MacT Godsend?

Lowetide
June 09 2011 10:10PM

Rumors tonight have Craig MacTavish in the final group under consideration for the Ottawa Senators coaching job. Should MacT win the day, could that impact the 2011 draft board and inspire a trade or two between Ottawa and Edmonton?  

Craig MacTavish has been loyal to most of his players since leaving the Oiler organization, to the point of a painful television moment this past winter where he defended Shawn Horcoff as a capable option in many circumstances. I've long felt that Craig MacTavish was an excellent coach who stayed too long at the fair in Edmonton and lost the veterans on the club. Much of that likely came from his very public rips of Dustin Penner, which continue unabated by others on the left coast. 

MacT left some fine players in Edmonton, men he'd come to count on. Many of his foot soldiers have been sent down the line (Moreau, Staios, etc), but there are a few still living in Edmonton. 

Remember 2006?

Among the 2006 Oilers, center Shawn Horcoff (always a MacT favorite) and winger Ales Hemsky remain. Both would be helpful additions to the Ottawa Senators, but that team is also in building mode so would be unlikely to add either player.

MacT's Rookies

From fall 2000 through the day MacT stepped down as coach, a lot of kids graduated to the show under his watch. Some, like Daniel Cleary and Raffi Torres, came from other organizations. Others were Oilers draft picks and through his years on the job MacTavish displayed an admirable quality: pedigree didn't count for much.

MacT's list of rookies is a long one and they displayed a wide variety of skills. He played Sam Gagner the most among rookie forwards, Steve MacIntyre the least. The 07-08 group was probably the best (Gagner, Cogliano, Brodziak, Gilbert, etc) and 05-06 didn't have much to offer as the veteran team tracked destiny.

Here are 5 current Oilers I can see coach MacT asking his GM to acquire:

  1. Tom Gilbert: Still an effective defenseman but may have outstayed his welcome in Edmonton. The Senators could use an effective finesse defender and Gilbert could be available.
  2. Andrew Cogliano: The double whammy here, as GM Murray tried to grab Cogs in the Dany Heatley deal. Cogliano no doubt pleased coach Renney so it might be a no-go from Edmonton, but one imagines he'll ask.
  3. Ladislav Smid: As with Cogliano, Murray attempted to acquire Smid in the Heatley trade a couple of whiskey sour's ago. Ottawa is building a tight blue line, perhaps Smid would be an effective role player.
  4. Zack Stortini: Stortini played his best NHL hockey under MacT and could be a solid 13-14F for the veteran coach. Added value: with Stortini on the roster, there's one guy who'll always have your back.
  5. JF Jacques: Laugh at your peril. MacT gave him a job and then give him chance after chance to establish himself in the National Hockey League.

What's coming back? 

Ottawa has a few things that Edmonton would find attractive. Along with draft picks (Sens want to trade up btw), Edmonton might like the looks of men like Chris Neil, prospect Jared Cowen, Bobby Butler and Colin Greening.

I don't think much will come of this, maybe a Stortini trade for a depth pick. Still, should MacT get the job it makes sense that the Senators might come knocking and ask after some of his former players.

C2a6955161684b5e3189319acfa5ebe4
Lowetide has been one of the Oilogosphere's shining lights for over a century. You can check him out here at OilersNation and at lowetide.ca. He is also the host of Lowdown with Lowetide weekday mornings 10-noon on Team 1260.
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#1 @Oilanderp
June 10 2011, 11:25AM
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@David S

When the Trollie Trollertons combine forces with the Anti-Horculeans, they still only make a weak at best gathering of rabble-rousers. Archers! Let fly! *ducks behind the castle wall*

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#2 CanaDave
June 10 2011, 11:15AM
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If the Bruins had Horcoff they wouldn't have traded for Kelly a the deadline this season, and if the Canucks had Horcoff then they probably wouldn't have offered Malhotra a contract in the last offseason. I'm constantly amazed when people around here can't seem to get past the contract Horcoff signed and use that as their major argument to criticize him.

Horcoff signed that contract 2 weeks after Katz officially became owner of the team, and Katz was incredibly smart to sign him to it. It sent a message to the community that he wasn't going to let Oilers all-stars, which Horcoff was in 2008, walk away because another team was going to pay them more. It signaled to me at least that the Oilers finally had an owner that wasn't going to be content with having a team that scraped and clawed and looked at finishing 8th as a massive achievement and something to be proud of, because it's not.

