MacT Godsend?

Lowetide
June 09 2011 10:10PM

Rumors tonight have Craig MacTavish in the final group under consideration for the Ottawa Senators coaching job. Should MacT win the day, could that impact the 2011 draft board and inspire a trade or two between Ottawa and Edmonton?  

Craig MacTavish has been loyal to most of his players since leaving the Oiler organization, to the point of a painful television moment this past winter where he defended Shawn Horcoff as a capable option in many circumstances. I've long felt that Craig MacTavish was an excellent coach who stayed too long at the fair in Edmonton and lost the veterans on the club. Much of that likely came from his very public rips of Dustin Penner, which continue unabated by others on the left coast. 

MacT left some fine players in Edmonton, men he'd come to count on. Many of his foot soldiers have been sent down the line (Moreau, Staios, etc), but there are a few still living in Edmonton. 

Remember 2006?

Among the 2006 Oilers, center Shawn Horcoff (always a MacT favorite) and winger Ales Hemsky remain. Both would be helpful additions to the Ottawa Senators, but that team is also in building mode so would be unlikely to add either player.

MacT's Rookies

From fall 2000 through the day MacT stepped down as coach, a lot of kids graduated to the show under his watch. Some, like Daniel Cleary and Raffi Torres, came from other organizations. Others were Oilers draft picks and through his years on the job MacTavish displayed an admirable quality: pedigree didn't count for much.

MacT's list of rookies is a long one and they displayed a wide variety of skills. He played Sam Gagner the most among rookie forwards, Steve MacIntyre the least. The 07-08 group was probably the best (Gagner, Cogliano, Brodziak, Gilbert, etc) and 05-06 didn't have much to offer as the veteran team tracked destiny.

Here are 5 current Oilers I can see coach MacT asking his GM to acquire:

  1. Tom Gilbert: Still an effective defenseman but may have outstayed his welcome in Edmonton. The Senators could use an effective finesse defender and Gilbert could be available.
  2. Andrew Cogliano: The double whammy here, as GM Murray tried to grab Cogs in the Dany Heatley deal. Cogliano no doubt pleased coach Renney so it might be a no-go from Edmonton, but one imagines he'll ask.
  3. Ladislav Smid: As with Cogliano, Murray attempted to acquire Smid in the Heatley trade a couple of whiskey sour's ago. Ottawa is building a tight blue line, perhaps Smid would be an effective role player.
  4. Zack Stortini: Stortini played his best NHL hockey under MacT and could be a solid 13-14F for the veteran coach. Added value: with Stortini on the roster, there's one guy who'll always have your back.
  5. JF Jacques: Laugh at your peril. MacT gave him a job and then give him chance after chance to establish himself in the National Hockey League.

What's coming back? 

Ottawa has a few things that Edmonton would find attractive. Along with draft picks (Sens want to trade up btw), Edmonton might like the looks of men like Chris Neil, prospect Jared Cowen, Bobby Butler and Colin Greening.

I don't think much will come of this, maybe a Stortini trade for a depth pick. Still, should MacT get the job it makes sense that the Senators might come knocking and ask after some of his former players.

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Lowetide has been one of the Oilogosphere's shining lights for over a century. You can check him out here at OilersNation and at lowetide.ca. He is also the host of Lowdown with Lowetide weekday mornings 10-noon on TSN 1260.
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#51 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
June 10 2011, 09:18AM
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Brad wrote:

For the love of God, please take Shawn Horcoff.

~No doubt, the team would be far better running Gagner/Cogliano/Brule/Fraser down the middle~

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#52 Brad
June 10 2011, 09:23AM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

~No doubt, the team would be far better running Gagner/Cogliano/Brule/Fraser down the middle~

Pretty shortsighted way of looking at things.

a) dollar for dollar he has one of the worst contracts in the leauge

b) an expansion team pick up a better group of centers than Edmonton.. but yeah.. lets cling to the worst group of C's in the NHL.

