FATHER KNOWS BEST

Jason Gregor
January 10 2012 01:54PM

Dave Gagner played 946 NHL games scoring 318 goals and 719 points over 14 seasons. He scored 40 goals twice, 30 goals four times and 20 in three other seasons. He was even more productive in the playoffs tallying 22 goals and 48 points in 57 games. He was a solid NHLer, but the road to success wasn't easy or quick.

His first four seasons as a pro were split between the AHL, NHL and IHL. From 1985 to 1988 he played 14 games in the IHL, 110 in the AHL and 131 in the NHL. It wasn't until his 5th pro season that he became a regular NHLer, when he exploded for 35 goals and 78 points in 75 games with the Minnesota North Stars.

He'd never scored more than 19 points in any previous NHL stint, and even if you prorated his best season where he played at least 20 games his best totals would have been 27. In his first four years he struggled to just be a regular NHLer and then suddenly he was a point-a-game player for the next four seasons.

He didn't suddenly get stronger or faster, although he did work on those areas, but mostly he became more consistent and confident.

Yesterday I sat down with Dave's son Sam. The younger Gagner is playing some of the best hockey of his career with 18 points in his last 21 games. Gagner has had hot stretches like this before though, including 33 points in his final 34 games as a rookie in 2008. From January 18th to April 3rd he was solid; in fact he had 33 points in 31 games before going pointless in the final three that year.

In the final 20 games of 2009 Gagner tallied 21 points including nine goals.

From Dec 31st, 2009 to March 16th 2010 he scored 20 points in 26 games. His season ended three games later due to an injury.

Last year he never got on a great run, with his most productive stretch coming between Nov 27th and Jan 04th when he put up 14 points in 17 games.

Gagner has proven he can be a productive point producer in the NHL, but thus far he's only been able to do it for 20-30 game stretches and not an entire season. During those hot streaks he's tallied 106 points in 115 games, (0.92ppg) which is great, however, in the other 210 he's only scored 87 (0.41ppg).

Looking at those numbers it is obvious why Gagner is the most polarizing player here in the Nation. When he is on he can be a productive NHLer, and when he isn't, he doesn't do much because he's yet to establish himself as an overly physical player, doesn't kill penalties and isn't just a checker.

FATHERLY ADVICE

Gagner spoke with his father frequently over the years, but like most young men he didn't always adhere to the old man's advice. "I've always been lucky to have a dad, who went through what I'm going through, and we've always talked, but I don't think I always listened," laughed Gagner.

"I would be like, 'yes dad,' but I didn't really take his words to heart. I thought I could figure it (consistency) out myself. I'm not sure what happened, but over the summer his advice really hit home. Now I talk to him every day and I really listen. He's got excellent advice, but he also knows how to challenge and support me."

Sound familiar?

When I was 18-21 I had the luxury of chatting with my father, but usually I'd walk away thinking I knew better. It wasn't until I was a bit older that I realized I should listen more intently to what the "old" guy had to say. I'm sure most of you can relate. As young adults we all think we know more than our parents, but then one day, almost surprisingly, we realize that most of their advice and wisdom makes sense.

Sam Gagner was no different, but this season the regular talks with his father have impacted him more and his main focus was to be consistent for an extended period of time.

"I've had different clips like this over my career where I've been good for 20 or so games, but for me it's a matter of being consistent for the rest of the year. I had a tough start, coming off the injury, but there was still lots of hockey left and that's what I've been focusing on for the past six weeks and I'll do the same for the 2nd half. I wanted to find my game and be sure that I was ready every night to play, and I feel that recently that's been the case. It's been a tough go the past month, but I want to help the group find ways to win, and the best way to do that is be consistent," said Gagner.

Did you make it a goal of yours to be consistent for the final 60 games, rather than just a hot 20 games here and there?

"Definitely. You want to be looked at by your teammates and your coaching staff as a guy who you know what you're getting from every night. I felt like in the past it is something that is hard to do over an 80 game schedule, and it's something that I struggled with. If I can find that consistency it will go a long ways towards helping the team and helping me contribute to wins. I want to continue to get better every night at that (consistency) and making sure I'm good on both sides of the puck and the last little while it has been that way and hopefully I keep it that way."

