HOLEY KHABBY!!!

Jason Gregor
September 21 2011 12:57AM

The fans at Rexall might have set a preseason record for the earliest BOOOOOOO of the season, when they voiced their displeasure after Nikolai Khabibulin allowed a 3rd goal only 18:35 into the first period. Khabibulin allowed three goals on seven shots, and while you can't blame him on the first one, we've seen this horror movie before.

He needs to stop the puck.

You could point to a rookie pinch by Martin Marincin that gave the Wild a 2-on-1 that Pierre-Marc Bouchard roofed upstairs for the 3rd goal, but Khabibulin was way too deep in his crease on the shot. There are no excuses for how he played. His only saving grace was that it was a preseason game.

He looked rusty, but unlike previous years I'm not certain he will get the chance to play his way into tip-top shape. Devan Dubnyk is right behind, or right beside, him on the depth chart, and Tom Renney doesn't have the luxury of allowing the Bulin Wall to get his game together brick-by-brick. Khabibulin needs to have his foundation in place during his next two preseason performances or he won't, or shouldn't, be starting on October 9th against the Penguins.

Khabibulin had the worst SV% of any starting goalie last year; an embarrassing .890% to go along with a pathetic 3.40 GAA. His SV% was even worse than Brian Elliott, Dan Ellis and Peter Budaj. Brian freaking Elliott was better than him.

Dubnyk played behind the same porous defense and inexperienced forwards, yet he managed a respectable .916 SV% and 2.71 GAA. Last night junior goalie, Tyler Bunz, relieved Khabibulin halfway through the second frame and stopped the first ten shots he faced. He stopped 10 of 11 and looked much more comfortable than Khabibulin.

You can say it was only a preseason game, but at what point does Renney stop waiting for Khabibulin to find his game. Maybe he can't find it? Maybe he doesn't have it anymore? 

It sounds like Yann Danis and David LeNeveu will split the game on Thursday, so that leaves five more preseason tilts. Will the Oilers give Khabibulin three full starts and Dubnyk two? Dubnyk said he was hoping to start one game this coming weekend and then one next weekend, but if he is playing better maybe he gets the extra start?

I've always said you can't take too much out of the first preseason game, but normally I'm talking about some young rookie who scored two goals and people think he's ready for the Show. In Khabibulin's case, we've all seen two years of sub-par hockey from him, and last night's effort only increased the doubt in the mind of Oiler fans.

I wonder if that same doubt is creeping into the psyche of the coaching staff?

SWEDES SHINE 

While Magnus Paajarvi, Anton Lander and Linus Omark didn't look this good last night, the "Tre Kroner Konnection" had a great first game together. They combined for two goals, three assists, ten shots, three hits, three takeaways and they averaged 19:15 of icetime. They all looked dangerous at different times, and I'm sure Renney would like to give them another chance to play together very soon.

Paajarvi and Lander were clearly the best of the three, and what I liked most about Lander was his post-game reaction. He was legitimately annoyed that they lost. He hates losing and he couldn't hide it. It's nice to see a guy who cares that much. Paajarvi told me that Lander hates losing more than anyone he's ever played with, and that's the exact type of attitude the Oilers need.

I still think Lander will start the season in the AHL, but if he play like this when the opposition ices a veteran team then he might force Renney to make a tough decision.

I also like Antti Tyrvainen's game. He only played 8:54, but I noticed him often. He showed a nice touch on his goal and he isn't afraid to go in the corners. He's another guy who needs to keep getting noticed as the games become more competitive, but so far so good.

I thought Kirill Tulupov played okay, considering his young D partner, Martin Marincin, really struggled early. Tulupov might earn himself a two-way contract in the next few weeks. Marincin is not strong enough to play in the AHL this year. He didn't gain enough strength this off-season, and I won't be surprised if the Oiler elect to have him train in Edmonton rather than back home in the Czech next summer. I don't think he was able to train enough, or get the proper guidance necessary to gain muscle and strength properly.

Sending Marincin back to junior means his contract won't count towards the 50 contract cap, and that could open up a spot for Tulupov.

SASKATOON

The feed for the Oilers/Hawks game kept buffering every three seconds so I wasn't able to watch it, but I got some reports from guys there and Ryan Nugent-Hopkins looked more than comfortable in his first preseason game. He assisted on Ryan Smyth's opening goal, missed an open net and generated quite a few chances. One person within the organization gave him a B+ ranking.

Smyth played like it was 2007 and mixed in a few saucer passes for fun. He told me at the morning skate he hadn't been this excited for a preseason game in a decade, and, despite his age, he wants to show Renney he can still be a go-to guy.

Josh Green potted a pair of goals, and while he's destined to start the season in OKC, more for his leadership than anything, he clearly doesn't want to get sent down without a fight. I'm guessing we see Green re-called as an injury replacement at some point during the season. He could fill a void for five to ten games.