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#53 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
June 10 2011, 09:31AM
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@Brad

Since no one else seems to be able to get through to you, I'll refer you to one of the top coaches in the league and what his thoughts are on Horcoff:

"but one thing not a lot of people are talking about is Horcoff is back healthy. He is a real good two-way centre and he's looked good."

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#54 Brad
June 10 2011, 09:35AM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

Same old song and dance.

Until the Oilers are a cap team (likely 2-3 more years) his cap hit is irrelavant.

Sure it sucks to have (one of) the worst group of centers in the league, I'm pretty sure the answer isn't to remove the best of the group though

Horcoff could make a million dollars and still be poor value if he plays in the top 6 because he's a below average top 6 player. Waaaay below.

Comparing him to 3rd liner centers around the league, way below average in terms of physical play, below average in terms of draws, average-below average on the PK

Bottom line is Horcoff is owed 19.5M real money. Anyone who suggests Edmonton could make better use of those resources is an idiot.

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#55 Brad
June 10 2011, 09:37AM
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"but one thing not a lot of people are talking about is Horcoff is back healthy. He is a real good two-way centre and he's looked good."

"Robert Nilsson could lead this team in points."

- Craig MacTavish

Some random comment from a coach means nothing.

Pretty amazing that Horcoff is healthy in the OFFSEASON. lol

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#56 raceguy
June 10 2011, 09:39AM
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Brad wrote:

Horcoff could make a million dollars and still be poor value if he plays in the top 6 because he's a below average top 6 player. Waaaay below.

Comparing him to 3rd liner centers around the league, way below average in terms of physical play, below average in terms of draws, average-below average on the PK

Bottom line is Horcoff is owed 19.5M real money. Anyone who suggests Edmonton could make better use of those resources is an idiot.

Brad,

Let it go man,lifes too short.Yeah the contract worked out bad with the injuries.Shyte happens.

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#57 Brad
June 10 2011, 09:40AM
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MacTavish is basically the only window that we could get out of Horcoff's contract. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the idea.

Couple years ago there was rumors that Montreal was interested in Gomez and Horcoff.

Lets not make the same mistake twice.

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#58 Quicksilver ballet
June 10 2011, 09:43AM
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@Brad

I like your thinking Brad but this just isn't the Oiler way of doing things. Many here are resigned to the fact that this is such a bad deal that nobody else will be willing to take on a contract like this, and for the most part, they're correct if everyone just sits on their hands and does nothing.

There has to be some way to fudge him into another organization somehow, the OIlers need to be creative and perhaps send a second/third round pick with him and take another shorter term bad contract back this way. I could tolerate one more yr of Horcoff but 4 more yrs of Horcoff is a farce with a 5.5 cap hit. Like it or not this contract is hancuffing the Oilers, it needs to disappear in the next 12 months. For Christ's sake bury him in Oklahoma and let him be a role model to the kids down there.

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#59 John Chambers
June 10 2011, 09:53AM
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justDOit wrote:

How desperate are we that just the thought of MacT landing in Ottawa brings hope that he'll want some of our cast-offs? And I'm just as desperate as anyone!

The Sens do have some interesting trade options though, so let the speculation begin!

Spezza for Cogs and Horcs + 2nd or 3rd? I think he'd bring his play up considerably if he didn't have a GM who pronounced his name like "Jatzshin Tzspetztztzha".

Bryan Murray speech impediment jokes are high quality and will never grow old.

A funny name to run through the Murray slobber-mill is Gabriel Landetztzshkog. God I hope the Sens draft him. It will make my Jun 24th to hear that interview.

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#60 Brad
June 10 2011, 09:54AM
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@ Quicksilver Ballet

I'm not a huge fan of Brain Burke but if he was our GM an under-performing big ticket like Horcoff would be called out and eventually shipped out of town. Tambellini doesn't have the balls for that though.

He would rather blame everything on Souray.. the only Oiler besides Peckham that played with an edge.

