesn't give up much I would be a happy camper.

We wouldn't be able to afford a whole team of Superstars anyways. It is good to have a decent plugger or two.

I wonder if Glencross has his name circled on Tambellini's list for this summer (provided he stays as a UFA).

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#113 Wäx Män Riley
April 04 2011, 02:33AM
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TigerUnderGlass wrote:

What is everyone's obsession with "we rushed Gagner and Cogliano?"

Nobody has any idea if they would have developed differently or not. Why don't people rant about rushing Hall?

I didn't realize that was an obsessive rant.

Maybe I should have said "I feel that a final year in junior would have been of benefit to both Gagner and Cogliano."

I just think that it is a big jump from playing against primarily 16-19 year old players to playing against 25-35 year old players.

I know it may be a challenge for both the player and the AHL affiliate, but I think it would help the player to play in the AHL before the NHL. Even Hall.

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#114 OILERSORDEATH
April 04 2011, 07:51AM
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Wäx Män Riley wrote:

I didn't realize that was an obsessive rant.

Maybe I should have said "I feel that a final year in junior would have been of benefit to both Gagner and Cogliano."

I just think that it is a big jump from playing against primarily 16-19 year old players to playing against 25-35 year old players.

I know it may be a challenge for both the player and the AHL affiliate, but I think it would help the player to play in the AHL before the NHL. Even Hall.

I think its safe to say Hall didn't need to go to the AHL.

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#115 Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach
April 04 2011, 08:05AM
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Lowetide wrote:

I read something similar, although my google translate has been known to smoke the drapes.

Say what? Doesn't he have to be signed by June 1st? Or did he just want to play out the junior season in the SEL?

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#116 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
April 04 2011, 08:27AM
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Wäx Män Riley wrote:

I didn't realize that was an obsessive rant.

Maybe I should have said "I feel that a final year in junior would have been of benefit to both Gagner and Cogliano."

I just think that it is a big jump from playing against primarily 16-19 year old players to playing against 25-35 year old players.

I know it may be a challenge for both the player and the AHL affiliate, but I think it would help the player to play in the AHL before the NHL. Even Hall.

Cogs was 20 when he stared so he was playing against 18 - 22 year olds (for the most part), I guess he probably could have used a year in the AHL, but I don't really think he was rushed.

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#117 Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach
April 04 2011, 08:32AM
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@OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F

Sending him down when he was struggling wouldn't have hurt.

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#118 madjam
April 04 2011, 08:40AM
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ARE WE HEADED IN THE WRONG DIRECTION TRYING TO REBUILD AROUND THE DRAFT ? If this year is any indicator of the future we may be headed down a path to perpetual bottom feeder . All the older veteran squads are running atop the Eastern and Western divisions , while those clubs trying more along the draft line occupy the basements of both . Are our eggs in to few baskets of the marketplace to help our club become competitive any time soon ?

Maybe we should be looking at adding more valuable veteran talent this year by way of giving up so many draftees that we keep accumulating ? I see we gave up Penner and Souray will also be gone , can we really afford to let any more go when we have little veteran talent to begn with ?

Three years ago it seemed as though the young talent was taking over the landscape of the future of the NHL , but that has taken a huge reversal for whatever reasons , and veteran presence now seems the way to build a contender ?

Maybe we should see, by sacrificing some of our youth and this years draft, what it would take to get a Malkin or Thornton , etc.? Those clubs relying heavily on the draft no longer seem to be making any ground on the more veteran squads that occupy almost exclusively the playoff spots in both divisions !

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#119 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
April 04 2011, 09:02AM
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Ogden Brother Jr. - Team Strudwick for coach wrote:

Sending him down when he was struggling wouldn't have hurt.

He didn't really struggle until year three, I think by that time it was too late to send him down without risking losing him. (160 games I believe)

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#120 Quicksilver ballet
April 04 2011, 09:15AM
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one dot.

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#121 rickithebear
April 04 2011, 09:50AM
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madjam wrote:

ARE WE HEADED IN THE WRONG DIRECTION TRYING TO REBUILD AROUND THE DRAFT ? If this year is any indicator of the future we may be headed down a path to perpetual bottom feeder . All the older veteran squads are running atop the Eastern and Western divisions , while those clubs trying more along the draft line occupy the basements of both . Are our eggs in to few baskets of the marketplace to help our club become competitive any time soon ?