QUICK HITS

  • The Oilers will keep at least 15 D-men until Saturday, unless Renney wants to play a guy in three straight games. Ryan Whitney, Colten Teubert and Andy Sutton are in camp, but none are likely to play until Sunday at the earliest. There will be some cuts tomorrow, because they only have two ice slots scheduled. They won't cram 27 or 28 guys into each session.
     
  • I thought Bunz looked solid once again, and if he goes back to Medicine Hat and doesn't have a slow start I'm certain he'll suit up for Canada at the WJC in Edmonton/Calgary this Christmas.
     
  • Hopefully on Saturday night the Internet feed for the Oilers/Flames game won't be as inconsistent as it was last night. You can watch Thursday's game on TSN and Sunday's game in Calgary on Sportsnet.
     
  • Which players did you like last night? Who didn't you like?  
Ddf3e2ba09069c465299f3c416e43eae
One of Canada's most versatile sports personalities. Jason hosts The Jason Gregor Show, weekdays from 2 to 6 p.m., on TSN 1260, and he writes a column every Monday in the Edmonton Journal. You can follow him on Twitter at twitter.com/JasonGregor
Avatar
#251 Reggie
September 21 2011, 10:52PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Gregor, Not sure if anyone commented, but your streaming problem was probably your home internet service. I streamed both games at home on different PC's and had no issues with either feed. I do have the premium internet service from Telus and it has better than average bandwidth capacity.

So, your issue is probably the bandwidth from your provider.

Avatar
#252 Oilers Craig
September 21 2011, 11:23PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

@Wanyes bastard child

I thought Cogs was more valuable then Gagner last year... I would rather have Cogs killing penalties then Gagners offence. Lander is a 2nd round pick... Gags has a lot of potential and I actually like the player but its time to pick it up.

Avatar
#253 David S
September 21 2011, 11:26PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Reggie wrote:

Gregor, Not sure if anyone commented, but your streaming problem was probably your home internet service. I streamed both games at home on different PC's and had no issues with either feed. I do have the premium internet service from Telus and it has better than average bandwidth capacity.

So, your issue is probably the bandwidth from your provider.

ALOT of people were getting buffervision. The feed got better in the third period, when I suspect most gave up. Also, I bet a ton of people were running two feeds and blasted out the Oilers servers.

I have the Telus "premium" service too. But I'm in an apartment which gets clean feeds split amongst the building units, and I bet most of the people in my place were streaming (or at least trying to) the games.

The quality of your feed depends on how far the signal has to travel from the Telus junction box. If you're close and on a dedicated line (in a house), your feed is awesome. Given the amount of traffic the game(s) probably got, the chances of getting a decent stream weren't very good.

This was the result of a bad call by the OIlers web production team not anticipating the bandwidth demand as a result of streaming two games simultaneously.

Avatar
#254 David S
September 21 2011, 11:29PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

And apparently using cell phone web cams to broadcast the games. Jeez man. The quality is better on illegal game feeds.

Avatar
#255 Oilers Craig
September 21 2011, 11:34PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

I could stream the Chicago game better then the Wild game...not sure how to explain that but streaming games on the web and watching on the laptop sucks.

Avatar
#256 Wax Man Riley
September 22 2011, 01:18AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

I like Swedish women in bikinis.

Avatar
#257 Wax Man Riley
September 22 2011, 01:31AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers

Weren't we talking about Gagner? All the talk of trading Gagner is funny. For what would we trade him? A second line centre that pops 40-50 pts?

Replace him with Lander that has never played an NHL game, or RNH, who has also....never played an NHL game. Trading Gagner and trying to play 2 rookies is recipe for another 30th place finish and perpetual rebuild.

Gagner is an NHL player and will play for another 10 years..... possibly 15. Gagner as a #1, maybe not, but until our #1 is ready to be a #1, going with 3-#2's is the best option with the assets we have. You won't trade Gagner for a better centre.

And he is 22 and a RFA going into his 5th year. Datsyuk didn't play his first game until he was 23 and didn't score 50 points until he was 25

Avatar
#258 ed in mada
September 22 2011, 03:57AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

The fact that he can perform the most important and valuable function of a hockey game at a level that only a 100 or so others can do.

The fact that people are typically strong and faster at 25 then at 21 also helps.

Yes they ussually are more developed at 25 than 21. Also usually more developed at 21 than 18, and that's the concern I have with Gagner. His game is so similar now as when he was 18 I wonder if there is any reason to expect more devlopment.

Avatar
#259 SurfacetoAirMissile
September 22 2011, 06:25AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

I love our "new shiny toy" in RNH. If he sticks and does not go back to Junior then instead of all the trade Gagner talk, I would rather hear send Horcoff to the minors talk!!!!