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#61 LoDog
June 10 2011, 09:56AM
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Quicksilver ballet wrote:

I like your thinking Brad but this just isn't the Oiler way of doing things. Many here are resigned to the fact that this is such a bad deal that nobody else will be willing to take on a contract like this, and for the most part, they're correct if everyone just sits on their hands and does nothing.

There has to be some way to fudge him into another organization somehow, the OIlers need to be creative and perhaps send a second/third round pick with him and take another shorter term bad contract back this way. I could tolerate one more yr of Horcoff but 4 more yrs of Horcoff is a farce with a 5.5 cap hit. Like it or not this contract is hancuffing the Oilers, it needs to disappear in the next 12 months. For Christ's sake bury him in Oklahoma and let him be a role model to the kids down there.

Horcoff can't be sent to the minors until after the 2012-2013 season. If his contract is a burden at that time (the kids will need to resigned) then I expect he will be traded or sent down. Until then I suspect he will stay an Oiler.

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#62 Brad
June 10 2011, 09:57AM
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Speaking if Tambellini not having enough "test".. when Edmonton passes on RNH, know that he did so because he didn't want to trade Sam Gagner (RNH and Gagner 1-2 isn't a match) so he will take the easy way out.

Would love to be proved wrong though.

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#63 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
June 10 2011, 10:06AM
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Brad wrote:

"but one thing not a lot of people are talking about is Horcoff is back healthy. He is a real good two-way centre and he's looked good."

"Robert Nilsson could lead this team in points."

- Craig MacTavish

Some random comment from a coach means nothing.

Pretty amazing that Horcoff is healthy in the OFFSEASON. lol

Comment was made in season.

Sorry Brad

Backock >>>>>>>>>>>>> Brad

When it comes to assesing hockey ability.

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#64 Brad
June 10 2011, 10:10AM
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@ Ender

There is more Homers in this thread than one of Sammy Sosa's corked bats in the steroid era.

Look at how physical the SCF is. The sad thing is the Sedin's sisters would slap Horcoff around.

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#65 Brad
June 10 2011, 10:17AM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

Horc has special immunity because he's still an NHL caliber talent, something that Strudwick isn't and Bulin and Vandy are barely clinging too.

Cap hit aside, their isn't a team in the leauge that Horcoff doesn't make.

Horcoff could probably play on every clubs 4th line (assuming they weren't looking for physical play).

Look at the two clubs in the finals right now.

On Boston Horcoff would be playng behind Krejci, Bergeron and Kelly.

On Vancouver Horcoff would be playing behind Sedin, Kesler and Malhotra.

He's a bottom 6 player on any good team.

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#66 Westcoastoil
June 10 2011, 10:19AM
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The constant hate against Horcoff makes no sense and is plain stupid. The last few years he's had to carry the C load on a club by himself like few others in the league have been asked to do. It's reasonable to assume that this has had an impact on his injuries. He works hard, plays hard, is a solid 2 way player and a very good leader. What more do you want?

Sure he has bad contract, but: 1) that's not his fault - are you going to turn down too much salary? 2) most teams have a least 1 bad contract 3) we aren't up against the cap.

Take a look at the roster and he isn't the problem. Give him 2 top 6 wingers and that's an effective 2nd line.

We're what 3/4 years into his contract - get over it already. And don't bring up the BS about "overpaid millionaire lazy players". They're all millionaires, they're all overpaid and he isn't lazy.

Vent at something else.

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#67 Westcoastoil
June 10 2011, 10:24AM
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Brad wrote:

Horcoff could probably play on every clubs 4th line (assuming they weren't looking for physical play).

Look at the two clubs in the finals right now.

On Boston Horcoff would be playng behind Krejci, Bergeron and Kelly.

On Vancouver Horcoff would be playing behind Sedin, Kesler and Malhotra.

He's a bottom 6 player on any good team.

Why would Horcoff automatically be behind Malhotra? Manny is better on the dot, but he also has the benefit of being behind 2 other centres. Horc brings more offence and can shut down just as well as Manny.

