HOLEY KHABBY!!!

Jason Gregor
September 21 2011 12:57AM

The fans at Rexall might have set a preseason record for the earliest BOOOOOOO of the season, when they voiced their displeasure after Nikolai Khabibulin allowed a 3rd goal only 18:35 into the first period. Khabibulin allowed three goals on seven shots, and while you can't blame him on the first one, we've seen this horror movie before.

He needs to stop the puck.

You could point to a rookie pinch by Martin Marincin that gave the Wild a 2-on-1 that Pierre-Marc Bouchard roofed upstairs for the 3rd goal, but Khabibulin was way too deep in his crease on the shot. There are no excuses for how he played. His only saving grace was that it was a preseason game.

He looked rusty, but unlike previous years I'm not certain he will get the chance to play his way into tip-top shape. Devan Dubnyk is right behind, or right beside, him on the depth chart, and Tom Renney doesn't have the luxury of allowing the Bulin Wall to get his game together brick-by-brick. Khabibulin needs to have his foundation in place during his next two preseason performances or he won't, or shouldn't, be starting on October 9th against the Penguins.

Khabibulin had the worst SV% of any starting goalie last year; an embarrassing .890% to go along with a pathetic 3.40 GAA. His SV% was even worse than Brian Elliott, Dan Ellis and Peter Budaj. Brian freaking Elliott was better than him.

Dubnyk played behind the same porous defense and inexperienced forwards, yet he managed a respectable .916 SV% and 2.71 GAA. Last night junior goalie, Tyler Bunz, relieved Khabibulin halfway through the second frame and stopped the first ten shots he faced. He stopped 10 of 11 and looked much more comfortable than Khabibulin.

You can say it was only a preseason game, but at what point does Renney stop waiting for Khabibulin to find his game. Maybe he can't find it? Maybe he doesn't have it anymore? 

It sounds like Yann Danis and David LeNeveu will split the game on Thursday, so that leaves five more preseason tilts. Will the Oilers give Khabibulin three full starts and Dubnyk two? Dubnyk said he was hoping to start one game this coming weekend and then one next weekend, but if he is playing better maybe he gets the extra start?

I've always said you can't take too much out of the first preseason game, but normally I'm talking about some young rookie who scored two goals and people think he's ready for the Show. In Khabibulin's case, we've all seen two years of sub-par hockey from him, and last night's effort only increased the doubt in the mind of Oiler fans.

I wonder if that same doubt is creeping into the psyche of the coaching staff?

SWEDES SHINE 

While Magnus Paajarvi, Anton Lander and Linus Omark didn't look this good last night, the "Tre Kroner Konnection" had a great first game together. They combined for two goals, three assists, ten shots, three hits, three takeaways and they averaged 19:15 of icetime. They all looked dangerous at different times, and I'm sure Renney would like to give them another chance to play together very soon.

Paajarvi and Lander were clearly the best of the three, and what I liked most about Lander was his post-game reaction. He was legitimately annoyed that they lost. He hates losing and he couldn't hide it. It's nice to see a guy who cares that much. Paajarvi told me that Lander hates losing more than anyone he's ever played with, and that's the exact type of attitude the Oilers need.

I still think Lander will start the season in the AHL, but if he play like this when the opposition ices a veteran team then he might force Renney to make a tough decision.

I also like Antti Tyrvainen's game. He only played 8:54, but I noticed him often. He showed a nice touch on his goal and he isn't afraid to go in the corners. He's another guy who needs to keep getting noticed as the games become more competitive, but so far so good.

I thought Kirill Tulupov played okay, considering his young D partner, Martin Marincin, really struggled early. Tulupov might earn himself a two-way contract in the next few weeks. Marincin is not strong enough to play in the AHL this year. He didn't gain enough strength this off-season, and I won't be surprised if the Oiler elect to have him train in Edmonton rather than back home in the Czech next summer. I don't think he was able to train enough, or get the proper guidance necessary to gain muscle and strength properly.

Sending Marincin back to junior means his contract won't count towards the 50 contract cap, and that could open up a spot for Tulupov.

SASKATOON

The feed for the Oilers/Hawks game kept buffering every three seconds so I wasn't able to watch it, but I got some reports from guys there and Ryan Nugent-Hopkins looked more than comfortable in his first preseason game. He assisted on Ryan Smyth's opening goal, missed an open net and generated quite a few chances. One person within the organization gave him a B+ ranking.