I'm sure that when this extension was signed it was imagined that when it was all said and done Gagner would be an emerging if not full emerged elite #1 C who would be worthy of making 7mil+ per season based on his incredibly strong 07-08 rookie season. Now that 3 years have passed and the Oilers have a future superstar on their team (Hall) who is going to be worth more than that in the NHL market by 14-15 it's a moot point.

Signing Horcoff to that contract also sent and should continue to send a message to every Oilers player not drafted in the top 10 or even in the 1st round, that if they bust their ass and work hard at their game like Horcoff has their entire career they will be rewarded for it and treated like a superstar regardless of whether they are drafted 1st overall or 99th. Horcoff can fairly identify with and relate to every forward in the organization right now since he had to earn everything he's gotten in the NHL. He can talk to a young player drafted in the mid-rounds from his experience there and tell them how to view a demotion to the AHL as a chance to grow and improve amongst other things, and he can also tell and advise the younger generation of players what it's like to play at an all-star level against the best competition every other team in the NHL can throw at you night in and night out.

Wanting to get rid of an asset like Horcoff for anything at this point is near insanity to me, because without him it's even more unfair to Gagner, Cogliano, and if they draft him RNH to ask and expect of them to learn to become winners and champions in this league without any real guidance or any veteran presence to act as both a leader to them on and off the ice.

Now as far as the actual topic of this post goes, if the Oilers could get any draft pick for Stortini's or Jacques rights then I'd suggest taking it, since I don't think that they fit into Coach Renney's vision of the team he wants assembled. If you can't get any value for them, then hopefully they work their butts off over the summer and make the team outright in the fall, or else they are 2 pretty decent AHL players to have on the farm team.

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#3 Ender
June 10 2011, 10:05AM
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I love reading high fantasy.

There are more trolls in this thread than a Tolkien novel.

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#4 Ender
June 10 2011, 10:50AM
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@Quicksilver ballet

If you know something, and everyone else is wrong about it . . . maybe it's time to start exploring the idea that everyone else isn't where the problem lies.

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#5 David S
June 10 2011, 11:20AM
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Archaeologuy wrote:

He's Captain, he's been here his whole career, he can see that this team is going to get better. Why go to an unfamiliar place that isnt a winner?

I dont have a problem with your assessment of Horc, but moving him out right now is Pie in the Sky. That's all.

The window to move him is non-existant.

He also has a home, wife and kids in school here. I very much doubt he'd go anywhere at this point in time.

Besides, the point is moot. Shawn Horcoff will neither be traded, demoted to the AHL or bought out. That is a fact.

Like Ender said, there's sure alot of Trollie Trollertons here today.

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#6 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
June 10 2011, 10:08AM
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Brad wrote:

So anyone that wants a better defense than Strudwick and Vandy should let it go?

Anyone that wants a better goalie than Khabby should let it go?

Or does Horcoff have some sort of special immunity where its taboo to suggest improving the position he plays?

Horc has special immunity because he's still an NHL caliber talent, something that Strudwick isn't and Bulin and Vandy are barely clinging too.

Cap hit aside, their isn't a team in the leauge that Horcoff doesn't make.

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#7 robinrussia
June 09 2011, 10:14PM
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I hope he's not Minny's fist choice...Ottowa would be fine for me. Keep him away from the oilers, as he'd likely own us for a few years.

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#8 Oilcruzer
June 09 2011, 10:58PM
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mario66 wrote:

MacT never coached Steve MacIntyre.

He never coached a lot of players that last year. But Big Mac was there.

Bring on the draft. The scenarios are boggling.

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#9 Ender
June 10 2011, 11:52AM
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@Quicksilver ballet

I'm going to speculate Horcoff's days are indeed numbered. If my calculator works correctly, the number is somewhere around 1460.

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#10 Wax Man Riley
June 10 2011, 10:42PM
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DSF wrote:

This is the largest crock I've ever read.

If you reward mediocre talent with the most lucrative contract on the team, the message you're sending is that you don't need to excel.

Woody Allen said "70 percent of success is just showing up".

And that describes Horcoff to a tee.

Successful teams get their top performers to take a discount to make a run for the cup.

The Oilers pay a premium for plumbers.

I often wonder if the Oilers are operating under a trade union contract.

Seniority rules...no matter how incompetent you are.