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#68 Westcoastoil
June 10 2011, 10:25AM
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@Brad

and he'd play ahead of Kelly

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#69 David S
June 10 2011, 10:28AM
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Ender wrote:

I love reading high fantasy.

There are more trolls in this thread than a Tolkien novel.

Propped.

Ender, this may be your best post EVAR!

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#70 Quicksilver ballet
June 10 2011, 10:36AM
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Brad wrote:

@ Ender

There is more Homers in this thread than one of Sammy Sosa's corked bats in the steroid era.

Look at how physical the SCF is. The sad thing is the Sedin's sisters would slap Horcoff around.

There's no end to the complacency here Brad, it's rampant amongst many members here as well. They seem to want to just sit in the corner and suck their thumbs till another Wayne Gretzky comes along.

Trolls we are i guess....but we know this is more or less the pots callings us kettles black eh.

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#71 D-Man
June 10 2011, 10:37AM
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Brad wrote:

Horcoff could probably play on every clubs 4th line (assuming they weren't looking for physical play).

Look at the two clubs in the finals right now.

On Boston Horcoff would be playng behind Krejci, Bergeron and Kelly.

On Vancouver Horcoff would be playing behind Sedin, Kesler and Malhotra.

He's a bottom 6 player on any good team.

Of course, by using the top two teams as your sample size supports your argument.. But if you expanded that sample size to every team in the league - you'd see that Horc would be an good #2 center and an excellent #3... We don't really need to look at the stats but for arguments sake...

Phoenix - Belanger, Turris, Hanzal

Los Angeles - Richardson, Handzus, Stoll

Anaheim - Getzlaf, Koivu, McMillan

Chicago - Toews, Sharp, Bolland

Tampa Bay - Stamkos, Lecavaleir, Moore

Here are five teams that I'd argue would be better if Horcoff were there #2 center (Phoenix, LA) or #3 center (Anaheim, Chicago, Tampa Bay).. Horcoff got about as many points as their #3's in half the games (27 points/47 games)... He might not be as physical as maybe Bolland - but defensively, is as good or better than most of the centers (seeded #2 or #3) on this list..

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#72 Ender
June 10 2011, 10:43AM
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Ender wrote:

I love reading high fantasy.

There are more trolls in this thread than a Tolkien novel.

@ Brad

The fact that you replied says you know who you are.

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#73 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
June 10 2011, 10:44AM
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Quicksilver ballet wrote:

There's no end to the complacency here Brad, it's rampant amongst many members here as well. They seem to want to just sit in the corner and suck their thumbs till another Wayne Gretzky comes along.

Trolls we are i guess....but we know this is more or less the pots callings us kettles black eh.

It has nothing to do with complacency and everything to do with reality.

The team is better with Horcoff then without, simple as that.

if a trade can be worked out that benfits the team then fine, however simply removing him is a step backwards.

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#74 Quicksilver ballet
June 10 2011, 10:46AM
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LoDog wrote:

Horcoff can't be sent to the minors until after the 2012-2013 season. If his contract is a burden at that time (the kids will need to resigned) then I expect he will be traded or sent down. Until then I suspect he will stay an Oiler.

Always thought he could be sent down simply by clearing waivers. I won't argue your point, you may know more about the CBA than i do.

The sad part of this argument is that Horcoff is the best center right now when he's not injured.

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#75 Brad
June 10 2011, 11:02AM
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Archaeologuy wrote:

Yes. Actually. Horcoff has special immunity. It's called a No Movement Clause. He has one.

You really think Horcoff would veto a trade that would reunite him with MacTavish? Perhaps a change scenery would be good for Horcoff. I'm sure he would be the first guy to tell you he hasn't performed as expected after signing that huge contract.

Like I said, Horcoff to Ottawa is probably the only window we'll get when it comes to moving him.

