Last Place Teams, Five Years Later: Group Performance

Jonathan Willis
June 01 2011 10:34PM

I hope that most have enjoyed our series tracking last place teams between 1995-96 and 2005-06, and their performance five years out. As we’ve seen, performance has varied from team-to-team – from squads that went on to win the Stanley Cup, to teams that put in a competent performance, to the perpetual losers.

How did they fare, as a group? If we wanted an average base-line to give us an idea of what the Oilers might do if they follow the group’s curve, what would that look like? After the jump, the conclusion to this series.

Naturally, since we’re tracking aggregate performance, I’ve included a series of graphs, which tell the bulk of the story. The only alteration I’ve made to the numbers is to project all finishes over a 30-team league (the NHL only expanded to 30 teams in 2000-01, so some of these finishes came in a 26, 27 or 28-team league – adjusting the standings to a 30-team league makes the results more realistic for today).

What percentage of teams made the playoffs?

What percentage of teams finished in the top-10 during the regular season?

What was the average finish of the teams in question?

Conclusion

I have to admit that when I put these trends together, I was more than a little surprised. The third chart is particularly frightening – five years after hitting rock bottom, the average finish for these clubs is right on the playoff bubble. At first glance, that might seem to conflict with the top graph (which shows a 70% playoff attainment rate) but the explanation is simple: five years out, there are a lot of teams on the playoff bubble, a few teams at the very bottom of the league, and no teams near the top (Pittsburgh, the best performer of these 10 clubs in their fifth season, finished eighth in the league). That skews the overall average down to the playoff bubble.

The sad thing is that very few teams on this list ever managed to parley their top draft picks into lasting success – only two of the 10 teams (Pittsburgh and Ottawa) enjoyed a lengthy period of success as a result of their rebuilding, while the majority of teams were either one-and-done or never spent any time in the league’s upper echelon.

It’s a sobering set of facts, and one that points to the importance of augmenting top picks with managerial excellence. We know the Oilers both have and will have the former, but opinions vary on the latter.

74b7cedc5d8bfbe88cf071309e98d2c3
Jonathan Willis is a freelance writer. He currently works for Oilers Nation, Sportsnet, the Edmonton Journal and Bleacher Report. He's co-written three books and worked for myriad websites, including Grantland, ESPN, The Score, and Hockey Prospectus. He was previously the founder and managing editor of Copper & Blue.
Avatar
#1 Sparky
June 01 2011, 10:37PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
2
cheers

Great series JW!

Avatar
#2 robinrussia
June 01 2011, 10:54PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

I wonder if all these other teams underwent an actual rebuild (as acknowledged by Tambi and Lowe) or just pee poor management.

I mean was it ever acknowledged that NYI were in rebuild mode at that time? Milbury would likely have said no?

Avatar
#4 Derek Z
June 01 2011, 11:11PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
3
cheers

But I thought "...and then BAM! Stanley Cup!" ?

Avatar
#5 Bruce
June 01 2011, 11:17PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Nice concept, JW. Sobering indeed.

Avatar
#6 speeds
June 01 2011, 11:20PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers

One (potential) difference for the Oilers, compared to some of the other teams mentioned, is that they'll likely have more money to work with.

Some of the teams that finished dead last probably didn't have had the opportunity to spend to the cap once they started to turn things around, to help augment the roster.

Avatar
#7 Butters
June 01 2011, 11:27PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Jonathan Willis wrote:

I don't think there's a rebuild in NHL history that hasn't been sparked by poor management.

Which is why I'm still more than a little confused that the two architects of the accidental - and it was accidental - 2009-10 collapse are the guys charged with righting the ship.

JW, I think the Oilers are atypical in this regard. Kevin Lowe wasn't fired, so Tambellini couldn't blame the dead guy for the mess. He likely would have had difficulty ripping apart the organization on day one of the job. He had to allow Lowe's methods to fail before the restructuring could begin in earnest.

Avatar
#8 Max Powers - Team HME Evans
June 01 2011, 11:27PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Is it just me or did JW leave out chicago as an example? Seems to me like they are a pretty good example of a rebuild.

Avatar
#9 T.C.
June 01 2011, 11:31PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

great series!to bad the news isn't better.hopefully the oil is the exception and we rock it for a lotta years to come.

Avatar
#10 Bicepus Maximus - Huge fan boy!
June 01 2011, 11:33PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
2
cheers

No question that inept management gets you the top picks. It's what they do after that's important.