Most players, whether they are rookies, sophomores or five or ten year veterans, struggle with consistency. Usually it is only the elite of the elite who figure out how to bring their best game most nights. Gagner feels that today he is much closer to realizing what it takes more than ever.

"I've obviously been through a lot in terms of ups and downs, and I've done a lot of growing mentally as a person and as a player. I feel like I'm definitely more well-equipped to handle an 80-game schedule and the consistency that comes with that now. It is tough, especially with the ups and downs of our team. It wears on you, and you want to help the team win every night, but it doesn't always happen and the results don't always come. It is a matter of staying mentally even-keeled. I think I'm getting better at that, and hopefully I can continue to grow in that area."

Outside of working on his mental game and absorbing his father's advice, Gagner worked tirelessly on improving his skating this summer. He looked faster in camp, but then he injured his ankle in the preseason. It took him close to 15 games to get back up to speed. He looks faster, and I wondered if he has noticed an improvement in his skating now that he is healthy.

"My skating definitely does feel better. With the ankle it was tough. I still tape it, but not as tightly. Earlier in the year it was like a brick down there, because I was taping it so tight to ensure I didn't injure it, but it seemed like I was tweaking it every game. Now I'm skating much better and I feel way better out there. I'm mentally stronger than I have been in my previous four years, and that allowed me not to get to down when I wasn't scoring. I battled through it and that showed me that I just need to stick to my game and the results will come. Skating has helped, but I think my mental game is helping me even more."

Fatherly advice is a wonderful thing that most of us take for granted or disregard, until we finally decide we should pay attention. It was apparent in our conversation that Gagner really looks forward to his almost-daily talks with his dad now, and he is determined to become a consistent NHLer, rather than a guy who can get hot for 20-30 games stretches. Gagner is up for the challenge of showing everyone: his teammates, coaches, media, fans and most importantly himself and his father that he can find the same consistency that kept Dave in the NHL for 14 seasons.

If he can do that the Oilers might have two potent duos moving forward.

Gagner with Taylor Hall, and Ryan Nugent-Hopkins with Jordan Eberle.

The puck is in his corner, let's see how he handles it.

Ddf3e2ba09069c465299f3c416e43eae
One of Canada's most versatile sports personalities. Jason hosts The Jason Gregor Show, weekdays from 2 to 6 p.m., on TSN 1260, and he writes a column every Monday in the Edmonton Journal. You can follow him on Twitter at twitter.com/JasonGregor
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#3 Big Perm
January 10 2012, 02:06PM
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Sam has come a long way this season. He's an example of a player we should not only be patient with in the long haul - sometimes players need a few games in a season to get going. Tough league these days to stay healthy for decent stretches.

Also: FIST

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#4 LoDog
January 10 2012, 02:08PM
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Gord and the rest of the haters should be along anytime now to bash the younger Gagner.

If he can find some consistency he will be a fine 2nd line centre. Still so young.

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#5 Muji 狗
January 10 2012, 02:09PM
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I'm cheering for him. Crazy to think that he's only 22.

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#6 Wanyes bastard child
January 10 2012, 05:37PM
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@Jason Gregor

Maybe speaking slower would help?

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#7 Douche Nietzsche
January 10 2012, 02:16PM
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The puck is in his corner, he'll probably skate head first into the boards.

Gagner is a Robin.(Not nations, Batmans) He only gets points from the skill of his teammates, he cant own a line of his own, nor is he a threat on his own.

Lucifer will come back before Gagner becomes a player the media and a few numbskulls envision him to be. But in defense of Gagner, I will probably hear;"give him a few more years."

Gagner is a third line wing at best. How you can he be a part of a potent duo, when he can't win a face-off or a puck battle? What's wrong with you?

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#8 A-Mc
January 10 2012, 02:25PM
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Good luck Gagner: i hope you can pull it off! Lord knows the Oilers need help.