Smyth played like it was 2007 and mixed in a few saucer passes for fun. He told me at the morning skate he hadn't been this excited for a preseason game in a decade, and, despite his age, he wants to show Renney he can still be a go-to guy.

Josh Green potted a pair of goals, and while he's destined to start the season in OKC, more for his leadership than anything, he clearly doesn't want to get sent down without a fight. I'm guessing we see Green re-called as an injury replacement at some point during the season. He could fill a void for five to ten games.

QUICK HITS

  • The Oilers will keep at least 15 D-men until Saturday, unless Renney wants to play a guy in three straight games. Ryan Whitney, Colten Teubert and Andy Sutton are in camp, but none are likely to play until Sunday at the earliest. There will be some cuts tomorrow, because they only have two ice slots scheduled. They won't cram 27 or 28 guys into each session.
     
  • I thought Bunz looked solid once again, and if he goes back to Medicine Hat and doesn't have a slow start I'm certain he'll suit up for Canada at the WJC in Edmonton/Calgary this Christmas.
     
  • Hopefully on Saturday night the Internet feed for the Oilers/Flames game won't be as inconsistent as it was last night. You can watch Thursday's game on TSN and Sunday's game in Calgary on Sportsnet.
     
  • Which players did you like last night? Who didn't you like?  
Ddf3e2ba09069c465299f3c416e43eae
One of Canada's most versatile sports personalities. Jason hosts The Jason Gregor Show, weekdays from 2 to 6 p.m., on TSN 1260, and he writes a column every Monday in the Edmonton Journal. You can follow him on Twitter at twitter.com/JasonGregor
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#201 gord962
September 21 2011, 04:21PM
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gag me wrote:

Hey Ned,

Is it weird that out of the past 4 seasons our best season came with 2 rookie centers?

I don't think I am anywhere near proving your point OBI. You want a player who does NOT know how to play center at ALL as our top line center.

I want horcoff as out top center, and rnh as our number 2. Lander's role is 3rd line center and he plays it perfectly. What is gagner's role? Does he play that role perfectly? Oh wait... He did score 42 points... He was also a team worst -17

Belanger would play #3 and Lander/Brule would be 4th line with ability to move up if called upon.

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#202 Archaeologuy
September 21 2011, 04:21PM
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I think I am partially responsible for this train wreck and I would like to apologize for any injury you have sustained after the excessive facepalming that you are no doubt experiencing.

It was never my intention to feed the Mogwai after midnight, nor to get it wet. Yet, here we stand.

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#203 FastOil
September 21 2011, 04:25PM
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@gag me

It's not that Gagner's bad, it's just that he's not good.

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#204 gag me
September 21 2011, 04:25PM
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Oh Arch,

You're always the one right in the middle of the Gagner debate.

You were also a huge supporter for Seguin if I recall. You were often the center of that crap as well.

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#205 David S
September 21 2011, 04:28PM
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Who is this NHL'er called "Lander" everybody is slotting in as an automatic to replace Gagner anyways? I Googled "NHL" and "Lander" and all I come up with is stuff like "prospect" or "rookie" or "entry-level contract".

Could somebody help out and show me where he played in the NHL before Edmonton? From the sounds of things he must have been with some hot team like Boston or Montreal or Washington. Just curious.

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#206 gag me
September 21 2011, 04:30PM
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David,

Nope... He's just a hockey player who knows how to play center. Nothing more...

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#207 pelhem grenville
September 21 2011, 04:31PM
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AND...this Holey Khabby titled thread lasted all of 40 or 50 comments and the Gagner's worse than the whole world debate started...

Gagner didn't even play last nite

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#208 Ned Braden
September 21 2011, 04:32PM
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@Archaeologuy

The funny thing is I am not even a Gagner fan but moving him at this point does not make sense to me.

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#209 gord962
September 21 2011, 04:35PM
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David S wrote:

Who is this NHL'er called "Lander" everybody is slotting in as an automatic to replace Gagner anyways? I Googled "NHL" and "Lander" and all I come up with is stuff like "prospect" or "rookie" or "entry-level contract".

Could somebody help out and show me where he played in the NHL before Edmonton? From the sounds of things he must have been with some hot team like Boston or Montreal or Washington. Just curious.