If the Oilers have committed to amateur scouting, and keeping and developing draft picks, they have committed to a recipe for success. And they don't need to keep tanking to continue with that commitment.

We don't know enough about the teams you discussed, that have had success, to see what kind of cultural change they went through, if at all.

Fixing problems as they arise is not the solution. Diagnosing how and why the problems arise in the first place and then reaching resolutions that way is the true solution. Sounds like the Oilers figured that out in the last few years, partly through inability to sign big name free agents.

I'm afraid you're not looking at it the right way, JW.

Avatar
#11 D
June 01 2011, 11:39PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers

This analysis gives cause for concern. I am not convinced that Lord Stanley will pay Edmonton a year-long visit with Tambo at the helm.

Avatar
#12 edmontoncritic - BRoadwAY
June 01 2011, 11:42PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

This was awesome the first 2 graphs!! Then the final and im sad

So I set out to take a different angle, awhile back I did a comparison of teams with Top 2 picks in a short period, because we know that one player cant win you a cup (see: Iginla, Ovechkin). In the top 2 you generally have PURE STUDS. If you were to check what teams had multiple top 2 picks its OTT, Pitt and Chi and now EDM. While the NYI, CLB, ATL and WSH all only had a single top 2 and other fill ins. Not saying it can't be done but I bet the graph changes alot if it were 2 bottom 3 finishes, 5 years outto be more accurate of the Oilers situation

Great article though, gives a good picture

Avatar
#13 knobby
June 01 2011, 11:44PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

All you have to do Jon is draw a set of antlers on Tambellini for that total 'deer in the headlights look' in the pic above.

Management at all levels is the Oilers biggest deficiency. Canuck GM Gillis inherited a better core but he has made consistently good moves and signings. As a former player and agent it appears he has developed the ability to get along with players and other player agents. Unfortunately the Oil managment has never demonstrated any such skill in team/organization building to date. Kevin Lowe's history of fighting with players/agents in public has brought down his reputation as a manager and made it even harder to get players to come to Edmonton and stay. Maybe he should check his ego at the door in aid of getting the job done that needs to be done.

Tambellini lost the battle and the war with the handling of the Souray matter. It was a ham-handed blunder that was basically an exercise in cutting off your nose to spite your face.

Tambellini and Lowe seem to only excel at pissing off players and agents. Maybe Lowe's stunning move with Comrie ( demanding money from his contract and then lost Corey Perry in the process) was a classic move. A truly cunning stunt.

Avatar
#14 Butters - Team Nail Yakupov
June 01 2011, 11:46PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

The Oilers are investing heavily in player development and scouting. Their AHL team went from last in the AHL to making the playoffs in one year. They are on the right track.

One more year of this...

Avatar
#15 MrMackey
June 01 2011, 11:48PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

I don't see how much of this is relevant when you take the salary cap in to consideration.

Avatar
#16 Quicksilver ballet
June 01 2011, 11:52PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

One more reason to sell our souls to get a second shot in that top 6 this summer. If there's an elite player to be had in this summers draft why not increase our chances by grabbing 2 of the top 6 rated kids.

Paajarvi, the 19th and the 31st to Florida for Erik Gudbranson and the third selection this summer. Could Gudbranson be the next Shea Weber?

This 5 yrs till even being a playoff bubble team is a sobering reality indeed. The Oilers have an opportunity to be more aggressive this summer and get something like this done to prevent this from becoming a reality.

Avatar
#17 Dave Lumley
June 02 2011, 12:10AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
2
cheers
Quicksilver ballet wrote:

One more reason to sell our souls to get a second shot in that top 6 this summer. If there's an elite player to be had in this summers draft why not increase our chances by grabbing 2 of the top 6 rated kids.

Paajarvi, the 19th and the 31st to Florida for Erik Gudbranson and the third selection this summer. Could Gudbranson be the next Shea Weber?

This 5 yrs till even being a playoff bubble team is a sobering reality indeed. The Oilers have an opportunity to be more aggressive this summer and get something like this done to prevent this from becoming a reality.

Could Paajarvi become the next Forsberg? Or Zetterberg?

Avatar
#18 Dave Lumley
June 02 2011, 12:19AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

@knobby

Yea, many of Lowes moves are not defensible. Just wondering how many of them were EIG?

I hope that is a big part of the culture ST promised to change.