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#9 Archaeologuy
January 10 2012, 02:35PM
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@Douche Nietzsche

Gagner's faceoff numbers are improved. Try to keep up to date.

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#10 OB1 Team Yakopov - F.S.T.N.F
January 10 2012, 05:12PM
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Douche Nietzsche wrote:

What does he bring to your potent duo then? I could ride Halls wagon and put up points, put Belanger with Hall for a few games and he'll get some more too.

If Gagner wasn't riding Hemsky and Halls wagon for the last few weeks, you wouldnt even put this article or arguement up because you would have no bases for it.

Since he started playing hockey Gagner has been a "fortunate son". Is Kane still developing and becoming an NHLer in Chicago or has he done that years ago?

You should check out how fantastic Crosby's wingers production has been since entering the league.

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#11 cableguy - 2nd Tier Fan
January 10 2012, 05:16PM
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Douche Nietzsche wrote:

What does he bring to your potent duo then? I could ride Halls wagon and put up points, put Belanger with Hall for a few games and he'll get some more too.

If Gagner wasn't riding Hemsky and Halls wagon for the last few weeks, you wouldnt even put this article or arguement up because you would have no bases for it.

Since he started playing hockey Gagner has been a "fortunate son". Is Kane still developing and becoming an NHLer in Chicago or has he done that years ago?

of Gagners last 18 points, Hall and Hemsky are only involved points wise on 5 of them.

if my grade 4 maf is up to snuf

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#12 stevezie
January 10 2012, 05:21PM
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Douche Nietzsche wrote:

The puck is in his corner, he'll probably skate head first into the boards.

Gagner is a Robin.(Not nations, Batmans) He only gets points from the skill of his teammates, he cant own a line of his own, nor is he a threat on his own.

Lucifer will come back before Gagner becomes a player the media and a few numbskulls envision him to be. But in defense of Gagner, I will probably hear;"give him a few more years."

Gagner is a third line wing at best. How you can he be a part of a potent duo, when he can't win a face-off or a puck battle? What's wrong with you?

You, sir, need to research Nightwing.

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#13 The Towel Boy
January 10 2012, 02:19PM
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Hey! An article subject that will actually pertain to the arguments in the comments section for once!

Great work, Gregor!

Now, can we all talk about Ales Hemsky?

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#14 RexLibris
January 10 2012, 02:35PM
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I heard a comment one time that sounded just like your point at the top of the article, Jason. It went: "when I was in my twenties I was embarrassed at how ignorant my father was. But by the time I hit my 30s I was amazed at how much my old man had learned in just ten years." I've tried to remember that in my relationship with my dad.

There's an article over at FN about Backlund and his struggles. Same position and draft year as Gagner and he's just beginning to get the negative attention of Flames fans due to his lack of production. Are we too hard on young kids here or is this because we all wanted to believe the hype surround Gagner, Cogliano and Nilsson back in '08?

Consistency comes with time, and anyone who wants to run Gagner out of town because he isn't performing at the level that a 5-year NHL vet ought to had better think about how reliable they were at 22. If you want to argue that he isn't big enough, or fast enough, well this town has seen enough players to know better than to judge on physical appearance alone. I'm not a Gagner lover, he frustrates me at times, but then this whole team does, so why not him too. But I think Gagner is exactly where he needs to be at this stage of this team and his career, a second-line centre (RNH, though injured, is a fixture of this team now. I think we can agree on that) working within a young core. The time will come to move him and he will eventually be replaced by Pitlick, or Martindale, or some other player acquired by draft or trade. But for now, why should anyone gnash their teeth over this player for things he either can't do or tries to do and fails?

Let me put it this way, Gagner may be small and he may not be the fastest skater, but he had shown he can make a good pass, has good hockey sense, and this kid will fight anyone. He doesn't take stupid penalties and he works his butt off, so let's give him some decent linemates and just watch what happens.

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#15 Dipstick
January 10 2012, 02:50PM
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Yet, he seems to be producing points. Unlike many others.