Woody Allen also said "If you're not failing every now and again, it's a sign you're not doing anything very innovative."

When that contract was signed, Horcoff was coming off of a 73 point season and another 19 in the playoffs. He was a hard working, offensively producing, defensively responsible center. The Oilers just had a run to game 7 of the SCF. Lowe was trying to keep the team together and moving forward, and signing a player with everything named above sounded like a great idea.

Hindsight is 20/20 of course.

WTF does Woody Allen know about hockey anyway?

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#12 Velo
June 10 2011, 12:18AM
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I'd love Stortini to get a job over there. I think he's more serviceable than our coaching staff believes.

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#13 mayorpoop
June 10 2011, 06:12AM
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good luck to him where ever he goes.

back to business tho,

go bruins and mavs!

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#14 justDOit
June 10 2011, 07:29AM
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How desperate are we that just the thought of MacT landing in Ottawa brings hope that he'll want some of our cast-offs? And I'm just as desperate as anyone!

The Sens do have some interesting trade options though, so let the speculation begin!

Spezza for Cogs and Horcs + 2nd or 3rd? I think he'd bring his play up considerably if he didn't have a GM who pronounced his name like "Jatzshin Tzspetztztzha".

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#15 brodie
June 10 2011, 10:10AM
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Love him or hate him Horcoff is the Oilers best center. You don't improve your team by trading the best player at a certain position. As an aside wouldn't it be embarrassing if Winnipeg made the playoffs and the Oilers don't.

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#16 D-Man
June 10 2011, 11:44AM
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Quicksilver ballet wrote:

At this point you're correct Obbie, he's pretty much all we got when he's healthy. I'm just hoping the Oilers take a step(or two) towards pushing him down in the lineup and eventually out of the picture. I think after 5 yrs of this futility and the fact that he's still the Oilers No.1 center, along with the money issue, is what makes him such a desirable target.

It's Friday Obbie, lets not fight, see what happens at the draft in two weeks, and then, we can bring out all of our blunt instruments to beat ourselves up again.

Horcoff,Smid and the 19th to MacTavish's Senators for Jason Spezza.

That's probably not enough for Spezza even though the 19th pick would help them with their rebuild... Why would they want Horcoff's bad contract?? You'd probably have to dish up Gagner, MPS, Smid and the 19th for Ottawa to even consider that trade... And that would be way too much for me...

Question to you - would you rather win 28 to 30 games this year and finish about 25th overall or win 32 to 35 and finish about 20th?? I get the impression from your posts that you want to win now and have no patience for this rebuild.. To me - to build a sustaining, winning culture - we need to build through the draft and not chase high priced FA's right now... That 'chasing' will happen in two/three more years when we're a legit playoff contending team...

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#17 Chris.
June 10 2011, 11:57AM
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Quicksilver ballet wrote:

You know as well as i do, as soon as the Oilers have something better happening down the middle, Katz won't hesitate to make that business decision to finally turf Horcoff. It's not a matter of if, it's only a matter of when Ender.

Yes the coundown to the end of the 2014-2015 season has already begun.

*Edit Damn it Ender. Beat me to it... and with math!

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#18 David S
June 10 2011, 01:16PM
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Taylor Hall and Jordan Eberle had really nice rookie seasons in both the counting numbers and scoring chances. It is worth noting however that they were giving a ton of chances back to their opponents, but only when Shawn Horcoff wasn't on the ice with them. Horcoff's all-around ability and defensive prowess really helped the two young forwards find their way.

http://www.coppernblue.com/2011/6/10/2180779/edmonton-oilers-even-strength-scoring-chances-2010-2011#storyjump

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#19 Wax Man Riley
June 10 2011, 11:02PM
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@DSF

Actually his history showed a player that was consistently improving.

I'm not arguing that Horcoff is not a #1C or that it is a bad contract, or that I would have signed him to that contract. I am saying that Horcoff is a good NHL player that most, if not all teams would want on their club.

Does trading 2 first round picks define Burke? It was a poor move, but I wouldn't say that it defines him. Most GMs have made a bad decision (most not named Holland anyway), and most teams have that huge, unmovable contract as well.

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#20 @Oilanderp
June 11 2011, 02:38AM
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Thanks LT for a wonderful article about MacHorcofftavish. I feel quite sure that everyone has been confirmed in their presuppositions, and those of us who weren't, well we can feel safe in the fact that we either didn't read the appropriate select comments, or that we didn't presuppose, I suppose. This once again just goes to show that we are all absolutely correct all the time and I will argue this incontrovertible fact to the death at my convenience.