I get it, he is the captain and is not going anywhere because of his gigantor contract. We have a new cheaper version of Horc in Belanger. I will be praying for the hockey gods to smite Horc with yet another injury but it must occur before RNH's 9 games is up so we can keep him with the Oilers this year.

As far as Lander goes..... I think in the future we will see a lot of "MPS goal, assists Omark and Lander" when reading the boxscores.

Khabby...... yikes! Barker...... exactly what this team needs more of (players who need to play for another contract)

Avatar
#260 Clyde Frog
September 22 2011, 06:57AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers
ed in mada wrote:

Yes they ussually are more developed at 25 than 21. Also usually more developed at 21 than 18, and that's the concern I have with Gagner. His game is so similar now as when he was 18 I wonder if there is any reason to expect more devlopment.

You understand in relation to the rest of the league Gagner has improved EVERY SINGLE year he has been in the league.

Why is it best to benchmark his progress against the league?

Simple; as systems, players and coaching styles change the production of the entire league alters and fan expectations should too. I'm not saying there has been a massive change recently, but there has been enough to make Gagner's treading water become a positive relative to other forwards in the league.

Go look at the numbers, you might be suprised. Or you can run our one productive centre out of town based on 2 pre-season showings of our rookies...

If you still don't believe me, would you dress a guy who could score 50 goals in the 80's or 40 in the late 90's? (assuming ages would not be relevant)

Avatar
#261 cableguy - 2nd Tier Fan
September 22 2011, 08:11AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Clyde Frog wrote:

You are kidding right? No one HAS to score on a 30th place team, the other team doesn't spot us points and let the coach decide who gets them...

Trade away your top point producers for giant plugs, that's the way all the other top cobtenders do it, right?

What a joke...

Gagner haters do understand where his production puts him with in the league last year?

He already is producing like a 2nd line centre at 21... You can cry about size, speed, etc... But not production. You can drool over everyone elses giant 2nd line centres that produce at the same clip, but there aren't as many as people seem to believe are out there.

i said "one could suggest" not "i think"

so, yes, i was being overly dickish by saying someone could say something rather stupid and believe it to be true.

personally, since you seem to care, i keep gagner. there are a few pieces i move before gagner gets shipped out of town

Avatar
#262 cableguy - 2nd Tier Fan
September 22 2011, 08:12AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

@ cableguy. If you've got to go back 4 years to find a miss on my track record, I'm pretty confident in my evaluation skills.

i still love you. even if i have to share your heart with bobby nilsson

Avatar
#263 gord962
September 22 2011, 08:59AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

I have yet seen anyone answer my question. If RNH sticks, where does Gagner play?

RNH will play 2nd line (if he doesn't then they may as well send him back to Red Deer), Horc will be first line and Belanger is slated for the 3rd line. Gagner can't (and shouldn't) play 4th line - he is better (offensively) than a 4th liner, but can't play physical which would be required in that role. I am not saying trade him for picks. Package Gagner, a prospect and a pick for a solid #2 defenseman since the blue line is our biggest weakness. If we push him down the depth chart he loses value and we will eventually be left holding nothing.

Avatar
#264 FastOil
September 22 2011, 09:00AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

While there may be "better" options than Gagner theoretically, as the calm ones have said (I'm trying to be), nothing can happen until and unless there is that other option, meaning a current player steps up, or there is someone playing in the league that is acquired.

Gagner is producing points, even if he's still a bit on the bottom slope of the hill. He will very likely be an even +/- (or better yet Corsi) player at the least, and likely pretty soon.

Ya, I still want a better skating 2nd C that can put up those points.

Avatar
#265 Archaeologuy
September 22 2011, 09:20AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers

@gord962

My question would be "where does Horcoff or Belanger play?"

Horcoff's numbers have been declining steadily for years and he's limping around again already. He cant be a top 2 centre for that much longer barring a bounceback. It makes much more sense to play him as a 2C with limited PP minutes. That leaves Belanger at 3C, which is what he was signed for, but if you have RNH playing with top 9 players and you recognize that Gagner on the 4th is wasting any potential he may have, then that leaves Horc and Belanger drawing straws for who has to play with Eager and Jones.

So do you put your Captain on the 4th line or the shiny new FA you just signed? My bet is that Belanger draws the short stick and plays 4th line duty with special assignments in the defensive zone when it's the RNH line's turn AND heavy PK minutes.

Avatar
#266 ed in mada
September 22 2011, 09:23AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Clyde Frog wrote:

You understand in relation to the rest of the league Gagner has improved EVERY SINGLE year he has been in the league.

Why is it best to benchmark his progress against the league?

Simple; as systems, players and coaching styles change the production of the entire league alters and fan expectations should too. I'm not saying there has been a massive change recently, but there has been enough to make Gagner's treading water become a positive relative to other forwards in the league.

