Andrew Cogliano and Asset Management

Jonathan Willis
July 19 2011 11:35PM

Earlier today, the Anaheim Ducks signed Andrew Cogliano to a three-year contract worth $2.39 million per season. Lowetide’s take on it is here, and he makes a quick comment on the Oilogosphere in the piece:

As an aside, if Steve Tambellini had signed this contract, I suspect Oiler Nation would be rushing to the internet to express their displeasure at the signing.

I think that deserves comment.

First off, I think it’s worth comparing the Cogliano contract to a couple of others. Ideally, these contracts would be to restricted free agent forwards, the players would be about the same age, and ideally they’d be signed this summer. Fortunately, we have two such examples to look at: Blake Wheeler and Michael Frolik.

  • Blake Wheeler: Two years, $2.55 million cap hit
  • Andrew Cogliano: Three years, $2.39 million cap hit
  • Michael Frolik: Three years, $2.33 million cap hit

How do those players compare, given that their age, status and contract situations are all similar?

Cogliano scored 45 points as a rookie, and recorded 18 goals each of his first two seasons – thanks to a shooting percentage more than twice as high as he’s recorded in either of the last two seasons (where he’s scored 10 and 11 goals respectively). The question is whether his first two seasons or the last two seasons better represent his NHL ability; given the fact that recent results deserve more weight and that Cogliano’s shooting percentage was insanely good the first two years, I’d bet on the latter. If that’s the case, than while Cogliano’s game has come along, offensively he’s not likely to be a game-breaker. Over the last two seasons, he’s scored 1.39 and 1.33 points for every 60 minutes of 5-on-5 play.

Blake Wheeler, on the other hand, has scored 18, 18 and 21 goals over the last three years. His goal-scoring the last two years hasn’t been attributable to shooting percentage, and while he’s played a somewhat similar role to Cogliano on the depth chart (i.e. complementary forward) he’s been a far better scorer, topping the 2.00 points per 60 mark two of the last three seasons (including 2010-11, where he managed 2.20 points per 60).

Michael Frolik is far and away the most complete player of the three. He’s recorded between 38 and 45 points over the last three years. In two of the last three years, he’s topped the 20-goal plateau; last year he finished with 11 goals thanks to a massive drop in shooting percentage (an 8.4% career shooter, Frolik scored at just a 4.4% clip last season). He played on a tough minutes line with Stephen Weiss and Nathan Horton as a sophomore, and saw an unusual amount of quality opponents with Weiss as a rookie. He recorded 1.73 points per 60 last season, and while he’s not the scorer that Wheeler is, he’s better than Cogliano.

In short: Anaheim probably overpaid for Cogliano, relative to the market. Other restricted free agents in the same age range but with a better track record got almost identical dollars and terms, and while Cogliano might grow into the contract he probably isn’t there yet.

The dollar figure on Cogliano’s new contract makes Steve Tambellini look better for trading him. We might present it as a choice, one between Eric Belanger and a second round pick as well as roughly $700,000 in savings, or Andrew Cogliano. Given that Belanger’s the better player, cheaper, was available at no cost other than money, and most importantly fits team needs better, that’s a great choice.

Even so, on a rebuilding team, it may not have been an easy one to make. Trading Cogliano is a risk; he’s young, has scored in the past, has blazing speed and rarely left anyone questioning his effort level. He’s also been exceptionally durable.

Personally, I think it’s a smart risk. The Oilers have, in the past, been reluctant to sever ties with far worse players than Cogliano. Steve Tambellini made a smart choice here, and given that I’d be criticizing the signing (had he made it), it’s only fair that I acknowledge his strong asset management in this instance.

74b7cedc5d8bfbe88cf071309e98d2c3
Jonathan Willis is a freelance writer. He currently works for Oilers Nation, the Edmonton Journal and Bleacher Report. He's co-written three books and worked for myriad websites, including Grantland, ESPN, The Score, and Hockey Prospectus. He was previously the founder and managing editor of Copper & Blue.
Avatar
#1 Archaeologuy
July 20 2011, 12:12PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
10
props

@VanFan1

Remember that time your team won the president's trophy and raised the banner before the season ended? Remember when they then lost in the finals because your albatross goalie cant hack the pressure? Remember?