P.S. Skip the personal attacks next time re: "drawing antlers..." or post pics of yourself we can mock.

Avatar
#19 Quicksilver ballet
June 02 2011, 12:21AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Dave Lumley wrote:

Could Paajarvi become the next Forsberg? Or Zetterberg?

I'll gamble and take my chances on that. Both Zetterberg and Forsberg were point a game players since day one. There was no adjustment year needed for those two guys, they both brought it since their arrival in the NHL.

Couturier and Gubranson looks like a pretty good return on that package to me. Is this decent deal for Dale Tallon you figure?

Avatar
#20 David S
June 02 2011, 12:29AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Or we could jettison the half dozen guys who helped us tank our way to the #1 pick, replace them with (probably slightly overpaid) quality vets and keep the less-than-ready kids in our AHL team until they're ready to compete (versus inherit) for a spot on the big team's roster. Then we demote Khabby to OKC and hook up Dubnyk with a half decent playing partner because there's always goalies available during the summer.

We set a goal of making the playoffs next season to savvy up our kids, then...

*slaps self*...

What was I thinking? Only six or so years of "the process" and we're a lock for the cup. A much more realistic approach!

Avatar
#21 Dave Lumley
June 02 2011, 12:34AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

@Quicksilver ballet

But Zetterberg played 5 years or so in Sweden before coming over.

From a pick perspective trade a #10 for two #3, but I might pick Landeskog instead.

Avatar
#22 NamelessNed
June 02 2011, 06:16AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Quicksilver ballet wrote:

I'll gamble and take my chances on that. Both Zetterberg and Forsberg were point a game players since day one. There was no adjustment year needed for those two guys, they both brought it since their arrival in the NHL.

Couturier and Gubranson looks like a pretty good return on that package to me. Is this decent deal for Dale Tallon you figure?

Confused... Zetterberg's first season in the NHL 79 GP 44 pts; second year 61GP 43 pts; then the following year a stint in SEL...

However Forsberg was a point getter from day one

Avatar
#23 The Real Scuba Steve
June 02 2011, 07:07AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

There needs to be a cultural change at the top of the organization.

Avatar
#24 The Real Scuba Steve
June 02 2011, 07:10AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Dave Lumley wrote:

Yea, many of Lowes moves are not defensible. Just wondering how many of them were EIG?

I hope that is a big part of the culture ST promised to change.

P.S. Skip the personal attacks next time re: "drawing antlers..." or post pics of yourself we can mock.

Your on the wrong site man.

Avatar
#25 Joshua Kingsmill
June 02 2011, 07:11AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Nice stuff: I am sure I am not the only one who suggested this type of analysis, but great to see it happen. A good analogy for this is the stock market While it is true that stock laggards, after years of underperformance can provide a good return over for a short time, only to fall back; Blue Chip, dividend yielding stocks outperform over long term because of commitment to excellence and consistency. Hopefully there will be the money and long term vision, or the OIL will continue to stay lousy. "Good stocks are expensive because the are quality" I think the last chart summarizes that in a hockey analogy: "Bad teams stay sucky becasue they aren't good". Basically our team has Hall, who has the potential to be an all-star (not ovie, crosby, etc though), Eberle who is a 2nd or 3rd liner on a really good team, and a bunch of guys who have injury histories or starting out with maybe 2nd line ceilings if max performance, or not impact players. Signed, NOT A HAPPY OIL FAN

Avatar
#26 John Chambers
June 02 2011, 07:47AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Max Powers - Team HME Evans wrote:

Is it just me or did JW leave out chicago as an example? Seems to me like they are a pretty good example of a rebuild.

Indeed. Adding Washington and Chicago into the mix would've changed the look of the graphs.

That said, Chicago never finished last. Only 3rd last twice and 5th last once.

Avatar
#27 Archaeologuy
June 02 2011, 07:52AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

@Quicksilver ballet

Gudbranson could be the next Weber, if Weber missed a lot of games regularly and stopped producing offensively.

Avatar
#28 madjam
June 02 2011, 08:02AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Calgary deals Erixson(Larsson's playing partner ) to Rangers for a fringe player and 2 second round picks this draft . Crap , we could have easily bested that deal and got him , and then used our first pick to pick Larsson . Man , that would have gone a long way to shoring up our backend woes !! Did Tams and company just blow another huge opportunity to get our club moving forward so easily ? Shocker that Flames let Erixson get away to be honest .