Go look at the numbers, you might be suprised. Or you can run our one productive centre out of town based on 2 pre-season showings of our rookies...

If you still don't believe me, would you dress a guy who could score 50 goals in the 80's or 40 in the late 90's? (assuming ages would not be relevant)

I see SG has gone from 172 to 159 to 154 in league scoring in his 3 years, so yes you could say there is some improvement. Last year only 68 games as well. Perhaps some reason for hope, but not exactly a compelling arguement.

BTW I did not advocate trading him at this time, just expresisng concern that about his development or perhspa lack thereof.

Avatar
#267 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
September 22 2011, 09:30AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Archaeologuy wrote:

My question would be "where does Horcoff or Belanger play?"

Horcoff's numbers have been declining steadily for years and he's limping around again already. He cant be a top 2 centre for that much longer barring a bounceback. It makes much more sense to play him as a 2C with limited PP minutes. That leaves Belanger at 3C, which is what he was signed for, but if you have RNH playing with top 9 players and you recognize that Gagner on the 4th is wasting any potential he may have, then that leaves Horc and Belanger drawing straws for who has to play with Eager and Jones.

So do you put your Captain on the 4th line or the shiny new FA you just signed? My bet is that Belanger draws the short stick and plays 4th line duty with special assignments in the defensive zone when it's the RNH line's turn AND heavy PK minutes.

Horc and Belanger will probably be ran like Stoll/Reasoner were a few years back. giving Gagner/RNH the gravy minutes.

Avatar
#268 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
September 22 2011, 09:39AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers
ed in mada wrote:

I see SG has gone from 172 to 159 to 154 in league scoring in his 3 years, so yes you could say there is some improvement. Last year only 68 games as well. Perhaps some reason for hope, but not exactly a compelling arguement.

BTW I did not advocate trading him at this time, just expresisng concern that about his development or perhspa lack thereof.

And 154th would put him right in the middle of the pack of 2nd line production.

A couple more years with similar moves up the scoring chart and he'll be a high end 2nd liner.

Avatar
#269 gag me
September 22 2011, 09:43AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Clyde,

No one is questioning the fact that gagner can put up points. People are questioning his abilities as a centerman.

Before you keep trying to comvince people of what we know you should try reading the posts. People are saying he has ZERO back check abilites, he cannot win draws, he falls down when someone touches him, he has no puck control skills, and he is not a strong skater.

I love that he had 42 pts and was -17 last year. I'm sure 29 other teams would jump knowing his skill set to have him as a 1st or 2nd line center. His game has NOT developed. I look at his stats... He is playing more minutes on a first line with tons of PP time. Any fool can suggest that that would coreelate to more pts.

No one is saying run him out of. Town or put Lander in his stead. Again, read the comments before you waste our time with your non-sense.

Avatar
#270 Archaeologuy
September 22 2011, 09:46AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F wrote:

Horc and Belanger will probably be ran like Stoll/Reasoner were a few years back. giving Gagner/RNH the gravy minutes.

That's the way I see it too.

Avatar
#271 gord962
September 22 2011, 09:48AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Archaeologuy wrote:

My question would be "where does Horcoff or Belanger play?"

Horcoff's numbers have been declining steadily for years and he's limping around again already. He cant be a top 2 centre for that much longer barring a bounceback. It makes much more sense to play him as a 2C with limited PP minutes. That leaves Belanger at 3C, which is what he was signed for, but if you have RNH playing with top 9 players and you recognize that Gagner on the 4th is wasting any potential he may have, then that leaves Horc and Belanger drawing straws for who has to play with Eager and Jones.

So do you put your Captain on the 4th line or the shiny new FA you just signed? My bet is that Belanger draws the short stick and plays 4th line duty with special assignments in the defensive zone when it's the RNH line's turn AND heavy PK minutes.

I can't see Tambo going out to sign Belanger only to bury him on the 4th line. Seems like a pointless aquisition.

In other news. we desperately need a d-man.

Tie these two together and the fact we have 10 top 9 forwards a trade will need to occur. If it is not Gagner then it will be one of the other top 9 forwards. If we are going to address the need for a d-man we need to move value to get value. No more trading for prospects, draft picks, purple pills or magic beans. Lets move a package of a top 9 roster player, a decent prospect and a draft pick and get 1 really good defenseman back, sort of like when we got Pronger - too bad we also got his wife. :( On the open market, who can generate the most value? I suspect RNH and Hall would be left out of the coversation.