I do.

Avatar
#2 Oilers are great
July 19 2011, 11:46PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
9
props

Not today guys.

Avatar
#3 Six Rings
July 20 2011, 12:32PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
8
props

@VanFan1

Haha silly Vancouver fan, cups aren't for nuckz.

Avatar
#4 John Chambers
July 20 2011, 12:52PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
7
props

@VanFan1

My cousins live on the island and are huge Canuck fans. They were pretty excited in September that this was the year. I agreed. Everything was aligning for this to be Vancouver's year.

A lot of your guys had career years. Luongo was Vezina calibre during the regular season, you have an Art Ross trophy, and everything seemed to roll along favourably for you.

But you guys chocked. Hard. As hard as anyone has choked in the post-lockout NHL. Next year and beyond, most of your guys won't have career years like they just did. It's unlikely that you'll have as easy a time walking through Chicago and San Jose next year, not to mention dealing with the up-and-coming LA.

I think your opportunity came and passed. In a couple of years we'll have our shot. But enjoy your President's trophy and Western Conference Championship because it's all you've got to show for it.*

*Not to mention piles of shattered glass and fans of legendary ill-repute.

Avatar
#5 Archaeologuy
July 20 2011, 12:44PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
6
props

@VanFan1

And you Hope that you can clean the streets of all the debris and scorch marks every time you lose a playoff round.

Best 3 Forwards in the league? I must have missed the Trade that sent Crosby and Ovechkin to BC

Avatar
#6 John Chambers
July 20 2011, 01:25PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
6
props

Oooohhhh. Contest!

A free sleeve of golf balls and a replica Smytty mullet for whoever comes up with the best VanFan1 burn.

Here I go:

Hey VanFan1, are all Canuck fans asexual eunuchs like the Green Guys, or do you pitch a tent when you have sweet dreams about the Sedin Sisters?

Snap!

Avatar
#7 offside
July 20 2011, 01:29PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
6
props

@VanFan1

I saw the Canucks movie was on TV the other night - 40 Year Old Virgin

Avatar
#8 Chris.
July 20 2011, 03:41PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
6
props

Guys, VanFan1 has probably never been to Edmonton... So his observations about our city are about as relevent as the last 40 years of Canuck hockey.

Avatar
#9 Reggie
July 20 2011, 01:16PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
5
props
VanFan1 wrote:

Ya we had debris and scorch marks after the riot... but your city looks like Beirut, Lebanon compared to Vancouver. And your hockey team is Midget AA compared to ours.. Truth hurts doesn't it?

And this is why 75% of Canadians were cheering for the Bruins in the SCF.

Nothing made me happier than seeing the Bruins hoist the cup in your home rink.

Avatar
#10 @Oilanderp
July 20 2011, 01:25PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
5
props

@VanFan1

Someone is just a tad angry that their Canucks jersey didn't sell on ebay last month. That's a few hundred smackaroons down the drain eh?

Hold onto it, right now the market is flooded!

Avatar
#11 John Chambers
July 20 2011, 01:42PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
5
props

They're more of a soccer city, really. Hence all the diving and long greasy haircuts.

Avatar
#12 Oilcruzer
July 20 2011, 03:02PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
5
props
VanFan1 wrote:

Ya non-affordable to people from Edmonton. Ya there is traffic, because many people want to move here, so ya traffic will occur and there's things to do here... on that note...how is your mall?? still around? I thought they would have torn it down to build another dingy factory. People flock to Vancouver cuz we da best!

Maybe I wasn't clear. I live in Greater Van now - and have so for a year. After 6 months it gets old... actually it sucks.

Avg 70% of peoples earnings go to owning a home?

HST vs 5% taxes?

Pay for Health Care?