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#16 melancholyculkin
January 10 2012, 03:42PM
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Douche Nietzsche wrote:

I'm a stater not a hater.

Some consistency? How can he be a 2nd line center? He has no skills to attribute to that position.

Other than the whole scoring and assisting goals, no not a single applicable skill.

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#17 bumblebpete
January 10 2012, 03:53PM
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Douche Nietzsche wrote:

I'm a stater not a hater.

Some consistency? How can he be a 2nd line center? He has no skills to attribute to that position.

Your either blind or playing your lucifer's advocate.

Gagner is a keeper and I sure hope they don't trade him.

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#18 a lg dubl dubl
January 10 2012, 04:08PM
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I still don't understand how Gagner is "small" he's 5'11, I'm 5'5 to me he's a giant!

If he can put up the points his dad did over his career that's not to bad imo.

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#19 cableguy - 2nd Tier Fan
January 10 2012, 04:32PM
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FastOil wrote:

Unless ST can find a deal for a productive centre that's bigger we'll have to enjoy "sweet" passes instead of dominant play at 2C. It can work if they provide him the right linemates. I am not sure Hall plays second line however.

I think we need a skilled, mean, shoot first forward for each wing if we run 2 small centres - RW opposite Hall, LW opposite Eberle.

How about Hemsky for Lucic?

hemsky for lucic?

you forget the ~~~~~~~ to indicate sarcasm or were you being serious????

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#20 Woodguy
January 10 2012, 06:45PM
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Really good post Jason.

I remember that it was about at age 22 that I finally figured out my Dad wasn't full of sh!t.

Dad passed away 11 years ago now when I was 29, but if I didn't have him around to ask for advice from when I was 22-29, I know that I wouldn't be where I'm at now.

I wish he was still around to talk to, but I'm really glad that we had 8ish years where he was my go to guy.

I've been looking at the "production curves" of high end NHL players, and it seems that among forwards the best 7 years are 22-29 (peak around 26) and 25-32 among D.

I'm convinced that a lot of the reason forwards seem to take off around 22 as a whole is maturity. (D is a slightly different story as its a very tough position to play at the NHL level and experience is everything)

Regardless of if a players was in the CHL/AHL, or AHL/NHL, or all in the NHL from 18-22, they curve really starts to move up at around 22.

As a 21 year old on a terrible team, Gagner put up 1.91pts/60 in 5 on 5 last year.

That was good for 45th in the NHL.

A guy that every wished they had instead of Gagner is Ryan Kessler. he was 39th with 2.00pts/60 5v5.

One guy has 1/2 the fan base riding him out of town on a rail, the other guy is considered a prototypical center.

Watching young kids (18-22) grow up and learn how to play hockey in the NHL can be like watching sausage being made.

Its best not to witness first hand if you want to enjoy to end result.

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#21 Woodguy
January 10 2012, 07:17PM
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Fred wrote:

Nikolai Kulemin

Martin Hanzal

Brandon Sutter

Sounds beter than Gagner ,Hemsky and Horcoff I'd even throw in Omark.

Kulemin is a winger isn't he? He's listed as one at NHL.com, behindthenet.ca and leftwinglock.com. Isn't Grabovski his usual center?

Hanzal is a awesome. One of my favorite players in the NHL. Would trade Gagner for him in a heartbeat.

Hanzal scored 0.40pts/60 as a 22 year old, but to his defense he was playing the toughest competition. He's very, very good.

I like Sutter, but he's a 3C at best, just doesn't bring the offense you want from a 2C.

He's 22 this year like Gagner, but his 5v5 pts/60 is 1.22 this year (Gagner 1.79 even with his bad start), and last year was 1.39 to Gagner's 1.91.

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#22 David S
January 10 2012, 10:20PM
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Quicksilver ballet wrote:

18 pts in 21 games, and during that time the Oilers went 5 W and 16 L's.

Sarcasm loading, please wait.

Yeah. Imagine what he'd do on a GOOD team.