No one is slotting Lander to be #2. At best the discussion has been Lander at 3, realistically at 4, IMO. RNH is an automatic replacement for Gagner this year if Oilers mgmt decides to keep the kid around for the full season. No way RNH is kept to play the 4th line. Belanger has #3 locked from what I can tell and Horc has 1 or 2 locked. If they keep RNH they will put Horc as #1, RNH as #2. Gagner can't play 4th line C so there is no room for him. Get as much value out of Gagner now before we bury him on the depth chart and get nothing for him.

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#210 eklund
September 21 2011, 04:38PM
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I know everything about hockey.

Listen to me...

Gagner will play goalie after khabbi goes to jail for a second DUI

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#211 Walter Sobchak
September 21 2011, 04:40PM
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Archaeologuy wrote:

I fear you are correct, but I made the call a long time ago for Omark to be my goat this season. I cant back away now.

Things I like about Omark: He has determination and creativity with the puck like few Oilers have had in recent years

Things I dont like: Scores goals at a pace of 1 every 10 games played. Not enough finish. Very over-hyped for a guy who is unquestionably the 3rd best RW on the team.

If he has a good season it will be hard for me to keep up the ire, but it will be my duty to try.

Fair enough.

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#212 Ned Braden
September 21 2011, 04:41PM
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@gord962

If Gagner can't make the worst team in the NHL how much trade value does he have?

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#213 gag me
September 21 2011, 04:43PM
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Hahaha. Thank-you, Ned.

I haven't laughed out load from a genuine comment in quite a while. So funny but very true.

@eklund - uhhhh... Ok

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#214 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
September 21 2011, 04:51PM
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gag me wrote:

I suppose I would rather than a center who is defensively more responsible than one who is "our highest scoring center".

To each their own I guess. However I don't think it's a conincidence that 1C's and 2C's typically make far more then 3C's and 4C's.

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#215 Chris.
September 21 2011, 04:52PM
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Q- Why didn't Penner play center for the Oilers? He had size, hands, defensive awarness, and was okay in the faceoff circle...

A- Penner is just a little too slow.

Gagner is a good young player who has played his best NHL hockey on the wing. IMO, like Penner, Gagner simply isn't fast enough to be a solid top six option at center. Does anyone remember the kid line of 2007? Gagner scored a career best 49 points as an 18 year old playing off the right side... Remember how Cogliano had three straight overtime goals? Remember how they just missed the playoffs and the kid line came to camp after a great offseason of training and maturation and MacT said the Oilers were going to challenge for the division..?.. Well, with just one shot, about 12 games into that season, MacT torpedoed both Cogliano AND Gagner when he inexplicably moved Sam to the middle (where he has struggled somewhat ever since). MacT has since been fired and Cogliano traded. With so many better options available down the middle: I'll be stunned if Renny continues with this failed experiment. Let the kid focus on his down low cycle and sick cross crease passes... leading the rush and covering back is just not his forte.

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#216 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
September 21 2011, 04:53PM
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gag me wrote:

Hey Ned,

Is it weird that out of the past 4 seasons our best season came with 2 rookie centers?

I don't think I am anywhere near proving your point OBI. You want a player who does NOT know how to play center at ALL as our top line center.

I want horcoff as out top center, and rnh as our number 2. Lander's role is 3rd line center and he plays it perfectly. What is gagner's role? Does he play that role perfectly? Oh wait... He did score 42 points... He was also a team worst -17

What I want is to have at least 6, maybe 9 PROVEN NHL'ers superior to Gagner before he's deemed expendable.

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#217 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
September 21 2011, 04:56PM
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I have a feeling that those that think Gagner is expendable because of Lander eh all are the same that were hooting and hollering to get rid of Stoll a few years ago because of Gagner and Cogliano.

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#218 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
September 21 2011, 04:58PM
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Chris. wrote:

Q- Why didn't Penner play center for the Oilers? He had size, hands, defensive awarness, and was okay in the faceoff circle...

A- Penner is just a little too slow.

Gagner is a good young player who has played his best NHL hockey on the wing. IMO, like Penner, Gagner simply isn't fast enough to be a solid top six option at center. Does anyone remember the kid line of 2007? Gagner scored a career best 49 points as an 18 year old playing off the right side... Remember how Cogliano had three straight overtime goals? Remember how they just missed the playoffs and the kid line came to camp after a great offseason of training and maturation and MacT said the Oilers were going to challenge for the division..?.. Well, with just one shot, about 12 games into that season, MacT torpedoed both Cogliano AND Gagner when he inexplicably moved Sam to the middle (where he has struggled somewhat ever since). MacT has since been fired and Cogliano traded. With so many better options available down the middle: I'll be stunned if Renny continues with this failed experiment. Let the kid focus on his down low cycle and sick cross crease passes... leading the rush and covering back is just not his forte.