Maybe we should be looking at adding more valuable veteran talent this year by way of giving up so many draftees that we keep accumulating ? I see we gave up Penner and Souray will also be gone , can we really afford to let any more go when we have little veteran talent to begn with ?

Three years ago it seemed as though the young talent was taking over the landscape of the future of the NHL , but that has taken a huge reversal for whatever reasons , and veteran presence now seems the way to build a contender ?

Maybe we should see, by sacrificing some of our youth and this years draft, what it would take to get a Malkin or Thornton , etc.? Those clubs relying heavily on the draft no longer seem to be making any ground on the more veteran squads that occupy almost exclusively the playoff spots in both divisions !

ARE WE HEADED IN THE WRONG DIRECTION TRYING TO REBUILD AROUND THE DRAFT ? ....

Madjam: We do lack veteran Presence. However, that is result of the draft.Your veteran core should be ages 25-32. Prime physical and mental development period for atheletes. This core group should have come from drafts 8(2003) to 14 (1997) years ago.

Of those drafts 16 players would be have played more than 2 years game totals. Of these 5 (horcoff, hemsky, Comrie, Stoll, Greene) could be considered top 6 FWD, top 4D, starting-Platoon Goalie. So we have 2 veterans and whitney (trade) from those drafts.

Dumping youth for veterans at ahigher cost does not cut it. we sadly have to wait for the draft to build a vetern core.

Luckily we have Stu the Magn....... to get us that core since 2007.

Picks rolling to age 25 (not with ORG): 2011: Dubnyk, (Schremp), Reddox 2012: Cogliano, Chorney, Vande Velde, Omark 2013: Petry, Peckham 2014: Gagner, (Nash) 2015: Eberle, Hartikainen 2016: Pajarvi, Lander, Rajala, Roy 2017: Hall, Pitlick, Marincin, hamilton, Martindle, Blain, Bunz. 2018: .................

It will be about 5 years from now we will have the Organization depth to start dumping replaceable veterans and prospects.

Ps. Think how Calgary's future is. They better dump Iginla and Kiper for good prospect depth so the next 10 years are not misery.

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#122 madjam
April 04 2011, 11:15AM
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Calgary remains competitive every season despite the draft and one cannot count them out just yet for this season . Their chances are slim , but like most veteran squads need little to get them back in contention for next season . Oilers on the other hand have a huge gap in player imbalance and quality between good NHL veterans and youngsters . Erixon -teammate of Larsson , looks like he'll be a good one for Flames as early as next season . Flames shouldn't have to worry about gutting their team to remain competitive in other words . The quality of our veterans is also not very high or even acceptable by last two seasons finishes .

I wouldn't be worried about the veteran squads as they have far less to worry about the draft than we do . There comes a point where we have to many youngsters and little space left for veteran balance . I am beginning to wonder if we are to oversaturated with youth already ? Veteran AHL talent is not helping an awful lot in comparison to clubs with a solid NHL caliber squad core .

We found more what doesn't work , but when are we headed toward a balance that seems to be working every where else ?

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#123 rickithebear
April 04 2011, 01:25PM
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madjam wrote:

Calgary remains competitive every season despite the draft and one cannot count them out just yet for this season . Their chances are slim , but like most veteran squads need little to get them back in contention for next season . Oilers on the other hand have a huge gap in player imbalance and quality between good NHL veterans and youngsters . Erixon -teammate of Larsson , looks like he'll be a good one for Flames as early as next season . Flames shouldn't have to worry about gutting their team to remain competitive in other words . The quality of our veterans is also not very high or even acceptable by last two seasons finishes .

I wouldn't be worried about the veteran squads as they have far less to worry about the draft than we do . There comes a point where we have to many youngsters and little space left for veteran balance . I am beginning to wonder if we are to oversaturated with youth already ? Veteran AHL talent is not helping an awful lot in comparison to clubs with a solid NHL caliber squad core .

We found more what doesn't work , but when are we headed toward a balance that seems to be working every where else ?

You do not get it. Short term give me my pleasure now guy is the folly of fools. We are were we are because we selected: 1996 Devereaux 6th Descoteaux 19th 1997 reisen 14th 1998 Heinrich 13th 1999 rita 14th 2000 mikhnov 17th 2001 hemsky 13th 2002 Ninimaki 15th 2003 pouliot 22nd

Fraser and Pendegast were brutal.