Sarcasm error 404

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#23 Douche Nietzsche
January 10 2012, 02:21PM
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LoDog wrote:

Gord and the rest of the haters should be along anytime now to bash the younger Gagner.

If he can find some consistency he will be a fine 2nd line centre. Still so young.

I'm a stater not a hater.

Some consistency? How can he be a 2nd line center? He has no skills to attribute to that position.

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#24 Big Perm
January 10 2012, 02:24PM
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Douche Nietzsche wrote:

The puck is in his corner, he'll probably skate head first into the boards.

Gagner is a Robin.(Not nations, Batmans) He only gets points from the skill of his teammates, he cant own a line of his own, nor is he a threat on his own.

Lucifer will come back before Gagner becomes a player the media and a few numbskulls envision him to be. But in defense of Gagner, I will probably hear;"give him a few more years."

Gagner is a third line wing at best. How you can he be a part of a potent duo, when he can't win a face-off or a puck battle? What's wrong with you?

Third line wing would be great for the team. I'm sure we can find forwards (if healthy) to fill the top 6 spots.

We need to add two defense-men and a third line centre if he stays wing - that's where he fits best. Third liners can be potent too.

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#25 Douche Nietzsche
January 10 2012, 02:39PM
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@Archaeologuy

Even a blind squirel will get a nut sometime.

What goes up must come down, stay tuned.;-')

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#26 They're $hittie
January 10 2012, 02:39PM
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whats the over under on comments on this article. 225?

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#27 mayorpoop
January 10 2012, 03:13PM
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good piece.

in watching Oil Change and listening to sound bites with Sam in them i havam detecting a certain maturity in him as a person. i think that him seemingly maturing as a person will parlay into more proficiency on the ice. hope so at least.

granted some would want him traded tomorrow based on feelings and hunches, stat picking (and keep in mind stat picking goes both ways, not just the traders but for the keepers as well) and a myriad of other reasons but i would only do that for the right deal. it is still a business.

i hope he succeeds and maybe that will be here. hope so from what i hear out of him lately.

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#28 Fred
January 10 2012, 03:21PM
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I would trade him , they have RNH, Hall, and Eberle. They need a Ryan Kesler / Messier type player for the future preferably. They need a gritty center 2nd line if available. If not keep him he will produce points.

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#29 Quicksilver ballet
January 10 2012, 03:37PM
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18 pts in 21 games, and during that time the Oilers went 5 W and 16 L's.

Sarcasm loading, please wait.

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#30 Quicksilver ballet
January 10 2012, 03:50PM
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melancholyculkin wrote:

Other than the whole scoring and assisting goals, no not a single applicable skill.

5 goals from the Oilers supposed 2nd line center screams Dustin Penner type of production through the first half of this season. Fans are left wondering...where's the beef (Goals)

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#31 Quicksilver ballet
January 10 2012, 03:51PM
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WHERE'S THE BEEF!

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#32 Fred
January 10 2012, 03:56PM
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Some players like Marcel Dionne scored points but never won anything. Gagner has never shown he will be the guy that can score big goals. You win with players like Eric Staal, Toews, Messier,etc they will never win the scoring race but they will win games.

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#33 Quicksilver ballet
January 10 2012, 03:58PM
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@Archaeologuy

Vegas has the odds of winning this debate/over the fanbase at 1%, with a 1% margin of error Archie.

... up to the moment update.

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#34 dohfOs
January 10 2012, 04:05PM
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Great read Jason. Really. Quality stuff!

Cheering for Gagner, if he only could learn how to take a F/O things would be even better.

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#35 bumblebpete
January 10 2012, 04:06PM
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Fred wrote:

Some players like Marcel Dionne scored points but never won anything. Gagner has never shown he will be the guy that can score big goals. You win with players like Eric Staal, Toews, Messier,etc they will never win the scoring race but they will win games.

Never give up on the "little" guys with heart!!!

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#36 Quicksilver ballet
January 10 2012, 04:15PM
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The only way to recapture your youth...is to cut off their allowance.