Higher food costs?

Wait in line for everything (including traffic.)

You ignore the crap weather comment?

Your team is 0 for 41.

A city of egos and "what's in it for me"?

(I'll stop now... but I could go on... if you want me to)

Avatar
#13 Van Fan 2012
July 20 2011, 04:20PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
5
props

Ya!! Canucks are the best! We have the best players in the league! Luongo is better than Crosby and Ovechkin put together. Woooooo!!

*I swear, this is not Wäx Män Riley

Avatar
#14 Archaeologuy
July 20 2011, 01:15PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
4
props

@VanFan1

Not really. This team really has been terrible for years. If that hurts anybody's feeling then they really have drank too much Kool-Aid.

At least you have that Western Conference Championship banner to look at. Come to think of it, we got ourselves one of those not too long ago either. The only difference is that nobody HERE thinks that's an accomplishment worth celebrating.

Avatar
#15 Quicksilver ballet
July 20 2011, 01:17PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
4
props

@VanFan1

Sorry to interupt your discussion VanFan.

I was interested in those 4 Louis Vuitton handbags you had for sale on Kijiji, by any chance are they still available?

Avatar
#16 @Oilanderp
July 20 2011, 01:34PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
4
props

Smythies return has yet another undiscovered beneficial use: Holding up his number to a Canuck fan acts like a crucifix to a vampire. '94, the other year where the Canucks choked in game 7!

EDIT: .....SNAP!

Avatar
#17 Oilcruzer
July 20 2011, 01:36PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
4
props
VanFan1 wrote:

YOU RESIDE IN EDMONTON!!!

SNAP!

I WIN!

What u win? I see non-affordable housing. I see traffic hell. I see rain and plus 14 instead of a thing called summer. I see high insurance costs. I see high taxes.

Some win.

Avatar
#18 David S
July 20 2011, 02:25AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
3
props

If you're judging the worth (or lack of) this contract based on past performance, should you not also be taking into account the linemates Cogliano has had the past two years?

I bet you'd find Wheeler and Frolik had far superior support than Cogliano. And I'd also bet his new employers are thinking the same thing too.

The problem with the Oilers is that for whatever reason, they've decided it's OK to break in a half dozen prospects and junior players at once. Cogliano developed properly would have been teamed with actual decent NHL'ers. Here he was given scrubs and rejects more often than not, which I'll wager hindered his development by killing his confidence.

The Ducks are making the bet that Cogliano with a new lease on his career and supported by a team philosophy that actually has winning as its primary objective will turn into the guy he was supposed to be here.

Avatar
#19 Hemmertime
July 20 2011, 08:21AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
3
props
Oilers are great wrote:

Not today guys.

If simple "fist" gets edited, something like this should be too. Make a statement, with the word fist or not, either way.

Avatar
#20 Quicksilver ballet
July 20 2011, 10:24AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
3
props

~One down, one to go. If the Oil could move that defensive liability they have in #89, watch Khabibulins save % get back to that .930 area he's accustomed to being in~

Avatar
#21 Archaeologuy
July 20 2011, 01:19PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
3
props

@Greg Stink | ESPN

Nope. All's fair. If anything, I shouldnt be feeding the troll, but it's of Anthropological interest to study the hurt outlashings of a perennially disappointed Canuck Fan in the middle of July.

Avatar
#22 Oilcruzer
July 20 2011, 01:31PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
3
props
Archaeologuy wrote:

Not really. This team really has been terrible for years. If that hurts anybody's feeling then they really have drank too much Kool-Aid.

At least you have that Western Conference Championship banner to look at. Come to think of it, we got ourselves one of those not too long ago either. The only difference is that nobody HERE thinks that's an accomplishment worth celebrating.

Or rioting over.

---

I've lived here a year now. The (my) predictions held true about Van.

Playoffs. "When the going gets tough, the Sedins dive, turtle, and whine."

Playoffs wean out officials in training. The quality officials will punish hockey teams that try to cheat dive. I.E. Don't embarrass an official, in any sport. Not only won't you get the dive, you won't get a legit call either.