That leaves: Smytty - has no value based on what little we had to give up to get him; Horc - less value than Smyth with his contract value and term; Hemsky - probably the most value due to his ability to produce consistantly but high risk due to injury history, UFA at the end of this year; Gagner - high draft pedigree, 22 yrs old, low price contract with short term; Eberle - entry level contract and high potential and not sure Tambo would move him?; MPS - same as Eberle - team marketing has been around Hall/Eberle/MPS/RNH - seems they are the nucleus going forward, unlikely to be traded; Omark - 24 but unproven so not much market value at this point; Belanger - just aquired as a FA - if someone really wanted him they could have signed him on July 1.

Who moves? I would be willing to bet it is Gagner or Hemsky.

Avatar
#272 Archaeologuy
September 22 2011, 09:57AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

@gord962

I know I said it before, but it doesnt make any sense to me for the Oilers to trade Gagner when it seems almost inevitable that Hemsky is on his way out too.

Avatar
#273 Quicksilver ballet
September 22 2011, 10:09AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

@Archaeologuy

It makes sense if you're looking at the really big picture.

Hemsky could very well walk at years end and the Oilers get nothing in return if he spends some of this season on the IR. Gagner may be the only powder blue chipper available to be moved.

Avatar
#274 Archaeologuy
September 22 2011, 10:17AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers
Quicksilver ballet wrote:

It makes sense if you're looking at the really big picture.

Hemsky could very well walk at years end and the Oilers get nothing in return if he spends some of this season on the IR. Gagner may be the only powder blue chipper available to be moved.

How so?

Really big picture we have RNH, Gagner, and lander to rely on down the middle for the long term.

If we're talking fantasy then of course I wouldnt mind trading Gagner for Weber. That big picture is pretty great. It's also fictitious.

Hemsky could be gone by Christmas, Horc is held together with Twine and rubber bands, Belanger is a solid player but is also on the wrong side of 30, and Smyth is no spring chicken.

You want to talk about putting all your eggs in one basket, try pinning the hopes and dreams of Oiler fans on 2 kids who havent played 1 minute of regular season hockey.

EDIT: I see your point, but I still think it's pretty risky to bet the farm on 2 kids and some old guys.

Avatar
#275 dawgbone
September 22 2011, 10:19AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers

I missed Smyth.

A lot.

That being said, I wish he'd drop the slap shot while skating down the boards from his aresnal.

It worked once on Andy Moog 14 years ago, give it up.

Avatar
#276 gag me
September 22 2011, 10:35AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Gawgbone,

Yes I remember watching that slapper against Chicago and jumping right into my story of the 97 playoff smyth goal.

He usually drives it low and far post with anticipation of a rebound but it really looked like he was trying a gretzky shelf shot. Only gretzky could smash a top shelfer from that position over and over and over again. In fact, I think 500 of his goals where left wing slappers haha

I am SO excited to start wearing the old 94 McFarlane jersey again!

While this season may not be what we all are hoping for, it should be one that sticks in our minds. Ryan is back in Orange and Blue!!!

Avatar
#277 gord962
September 22 2011, 10:56AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Archaeologuy wrote:

I know I said it before, but it doesnt make any sense to me for the Oilers to trade Gagner when it seems almost inevitable that Hemsky is on his way out too.

Then deal Hemmer and convert Gagner to the wing. He is a poor centre but perhaps we can mask his weaknesses on the right side. He also doesn't have the skill set, physicality or speed of Hemsky so we can't expect him to play any higher than 2nd line. Does that make Ebs the #1RW? Can he handle it? If last year is any indication I would say yes so that just might work.

Regardless, let's get a defenseman in who can handle some tough minutes, play physical, make an outlet pass and contribute offensively. Yes, these guys don't come cheap hence why we have to give up a proven performer + picks and/or prospects.

Avatar
#278 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
September 22 2011, 11:10AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Quicksilver ballet wrote:

It makes sense if you're looking at the really big picture.

Hemsky could very well walk at years end and the Oilers get nothing in return if he spends some of this season on the IR. Gagner may be the only powder blue chipper available to be moved.

So doesn't that reason that we should be trading Hemsky and slot Gagner over in his spot?

Avatar
#279 David S
September 22 2011, 11:20AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
ed in mada wrote:

Yes they ussually are more developed at 25 than 21. Also usually more developed at 21 than 18, and that's the concern I have with Gagner. His game is so similar now as when he was 18 I wonder if there is any reason to expect more devlopment.

Only if you're concentrating on point totals. It's been documented here and elsewhere that his underlying numbers are vastly improved. And need I mention the last couple of years we were in the tank?

Avatar
#280 freeze
September 22 2011, 11:26AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
3
cheers

Via @GenePrincipe "Tom Renney saying he sees nothing but big things to come for Sam Gagner. Even saying his work ethic and talent remind him of Doug Gilmour"

Further: "(Gagner) is too good, too smart to not perform better than he has been." - Coach Renney on number 89, whom he compares to Doug Gilmour

I figured you would all like that quote. :p

Avatar
#281 David S
September 22 2011, 11:35AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Given the importance ~some~ people here are placing on pre-season games, there's going to be alot of keyboard pounding tomorrow if Gagner lights it up tonight.