In conclusion gentleman, I would like to say that I told someone so, and thank you Gladis for the meat-pies. Canoe Canoe.

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#21 sizedoesmatter
June 09 2011, 11:01PM
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MacT has been gone long enough that I miss him hope he gets the job in Ottawa.

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#22 Peterborough
June 10 2011, 12:46AM
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Velo wrote:

I'd love Stortini to get a job over there. I think he's more serviceable than our coaching staff believes.

It would be sweet to get a 6-7th rounder for him, JF too!

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#23 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
June 10 2011, 09:29AM
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Brad wrote:

Pretty shortsighted way of looking at things.

a) dollar for dollar he has one of the worst contracts in the leauge

b) an expansion team pick up a better group of centers than Edmonton.. but yeah.. lets cling to the worst group of C's in the NHL.

Same old song and dance.

Until the Oilers are a cap team (likely 2-3 more years) his cap hit is irrelavant.

Sure it sucks to have (one of) the worst group of centers in the league, I'm pretty sure the answer isn't to remove the best of the group though

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#24 Brad
June 10 2011, 09:45AM
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raceguy wrote:

Brad,

Let it go man,lifes too short.Yeah the contract worked out bad with the injuries.Shyte happens.

So anyone that wants a better defense than Strudwick and Vandy should let it go?

Anyone that wants a better goalie than Khabby should let it go?

Or does Horcoff have some sort of special immunity where its taboo to suggest improving the position he plays?

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#25 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
June 10 2011, 10:26AM
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Brad wrote:

Horcoff could probably play on every clubs 4th line (assuming they weren't looking for physical play).

Look at the two clubs in the finals right now.

On Boston Horcoff would be playng behind Krejci, Bergeron and Kelly.

On Vancouver Horcoff would be playing behind Sedin, Kesler and Malhotra.

He's a bottom 6 player on any good team.

I'm pretty confident he'd be ahead of Kelly for sure, probably Malhotra as well.

What guys like you never seem to grasp is that to become a better hockey team we need to get to a point where Horcoff is the 3C here *because* we have 2 superior centers, simply removing him from the team makes the team worse, not better.

It's mind numbing that theirs so many people that can't understand this.

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#26 David S
June 10 2011, 10:35AM
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And I'd bet Horcoff would take a pay cut to play with the same level of guys Malholtra gets to play with.

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#27 Archaeologuy
June 10 2011, 10:53AM
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Brad wrote:

So anyone that wants a better defense than Strudwick and Vandy should let it go?

Anyone that wants a better goalie than Khabby should let it go?

Or does Horcoff have some sort of special immunity where its taboo to suggest improving the position he plays?

Yes. Actually. Horcoff has special immunity. It's called a No Movement Clause. He has one.

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#28 Quicksilver ballet
June 10 2011, 10:57AM
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@OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F

At this point you're correct Obbie, he's pretty much all we got when he's healthy. I'm just hoping the Oilers take a step(or two) towards pushing him down in the lineup and eventually out of the picture. I think after 5 yrs of this futility and the fact that he's still the Oilers No.1 center, along with the money issue, is what makes him such a desirable target.

It's Friday Obbie, lets not fight, see what happens at the draft in two weeks, and then, we can bring out all of our blunt instruments to beat ourselves up again.

Horcoff,Smid and the 19th to MacTavish's Senators for Jason Spezza.

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#29 Pronger's Wife
June 10 2011, 11:23AM
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Jordan Eberle just won TSN's NHL play of the year.

There he goes, flying into the Calgary zone on a 2 on 1. He looks over at his 2 on 1 partner and decides to... deke!! Beautiful goal!!

Who was his 2 on 1 partner?

a) Taylor Hall b) Barak Obama c) Shawn Horcoff d) Anthony Weiner

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#30 David S
June 10 2011, 11:30AM
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@Oilanderp wrote:

When the Trollie Trollertons combine forces with the Anti-Horculeans, they still only make a weak at best gathering of rabble-rousers. Archers! Let fly! *ducks behind the castle wall*

"Anti-Horculeans"

Awesome!