Holy cow, did VanFan1 really say his team has one, (let alone three) players who are better than Datsyuk, or Crosby, or Ovy, or Lidstrom, or Thomas?

Avatar
#23 9 Inches Uncut
July 20 2011, 01:59PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
3
props

Hope Canuck fans enjoyed the confetti shower in the west final because that's as close to a celebration as they're gonna get.

That was the year for the Canucks. It's downhill from here on in.

Avatar
#24 justDOit
July 20 2011, 12:23AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
2
props
Jonathan Willis wrote:

@ justDOit:

But would you pay more for the abilities of Wheeler, Frolik or Cogliano, given that all are young complementary forwards and all paid roughly the same?

They aren't the same kind of player, but they play remarkably similar minutes and I'd much rather send out the first two than Cogliano.

If I had to overpay two of those 3 players, I'd pick Wheeler and Frokik, but I'm not entirely sure what the point/question was - I'm giddishly tired right now, and I'm questioning why the heII I'm still up.

You would rather send Wheeler and Frolik onto Rexall ice? Me too!

We have a lot in common.

Avatar
#25 FirstPriority
July 20 2011, 02:11AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
2
props

He went to Anaheim not LA... get some sleep champ.

Avatar
#26 Al Davis
July 20 2011, 02:33AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
2
props

Totally agree with Lowetide. If Tambo did this deal it would be a Monty Python Witch Burning within 5 minutes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrzMhU_4m-g

This contract is more of the Ducks rewarding Cogliano for the player they hope he becomes, not the player he is today. As for the Oilers, we have done enough of this in the past. Probably turns out to be a good decision for both the Oilers and the Ducks.

Avatar
#27 Mike Modano's Dog
July 20 2011, 09:38AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
2
props

Wonderful move by Tambo in my opinion...

The move had to be made with one of our forwards, and based on the price Cogs was asking for, and the term, this move makes sense. The term would have brought his bloated salary (at this point) into the year when he need to re-up our young stars. That could have caused potential problems, and given the choices I would way rather save room for them instead of an underwhelming former top pick. Not bashing Cogs, but he didn't turn into a world-beater as a 1st round pick. Instead of calling him Marchant 'with hands' as he was originally cast, we were left to hoping he 'turned into' a Marchant-type.

I do wish Cogs all the best with his new team; hopefully he can cover Anaheim's bet. Personally, I'm glad we kept Gilbert Brule instead. I think he has bigger upside, hits a ton, and if he does get healthy one day we've got ourselves a real solid player there... and a complete player, at that!

(As a side note it's interesting to see the kid line from four years ago and how they have fared now...I was hoping for big things from the young Nilsson, as I had grown up cheering for his dad back in the day!)

Avatar
#29 Smokey
July 20 2011, 11:53AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
2
props

dawgbone, where was he going to play. What wing was he going to play on. He was a 3rd/ 4rth liner on the worst hockey team in the league. The Oilers were not going to pay him more then 1.5-1.8 per, which Tambo would of got roasted for if had he signed him for anywhere close to what an arbitrator was going to award him. They knew the marketplace and that in arbitration he would be awarded anywhere from 1.8-2.5 and they said lets get what we can, we got more complete players then Cogliano on the roster and waiting in the wings.

He`s terrible on the PP, because hes a player who scores on the rush, bad on PK because he can`t win draws. He`s a excellent even strength hockey player where most of his points are scored. The Oilers gave him 2 plus years to develop into a 3rd liner and at the end he plateau`d. The Oilers knew what Cogliano would bring the team They also know they can`t win with too many diminutive forwards, so they turned the page and they are a better hockey now.

The Oilers got Belanger to replace him, who is a better overall hockey player, and fills the Malholtra void, plus they got a second round pick. I call that good asset management, and we did not have to pay a guy 2.4 mil to loose faceoffs all year, and be our 10-12th forward.