Avatar
#282 Archaeologuy
September 22 2011, 11:36AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

@freeze

Sweet sweet redemption.

Though, to acknowledge the anti-gagnites, even Renney wants to see more from Gagner, but he obviously sees the talent.

Avatar
#283 mayorpoop
September 22 2011, 11:43AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Archaeologuy wrote:

Sweet sweet redemption.

Though, to acknowledge the anti-gagnites, even Renney wants to see more from Gagner, but he obviously sees the talent.

i'm certain renney also said they were gonna make the play-offs last year and khabby was the #1 goalie.

what's he gonna say "hey was reading the posts on oilers nation and couldn't agree more the asessments of some of the gagner hater's out there"?

i'm gonna take my grain of salt and remember it dearly.

Avatar
#284 TigerUnderGlass
September 22 2011, 11:45AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers
gag me wrote:

Clyde,

No one is questioning the fact that gagner can put up points. People are questioning his abilities as a centerman.

Before you keep trying to comvince people of what we know you should try reading the posts. People are saying he has ZERO back check abilites, he cannot win draws, he falls down when someone touches him, he has no puck control skills, and he is not a strong skater.

I love that he had 42 pts and was -17 last year. I'm sure 29 other teams would jump knowing his skill set to have him as a 1st or 2nd line center. His game has NOT developed. I look at his stats... He is playing more minutes on a first line with tons of PP time. Any fool can suggest that that would coreelate to more pts.

No one is saying run him out of. Town or put Lander in his stead. Again, read the comments before you waste our time with your non-sense.

First line minutes?

MPS-Gagner-Omark was the second most used combination on the team last year, only trailing the Hall-Horcoff-Eberle line. I had no idea that was the first line.

You are really going to give him a hard time for his +/- given that he was babysitting 2 rookies? His +/- was actually really good until he started having to watch over guys like Omark, MPS, and Jones (who btw was his next most common linemate/boat anchor)

He also played a grand total of 23 minutes more on the PP this season than last. I can see how "any fool's" expectations would soar with so much more opportunity.

Ryan Jones falls down far more often, yet I bet you LOVE him. He tries real hard right? Who cares if he drags anyone on the ice with him down with every shift.

Zero back checking skills is wrong given the pile soft evidence that his all around game has improved tremendously. Isn't it ironic how people claim he isn't improving point to his production as evidence but when faced with evidence that his defense is getting better they don't want to hear it?

He is an average skater - why is it when people decide they don't like a player anything not a major strength gets interpreted as weakness?

No puck control skills? Any rational points you may have made just became irrelevant with this bit of nonsense.

Avatar
#285 TigerUnderGlass
September 22 2011, 11:47AM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
2
cheers
Archaeologuy wrote:

Sweet sweet redemption.

Though, to acknowledge the anti-gagnites, even Renney wants to see more from Gagner, but he obviously sees the talent.

Please, I bet Renney doesn't even watch the games.

Edit: Sarcasm squigglies removed. I cannot bring myself to use them. If you cannot recognize the sarcasm then you have never read any of my posts.

Avatar
#286 Quicksilver ballet
September 22 2011, 12:13PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Archaeologuy wrote:

How so?

Really big picture we have RNH, Gagner, and lander to rely on down the middle for the long term.

If we're talking fantasy then of course I wouldnt mind trading Gagner for Weber. That big picture is pretty great. It's also fictitious.

Hemsky could be gone by Christmas, Horc is held together with Twine and rubber bands, Belanger is a solid player but is also on the wrong side of 30, and Smyth is no spring chicken.

You want to talk about putting all your eggs in one basket, try pinning the hopes and dreams of Oiler fans on 2 kids who havent played 1 minute of regular season hockey.

EDIT: I see your point, but I still think it's pretty risky to bet the farm on 2 kids and some old guys.

It's difficult to see it now when the goal and hopes are pinned on this coming season. Longer term (2-3 yrs down the road)i don't think we'll see the likes of Hemsky,Gagner,Whitney and Horcoff in the picture here. Why wait on these guys, make their minds up for them. Send them packing in an effort to add to that group of 4,14,91,93 and 94. Bring the kids in now so the have a chance to see if there's a good fit with this group going forward. I can promise you things won't get any worse than they are already.

Draft for quality and trade/free agency signings for deficiencies. When Steve can go out July 1st and sign 5 guys, it can't be too difficult to fill the odd hole in the lineup.

Avatar
#287 gag me
September 22 2011, 12:14PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

I thought Brownlee would have blocked GlassTiger several posts ago. Not only is he the most annoying commentor but he just loves to try to start fights and back up "his opinions" with stats that he loves to make up.