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#124 Quicksilver ballet
April 04 2011, 03:10PM
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The Pens did move one of their higher end picks, they sent 5th overall Ryan Whitney to Anaheim for Kunitz and Eric Tangradi, so they aren't completely without sin.

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#125 Wäx Män Riley
April 04 2011, 03:39PM
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Peterborough wrote:

Remember when we started this tear down and everybody said we had to rebuild the farm first and get a stock of prospects??? Well after this draft we will have the deepest propect pool and Well stocked AHL club. Thats phaze one and its almost done.

IE WORKING

We have never tried to build though the draft before, now you want to give up after one year???

Do me a favour sell me your Oilers gear and go buy some flames stuff. You sound like a flames fan already!!!

Or be patient and build a winner like Chicago did like Pittburge did like. . . or we could say $%#* it and be Columbus. . .

Thank God its not up to you!!!!

No, No, I completely, 100% disagree.....

.....He sounds like a Leafs fan

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#126 TigerUnderGlass
April 04 2011, 03:41PM
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@Peterborough

Its the lets trade picks and prospects talk thats crazy.

No it isn't.

A rational debate about the merits are fine, but when someone suggests moving the number one pick for a well established prospect or good young player people react like they suggested trading it for Ethan Moreau.

We have never tried to build though the draft before.

This is absurd. Are you suggesting the Oilers have traded away all their picks until now...or do you just mean that we haven't been so bad that we had top 5 picks before?

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#127 Wäx Män Riley
April 04 2011, 03:53PM
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TigerUnderGlass wrote:

Why do people keep saying that patience = using the draft as our one and only source of player procurement?

Why does trading a pick for a 22 year old player who is 4 years further along the development path and has proven he can play equal "giving up on the rebuild?" It doesn't.

Why does signing a veteran to a 2 year deal to show all the kids the ropes equate to abandoning the plan? It doesn't.

There are more ways to build a team than "draft and pray." Good teams figure that out.

You all want to be Chicago and Pittsburgh, well guess what...both of those teams had vets to play with their kids. Both of those teams signed players to free agent contracts. Both of those teams made trades to try and improve.

I agree that they need some capable veterans. It is hard to find those players though, through free agency especially. Those young promising players won't sign with the 2nd least desirable team in the league to player for.

Trades are arguably a better way to do it, but how has that worked for the Flames or Leafs?

There does seem to be a plan in place and it started with establishing an AHL team and stockpiling draft picks.

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#128 Wäx Män Riley
April 04 2011, 03:55PM
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dawgbone wrote:

All kids look good until they are 5 years older. Hell, Sam Gagner is already trade bait because half the fans think he's no good, and he's what, 21?

The problem with the build through the draft philosophy is that for Every Chicago there is an Atlanta. For every Pittsburgh there is a Florida.

The problem with building through the draft is that you are picking an 18 year old to play in a league dominated by 27 year olds. The best 18 year old isn't always the best player 7 or 8 years down the road.

Part of "the plan" should include adding players to make the team better in the short term. There's enough decent NHL players floating around every summer that you should be able to go from a lottery team to playoff team in a season or two.

Providing the Oilers only look at the draft option, they are going to miss out big time.

What was the last team to go from a lottery pick to a playoff berth in 2 seasons?

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#129 TigerUnderGlass
April 04 2011, 04:25PM
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Article about the youth in Columbus that might have some bearing on some of the Gagner discussion:

http://www.bluejacketsxtra.com/live/content/sports/stories/2011/04/03/its-not-too-late-for-voracek-and-brassard.html?sid=101

Link courtesy of commenter Marc on Lowetide

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#130 Wäx Män Riley
April 04 2011, 04:31PM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

Colorado - Last year.

Good point, I was seriously asking because I didn't know. It hasn't seemed to work out so well for Colorado this year though.

Tampa is pretty much doing it. I don't want to look up all the stats, but I wonder what they did differently (trades, free agents etc...), because it seems to be working for them. Drafting a player that turns into a 50-goal scorer helps I'm sure. I'd bet if Hall scores 50 next year, the Oil are close to the playoffs.

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#131 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
April 04 2011, 04:32PM
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TigerUnderGlass wrote:

Article about the youth in Columbus that might have some bearing on some of the Gagner discussion:

http://www.bluejacketsxtra.com/live/content/sports/stories/2011/04/03/its-not-too-late-for-voracek-and-brassard.html?sid=101

Link courtesy of commenter Marc on Lowetide

As a side note:

"Voracek is seen by the organization as the player with the most upward potential, but he's a restricted free agent and contract talks with agent Peter Svoboda could get sticky."