Avatar
#30 Quicksilver ballet
July 20 2011, 01:43PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
2
props
offside wrote:

I saw the Canucks movie was on TV the other night - 40 Year Old Virgin

....but the plaintiff claims to have nailed my mom. I'm so confused, i just don't know who to believe anymore.

[Places Dan Hill, Sometimes when we Touch back in the 8 track player]

Avatar
#31 BURROWSHASCRABS
July 20 2011, 01:43PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
2
props

@ VANFAN

You lost the cup again!! WE WIN!!

Avatar
#32 Ender
July 20 2011, 06:25PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
2
props
Dman09 wrote:

CHI walked away from Campoli, he is now a free agent. Anyone think the Oil should go after him?

I'm usually pretty good with the CBA, but I admit that this has me stumped so I'm asking all the smart people out there to help me with this one.

My understanding of the Arbitration process for RFA's goes something like this:

General Manager: You want how much? You're dreaming. Guess again. Lower.

Player: I'm worth every penny and more. See you in arbitration.

Arbitrator: This player is worth the value of pi multiplied by the surface area of the ocean on a windy night. If you need a second calculation we can factor in his shot totals and the number of albums Janis Joplin sold in 1968.

General Manager: You're all crazy. If I want this kind of abuse, I can go home to my wife. Have fun in free agency, Kid. Get your locker cleaned out by 5:00 today and don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out.

Player: So, I'm worth that much, huh? OK, I'll just wait for the phone to ring now . . . . . I'm sure it won't take long . . . . . yep . . . . . . any time now . . . . . . anybody?

The thing is, I don't see why the 'Hawks would agree to pay Campoli $2.5M for nothing. Why can't they just let the arbitrator assign a value and then walk away from it?

Avatar
#34 @Oilanderp
July 20 2011, 12:17AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
1
props

wHEW.........nice Tambi.....got away with 1 there..... P.S. love u Cogs but u aren't worth that much gl

Avatar
#35 MrEdge
July 20 2011, 07:43AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
1
props

@knobby

Hmmmm You should be embarrassed Knobby. At least get the facts (and team!) straight before you go on a rant...

Avatar
#37 dawgbone
July 20 2011, 09:16AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
1
props

I don't agree with the premise that this was smart asset management.

I don't think a 2nd round pick holds a lot of value and that giving up an NHL player to acquire a pick, that doesn't represent a very good chance at replacing that player, is good asset management.

For all of Cogliano's flaws, he was developing into a pretty good penalty killer. Also, I'd have rather seen him spend a full season on the wing to see how he adjusts to it.

The Oilers have developed a history of replacing NHL players with dreams of rainbows, and very rarely have these trades resulted in something positive for the Oilers after the fact.

It's one thing to trade a player because you have someone younger, cheaper, and better/comparable, but it's something else to just trade them because of a perceived lack of space.

Ken Belanger didn't take a spot away from Cogs, there was still a spot on the wing for him and he was still one of the 12 best players on the team.

I would have liked this trade better if they could have acquired a vet defenceman (even an overpriced one), rather than a pick that doesn't have a great track record at producing NHL players.

Avatar
#38 John Chambers
July 20 2011, 09:24AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
1
props

@dawgbone

I kind of agree with you. We spent four years turning him into the pro that he is just to flip him for another question mark that we'll have to develop.

But that's the reality of the CBA. You get 6 or 7 years to determine whether you want to retain a player for big bucks, or you can cash out early for another spin of the wheel.

I think Asset Management the right term here. Cogs could've been signed to a 2-year deal, played 4th line minutes, and walked as a UFA in 2013. Instead ST acknowledged that there wasn't a place for him given our plethora of wingers who slot ahead of him, and cashed him out.

Avatar
#39 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
July 20 2011, 09:35AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
1
props
John Chambers wrote:

I kind of agree with you. We spent four years turning him into the pro that he is just to flip him for another question mark that we'll have to develop.