I would assume Oilers are not interested in Larsson either , if they blew this opportunity to get Erixson .

Avatar
#29 Milli
June 02 2011, 08:08AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Man Willis, that is depressing first thing in the morn!

Avatar
#30 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
June 02 2011, 08:19AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Quicksilver ballet wrote:

I'll gamble and take my chances on that. Both Zetterberg and Forsberg were point a game players since day one. There was no adjustment year needed for those two guys, they both brought it since their arrival in the NHL.

Couturier and Gubranson looks like a pretty good return on that package to me. Is this decent deal for Dale Tallon you figure?

Tsk tsk

Zetterberg didn't hit a PPG+ until year 3.... at 25 years old.

Avatar
#31 Archaeologuy
June 02 2011, 08:23AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
madjam wrote:

Calgary deals Erixson(Larsson's playing partner ) to Rangers for a fringe player and 2 second round picks this draft . Crap , we could have easily bested that deal and got him , and then used our first pick to pick Larsson . Man , that would have gone a long way to shoring up our backend woes !! Did Tams and company just blow another huge opportunity to get our club moving forward so easily ? Shocker that Flames let Erixson get away to be honest .

I would assume Oilers are not interested in Larsson either , if they blew this opportunity to get Erixson .

~Because the Flames really wanted to see one of their top prospects play for the Oilers~

There was no "Let him get away", he told them he wasnt going to be a Flame. I wouldnt be surprised if the Flames werent willing to offer enough in bonuses because of their Cap restrictions. They have about 3.5 million in space and still need to fill 5 or 6 spots. An incentive filled ELC can soak up a lot of that space.

Avatar
#32 VMR
June 02 2011, 08:33AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

It's an interesting series and it at least partially vindicates Kevin Lowe's stance that they're on a 4-6 year rebuilding plan. Your stats show that it'll probably take that long to be a playoff bubble team.

What really interests me is the longer term stuff. You get teams like the Islanders or Florida or Atlanta who get stuck in a rut and can never pull themselves up to respectability. How does that happen? I know I heard Keith Tkachuk hinting on 1260 yesterday that ownership in Atlanta was a pain to deal with, many other bad teams have had the same problem (Harold Ballard). Then there's management, the Doug Maclean's and Mike Milbury's of the world have definitely set their teams back years.

Or conversely the teams that stay contenders for long periods like Detroit. I was trying to think of other examples but most of them have started to fade like Jersey and Dallas, Philadelphia is pretty constant but they had a dry run in the early 90's until they sold the farm for Lindros. Boston, always in the game but rarely a contender the Rangers are usually like that.

Avatar
#33 Quicksilver ballet
June 02 2011, 08:59AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

Tsk tsk

Zetterberg didn't hit a PPG+ until year 3.... at 25 years old.

Appologies Obbie, i must've overlooked my medication again last night.

Any of this aggressively persuing a second top 5 make sense to you?

Avatar
#34 LoDog
June 02 2011, 09:06AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Archaeologuy wrote:

~Because the Flames really wanted to see one of their top prospects play for the Oilers~

There was no "Let him get away", he told them he wasnt going to be a Flame. I wouldnt be surprised if the Flames werent willing to offer enough in bonuses because of their Cap restrictions. They have about 3.5 million in space and still need to fill 5 or 6 spots. An incentive filled ELC can soak up a lot of that space.

Not to mention that if he wasn't going to sign in Calgary he sure as hell wouldn't sign here.

Avatar
#35 Archaeologuy
June 02 2011, 09:08AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
LoDog wrote:

Not to mention that if he wasn't going to sign in Calgary he sure as hell wouldn't sign here.

True Story

Avatar
#36 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
June 02 2011, 09:09AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Quicksilver ballet wrote:

Appologies Obbie, i must've overlooked my medication again last night.

Any of this aggressively persuing a second top 5 make sense to you?

Sure, it all depends on what we are giving up and where exactly the pick falls.

History tells me picks 4+ don't typically produce elite NHL'ers, so I'd still gladly trade into those spots, but I wouldn't give up a bunch.

If we could get pick 2 or 3 then I'd be willing to "over-pay" for solid odds at grabing an elite player.

Avatar
#37 DieHard
June 02 2011, 10:36AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Archaeologuy wrote:

True Story

Erixson had like 3 valid reasons not to join Calgary's Org. Those reasons don't exist with Edmonton and if he had'nt had big ties and desires to the Rangers I could see him signing with us. BUT, Calgary would not have dealt with us.