Deffinitly agree with the above.

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#219 edmontoncritic - BRoadwAY
September 21 2011, 05:03PM
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Yes Id love to be the 219th comment on this post! Hockeys back "female dogs!"

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#220 cableguy - 2nd Tier Fan
September 21 2011, 05:07PM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

I'll believe it when I see it.

we need to rehash your whole robert nilsson love affair?

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#221 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
September 21 2011, 05:11PM
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cableguy - 2nd Tier Fan wrote:

we need to rehash your whole robert nilsson love affair?

That was long gone about half way through his 29 point season when it was clear he couldn't produce at an acceptable level.

Not sure what that has to do with not having faith that 2-3 teenagers that have yet to see regular season NHL competition can knock a guy off the roster scoring at a .63 clip though

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#222 Archaeologuy
September 21 2011, 05:16PM
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gag me wrote:

Oh Arch,

You're always the one right in the middle of the Gagner debate.

You were also a huge supporter for Seguin if I recall. You were often the center of that crap as well.

And all that guy did was win a Stanley Cup...

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#223 Mason Storm
September 21 2011, 05:24PM
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What we should really be worrying about here is, how are we going to avoid losing Josh Green to waivers. Also can we trade Sutton? How dare he be late for training camp to witness the birth of his first child. A second also, can we trade his child for Alexei Yashin? If we have Yashin, that ends all center debate.

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#224 FastOil
September 21 2011, 05:30PM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

I have a feeling that those that think Gagner is expendable because of Lander eh all are the same that were hooting and hollering to get rid of Stoll a few years ago because of Gagner and Cogliano.

That seems like the opposite situation to me. Those who disliked Stoll thought he couldn't produce enough, despite being a big, full game centre.

Gagner is being knocked for being a slow one dimensional player, who may not produce enough cover his drawbacks.

I think Chris. made a good point. Sadly for poor Sam (who basically likes most of all to score and perhaps doesn't pull his weight - playing street hockey we called that a goal suck, you know, hanging around the net waiting for a pass, not helping with defense enough), during the time he was supposed to be learning how to be a top NHL center, they loaded up on wing.

That was a satisfyingly long and overly complicated sentence. Thank You.

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#225 FastOil
September 21 2011, 05:44PM
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I haven't been a Gagner supporter, and I would move him in a heartbeat for a good skating NHL 2nd line centre with decent offense and a two way game, about the same age, if you could find one. Of the Kessler, Belanger, Horcoff type.

That being said, if in a bit Lander can play toughs and RNH second toughs, Gagner would likely smoke third liners, so who knows, it might work. He'll probably get brow beat by Renney into being better as the Golden Glow on him dims with age. Can only ride the youth hype for so long.

Three scoring lines perhaps. The 4th line will have to be decent I think for that to work.

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#226 Bryzarro World
September 21 2011, 05:44PM
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Archaeologuy wrote:

And all that guy did was win a Stanley Cup...

"He" did? Really? So he was a major part of that team throghout the playoffs? He put the team on his back and led them to victory?

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#227 Oilcruzer
September 21 2011, 05:44PM
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Jason Gregor wrote:

Ummmm...Marincin was playing v. Minnesota last night and he didn't look great. He struggled mightily in his own zone, which is expected for most young D-men...

I have no explanation other than confusion.

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#228 RexLibris
September 21 2011, 06:00PM
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Those guys at FN think they have something going when they get 162 comments on a game-day thread and then Gregor comes along and smashes them with a thread running almost 2 and a half centuries long! Is it safe to say we take our hockey, or at least our undersized second-line centres, seriously around here?

Oh, I guess I need to say something about Gagner to be included: Seems to me that moving Gagner now doesn't help the team. Yes there is a logjam down the middle, but it's not like what the Canucks had with Bieksa last year where they risked losing somebody on waivers because of it and cap issues. He's not terrible, but he's not going to turn into Patrick Sharp either. Give him time, he'll serve his purpose here and when Lander and Pitlick are ready (sorry, I don't think they are right now, maybe in a few months for Lander and another year for Pitlick) then move him hopefully for a decent return.

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#229 Saytalk
September 21 2011, 06:12PM
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I won't speak to Gagner's strengths and weaknesses because that's be discussed at length in our comments from this summer. However, I think there are plenty of us who agree that the best option is to package him in a trade for a top-4 defenceman.