If MacTavish gets the job, I would hope Tambellini would be pretty aggressive trying to find Horc a home in the nations capital.

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#76 Tapdog
June 10 2011, 11:03AM
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LT sorry for not being on topic but had to pass this along. I am sure most know about it already.

http://oilers.c1ms.com/2011draft/

Nicely put together by the Oilers!

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#77 @Oilanderp
June 10 2011, 11:11AM
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@Tapdog

How could you be off topic? After reading all the Horc comments I actually had to scroll up and re-read the article because I forgot what it was about.

A long time ago, Lowetide made this post: http://oilersnation.com/2011/6/7/simply-the-best

To the anti-horculeans out there just go read that.

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#78 Archaeologuy
June 10 2011, 11:13AM
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@Brad

He's Captain, he's been here his whole career, he can see that this team is going to get better. Why go to an unfamiliar place that isnt a winner?

I dont have a problem with your assessment of Horc, but moving him out right now is Pie in the Sky. That's all.

The window to move him is non-existant.

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#79 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
June 10 2011, 11:17AM
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Quicksilver ballet wrote:

At this point you're correct Obbie, he's pretty much all we got when he's healthy. I'm just hoping the Oilers take a step(or two) towards pushing him down in the lineup and eventually out of the picture. I think after 5 yrs of this futility and the fact that he's still the Oilers No.1 center, along with the money issue, is what makes him such a desirable target.

It's Friday Obbie, lets not fight, see what happens at the draft in two weeks, and then, we can bring out all of our blunt instruments to beat ourselves up again.

Horcoff,Smid and the 19th to MacTavish's Senators for Jason Spezza.

Of course I'd do that trade. That's a no brainer.

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#80 Ender
June 10 2011, 11:31AM
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Pronger's Wife wrote:

Jordan Eberle just won TSN's NHL play of the year.

There he goes, flying into the Calgary zone on a 2 on 1. He looks over at his 2 on 1 partner and decides to... deke!! Beautiful goal!!

Who was his 2 on 1 partner?

a) Taylor Hall b) Barak Obama c) Shawn Horcoff d) Anthony Weiner

That 'd)' guy sounds so familiar somehow . . . was it him?

Or was he the guy taking all the pictures of Luongo with his pants down . . . I get so confused with names . . .

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#81 Quicksilver ballet
June 10 2011, 11:37AM
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Ender wrote:

If you know something, and everyone else is wrong about it . . . maybe it's time to start exploring the idea that everyone else isn't where the problem lies.

You know as well as i do, as soon as the Oilers have something better happening down the middle, Katz won't hesitate to make that business decision to finally turf Horcoff. It's not a matter of if, it's only a matter of when Ender.

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#82 Team Hall
June 10 2011, 11:43AM
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It seems lately the fad is away from the rookie coaches from the AHL (except for the NYI, beat of their own cheap drum), experienced playoff coaches are in vogue again. MacT is a heck of a playoff coach. I'd take him back as an assistant any day.

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#83 Quicksilver ballet
June 10 2011, 12:24PM
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@D-Man

Not saying Spezza is the answer to what's going on here now, just suggesting a way that may entice a rebuilding team to take him on.

Answer to your question- there's no denying this coming year's going to be another dogs breakfast. I'd rather watch it having Hopkins,Couturier and Gudbranson in the fold, anyone not named Hall and Eberle may be used as bait. Add a few more 18 and 19 yr olds and see if there's some chemistry. We don't need Hemsky,Gagner,Smid,Brule,Gilbert etc just so we can finish deadlast again.

Let these kids grow together as a group, i'm sure 3 or 4 out of that group of 5 will turn into impact players inside of two yrs. Anything that doesn't/isn't going to mesh with this group needs to be jettisoned. We're back to square one again but things really are this bad here right now. Sell the farm and add to this all important Hall and Eberle group now while there's still a chance. Adding one boobie prize every year isn't going to cut it.