But that's the reality of the CBA. You get 6 or 7 years to determine whether you want to retain a player for big bucks, or you can cash out early for another spin of the wheel.

I think Asset Management the right term here. Cogs could've been signed to a 2-year deal, played 4th line minutes, and walked as a UFA in 2013. Instead ST acknowledged that there wasn't a place for him given our plethora of wingers who slot ahead of him, and cashed him out.

It also isn't very hard to pick up "Cogliano's" for nothing on the FA market.

We just picked up a superior Cogs for nothing (asset wise) and traded our inferior Cogliano for a decent asset.

Avatar
#40 TigerUnderGlass
July 20 2011, 10:42AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
1
props
grip it and rip it wrote:

Maybe if Khabby got his save % up then Gags defensive % will rise. You can't blame poor goaltending on the forwards all the time!

Sarcasm detection fail.

Avatar
#41 dawgbone
July 20 2011, 12:00PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
1
props
Jonathan Willis wrote:

@ dawgbone:

Yes, but how easily replaceable is Cogliano via free agency?

A number of second-tier free agents would all be top-12 forwards in Edmonton - guys like Grier, Zherdev, Clark, Madden, Sutherby, etc.

If you can replace Cogliano through free agency, and then add a second round pick by trading Cogliano, does it matter that only one in four second round picks turn into useful NHL players?

100%... they just have to do it.

Until then, this reminds me of when they traded Grier for picks without replacing him, then trading Chimera for picks without replacing him, then trading Brodziak for picks without replacing him.

By all means if they acquire a guy who bumps another guy (and they trade him), that's fine and it's exactly what I'd want my team to do.

I just don't agree with what this team has been doing for years though... replacing useful NHL players with picks and/or worse players.

Avatar
#42 dawgbone
July 20 2011, 12:11PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
1
props
Smokey wrote:

dawgbone, where was he going to play. What wing was he going to play on. He was a 3rd/ 4rth liner on the worst hockey team in the league. The Oilers were not going to pay him more then 1.5-1.8 per, which Tambo would of got roasted for if had he signed him for anywhere close to what an arbitrator was going to award him. They knew the marketplace and that in arbitration he would be awarded anywhere from 1.8-2.5 and they said lets get what we can, we got more complete players then Cogliano on the roster and waiting in the wings.

He`s terrible on the PP, because hes a player who scores on the rush, bad on PK because he can`t win draws. He`s a excellent even strength hockey player where most of his points are scored. The Oilers gave him 2 plus years to develop into a 3rd liner and at the end he plateau`d. The Oilers knew what Cogliano would bring the team They also know they can`t win with too many diminutive forwards, so they turned the page and they are a better hockey now.

The Oilers got Belanger to replace him, who is a better overall hockey player, and fills the Malholtra void, plus they got a second round pick. I call that good asset management, and we did not have to pay a guy 2.4 mil to loose faceoffs all year, and be our 10-12th forward.

Left Wingers who are better than Cogliano: Smyth, Hall

Right Wingers who are better than Cogliano: Hemsky, Eberle

You can add Paajarvi and Omark to that group as well, though with Paajarvi that's more to do with potential than actually being a better player.

He's actually been one of the Oilers best players on the PK, despite his inability to win a draw (which he wouldn't have to take because he wouldn't be a centre any longer). And if he's an excellent even strength player (like you suggested), that's the exact reason why you keep him. Guys who can play at ES and kill penalties still hold a lot of value.

Yes, the Oilers brought in Belanger... but they've needed a Belanger since the idiotic Brodziak trade. They've needed another centre for years. That doesn't mean you add that centre and dump other players.

And this contract issue would have been avoided if they were smart enough to trade Brule last year instead of signing him to a ridiculous contract. I'd rather have Cogs at 1.8-2.0 than Brule.

Avatar
#44 Greg Stink | ESPN
July 20 2011, 12:59PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
1
props
Hemmertime wrote:

If simple "fist" gets edited, something like this should be too. Make a statement, with the word fist or not, either way.