I don't even read you garbage anymore.

thanks GOD you are no where near a hockey role.

Thanks for "your opinion" on who actually played more. Just so you know though... Gagner play with hemmer and penner more than mps and omark.

Who is this guys? Lol

Avatar
#288 David S
September 22 2011, 12:18PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
2
cheers

@Quicksilver ballet

INFINIBUILD™!

Avatar
#289 RexLibris
September 22 2011, 12:39PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
2
cheers

Come on! Let's get this baby to 300!

Personally I don't understand the Gagner-hate going on.

Is he just destined to be the next Poti, or Brewer, or (insert Oil-fan whipping boy here)?

He was rushed into the league too soon and has had to play on one of the worst teams in the league for the last four years. I am a die-hard (yippee-kay-yay) Oilers fan so it sucks to say that. He was also mismanaged by a group that seemed to think they were somehow getting closer to '05-'06 rather than further away.

The guy is the second-leading point scorer in his draft year and has the second-most games played. He is durable, effective, and young. He's younger than Omark yet people are expecting him to be a top-end centre. As forward positions go, centre is probably the toughest to learn, and to that end what good does it serve the team to trade away a young centre who is consistent and healthy in order to promote another prospect and risk repeating the same mistakes with him? Lander looks good, and I want him on my team. Next year. RNH looks good, and I expect he'll play this year, but I know that if I have to choose between he and Gagner to take a draw against Kesler or Richards I'd pick Gagner (I realize Horcoff and Belanger are the right answers, but you don't always get that matchup).

In the next three years Gagner, Horcoff and Belanger will be moved (No, Horcoff isn't untradeable, if Campbell can be traded to Florida there's a home somewhere for Horcoff). And the replacements for those players will be Lander, Pitlick, and perhaps Martindale. But isn't it better to let those young players learn things at their own pace and give them the space and time to be successful?

Now come on, let's get this thread to 300 and gloat about it to those Canuckleheads.

Avatar
#290 David S
September 22 2011, 12:46PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Sam Gagner's mom is not impressed.

Avatar
#291 TigerUnderGlass
September 22 2011, 12:53PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
2
cheers
gag me wrote:

I thought Brownlee would have blocked GlassTiger several posts ago. Not only is he the most annoying commentor but he just loves to try to start fights and back up "his opinions" with stats that he loves to make up.

I don't even read you garbage anymore.

thanks GOD you are no where near a hockey role.

Thanks for "your opinion" on who actually played more. Just so you know though... Gagner play with hemmer and penner more than mps and omark.

Who is this guys? Lol

Thanks for "your opinion" on who actually played more. Just so you know though... Gagner play with hemmer and penner more than mps and omark.

False. There are several websites that track this data specifically. Try looking something up for once.

I'm trying to discuss hockey and you write a 10 line comment about why you don't like me and I'm the problem?

You are free to find me annoying all you want, but I'm not sure how I will survive without the personal endorsement of "Gag me" but life will have to go on. However "I don't like you" hardly strengthens your position. Why don't you address the points made instead?

For the record - I'm pretty sure I've been around here a lot longer than you have. People that have been around here equally long know that I like to debate hockey. It's fun for me. They also know that debating hockey shouldn't be taken personally and that I don't mean anything personal - it's just lively sports talk.

If you are going to take a post disagreeing with you so personally that you are going to respond just to tell me you don't like me than maybe you do not have the temperament for a hockey comment board and maybe you are the one who will eventually end up banned.

I've never even been close, but you are treading the line closely with responses like that.

Now if you would like to respond about hockey I'll be glad to oblige and continue the conversation. If not then you may as well stop because this is the only time I will respond to irrelevant spite.

Avatar
#292 Quicksilver ballet
September 22 2011, 12:56PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
David S wrote:

INFINIBUILD™!

We're not going anywhere till Taylor Hall takes charge of this hockey team anyways. We wasted an opportunity to add more than just Hopkins last summer. Inactivity on this Hemsky/Gagner front could blow another opportunity next summer if they continue sitting on our hands as well. This lazayfair pace Tambellini is on will certainly conform to your patented Infinibuild model.

Screw trying to emulate what Pittsburgh and Chicago have done, the Oilers should be blazing their own trail.

Selling the farm for 6 lottery picks in a four yr span should've been the game plan from day one.

Avatar
#293 TigerUnderGlass
September 22 2011, 01:04PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Quicksilver ballet wrote:

We're not going anywhere till Taylor Hall takes charge of this hockey team anyways. We wasted an opportunity to add more than just Hopkins last summer. Inactivity on this Hemsky/Gagner front could blow another opportunity next summer if they continue sitting on our hands as well. This lazayfair pace Tambellini is on will certainly conform to your patented Infinibuild model.