Avatar
#38 Ryan2
June 02 2011, 10:49AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
2
cheers

Interesting stuff, Jonathan, but what are the numbers like in years 5 through 10 when the early high/top picks should conceivably be finally hitting their peak performing years? At that point most of these teams would have had the core pieces in place via the draft and then made trades using their assets (young non-core players and draft picks) or signed UFAs to put the missing pieces in place.

In most cases it takes longer than that 5 years to build a winner as players take time to develop. Even the Pens had some decent depth talent in the system before landing a transcendent one in Crosby that put them over the top. Their rebuild really started in 2002 with the first top 5 pick (Ryan Whitney), then four straight top 2 picks (two #1s - Crosby in 2005 - and two #1s) in the 2003 - 2006 drafts, but they did not win the Cup until the 2008/2009 season (2009), basically 7 years after the rebuild started.

You can look at the Avs, Red Wings, early 80s Islanders, the Mario Pens, and even the Hawks the same way. As Oilers fans we were spoiled in the 80s with the NHL results, but if you count the bitter end of the WHA as the starting point it still took 5 years or so to build a top team here even with the WHA roster advantage (i.e. they actually had talent coming into the NHL unlike an expansion franchise).

I think that the other key point is that the successful bottom feeders that turned things around kept a lot of the talent together over the longer term as well. The two poster franchises for failed rebuilds are the Islanders and Panthers - how many of their top draft picks stay with the team into their prime? They had their duds like everyone else, but neither team has developed enough of a winning culture where players want to stick around. This is a key issue that Lowe/Tambi will need to address in the medium term as well to avoid the same fate.

What does that mean for us fans? It is going to take time for the rebuild to pay off. The key is for the team to assemble talent now and develop it to form a core group of players that a winner can be built around. In 3 or so years when the results are better understood, the new GM (Tambi will likely be gone by then) can trade "prospects" and picks or sign UFAs for finishing pieces. If enough of them pan out then the Oilers will be a force for a number of years. If not, then we will be back at the rebuild stage sooner than later.

Avatar
#39 freeze
June 02 2011, 12:04PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers

FTNF!!

So the conclusion is that you need to pull in decent veterans that can actually play?

Avatar
#40 Mantastic
June 02 2011, 12:21PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

@knobby

Gillis traded for alberts last season, traded for ballard last off-season, traded off grabner and a first rounder, signed luongo to that 10m a season contract, signed manny and hammer which wasn't hard to do when you're a contending team and a team in vancouver. manny wanted to play for a contending team, hammer wanted to play for his home province. alberts and ballard were both flops, really and seriously would you sign a goalie for 10 seasons?

i would hardly give Gillis a thumbs up.

Avatar
#41 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
June 02 2011, 12:32PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Mantastic wrote:

Gillis traded for alberts last season, traded for ballard last off-season, traded off grabner and a first rounder, signed luongo to that 10m a season contract, signed manny and hammer which wasn't hard to do when you're a contending team and a team in vancouver. manny wanted to play for a contending team, hammer wanted to play for his home province. alberts and ballard were both flops, really and seriously would you sign a goalie for 10 seasons?

i would hardly give Gillis a thumbs up.

A Tambillini supporter failing to give what looks like the Stanley cup winning GM the thumbs up?

Avatar
#42 Mantastic
June 02 2011, 12:43PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

@OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F

how am i a tambillini supporter?

would you give any of those moves a thumbs up? gillis didn't trade for luongo, draft the sedins or kesler. he also signed mats sundin to a 10 mill a year contract, is that good too?

Avatar
#43 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
June 02 2011, 01:03PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Mantastic wrote:

how am i a tambillini supporter?

would you give any of those moves a thumbs up? gillis didn't trade for luongo, draft the sedins or kesler. he also signed mats sundin to a 10 mill a year contract, is that good too?

Alberts has played well.

I'd give his work as a whole 2 thumbs up.

I'd also encourage you to see what Luongo actually makes per years (more importantly his cap hit)

Avatar
#44 Mantastic
June 02 2011, 02:11PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

@OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F

lol alberts was a GOAT last year, he's been OK this year. last year he couldn't even make the hurricane's roster and they were god awful. he traded a 3rd rounder thinking it would fill the void that willie left, LOL

i would also like you to know luongo this season is the highest paid player. yes i know his cap hit is 5 a season but would you have signed a goalie for TEN seasons? lol

i also like the fact that you only mentioned those 2 things out of the list i gave as supporting gillis

Avatar
#45 Chris.
June 02 2011, 03:49PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Does the 5 year countdown to bubble team status start after last years 30th place finish or from the year before?