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#84 Quicksilver ballet
June 10 2011, 12:34PM
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Ender wrote:

I'm going to speculate Horcoff's days are indeed numbered. If my calculator works correctly, the number is somewhere around 1460.

[shifts right fist back and forth in front of pelvic area]

...well played ender, well played. You may want to attach that calculator to your mitten strings for difficult math problems such as this in the future.

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#85 Peterborough
June 10 2011, 12:47PM
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CanaDave wrote:

If the Bruins had Horcoff they wouldn't have traded for Kelly a the deadline this season, and if the Canucks had Horcoff then they probably wouldn't have offered Malhotra a contract in the last offseason. I'm constantly amazed when people around here can't seem to get past the contract Horcoff signed and use that as their major argument to criticize him.

Horcoff signed that contract 2 weeks after Katz officially became owner of the team, and Katz was incredibly smart to sign him to it. It sent a message to the community that he wasn't going to let Oilers all-stars, which Horcoff was in 2008, walk away because another team was going to pay them more. It signaled to me at least that the Oilers finally had an owner that wasn't going to be content with having a team that scraped and clawed and looked at finishing 8th as a massive achievement and something to be proud of, because it's not.

I'm sure that when this extension was signed it was imagined that when it was all said and done Gagner would be an emerging if not full emerged elite #1 C who would be worthy of making 7mil+ per season based on his incredibly strong 07-08 rookie season. Now that 3 years have passed and the Oilers have a future superstar on their team (Hall) who is going to be worth more than that in the NHL market by 14-15 it's a moot point.

Signing Horcoff to that contract also sent and should continue to send a message to every Oilers player not drafted in the top 10 or even in the 1st round, that if they bust their ass and work hard at their game like Horcoff has their entire career they will be rewarded for it and treated like a superstar regardless of whether they are drafted 1st overall or 99th. Horcoff can fairly identify with and relate to every forward in the organization right now since he had to earn everything he's gotten in the NHL. He can talk to a young player drafted in the mid-rounds from his experience there and tell them how to view a demotion to the AHL as a chance to grow and improve amongst other things, and he can also tell and advise the younger generation of players what it's like to play at an all-star level against the best competition every other team in the NHL can throw at you night in and night out.

Wanting to get rid of an asset like Horcoff for anything at this point is near insanity to me, because without him it's even more unfair to Gagner, Cogliano, and if they draft him RNH to ask and expect of them to learn to become winners and champions in this league without any real guidance or any veteran presence to act as both a leader to them on and off the ice.

Now as far as the actual topic of this post goes, if the Oilers could get any draft pick for Stortini's or Jacques rights then I'd suggest taking it, since I don't think that they fit into Coach Renney's vision of the team he wants assembled. If you can't get any value for them, then hopefully they work their butts off over the summer and make the team outright in the fall, or else they are 2 pretty decent AHL players to have on the farm team.

Best post I've read in a long time. A healthy dose of reality and perspective all too often missing here.

Kudos sir.

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#86 Peterborough
June 10 2011, 12:53PM
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Ender wrote:

I'm going to speculate Horcoff's days are indeed numbered. If my calculator works correctly, the number is somewhere around 1460.

In good faith, I like thy wit well.

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#87 David S
June 10 2011, 12:54PM
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Gregor and Laraque behind the bike racks on Twitter right now.

#FightFight

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#88 D-Man
June 10 2011, 12:56PM
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Quicksilver ballet wrote:

Not saying Spezza is the answer to what's going on here now, just suggesting a way that may entice a rebuilding team to take him on.

Answer to your question- there's no denying this coming year's going to be another dogs breakfast. I'd rather watch it having Hopkins,Couturier and Gudbranson in the fold, anyone not named Hall and Eberle may be used as bait. Add a few more 18 and 19 yr olds and see if there's some chemistry. We don't need Hemsky,Gagner,Smid,Brule,Gilbert etc just so we can finish deadlast again.