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#31 David S
June 10 2011, 12:04PM
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Quicksilver ballet wrote:

You know as well as i do, as soon as the Oilers have something better happening down the middle, Katz won't hesitate to make that business decision to finally turf Horcoff. It's not a matter of if, it's only a matter of when Ender.

Don't count on it. Self-made billionaires tend to make a minimum of poor business decisions.

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#32 Quicksilver ballet
June 10 2011, 01:05PM
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CanaDave wrote:

If the Bruins had Horcoff they wouldn't have traded for Kelly a the deadline this season, and if the Canucks had Horcoff then they probably wouldn't have offered Malhotra a contract in the last offseason. I'm constantly amazed when people around here can't seem to get past the contract Horcoff signed and use that as their major argument to criticize him.

Horcoff signed that contract 2 weeks after Katz officially became owner of the team, and Katz was incredibly smart to sign him to it. It sent a message to the community that he wasn't going to let Oilers all-stars, which Horcoff was in 2008, walk away because another team was going to pay them more. It signaled to me at least that the Oilers finally had an owner that wasn't going to be content with having a team that scraped and clawed and looked at finishing 8th as a massive achievement and something to be proud of, because it's not.

I'm sure that when this extension was signed it was imagined that when it was all said and done Gagner would be an emerging if not full emerged elite #1 C who would be worthy of making 7mil+ per season based on his incredibly strong 07-08 rookie season. Now that 3 years have passed and the Oilers have a future superstar on their team (Hall) who is going to be worth more than that in the NHL market by 14-15 it's a moot point.

Signing Horcoff to that contract also sent and should continue to send a message to every Oilers player not drafted in the top 10 or even in the 1st round, that if they bust their ass and work hard at their game like Horcoff has their entire career they will be rewarded for it and treated like a superstar regardless of whether they are drafted 1st overall or 99th. Horcoff can fairly identify with and relate to every forward in the organization right now since he had to earn everything he's gotten in the NHL. He can talk to a young player drafted in the mid-rounds from his experience there and tell them how to view a demotion to the AHL as a chance to grow and improve amongst other things, and he can also tell and advise the younger generation of players what it's like to play at an all-star level against the best competition every other team in the NHL can throw at you night in and night out.

Wanting to get rid of an asset like Horcoff for anything at this point is near insanity to me, because without him it's even more unfair to Gagner, Cogliano, and if they draft him RNH to ask and expect of them to learn to become winners and champions in this league without any real guidance or any veteran presence to act as both a leader to them on and off the ice.

Now as far as the actual topic of this post goes, if the Oilers could get any draft pick for Stortini's or Jacques rights then I'd suggest taking it, since I don't think that they fit into Coach Renney's vision of the team he wants assembled. If you can't get any value for them, then hopefully they work their butts off over the summer and make the team outright in the fall, or else they are 2 pretty decent AHL players to have on the farm team.

Like the Bruins or the Canucks are going to put a 5.5 cap hit on their forth line. The Bruins/Canucks are where they are today, because they never made a dumb decision like the Oilers did on #10.....gimme a break. In 2 yrs Horcoff will be forth line here as well, think the Oilers will be willing to swallow that when cap space is at a premium?

The Oilers are a moving target, what seemed to be an ideal signing by Katz in 08 has come full circle and is now an albatross to this franchise.

Whatever it is you're trying to sell, i ain't buying it buddy. Sure didn't take Katz that long to make his first mistake. Guess it goes to show the kid on the block with the most money isn't always the smartest when it comes to hockey decisions.

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#33 Wes Mantooth
June 10 2011, 01:32PM
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I like the back and forth of comments on Horcoff.

There is an argument for both for and against Horcoff. Yes he is over paid (grossly I might add) and is therefore un-tradable, so like it or not he is most likely here to stay.

Horcoff is being over used by the coaching staff because of the lack of talent at center the club has.

Horcoff should be on the 2nd power play not the 1st, actually should not even be on the PP.

Horcoff should not be on the 1st line, he should be on the 3rd, in a checking role one he is good at. Horcoff should be on the penalty kill, but should not have 20+ minutes a game.

Horcoff is playing big minutes for what his role should be which is a checking center. This would explain IMO why his plus/minus sucked so bad, Why he gets injured often and his role is to expansive for what he’s good at.

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#34 justDOit
June 10 2011, 05:30PM
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Silliness is wanting to get rid of your best center, especially on a team with only one.