(I just want to know if this is going to be a 9 year playoff drought or a 10)... ~Yay Oiler management!~

Avatar
#46 DSF
June 02 2011, 04:07PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Chris. wrote:

Does the 5 year countdown to bubble team status start after last years 30th place finish or from the year before?

(I just want to know if this is going to be a 9 year playoff drought or a 10)... ~Yay Oiler management!~

It starts after the final 30th place finish which is likely next season.

So, focus your fuzzy, warm thoughts on 2017.

Avatar
#47 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
June 02 2011, 04:43PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Mantastic wrote:

lol alberts was a GOAT last year, he's been OK this year. last year he couldn't even make the hurricane's roster and they were god awful. he traded a 3rd rounder thinking it would fill the void that willie left, LOL

i would also like you to know luongo this season is the highest paid player. yes i know his cap hit is 5 a season but would you have signed a goalie for TEN seasons? lol

i also like the fact that you only mentioned those 2 things out of the list i gave as supporting gillis

lol yes I would sign an elite goaltender for 10 seasons at 5.3 hit.... especially when it's structured the way it is for easy buouts after 7 years. lol

lol I could care less that he's the highest paid player, he's elite and Vancouver has piles of $$$... his salary is essentially irrelavant. lol

lol I mentioned to because they were both fine transactions, sure the Ballard trade has been poor so far, but who cares. lol

lol They are an elite team and he's done a heck of a job getting them there. lol

Avatar
#48 Mantastic
June 02 2011, 04:55PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

@OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F

7 years... are you listening to yourself? luongo has proven nothing until this season. and regular season means jack sh*t. last year when he sh*t the bed against chicago, would you have said the same thing?

yeah, piles of money that they are over the cap and taking a cap penalty for 2 straight years. and it means that they can't resign both beiska and ehrhoff

if you said tambilini did the same transactions you would be the one running the mob to burn him alive at rx1.

the canucks are an elite team in no part of what he has done. again i mention, sedins, kesler, luongo have not been because of him, and those are the players which really make that team elite.

Avatar
#49 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
June 02 2011, 05:08PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Mantastic wrote:

7 years... are you listening to yourself? luongo has proven nothing until this season. and regular season means jack sh*t. last year when he sh*t the bed against chicago, would you have said the same thing?

yeah, piles of money that they are over the cap and taking a cap penalty for 2 straight years. and it means that they can't resign both beiska and ehrhoff

if you said tambilini did the same transactions you would be the one running the mob to burn him alive at rx1.

the canucks are an elite team in no part of what he has done. again i mention, sedins, kesler, luongo have not been because of him, and those are the players which really make that team elite.

Yes Mantastic, 7 years. What is your issue with that?

Yes I would have said the same thing last year, he's been an elite goaltender for years.

I'm also guessing you don't know this but Luongo carried a massive underdog to the SCF a few years ago. Even that aside you're making some ridiculous claims. Are Ryan Miller or Henrick Lunquivist elite goalies? Because they haven't done much in the PO either.

You think Gillis has nothing to do with Sedins+Kesler+Luongo? Do you realize he's got all four locked up for 22 million cap hit?

I'll let that sink in for a minute, 22 million for four ELITE players, that my friend is excellent managment.

Oh and no I wouldn't be running to burn RX1 if Tambillini did that I'd be estatic that he's got a 30 year old elite goaltender for 7 years at 1.5 million more per then the 36 year old goalie who happens to be one of the worst in the league that Tambs originally signed.

Avatar
#50 Mantastic
June 02 2011, 05:42PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

@OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F

if you think 7 years is ok to lock up a goalie.. ok then, if that's what you think is good GMing, and lol'ing at thinking luongo carried the panthers to the finals

how hard is it to resign players with a pay increase before they hit their career highs? the hardest part for GM's is actually getting the elite talent to begin with, not resigning organizational players with pay increases.

you would be estatic for trading a first rounder, a calder candidate for ballard, third rounder for alberts, 10m for sundin?

gillis and tambs both inherited their teams, one inherited a team with elite players, the other NONE.

Comments are closed for this article.