It bothers you that he denied the chance to FIST and did not 'make a statement' himself.

He wins.

Avatar
#45 dawgbone
July 20 2011, 01:07PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
1
props
Dman09 wrote:

I don't think you can make an assessment of any of these guys except Eager and Hordi. I think Eager and Cogs are such different players, you can't really compare them. For the role eager serves he is pretty damn good and cogs couldn't come close but you can also reverse that. And lets face it Hordi is an enforcer and Cogs isn't. Completely different purpose on the team. The other three however we haven't see play an entire season yet so we don't really have any comparision yet. I think all three have a chance at being better but only time will tell.

I think you certainly can make a pretty accyrat assessment of all of them, with maybe Lander being the one unique player.

CVV is the same age as Cogliano and is well behind him developmentally speaking. Cogs was doing the samething as an NCAA freshman as CVV was doing as a Senior. CVV struggled at the AHL level for most of the year last year.

Hartikainen is a decent prospect, but I think even his biggest fans will admit he's still another couple of years from being an NHL regular.

Lander is a bit of a wild card in that he's still pretty young and has played in a pretty good league the past few years, but using Paajarvi as a high benchmark that puts him behind Cogliano sitll.

I'm also not talking about the role of a player on the team (because personally speaking, the role Hordichuk fills is a useless one), but actually ability to play hockey.

If the 6 players you have on the ice are better players than the 6 the other team have you are going to come out ahead. Just get as many good players as you can afford throughout your lineup and you'll be a good team.

Avatar
#46 Quicksilver ballet
July 20 2011, 02:00PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
1
props
VanFan1 wrote:

Bunch of blue collar bums!... The lot of ya

We aim to please.

Hope you enjoyed your stay now.

Avatar
#47 dawgbone
July 20 2011, 03:15PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
1
props
Dman09 wrote:

Wouldn't matter the gagners can't play good defensive hockey even if you have Bulin in net for both i would still bet money on 5 bruins. Also part of thomas's success in net was the bruins defensive play. They blocked a lot of shots, cleared the shooting lanes for thomas, kept a lot to the outside and limited the allowed shots from in close. Thomas even said it him self the team did a good job of making sure he could see the puck to make the stops and clearing rebounds.

Faceoffs is a small thing that can be very important. Winning faceoffs increases your puck possession time, the more time you have with the puck the more likely you are to have shots on goal and/or clear the zone to limit shots for the other team. Its all the little things together that make a winning team

I'd take a trio of Gagners over Thornton - Campbell - Paille every day of the week. In fact that's the type of matchups a coach who is trying to win a game would look for with a trio of young players.

Yes, part of Thomas's success was that the Bruins played well in front of him, but he put up a .967 sv% in the finals, which is pretty remarkable. In terms of "dangerous" shots (shots from the prime scoring area), the Bruins won the battle 109-104 over the course of the 7 game series. That's not much of an advantage and doesn't separate these teams nearly as much as the respective goaltenders save % does.

Face-offs have their place, but the fact of the matter is they have very little outcome on the game. 7 of the top 16 face-off teams didn't make the playoffs last year, so the correlation between face-offs and winning is marginal at best. Now, that being said if there was an in-zone face-off with 5 seconds left in a 1 goal game, you'd want your best guy taking it... but that's situation specific and doesn't take into account the rest of the game.

Avatar
#48 dawgbone
July 20 2011, 03:18PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
1
props

So VanFan1, what you are saying is Vancouver can't hold a candle to Toronto.

Avatar
#49 Mantastic
July 20 2011, 03:34PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
1
props

@Dman09

3 bedroom, 80+ year old detached house in the middle of van will run you 700k+

Avatar
#50 Wäx Män Riley
July 20 2011, 04:09PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
+1
1
props

I love trolling with Van Fans!

Yes, it is a nice city, and yes they had a pretty good team this year. I also love their argument "your team sucks, Canucks are the best!"

40 years without a cup can make you cheer for anything I guess.

Where did he go though?

Comments are closed for this article.