Horc's the hardest worker and a great captain, but he's a little over his head in the #1 role some nights. Put him at #2, and he'd be one of your favorite Oilers (as he was in 2008, when he had some help down the middle).

I think Horcoff's biggest mistake was playing that season with injuries (was it 2009?) which limited his effectiveness. But he didn't stand down, he dug deep and put a lot of heart into everything he did.

So let's do a poll - how many trollers here would refuse the contract that he was offered in 2008? Hmmmm? Maybe just a show of hands would suffice...

Here's my big concern about Horcs: an article a few years back mentioned that he's best buddies with Katz. That's a dangerous dynamic to have on a team, IMO.

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#35 Chris.
June 10 2011, 08:29PM
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All those morons yelling, "Loooooouuuu!"...after a routine freezing of the puck; are the same people who cheered when "Lou" was pulled only 48 hours ago.

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#36 rickithebear
June 11 2011, 12:30AM
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Horcoffs pt/gm rank for centers each year. he needs to stay healthy.

05-06 #18 .92pt/gm 06-07 #38 .62pt/gm 07-08 #13 .94pt/gm 08-09 #35 .66pt/gm 09-10 #57 .47pt/gm 10-11 #35 .58pt/gm

So his production has been #1 center two years, top #2 center 3 years, bottom #2 center 1 year while playing toughs and usually poor defensive starts. what crack heads think he is a #3. We need him to be healthy and play all season.

The year he signed was after the 08-09 season the 08-09 season there was only one center who face the other teams best in a tough zone shift setting and outscored them. MR. horcoff. Mike richards was almost there.

he should have been signed for the league average for good shutdown centers 4.75m.

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#37 jybute
June 09 2011, 10:16PM
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What the FIST??

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#38 jybute
June 09 2011, 10:17PM
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jybute wrote:

What the FIST??

Unbelievable. Must have been three point five

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#39 mario66
June 09 2011, 10:20PM
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MacT never coached Steve MacIntyre.

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#40 gongshow
June 09 2011, 10:21PM
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Chris Neil would be fantastic. I'm crossing my fingers that the Oil can add Neil and/or Zenon the Barbarian this offseason.

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#41 Wanyes bastard child
June 09 2011, 10:27PM
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@mario66

Pwned :P

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#42 Mrs. Potato Dick
June 09 2011, 11:17PM
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Oilcruzer wrote:

He never coached a lot of players that last year. But Big Mac was there.

Bring on the draft. The scenarios are boggling.

Yeah the possible scenarios are mind boggling...the reality usually far less so. I can't see much happening. The signing of Jim Vandermeer will be the biggest off-season news.

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#43 Velo
June 10 2011, 02:21AM
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@Peterborough

To be truthful, I think in the proper roles Storts is more valuable and more responsible defensively than JFJ. Anything for these players would be good at this juncture.

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#44 pelhem grenville
June 10 2011, 04:30AM
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...look at that, MacT with choices...hmmm Minny or the Sens...i had a lot of time for MacT but...

i can only hope that wherever he goes, he asks for JackFakeJock so he can give him more chances to establish himself in the NHL...please ask

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#45 Sheldon "Oilers Fan for Life!!!"
June 10 2011, 07:21AM
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If the Bruins win tonight its over they will win at home as well. If Vancouver wins it will go seven games as the Bruins will still win at home. If it goes to Seven odds will be in Vancouver's Favor.

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#46 Pronger's Wife
June 10 2011, 08:04AM
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Always liked MacT, and I think it's pretty clear now that it wasn't he that was the problem(besides playing Reddox on the first line that is - what the?!).

Chris Neal would be an interesting acquisition for the Oil. BTW, any news on the Oilers thoughts on Hemsky? If he doesn't re-sign this summer, I think he's as good as gone. Hope that's not the case, as we need some veteran help for the kids and it would be too bad to get rid of him in his prime.

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#47 Pronger's Wife
June 10 2011, 08:04AM
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Ooops sorry - double posted!

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#48 jake
June 10 2011, 08:29AM
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"Tom Gilbert: Still an effective defenseman but may have outstayed his welcome in Edmonton"

Lowetide, is this from a fan or organization perspective??

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What do you seriously get for Jacques and Stortini? Stortini won't be qualified and even if Jacques is qualified I don't think he has any value as he is probably a waiver wire guy come October.

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#50 Brad
June 10 2011, 09:13AM
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For the love of God, please take Shawn Horcoff.

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