Might open up a deal centerd around Hemsky for Voracek.

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#132 Wäx Män Riley
April 04 2011, 04:32PM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

Yet over each of the last 2 summers capable vets have sat at home waiting for a contract well into the summer.

I love how you list the Flames and the Leafs. What about all the playoff teams that have made trades?

Which capable veterans do you mean?

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#133 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
April 04 2011, 04:34PM
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Wäx Män Riley wrote:

Good point, I was seriously asking because I didn't know. It hasn't seemed to work out so well for Colorado this year though.

Tampa is pretty much doing it. I don't want to look up all the stats, but I wonder what they did differently (trades, free agents etc...), because it seems to be working for them. Drafting a player that turns into a 50-goal scorer helps I'm sure. I'd bet if Hall scores 50 next year, the Oil are close to the playoffs.

I'll break the bad news to you. TB traded for and signed capable support vets.

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#134 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
April 04 2011, 04:34PM
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Wäx Män Riley wrote:

Which capable veterans do you mean?

http://www.sportscity.com/nhl/2010-nhl-unrestricted-free-agents-by-position/

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#135 Wäx Män Riley
April 04 2011, 04:55PM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

I'll break the bad news to you. TB traded for and signed capable support vets.

You aren't breaking bad news if I ask the question.

Here is a conversation to think about:

Agent - "So you're on the UFA market and people are getting signed quick. You can go to Edmonton or Florida."

Player - "Is Tampa Bay the second least desirable team to play for?"

Agent - "No"

Player - "Both are losing teams, but one has St. Louis and a 50 goal scorer and is in Florida? Hmmm..."

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#136 Wäx Män Riley
April 04 2011, 05:02PM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

http://www.sportscity.com/nhl/2010-nhl-unrestricted-free-agents-by-position/

Thanks for the link, but what players are you signing off of that list? Modano? Madden? Marleaau? Jason Williams?-His 25 games he played this year would help out.

Plekanec? for 5 mil a year?

Primeau? His 8 pts in 59 games would help this team win a cup this year.

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#137 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
April 04 2011, 05:43PM
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Wäx Män Riley wrote:

Thanks for the link, but what players are you signing off of that list? Modano? Madden? Marleaau? Jason Williams?-His 25 games he played this year would help out.

Plekanec? for 5 mil a year?

Primeau? His 8 pts in 59 games would help this team win a cup this year.

It's a long list, theirs litteraly a dozen+ guys that would have been a great fit.

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#138 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
April 04 2011, 05:44PM
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Peterborough wrote:

Tampa is an interesting example. They had two top two picks in a row improved signifgently the next season, then made it. Big difference is the support. Tampa has the core vets that we don't St. Louis and Vinny are miles ahead of Horcoff and Hemsky. We simply have more needs and have no, repeat: no realistic chance of aquiring the 1D or 1C we need other than developing them ourselves.

Draft 1C this year, put out an offer sheet to Weber or Yandle.

Fill in the blanks role players.

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#139 Wäx Män Riley
April 04 2011, 05:49PM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

It's a long list, theirs litteraly a dozen+ guys that would have been a great fit.

Again, though. See the above post with the agent talking to his player. Players do not want to come to a rebuild. No player says:

"Hey, you know, I want to go to an inexperienced team that is in a rebuild and is going to lose for the 2 years that I sign. The poor performance of the team could possibly hurt my chances at another good contract since my stats will suffer."

These are real people that we are talking about with real egos and real feelings of entitlement.

This isn't NHL '09

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#140 Wäx Män Riley
April 04 2011, 05:51PM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

Draft 1C this year, put out an offer sheet to Weber or Yandle.

Fill in the blanks role players.

Fill in the blanks role players is what they did this year and the last 30 posts have been bashing them.

I'm still torn as to whether this is the year for an RFA offer sheet. I'd give it one more year because those are a lot of picks to give up. It could be 4 first round picks. Sounds pretty expensive.

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#141 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
April 04 2011, 06:01PM
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Wäx Män Riley wrote:

Again, though. See the above post with the agent talking to his player. Players do not want to come to a rebuild. No player says:

"Hey, you know, I want to go to an inexperienced team that is in a rebuild and is going to lose for the 2 years that I sign. The poor performance of the team could possibly hurt my chances at another good contract since my stats will suffer."