Let these kids grow together as a group, i'm sure 3 or 4 out of that group of 5 will turn into impact players inside of two yrs. Anything that doesn't/isn't going to mesh with this group needs to be jettisoned. We're back to square one again but things really are this bad here right now. Sell the farm and add to this all important Hall and Eberle group now while there's still a chance. Adding one boobie prize every year isn't going to cut it.

I think you'll get your wish... There's probably going to be at least another two/three 18 to 20 year old skaters in this year's line up to go along with Hall & co.. I'm speculating that would be RNH and Lander... It'd be nice to get another stud rookie but I don't know if Tambo has enough cards in his hand (outside of Hemsky) to move up into the top 10...

But to add chemistry - you can't continually jettison everything that doesn't immediately mesh... You need to give it time.. I have no arguments with you that the group of Gagner/Smid/Brule/Gilbert needs to be upgraded - but we aren't going to do that in one quick swoop... There aren't enough quality FA's out there that would be willing to come here... That means we'll need to add one piece here at a time, through quality draft picks and the progression of our current group. Trades won't be an immediate fix either - many would like to think other teams would give up quality players; but we forget - if we have a problem with a Brule or Gilbert; why would a better team wish to inherit those problems?? In order to pass those problems along - then we're giving up draft picks - which gets us exactly back to where we started...

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#89 Milli
June 10 2011, 12:59PM
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Hey ah where is Wayne....because Eberle is the Play of the Year champ....thought there might be some mention of it...

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#90 David S
June 10 2011, 01:47PM
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Wes Mantooth wrote:

I like the back and forth of comments on Horcoff.

There is an argument for both for and against Horcoff. Yes he is over paid (grossly I might add) and is therefore un-tradable, so like it or not he is most likely here to stay.

Horcoff is being over used by the coaching staff because of the lack of talent at center the club has.

Horcoff should be on the 2nd power play not the 1st, actually should not even be on the PP.

Horcoff should not be on the 1st line, he should be on the 3rd, in a checking role one he is good at. Horcoff should be on the penalty kill, but should not have 20+ minutes a game.

Horcoff is playing big minutes for what his role should be which is a checking center. This would explain IMO why his plus/minus sucked so bad, Why he gets injured often and his role is to expansive for what he’s good at.

Yep.

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#91 LoDog
June 10 2011, 01:47PM
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David S wrote:

Gregor and Laraque behind the bike racks on Twitter right now.

#FightFight

What did Jason say that put the big dope in such a tizzy?

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#92 David S
June 10 2011, 02:19PM
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LoDog wrote:

What did Jason say that put the big dope in such a tizzy?

Difference of opinion on an interview. It'll be on Gregor's show today.

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#93 Quicksilver ballet
June 10 2011, 02:19PM
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David S wrote:
Taylor Hall and Jordan Eberle had really nice rookie seasons in both the counting numbers and scoring chances. It is worth noting however that they were giving a ton of chances back to their opponents, but only when Shawn Horcoff wasn't on the ice with them. Horcoff's all-around ability and defensive prowess really helped the two young forwards find their way.

http://www.coppernblue.com/2011/6/10/2180779/edmonton-oilers-even-strength-scoring-chances-2010-2011#storyjump

Silly sommbeach, why did you put that up for.

I'm conducting a study here, one of significant depth i might add. This is definately going to scue the data being gathered on this important study.

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#94 Dog Train
June 10 2011, 04:40PM
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The tough thing is that most of the guys that we want to get rid of are either d-men or centers. We have nobody really ready to step up at either position. Still, if we don't shuffle at least a few players around then we will still be on the outside looking in going forward.

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#95 DonDon
June 10 2011, 06:10PM
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Quicksilver Ballet wrote with reference to Horcoff: "...he's pretty much all we got when he's healthy." Can't agree more.

If the Oilers are in a serious rebuilding mode, there is a major problem at centre, how do you build on a crumbling foundation? The situation is equally bad on defence.

I wish MacTavish all the best in his pursuit of returning to the NHL as a head coach.