If you think Gagner is a great center and/or that he has a lot of potential to improve, then great, maybe another GM agrees and we can get a solid d-man for him. If you think he's mediocre and/or that he's plateau'd, well then the package of other assets would have to be a bit richer to get that elusive top 4 d-man.

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#230 Quicksilver ballet
September 21 2011, 06:15PM
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Man this thread really took off. The passion is back baby!

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#231 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
September 21 2011, 06:21PM
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FastOil wrote:

That seems like the opposite situation to me. Those who disliked Stoll thought he couldn't produce enough, despite being a big, full game centre.

Gagner is being knocked for being a slow one dimensional player, who may not produce enough cover his drawbacks.

I think Chris. made a good point. Sadly for poor Sam (who basically likes most of all to score and perhaps doesn't pull his weight - playing street hockey we called that a goal suck, you know, hanging around the net waiting for a pass, not helping with defense enough), during the time he was supposed to be learning how to be a top NHL center, they loaded up on wing.

That was a satisfyingly long and overly complicated sentence. Thank You.

Different particulars, same concept.

Everyone figures the new guys are better the old guys.

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#232 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
September 21 2011, 06:23PM
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Quicksilver ballet wrote:

Man this thread really took off. The passion is back baby!

Ha-ha. Agreed.

As frustrating as the conversation is, it's nice to see everyone getting fired up again.

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#233 Mason Storm
September 21 2011, 06:29PM
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RexLibris wrote:

Those guys at FN think they have something going when they get 162 comments on a game-day thread and then Gregor comes along and smashes them with a thread running almost 2 and a half centuries long! Is it safe to say we take our hockey, or at least our undersized second-line centres, seriously around here?

Oh, I guess I need to say something about Gagner to be included: Seems to me that moving Gagner now doesn't help the team. Yes there is a logjam down the middle, but it's not like what the Canucks had with Bieksa last year where they risked losing somebody on waivers because of it and cap issues. He's not terrible, but he's not going to turn into Patrick Sharp either. Give him time, he'll serve his purpose here and when Lander and Pitlick are ready (sorry, I don't think they are right now, maybe in a few months for Lander and another year for Pitlick) then move him hopefully for a decent return.

That's because, like their team FN sucks the hind banana.

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#234 Quicksilver ballet
September 21 2011, 06:43PM
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Any truth to the rumour this is going to be the Oilers new pre game warm up music? Really hits home for most of us i think.

http://youtu.be/Kl1rRxG251s

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#235 Greg MC
September 21 2011, 06:53PM
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What to do with Khabi? Can't see him retiring and not getting paid. He is untradeable. Cap hit counts in the minors. So, KHL or LTIR? He gots to go.

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#236 Greg MC
September 21 2011, 06:53PM
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Sorry, the dreaded double post.

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#237 Quicksilver ballet
September 21 2011, 06:58PM
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Greg MC wrote:

Sorry, the dreaded double post.

Prepare to be impressed. There's little doubt Khabby will put up something dangerously close to a .920 sv pct this season. Be not afraid Greg.

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#238 cableguy - 2nd Tier Fan
September 21 2011, 07:07PM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

That was long gone about half way through his 29 point season when it was clear he couldn't produce at an acceptable level.

Not sure what that has to do with not having faith that 2-3 teenagers that have yet to see regular season NHL competition can knock a guy off the roster scoring at a .63 clip though

more go towards the dick measuring contest that has played itself out.

Sometimes, people get it wrong, and time will show it.

People can write Gagner off, thats fine. Maybe they see (or perceive they see) something to indicate that. Similar to, at one time, you saying robert nilsson was a sure fire 2nd liner in the NHL.

Gagner is putting up his numbers on a 30th place team. One could argue that even a sh1tty team has to score, so someone is going to get some points.

Mark it down, IF the oilers trade gagner and IF he lights it up somewhere else and IF the replacement rookie stinks then you, good sir, got 'er right.

gotta love the passion though, it has been far to long. Seeing 200+ posts in a thread a week into the preseason is awesome. God help us all if the oilers stink again this year. it will be bedlam on the 'nation boards. sadly i will probably always stick my nose in.. and probably start a few myself

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#239 Peterborough
September 21 2011, 07:13PM
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Okay on the Gagner issue: If and when he gets pushed out of the top two centre ice possitions we trade him. Untill that happens we keep him.

Anything other than that is pure silliness.