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#37 FastOil
January 10 2012, 04:16PM
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Unless ST can find a deal for a productive centre that's bigger we'll have to enjoy "sweet" passes instead of dominant play at 2C. It can work if they provide him the right linemates. I am not sure Hall plays second line however.

I think we need a skilled, mean, shoot first forward for each wing if we run 2 small centres - RW opposite Hall, LW opposite Eberle.

How about Hemsky for Lucic?

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#38 Derek
January 10 2012, 04:24PM
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Martin Hanzal would have been a nice fit for the Oilers.

Gagner for Hanzal easy answer for me.

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#39 Dipstick
January 10 2012, 04:26PM
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OK, I give up. Time to go negative.

~He hasn't been in one bloody fight all season!~

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#40 DK0
January 10 2012, 04:35PM
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@cableguy - 2nd Tier Fan

yeah and this Whitney guy is washed up. how about Whitney for Chara?

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#41 Douche Nietzsche
January 10 2012, 04:50PM
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bumblebpete wrote:

Your either blind or playing your lucifer's advocate.

Gagner is a keeper and I sure hope they don't trade him.

A keeper? He has no center qualities. How is he a goaltender now?

Lucifers sends his regards, he's just a little occupied these days given sight to the blind and hope to the Gagher swollowers.

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#42 FastOil
January 10 2012, 04:52PM
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@cableguy

Being forgetfull, being wishfull.

@DK0

Why didn't I think of that?

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#43 Douche Nietzsche
January 10 2012, 05:01PM
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@Jason Gregor

What does he bring to your potent duo then? I could ride Halls wagon and put up points, put Belanger with Hall for a few games and he'll get some more too.

If Gagner wasn't riding Hemsky and Halls wagon for the last few weeks, you wouldnt even put this article or arguement up because you would have no bases for it.

Since he started playing hockey Gagner has been a "fortunate son". Is Kane still developing and becoming an NHLer in Chicago or has he done that years ago?

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#44 Harlie
January 10 2012, 05:07PM
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Great! And now I am turning all sentimental and don't want him traded now. Same thing for Hemsky. What's going on with ME!!!

I guess I need to watch another demoralizing loss to get back on the hate train..

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#45 mouthbreather
January 10 2012, 05:11PM
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what's the B stand for the card? $1 000 000 000 000 000 000 to the winner.

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#46 AdamfromOilfans
January 10 2012, 05:37PM
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When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years. - Mark Twain

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#47 They're $hittie
January 10 2012, 05:50PM
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Douche Nietzsche wrote:

What does he bring to your potent duo then? I could ride Halls wagon and put up points, put Belanger with Hall for a few games and he'll get some more too.

If Gagner wasn't riding Hemsky and Halls wagon for the last few weeks, you wouldnt even put this article or arguement up because you would have no bases for it.

Since he started playing hockey Gagner has been a "fortunate son". Is Kane still developing and becoming an NHLer in Chicago or has he done that years ago?

How is gagner riding Hemsky. He is drastically out performing him while playing with him.

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#48 Woodguy
January 10 2012, 06:04PM
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Douche Nietzsche wrote:

The puck is in his corner, he'll probably skate head first into the boards.

Gagner is a Robin.(Not nations, Batmans) He only gets points from the skill of his teammates, he cant own a line of his own, nor is he a threat on his own.

Lucifer will come back before Gagner becomes a player the media and a few numbskulls envision him to be. But in defense of Gagner, I will probably hear;"give him a few more years."

Gagner is a third line wing at best. How you can he be a part of a potent duo, when he can't win a face-off or a puck battle? What's wrong with you?

Who are, in your opinion, are the best 2nd line centers in the NHL?

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#49 Joel s
January 10 2012, 06:07PM
Trash it!
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How about a player like Nikolai Kulemin for Hemsky

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#50 Steelymac
January 10 2012, 06:18PM
Trash it!
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props

I woud take Gagner over Horcoff anyday but you won't and can't get squat for Horcoff.I read a few weeks ago that there was trade speculation of Gagner for Franson before injuries came into plat. Any thoughts gang?

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