These are real people that we are talking about with real egos and real feelings of entitlement.

This isn't NHL '09

Flat out lie.

The NYI have made some nice signings the last few years.

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#142 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
April 04 2011, 06:02PM
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Wäx Män Riley wrote:

Fill in the blanks role players is what they did this year and the last 30 posts have been bashing them.

I'm still torn as to whether this is the year for an RFA offer sheet. I'd give it one more year because those are a lot of picks to give up. It could be 4 first round picks. Sounds pretty expensive.

Theirs a big difference between bringing in another teams 5th line center, and real live proven bottom 6'ers.

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#143 Wäx Män Riley
April 04 2011, 06:25PM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

Flat out lie.

The NYI have made some nice signings the last few years.

Speculation maybe, but no lie.

A lie would be claiming that The Oilers' management have no idea what they are doing and that they are running the organization to the ground on purpose.

Do you actually think that is what is happening? That they hate Katz and this city so much that they want to waste his money and embarrass Edmonton?

Even me, in my limited hockey knowledge, would place a call to every agent on July 1st. Claiming that Tambo and Lowe looked at who is available and decided to go to the bottom of the list is rediculous

Sometimes I just feel like this in here

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#144 Steve Smith
April 04 2011, 06:27PM
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@Wäx Män Riley

I think only the most conspiracy-minded think that Oilers management is running the team into the ground deliberately. The rest of us adhere to the old "cock-up over conspiracy" view.

(Actually, most of the people who think they're doing it deliberately are the ones who assure us that it's all part of the plan.)

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#145 Wäx Män Riley
April 04 2011, 06:32PM
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TigerUnderGlass wrote:

Losing to pick high is not a plan, it's failure. Chicago missed the playoff 9 of the 10 years before they drafted Kane. It took 10 years for enough draft picks to pan out to contend. Do you believe thus was their plan?

Pittsburgh needed to win the Crosby lottery to turn it around.

"Hey, you know, I want to go to an inexperienced team that is in a rebuild and is going to lose for the 2 years that I sign. The poor performance of the team could possibly hurt my chances at another good contract since my stats will suffer."

or

"Hey, you know my role and playing time were partially limited on that really deep team I played for last season. Maybe a rebuilding team will give me a good chance to get more ice time in a more prominent role so I can demonstrate my value, increase my numbers, and get myself a better contract."

Hmmmm... you mean like Fraser or Foster?

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#146 Steve Smith
April 04 2011, 06:34PM
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@Wäx Män Riley

Foster's actually a good example (Fraser isn't, because he was acquired by trade). Now the Oilers just need to apply the same philosophy to players who i. fill a team need, and ii. don't suck.

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#147 Wäx Män Riley
April 04 2011, 06:36PM
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Steve Smith wrote:

I think only the most conspiracy-minded think that Oilers management is running the team into the ground deliberately. The rest of us adhere to the old "cock-up over conspiracy" view.

(Actually, most of the people who think they're doing it deliberately are the ones who assure us that it's all part of the plan.)

Cock-up? Fan of Scottish poetry are you ol' Johnny Lad?

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#148 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
April 04 2011, 06:39PM
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Wäx Män Riley wrote:

Hmmmm... you mean like Fraser or Foster?

Yes! Players like that!

Only those two were clossal failures, which means the guy whos job it was to identify and bring them in also failed.

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#149 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
April 04 2011, 06:41PM
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Wäx Män Riley wrote:

Speculation maybe, but no lie.

A lie would be claiming that The Oilers' management have no idea what they are doing and that they are running the organization to the ground on purpose.

Do you actually think that is what is happening? That they hate Katz and this city so much that they want to waste his money and embarrass Edmonton?

Even me, in my limited hockey knowledge, would place a call to every agent on July 1st. Claiming that Tambo and Lowe looked at who is available and decided to go to the bottom of the list is rediculous

Sometimes I just feel like this in here

Lie probably wasn't the best word, grasping at straws probably fits better.

You said:

"Players do not want to come to a rebuild"

History tells us that isn't correct.

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#150 Steve Smith
April 04 2011, 06:46PM
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@Wäx Män Riley

"Cock-up" gets 4.96 million Google hits. It's a perfectly modern (and cromulent) phrase. But anyway, I was just quoting Bernie Ingham (who is, it's worth noting, also not an old Scot).

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