As for the owner, it is not unusual for successful businessmen to experience repeated brain cramps when they buy into professional sports, e.g. Washington Redskins, Jerry Jones etc, etc. If the owner was so smart, why is Lowe and Tambelinni still around? Why have the Oilers missed the playoffs five seasons running? Why have the Oilers ended in last place the last two seasons? Why did Tambi sign the teams MVP Khabibulin?

When will the insanity end?

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#96 michael
June 10 2011, 06:25PM
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Horcoff has earned respect and his contract. bloody if it wasn't for the frakin injuries he would have led this team in scoring last year. MacT deserves another shot. He is a capable coach.Penner? See Dean Lombardi's comments last month. The Oilers were a team in transition at the end of MacT's tenure. He deserved better than what he recieved from alot of the players. But as with all things it was time to move on. At this point Horcoff's value to the Oilers is not in goals and assists but in his leadership. This team needs him to lead generation next. Hall and Eberle need his experience. They need his leadership on and off the ice. he is the bridge for a whole new generation of Oilers. as was Kelly Buchberger and Ryan Smyth(Who the Oilers should bring back). Good luck to MacT.

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#97 Oilcruzer
June 10 2011, 06:34PM
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What the...?

Moving Horcoff doesn't solve anything. He is NOT a liability... He just isn't first line for a chmpionship team.

For now he will do, then put him on line two when the number one C is filled.

He was one of the better Oilers last year. I ain't a fanboy either.

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#98 Quicksilver ballet
June 10 2011, 07:54PM
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Oilcruzer wrote:

What the...?

Moving Horcoff doesn't solve anything. He is NOT a liability... He just isn't first line for a chmpionship team.

For now he will do, then put him on line two when the number one C is filled.

He was one of the better Oilers last year. I ain't a fanboy either.

Look at what you've written there Cruzer, as i go from left to right on each line i can't believe it's come to this for our Oilers here in Edmonton. Shawn Horcoff is a great first line center if we're in the American Hockey League Cruzer. It's a sad state, but he's our undisputed No.1 center on our NHL hockey club for half a season if we're fortunate. It's sad we're even grovelling over this? We're the weakest team at the center ice position in both the NHL and AHL. Sell whatever we can and get the two decent kids we have as much help as possible this summer. Lets not kid ourselves anymore, we suck.

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#99 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
June 10 2011, 08:29PM
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@ QSB. Tsk tsk. Ballard was a far bigger 'mistake' then Horcoff, 7 years for a 34 Y/O with concussion history is no screaming hell of a deal. Heck, both Widman and Ryder have been considerd horrible contracts at times and just last yea Thomas was considerd to have one of the worst contracts in the league.

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#100 Wax Man Riley
June 10 2011, 08:56PM
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Quicksilver ballet wrote:

Look at what you've written there Cruzer, as i go from left to right on each line i can't believe it's come to this for our Oilers here in Edmonton. Shawn Horcoff is a great first line center if we're in the American Hockey League Cruzer. It's a sad state, but he's our undisputed No.1 center on our NHL hockey club for half a season if we're fortunate. It's sad we're even grovelling over this? We're the weakest team at the center ice position in both the NHL and AHL. Sell whatever we can and get the two decent kids we have as much help as possible this summer. Lets not kid ourselves anymore, we suck.

Nobody is kidding themselves. i think the consensus is that Horc is not a #1. Everyone agrees that for the Oilers to be a contender, there has to be an upgrade at center.

The problem is the reality of the situation. We don't currently have the assets to trade for one unless you are trading Hall, Eberle, or PRV. Even then, I doubt there are the assets to trade for the #1.

Free agency is the only other route, and unless The Oil are looking to throw $12M a year at someone, that #1C won't sign here if they can sign in Van, or Tampa, or LA, etc...

The draft and development is the only real option at this point. It isn't a case of being complacent or dithering. It is working with what you have to work with.

We know The Oilers suck. No one is kidding themselves.

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