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#240 Greg MC
September 21 2011, 07:20PM
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Quicksilver ballet wrote:

Prepare to be impressed. There's little doubt Khabby will put up something dangerously close to a .920 sv pct this season. Be not afraid Greg.

I am just looking at his history and he isn't getting any younger. Hope you are right, but I can't see it.

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#241 Clyde Frog
September 21 2011, 07:30PM
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@cableguy - 2nd Tier Fan

You are kidding right? No one HAS to score on a 30th place team, the other team doesn't spot us points and let the coach decide who gets them...

Trade away your top point producers for giant plugs, that's the way all the other top cobtenders do it, right?

What a joke...

Gagner haters do understand where his production puts him with in the league last year?

He already is producing like a 2nd line centre at 21... You can cry about size, speed, etc... But not production. You can drool over everyone elses giant 2nd line centres that produce at the same clip, but there aren't as many as people seem to believe are out there.

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#242 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
September 21 2011, 08:16PM
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@ cableguy. If you've got to go back 4 years to find a miss on my track record, I'm pretty confident in my evaluation skills.

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#243 Oilers Craig
September 21 2011, 08:25PM
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I think Gagner was over rated in Junior from playing on a great team with great line mates. Maybe we should see what we can get for him... second round pick doesn't look to bad. It would suck though if we shipped him off one year to soon and be blossomed into a decent 2nd line forward. Tambi has some decisions to make and they aren't easy. I can see a stanley cup here in the next 5 years if he gets lucky at whatever decision he decides to make. Hopkins should he go back to junior? Sign Hemsky to an extension? Bury Khabbi in the minors? Send Lander to OKC?

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#244 Quicksilver ballet
September 21 2011, 08:58PM
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@Oilers Craig

Well thought out response Craig. I agree with everything you said, except for the last 4 moves you mentioned.

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#245 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
September 21 2011, 09:11PM
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Oilers Craig wrote:

I think Gagner was over rated in Junior from playing on a great team with great line mates. Maybe we should see what we can get for him... second round pick doesn't look to bad. It would suck though if we shipped him off one year to soon and be blossomed into a decent 2nd line forward. Tambi has some decisions to make and they aren't easy. I can see a stanley cup here in the next 5 years if he gets lucky at whatever decision he decides to make. Hopkins should he go back to junior? Sign Hemsky to an extension? Bury Khabbi in the minors? Send Lander to OKC?

Except he already is a decent 2nd line forward.

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#246 Clyde Frog
September 21 2011, 10:08PM
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OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

Except he already is a decent 2nd line forward.

And a 2nd round pick has a 1 in 100 chance of matching his current production levels...

But man do picks look sexy until you make them...

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#247 Wanyes bastard child
September 21 2011, 10:17PM
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Clyde Frog wrote:

And a 2nd round pick has a 1 in 100 chance of matching his current production levels...

But man do picks look sexy until you make them...

We got a second for Cogliano (I'm fairly confident of that, its late for me) I'm pretty sure Gagner rates higher than a second round pick eh.

Edit- Also this was more aimed at Oilers Craig

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#248 Clyde Frog
September 21 2011, 10:28PM
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@Wanyes bastard child

I am not going to rehash the numbers, but every year Gagner has been in the league he has advanced his production ranking in the NHL starting around 60ish(fringe 2nd line centre) to 46ish(producing right with all the others) and is only 21 years of age.

This idea that there are 20 plus centres producing 50+ points and standing 6"2'+ 2nd line centres that hit, defend and take all the important draws is just not true.

Teams don't draft them every year, we have kids whom if the stars align may produce at his level.. Or may end up like Patty O or Robert Neilson.

Trading real production for magic beans is fun and all, but it won't make our team better. His production levels RIGHT NOW earn him a shot at a top 6 centre on most teams in the league.

Edit - sorry you took a bullet as my reply, typing this stuff out on a phone is annoying!

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#249 Wanyes bastard child
September 21 2011, 10:42PM
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@Clyde Frog

Hey I'm with you brother, I'm in the camp of "lets wait and see what Gagner can do this year and wait for some options to push him out before trading him". Why? Because its the smart thing to do, I'm not going to go into the nitty gritty because it's already been covered.

What got me was the guy saying that a second rounder for Gagner was a good trade in his books... thats just crazy talk.

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#250 Wanyes bastard child
September 21 2011, 10:44PM
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No worries dude, it happens :P

Kinda like the dreaded double post ;)

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