Screw trying to emulate what Pittsburgh and Chicago have done, the Oilers should be blazing their own trail.

Selling the farm for 6 lottery picks in a four yr span should've been the game plan from day one.

If only there was a farm to sell.

Avatar
#294 Clyde Frog
September 22 2011, 01:21PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers
gag me wrote:

Clyde,

No one is questioning the fact that gagner can put up points. People are questioning his abilities as a centerman.

Before you keep trying to comvince people of what we know you should try reading the posts. People are saying he has ZERO back check abilites, he cannot win draws, he falls down when someone touches him, he has no puck control skills, and he is not a strong skater.

I love that he had 42 pts and was -17 last year. I'm sure 29 other teams would jump knowing his skill set to have him as a 1st or 2nd line center. His game has NOT developed. I look at his stats... He is playing more minutes on a first line with tons of PP time. Any fool can suggest that that would coreelate to more pts.

No one is saying run him out of. Town or put Lander in his stead. Again, read the comments before you waste our time with your non-sense.

Oh the many, many issues with these statements....

Do you even watch hockey? Or do you just sit at the water cooler and bitch about whomever you heard mentioned on the radio last night?

You understand all your claims could have been giggled at as false simply by looking at any of the stat websites, right?

Can you explain how a kid who; can't skate, falls down when someone touches him, has no puck control skills, can't backcheck. Managed to put up points last season?

Did he just skate off the bench and have pucks rebound off him into empty nets at the end of the game?

Gagner is producing smack dab in the middle of where 2nd line centres should. He has improved his ranking each and every year compared to his peers as a centre.

Stating that 2nd line centres should be measured by factors outside of production is disingenuos. That is how they get their job and keep it. Yes having intangibles would be super cool and all, but if he only manages 25-35 points while killing penalties, winning every draw and more! Do you know what they would call him then? A 3rd line centre...

Can you even define what a 2nd line centre should be measured for? Or what their role is?

No-one is claiming he is the second coming of Wayne Gretzky, his defenders for the most part simply believe that his production is in line with his position, he is 22 and has a LONG career ahead of him. Centres that can actually produce as 2nd liners DON'T grow on trees and when you have someone performing to their role expectations you don't just trade them for magic beans and kudos.

Avatar
#295 TigerUnderGlass
September 22 2011, 01:26PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers
Clyde Frog wrote:

Oh the many, many issues with these statements....

Do you even watch hockey? Or do you just sit at the water cooler and bitch about whomever you heard mentioned on the radio last night?

You understand all your claims could have been giggled at as false simply by looking at any of the stat websites, right?

Can you explain how a kid who; can't skate, falls down when someone touches him, has no puck control skills, can't backcheck. Managed to put up points last season?

Did he just skate off the bench and have pucks rebound off him into empty nets at the end of the game?

Gagner is producing smack dab in the middle of where 2nd line centres should. He has improved his ranking each and every year compared to his peers as a centre.

Stating that 2nd line centres should be measured by factors outside of production is disingenuos. That is how they get their job and keep it. Yes having intangibles would be super cool and all, but if he only manages 25-35 points while killing penalties, winning every draw and more! Do you know what they would call him then? A 3rd line centre...

Can you even define what a 2nd line centre should be measured for? Or what their role is?

No-one is claiming he is the second coming of Wayne Gretzky, his defenders for the most part simply believe that his production is in line with his position, he is 22 and has a LONG career ahead of him. Centres that can actually produce as 2nd liners DON'T grow on trees and when you have someone performing to their role expectations you don't just trade them for magic beans and kudos.

Careful - I was told I should be banned and that I made up easily discoverable stats for disagreeing less vehemently than this.

Avatar
#296 Clyde Frog
September 22 2011, 01:31PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

@TigerUnderGlass

;)

I guess its simpler than reading all those columns of numbers and figuring out what they mean.

Avatar
#297 David S
September 22 2011, 02:07PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
1
cheers

Wait! We can trade for kudos?

Avatar
#298 FastOil
September 22 2011, 02:36PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

Gagner says he learned how to skate this summer at an NHL level. Now he said something similar last summer, but if it's true this could be huge.

I see a lot of his problems coming from poor skating technique - pursuit, losing puck battles, likely even face offs.

Let's hope it's true and a non issue going forward.

Avatar
#299 TigerUnderGlass
September 22 2011, 02:53PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

@FastOil

Gagner says he learned how to skate this summer at an NHL level

Gagner was already an average NHL skater. This is what I'm talking about.

The fact that he was not an elite skater does not mean he did not skate at an NHL level.

That being said any improvement is welcome.

Avatar
#300 Wax Man Riley
September 22 2011, 04:21PM
Trash it!
0
trashes
Cheers
0
cheers

300 comments??!?!?!?

This is Madness!

Madness?

Comments are closed for this article.